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Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-03, 12:45 PM
Giants and Graveyards

http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/50/640x410_9693_Autumn_Adventures_II_2d_fantasy_giant _adventure_battle_dwarf_dwarves_picture_image_digi tal_art.jpg


Introduction
I've been homebrewing 3.5 content for a few years now, and I like to think I've gotten pretty good at it. The other day, I looked back at what I'd wrought, and I found an entire edition's worth of new, revised, and tweaked classes. So, I thought I'd collect it all here!

The Goal: To create a more balanced, more enjoyable 3.5 experience while maintaining compatibility with as much existing material as possible.

The Methods: The primary adjustment comes via a large set of new and overhauled classes, aimed squarely at Tier 3 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=266559), with narrower ranges of optimization than most published classes-- high floors, low ceilings. On top of that, I've written some houserules to address more minor irritations with gameplay, and come up with a ban list for truly broken material.

The Philosophy: I believe in mechanics. Roleplaying and player inventiveness are relatively constant qualities-- they exist regardless of what class or system you're using. Saying that a class is OK because a player can just improvise is a manifestation of the Oberani Fallacy. A well-designed game should have plenty of mechanical options, which give the improvisers more tools to play with, and the straightforward players things to do beyond "I attack" and "I roll diplomacy."

I believe in power. I believe in D&D as a heroic, even epic fantasy game, building from competent heroes into mythological characters. I believe that power should increase dramatically over the course of the game, and that low-level adventures should become obsolete-- otherwise, why bother with levels at all?

I also believe in modularity, to some extent. While some things (particularly the list of deleted feats) connect to other parts of this fix, most can be either used or ignored without affecting the rest of the material.

The Content: The project here contains three main elements: a set of houserules, a ban list, and a long list of new and revised classes.

The houserules are designed to address many mundane annoyances with the system-- feat taxes, too many skills, and modes of combat that are just flat-out inferior to each other. There are a number of "that shouldn't require investment to use" tweaks, and a few things here and there that are mostly personal prefrence.
The ban list is meant to cover things that are simply, irredeemably broken. Things that are problems all by themselves, at any optimization level. Mostly concentrating on things that are too strong, although I've tried to also include a few things (mostly PrCs) that are too weak for any playable character.
The new and revised classes are designed to settle everyone in Tier 3 (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=tc6o28b0die88jar41g5hm4nf1&topic=5293), plus or minus about half a tier. And if the ban list tries to cut off a lot of high-level (practical) optimization, here I've tried to make sure that classes have a low "floor," so that even brand-new players can build a character that can effectively contribute to the game.

Of everything, I'd say that the new classes are far and away the most important balancing element presented here. After that, I'd point to the skill and feat houserules, followed by the combat houserules and the ban list.

For DMs: Most characters built using these rules will be stronger than you expect. When designing encounters, consider party members to be a level or two higher than what it says on their sheets.


Complimentary Projects
I've done an awful lot of homebrewing and system tweaking over the years; I'll add a few useful links here that can easily be used alongside Giants and Graveyards.

The Fixed List Caster Project (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?317861-Fixed-List-Caster-Project-(3-5)): Technically already part of the class tweaks, the FLCP is an attempt to boost balance and fun by filling all major spellcasting archetypes with classes in the vein of the Beguiler or Warmage.
Chopping Down the Christmas Tree (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?357810-Chopping-Down-the-Christmas-Tree-Low-Magic-Item-Rules): 3.5 has a serious structural problem with magic item bloat-- to whit, without your pile of enchanted items, you won't have the numbers to handle monsters at your level. My rules provide a comprehensive alternative--one that doesn't leave lower-tier classes totally devoid of interesting abilities.
Best Feats of 3.5 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?400603-Best-Feats-of-3-5): Picking feats is possibly the most aggravating part of building a high-level character, doubly so if you're using my rules to cut down on feat taxes. I've collected lists of feats actually worth taking here.

Also worthy of note is my 3.5 Quickfix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?535084-Five-Quick-Rules-for-Fixing-3-5)-- if Giants and Graveyards feels like too big a change, I also took a stab at rebalancing 3.5 with just five houserules-- and my Scout Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?473666-New-Scout-Handbook).

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-03, 12:46 PM
Basic Houserules

Skills


Classes grant a minimum of 4+Int skill points/level.


Skill Ranks

All skills cost 1 point/rank, be they class or cross-class.
Your maximum number of ranks in a class skill is your level+3, and your maximum number of ranks in a cross-class skill is your level.
Once a class skill, always a class skill
Your Intelligence modifier never gives a penalty to your skill points/level


Linked Skills
Certain skills are Linked. Whenever you put ranks in one skill, you gain an equal number of ranks in any skills that it's Linked to. You cannot exceed the normal cap on skill ranks using Linked skills; however, if you have a skill as a class skill, any skill it's Linked to also counts as a class skill. (Basically, it merges the skills, only without overwriting the assumptions the rest of the game is built on). This replaces Skill Synergies.

The various Linked skills are:

Autohypnosis and Concentrate
Balance and Tumble
Bluff and Disguise
Climb, Jump, and Swim
Disable Device and Open Lock
Handle Animal and Ride
Hide and Move Silently
Knowledge (Arcana) and Spellcraft
Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Geography), and Survival.
Listen, Search, and Spot



Skill Tricks (Complete Scoundrel)


Skill Tricks may be used at-will.
Whenever you qualify for a skill trick, you automatically learn it-- you don't have to spend skill points to do so.
There is no limit to how many Skill Tricks you may learn.


Miscellaneous

When you have 4 ranks of Survival, gain Track as a bonus feat.
When you have 9 ranks of Hide and Move Silently, gain Darkstalker (Lords of Madness) as a bonus feat.



Feats

Bonus Feats

Certain feats are granted for free when your Base Attack Bonus reaches a certain level, as shown on the table below. You do not need to meet the normal prerequisites. If you would be granted a feat you already possess, you may instead learn one fighter bonus feat (for which you must meet the prerequisites)



Base Attack Bonus
Free Feats


+1
Combat Expertise



Improved Shield Bash



Improved Unarmed Strike



Power Attack



Precise Shot



Rapid Reload



Quick Draw


+6
Blind Fight



Improved Two-Weapon Fighting* (Two-Weapon Fighting)



Weapon Specialization* (Weapon Focus)


+11
Bounding Assault* (PHB 2) (Spring Attack)



Greater Two-Weapon Fighting* (Two-Weapon Fighting)



Greater Weapon Focus* (Weapon Focus)



Whirlwind Attack


+16
Greater Weapon Specialization* (Weapon Focus)



Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting* (Two-Weapon Fighting)


Starred feats are only granted if you already possess the prerequisite feat, listed in parenthesis. If you gain the prerequisite feat at a later date, you are automatically awarded any subsequent feats you would have been granted. In addition, Track and Darkstalker are granted automatically once you have a certain number of skill ranks, as described above.

Deleted Feats
Feats listed below are deleted from the game. Anywhere they are referenced, remove them. If they were listed in a monster or NPC's entry, choose a new feat in their place. If they were listed as a prerequisite, do not replace them. If they were granted as a bonus feat, pick a thematically similar feat in their place. (For example, Skill Focus (Concentration) in place of Combat Casting, or Rapid Shot in place of Point-Blank Shot)

Acrobatic
Agile
Alertness
Animal Affinity
Athletic
Combat Casting
Deceitful
Deft Hands
Diligent
Endurance
Eschew Materials
Investigator
Mobility
Negotiator
Nimble Fingers
Point-Blank Shot
Persuasive
Self-Sufficient
Shield Specialization (PHB 2)
Stealthy
Toughness


Requirements

You may take feats with an Ability score prerequisite you don't meet, so long as your level+10 is greater than the prerequisite. Thus, a 5th level Fighter could take Two-Weapon Fighting even if he did not have a Dex score of 15.
Any feat with a BAB requirement, or which requires Power Attack, Combat Expertise, or Improved Unarmed Strike as a prerequisite, counts as a Fighter Bonus Feat


Alterations

Dodge grants a Dodge bonus to AC equal to 1+1/4 your BAB.
Great Fortitude, Iron Will, and Lightning Reflexes all upgrade your save progression from slow to fast. If you already have a fast progression, you count as having the feat for the purposes of prerequisites.
Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, and Improved Sunder all allow you to immediately make a melee attack upon successfully completing the maneuver, as Improved Trip does. They also grant an additional +1 bonus per four points of BAB.
Improved Feint allows you to feint as a swift action.
Power Attack may be used with any weapon, light or heavy, melee or ranged; however, all weapons obey the -1 attack/+1 damage tradeoff. If your BAB is +10 or higher, the tradeoff becomes -1 attack/+2 damage, as though you were using a two-handed weapon with the feat's original text.
Skill Focus allows you to rolls checks made using the selected skill twice, taking the better result.
Vow of Poverty is now an option, not a feat, and allows you to choose any feat as a bonus feat, not just Exalted ones. In addition, you can trade the AC bonus for the ability to still use nonmagic, non-special-material items THAT YOU CRAFTED YOURSELF (thus allowing martial types to actually use weapons and armor)
Weapon Finesse is now a weapon-specific feat, allowing you to use your Dexterity modifier in place of Strength for a weapon not normally finessable, such as a longsword. If you wield a now-finessable weapon in two hands you add twice your Dexterity modifier, as the extra hand allows you greater control over the weapon.
Zen Archery, Intuitive Attack, and similar feats allow you to use your ability score for attack and damage, not just attack. As with Weapon Finesse, you still add twice your modifier if wielding a melee weapon in two hands.


Retraining

You may re-assign weapon-specific feats like Weapon Focus by spending one day training.



Equipment


Shield bonuses apply to touch attacks, as well as normal attacks.
Shields grant a miss chance equal of 5%, plus an additional 5% for every iterative attack granted by your BAB. Tower shields grant an additional 10% miss chance, while bucklers grant 5% less miss chance than normal.
Tower shields don't inflict an attack penalty
Replace the Greatclub with a "Greathammer," with identical stats to the Greataxe and granting +2 to Sunder checks.
Breastplates provide a +6 armor bonus, instead of +5.
Magic item crafting does not require an XP expenditure.



An Amulet of Mighty Fists only costs twice as much as the basic weapon enhancement, not three times. Thus, a +1 Amulet costs 4,000 gold, a +2 costs 16,000, and so on.




Combat

Statistics

When wielding a light or finessable melee weapon, you may use the better of your Strength or Dexterity scores to determine your bonus to hit and damage.
When wielding a two-handed melee weapon you may add twice your Strength modifier to damage.
When wielding a ranged weapon, you may add your Dexterity modifier to damage. (For a thrown weapon, use the better of your Strength or Dexterity modifier)
When making a full attack, all iterative attacks are made at a -5 penalty. Thus, a BAB of +20 would be written as +20/+15/+15/+15, rather than +20/+15/+10/+5.


Initiative

Add one-half your BAB to your initiative.


Attacks of Opportunity

You do not provoke attacks of opportunity when using the Bull Rush, Disarm, Grapple, Overrun, Sunder, or Trip options in combat.
Each round, you may make a number of attacks of opportunity equal to the number of iterative attacks you can make during a full attack.
You may take a five-foot step instead of making an attack of opportunity.


Actions in Combat

When using the Total Defense option, when you are attacked, roll 1d20 and add all bonuses to armor class. If your roll is less than 10, add 10.
When making a full attack, you may take a five-foot step after each attack.
When wielding two weapons, you may attack with both any time you could normally make only a single attack in that action, such as when taking a standard action to attack or making an attack of opportunity.



Magic


To cast defensively, you must make a Concentration check, with a DC of 15 + highest BAB among those threatening you + the level of the spell you're attempting to cast. You gain a bonus to the check equal to your BAB.
When counterspelling, you may use any spell with the same descriptor as the one you are attempting to counter.
Divination spells can be blocked by one inch lead per spell level, or any solid layer of adamantine.
Material components valued at less than 1 gp are ignored. (Ie, casters may operate as though they possessed the Eschew Materials feat)
Applying metamagic to a spell cast spontaneously does not increase the casting time.
Cantrips may be used at-will. (Cure Minor Wounds stabilizes you rather than healing one point per round).
Spell ranges do not scale with level.



Other


Alignment Restrictions on classes do not apply, except for the Paladin (whose entire reason for being is to be Good.
Multiclass penalties do not exist.
Use fractional BAB and saves




Ban List

Spells

Core

Alter Self (Replace with Pathfinder version)
Astral Projection
Contact Other Plane
Fabricate
Gate
Glibness
Limited Wish
Mage's Disjunction
Mage’s Lucubration
Miracle*
Mnemonic Enhancer
Planar Ally, and derivatives
Planar Binding, and derivatives
Polymorph (Replace with Pathfinder version)
Polymorph Any Object
Shades
Shadow Conjuration, and derivatives
Shadow Evocation, and derivatives
Shapechange (Replace with Pathfinder version)
Simulacrum
Summon Monster (all)
Summon Nature's Ally (all)
Wish*

*These spells may be available on a quest-based basis, such as a demon offering wishes in return for souls, but players should not be able to freely or reliably access them.

Some groups may also wish to ban Rope Trick for "making wandering monsters not a threat" and "encouraging the 15 minute workday," and long-range teleport spells (Teleport, Greater Teleport, Teleport Any Object, and Teleportation Circle) for "allowing scry-and-die tactics" and "eliminating the need for overland travel."

Other


Spell or Power
Source


Arcane Fusion, and derivatives
Complete Mage


Arcane Spellsurge
Dragon Magic


Body Outside Body
Complete Arcane


Celerity, and derivatives
Player’s Handbook 2


Consumptive Field, and derivatives
Libris Mortis


Draconic Polymorph
Draconomicon


Fimbulwinter
Frostburn


Fission
Expanded Psionics Handbook


Fusion
Expanded Psionics Handbook


Genesis
Epic Level Handbook


Guidance of the Avatar
Online


Ice Assassin
Frostburn


Love’s Pain
Book of Vile Darkness


Metaconcert
Expanded Psionics Handbook


Metamorphosis, and derivatives
Expanded Psionics Handbook


Mindrape
Book of Vile Darkness


Mirror Move
Online


Necrotic Tumor
Book of Vile Darkness


Power Word Pain
Races of The Dragon


Psychic Reformation
Expanded Psionics Handbook


Psychic Reformation
Expanded Psionics Handbook


Ray of Stupidity
Spell Compendium


Reality Revision
Expanded Psionics Handbook


Schism
Expanded Psionics Handbook


Shivering Touch
Frostburn


Touchsight
Expanded Psionics Handbook


Triadspell
Spell Compendium


Venomfire
Serpent Kingdoms


Wings of Cover
Races of The Dragon




Classes

Base Classes
Anything not listed in the next post is probably not OK; definitely not OK are:

Archivist
Artificer
Dragon Shaman
Favored Soul
Healer
Monk
Ninja
Samauri
Sorcerer
Spirit Shaman
Wizard


Prestige Classes


Class
Source


Apostle of Peace
Book of Exalted Deeds


Dragon Disciple
Dungeon Master’s Guide


Duelist
Dungeon Master’s Guide


Dwarven Defender
Dungeon Master’s Guide


Dweomerkeeper
Online


Incantatrix
Player’s Guide to Faerun


Incarnum Blade
Magic of Incarnum


Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil
Complete Arcane


Malconvoker
Complete Scoundrel


Master of the Unseen Hand
Complete Warrior


Planar Shepherd
Faiths of Eberron


Rainbow Servant
Complete Divine


Shadowcraft Mage
Races of Stone


Sublime Chord
Complete Arcane


Tainted Scholar
Heroes of Horror


Thaumaturgist
Dungeon Master’s Guide


Thrallherd
Expanded Psionics Handbook


True Necromancer
Libris Mortis


Ur Priest
Complete Divine




Feats



Feat
Source


Assume Supernatural Ability
Savage Species


Craft Contingent Spell
Complete Arcane


Greenbound Summoning
Lost Empires of Faerun


Lightning Mace
Complete Warrior


Mercantile Background
Player’s Guide to Faerun


Reserves of Strength
Dragonlance Campaign Setting


Sanctum Spell
Complete Arcane


Uncanny Forethought
Exemplars of Evil

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-03, 12:48 PM
New and Revised Material

Races

Common Races

Dwarf

Type: Humanoid (Dwarf)
Size:Medium
Speed:Base land speed of 30 feet. However, dwarves only run at x3 speed (x4 with the Run feat)
Senses:Darkvision out to 60 feet
Ability Modifiers+2 Constitution
Racial Skills: Craft and Knowledge (Dungeoneering). Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat:Dwarves gain either Armor Proficiency (Heavy) or Improved Sunder as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Dwarves may treat waraxes, dwarven waraxes, and greataxes as simple weapons.
Dwarven Endurance (Ex):Dwarves do not have their speed reduced when wearing heavier armor or carrying heavier loads. In addition, when making Fortitude saves against poison and disease, they may roll twice and take the better result.
Ancestor’s Protection (Su): Once per day as a swift action, a dwarf can channel the spirits of his ancestors, granting him spell resistance equal to 10+HD for one round, plus one round per point of his Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). If the dwarf already has spell resistance when he activates this ability, it increases by five. This ability may be used on additional time per day for every five hit die the individual possesses.


Elf, High

Type: Humanoid (Elf)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: Low-light vision
Ability Modifiers: +2 Int
Racial Skills: Balance and Knowledge (Arcane). Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: High Elves gain either Spell Focus or Combat Reflexes as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: High Elves may treat Longswords and Shortswords as simple weapons
Elven Wakefulness (Ex): Elves do not sleep— instead, they “trance” for about 4 hours a night. While trancing, elves are partially aware of the world around them— they are not considered helpless, merely prone and flat-footed, and may continue to make Spot and Listen checks at a -5 penalty. They are immune to magical sleep effects.
Arcane Dabbler (Sp): Pick one first level Sorcerer/Wizard spell. The elf may cast this spell once per day as a spell-like ability. This ability may be used on additional time per day for every five hit die the individual possesses. If they take levels in an arcane casting class, instead add that spell to their list of spells known.


Elf, Wood

Type: Humanoid (Elf)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 40 feet
Senses: Low-light vision
Ability Modifier: +2 Dexterity
Racial Skills: Balance and Knowledge (Nature). Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Wood Elves gain Rapidshot or Spring Attack as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Wood Elves may treat Longbows and Shortbows as simple weapons.
Elven Wakefulness (Ex): Elves do not sleep— instead, they “trance” for about 4 hours a night. While trancing, elves are partially aware of the world around them— they are not considered helpless, merely prone and flat-footed, and may continue to make Spot and Listen checks at a -5 penalty. They are immune to magical sleep effects.
Drudic Dabbler (Sp): Pick one first level Druid spell. The elf may cast this spell once per day as a spell-like ability. This ability may be used on additional time per day for every five hit die the individual possesses. If they take levels in a divine casting class, instead add that spell to their list of spells known.


Gnome

Type: Humanoid (Gnome)
Size: Small
Speed: Base land speed of 20 feet
Senses: Low-Light Vision
Ability Modifier: +2 Charisma
Racial Skills: Bluff and Craft. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Gnomes gain either Brew Potion or Skill Focus as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat hand crossbows and rapiers as simple weapons.
Gnomish Brewing Techniques (Ex): When making potions, gnomes may substitute a Craft (Alchemy) check for a spell, with a DC of 10+5*level of the spell to be replaced. In addition, gnomes brew potions twice as fast as normal.
Gnomish Illusions (Sp): Gnomes may use Silent Image as a spell-like ability once per day, and Dancing Lights, Ghost Sound, and Prestidigitation as spell like abilities once times per day each. Theses ability may be used on additional time per day for every five hit die the individual possesses. If they take levels in a casting class, instead add the aforementioned spells to their list of spells known.


Half-Elf

Type: Humanoid (Elf and Human; see below)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: Low-Light vision
Ability Modifier: +2 Dexterity
Racial Skills: Pick one skill as your racial skill. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Half-Elves gain Skill Focus as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Half Elves may treat either longbows and shortbows, or longbows and longswords or one martial weapon of their choice as simple weapons.
Fast Learner: Half-Elves gain 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
Mixed Heritage (Ex): Half-Elves take many of the best aspects from each of their parents. When determining race-based effects, Half-Elves may count as either a human or an elf, whichever is more beneficial at the time.


Halfling

Type: Humanoid (Halfling)
Size: Small
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: none
Ability Modifier:+2 Dexterity
Racial Skills: Sleight of Hand and Tumble. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Halflings gain either Dodge or Mounted Combat as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity:Halflings may treat lances and shortbows as simple weapons.
Strong Heart (Ex): Halflings are immune to fear and fear effects.
Halfling Luck (Su): Once per day, as a swift action, a Halfling may grant himself a luck bonus to a single attack roll, saving throw, skill check, or ability check equal to 2+1/4 his level. In addition, if his roll is ten or less, he may reroll and add 10. This ability may be used on additional time per day for every five hit die the individual possesses.


Half-Orc

Type: Humanoid (Orc and Human; see below)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 30ft.
Senses: Darkvision out to 60ft
Ability Modifier:+2 Strength
Racial Skills: Intimidate and Survival. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Half-orcs receive one feat of their choice as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Half-Orcs may treat Greatswords, Greataxes, and Greathammers as simple weapons.
Mixed Heritage (Ex): Half-Orcs take many of the best aspects from each of their parents. When determining race-based effects, Half-Orcs may count as either a human or an orc, whichever is more beneficial at the time.
Orcish Terror (Ex): When he really wants to, a half-orc can truely put the fear of Gruumsh in a target. Once per day, he may activate this ability while intimidating a target. If successful, instead of ending when the half-orc leaves, as is normal for the Intimidate skill, the intimidation effect lasts for 24 hours after his departure. Thereafter, the target’s attitude toward the half-orc shifts to unfriendly, but a lingering fear remains. Whenever the half-orc returns to someone he has previously intimidated, he gains a +5 bonus on his Intimidate check to re-establish the effect. This ability may be used on additional time per day for every five hit die the individual possesses.


Human

Type: Humanoid (Human)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: none
Ability Modifier:+2 to a stat of your choice
Racial Skills: Pick one skill as your racial skill. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Humans receive one feat of their choice as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity:Humans may treat one martial weapon of their choice as a simple weapon.
Fast Learner: Humans receive 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.


Subrace: Azurin

Azurin gain 1 point of essentia instead of bonus skill points.




Uncommon Races

Changeling

Type: Humanoid (Shapechanger)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 40 feet
Senses: none
Ability Modifier: +2 Charisma
Racial Skills: Bluff and Disguise. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Weapon Familiarity: Changelings may treat rapiers and saps as simple weapons.
Resistance to Transmutation: Being shapechangers, Changelings possess a natural resistance to uninvited attempts to control their forms. Changelings gain a bonus to saves against Transmutation spells equal to their Wisdom modifier (minimum +1).
Minor Change Shape (Su): Changelings have the supernatural ability to alter their appearance as though using a disguise self spell that affects their bodies but not their possessions. This is not an illusory effect but a minor physical alteration of a changeling’s facial features, skin color and texture, and size, within the limits described for the spell. A changeling can use this ability at will, and the alteration lasts until she changes shape again. A changeling reverts to her natural form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals her natural form. Using this ability is a full-round action.


Drow

Type: Humanoid (Elf)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: Darkvision: Drow can see in the dark up to 120 feet
Ability Modifier: +2 Int
Racial Skills: Bluff and Hide. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Drow gain Improved Feint or Improved Initiative as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Drow treat Rapiers and Hand Crossbows as simple weapons.
Elven Wakefulness (Ex): As elves, Drow do not sleep— instead, they “trance” for about 4 hours a night. While trancing, drow are partially aware of the world around them— they are not considered helpless, merely prone and flat-footed, and may continue to make Spot and Listen checks at a -5 penalty. They are immune to magical sleep effects.
Spread the Shadow (Ex): Drow may use darkness and fairy fire as spell-like abilities, each usable once per day. For every five hit die they possess, they may use each ability an additional time per day.


Goblin

Type: Humanoid (Goblinoid)
Size: Small
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: Darkvision: Goblins may see in the dark up to 60ft.
Ability Modifier: +2 Dex
Racial Skills: Move Silently and Ride. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Goblins gain Mounted Combat or Spring Attack as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Goblins treat Shortbows and Lances as simple weapons.
Iron Stomachs: Goblins can eat almost anything. They gain a +5 bonus to Survival checks made to find food, and are immune to being sickened or nauseated.
Scuttle: Once per day, a Goblin may move up to his speed as a swift action without provoking attacks of opportunity. This ability may be used on additional time per day for every five hit die the individual possesses.


Goliath

Type: Humanoid (Giant)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: none
Ability Modifier: +2 Strength
Racial Skills: Climb and Jump. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Goliaths gain Leap of the Heavens (PHB 2) or Cleave as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity:Goliaths may treat warhammers and greathammers as simple weapons.
Powerful Build: The physical stature of goliath lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a goliath is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the goliath is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A goliath is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A goliath can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. This ability allows a goliath to qualify for feats, PrCs, and similar abilities with with a prerequisite of Large size.
Mountain Movement: Goliaths may make standing jumps as though they had a running start, and retain their Dexterity bonus to AC when climbing.


Kobold

Type: Humanoid (Dragonblooded)
Size: Small
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: Darkvision: Kobolds may see in the dark up to 60ft.
Ability Modifier: +2 Dexterity
Racial Skills: Hide and Craft. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Kobolds receive Spring Attack or Improved Initiative as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Kobolds treat Light Picks, Heavy Picks, and Greatspears as simple weapons.
Slight Build: The physical stature of kobolds lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a kobold is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the kobold is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A kobold is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A kobold can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a kobold remain those of a creature of their actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category. This ability allows a kobold to qualify for feats, PrCs, and similar abilities with with a prerequisite of Tiny size.
Trapfinding: Kobolds can use the Search skill to locate traps when the task has a Difficulty Class higher than 20, as the Rogue ability of the same name.


Lizardfolk

Type: Humanoid (Reptilian)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: none
Ability Modifier: +2 Strength
Racial Skills: varies-- see below
Racial Feat: Lizardfolk receive either Track or Weapon Focus (Claws) or Weapon Focus (Bite) as a bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Lizardfolk are automatically proficient with their natural weapons.
Scales: Lizardfolk gain a +2 bonus to natural armor. This bonus increases by one for every five hit die the Lizardfolk possesses, as their scales harden with age.
Natural Weaponry: Lizardfolk have two primary claw attacks dealing 1d4 damage each, and a secondary bite attack dealing 1d6 damage.


Lizardfolk vary slightly depending on what environment they've evolved to live in:



Desert

Racial Skills: Balance and Climb.
Heat Endurance: Desert Lizardfolk may comfortably exist in environments of up to 140 degrees Fahrenheit, and only need to drink one-tenth as much water as normal humanoids of their size.


Swamp

Racial Skills: Balance and Swim.
Hold Breath: Swamp Lizardfolk can hold their breath for a number of rounds equal to four times their Constitution score before they risks drowning.



Warforged

Type: Construct (Living Construct)
Size: Medium
Speed: Base land speed of 30 feet
Senses: none
Ability Modifier: +2 Constitution
Racial Skills: Craft and Concentrate. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Racial Feat: Warforged receive Diehard or a Warforged feat of their choice as a racial bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Warforged may treat longswords and glaives as simple weapons.
Composite Plating: Warforged have a +2 bonus to Natural Armor and 25% fortification



New Feats


Alien Call
Prerequisite: Conjurer Level 3
Benefit: When using your Conjured Ally ability, you may spend one additional daily use to add the Pseudonatural template (CArc) to the summoned creature.

Beloved of Nature
Prerequisite: Savage 2
Benefit: You gain an additional Nature’s Gift ability
Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

Break on Through
Prerequisite: Improved Sunder, Strength 15
Benefit: If you miss an opponent in melee combat by an amount equal to or less than your Strength modifier, you may make a sunder attempt against their weapon or armor as a free action. If you destroy it, you deal them melee damage as though you had hit them with the initial attack.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Brutal Overrun
Prerequisite: Improved Overrun
Benefit: You may make an attack of opportunity against any opponent knocked prone by an ovverrun attempt.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Child of the Wild
Prerequisite: Savage 4
Benefit: You gain an additional Evolution ability
Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

Chokehold
Prerequisite: Improved Grapple
Benefit: Once you have successfully initiated a grapple, you may deal 2d6+2*Strength modifier damage every round with a successful grapple check. This damage may be lethal or nonlethal, as you choose.
Normal: Damaging an opponent in a grapple deals 1d3+Strength modifier nonlethal damage.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Crushing Tackle
Prerequisite: Strength 15, Improved Bull Rush
Benefit: If you successfully Bull Rush a foe into a solid object, deal 1d6 bludgeoning damage per 5 feet he would have been pushed normally, plus twice your Strength modifier.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Curse of Sloth [Curse]
Prerequisite: Greater Hexblade's Curse
Benefit: Instead of a normal curse, you may place a curse of sloth on your target. Each round, the victim of a curse of sloth has a 50% chance to act normally; otherwise, it takes no action. A curse of sloth otherwise functions as a normal Hexblade curse.

Desert Ally
Prerequisite: Conjurer Level 3
Benefit: When using your Conjured Ally ability, you may spend one additional daily use to add the Dustform template (Sandstorm) to the summoned creature.

Doomhammer
Prerequisite:Strength 15, Improved Bull Rush, Weapon Focus (Any bludgeoning weapon)
Benefit: As a standard action, make a single melee attack with a bludgeoning weapon, at a -2 penalty. If your attack hits, deal damage as normal and make a bull rush attempt as a free action, without provoking attacks of opportunity.
Special: You may combine this feat with the power attack feat. For every -1 penalty you take to attack, gain a +1 bonus on the Strength check for the Bull Rush attempt. This bonus replaces the bonus damage from using power attack. A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Double Summons
Prerequisite: Conjurer Level 6
Benefit: When using your Conjured Ally ability, you may spend two additional daily uses to summon a second creature of the same type.

Eclectic Training
Prerequisite: none
Benefit: Pick one skill. From now on, that skill (and any linked skills, if applicable) is always treated as class skill for you. In addition, you receive a number of bonus skill points equal to your current level, and one additional skill point at each subsequent level. These bonus skill points can only be invested in the chosen skill.

Endurance of the Wilds
Prerequisite: Nature’s Resilience class ability, Constitution 17
Benefit: You may use your Nature’s Resilience ability an additional 3 times per day.
Special: Upon gaining the Nature’s Majesty class feature, you may immediately retrain this feat.

Extra Brutish
Prerequisite: Barbarian 6
Benefit: You learn an additional Brute Power of one grade lower than the highest grade of Brute Power you currently have access to.
Special: You may take this feat more than once. Each time, you may learn an additional Brute Power.

Extra Composition
Prerequisite: Ability to learn Sonatas
Benefit: You learn one additional Composition of one grade lower than the highest grade of Composition you currently have access to.
Special: This feat may be taken more than once. Each time, you may learn an additional Composition.

Extra Smiting [Smite]
Prerequisite: Smite Evil class ability
Benefit: You may attempt to Smite Evil an extra two times per encounter.
Special: You make take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Faithful Ally
Prerequisite: Conjurer Level 6
Benefit: Beginning at 8th level, when using his Conjured Ally ability, a Conjurer may expend an additional daily use to have his summon last for a number of minutes equal to his Conjurer level plus his Intelligence modifier

Fast Grab
Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple
Benefit: If you hit an opponent with an unarmed strike, you deal normal damage, and may immediately attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking attacks of opportunity. However, you suffer a -4 penalty on the first grapple check.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Frogmarch
Prerequisite: Improved Grapple, Strength 15
Benefit: When attempting to move during a grapple, you may move up to your full speed with a successful grapple check.
Normal: You may move up to half your speed with a successful grapple check.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Frostfell Ally
Prerequisite: Conjurer Level 3
Benefit: When using your Conjured Ally ability, you may spend one additional daily use to add the Ice Beast template (Frostburn) to the summoned creature.

Giant Rush
Prerequisite: Strength 15, Improved Bull Rush
Benefit: When you win a Bull Rush attempt, you may push your foe the full distance without having to move with him.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Greenbound Ally
Prerequisite: Conjurer Level 6
Benefit: When using your Conjured Ally ability, you may spend three additional daily uses to add the Greenbound template (LEoF) to the summoned creature.

Healing Disciple
Prerequisite: Caster Level 1, Wisdom 13
Benefit: Add all spells from the Healing domain to your list of spells known. In addition, the Heal skill is always a class skill for you.

Lingering Curse [Curse]
Prerequisite: Greater Hexblade's Curse
Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier, you may expend your curse as a standard action to place a Lingering Curse on your target. A lingering curse has only half the effect of your normal curse, but has a permanent duration-- it cannot be dispelled, and it can only be removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell. Targets get a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Hexblade's class level + Hexblade's Cha modifier) to negate the curse.

Martial Curse [Curse]
Prerequisite: Hexblade Curse
Benefit: You may attempt to curse a target as a free action after striking them with a ranged or melee attack. If you do, the save DC is equal to to 10+1/2 Hexblade level + Strength modifier (for a melee attack) or 10+1/2 Hexblade level + Dexterity modifier (for a ranged attack).

Mass Staredown
Prerequisite: Intimidate 12 ranks, Staredown
Benefit: As a standard action, you may attempt to demoralize all opponents within 30 feet with a single Intimidate check.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Mighty Smiting [Smite]
Prerequisite: Smite Evil class ability, Strength 15
Benefit: Your Smite attacks bypass damage reduction.

Mystic Curse [Curse]
Prerequisite: Hexblade Curse
Benefit: The target of your curse also takes a -2 penalty to caster level.
Special: When you gain the Greater Curse ability, the caster level penalty improves to -4. The penalties further improved to -6 when you gain the Dire Curse ability.

Natural Caster
Prerequisite: Desert, Frozen, or Ocean Insight
Benefit: You gain the benefits of your Desert, Frozen, or Ocean Insight class feature as though you had gained another level in the appropriate class, allowing you to learn two new spells. If you have multiple Insight class features, you must choose one to advance.
Special: You may take this feat more than once.

Perfect Terror
Prerequisite: Intimidate 19 ranks, Staredown, Mass Staredown
Benefit: After your first successful attack in combat, opponents within 30 feet must make a Will save (DC 10 + ½ level + your Charisma modifier) or become shaken for 4d6 rounds. If they fail the save by five or more, they become frightened for 4d6 rounds instead, and if they fail their save by ten or more, they become panicked for 4d6 rounds instead.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Physical Curse [Curse]
Prerequisite: Hexblade Curse
Benefit: You may choose to force targets of your Hexblade curse make a Fortitude save instead of a Will save.

Ranged Smiting [Smite]
Prerequisite: Smite Evil class ability
Benefit: You may attempt to Smite Evil with a ranged attack.

Rapid Smite [Smite]
Prerequisite: Smite Evil class ability
Benefit: You may attempt to Smite Evil when making an opportunity attack.

Reactive Counterspell
You can react quickly to counterspells cast by opponents.
Prerequisites: Improved Initiative, Improved Counterspell.
Benefits: Once per round, you can counterspell an opponent's spell even if you have not readied an action to do so. This counterspell action takes the place of your regular action for the round. You can't use this feat when flatfooted.
Normal: Without this feat, you must ready an action each round you wish to use a counterspell (see the Player's Handbook, page 152).

Repeated Smiting [Smite]
Prerequisite: Smite Evil class ability, BAB +6
Benefit: As a full round action, you may expend a use of your Smite Evil ability and make a full attack. Each attack you make has a bonus to attack equal to your Charisma modifier, and deals bonus damage equal to your Paladin level. Using this ability counts as Smiting Evil for all intents and purposes.

Shield Cover
Prerequisite: Shield Specialization (Any)
Benefit: As a swift action, you may transfer the any bonuses from your shield to an adjacent ally until the beginning of your next turn. If either of you moves or is forced to move so that you are no longer adjacent, the benefit is lost.
Special: If your natural reach (ie, from size) is more than five feet, you may extend the benefit of this feat to any ally within your reach. A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Shield Pull
Prerequisite: Improved Disarm
Benefit: You may remove a target's shield with a successful disarm attempt, instead of his weapon. The target gets a +4 bonus to resist being de-shielded.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Side Throw
Prerequisite: Strength 15, Improved Grapple
Benefit: As a standard action, make a grapple check against one foe within melee range. If you win the check, you may immediately make a bull rush attempt against that foe. You do not provoke any attacks of opportunity for the bull rush, and you do not need to move along with your foe to throw him the full distance. After being moved, your foe must make a Reflex save (DC=the difference between your Bull Rush checks) or be knocked prone.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Staredown
Prerequisite: Intimidate 9 ranks
Benefit: You may attempt to demoralize an opponent (see the Intimidate skill for details) in combat as a move action. In addition, you gain a +4 bonus on this check.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Swift Staredown
Prerequisite: Intimidate 15 ranks, Staredown
Benefit: You may attempt to demoralize an opponent (see the Intimidate skill for details) in combat as a swift action.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.

Totemic Shaman
Prerequisite: Savage 3
Benefit: You gain an additional Totemic Power ability
Special: You may take this feat multiple times.

Triple Summons
Prerequisite: Conjurer Level 6, Double Summons
Benefit: When using your Conjured Ally ability, you may spend four additional daily uses to summon a third creature of the same type.

Watch my Back
Prerequisite: Combat Expertise
Benefit: When you fight defensively, use the total defense option, the combat expertise feat, or any other ability where you sacrifice offensive accuracy for defense, you may transfer the defensive bonus to an ally within your reach. The bonus only lasts as long as you are using the ability, and your ally is within your reach.
Special: A fighter may select this feat as a fighter bonus feat.


New Spells

Dimension Lock, Lesser
Abjuration
Level: Clr 5, Sor/Wiz 5, Conjurer 5
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: 20-ft.-radius emanation centered on a point in space
Duration: One day/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

You create a shimmering emerald barrier that blocks teleportation. Spells in the Teleport subschool do not function within the area-- those within cannot teleport out, and those attempting to teleport in treat the area as if it were a solid object.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-03, 12:49 PM
Base Classes

Ardent-- A psionic champion who derives mental power from his beliefs.


Increase HD to a d8.
Add Climb, Intimidate, Jump, Sense Motive, and Swim to the list of skills, and increase skill points to 4+Int
Knows all powers from his mantles.
His maximum power level is the same as a Psion, rather than the original ML-based limit, and and he may not take the Substitute Mantle ACF.
At 4th level, and every subsequent even-numbered level, he learns one new power from the Psion list at one level higher than normal-- ie, what would have been a 1st level power now costs 3 pp to manifest.



Barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=328113)-- A savage warrior, capable of channeling his strength into amazing feats of destruction.

Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?392463-The-Bard-v2-%28Spell-less-and-Fixed-List-Caster-Project-Versions%29)-- A musical jack-of-all-trades, mixing music and magic with martial and social skill. Capable of many things, but shines as a leader or supporter.

Beastman (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16914183)-- A shapeshifter par excellence, capable of transforming into a wide variety of animals and vermin. An original creation.

Beguiler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?361143-Beguiler-Revised-%28Fixed-list-Caster-Project%29-3-5-PEACH&p=17747556)-- A smiling trickster, augmenting his natural charm with powerful illusions and enchantments.

Binder-- A mystic who communes with forgotten spirits, granting them a window into the world in exchange for great power.


Add Spot and Listen to the list of class skills, and increase skill points to 4+Int.
Expel Vestige is an inherent class feature now, usable 1/2 Charisma modifier times per day. The -10 penalties stack.
A feat, Improved Expel Vestige, reduces the penalties by 1/2 your binder level, rounded up, and grants an additional 2 daily uses of Expel Vestige.
Abilities with a 5-round cooldown instead move to a d4 round cooldown, similar to a dragon's breath weapon.
You may bind 1 vestige/5 class levels, minimum 1 (ie, one vestige at 1st, two at 5th, three at 10rd, etc)


The vestige Zceryll (from the online supplement) no longer grants the Summon Alien ability.


Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319556)-- A warrior and a mystic, granted power by his god, with a spell list largely based on his chosen domains.

Conjurer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317495)-- A master of planar magic, of summons and teleportation. An original creation.

Crusader-- A skillful warrior, an almost unstoppable champion of a cause.


d12 HD
Add Climb, Handle Animal, Listen, Spot, and Swim to the list of class skills, and increase skill points to 4+Int.
Can take a standard action to restart his maneuver-granting chain thingie



Dragon Disciple (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15167076)-- A mystic warrior, tapping into the powers of the dragons as he slowly assumes their form. Breath weapons, natural weapons, and invocations galore. An original creation.

Dread Necromancer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?348151-Revised-Dread-Necromancer-%28Fixed-List-Caster-Project%29&p=17455632)-- A dark and sinister figure, master of death and undeath alike.

Druid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321588)-- A devotee of nature, with spells and powers based on the specific aspects they revere.

Duskblade-- A destructive mage-warrior, capable of channeling spells through his weapon to cause massive devastation.

Add Balance, Handle Animal, Profession, Listen, Spot, and Use Magic Device to skill list, boost points to 4+ Int
Duskblades know all spells on their list, and cast them spontaneously
Revised spell list (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16941961#post16941961).
Duskblades may channel any melee or ranged touch attack spell through any melee or ranged weapon attack. (Including natural weapons)
Arcane Attunement is replaced by a familiar.
At 2nd level, they gain Skill Focus (Concentration) instead of the now-defunct Combat Casting.
Eclectic Learning: At 4th level, and every subsequent even-numbered level, a Duskblade learns one spell from the Sorcerer/Wizard list. If the spell is a touch attack or ranged touch attack, he learns it one level lower than normal. If it does not, he learns it at its normal level. He must be able to cast the spell at its adjusted level in order to learn it.


Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276280)-- The peak of mundane capability. A warrior par excellence, capable of taking the basic aspects of the system and stretching them to the breaking point.

Hexblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=275279)-- A dark warrior, wielding the power of misfotune as others wield a sword.

Incarnate-- A warrior-philosopher who channels the mysterious energies of incarnum to augment his own abilities.


Ditch the stupid alignment fluff, because I hate it when alignment restricts build choices. Instead, they're the wizard-analogues, devoted to exploring meldshaping as an art.
Add Spot, Listen, Sense Motive, Use Magic Device, Speak Language, and all Knowledge skills to the list of class skills, and increase skill points to 6+Int.
Boost their BAB to medium (as the cleric)
Double the number of times per day Rapid Meldshaping may be used.
Perfect Meldshaper may be used [Wis Mod] times per day.



Mage of the Unseen Hand (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16705607)-- A powerful mage, master of telekinesis and force magic. An original creation.

Marshal-- A simple martial (ha ha) leader, who supports his allies and controls the battlefield through sheer presence.

Monk-- see Swordsage

Night Soul (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?380350-The-Night-Soul-Stealth-and-Shadow-Magic-%28Fixed-list-Caster-Project%29-3-5-PEACH&p=18322301)-- A master of stealth and shadow magic.

Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12150015)-- A pure, noble hero, desiring nothing more than to protect the weak and punish the wicked.

Psion-- An unusual spellcaster who derives his power from the pure workings of the mind.


Add Spot, Listen, and Use Psionic Device to the list of class skills, and increase skill points to 4+Int.
At first level, you may choose Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma to use as your casting stat.
Knows all powers from his chosen discipline; however, he selects only 1.5 powers known/level, alternating between learning 2 and learning 1 (two powers known chosen at 1st, one at 2nd, two at 3rd, one at 4th, and so on)



Psychic Warrior-- A warrior-mage, augmenting his body with pure mental energy.


Add Spot, Listen, Intimidate, Handle Animal, and Tumble to the list of class skills, and increase skill points to 4+Int.
At first level, you may choose Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma to use as your casting stat.
Multiply his power points per level by 1.5, rounding up (starting with 1 point/day)


ACF: Soulknife
Lose: Bonus Feats
Gain:

Mind Blade-- At first level, you can manifest your mind blade. It takes the form of one melee weapon of your choice (chosen at first level and not changeable without the Shape Mind Blade ability), and has an enhancement bonus equal to one-half your level, rounded down. It is always sized appropriately for you. Manifesting your mind blade is a swift action.
Throw Mind blade-- At second level, you can throw your mind blade, with a range increment of 30 feet. If you are a high enough level to gain multiple attacks, you may make multiple attacks with your thrown mind blade.
Shape Mind Blade-- At fifth level, you may shape your mind blade into any melee weapon you're proficient with as a swift action. You may also shape your blade into two light weapons-- if you do so, the total bonus from your mind blade enhancement that you can apply to each blade is one point lower than normal.
Mind Blade Enhancement Starting at 6th level, you may apply special enhancements to your mind blade in lieu of the enchantment bonus. There is no restriction on the list of properties, although you must follow normal magic weapon rules. Changing the enhancement takes one hour.
Swift Shape Mind Blade-- At 10th level, you may change the shape of your mind blade as a free action, which may even be taken in the middle of a full attack.
Swift Mind Blade Enhancement-- At twelfth level, you may change your mind blade enhancement as a standard action.
Effortless Mind Blade Enhancement-- At twentieth level, you may change the enhancement of your mind blade as a free action, which may even be taken in the middle of a full attack.



Ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14192508)-- A mobile scout and warrior, master of the wilds.

Ritualist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=325646)-- The slowest, weakest, and most methodical of mages, but with unrivaled versatility. An original creation.

Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259254)-- A brilliant, underhanded trickster. Check your pockets.

Savage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=240943)-- An animalistic barbarian slowly morphing into a beast himself. An original creation.

Seer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=314601)-- A master of divination magic, prepared for everything because he's already seen it. An original creation.

Shadowcaster-- An ominous magician who weaves shadows into sinister spells.


Add Listen, Search, Balance, and Tumble to the list of class skills, and increase skill points to 4+Int
Gain Trapfinding at first level
You gain twice as many uses/day of your abilities as originally suggested.
Use the creator's suggested fixes (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?184955-Shadowcaster-fixes-by-Mouseferatu)



Shaper (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16668927)-- A mystic warrior capable of altering forms-- his own, his allies, his enemies, and even the environment around him. An original creation.

Shugenja-- An eastern-flavored elementalist

Add Spot and Listen to the list of class skills, and increase skill points to 4+Int.
You know all spells from your element and order, and may cast them spontaneously.
At 4th level, and each subsequent even-numbered level, you may learn one spell from a non-prohibited element at one level higher than normal.


Soulborn-- A noble warrior who channels the mysterious energies of incarnum to augment his own abilities.


Add Sense Motive and Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) to their skill list. In addition, alignment no longer determines their bonus skill-- all Soulborn get Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Intimidate.
Increase skill points to 4+Int
Smite Opposition does Charisma Mod+1d6/level damage, and may be used once every 1d4 rounds. At 9th level, this recharge time improves to 1d4-1 rounds (minimum 1 round), and at 17th to 1d4-2 rounds (minimum 0 rounds)
His bonus feats may be drawn from the list of Fighter bonus feats, as well as Incarnum feats.
Share Incarnum Defense is continual and at-will-- it affects all adjacent allies automatically, and for [Cha Mod, minimum 1] rounds after they leave.
He gets additional bonus feats at 15th and 19th levels (continuing the progression).
Gets Rapid Meldshaping as an Incarnate, although he does not get the uses doubled as my Incarnate tweaks describe.


Meldshaping
A Soulborn has the Meldshaping ability of a Totemist 3 levels lower, with the following exceptions:

Save DCs for his soulmelds are based off Charisma, not Wisdom.
Soulborn do not get access to the Totem chackra.
Soulborn may bind to the Crown chakra at 5th level. (effective meldshaping level 2)
He still draws from the list of Soulborn soulmelds.

Otherwise, they follow the Totemist table for access to Chakra binds, Soulmelds/Day, Essentia, and Chakra Binds. Their Meldshaper level is equal to their Soulborn level-3. Thus, a 5th level Soulborn would be able to shape 3 Soulmelds, bind his Crown chakra, have 2 essentia from his class, and a Meldshaper level of 2.

Add the following Soulmelds to their class list:

Bloodwar Gauntlets
Lightning Gauntlets
Incarnate Weapon
Adamant Pauldrons
Vitality Belt


Remove the following Soulmelds from their class list:

ALL Necrocarnate soulmelds
Soulspark Familiar
Illusion Veil
Theraputic Mantle
Arcane Focus
Flame Cincuture



Swashbuckler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259254)-- A daring outlaw, capable of fighting off the law with one hand still around your wife's waist.

Soulblade-- see Psychic Warrior

Swordsage-- A disciplined devotee of the art of the sword


Add Spot to the list of class skills, and correct the "x6 skill points at first level" error.
Gain Adaptive Style as a bonus feat at first level
AC Bonus functions in light or no armor, not just when wearing light armor.
At 10th level, may use Adaptive Style as a standard action


ACF: Unarmed Swordsage
Lose: Discipline Focus, Martial weapon proficiencies
Gain:

Proficiency with the kama, nunchaku, sai, shuriken, and siangham.
Unarmed Strike -- As the Monk class feature)
Ki Strike (Su)-- Beginning at 4th level, your unarmed strikes have an enhancement bonus equal to one-fourth your Swordsage level.
Wholeness of Body (Ex)-- At 8th level, gain the benefits of the Monk's Purity of Body and Wholeness of Body abilities
Diamond Soul (Ex)-- At 12th level, gain SR equal to 12+level. Unlike most forms of SR, you may allow any spell you wish to penetrate your resistance.
Timeless Body (Ex)-- At 16th level, as the Monk class feature.
Perfect Body (Ex)-- You become an Outsider (Nature), gain a +2 perfection bonus to all ability scores, and DR 10/--.



Totemist-- A savage warrior who channels the mysterious energies of incarnum to augment his own abilities.


Boost HD to a d10
Add Listen, Hide and Move Silently to their skill list, along with Knowledge (Geography)
No Illiteracy.
Rebind Soulmeld may be used twice as often as the table shows.



Warblade-- A flamboyant warrior, master of the art of the sword.


Hit Die reduced to a d10
Revised skill list: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Local), Listen, Martial Lore, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, Swim, Tumble, Use Rope
Class features are based off Charisma, not Intelligence
The list of warblade bonus feats includes all fighter bonus feats.
You must spend a move action to regain maneuvers; no more attacking-and-recovering. Starting at 10th level, you may recover as a Swift action.



Warden (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16543702)-- A warrior and powerful mage, with magic focused on aiding and protecting himself and his closest allies. An original creation.

Warlock-- A troubled mage, gifted with great power by dark sources.

Upgrade his HD to a d8
Add Hide and Move Silently to their list of class skills
His number of invocations known equals his level (see Complete Mage for more choices). He learns one additional invocation at 6th, 11th, and 16th level, when he gains access to a new level of invocation)
Add your Charisma modifier to Eldrich Blast damage. At level 10, add twice your Charisma modifier, and at level 20, add three times your Charisma modifier.
Eldrich Blast deals 1d6/2 levels damage, as a rogue's sneak attack. You may full attack with Eldrich Blast.



Eldrich Essence invocations apply to all attacks in the full attack, but only once per target.
Blast Shape invocations are standard actions, and thus not compatible with full attacking. Eldrich Spear and Hideous Blow are exceptions to this rule.


ACF: Stalwart Warlock

Upgrade his BAB to full
Proficiency with all martial weapons
Gain the Duskblade's Armored Mage ability, with all its upgrades.
Lose Eldrich Blast
Eldrich Essence invocations may be used with mundane attacks instead of your Eldrich Blast-- as a standard action, make a single attack (melee or ranged) at your highest BAB. If it hits, it deals damage as normal, and the foe is affected by the invocation.



Warmage (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16725350)-- A walking artillery barrage and master of offensive magic.

Wilder-- An unusual mage, deriving odd powers from pure mental power.


Begins with 2 powers known, and learns one new power every level.
Psychic Enervation burns a number of power points equal to twice the original amount surged for.
Elude touch applies to all attacks, not just touch attacks.
Can replace Volatile mind (and subsequent improvements) with psionic bonus feats.





Prestige Classes

Arcane Theurge (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=323479)-- A dedicated arcanist, merging the teachings of two different classes. An original creation.

Frost Mage-- Mystic champion of snow and ice, mastering the magic of the winter.


Strike "arcane" from the requirments-- you must be able to cast first level spells, period.
Advances spellcasting at all levels except 1 and 5.
New class feature at first level: Frozen Insight-- Every time you gain a level of this class, you select two spells described in Frostburn and add them to your list of spells known.



If you are adding spells to the Cleric, Druid, Paladin, or Ranger lists, the spells must come from the matching class list.
If you are adding spells to the Bard list, spells can come from either the Bard or Sorcerer/Wizard lists, taking whichever version is lower level if there is a disagreement.
If you are adding spells to the list of a different arcane caster, select your spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard list.
If you are adding spells to the list of a different divine caster, select your spells from the Druid list.



Mystic Healer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=317823)-- A powerful mage, dedicated to the cause of Life. An original creation.

Sand Shaper-- Mystic champion of heat and sand, mastering the magic of the desert.


New entry requirements: Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) or Survival 5 ranks, Caster Level 5, Drift Magic.
Advances spellcasting at all levels except 1 and 5.
Revised Desert Insight-- Every time you gain a level of this class, you select two spells described in Sandstorm and add them to your list of spells known.



If you are adding spells to the Cleric, Druid, Paladin, or Ranger lists, the spells must come from the matching class list.
If you are adding spells to the Bard list, spells can come from either the Bard or Sorcerer/Wizard lists, taking whichever version is lower level if there is a disagreement.
If you are adding spells to the list of a different arcane caster, select your spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard list.
If you are adding spells to the list of a different divine caster, select your spells from the Druid list.



Wave Keeper-- Mystic champion of wind and wave, mastering the magic of the ocean.


New entry requirements: Knowledge (Arcana) 5 ranks, Knowledge (Nature) or Survival 5 ranks, Caster Level 5, Aquatic Spellcasting (Lords of Magic), Ship's Mage (Stormwreck) or Steam Magic (Stormwreck)
Advances spellcasting at all levels except 1 and 5.
New class feature at first level: Ocean Insight-- Every time you gain a level of this class, you select two spells described in Stormwreckand add them to your list of spells known.


If you are adding spells to the Cleric, Druid, Paladin, or Ranger lists, the spells must come from the matching class list.
If you are adding spells to the Bard list, spells can come from either the Bard or Sorcerer/Wizard lists, taking whichever version is lower level if there is a disagreement.
If you are adding spells to the list of a different arcane caster, select your spells from the Sorcerer/Wizard list.
If you are adding spells to the list of a different divine caster, select your spells from the Druid list.

Wave Master may be used a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier at second level, and at-will at 7th.
Wave Form lets you take the form of a Small Elemental at 4th, a Medium Elemental at 6th, a Large Elemental at 8th, at a Huge Elemental at 10th. It may be used for a total of 1 hour/day/class level, split up however you wist.
Call of the Abyss may be used a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier.

ddude987
2014-02-03, 06:10 PM
I like the changes. I've been working on something similar for my e8 campaign setting. One thing I'll ask is why not give shield specialization along with the +1 bab feats? Its an annoying feat tax that really doesn't do anything. Also instead of removing the feats like acrobatic stealthy etc, I found a page on minmax that edits them to make it useful, I'll post the link in a bit in case you're interested.

edit: Here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=473.msg2216#msg2216) it is! We've used this at my table in two different campaigns and everyone loved it both times.

toapat
2014-02-03, 06:46 PM
Magic


You cannot cast defensively.



Ban List

Spells

{table=head]Celerity, and derivatives|Player’s Handbook 2[/table]


1: The Site which must not be named lists Celerity as being on Bards, Sorcerers, and Wizard (and by extension, ranger and paladin) spell lists. Changing it to Bard and paladin would grant them their power without giving goodies to Sorc/Mage?. Ranger would be included if your ranger had casting

2: No Defensive casting hurts bard and paladin.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-03, 07:27 PM
One thing I'll ask is why not give shield specialization along with the +1 bab feats? Its an annoying feat tax that really doesn't do anything.
Mmm. I'll add it to the list of deletes, I think-- the free feats are for things that shouldn't require a feat, rather than those that don't really add anything. But good catch.


Also instead of removing the feats like acrobatic stealthy etc, I found a page on minmax that edits them to make it useful, I'll post the link in a bit in case you're interested.
Ehh... those look nice, but I don't really feel like it's worth it somehow. I'd rather not add a huge list of new skills...


1: The Site which must not be named lists Celerity as being on Bards, Sorcerers, and Wizard (and by extension, ranger and paladin) spell lists. Changing it to Bard and paladin would grant them their power without giving goodies to Sorc/Mage?. Ranger would be included if your ranger had casting
The class rewrites have all the power they need, and the Celerity line isn't good for anyone.


2: No Defensive casting hurts bard and paladin.
Whoops, didn't think of that. My bad.

Elfstone
2014-02-03, 07:39 PM
Why have linked classes instead of the PF merged classes? Any reason to scale TWF instead of just changing the feat to give offhand attacks whenever new mainhand attack is granted? Why no scaling weapon focus?

This is fairly similar to what my favorite set of houserules was but a little wordier and not as picky. Seems to work well enough. I'd still consider adding alot but for a basic approach I think it does the job. I find it interesting you've given up on the wizard/sorcerer despite having made fixes for them.

toapat
2014-02-03, 07:41 PM
The class rewrites have all the power they need, and the Celerity line isn't good for anyone.

The celerity line is good for Paladin and ranger, and possibly bard (i dont know that much about their spell list) (Absolutely correct about being broke as a joke for Sorc/Wizard), primarily because they have extremely limited uses for their swift actions, if any, otherwise.


I find it interesting you've given up on the wizard/sorcerer despite having made fixes for them.

i suspect Grod came to the conclusion i have, in that the Wizard, that is to say, the mage who can cast every spell known in the universe, is itself an inherently imbalanced concept because you are letting people play with too many options

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-03, 08:11 PM
Why have linked classes instead of the PF merged classes? Any reason to scale TWF instead of just changing the feat to give offhand attacks whenever new mainhand attack is granted? Why no scaling weapon focus?
Pathfinder's merged skills is certainly a more elegant way of doing things, but trying to cram that into the existing 3.5 framework is just messy. You have to deal with all sorts of items, spells, and PrCs that expect the skills to be separate. There are way too many to handle individually, and I'd rather not force DMs to try to interpret a set of guidelines if I don't have to.

That's one of the big rules here-- try to maintain compatibility with the original framework. No need to rewrite TWF when I can just grant the extra feats for free. Weapon Focus should go on the list of "free" feats the same way.


I find it interesting you've given up on the wizard/sorcerer despite having made fixes for them.
I do still like my fixes, but they don't really do enough-- the classes are still T2, and can still cover too many bases. Mostly, I just like results of the fixed-list caster project better. It's simpler to make characters, harder to mess 'em up, you wind up with more options in play, you've got better thematics...


The celerity line is good for Paladin and ranger, and possibly bard (i dont know that much about their spell list) (Absolutely correct about being broke as a joke for Sorc/Wizard), primarily because they have extremely limited uses for their swift actions, if any, otherwise.
I wasn't saying that they're not good spells, I'm saying that they're too good. From a game balance perspective, it's bad for any class to have 'em. Especially since I've pumped up said classes so much.

Elfstone
2014-02-03, 09:26 PM
Pathfinder's merged skills is certainly a more elegant way of doing things, but trying to cram that into the existing 3.5 framework is just messy. You have to deal with all sorts of items, spells, and PrCs that expect the skills to be separate. There are way too many to handle individually, and I'd rather not force DMs to try to interpret a set of guidelines if I don't have to.

That's one of the big rules here-- try to maintain compatibility with the original framework. No need to rewrite TWF when I can just grant the extra feats for free. Weapon Focus should go on the list of "free" feats the same way.

Perhaps. I will admit the houserules I use modify 3.5 to an extent that it should really be labeled 3.B for Brew but they do work. Instead of fixing classes there is alot more focus on altering blasty spells to be blasty and removing loopholes.

One thing I think you could use here is the alterations to ranged weapons. Mainly making them more useable and less shafted. An example from the rules I use. These are the changes to crossbows.

Crossbows can be made to utilize the user's Strength bonus by mechanisms that provide more resistance, and recoil when fired that requires a stronger user in order to utilize properly. This otherwise works just like composite bows, including the +75 (light) or +100 (heavy) gold per + of strength bonus on the 'pull'.

Crossbows, but not bows can ignore a number of points of armor or natural armor bonus equal to the strength bonus of the crossbow or the strength bonus of the wielder, whichever is the lower. Crossbows do not bypass AC that is not armor or natural armor, and if the target has less armor or natural armor than you have penetrating power the remainder has no effect. Yes, this does effectively give you Str and Dex to hit with a crossbow against armored foes.

Yours to decline(slightly more detailed than you might be looking for) or use.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-03, 10:27 PM
One thing I think you could use here is the alterations to ranged weapons. Mainly making them more useable and less shafted. An example from the rules I use. These are the changes to crossbows.
Mmm. Well, I've given ranged power attack and dex to AC, both major demands for archersm and freed up your first two feats by cutting point blank shot and giving precise shot for free. Crossbowmen get a free rapid reload, and crossbow sniper is rendered irrelevant. Do you think I still need more?

Oh, and I finished updating the Class section with links, tweaks, and blurbs.

Seerow
2014-02-03, 10:56 PM
Shields grant a miss chance equal of 5%, plus an additional 5% for every iterative attack you can make during a full attack. Tower shields grant an additional 10% miss chance, while bucklers grant 5% less miss chance than normal.


Does this mean that haste gives you bonus miss chance? And taking Improved Buckler Defense/Two Weapon Fighting? What about tons of natural attacks? Or is the intent to only get it from iterative attacks from BAB?

Speaking of two weapon fighting, do you need the prerequisites to get bonus feats from your table? Like does getting Imp/Greater TWFing for free mean you don't need an absurd amount of dex to be a TWFer?


Edit: Soulknife ACF is too harsh on TWFing. Even the soulknife itself only drops the enhancement bonus by 1 on each weapon if I remember correctly. Cutting them in half is just mean.

Edit2: Re: Binder
Does Improved Expel Vestige reduce the total penalty by 1/2 binder level, or the penalty per expulsion? Either way, the feat's pretty weak because even a bad binding doesn't hinder you much, if at all.

How does the d4 round cooldown interact with the feat that reduces the cooldown time by 1 round? Consider making it 1d4+1, with the feat removing the +1?

Binder feels the weakest in those first few levels. Though Expel Vestige as a class feature may make this not necessary. Hard to say without playing that way. I would however still consider making the second one come at level 2, with 1 more every 5 levels after this. This lets you have two at first level with a feat, and with the Improved Binding feat (+2 binder level) you can have effective binder level 22 at level 20 for an extra Binding there.

Edit3: Wow those are some huge buffs to the Wilder. Is there any reason to play a Psion when Wilder has similar powers known and Enervation has basically no drawback? Wilder was weak before, but in a few lines you introduced some really major buffs.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-03, 11:45 PM
Does this mean that haste gives you bonus miss chance? And taking Improved Buckler Defense/Two Weapon Fighting? What about tons of natural attacks? Or is the intent to only get it from iterative attacks from BAB?
Iterative attacks from BAB-- I'll clarify that.


Speaking of two weapon fighting, do you need the prerequisites to get bonus feats from your table? Like does getting Imp/Greater TWFing for free mean you don't need an absurd amount of dex to be a TWFer?
Nope, no prerequisites on the free feats. Again, will clarify.


Edit: Soulknife ACF is too harsh on TWFing. Even the soulknife itself only drops the enhancement bonus by 1 on each weapon if I remember correctly. Cutting them in half is just mean.
I can fix that.


Edit2: Re: Binder
Does Improved Expel Vestige reduce the total penalty by 1/2 binder level, or the penalty per expulsion? Either way, the feat's pretty weak because even a bad binding doesn't hinder you much, if at all.
It's mostly an RP thing, aye. Would it be worth it if it removed the penalty altogether?


How does the d4 round cooldown interact with the feat that reduces the cooldown time by 1 round? Consider making it 1d4+1, with the feat removing the +1?
If you get a result of 0 rounds, the ability is usable again that round, if you have the actions to do so.


Binder feels the weakest in those first few levels. Though Expel Vestige as a class feature may make this not necessary. Hard to say without playing that way. I would however still consider making the second one come at level 2, with 1 more every 5 levels after this. This lets you have two at first level with a feat, and with the Improved Binding feat (+2 binder level) you can have effective binder level 22 at level 20 for an extra Binding there.
I think Expel Vestige as a class feature makes it work. You're mostly suffering from versatility and slow recharge times, and I've helped both. Besides, you can get by for the first few levels with just a decent Str/Dex score and a martial weapon proficiency.


Edit3: Wow those are some huge buffs to the Wilder. Is there any reason to play a Psion when Wilder has similar powers known and Enervation has basically no drawback? Wilder was weak before, but in a few lines you introduced some really major buffs.
...for some reason, I thought the psion had about 2 powers known/level. I'm not dropping powers known, but I can weaken Enervation again.


Races are up.

toapat
2014-02-04, 12:17 AM
I'm saying that they're too good.

the reason Celerity is "too good" is because Wizard and Sorcerer trading out weak spellcasts for more powerful ones or their own safety well outstripped the capacity of anyone. it allowed them to take an already strong action economy, and make it significantly stronger. This is what really broke them, is that most of the people who need much more complex and diverse turns, IE, the melees, actually were stuck with basically Move > Attack (standard) > endturn.

For Paladin and Ranger (again i cant Yay/Nay Bard because i dont have sufficient grasp of the spell list to do so), Celerity and lesser allowed them to invest actions that they are incapable of using almost entirely (Paladin only when they have Battle Blessing (and detect evil in your homebrew), Ranger with a smidgen of spells of which the only notable is Swift Haste.) At least within the list on your paladin homebrew, Adding celerity is not an instant slot like with a vanilla paladin, you have options for spells

Seerow
2014-02-04, 12:22 AM
I really dig the races. Are those something you've posted in the past?

Half-Orc seems kind of weak compared to the others. The Orc Ferocity ability is really pretty meh. It will almost never trigger, and when it does it's nearly time to retire your character anyway, because you staying up and continuing to fight means you're still a target when any small number of damage will take you to dead dead. Working around that with something like making the Orc immune to all damage for that round is something you probably don't want to give out to a PC race at level 1 though.


I'm also not sure why you nerfed the Kobold's movement speed from 30ft down to 20ft. If you're standardizing the movement speeds based on size, then Dwarf should have been brought up and Halfling shouldn't have gotten the buff to 30ft. Kobold's slight build is cool and I love the ability to squeeze into smaller tunnels and get better hide checks, but is there any situation ever, even in your house rules, where a smaller weapon is more beneficial? If not, the line about being able to use a smaller weapon is extraneous and can just be removed.


On the topic of movement speed, while I like what you did with the Dwarf, could you maybe bump its move speed back up to 30, and if you really want to reflect its traditional slowness, reduce their run multiplier to x3 from x4? That way the Dwarf can keep up with anyone else in typical mobility, but isn't as fast in a sprint to get away. Keeps the theme while not being quite so crippling for a melee character.

Also, maybe switch the free Dwarf feat from Diehard to Endurance? Diehard as a similar problem to the Orc Special ability, while Endurance is very much in character for Dwarves, situationally useful, and a prerequisite to some feats that a Dwarf might be interested in (Offhand, Steadfast Determinination is a big one. But there's at least a dozen feats that use Endurance, and probably more prestige classes. Nothing that I'm aware of requires Diehard), thus saving them a feat tax.



It's mostly an RP thing, aye. Would it be worth it if it removed the penalty altogether?


It'd have a more demenstrable effect, but since the penalty you're offsetting is still mostly RP, how useful it is is going to vary wildly from group to group. I'd leave it with the penalty reduction as you have it, and tie some other perk to it to make it more appealing. (say let you expel two vestiges at once, or even just +1-3 uses of Expel Vestige, a la Extra Turning and the like).


If you get a result of 0 rounds, the ability is usable again that round, if you have the actions to do so.


Fair enough. I don't think most binders have the action economy breakage access to take advantage of that, but even having a 50% chance of your ability being available next round is a great deal.


...for some reason, I thought the psion had about 2 powers known/level. I'm not dropping powers known, but I can weaken Enervation again.


Yeah, that works. Leave Enervation as dazing, but keep your reduced power point loss from enervation maybe?

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-04, 12:46 AM
I really dig the races. Are those something you've posted in the past?
Nah, I just made 'em up tonight. I had an old version, but it wasn't this compact.


Half-Orc seems kind of weak compared to the others. The Orc Ferocity ability is really pretty meh. It will almost never trigger, and when it does it's nearly time to retire your character anyway, because you staying up and continuing to fight means you're still a target when any small number of damage will take you to dead dead. Working around that with something like making the Orc immune to all damage for that round is something you probably don't want to give out to a PC race at level 1 though.
My first thought had been rage (with a power-up if you're using barbarian rage; maybe powerful build), but that made it seem too much like a Barbarian shoe-in. What do you think? Any ideas?


I'm also not sure why you nerfed the Kobold's movement speed from 30ft down to 20ft. If you're standardizing the movement speeds based on size, then Dwarf should have been brought up and Halfling shouldn't have gotten the buff to 30ft. Kobold's slight build is cool and I love the ability to squeeze into smaller tunnels and get better hide checks, but is there any situation ever, even in your house rules, where a smaller weapon is more beneficial? If not, the line about being able to use a smaller weapon is extraneous and can just be removed.
Probably because I didn't notice that they had an unusually high movement speed for a small creature.:smallredface: Slight Build was coped word-for-word from a web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a).


On the topic of movement speed, while I like what you did with the Dwarf, could you maybe bump its move speed back up to 30, and if you really want to reflect its traditional slowness, reduce their run multiplier to x3 from x4? That way the Dwarf can keep up with anyone else in typical mobility, but isn't as fast in a sprint to get away. Keeps the theme while not being quite so crippling for a melee character.
Not a bad idea.


Also, maybe switch the free Dwarf feat from Diehard to Endurance?
Diehard seemed marginally more useful on its own, but good point about PrCs.


It'd have a more demenstrable effect, but since the penalty you're offsetting is still mostly RP, how useful it is is going to vary wildly from group to group. I'd leave it with the penalty reduction as you have it, and tie some other perk to it to make it more appealing. (say let you expel two vestiges at once, or even just +1-3 uses of Expel Vestige, a la Extra Turning and the like).
I can dig it.

Thanks for all the feedback.

Seerow
2014-02-04, 12:58 AM
My first thought had been rage (with a power-up if you're using barbarian rage; maybe powerful build), but that made it seem too much like a Barbarian shoe-in. What do you think? Any ideas?


I thought along the same lines, but agree with you that it's probably not a good way to go. They're already getting a strength bonus, pushing too much more in that direction is shoehorning the race.

I don't have any good ideas offhand, but I'll sleep on it and see if I have anything better tomorrow.


Probably because I didn't notice that they had an unusually high movement speed for a small creature. Slight Build was coped word-for-word from a web enhancement.


Fair enough. And I never saw that web enhancement before. Learn something new every day.

Though it seems like that ability in of itself was a copy/paste of powerful build, it's the only reason I can think of for the mention of weapons at all.


Diehard seemed marginally more useful on its own, but good point about PrCs.


Eh even outside of PrCs/Feats, I'd rather have Endurance (sleeping in armor isn't generally worth a feat, but I'll take it for free. Bonuses to con/fort checks are just gravy. Diehard is one of those deals where using it is more likely to get your character killed permanently, so actually makes you worse except in a last ditch effort to save the party from TPK that will happen roughly as often as never).


Thanks for all the feedback.


No problem. You have lots of fun stuff up here. While we don't always see eye to eye on class balance, I still enjoy reading your work.

TripleD
2014-02-04, 01:53 AM
I like that you made the Kobolds more playable (they're my favourite race but man, that -6 for +2 stung hard).

One thing though. I think you should specify that the craft bonus they get only applies to trapmaking. Also, I like that you payed homage to their mining roots with the pick and greatpick proficiency, but the Kobold's signature weapon is a spear. Which is weird because they kinda suck with them (they get a Dex bonus with a non-finesse-able weapon).

Maybe you could add that they treat Greatspears as martial weapons? Or allow them to use Dex with them somehow?

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-04, 11:54 AM
I like that you made the Kobolds more playable (they're my favourite race but man, that -6 for +2 stung hard).

One thing though. I think you should specify that the craft bonus they get only applies to trapmaking. Also, I like that you payed homage to their mining roots with the pick and greatpick proficiency, but the Kobold's signature weapon is a spear. Which is weird because they kinda suck with them (they get a Dex bonus with a non-finesse-able weapon).

Maybe you could add that they treat Greatspears as martial weapons? Or allow them to use Dex with them somehow?
Spears are already simple weapons, and without a strength penalty they no longer really suck with them. I can add Greatspears, though.

Also, dug through my 'brew to collect a bunch of new feats I'd made.

NotScaryBats
2014-02-04, 12:17 PM
I'm curious about:
"I believe in plot. Not necessarily DM-scripted plots, but the game should be about the heroes pursuing their goals, without meaningless distractions like random encounters. To that end, I don't particularly care about certain abilities like rope trick and teleport that help players dodge enemies when traveling. We only have so much game time, after all-- there's no need to waste it on meaningless, randomly-rolled fights."

Specifically, I think these spells really invalidate a lot of possible plots and game styles. It is difficult to race places when teleportation is available, especially combined with scrying. Allowing casual TP promotes strike force style play, I feel, where PCs power up, buff up, TP in, nuke everything, then TP out. With scrolls and stuff, this can come online very early.

Rope Trick is kinda like TP, but also invalidates "wandering treasure hunters" to some extent, because the intelligent thing to do is go into a dungeon, do 1 maybe 2 encounters, sling around all of your daily powers, then rest. RT makes it trivial to do this. If you have no time crunch, you can fairly easily turn into "SWAT Team Wizards" that are always operating at full capacity.

Do you not feel those are issues?

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-04, 01:35 PM
Specifically, I think these spells really invalidate a lot of possible plots and game styles.
I don't really want to get into a big conceptual argument about that sort of thing here, although I'd be happy to continue things through private messages. But what I will say is: "that's OK." The spells don't invalidate plots, they just force them to remain at low-levels where they belong. If you don't feel like you can come up with engaging plots when teleportation is a thing, then ban the spells-- or better yet, play E6 and run your low-level advantures forever.

Chaotic Chewy
2014-02-04, 01:53 PM
Grod

You mentioned that you where taking suggestions for uncommon races; Could you by chance find a Drow?

Seerow
2014-02-04, 02:18 PM
I'd like to see an LA+0 goliath. Given the current race template I could see it working something like:


Goliath

Medium
Base land speed of 30 feet
+2 Str
Racial Skills: Climb and Jump. Racial skills always count as class skills. When rolling a racial skill, roll twice and take the better result.
Weapon Familiarity: High Elves treat Longswords and Shortswords as simple weapons.
Powerful Build: The physical stature of goliath lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a goliath is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the goliath is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A goliath is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A goliath can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.


I would have liked to get the Mountain Movement ability in there (jump from standing as if you had a running start) and make Sense Motive a racial skill instead of Jump, but I was afraid Powerful Build alone was already pushing it for a LA+0.


Also I still have nothing regarding the Half-Orc. I'm thinking staying with the survivability theme would be best. Maybe Orc Ferocity instead of giving a diehard equivalent, gives you a second wind equivalent (ie spend a swift action, regain some HP and gain the benefit of fighting defensively for a round, once a day).

Eh... now that I think of it that sounds more like a dwarf thing than an Orc thing.

What if they gain something along the lines of Zhentarim Fighter benefits as a racial feature? They already get intimidate as a race skill, maybe let them intimidate an enemy as a swift action in combat?

NotScaryBats
2014-02-04, 02:26 PM
I don't really want to get into a big conceptual argument about that sort of thing here, although I'd be happy to continue things through private messages. But what I will say is: "that's OK." The spells don't invalidate plots, they just force them to remain at low-levels where they belong. If you don't feel like you can come up with engaging plots when teleportation is a thing, then ban the spells-- or better yet, play E6 and run your low-level advantures forever.

Oh, okay. You basically said 'these spells make random encounters not a thing, and I think random encounters are lame, so I don't care that these spells make random encounters not a thing'

I didn't realize you meant all that other stuff. In light of that, yeah those spells aren't really an issue.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-04, 03:16 PM
You mentioned that you where taking suggestions for uncommon races; Could you by chance find a Drow?
Yeah, they're probably iconic enough. +2 Int, racial skills in hide and intimidate, weapon familiarity in darkness as an SLA 1/day, a bonus to saves verses spells...


I would have liked to get the Mountain Movement ability in there (jump from standing as if you had a running start) and make Sense Motive a racial skill instead of Jump, but I was afraid Powerful Build alone was already pushing it for a LA+0.
Hey, give 'em Leap of the Heavens as a racial bonus feat. BOOM, LA+0 goliaths. (We're trading a useful active ability for an extra-useful passive; seems alright to me). Probably drop the weapon familiarity, to be a little safer.


What if they gain something along the lines of Zhentarim Fighter benefits as a racial feature? They already get intimidate as a race skill, maybe let them intimidate an enemy as a swift action in combat?
Hmm...


Oh, okay. You basically said 'these spells make random encounters not a thing, and I think random encounters are lame, so I don't care that these spells make random encounters not a thing'

I didn't realize you meant all that other stuff. In light of that, yeah those spells aren't really an issue.
I should probably edit the original post.

ngilop
2014-02-04, 08:02 PM
O M G!!!!!!

i love your Savage, its concept is something I had an idea about for a new barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15999548&postcount=902) a while back.

i wish i had known about this earlier it really could have helped my little brain :)

Grod_The_Giant
2014-02-08, 11:34 PM
O M G!!!!!!

i love your Savage, its concept is something I had an idea about for a new barbarian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=15999548&postcount=902) a while back.

i wish i had known about this earlier it really could have helped my little brain :)
Thanks. I'm pretty proud of him myself.

TheTeaMustFlow
2014-03-01, 05:37 PM
I like it. Just a couple of things:

You've banned the Endurance feat, but put it as the bonus feat for dwarves. Might I suggest either Improved Sunder or your Watch My Back feat as a replacement?

Furthermore, would it be possible for you to create Freedom, Tyranny, and Slaughter (from Unearthed Arcana, CG, LE, and CE respectively) versions of your (awesome) Paladin?

Grod_The_Giant
2014-03-01, 10:37 PM
I like it. Just a couple of things:

You've banned the Endurance feat, but put it as the bonus feat for dwarves. Might I suggest either Improved Sunder or your Watch My Back feat as a replacement?

Furthermore, would it be possible for you to create Freedom, Tyranny, and Slaughter (from Unearthed Arcana, CG, LE, and CE respectively) versions of your (awesome) Paladin?
a) D'oh! I've tried to steer away from non-core feats, but Improved Sunder, perhaps...
b) Mmm... maybe... if I have time...

infinitetech
2014-10-06, 03:07 AM
i understand the need for such a change, but you have practically made the options bland and non thinking it through player friendly, such in that there are now very few utility spells or actions that allow for custom responses to a situation... i meant great job, but ouch, so much gone, why cant we balance to the highest denominator for once, not "pull a 'merica" and "leave no dumb-ass behind"?

Grod_The_Giant
2014-10-09, 12:06 AM
i understand the need for such a change, but you have practically made the options bland and non thinking it through player friendly, such in that there are now very few utility spells or actions that allow for custom responses to a situation... i meant great job, but ouch, so much gone, why cant we balance to the highest denominator for once, not "pull a 'merica" and "leave no dumb-ass behind"?
Um, what? Spell lists retain a decent variety of utility spells, and there are options to pick up more; non-casters have been greatly boosted... I'm really not seeing what you're complaining about.

If you want an "everyone is tier 1" fix, have you seen my Myth (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=307285)?

infinitetech
2014-10-09, 12:39 AM
no, thats not it, its just that the vast majority of things you removed are ones that are used to further the quest, allow for a team to bypass a missing team member for the game or an item they need but didnt have the gear for, or other things that for small or new parties are the only way forward, why get rid of things when you can just change the usage a bit or give the npcs something to balance? there is already too many things being cut back in 5, why cut more here? sorry if i am too tired or was too tired, my insomnia has been beating me lately, so if im off my rocker more than usual thats probably why

Eldan
2014-10-09, 03:16 AM
The removed spells seem to be mostly those that are just too damn broad. Polymorph and Planar Ally give the caster access to the entire monster manual. Or rather, every monster manual ever printed.

One could easily homebrew a few spells with similar, but more limited effects. Polymorph spells with specific forms and stat bonuses are nice. Somethign like Bite of the Werebear is still strong, but the concept is balanceable.

For planar binding, one could easily have more specialized versions of that, too. "Bind Guardian", if you need an outsider to guard a location or item for you, as an example.

infinitetech
2014-10-09, 10:03 PM
The removed spells seem to be mostly those that are just too damn broad. Polymorph and Planar Ally give the caster access to the entire monster manual. Or rather, every monster manual ever printed.

One could easily homebrew a few spells with similar, but more limited effects. Polymorph spells with specific forms and stat bonuses are nice. Somethign like Bite of the Werebear is still strong, but the concept is balanceable.

For planar binding, one could easily have more specialized versions of that, too. "Bind Guardian", if you need an outsider to guard a location or item for you, as an example.
that makes sense, but isnt the point of an rpg to be the character's words are more important than the exact stats anyway? i mean i give players bonuses to things if they can explain a method thorougly or some times allow for better loot/crafting to be done

Eldan
2014-10-10, 01:37 AM
Opinions are divided on that. And, well, look at it like this.

Even if the words do most of the counting:
Words+good rules >> words+bad rules.

Or think of it like this: You have to equally creative players. One of them likes playing fighters, one likes casters.
The first has all his ideas to work from, plus a small handful of feats, his magic items and whatever equipment he can buy.
The second? All his ideas, a smaller handful of feats, his magic items, whatever equipment he can buy, plus a few dozen spells. And some of those spells just enable him to also use every ability in every monster manual ever.

Who has more potential?

It's just not fair. Look at the basic rules. A fighter, from levels 15-20 gains +6 to attack and three feats. That's all. A wizard? Gains a dozen abilities, each of which can do more than the entire fighter class. As written, a wizard can choose to just call something that's a better fighter than the party barbarian. Then, if they are bored, they can switch spells and become a better fighter themselves.

infinitetech
2014-10-10, 01:59 AM
i see your point, but the game was designed that way, it has been that way since odnd, the fighter class is supposed to be for new players, npcs, or a base for advanced classes/multi classes, literally it has been said by the makers(admittedly pre buyout)that the many casters are supposed to phase the fighter out late game, for as the truth stands knowledge is power and the pen is always mightier than the sword, the thing about fighters is that you cant catch them un prepared like you can wizards, and rouges specialize into assassins/super thieves so they avoid battle, with how the game is designed and the original way that magic loot got dispersed through quests they made fighters equal by means of basically spell giving items, but nowadays they have lost even that, in honesty they are the one class we dont need, just start a player as a master of arms or a duelist instead, or something like that, also if you want to balance wizards just bring back the nullifying rules :basically the more iron an enemy wears or the more magic they have on or the less available magic the more that your spell gets nerfed when cast, this way everyone can get the good items but they are somewhat more balanced, fighters take out the big guys in iron, wizards zap the guys in leather and rangers/thieves snipe the casters thus everyone has their weakness, sword>magic magic>range/stealth range/stealth>sword just like it used to be
but i digress, i guess its just that the fighter is supposed to be the big brute in the game and it never made sense to make him much else, aside from the only one with steady work per say due to being honest and strong (aka not sneaky or bookish), of course i started on odnd and have slowly gone through each version at some point, we wont talk about that space thing, nope wont talk, and i swear the dang company just wants this game to be an mmo where there is no customization, everyone is exactly the same no matter what they are, and there is no room to create anymore :'-( that's why i got on this home brew site, to try and get the game back to what its supposed to be, a door to imagination and fantasy

PairO'Dice Lost
2014-10-10, 02:16 AM
but i digress, i guess its just that the fighter is supposed to be the big brute in the game and it never made sense to make him much else,

[...]

in honesty they are the one class we dont need, just start a player as a master of arms or a duelist instead

The fighter is supposed to be a master tactician, inspiring leader, expert soldier, master of advanced weaponry, and just all-around effective warrior--including the specalizations like duelist/weaponmaster/archer/etc., just as a wizard gets to be a blaster/necromancer/summoner/etc.--as evidenced by his mook-slaying class feature in BECMI, his army leadership and domain management class features in 1e, his weapon specialization class feature in 2e, and his tons of feats in 3e. The fact that his mechanics haven't quite lived up to the archetype is a reason to change the mechanics to suit, not to declare that he's been best at the Big Stupid Brute role and so everything else about him should be thrown out and the resulting brutish class thrown out as being superfluous.

On the subject of the fighter being an NPC class that's supposed to get overshadowed in the late game, that's not true in the slightest. Many of the famous early PCs were fighters, and very effective ones at that (see: Robilar clearing out the Tomb of Horrors solo thanks to his disposable minions loyal followers), and while they did get overshadowed at higher levels the trend throughout AD&D was always to give them more perks to prevent that because it was unintentional and not really noticed until they played a lot at high levels.

On the subject of the fighter being "the new guy class," that was only ever true in the B/X and early 1e days. The fighter has been increasing in complexity since then at the same time that other "newbie classes" were introduced; by the end of 3e, the fighter had actually gotten to be a fairly complex class due to all the build choices that he needed to make (much more so than the casters who can just swap out poor spell choices the next day) so the barbarian was actually the Big Stupid Brute For Newbies class, while new caster classes like the warlock and warmage were much more newbie-friendly ("Step 1: you get everything you really need automatically, so pick whatever Advanced Learning spells or invocations that look cool. Step 2: Blow **** up and have fun. Step 3: There is no step 3."). There should be both simple and advanced classes for both magic and martial character archetypes, so everyone can have fun with the theme and level of complexity that they like best.

Eldan
2014-10-10, 02:18 AM
It's pitifully easy to catch a fighter unaware. He was what against ambushes, maybe a spot check? Spot and listen, if he has no other skillpoints whatsoever? A wizard can be invisible from level 3. Or teleport, on later levels. Or just sit in a paralell dimension where the fighter can never touch him. The rogue? Can never hide as well as the wizard.

Anyway. That's not the point. A lot of people have seen those points about "wizards should be better" and you know what? We think that shouldn't be the case. This game gives us options to play what we want, so we should be able to play what we want without feeling worthless.

There are levels in this game. The game claims that tehy are an indicator of power. So a level 10 fighter should be equal in power to a level 10 wizard.

If one wants to have wizards be infinitely more powerful than fighters, there's a solution to that, I've proposed it before.

Split the game into tiers, as 4E proposed.
On the heroic tier, levels 1-5 or so, fighter is a class, wizard isn't. On higher levels, you phase out fighters and bring in wizards. Fighter players can play, I don't know, demigods.

Think of it as fiction. You don't pair off the local town guard with the god Odin and then expect them to contribute equally to the adventure. Equally, you don't pair off Harry Potter in his first year with Cu Chullain or Herakles. The game should be able to put equally powerful people together at the same level. As it stands, it doesn't, so a lot of people think this should be corrected.

infinitetech
2014-10-10, 02:56 AM
the fighter was only a fill stop as far as a face goes, was never supposed to be his role outside of prestiging in to a general or taction, if you want a melee user to stay on par they need to either get better equipment such as magic swords, or get advanced, and i mean truly advanced, training, a straight up every day sword wielder would Never compare to pretty much any other class there is, what i meant by you wont catch them off guard is they have a sword where casters need to prep/cast/stuff, and high level rouges can hide better than invis, invis is detectable through tons of enemy abilities, a ridiculous hide check however cant be hahaha, i do think that yes, they need to make the fighters start at at least lvl 5 equivalent if they are to remain usable, that or force them to choose a prestige early/give it as a feature, as it sits lore wise, logic wise, or any wise they should not be as they are, also, if you are talking about the minion build then you are truly referencing what was errata-ed into the royal npc class, the barbarian is only the slightest bit better due to their rage ability, otherwise and including that they are basically the squishier but stronger version of warriors, also in your Potter example, Draco is basically his equal at that point yes, weaker even according to some? yet he can cast avadacadavra at will if he so chose to/needed to or any number of nasty things his father taught him, if he wanted to he could wipe the whole school out, honestly, Hercules would die in like 3 sec(which is half a round or just his move action) and yes, Gygax as well as several others have indeed said it was a "protect the wizard until he needs you as a sacrifice or diversion" class, hell, the monk is more sensible, they at least can achieve some sort of spiritual boost that makes them above human, fighters are literally the only class the game doesn't specifically say at any point is better than a commoner aside from basic sword training and basic armor training, all others say somewhere that they are at a level unobtainable by commoners, and besides, with those minions, what class are they? commoner, guardsmen, hunter, cut purse, or royal, all npcs, and the only one who is the same as the pc class is guardsmen whom is actually a bit better than fighter, ranger is way better than hunter, bard way better than commoner, enchantress way better than royal, rouge way better than cut purse only the artisan class may be better than pc classes, and only in their trade of choice, but i am sorry grod the giant, this has become infighting, i will try not to keep going,

PairO'Dice Lost
2014-10-10, 03:37 AM
First off: Between the backslash and Shift keys on your keyboard, you'll find an Enter key. Might want to consider using it. :smallwink:

That said:


the fighter was only a fill stop as far as a face goes, was never supposed to be his role outside of prestiging in to a general or taction, if you want a melee user to stay on par they need to either get better equipment such as magic swords, or get advanced, and i mean truly advanced, training, a straight up every day sword wielder would Never compare to pretty much any other class there is,

But that's the point: the fighter is supposed to have "advanced, truly advanced" training. There are bunches of fighting style, tactical, and leader-y feats in the system, the fighter gets more of them than anyone else, and by the standards of mere mortals a fighter is a walking talking blender of doom at the head of an army. That's what the fighter is, and was always, intended to be. It just so happens that high-level full casters are just as far above high-level fighters as high-level fighters are above normal people, so his face-y-ness and combat prowess look pathetic by comparison. Again: fix the lackluster mechanics to match the heroic archetype so martial types are on par with casters at low, mid, and high levels, don't dismiss the fighter as a thug because the mechanics fell short of the intended outcome.


what i meant by you wont catch them off guard is they have a sword where casters need to prep/cast/stuff, and high level rouges can hide better than invis, invis is detectable through tons of enemy abilities, a ridiculous hide check however cant be hahaha,

Without Darkstalker, rogues can be automatically detected with scent, blindsense, blindsight, tremorsense, lifesense, mindsight, and a plethora of other special senses; with Darkstalker, a rogue can hide from some of those but still isn't as un-findable as you're making him out to be. Not to mention the need for Hide in Plain Sight to let him actually use stealth most of the time. To build a rogue that can actually, truly, reliably conceal himself from everything is doable but requires focusing the majority of build resources on it and therefore making you less effective at anything else. And even so, at high levels a caster can do it better with much less resource investment (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-arcane--55/superior-invisibility--517/) against the majority of the opposition.

JonathonWilder
2014-10-10, 07:33 AM
i understand the need for such a change, but you have practically made the options bland and non thinking it through player friendly, such in that there are now very few utility spells or actions that allow for custom responses to a situation... i meant great job, but ouch, so much gone, why cant we balance to the highest denominator for once, not "pull a 'merica" and "leave no dumb-ass behind"?
I apologize, but I'm going to have to disagree.

Because of Grod's work spellcasting is now far more interesting, with unique and flavorful classes with abilities unlike anything a straight wizard could offer. Heck, I would want to play a Beguiler. Mage of the Unseen Hand, Seer, or Warmage (in that order) any day over an uninteresting and boring wizard.

Clerics, with the fact much of their spellcasting now comes from taking multiple domains from their deity it allows for more uniqueness. Ever since 3.0 Clerics in my eyes have been bland and boring, domains baringly making a different in telling apart one who worships a deity of war and one who worships a deity of love. It is one of the things I miss about AD&D is the versatility clerics have by way of specially priests. Grod took a step in the right direction by limiting general spellcasting and offering greater access to domains.

Druids, they feel more distinctive because of their Druidic Orders ability and it also offers the means of having speak with animals at first level and letting me choose whether or not I want a druid with any sort of connection elementals. That and lets be honest the druid could do far too much, with an impressive spell list, wildshaping, and animal compantion all rolled into one.

I say, lets have a D&D game where players don't think wizards have all the answers and we get to pick casters with a greater variety of class abilities and flavor. Give me the ability to alter my appearance and form, hide myself from divination, lie in a zone of truth, keep mysel hidden from magical detection, to Bluff Death, to show the power of tricksters, and so many other awesome abilities with the Beguiler then have me play a boring old Wizard.

So yah, I disagree

Grod_The_Giant
2014-10-10, 10:16 AM
OK, OP checking in here... can we not turn this thread into a rehash of the standard wizard-verses-fighter arguments? I'm sure we've all read them a dozen times by now, and to be honest, they're not really relevant here. I'd be happy to hear specific criticisms, infinitetech, but the overall philosophy here is set.

JonathonWilder, thanks for your kind words.

JonathonWilder
2014-10-10, 10:32 AM
JonathonWilder, thanks for your kind words.
You're welcome.

Also I edited my post, seems there was a lot of mistakes and typos here and there.

infinitetech
2014-10-10, 11:56 AM
sorry, and i have said that i like alot of the edits... its just that some of the best storyline powers are gone with this, id have prefered some way to boost the others instead of cut back on the class that is supposed to be "Mr. utility", however i do rather enjoy the new things that you added to some classes, and i hope you keep up the good work

JonathonWilder
2014-10-10, 12:14 PM
sorry, and i have said that i like alot of the edits... its just that some of the best storyline powers are gone with this, id have prefered some way to boost the others instead of cut back on the class that is supposed to be "Mr. utility", however i do rather enjoy the new things that you added to some classes, and i hope you keep up the good work

The problem is, that you cannot boost the lower tier classes to line up with tier 2 or 1 classes without giving them spells. It is far easier and more sensible to bring tier 1 and 2 classes down to tier 3.

Please explain what "storyline powers " have been lost and why they are necessary

infinitetech
2014-10-10, 01:06 PM
if we were to give them moves much like the monk set but with weapons then they would actually jump almost a whole teir, flurry of blades? pressure point stab? all sorts of these moves exist irl, and things that let you edit parts of the world or bring in utility help are storyline spells, they are the things that help a story move along, help get what was accidentally forgotten, help all of the party be able to use good ideas, so long as people work together anyway (and many of these were removed as if DMs cant say no as their instructions tell them to), or replace a downed team member so they can survive to bring them back

Grod_The_Giant
2014-10-10, 02:03 PM
sorry, and i have said that i like alot of the edits... its just that some of the best storyline powers are gone with this, id have prefered some way to boost the others instead of cut back on the class that is supposed to be "Mr. utility", however i do rather enjoy the new things that you added to some classes, and i hope you keep up the good work
What sort of powers, specifically, are you talking about here?


if we were to give them moves much like the monk set but with weapons then they would actually jump almost a whole teir, flurry of blades? pressure point stab? all sorts of these moves exist irl, and things that let you edit parts of the world or bring in utility help are storyline spells, they are the things that help a story move along, help get what was accidentally forgotten, help all of the party be able to use good ideas, so long as people work together anyway (and many of these were removed as if DMs cant say no as their instructions tell them to), or replace a downed team member so they can survive to bring them back
The revised low-tier classes DO get special moves. The Barbarian gets Brute Powers, the Fighter gets Aspect Abilities (and all kinds of bonus feat goodness), and the Monk has officially been replaced by Unarmed Swordsage. They also all get non-combat special things, albeit often skill-based bonuses.

infinitetech
2014-10-10, 03:11 PM
i saw those, i just meant a few "you get these at lvl x" type insta boosts to keep them on par, i hadnt noticed the monk tho, the powers i specified in my post before this one, things like wishes, summons, and other up to the player group and dm type spells, there is a reason most of those require exp and gold, to make them hard to do but worth it

Grod_The_Giant
2014-10-10, 03:22 PM
i saw those, i just meant a few "you get these at lvl x" type insta boosts to keep them on par, i hadnt noticed the monk tho, the powers i specified in my post before this one, things like wishes, summons, and other up to the player group and dm type spells, there is a reason most of those require exp and gold, to make them hard to do but worth it
Wish and Miracle shouldn't be things that are commonly available. A wish should be special, not something any 17th-level wizard can pass out like candy. As for summons... the spells as written are bad design all around. Not only do they offer way too much variety for the investment, not only to they break action economy, but they're clunky-- they make the summoner's turn take up way more time than anyone else's, and require you to either carry a binder of extra character sheets or stop in the middle of a fight to look things up. The Conjurer and Druid still get to play the summoning game, don't get me wrong, but they have to do so via class features that are easier to balance.

nonsi
2014-10-10, 04:26 PM
Split the game into tiers, as 4E proposed.
On the heroic tier, levels 1-5 or so, fighter is a class, wizard isn't. On higher levels, you phase out fighters and bring in wizards. Fighter players can play, I don't know, demigods.

Think of it as fiction. You don't pair off the local town guard with the god Odin and then expect them to contribute equally to the adventure. Equally, you don't pair off Harry Potter in his first year with Cu Chullain or Herakles.


I strongly object this approach.
The fact that WotC designers have failed miserably in finding a balancing point between melees and spellcasters (actually, in hind sight, all have failed till 3.5e (haven't taken a deep enough dive into later versions to make that claim yet)) doesn't mean we should accept it.
I tend to see the whole motivation of homebrewing forums in the first place, in wanting to reach that balance.





The game should be able to put equally powerful people together at the same level. As it stands, it doesn't, so a lot of people think this should be corrected.


Different sets of abilities make you powerful in different scenarios.
Therefore, I think a more worthy goal would be to make equally enjoyable classes, with a more or less equal amount of things to contribute in a rich and dynamic RPG, which is comprised of many elements - hack&slash being just one of them.
I maybe deluding myself, but I believe that in my overhaul codex I've managed to offer just that - classes that allow you to fulfill your character vision without ever feeling left behind and without outshining others at their comfort zone.

Yes - one vs. the other at close range, a mage shouldn't have a reasonable chance of emerging the victor vs. an equally experienced man of war.
And yes - this doesn't have to conflict with mages being T2 and men of war being T3.

As for NPC classes - that's just laziness.
If you deem a class worthy only for an NPC, then either it shouldn't exist or you didn't put enough thought into it.

infinitetech
2014-10-11, 12:15 AM
you cant just "give out wishes" they cost a ****e ton of exp and gold, trust me, that's not easy to repair and makes them much weaker than the team if they keep this up, and how about making it so that you have to buy each monster type you wish to have access to? that way its a smaller list and the class who is supposed to learn all spells doesn't get jipped of one of the coolest, that would make it so they have to find (with random roll) each type they could try and summon(also make a rule that they need a sheet for each summon)or make it so that each summon is its own spell, either way they need to prepare that version of the spell in the rest time until they take a late level feat perhaps

also technically, the battle pecking order should be: melee<ranged, ranged<caster, caster<melee, sneak can kill/be killed by all, even if this isnt adhered to and as far as items go... "Magic must defeat magic!... And one more thing... *finger chops your head* " unless you have something made of mage bane or witch steel lol... or void glass *shudder*

Grod_The_Giant
2014-10-11, 10:17 AM
you cant just "give out wishes" they cost a ****e ton of exp and gold
Experience is a river-- if you drop behind you'll soon catch up. And neither spell has a gold cost. Hell, miracle can give you access to most any spell in the game without even an XP cost.


and how about making it so that you have to buy each monster type you wish to have access to? that way its a smaller list and the class who is supposed to learn all spells doesn't get jipped of one of the coolest, that would make it so they have to find (with random roll) each type they could try and summon(also make a rule that they need a sheet for each summon)or make it so that each summon is its own spell, either way they need to prepare that version of the spell in the rest time until they take a late level feat perhaps
There's your problem. "The class that knows all the spells" is a dangerous design goal, and in practice... well, look at the classes that can learn all the spells. Wizard, Cleric, Archivist, StP Erudite... notice how they're all tier 1? Avoiding the "class that knows all the spells" was one of the prime goals of this rewrite. Look at the Conjurer for a balanced summoner.

infinitetech
2014-10-11, 02:01 PM
miracle used to have rules that made it so you had to complete a divine favor afterwards or risk a gods wrath, i disagree on xp, true you may be unable to stay more than like 3 lvls or so behind, but that is still a very long way behind, and its not like they will stop using the spells, though if you don't think that is enough then you could implement an angry planar creature just like the god thing and exp on the miracle, and one way i found to balance the wiz when we tried to lessen him instead of boost others was the multiple spells for each sub spell and we tried restricting the spell slots they got but could never choose a good number, also id say sorcerer is teir 1 wiz is more teir 2 due to lack of casts and needing to prep before hand the right things

Amechra
2014-10-11, 02:10 PM
I could build you a Wizard, using just official materials, who can pretty much cast their spells at-will. And who can, more or less, be a Spontaneous caster. It's not even that hard.

Also, if you look at the mathematics of XP rewards per encounter... you can usually catch up in one or two fights.

But anyway... I like this work; it's quite nice. I kinda want to see someone who preps their spells from a spellbook, and who gets an "improved" version of Advanced Learning that lets them, I dunno, swap out Advanced Learning spells 1/day or something.

But I acknowledge that that would be quite hard to balance.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-10-11, 02:19 PM
I could build you a Wizard, using just official materials, who can pretty much cast their spells at-will. And who can, more or less, be a Spontaneous caster. It's not even that hard.
This one. And that trickery aside, Tier 1 doesn't mean power; it means OPTIONS. Even without trickery, the wizard can run away and come back tomorrow with the exact spells for the job. But again, a tier argument is not the function of this thread. One of my major philosophies here was fixed-list casters only--


But anyway... I like this work; it's quite nice. I kinda want to see someone who preps their spells from a spellbook, and who gets an "improved" version of Advanced Learning that lets them, I dunno, swap out Advanced Learning spells 1/day or something.

But I acknowledge that that would be quite hard to balance.
The closest I've got is the Ritualist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?325646-The-Ritualist-A-tier-3-crafter-spellbook-user-maybe-%283-5-PEACH%29), who can sort of cast any spell he wants... but who takes a long time to do it, and caps at 7th level spells.

infinitetech
2014-10-11, 02:28 PM
you don't "catch up", you get back to where you were, but everyone else is usually almost a whole dungeon ahead, unless the dm is making the encounters as EXP super packed as possible, in which case you are behind half a dungeons worth, (dont forget, they keep moving forward too, like the river analogy, if you get pulled behind by a rock you will keep moving forward but you will never catch back up without swimming yourself [single player and gm missions]) if you want i guess you could increase the costs more, also, i like the idea of switching the use as a feat, but to make it more costly how about that that is a meta magic, make switch take a higher slot and make changes to which spell it is entirely take an even higher one, these might stack in some scenarios like swapping a cone of could for a summon fire mesphit, this makes the stuff severally limited, especially combined with less spell slots

Amechra
2014-10-11, 03:16 PM
No, by RAW you do catch up to where your friends are currently. You get more XP from the same fights, after all, and require less XP to level up.

And by "where they are currently", I mean you end up with the same XP total. It takes actual effort to stay behind everyone else by more than 2 levels.

This is, of course, barring the fact that a properly played Wizard can solo challenges with a CR 8 higher than their level.

Anyway...

I remember taking a look at your Ritualist and feeling a bit... mixed about the whole deal. Part of me was thinking something like the Craft Grimoire (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2410.0) feature from this Wizard rework.

Basically, the class can craft a book called a Grimoire that can contain X many spells; you can cast any spell in the Grimoire as if it were on your spell list, but A) they add the Grimoire as a focus component and B) they use a spell slot 3 levels higher than their "actual" level.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-08, 11:39 AM
I've updated the races to a more unified format, as well as doing some minor tweaking and changes. (Everyone now has a choice of racial bonus feats, and everyone gets some weapon familiarity)


I kinda want to see someone who preps their spells from a spellbook, and who gets an "improved" version of Advanced Learning that lets them, I dunno, swap out Advanced Learning spells 1/day or something.

But I acknowledge that that would be quite hard to balance.
You might be able to do, oh, a list twice as long as the spontaneous casters here (closer to 20 spells known/level) with a few extra (lower-level) Advanced Learnings, and prepare from that list. That would be... possible to balance, as long as you were careful when writing said list. The bigger danger is that I feel like it would step on other casters' toes.


Basically, the class can craft a book called a Grimoire that can contain X many spells; you can cast any spell in the Grimoire as if it were on your spell list, but A) they add the Grimoire as a focus component and B) they use a spell slot 3 levels higher than their "actual" level.
It sounds kind of like the focus item from my Ritualist? It's a neat idea, certainly.

Keledrath
2015-01-08, 12:27 PM
So, what are your thoughts on mixing your rewrite with PF? I'm setting up a list of modifications I'm going to use for my games, and so far I have
PFSRD (yes, including all DSP and most other third party)
Giants and Graveyards. Overlap = merge, so Paladins get the benefits of both PF Paladin with archetypes and all, then the benefits of G&G on top of that (your paladin is one of my favorites)
Rules as Common Sense Dictates (at least, the ones I agree with)

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-08, 01:40 PM
So, what are your thoughts on mixing your rewrite with PF? I'm setting up a list of modifications I'm going to use for my games, and so far I have
PFSRD (yes, including all DSP and most other third party)
Giants and Graveyards. Overlap = merge, so Paladins get the benefits of both PF Paladin with archetypes and all, then the benefits of G&G on top of that (your paladin is one of my favorites)
Rules as Common Sense Dictates (at least, the ones I agree with)
Since PF has all the same problems as 3.5, most things I did here should still work.

You'd probably want to fiddle with the feats and grant more automatic updates, since I understand that PF chopped up a lot of feats.
Skills, again, would take some tweaking-- making sure the linked skills were still appropriate and all.
Classes... the classes should work with no more than the usual updates to skill lists and bonus feats. I wouldn't merge them like you're proposing-- that seems like a good way to get characters with lots of redundant abilities, as well as being a power boost that frankly isn't needed. I'd also be really careful about what new classes you allow. G&G is a class-based fix at its core, after all. Replacing the wizard doesn't do much if you can pick up an Alchemist instead, you know? I wouldn't allow anything new that's outside the T3/T4-with-houserules-to-boost-it range.

ace rooster
2015-01-09, 07:46 AM
It looks to me like archery got a little scary. A composite longbow in the hands of a decent str and dex character can be throwing out 4 attacks of d8 +10 damage a round at level 6 easy, with a good chance to hit at 600ft (distance bow). Against easy targets power attack can double that damage. I would limit the dex to damage to the first range increment, or possibly 30ft.

I think you are assuming that the dps of an archer should be able to match the dps of a melee, but in a party with some maturity this is not the case. Melee can be far more powerful and still be balanced (against archers), simply because of the extra risk involved in being in melee. The archer has to be prepared to accept that many encounters will be over too fast for them to be relevant (though readied actions to disrupt any spellcasters are always useful), and the melee has to accept that sometimes approaching the enemy is simply a bad idea (and they will just have to use a bow, which they will be ok with anyway), which is why some maturity is required.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-09, 11:36 AM
I think you are assuming that the dps of an archer should be able to match the dps of a melee, but in a party with some maturity this is not the case. Melee can be far more powerful and still be balanced (against archers), simply because of the extra risk involved in being in melee. The archer has to be prepared to accept that many encounters will be over too fast for them to be relevant (though readied actions to disrupt any spellcasters are always useful), and the melee has to accept that sometimes approaching the enemy is simply a bad idea (and they will just have to use a bow, which they will be ok with anyway), which is why some maturity is required.

I'm sure that was the designer's reasoning, too. In practice, it's problematic for, oh, several reasons:
No player should be forced to sit out any significant proportion of encounters-- especially not ones that take as long as combat generally does. So "archers to be prepared to accept that many encounters will be over too fast for them to be relevant" is a poor design strategy. Partly because of this,
Encounters almost never begin at high range increments. Whether it's because the party is indoors, being ambushed, the DM uses a battlemap, or just doesn't want melee (including his melee monsters!) to be bored, I've almost never seen a fight begin more than, oh, two hundred feet away. (And most of those were special circumstances, like a ship-to-ship battle with the party manning catapults). If the party does manage to find foes from a thousand feet away, they deserve a few rounds of archer-ing.
Archery is still vulnerable to things like DR and weather manipulation.


I'll accept that you have a point with the potential for many attacks at Str+Dex. I'm not sure how much of an issue it will be, though-- I'll throw that question open to the floor. And as a potential answer, how about if composite bows increase range, rather than letting you add some of your Strength?

ace rooster
2015-01-09, 07:34 PM
I'm sure that was the designer's reasoning, too. In practice, it's problematic for, oh, several reasons:
No player should be forced to sit out any significant proportion of encounters-- especially not ones that take as long as combat generally does. So "archers to be prepared to accept that many encounters will be over too fast for them to be relevant" is a poor design strategy. Partly because of this,
Encounters almost never begin at high range increments. Whether it's because the party is indoors, being ambushed, the DM uses a battlemap, or just doesn't want melee (including his melee monsters!) to be bored, I've almost never seen a fight begin more than, oh, two hundred feet away. (And most of those were special circumstances, like a ship-to-ship battle with the party manning catapults). If the party does manage to find foes from a thousand feet away, they deserve a few rounds of archer-ing.
Archery is still vulnerable to things like DR and weather manipulation.


I'll accept that you have a point with the potential for many attacks at Str+Dex. I'm not sure how much of an issue it will be, though-- I'll throw that question open to the floor. And as a potential answer, how about if composite bows increase range, rather than letting you add some of your Strength?

If a DM is going to only use close range encounters against single enemies that are ok with you engaging them in melee then the only consideration is dps, and so if archery is lower in those terms then it is strictly worse. If there is some variety in the type and setting of combats though archery can start to shine, and does not have to match melee in terms of dps to do it. The famous example is tuckers kobolds, who really do not need to be made more lethal. The important consideration is that ranged combat only requires some way of avoiding melee, and not massive distances. Difficult terrain is a big one, but simply being faster than your enemy is enough in open terrain.

I agree that encounters that a player cannot interact with at all are bad, but if a player builds a character that cannot combat opponents fighting with a decent amount of sense at all, then I regard that as their own fault. Goblins on wolves with crossbows that withdraw when engaged in melee should not be an unexpected problem, nor should a meat grinder monster that can only move 10ft per round (Any PC who walks up to it deserves what they get). Likewise inclement weather or the sun setting should not cripple a build.

For the DM to do this requires players who won't throw their toys out of the pram when their one trick won't work, which I admit is not always realistic, but this is not a system problem. 3.5 is a rich system, and has many tactical options that are a bad idea most of the time, but this is why I like it. I find the game to be most enjoyable when I end up using some of those options because circumstances call for it, rather than something I built the character to be good at it. I have played melee machines where the best decision I ever made was realising that our opponent had no answer to us simply keeping our distance, and I have played an archer who at one point rugby tackled a caster (Dm did not expect that one, got to love the lack of AoOs from unarmed opponents). Ranged combat has to be suboptimal in terms of damage output, because it is simply more versatile.

I think my biggest worry is that this benefits large numbers of mooks with ranged weapons far more than PCs (elite array goblins with crossbows deal almost double damage), which degrades mundane character's relative power further compared to casters. Increased power options for mid to high level archers I could get behind, but a blanket improvement to the power of ranged combat strikes me as misplaced. I hope that clarrifies.

Grod_The_Giant
2015-01-09, 09:34 PM
For the DM to do this requires players who won't throw their toys out of the pram when their one trick won't work
It's not an issue of immature players, it's more a sense of "these people have taken the time out of their busy lives to participate in my game. We're only here for a few hours. Even if s/he doesn't mind, it feels rude for me, as the DM, to spend an hour on an encounter they can't help with.


I think my biggest worry is that this benefits large numbers of mooks with ranged weapons far more than PCs (elite array goblins with crossbows deal almost double damage), which degrades mundane character's relative power further compared to casters. Increased power options for mid to high level archers I could get behind, but a blanket improvement to the power of ranged combat strikes me as misplaced. I hope that clarrifies.
One big thing I was trying to do with the general feat/combat rules was to make all combat options viable, even without a real investment. The barbarian won't be as good an archer as the ranger, but he's not going to be useless if he needs to pull out a bow for some reason. Massed mooks may well benefit from the rules changes, but... with the power boost from the classes, I think the players still come out well ahead.

MeimuHakurei
2018-04-06, 02:45 AM
Small wording issue: You replace the Greatclub with a Greathammer with "identical stats to the Greataxe". You should probably specify it deals bludgeoning damage because with this way of putting it, it would deal slashing damage (which I think is not your intent).

VladtheLad
2019-01-08, 02:44 PM
Are your melee homebrew warriors like fighter, barbarian and paladin balanced against the warblade and the crusader?

From a cursory reading the totally homebrewed classes seem stronger than the ToB classes (including your buffs to the ToB), then again maybe it is that I haven't used ToB for like a decade and have forgotten how strong it is.
Also do you use any fixes for the ToB maneuvers?