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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other [Race] Ogre Changeling, P.E.A.C.H.



Mighty_Chicken
2014-02-07, 02:17 PM
I'm trying to come up with races that, gameplay wise, aren't just a number of small and/or rarely used numerical bonuses. I want races that play differently, and of course, according to its fluff and flavor.

Also I wanted a gritty mix of the little I know of European, Japanese and Brazilian folklore regarding their changelings, ogres, oni and anhangás.

The place where help is mostly needed is to figure out if the race is balanced. I'm afraid the dual size mechanic (Medium/Large) might be game breaking, not to mention the Dual Path racial feat...

This race is intended to be balanced with the races of a setting where most of them are supposedly LA+2 or high LA+1 races. Just so you can compare, that's how humans and dwarves look like in the setting (Tormenta RPG):


Humans:
+2 to two abilities at player's choice
two additional feats at first level
+4 skill points at first level, +1 every level, gets to choose 2 skills as class skills

Dwarves:
+4 Con, +2 Wis, -2 Dex
Base speed 6m (unaffected by armor, etc)
Darkvision 60ft
+4 in saves vs poison and magic
All hammers and axes are simple weapons
+4 AC vs Large or bigger foes
+2 in all Int and Wis skill tests related to stones





Ogre Changelings

The ogres from traditional folklore are perverted and violent tyrants. They weren't necessarily stupid, or giant; they just had a tendency to be brutal, ugly, powerful (in either the physical, political or magical sense) and above all, inhuman. Ogres would scare people with their might, their nasty cannibal habits, their curses or their insane behavior.

Ogre changelings begin their lives when an ogre, ogre changeling or witch switches a human newborn by them. These creatures may have any reason to do something to cruel; but the changeling never knows why it happened, or what would be the destiny of the stolen baby. They do, however, grow up knowing exactly what they are. They don't remember who or what their biological parents are, but even in the cradle or while sucking their adoptive mother's breast, they are already almost as intelligent as they will be as adults, and they know they are ogre changelings, how their powers work, how do other ogre changelings look like, and know things about the world that only an experienced adult should know.

Ogre changelings generally grow up despising their human parents, relatives and neighbors; otherwise, they'll hate them. But most ogre changelings do not feel sorry for themselves; they look almost exactly as the human child would look if had the chance to grow up normally, and feel like predators amidst their prey. They might cause infighting and chaos in their families in their childhoods and cause accidents among their coworkers. Even when they're not poised to murder and destroy, ogres are sadic and have a hard time empathizing for humans. They usually think human suffering is fun, and most of them have many memories of ogres torturing humans - they just don't know whom those memories belong to.

Nature's call is strong. Though they are capable of it, most ogre changelings will not keep their disguise forever. Someday, someone will sum one and one and figure out who poisons holiday's supper every year. Someone might figure the monster who chases travelers in the road and howls to the dark sky at moonless nights lives in the village. Someone will remember stories about monsters who live among humans and suspect all the cattle stolen than sacrificed could be the work of that unusual, slightly insane neighbor no one trusts. Then they are cornered, threatened or attacked; and then they reveal their giant, monstrous form, and run away laughing, ready to live alone in the wilds or to infiltrate another society, never looking back at the family and home they lost. It was not their family; it was not their home. They have none of it; they are ogres, drinkers of wine, eaters of flesh, hoarders of pain.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/84/Barbebleue.jpg
Above, an ogre changeling in his Medium form: human-like, but still dreadful and cruel.




Physical Description: ogre changelings have two forms; none is truer than the other. They grow up in their Medium form - as that, they look like regular humans, but with exaggerate traits like boggled eyes, being too fat, thin, tall or muscled, having warts or big noses, etc. Even those who don't look extraordinary have something weird and nervous about them. Those who don't live in human society anymore may adopt a more monstrous appearance, letting their clothes rot, walking around hairy and naked, stitching amulets to their skin, sharpening their teeth... Tough they're weaker than humans, they don't appear to be so.

The transformations to the Large form is gruesome, but fast. Armor and clothing are twisted - they magically change appearance and adapt to the new size. Arms, legs and neck stretch. The ogre blurts a howl of satisfaction while her skin changes color and consistency, her hair grows, falls or just gets wilder, and her facial features change, grow disproportionately or are substituted by bestial features. Her expression always become more insane and twisted in the large form, and though the expression does not always seem malevolent, all the rest of her appearance does pretty much.

The Large form is always the same, but it's quite different for each ogre. Overall, the great majority of them have disproportionately long necks, arms and legs; hands, feet and head also tend to be big. They tend to grouch a little in this form, because their backs are deformed by hunches, and their skin looks oily and sick,

Ogre changelings are born proficient with weird they can craft themselves. When they're out to kill something they're generally seem with one of those weapons that no one else can use. Sometimes the presence of a large exotic weapon hidden in an adventurer's bag is enough to make her colleagues suspect they have an ogre among them...

http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/161/9/7/Oni_concept___final_by_dinmoney.jpg

Society: two ogre changelings are never seem together, unless they're trying to kill each other; or so it is said. The truth is that while they don't necessarily hate humans (just tend to see them as cattle and lab rats), they hate profoundly all others members of their own race. This hate has been compared to the territorialist instinct of some insects, but some ogres will walk an extra mile to be sure they're making the other one suffer as much as possible. This hate, however, does not work as an irrational reflex. Ogre changelings always know when they're in front of another ogre, even if any they are in their Medium form.

Ogre changelings are cruel, and are not hurt by cruelty. They don't feel like revenging just because they were abused in any way - though they are not masochists in any way, they just don't take ill intentions personally. They fight those who wish to harm and destroy them, but have no qualms against those who wish to do it with prejudice. Because of that, ogre changelings are often seem working along creatures who abuse them.

It is unknown how they reproduce; even to themselves. Sometimes, an ogre brutally murdered by another one will vomit a fetus with his last breath. If it grows up into adulthood, the fetus will look like a child of both ogres. Other times, a female ogre will get pregnant after eating a hero or sorceror whole; males do not impregnate any creatures the normal way, but there are tales of ogres who (accidentally or not) impregnated women lost in the forest with their gaze alone. A changeling ogre feels an overwhelming impulse to destroy the child with extreme cruelty; when they don't do it and restart the baby-stealing cycle, they do it out of mercy for their child, or out of malice towards humans.

Relations: ogre changelings consider themselves spirits, not mortals, and seldom relate to the mortal races. However, they like dealing with the more primal and uncivilized caster as druids and sorcerers. Ogre sense of humor is cruel, but can also be naive or childish at times, and wizards, bards and rogues amuse them with their wits.

They naturally see humans as pitiful and weak beings; some furthered that feeling into arrogance and desire to break any human who elevates himself above the average. Others learn to respect humans who are violent or powerful. They consider elves and gnomes spirits like them and will treat them as equals, in their own twisted way. They admire dwarven resilience and tend to test its limits. They see half-orcs as pathetic little brothers they can push around; more than one ogre changeling got traumatized after learning the bad way an enraged half-orc barbarian might be twice as strong as his large form...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Lechatbotte4.jpg
This ogre changeling's supernatural identity is wide known, still he feels more comfortable in his Medium form.

Alignment: Chaotic Evil is obviously their most common alignment, but ogre changeling of different alignment aren't rare at all. They all relinquish on cruelty and destruction, but that's taste, not inclination. Ogre changelings are not any less free willed than other sentient races. Good ogres are as vicious and unforgiving as other ogres, they just do not focus this violence on innocents, or rather, focus it on protecting them - they still see cruelty as something natural. Good ogres aren't unheard of; idealistic or naive ones are.

Some ogre changelings have the rare capacity of having two alignments, one for each form. The alignment active during the Large form is never more Good or Lawful than the Medium form Alignment. This generally isn't motive of inner conflict for ogres: as mystical beings, they believe their true nature isn't Good or Evil, and can see both things as reflections of their true self.

Adventurers: Ogre changelings that do *not* adventure are those satisfied with minor cruel deeds against travelers and villagers or the pleasures of flesh living as a disguised human or a simple bandit. Ogres, however, don't feel they have roots in anything besides their own mystical nature, and aren't particularly afraid of killing or getting killed. Opportunities to know marvelous things and places, to fight, use magical power and deception, would be enough to draw them into an adventuring life. Many start their adventuring careers after running away from an angry crowd that used to be their human family. Others have promised to destroy an enemy and are looking for it or trying to gather experience, power and allies. Finally, some of them dedicate their lives to a greater cause, be it of good or evil nature.


+4 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Str. Ogres in their large forms are fierce and uncanny, but they look tougher than they really are. It is not unheard of children beating the crap out of an ogre in large form.

Size: Ogre changeling can switch between Medium and Large size. In Medium form don't receive their racial Con and Cha bonuses, only the Str penalty, but they can wield weapons as a Large character. In their Large form they have all their racial bonuses and keep the Str penalty, but don't receive the penalties on Move Silently checks due to large size. Changing forms is a move action.

Type: Humanoid (giant), in both forms.

Base speed: 30ft in both forms.

Languages: Giant and the language of their adoptive family. Additional languages: Sylvan, Draconic, Orc, Elvish.


Ancestral memory: the GM picks 3 skills randomly and you get to choose two of them. Roll 1d8+2 for each: you have that many ranks in those skills. You cannot spend more skill point on them until your level is high enough. Ogre changelings are born with memories of other ogres, or maybe memories from a past life; or maybe it's just part of not needing their environment to teach them who they are.

Double alignment: as explained in Alignment, and entirely optional. You can loose (maybe permanently) class abilities for entering a form with a forbidden alignment, but you can advance your levels in a class as long as one of your alignments fit the requirements.

Weapon proficiency: the GM picks 6 exotic weapons randomly and you get to choose two of them. You are proficient with the Large or bigger versions of these weapons. You can craft those weapons for free (unless you want a weapon of superior quality; then just pay the additional price), and you always succeed in the craft check to make them. Weapons made like this feel weird at the hand of anyone but you, and no one else is proficient at them (-4 to attacks), even if they have the appropriate feat for that weapon type. Despite that, the personal weapons of an ogre changeling have a 30% chance of becoming magical items if the ogre is killed.

http://www.elfwood.com/art/l/o/loneanimator//Yokai_Oni.jpg
Some ogre changelings intentionally spread around the information that slaying them will give their loot magical abilities, so they can kill adventurers who come into the forests after them. Others pass their lives travelling with many disguises, poised to find and slay their own kind to loot their corpses.

Racial hatred: +4 in attack and damage rolls against other ogre changelings. You always know when someone is an ogre like you, and for all purposes have the Favored Enemy bonuses against ogre changelings. You cannot use the Help Another action for other ogre changelings, and all your harmless spells have a 30% chance of failing if you target them.

Conditional feat: every time an ogre gains a feat due to character level (including 1st level), she might choose that feat to be conditional. If she does, she actually gains two *different* feats: one that can only be used in Large form, and another one that can only be used in Medium form. The one used in Medium form has an additional condition to be effective. It must be a condition that happens less than 50% of time, that the ogre has no control upon or that is somehow undesirable. Talk to your GM before deciding what the condition is.

Examples of conditions: by night, under moonlight (not every night has moonlight; wouldn't work underground); soaked with natural water (you can't find water everywhere, and it's a bit weird to walk around like that); blood-soaked (same as water-soaked; could have an additional limitation of being other people's blood, or require a large quantity of your own blood and hit points); thristy for wine (would mean you're an alcoholic [maybe -2 in Will tests while thristy] and there's always the risk you drink too much and get wasted); stuffed after a gluttony surge (can't always happen and could mean a penalty, maybe to Reflex). Multiple feats could have different conditions, or not.

A conditional feat taken as a Large form feat can never be taken for the Medium form and vice versa. Once a feat has been taken as a conditional feat, it can never be taken as a regular feat.

Arcane aptitude: choose three 0-level spells from a single school. They can belong to different class spell lists. These are your known cantrips - you can cast 3 cantrips per day as a sorcerer. In your medium form, under a particular condition (see above), you can cast them at-will.

In Medium form, the caster level is always 1 and you cast them with your Charisma; and in Large form, your caster level is your character level and you may cast them with Charisma or Constitution. Large form suffers no Spell Failure Chance from armor.

Horrorsome shapechanging: When you transform from Medium to Large you gain a free Intimidate attempt (that could be used to demoralize). When you transform from Large from Medium you can apply a metamagical feat to a spontaneous spell without additional casting time, or a free feint attempt. Each effect can only be used once per encounter.

http://alem-da-lenda.zip.net/images/anhanga.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTPhQHPVrbep0o6LUMGtztAJ-wpiTFsMkwJmRA0gZLueMLf6MSM2Q
The first time a person sees a ogre transforming can be traumatizing, which led to rumours about their might to be exagerated.

Darkvision 30ft and Low-Light vision: each form has one, or one form has both; choose at character creation.

Cruelty: ogre changeling receive +2 bonuses on Intimate checks, or +8 in the turn just after a successful critical hit.

I've seen this nose before: thought they look human, the changelings' appearance and personality, even in medium form, are far too distinctive. They receive a -4 penalty in all disguise checks against those who have met them in the past.

Burn her!: ogre changelings are hated, and in most of cases, rightly so. They receive -4 in all Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Charisma ability checks, along with attempts to lie with the Bluff skill, if people know what they are. The reaction to their Large form is hostile in most situations.


Racial feats:

Accursed Form
Benefit: your large form isn't exactly humanoid - it's undead! Your type changes as such while in Large form. You lose your Con score but receives 2 hit points per hit dice when in your Large form. Other than that you have all immunities and vulnerabilities of the undead, except immunity to mental effects. Also, choose a weakness that gives you a negative condition while at this form (dazzled under bright light, shaken in the presence of holy symbols, deafened by sounds made by animals, fascinated by dying characters...)
Special: you can only take this feat at first level.

Arcane Focus
Benefit: choose a 1st level assassin or sorcerer spell from your cantrips' school. You can cast it once per day, or at will in Medium form under the previously selected condition. Caster level, casting ability and Spell Failure Chance as in Arcane Aptitude.

Arcane Knack
Benefit: you know all cantrips of your chosen school. The number of uses per day does not change. Caster level, casting ability and Spell Failure Chance as in Arcane Aptitude. Special: you can learn each cantrip (from the same school) spending one skill point instead of buying this feat.

Bestial form
Benefit: your Large form isn't humanoid; it is a Large dark animal, and your type changes to Magical Beast. Choose one of the following abilities: hold objects and weapons with your hands, talk, use magic. You do not retain that ability while at Large form. You always transform into the same animal, a Large version of one of the animals a first level druid could choose as a companion. Your abilities are the normal for a changeling ogre in Large form.
Special: you can only take this feat at first level.


Carrion Form
Benefit: your large form is a deranged, almost mindless monster of the Vermin subtype. You gain darkness vision 60ft and immunity to mental effects and to Intelligence damage. You can still think, thought in a very primitive and alien way. You also gain either bite (1d8) as a primary natural weapon or two claws (1d6 each) as secondary natural weapons (choose one when you gain this feat). You fail in all intelligence and intelligence related skill checks and can't cast spells using Intelligence as the casting ability. You still understand your two primary languages (Giant and your parent's language), but can't communicate, and can't use or be benefited by the Help Another action.
Special: you can only take this feat at first level.

Craft Ogre Weapon
Benefit: only to craft the two exotic weapons types you are proficient with because of the racial feature, you can craft magic weapons, half your character levels count as caster levels and you are treated as knowing all necessary spells. If you have levels in a spellcasting class, you might choose to count them outside of this feat's effect - for example, an ogre changeling Fighter 10 / Sorcerer 3 is considered to have a caster level 9 for this feat. You can't have more than 4 exotic weapons created by this feat at any given time, and you still must pay all the material and XP costs. These weapons are not magical in anybody else's hands, unless you are slayed (and does not ressurect). Exception: if your weapon is stolen, it still works, and it still counts in the limit of how many magic ogre weapons you can have.

Dual path
Prerequisite: character level 5th.
Benefit: Next time you level up after gaining this feat, your Medium form gains a level in one class and your Large form gains a level in another class.
Special: you can gain this feat multiple times.

Hungry spirit form
Benefit: In your large form you are tormented by hunger. You substitute the -2 Str penalty (which still applies to Medium form) for a +2 Str bonus, but gets a -4 penalty to Con instead of a +4 bonus. You gain a bite attack dealing 1d10 damage, critical multiplier x3. You gain +10 in Fortitude saves against ingested poison, and can choose to take 10 in this test as long as you can drink wine or blood along with it. In this form you must make a Will check (DC) 10 not to become fascinated by food (including corpses or a helpless creature). If it's a corpse or a helpless creature, add half the CR of the fallen creature to the DC. While you eat it you are still considered fascinated. Remember this won't be activated in the middle of a battle, because of the obvious threat.
Special: you can only take this feat at first level.

http://www.sightswithin.com/Francisco.Goya/Saturno_devorando_a_su_hijo.jpg
Nomnomnomnomnom

Improved Bestial form
Prerequisite: Bestial form
Benefit: Choose an extra animal you can transform into. You can only transform from Medium form to Bestial form and vice versa, never between two Bestial forms.
Special: you can gain this feat multiple times.


Soothing devil:
Prerequisite: character level 5th.
Benefit: in your large form you radiate beauty and peace. While this effect is active you have a +2 bonus to all Charisma and Charisma related Skill checks, and if you choose so, you can try to Fascinate (as the Bard ability) creatures with Indifferent or better attitude. You make a Diplomacy, Bluff or Perform check to be resisted by the targets' Will save. The targets must be up to 60ft from you, and you can choose up to one+(half your character level) creatures to be affected at a time. If you can get their attitude to Friendly, you may ask them to slowly come closer to you. As soon as anything that would cancel the effect of Fascinate happens (someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, etc), your true Large form appears to all those who aren't fascinated. Even if you don't attack them immediately their attitude becomes Unfriendly or worse (I guess worse if you're trying to eat them). Special: the Carrion Form can talk to those who are fascinated. In this case, half of what the targets hear comes from their own imagination ("he's talking to me... he's an angel... and what happened to Mr Kittens wasn't my fault...").

Mighty_Chicken
2014-02-11, 08:07 AM
Change log:


02-10-14:Slight correction in the Exotic Weapons text

Added two minor penalties to the race

02-14-14: changed caster level of Medium form Arcane Aptitude to 1. 0-level spells may come from any spell list. Arcane Focus can also grant assassin spells.


A comment: I thought that besides the two forms feature the race was too featureless. If anyone cares here's what I think of them up to now:

The features, besides double forms stuff, are:

Ancestral memory (free skills)

Exotic weapon proficiency (random weapons)

Arcane Aptitude (cantrips)

Horrorsome shapechanging (free demoralize when going big; free metamagic for sorcerers or free feint attempt when going medium)

Dark/Low Light vision

Cruelty (intimidate bonus, gets ridiculous after a critical hit)

Except for Dark/Lowlight vision I consider them all important fro flavor but something probably has to go.

I don't think Cruelty is strong since it's just a +2 bonus, and it just gets ridiculous immediately a random event. Arcane Aptitude is exactly just as powerful as gnomish cantrips.

Horrosome shapechanging is there just because it makes sense to seem bogey when you grow 5 feet in 3 seconds. And I thought there should be some organic advantage in going to medium form too... maybe this shouldn't be part of the race. This feature or at least half of it maybe become a racial feat instead of a feature.

I came up with the exotic weapons just because I needed ideas, but I like it now. Being proficient only with the large versions is a big disadvantage because ogre changelings are hated and hunted, walking around with an open ogre identity should be asking for trouble or at least social skill modifiers. Maybe this could be a racial feat, since not all members of the race can afford the trouble of carrying Large exotics weapons everywhere...

Dark/Low Light vision is just a must have for an ogre themed race. Mayve I'll limit it to the Large form.


Alternatively, since the Char modifier doesn't exist in Medium form, they need bonuses to Disguise and Bluff while in their human identities.

Mighty_Chicken
2014-02-13, 07:03 AM
Bumpin'. Come on people :)

OzymandiasX
2014-02-13, 11:41 AM
Bumpin'. Come on people :)

If the goal is to make a creature that is strange and different, you've succeeded. :)

ngilop
2014-02-13, 04:25 PM
The ability Arcane Aptitude needs some clarification. DOes you cast each spell 3 times or is it three times total for all 3 of them?

Conditional feat is a bit.. much. giving a character 2 feats everytime the get a feat is crazy, let alone to me how one of those feats can only be used in very specific contitions that must only ever happen less than 50% of the time. Too much paper work for a feat.

Im not sure if I like the free exotic weapon proficiency or not. I just am not seeing how a human raised ogre changling would automatically know how to use an dwarven urgosh or an orc double-axe.

Other than those 3 issues, I think this class is fine. expeically if it supposed to be a LA 1 or LA 2 equivalent race.

Mighty_Chicken
2014-02-19, 08:24 AM
If the goal is to make a creature that is strange and different, you've succeeded. :)

Thank you! I'm glad the flavor works.

But is it balanced? Is there any chance the racial features can be abused?



The ability Arcane Aptitude needs some clarification. DOes you cast each spell 3 times or is it three times total for all 3 of them?

Thank you for coming by ngilop.

I fixed it, hope it's clarified. Also, this made me rethink the ability a little, and now they can draw the 0-level spells from any list.


Conditional feat is a bit.. much. giving a character 2 feats everytime the get a feat is crazy, let alone to me how one of those feats can only be used in very specific contitions that must only ever happen less than 50% of the time. Too much paper work for a feat.

Well, I am worried about balance in this case. That's one of the biggest reasons why I need advice.

As a rethorical counterargument, I could say the Bind Vestige feat (from Tome of Magic) grants you one of 5 different abilities - each of them as powerful as a feat - every day, with the only disavantage of giving you a ~60% chance of having to follow some minor behavior restrictions.

And that's a feat a 1st level character could gain. Compare it to Conditonal feat. It's two and not five feats, and the restrictions are similar, probably worse in Condional feat's case; the big advantage being that you can switch feats as a move actions instead of daily.

Is it possible to abuse this racial feature? Could you think of any example? This feature is supposed to be useful and allow creative strategies, but not to be broken.

On the paperwork, I don't think it's much. Suppose your character has 2 conditional feats; in your feat list you just write "conditional featx2". Somewhere in you character sheet, you write: "Large form feats, A and B. Medium form feats, X and Y, condition: at urban area, under daylight". It requires two lines. And thinking about the condition isn't paperwork, it's flavoring your character; but either way, it's an optional feature.




Im not sure if I like the free exotic weapon proficiency or not. I just am not seeing how a human raised ogre changling would automatically know how to use an dwarven urgosh or an orc double-axe.

It's explained in the spoilered box: they can use these weapons for the same reason they have 1d8+2 ranks in two random skills. Changeling ogres grow up aware they're not humans, and with glimpses of memories of a past life, or memories of other ogres, no one's sure. A changeling ogre is always a cultural alien - a good part of his values and knowledge comes from nature, not nurture.


Other than those 3 issues, I think this class race is fine. expeically if it supposed to be a LA 1 or LA 2 equivalent race.

Then again, what you think of the Dual Path feat? Isn't Large size going to be a problem?

NeoSeraphi
2014-03-03, 05:43 PM
There is no way to balance a creature with Large size that is specifically designed to be a caster, as you have done.

Here's the problems:

1) You have taken away the creature's main draw, of being a fighter or a barbarian, by giving it a Strength penalty. In essence, you are encouraging only casters to play this race, and casters being Large size is the reason we don't have an LA 0 race to begin with.

2) Why is a caster that is Large a problem? The main reason is that it lets casters cast touch spells without concentration checks, as they have a reach of 10'. Additionally, a Large caster can 5' back from a Medium creature to avoid AoOs and still hit it with a touch spell, which are completely balanced around the idea that they have inherent risk involved with them.

3) The Strength penalty you've inflicted devalues a fighter's gear or a barbarian's rage, but a caster can not only ignore, but completely subvert the penalty with a 2nd level spell, bull's strength, which represents significantly less expenditure of the caster's resources (especially at higher level) than a use of a barbarian's rage ability. Additionally, the bull's strength has no drawbacks associated with rage and lasts significantly longer. This makes this race the perfect type for an eldritch knight character or a bad touch cleric, since the Constitution bonus will make the eldritch knight far tankier than even the dwarf fighter in the party (this is because the eldritch knight has to invest far fewer points into Strength, Dex or Wisdom and ends with only needing 18 Int at 20th, and can safely dump the rest of his gold and stats into Con).

4) Assuming that you are using standard PF rules here (Your title doesn't say but you have the Humanoid (Giant) subtype which as far as I know is PF exclusive), you are ignoring the fact that the Intimidate skill (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/intimidate) already grants an inherent +4 bonus to a creature if it is larger than its target. So using Intimidate against a Medium creature, this race has a +6 bonus, or a +12 bonus if it critically strikes. The inherent +6 bonus to a single skill far outweighs the penalties you've assigned, especially since the Intimidate skill can function similarly to the Bluff and Diplomacy skills in most situations (though a notable exception is when facing a creature immune to fear effects).

5. Because you are using PF rules, this creature is a valid target for the enlarge person spell, which can be made permanent with the permanency spell. If having a Large Eldritch knight in the party would be dangerous, having a Huge Eldritch Knight in the party would be catastrophic. If built and played properly, this character would have absolutely no way of getting attacked by a creature with 5' reach, as a spiked chain (total of 20' reach here) with Combat Reflexes would allow the character to simply trip his enemies way far away from himself. He wouldn't even need the Improved Trip feat as there's no chance of him provoking an attack of opportunity from that far away and he already has an inherent +2 bonus to his CMB from his increased Size. With two feats (Combat Reflexes and Exotic Weapon Proficiency) this race can easily simply ignore all penalties for casting spells and dominate the battlefield with crowd control.

6. As it stands, this race would not be allowed at my game period, LA +1 or LA +2. Starting with Large size and encouragement to play a caster will inevitably result in a caster breaking the game in new and interesting ways that will leave the rest of my players struggling to feel relevant to the group.

Mighty_Chicken
2014-03-05, 01:46 PM
Wow Seraphi, thank you very much for this. I don't know how I haven't noticed the reach/touch attack exploiting potential!

So you basically pointed 2 crippling problems, right?

1) Reach/touch in Large form

2) Overpowered Intimidate.


I will be in a six week hiatus during which I won't be logging, but, do you think these two fast fixes would be enough?

1) In Large form, Ogre Changeling can only deliver touch attacks by biting. The reach to bite is just 5 feet.

2) Ogre Changelings are menacing even in Medium form. They receive a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks that do not stack with the Intimidate size bonus of larger creatures. They also receive an extra +4 bonus to intimidate for a full turn after a successful critical hit or coup de grace.


About the Str penalty, I like the idea of big but weak guys. But maybe this would be better for them?

Medium form: +2 Cha
Large form: +4 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Str

That's in a context where humans have +2 in two abilities, and dwarves have +4 for Con (as I explained earlier, all races would be low LA+2). Their Medium form is probably inferior to a human fighter; the average human fighter will the stronger than the average ogre changeling fighter. But they'll have the option to morph into a form with a +3 net bonus to maneuvers, better reach and more hit points. If, balance-wise, the -2 to Str isn't necessary at all, maybe I could change it to a Dex penalty, but I like the Str penalty flavor better.

Would that be acceptable in your table? Are those three changes enough so it isn't broken anymore? If they are, how powerful would the race still be?

NeoSeraphi
2014-03-05, 06:04 PM
Wow Seraphi, thank you very much for this. I don't know how I haven't noticed the reach/touch attack exploiting potential!

So you basically pointed 2 crippling problems, right?

1) Reach/touch in Large form

2) Overpowered Intimidate.


I will be in a six week hiatus during which I won't be logging, but, do you think these two fast fixes would be enough?

1) In Large form, Ogre Changeling can only deliver touch attacks by biting. The reach to bite is just 5 feet.

2) Ogre Changelings are menacing even in Medium form. They receive a +2 bonus to Intimidate checks that do not stack with the Intimidate size bonus of larger creatures. They also receive an extra +4 bonus to intimidate for a full turn after a successful critical hit or coup de grace.


About the Str penalty, I like the idea of big but weak guys. But maybe this would be better for them?

Medium form: +2 Cha
Large form: +4 Con, +2 Cha, -2 Str

That's in a context where humans have +2 in two abilities, and dwarves have +4 for Con (as I explained earlier, all races would be low LA+2). Their Medium form is probably inferior to a human fighter; the average human fighter will the stronger than the average ogre changeling fighter. But they'll have the option to morph into a form with a +3 net bonus to maneuvers, better reach and more hit points. If, balance-wise, the -2 to Str isn't necessary at all, maybe I could change it to a Dex penalty, but I like the Str penalty flavor better.

Would that be acceptable in your table? Are those three changes enough so it isn't broken anymore? If they are, how powerful would the race still be?

Not good enough. Remember, maguses exist. Imagine an ogre changeling magus with reach, and a large sized weapon. From 10-20' away, he could apply his full weapon damage plus vampiric touch, shocking grasp, and a whole host of other dangerous spells.