ken-do-nim
2007-02-01, 11:17 AM
This is a thread for those interesting in playing the original D&D game as presented in the Rules Cyclopedia, because sometimes less is more. In particular, I'm trying to figure out the combat system. The rules present the following options, and I'd like to know if anyone out there has any experience with it and can tell me how it went.
Initiative
Group-based initiative - this option looks great for speeding up play. The downside that I can see is that if all members of one side go before all the others, it can really skew things. In particular, if one side goes last in a round, then goes first in the next, that's a lot of actions before the next side gets to go. The additional challenges of group-based initiative are what to do about the halfling's +1 to initiative or the smash/haymaker maneuvers which specify that you go last.
Individual initiative - I think the way this would work is that there are 8 phases in a round, numbered 7 to 0. Phase 7 is for halflings who rolled a 6. The next 6 phases are based on the initiative roll. Phase 0 is for those using an action like smash/haymaker that specify that they go last in the round. I'm assuming adding dexterity modifier to initiative is a bad idea because monsters don't have it.Combat
Quite unintentionally, Cyclopedia presents 2 combat systems if you read closely.
One action per round - this system states that you can do only one thing per round: move, attack, cast a spell, etc. If you start your round engaged in melee, you can take a 5 foot step to adjust your position. I think from a mechanics standpoint, this system works. However, I worry that it leads to a situation where no one ever wants to move up, because there is no charge option for characters.
Move + one maneuver - this is the system that I think makes the most sense. It does lead to some interesting problems though. Say Grimlock, the party's 10th level fighter, rolled a 5 for initiative. He moves up to attack in the movement phase, then decides he wants to use the smash maneuver. Does he freeze at that point and wait for phase 0? Or does he declare he intends to smash before he moves, thus delaying his whole move + smash until phase 0? Once phase 0 is reached, can he change his mind? Another thing to notice is that a fighting withdrawal is only a 5 foot step while a retreat is moving more than half your movement. So if you start a round engaged in melee, can you move away from one opponent, and as long as you move less than half your movement, go attack another in the same round? Finally, is that 5 foot step done in the movement phase or the hand-to-hand combat phase?Charging
If you look at the special actions section for monsters, it says a monster can charge. Is that all monsters, or only those who specifically say they can charge as a special ability? If the former, that makes goblins and kobolds much more formidable, because charging does double damage. This is especially nasty if you use the one action per round method. The poor players can't attack if they move up, while the monsters charge them and nail them silly. It's also plain unfair.
Ties
I can see problems with the movement phase here. It also makes a difference whether that 5' foot step is in the movement phase or in the hand-to-hand phase. If opponents A & B start the phase engaged in melee, if A takes a 5 foot step in the movement phase and B doesn't, A could then throw a javelin at B and B can do nothing to retaliate because the movement phase has passed. So I guess it makes life easier to put the 5 foot step into the hand-to-hand phase (which the fighting withdrawal has set a precedent for anyway).
House Rules
Here's what I've collected so far:
Weapon mastery beyond skilled should not be permitted until players reach master's levels (25+) (and maybe not even then).
Two-weapon fighting should be allowed as an option for thieves. The second weapon though should be small-sized (and used at one less level of weapon mastery if you do use it).
Thieves should use an enhanced skills table (thank you paigeoliver!)Here's some house rules I've come up with:
Guard combat maneuver. Anything that approaches you later in the same round you can attack when it comes into reach. I then alter the fighting withdrawal rule to say it is really a 5 foot step plus a guard. Note the subtle change that guard has over fighting withdrawal, because the latter specifies you get your attack at the end of the opponent's move phase. I want a guarding character to hit anybody trying to get past him, not just trying to attack him.
Withdrawal maneuver. This is when you start your turn engaged in melee, and you move up to half your movement away (but more than 5 feet). This differs from retreat in that you do not leave yourself exposed.
Delay. You voluntarily drop your initiative phase to a lower number. Say Grimlock once again rolled a 5. He says he is delaying. Now every time I announce a new phase, he can decide whether he wants to act in that phase. Sometimes when you win initiative, you want to go last!Well I'd like to hear your experiences or thoughts on any of these rules questions or others that I missed, because when I do eventually run my Cyclopedia campaign I want everything to go smoothly.
Initiative
Group-based initiative - this option looks great for speeding up play. The downside that I can see is that if all members of one side go before all the others, it can really skew things. In particular, if one side goes last in a round, then goes first in the next, that's a lot of actions before the next side gets to go. The additional challenges of group-based initiative are what to do about the halfling's +1 to initiative or the smash/haymaker maneuvers which specify that you go last.
Individual initiative - I think the way this would work is that there are 8 phases in a round, numbered 7 to 0. Phase 7 is for halflings who rolled a 6. The next 6 phases are based on the initiative roll. Phase 0 is for those using an action like smash/haymaker that specify that they go last in the round. I'm assuming adding dexterity modifier to initiative is a bad idea because monsters don't have it.Combat
Quite unintentionally, Cyclopedia presents 2 combat systems if you read closely.
One action per round - this system states that you can do only one thing per round: move, attack, cast a spell, etc. If you start your round engaged in melee, you can take a 5 foot step to adjust your position. I think from a mechanics standpoint, this system works. However, I worry that it leads to a situation where no one ever wants to move up, because there is no charge option for characters.
Move + one maneuver - this is the system that I think makes the most sense. It does lead to some interesting problems though. Say Grimlock, the party's 10th level fighter, rolled a 5 for initiative. He moves up to attack in the movement phase, then decides he wants to use the smash maneuver. Does he freeze at that point and wait for phase 0? Or does he declare he intends to smash before he moves, thus delaying his whole move + smash until phase 0? Once phase 0 is reached, can he change his mind? Another thing to notice is that a fighting withdrawal is only a 5 foot step while a retreat is moving more than half your movement. So if you start a round engaged in melee, can you move away from one opponent, and as long as you move less than half your movement, go attack another in the same round? Finally, is that 5 foot step done in the movement phase or the hand-to-hand combat phase?Charging
If you look at the special actions section for monsters, it says a monster can charge. Is that all monsters, or only those who specifically say they can charge as a special ability? If the former, that makes goblins and kobolds much more formidable, because charging does double damage. This is especially nasty if you use the one action per round method. The poor players can't attack if they move up, while the monsters charge them and nail them silly. It's also plain unfair.
Ties
I can see problems with the movement phase here. It also makes a difference whether that 5' foot step is in the movement phase or in the hand-to-hand phase. If opponents A & B start the phase engaged in melee, if A takes a 5 foot step in the movement phase and B doesn't, A could then throw a javelin at B and B can do nothing to retaliate because the movement phase has passed. So I guess it makes life easier to put the 5 foot step into the hand-to-hand phase (which the fighting withdrawal has set a precedent for anyway).
House Rules
Here's what I've collected so far:
Weapon mastery beyond skilled should not be permitted until players reach master's levels (25+) (and maybe not even then).
Two-weapon fighting should be allowed as an option for thieves. The second weapon though should be small-sized (and used at one less level of weapon mastery if you do use it).
Thieves should use an enhanced skills table (thank you paigeoliver!)Here's some house rules I've come up with:
Guard combat maneuver. Anything that approaches you later in the same round you can attack when it comes into reach. I then alter the fighting withdrawal rule to say it is really a 5 foot step plus a guard. Note the subtle change that guard has over fighting withdrawal, because the latter specifies you get your attack at the end of the opponent's move phase. I want a guarding character to hit anybody trying to get past him, not just trying to attack him.
Withdrawal maneuver. This is when you start your turn engaged in melee, and you move up to half your movement away (but more than 5 feet). This differs from retreat in that you do not leave yourself exposed.
Delay. You voluntarily drop your initiative phase to a lower number. Say Grimlock once again rolled a 5. He says he is delaying. Now every time I announce a new phase, he can decide whether he wants to act in that phase. Sometimes when you win initiative, you want to go last!Well I'd like to hear your experiences or thoughts on any of these rules questions or others that I missed, because when I do eventually run my Cyclopedia campaign I want everything to go smoothly.