PDA

View Full Version : PrC: Fallen Paladin



Yakk
2007-01-26, 01:18 PM
"If my acts are not Good in the eyes of God, then God is Evil."

The Fallen Paladin does not recieve her powers via any deal with outer planar forces.

The Fallen Paladin is a Paladin who is so convinced she is right, that she decides her God is the one in error. Instead of humbly recieving her powers from her diety, she rips them from her God.

The Fallen Paladin sees herself as "more good than good" and "more lawful than lawful". The "Laws" of lesser beings do not apply to her, as they are all made by corrupt and weak fools. The "Good" dictated by mortal men and Gods is nothing more than a sham. She decides what is truly "Good", and Laws that stand in her way are to be brushed aside.

Requirements:
At least 5 levels of Ex Paladin.
CE alignment.

HD: d10
BaB: +1 per level
Saves: Good Fort, Poor Reflex/Will.
Skills: As Paladin. (2+int) per level.
Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nobility and royalty) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis)

Special: The Fallen Paladin must choose to perform an Chaotic or Evil act while still a Paladin, and refuse the judgement of her God for her actions. This act gains the benefit of "Sever the Soul" if it involved killing someone.

When a character becomes a Fallen Paladin, all of their Ex Paladin levels are immediatly converted into Fallen Paladin levels.

This is a 20 level prestige class. Use the Paladin's advancement chart unless otherwise noted.

Abilities:
Aura of Evil:
The strength of a Fallen Paladin's aura of evil is equal to her class level.

If a believer in her former diety senses a Fallen Paladin's aura via detect evil spells, the caster is blinded unless he succeeds at a will save (CR of the Fallen Paladin's level plus her Charisma modifier).

Deathblow:
A Fallen Paladin may attempt a Deathblow 1/day, plus 1/day every 5 levels of Fallen Paladin.

A Deathblow gains a bonus to hit equal to the Fallen Paladins's Charisma modifier, and it deals bonus negative energy damage equal to the Fallen Paladin's class level.

If this blow hits but fails to reduce the target below 0 HP, all damage from the blow (including the damage from the normal hit) is cancelled, and the use/day of Deathblow is returned to the Fallen Paladin. This makes using Deathblow a gamble. Note that on a miss, you lose your use/week of Deathblow.

If this blow succeeds in reducing the target below 0 HP, the target immediately becomes dead and his soul is severed. (See Sever the Soul)

Sever the Soul:
The Deathblow of a Fallen Paladin severs the victims very soul.

Attempts to ressurect, clone, or otherwise call or interact with the soul of a victim of a Fallen Paladin is opposed by a spell resistance of (Fallen Paladin Levels+Fallen Paladin Charisma Modifier+10). Failure on this roll means that no Spellcaster of equal or lesser spellcasting level can ever successfully access the soul in question.

Righteous Conviction:
Beginning at 2nd level, a Fallen Paladin gains her charisma bonus to her saves. She is also completely immune to fear effects.

In addition, she gains SR (10+fallen paladin levels+charisma modifier) against divine spells cast by followers of her former diety.

Unstoppable Constitution:
Beginning at 3rd level, the Fallen Paladin no longer takes any penalties or damage for being infected with any desease, including supernatural ones. She continues to be a carrier if the disease is infectious.

Turn Belief:
Beginning at 4th level, the Fallen Paladin gains the supernatural ability to turn or command believers in her former church.

This behaves like Turn Undead by a cleric of level equal to her Fallen Paladin level, except instead of undead it works on any true believers of her former church (including, but not limited to, any Divine spellcaster or Paladin from the church). If the target has fewer hit dice than half the Fallen Paladin's class levels, the believer is instead commanded. A Fallen Paladin may not command more HD of believers than twice her class levels.

This command is a form of magical compulsion, but it does not seem like it to the victim. The Fallen Paladin can release believers from her control at any time. They may or may not continue to be believers at this point.

Special Mount:
The Fallen Paladin's special mount refuses to obey her or be called.

An Evil creature may consent to become the Fallen Paladin's mount. If one does so, it is granted the benefits of a standard Paladin mount (except the summoning abilities), but it cannot disobey any commands given to it by the Fallen Paladin.

If the Fallen Paladin releases her mount or her mount dies, she can convince some other Evil creature to become her mount.

Cause Disease:
At 6th level, the Fallen Paladin can cast Conatgion once per week (as the spell). The CR for the save is 13+Charisma Modifier.

She can use this ability one additional time per week for every 3 levels above 6.

Spells:
As Paladin, except replace GOOD effects with EVIL effects, healing spells with their negative energy damage equivilents, Holy effects with Unholy negative energy equivilents, and LAW effects with CHAOS effects.

Lay on hands:
The ability to heal with a touch is forever lost to the Fallen Paladin.

Power of Hatred:
Whenever the Paladin deals negative energy HP damage, the Paladin heals herself an equal amount. This includes using Inflict Light Wounds or her Deathblow ability.

SmileyX
2007-01-26, 01:48 PM
That sever the soul abilitie seems a tad bit overpowered, instead of making it any cleric of the same level or less, wouldn't it work better if it was that the cleric(or caster) in question can't access the soul again until they achieve a new level?

mikeejimbo
2007-01-26, 02:14 PM
Requirements:
At least 5 levels of Ex Paladin.
CE alignment.


I think I have a problem with the requirement that the Paladin has to be Chaotic Evil. I think that a paladin could be rather Chaotic Neutral, Neutral Evil, or possibly even Lawful Evil and still rather fit. Naturally, Chaotic Evil is the most interesting, but I would say that Miko (If indeed that's why you have the :smallbiggrin: in the title, as I suspect :smallwink:) is not quite Chaotic Evil.

Yet, anyway.



Special: The Fallen Paladin must choose to perform an utterly Chaotic and Evil act while still a Paladin, and refuse the judgement of her God for her actions. This act gains the benefit of "Sever the Soul" if it involved killing someone.


Again, I would say that Miko fits the bill of having performed a Lawful Neutral act by killing Shojo, if indeed execution is the punishment for treason.



Sever the Soul:
The Deathblow of a Fallen Paladin severs the victims very soul.

Attempts to ressurect, clone, speak with dead, or otherwise call the soul of a victim of a Fallen Paladin is opposed by a spell resistance of (Fallen Paladin Levels+Fallen Paladin Charisma Modifier+10). Failure on this roll means that no Cleric of equal or lesser level can ever successfully access the soul in question.


The only problem I have here is with speak with dead. From what I read in the description in the PHB, it doesn't conjure up their soul, it just uses what was imprinted in their minds, because it was there for so long.



Special Mount:
The Fallen Paladin's special mount refuses to obey her.

An Evil creature may consent to become the Fallen Paladin's mount. If one does so, it is granted the benefits of a standard Paladin mount, but must obey all commands given to it by the Fallen Paladin.


I think it would be nice if the special mount had to die first, either by the Paladin or the new creature killing it.

In all, though, I like it.

Roderick_BR
2007-01-26, 03:09 PM
I just took a look about it, but I like the idea. A paladin that loses his power for following his own twisted code of honor? Perfect. Heh... It reminds me of a comic where this paladin, one of the world's greatest hero, becomes the world's greatest villain.
I really like the concept seeing as the paladin becomes sort of a jury/judge/executor, fueled for hiw own desire of justice. Seeing as he becomes obsessed with justice, I think he would work better as Lawful Evil.
He could also gain anti-chaotic creature related powers, to better punish "criminals". But maybe that wouldn't be necessary.
To me, this is like a paladin that crossed the line.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-26, 03:14 PM
I really like the concept seeing as the paladin becomes sort of a jury/judge/executor, fueled for hiw own desire of justice. Seeing as he becomes obsessed with justice, I think he would work better as Lawful Evil.
He could also gain anti-chaotic creature related powers, to better punish "criminals".

Actually, I'm working on a Paladin of Enforcement variant that's almost precisely like that. Judge Jury and Executioner, he is the Law. Except he's Lawful Neutral. Anyway, I'll finish that up and post it in a bit.

Ralasha
2007-01-26, 03:16 PM
But he wouldn't necessarily be evil. just a vigilanty.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-26, 03:54 PM
But he wouldn't necessarily be evil. just a vigilanty.

Well yeah, that's what I'm going for anyway, though less vigilante, more Judge Dredd.

Yakk
2007-01-26, 03:57 PM
Tweaked it in a few areas, fixed some spelling mistakes.

The Fallen Paladin can now only heal herself by dealing negative energy damage. Changed the Deathblow to negative energy damage, and banned Healing spells.

Sever the Soul is a nasty ability. But it does require killing the target before you can use it -- the Paladin has already defeated the target.

I dropped "Utterly" from the act the Paladin must perform to Fall. The important part is refusing the judgement of her Diety and other people, and holding other people to be unimportant. It is arrogance that drives this character class more than anything else.

CE is important -- what is Chaotic is that the Fallen Paladin does not believe that social order and structures are important. All that matters is the will of the Fallen Paladin, and anything that opposes that will is to be destroyed or ignored.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-26, 04:10 PM
All right, I can deal with that then. Looks good.

Roderick_BR
2007-01-26, 05:22 PM
Alright. I guess it works then. I'll check the Enforcement one too.
Now that I'm reading it better, it looks really good. The Turn Belief power is very interesting. Hmm.. The Death Blow power is like the Death domain power? I mean, damage is used only to see if he can lower a character's HP to 0? You could use that, but then it would be too powerful.
Ah, add to the requisite that the ex-paladin must make a chaotic evil action, believing he is doing the right thing. Just killing for selfish reasons is not enough to make him believe he is doing justice.

Ralasha
2007-01-26, 05:51 PM
Chaotic Evil

These characters are the bane of all that is good and organized. Chaotic evil characters are motivated by the desire for personal gain and pleasure. They see absolutley nothing wrong with taking whatever they want by whatever means possible. Laws and governments are the tools of weaklings unable to fend for themselves. The strong have the right to take what they want, and the weak are there to be exploited. When chaotic evil characters band together, they are not motivated by a desire to cooperate, but rather to oppose powerful enemies. Such a group can be held together only by a strong leader capable of bullying his underlings into obedience. Since leadership is based on raw power, a leader is likely to be replaced at the first sign of weakness by anyone who can take his position away from him by any method. Bloodthirsty buccaneers and monsters of low intelligence are fine examples of chaotic evil personalities.

Matthew
2007-01-26, 07:23 PM
I like this idea a lot, but I have to agree with Ralasha that the Alignment may be the wrong one. Not sure, though.

magic8BALL
2007-01-26, 10:29 PM
Fallen Paladin..? Isn't that what the Blackguard PrC from the DMG is all about..?

Mewtarthio
2007-01-26, 10:54 PM
Fallen Paladin..? Isn't that what the Blackguard PrC from the DMG is all about..?

Blackguard's different. A Blackguard is wholly and completely Evil. He acquires his powers from the forces of darkness. He is the very antithesis of the Paladin and works to destroy all a Paladin holds dear. This PrC's just a Paladin who's crossed the line and replaced the will of the gods with his own will.

That being said, this class definately screams "Lawful" to me. In fact, it seems more like this sort of Paladin has prioritized "Lawful" over "Good." This Fallen Paladin still fights for a cause and follows a very particular code, but has abandoned the Paladin order in lieu of his own particular brand of justice.

mikeejimbo
2007-01-26, 10:56 PM
That being said, this class definately screams "Lawful" to me. In fact, it seems more like this sort of Paladin has prioritized "Lawful" over "Good." This Fallen Paladin still fights for a cause and follows a very particular code, but has abandoned the Paladin order in lieu of his own particular brand of justice.

Law over Good is, incidentally, the theme of my Paladin Variant

[/shameless plug]

Not of course, to undermine this PrC, which is very interesting itself. They're sort of like two sides of the same coin, if you ask me.

purple gelatinous cube o' Doom
2007-01-27, 12:56 AM
personally I think some levels in blackguard instead of ex paladin would work better since a blackguard fits the ex paladin theme very well. That, and I suspect many ex paladins tend to become blackguards. That, and I think there is something in the PHB on ex paladins as well. i haven't read the excerpt in a while so I can't tell you what it is off the top of my head.

Edit: One of the criteria for becoming an ex paladin is to cease to be lawful good, but that doesn't mean they have become evil (although commiting an evil act is another way). You can still have a neutral, or even a good ex paladin. That, and there are ways for an ex paladin to regain the right to take levels in paladin again (Ex. an attonement spell). So, to me, if you begin to take levels in an ex paladin class, you're basically saying that I can't ever become a paladin again, or you don't want to. At least that's what I get from it.

Roderick_BR
2007-01-27, 02:43 AM
I think the idea here is a paladin that *thinks* he is right, but become evil. A ex-paladin blackguard got corrupted or something, and knows he is serving dark and evil masters, be them evil deities or fiends.

Yakk
2007-01-27, 02:46 AM
This character doesn't believe they are evil. They believe humanity and the gods are evil. No limits hold them. Justice is destruction.

They don't believe they are chaotic. They believe that humanity and the gods are chaotic. No Oath can bind them. No law applies to them.

They believe that their personal standards supercede everything, and that anything that opposed them, hinders them, or slows them down is to be ignored or destroyed.

If the entire world is evil, then everyone deserves to die. If the entire world is chaotic, then no laws of man or god matter, for they are all corrupt.

But Law, Chaos, Good and Evil are not defined by your own beliefs in your actions. They are defined by your choice of interaction with the world and the consequences thereof. By holding the world to an impossible standard, they themselves fall.

This isn't a Paladin who falls due to lack of conviction. This is a Paladin that falls due to infinite arrogance.

The standard of infinite good and infinite law she holds others to makes her chaotic and evil.

A Blackguard is someone who has embraced evil through an act of will. They want to be evil. This Paladin has embraced evil through an act of pride.

Fez
2007-02-02, 01:38 PM
[i]
Deathblow:
A Fallen Paladin may attempt a Deathblow 1/day, plus 1/day every 5 levels of Fallen Paladin.

A Deathblow gains a bonus to hit equal to the Fallen Paladins's Charisma modifier, and it deals bonus negative energy damage equal to the Fallen Paladin's class level.

If this blow hits but fails to reduce the target below 0 HP, all damage from th blow is cancelled, and the use/day of Deathblow is returned to the Fallen Paladin.

If this blow succeeds in reducing the target below 0 HP, the target immediately becomes dead and his soul is severed. (See Sever the Soul)


This last bit is too powerful. If you can keep trying Deathblow over and over when someone is low HP and when successful you both get HP and Sever their Soul, then it becomes pretty overpowered. Particularly if you also have a hoard of underlings where you have decent chance of one shotting with the bonus damage on the deathblow.

I agree though that putting yourself above the laws of the land is Chaotic. It doesn't matter if you feel you're lawful. A lawful character obeys the laws and is guided by them.

Yakk
2007-02-02, 02:11 PM
Keeping trying to Deathblow when the target is low on HP is a bad idea.

Because if your Deathblow fails, no damage is done. The entire blow doesn't do damage if it doesn't kill the target. You just wiff wiff wiff.

I'll go and clairfy that.

Deathblow is good against underlings, but practically underlings are not that dangerous, and you only get a handful of uses per week.

And on misses you lose your charge.

In comparison, Smite Evil always works (barring hidden alignments), never fails (unless you miss naturally), and can be leveraged to deal maximium damage per use (say, when you charge on your warhorse using a lance) early on in the encounter.

Yuki Akuma
2007-02-02, 02:13 PM
A lawful character obeys the laws and is guided by them.

No.

A lawful person is orderly, and follows their own personal code of ethics. They might follow the laws of the land, and they're more likely to than a chaotic character, but they don't have to.

Yakk
2007-02-02, 02:32 PM
CG characters follow their own personal code of ethics that just happens to value freedom more than anything else.

A CG character could be a neat freak.

"Lawful characters tell the truth, keep their word, respect authority, honor tradition, and judge those who fall short of their duties."

Notice "respect authority" and "honor tradition".

The laws of a land are part of the authority and tradition of a land.

""Law" implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include close-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, judgmentalness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should."

Law and Chaos are not internal features of someone's morality. They have to do with how you believe the world should be, and your commitement to that belief.

A Lawful person believes that order is a very important social feature. Something being traditional is enough evidence that it should be followed, barring it colliding with other things that are also highly important to the character.

Chaotic is the opposite of this:
"Chaotic characters follow their consciences, resent being told what to do, favor new ideas over tradition, and do what they promise if they feel like it."

To a Chaotic person, laws are things that tell you what to do, and usually traditional rules. Something being a law is a reason to break it to a chaotic person.

Notice "follow their consciences" -- if you have a personal code of ethics, and you follow it regardless of what authority and tradition say, that is a sign of chaotic not lawful behaviour.

""Chaos" implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them."

The freedom to follow your own set of beliefs is Chaotic. The belief that authority is to be ignored and resented is Chaotic.

A character whose personal set of ethics is not based off tradition or legitimate authority is that much less lawful.

If your alignment is a mix of chaotic and lawful features, that is known as neutral.

"Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has a normal respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to obey nor a compulsion to rebel. She is honest but can be tempted into lying or deceiving others."

Similarly, we have neutral in good vs evil:

"People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others. Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships."

Most everyone is neutral-neutral by the RAW alignment system.

To be good:
"Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others."

To be evil:
""Evil" implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master."

...

Hence my arguement. When your character places her own personal ethics above and beyond everyone else's, has no respect for authority, and ignores tradition -- that is a chaotic character. And when that character no longer feels quams about killing the innocent, that character is evil.

Mauril Everleaf
2007-02-02, 02:34 PM
I have only one problem with this. It requires that the character must have had five levels in paladin before join, which is fine. All of the abilities for the Fallen Paladin start between levels 1 and 6, again which is fine, if there wasn't the clause that all of the ex-paladin levels become Fallen Paladin levels. So the only power that they don't immediately get is Cause Disease, but will get that at the next level up. It just seems like with one act everything that the paladin has done immediately changes to the opposite. You should have to at least level up once to get the new powers. IMO at least.

Roderick_BR
2007-02-02, 02:37 PM
It looks like to me that the Death Blow's only purpose is to finish an already defeated enemy to use Server the Soul. Other wise it's not useful in battle.

Erk
2007-02-03, 10:38 AM
I agree with Mauril: it looks good, but the new Fallen Paladin should have to spend some levelling up to gain these new abilities. It removes a lot of threat of Falling for PCs if this class exists: they could simply have their characters refute their gods and switch class, baboom, no cost and no risk.

I also suggest some slightly stricter requirements. This class must take some insane strength of will, to go head-to-head with a god. Perhaps the Iron Will feat might be a requirement, or something else do indicate that such as levels in knowledge:religion or whatever pops into your head as more appropriate.

Ralasha
2007-02-07, 02:26 PM
Ranks in Knowledge Religion, Knowledge History, and a couple feats, like Iron Will would be good.