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spikeof2010
2014-03-07, 08:52 PM
I thought the fighter didn't have enough bonus feats, so I made this

The Bonus Feat is quite the character, mainly because he accumulates so many feats.

Alignment:Any
Starting Hit DieD6
Skill Points: 40+INT Modifier at first level, 4+INT every level after
Skills: Same as Fighter's


Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st

+1

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Bonus Feat Mastery


2nd

+2

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Feat Redundancy


3rd

+3

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Feat Swap


4th

+4

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Feat Suppression Field


5th

+5

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Repetition


6th

+6/+1

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Feat Redundancy Redundancy


7th

+7/+2

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Feat Waiver


8th

+8/+3

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Power Feat


9th

+9/+4

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Feat Focus


10th

+10/+5

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Epic Feat Mastery


11th

+11/+6/+1

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat


12th

+12/+7/+2

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Feat Specialization


13th

+13/+8/+3

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Feat Mastery


14th

+14/+9/+4

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat


15th

+15/+10/+5

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat, Feat Supremacy


16th

+16/+11/+6/+1

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat


17th

+17/+12/+7/+2

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat


18th

+18/+13/+8/+3

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat


19th

+19/+14/+9/+4

+0

+0

+0
Bonus Feat


20th

+20/+15/+10/+5

+0

+0

+9
Bonus Feat, True Master of Feats


Weapon Proficiency: The bonus feat is proficient in all simple and martial weapons and all armors and shields.

Bonus Feat (Ex): The Bonus Feat gains a bonus feat at each level.

Bonus Feat Mastery (Ex): At each level, a Bonus Feat gains a number of bonus feats equal to the number of feats they already have.

Epic Feat Mastery (Ex): At 10th level, a Bonus Feat may take Epic feats as bonus feats.

Feat Swap: Starting at 3rd level, you may spend 8 hours in meditation to swap any number of feats you possess for an equal number of feats you meet all prerequisites for.

Feat Wavier (EX): The Bonus Feat may ignore prerequisites of up to 5 feats per level.

True Master of Feats: At 20th level, the Bonus Feat may reselect all his feats after eight hours of rest. He may also ignore all prerequisites for any feat he has.

Repetition: At 5th level, the Bonus Feat may select any feat multiple times, even if it normally can only be taken once.

Feat Focus: Starting at 9th level, any feat you possess that has a numerical bonus gets that numerical bonus increased by your class level.

Feat Specialization: Starting at 11th level, any feat you possess that has a numerican bonus gets that numerical bonus increased by the number of bonus feats you possess.

Feat Mastery: Starting at level 13, any bonus feat you take that is usable a limited number of times per day has that number of times increased by your class level.

Feat Supremacy: Starting at level 15, any ability granted by a feat may be used as a free action.

Feat Suppression Field (Ex): At 4th level, every creature within (5 x the number of feats that the Bonus Feat has)' lose the benefit of any feat that the Bonus Feat has for as long as they remain within range. A will save against a DC 10 + 1/2 level + Charisma allows a creature to ignore the effects of this aura for 24 hours.

Feat Redundancy: Starting at 2nd level, each feat you possess that can be selected an unlimited number of times is gained once more as a bonus feat at each subsequent class level

Power Feat: Once a day, the Bonus Feat may choose any feat and increase it's numerical effects twicefold for 5 rounds.

Feat Redundancy Redundancy: At every level, you get all the feats you previously got from Feat Redundancy.

Is it Tier 1 yet?

Realms of Chaos
2014-03-07, 10:16 PM
Needs more feats, dude. I know you can give it more than that. :smallannoyed:

Seerow
2014-03-07, 10:18 PM
40+int mod skill points at first level?

Realms of Chaos
2014-03-07, 10:21 PM
40+int mod skill points at first level?

Huh, I didn't even notice that deficiency next to the feat-starved nature of the class. Yeah, you should probably give out more.

spikeof2010
2014-03-07, 10:36 PM
I think they need to make a tier 7.

AuraTwilight
2014-03-07, 11:31 PM
you should probably give it full BAB and all good saves to maximize the amount of feats it can qualify for.

And maybe a feature along the lines that it can qualify for any feat as if it were a different class of it's equivalent level.

Amechra
2014-03-08, 05:05 AM
Bonus Feat Mastery (Ex): At each level, a FEATMASTER gains a number of bonus feats equal to the number of feats they already have.

Epic Feat Mastery (Ex): At xth level, a FEATMASTER may take Epic feats as bonus feats.

There. Assuming a Human FEATMASTER without any flaws, they have this many feats at each level:

1. 6
2. 12
3. 26
4. 52
5. 104
6. 210
7. 420
8. 840
9. 1682
10. 3364
...

You get the idea.

It'd be broken, but eh.

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 03:51 PM
Bonus Feat Mastery (Ex): At each level, a FEATMASTER gains a number of bonus feats equal to the number of feats they already have.

Epic Feat Mastery (Ex): At xth level, a FEATMASTER may take Epic feats as bonus feats.

There. Assuming a Human FEATMASTER without any flaws, they have this many feats at each level:

1. 6
2. 12
3. 26
4. 52
5. 104
6. 210
7. 420
8. 840
9. 1682
10. 3364
...

You get the idea.

It'd be broken, but eh.

Definitely adding these.

Amechra
2014-03-08, 03:54 PM
Building the character will be painful.

Seerow
2014-03-08, 04:20 PM
Bonus Feat Mastery (Ex): At each level, a FEATMASTER gains a number of bonus feats equal to the number of feats they already have.

Epic Feat Mastery (Ex): At xth level, a FEATMASTER may take Epic feats as bonus feats.

There. Assuming a Human FEATMASTER without any flaws, they have this many feats at each level:

1. 6
2. 12
3. 26
4. 52
5. 104
6. 210
7. 420
8. 840
9. 1682
10. 3364
...

You get the idea.

It'd be broken, but eh.

I'm not sure there's enough feats in the game for this suggestion. On the other hand when you level up to 20 and take Toughness 3,444,736 times, toughness no longer seems like such an awful feat.


I'm also still not entirely sure if the OP is being serious or making a joke with this.

If it's serious, I'd recommend readjusting the skill points to a more normal level, give actual BAB/Save progressions (even if it's low. But I'd go with humanoid levels, so 1 good save, medium BAB), and make it a flat 5 feats per level (effectively what characters in E6 get for their progression).

Realms of Chaos
2014-03-08, 04:23 PM
Building the character will be painful.

Nonsense. Get as many feats as you care for and spend the rest on toughness. A level 10 character with 9,000+ hp sounds pretty interesting. Alternately, go for psionic talent and grab 4.5 million power points before multiclassing into a class that can properly use them.

Or, if you want the true route to power, choose skill focus. +3 bonus to every profession you can imagine. Can you handle the power? :smalleek:

Seerow
2014-03-08, 04:28 PM
Nonsense. Get as many feats as you care for and spend the rest on toughness. A level 10 character with 9,000+ hp sounds pretty interesting. Alternately, go for psionic talent and grab 4.5 million power points before multiclassing into a class that can properly use them.

Or, if you want the true route to power, choose skill focus. +3 bonus to every profession you can imagine. Can you handle the power? :smalleek:

Factotum 8/Bonus Feat 12

Take Font of Inspiration 26,900 times.

Have fun calculating how many inspiration points you get. But I think the bottom line is "I kill the whole world in one round".

Edit: Oh wait, Font of Inspiration is capped by intelligence modifier. So past a certain point you have to take Epic Intellect twice for every Font of Inspiration. Say 34 base intelligence, so you get 12+(26888/3) instances of Font of Inspiration. 8974 instances of Font of Inspiration. Still going to have somewhere in the millions of inspiration points.

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 04:40 PM
Factotum 8/Bonus Feat 12

Take Font of Inspiration 26,900 times.

Have fun calculating how many inspiration points you get. But I think the bottom line is "I kill the whole world in one round".

Edit: Oh wait, Font of Inspiration is capped by intelligence modifier. So past a certain point you have to take Epic Intellect twice for every Font of Inspiration. Say 34 base intelligence, so you get 12+(26888/3) instances of Font of Inspiration. 8974 instances of Font of Inspiration. Still going to have somewhere in the millions of inspiration points.

Inspiration points? What splatbook is this from?:smallconfused:

Amechra
2014-03-08, 05:09 PM
And the best part is the Intelligence in the low mid 1000s.

Totally balanced!

But naw, I'd just dip Martial and buy a crapton copies of Epic Charisma. +500-ish to the whole party's initiative is good, right?

Or spend the entire day hasted.

Or have excessive amounts of DR/-.

Fast Healing in the hundreds? Doable!

NI followers? Could be!

Seriously, go for the better feats, and win the game! WIN IT, I SAY!

Seerow
2014-03-08, 05:14 PM
And the best part is the Intelligence in the low mid 1000s.

No, you're underestimating it. It's not low-mid 1000s. You have an intelligence mod equal to the number of times you took Font of Inspiration. That's an int mod of 8974, or an Intelligence Score of 17,958.

Of course you could always stop around 1000, pick up 1000 or so charisma, tons of DR, HP, fast healing, and all the other stuff mentioned.

And still have enough feats left over to take every feat ever printed (plus blow enough feats to get your stats high enough to qualify for them)




Yeah, getting 10s of thousands of feats is just silly.

Eldan
2014-03-08, 05:16 PM
And maybe spend a few dozen feats on getting epic spellcasting via Sanctum Spell/earth spell tricks?

You could probably get it by level 10, if you try.

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 05:16 PM
The problem with this class is due to lack of BAB progression and such, you missed a lot of feats due to prereqs. So I added a new feature

Tanuki Tales
2014-03-08, 05:20 PM
Hm....this thread has inspired me. :smallamused:

Seerow
2014-03-08, 05:22 PM
And maybe spend a few dozen feats on getting epic spellcasting via Sanctum Spell/earth spell tricks?

You could probably get it by level 10, if you try.

I'm pretty sure it would only take that long because that's when the epic feats come online.

Jallorn
2014-03-08, 05:23 PM
Hmmmm... Needs an Epic Progression. And can I suggest for a capstone:

True Master of Feats: At 20th level, the Bonus Feat may reselect all his feats after eight hours of rest. He may also ignore all prerequisites for any feat he has.


You might want to do something about all the dead levels, though.

Here's another one to toss in there:

Repetition: At Xth level, the Bonus Feat may select any feat multiple times, even if it normally can only be taken once.

Seerow
2014-03-08, 05:28 PM
Repetition: At Xth level, the Bonus Feat may select any feat multiple times, even if it normally can only be taken once.


Excellent place to start with breaking this: You can now pick up every soulmeld in the game, every chakra binding, enough essence to max them all out, and can take the feat that lets you shape/bind two melds to the same slot as many times as you want to have them all shaped and melded at once.

Still got nothing on epic spellcasting at level 10, but fun and you probably have all of them by around level 6.

Jallorn
2014-03-08, 05:31 PM
Excellent place to start with breaking this: You can now pick up every soulmeld in the game, every chakra binding, enough essence to max them all out, and can take the feat that lets you shape/bind two melds to the same slot as many times as you want to have them all shaped and melded at once.

Still got nothing on epic spellcasting at level 10, but fun and you probably have all of them by around level 6.

What do you mean? I think it still needs some help.
Actually I think this probably outdoes Lighting Warrior.
I mean, it's no Lightning Warrior, but...

Realms of Chaos
2014-03-08, 07:00 PM
What do you mean? I think it still needs some help.

totally agreed. We should start by filling all of those dead levels ('cause everyone knows that feats aren't "real" class features).

Feat Swap: Starting at X level, you may spend 8 hours in meditation to swap any number of feats you possess for an equal number of feats you meet all prerequisites for.

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 07:04 PM
Christ, I love how much support this class is getting. I hope it gets into Morph Bark's tier list.

Seerow
2014-03-08, 07:11 PM
totally agreed. We should start by filling all of those dead levels ('cause everyone knows that feats aren't "real" class features).

Feat Swap: Starting at X level, you may spend 8 hours in meditation to swap any number of feats you possess for an equal number of feats you meet all prerequisites for.

Feat Focus: Starting at Y level, any feat you possess that has a numerical bonus gets that numerical bonus increased by your class level.

Feat Specialization: Starting at Z level, any feat you possess that has a numerican bonus gets that numerical bonus increased by the number of bonus feats you possess.

Feat Mastery: Starting at level A, any bonus feat you take that is usable a limited number of times per day has that number of times increased by your class level.

Feat Supremacy: Starting at level B, any ability granted by a feat may be used as a free action.

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 07:26 PM
Feat Focus: Starting at Y level, any feat you possess that has a numerical bonus gets that numerical bonus increased by your class level.

Feat Specialization: Starting at Z level, any feat you possess that has a numerican bonus gets that numerical bonus increased by the number of bonus feats you possess.

Feat Mastery: Starting at level A, any bonus feat you take that is usable a limited number of times per day has that number of times increased by your class level.

Feat Supremacy: Starting at level B, any ability granted by a feat may be used as a free action.
Dear lord, this class is slowly approaching Tier 3

Amechra
2014-03-08, 07:26 PM
I'm still kinda curious why they get +5 BAB at 1st level... but have BAB +0 at every other level.

EDIT: Oh, and:

Feat Suppression Field (Ex): At C level, every creature within (5 x the number of feats that the FEATMASTER has)' lose the benefit of any feat that the FEATMASTER has for as long as they remain within range. A will save against a DC 10 + 1/2 level + Charisma allows a creature to ignore the effects of this aura for 24 hours.

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 07:29 PM
I'm still kinda curious why they get +5 BAB at 1st level... but have BAB +0 at every other level.

fixed it. This is clearly how BAB progression works.

Amechra
2014-03-08, 07:31 PM
Oh and I editted in a low-power class feature.

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 07:35 PM
We need something to fill in the dead 15-19 levels

Eldan
2014-03-08, 07:35 PM
Dear lord, this class is slowly approaching Tier 3

It's pretty much tier 1 already, since it has full wizard casting. And epic spellcasting etc. by level 10.

gooddragon1
2014-03-08, 07:39 PM
This class is broken because of the feat known as bonus feat:



Bonus Feat [General]

Benefit
You gain a bonus feat for which you meet the prerequisites.

Special
You may take this feat multiple times, it's effects stack.


You take the bonus feat feat multiple times and then retrain them.

Realms of Chaos
2014-03-08, 07:59 PM
Gooddragon1: How could you say that? Everyone knows that the bonus feat needs the bonus feat feat. Swapping it out like that is a little bit cheesy but that type of cheese is the only thing that'll let a class like the bonus feat play alongside high tier classes. Besides the bonus feat doesn't do anything to the bonus feat feat that normal old retraining doesn't so it isn't like the abuse wasn't already there.

Not the person to tell you what you'd need for those high level abilities but I do have something that might work at level 2.

Feat Redundancy: Starting at 2nd level, each feat you possess that can be selected an unlimited number of times is gained once more as a bonus feat at each subsequent class level

gooddragon1
2014-03-08, 08:12 PM
Gooddragon1: How could you say that? Everyone knows that the bonus feat needs the bonus feat feat. Swapping it out like that is a little bit cheesy but that type of cheese is the only thing that'll let a class like the bonus feat play alongside high tier classes.

Balancing this class against the lightning warrior is not the solution. Classes like the lightning warrior need to be nerfed rather than buffing other classes to it's level of power. Admittedly this class doesn't get a familiar but it still shouldn't try to compete with the lightning warrior.

Seerow
2014-03-08, 08:15 PM
Balancing this class against the lightning warrior is not the solution. Classes like the lightning warrior need to be nerfed rather than buffing other classes to it's level of power. Admittedly this class doesn't get a familiar but it still shouldn't try to compete with the lightning warrior.

Who says this class doesn't get a familiar?

You can ignore a bunch of feat prereqs. So you just ignore the arcane caster prereq and take the Summon Familiar feat. Then improved familiar. And take those two as many times as you want for arbitrary numbers of familiars.

Or for real awesome, take Psicrystal Affinity, then Improved Psicrystal 10,000 times or so. Because who doesn't want a 10,000HD construct companion?



Edit: Actually... by my count you get


Level 1: 1 feat
Level 2: 1 feats
Level 3: 2 feats
Level 4: 4 feats
Level 5: 8 feats
Level 6: 16 feats
Level 7: 32 feats
Level 8: 64 feats
Level 9: 128 feats
Level 10: 256 feats
Level 11: 512 feats
Level 12: 1024 feats
Level 13: 2048 feats
Level 14: 4096 feats
Level 15: 8192 feats
Level 16: 16,384 feats
Level 17: 32,768 feats
Level 18: 65,536 feats
Level 19: 131,072 feats
Level 20: 262,144 feats

That's how many feats are gained at each level. So at level 20 you actually have a total of 524,288 feats.

To the best of my knowledge, there's roughly 3600 feats printed. You have enough feats to take every single one of them, and if there were 100 feats you liked enough to take multiple times, take each of those 100 feats 5,206 times.


...yeah that's not enough. Boost it up to two bonus feats at level 1, to get us over the 1milllion hump.

Amechra
2014-03-08, 08:45 PM
You aren't taking into account Human Bonus Feats or Bonus Feats in groups that use Flaws.

Seerow
2014-03-08, 08:47 PM
You aren't taking into account Human Bonus Feats or Bonus Feats in groups that use Flaws.

I was assuming it only worked with bonus feats from the class.

Yeah jumping 1st level feats up to 4 instead of 1 gets us up to... 2,097,152?

That gives you enough to take 100 feats of your choice 21,000 times each, while still taking every feat in the game at least once.

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 09:41 PM
Ooh, I love the ideas.

Grimsage Matt
2014-03-08, 11:00 PM
I have the urge to play a gesalt using this, The perfectionist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252216), some 3rd part splat books, and Endogrimshell's Expanded Aberration Blood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155474).

Will it be cheap? Will it be broken? Will it exploit wierd crap? Yes, yes it will.

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 11:24 PM
I have the urge to play a gesalt using this, The perfectionist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252216), some 3rd part splat books, and Endogrimshell's Expanded Aberration Blood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155474).

Will it be cheap? Will it be broken? Will it exploit wierd crap? Yes, yes it will.

Which splatbooks in particular? I'm intrested in picking up a few.

Realms of Chaos
2014-03-08, 11:27 PM
I have the urge to play a gesalt using this, The perfectionist (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252216), some 3rd part splat books, and Endogrimshell's Expanded Aberration Blood (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155474).

Will it be cheap? Will it be broken? Will it exploit wierd crap? Yes, yes it will.

Perfectionist? Ha! Try The Humanoid (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332557)!

Grimsage Matt
2014-03-08, 11:27 PM
I use these (http://www.purpleduckgames.com/publication-list), because no matter what I want to build, it has something.

Edit; Maybe in a Trisalt where the only purpose is to be as cheap/cheesy as possible. Wonder if I would qualify for your Epic PrC's?

spikeof2010
2014-03-08, 11:52 PM
I use these (http://www.purpleduckgames.com/publication-list), because no matter what I want to build, it has something.

Edit; Maybe in a Trisalt where the only purpose is to be as cheap/cheesy as possible. Wonder if I would qualify for your Epic PrC's?

Any in specific you recommend?

Grimsage Matt
2014-03-09, 12:02 AM
3.5E tower for Greater Skill Focus (and others), but other then that, the Qusesstienal X books. Ya, its a lot of books still, but you can find a feat for any archtype in them. Without giving me what you want to build, I can't narrow it down any further.

spikeof2010
2014-03-09, 12:14 AM
I think this class has reached borderline 3-4 tier

Ziegander
2014-03-09, 12:54 AM
I think this class has reached borderline 3-4 tier

If you're not joking, and are in fact serious, then no, no it's definitely, definitely a lot more powerful than Tier 3 or 4. It's the closest thing to Tier 0 that I've ever seen. It's more powerful than the most powerful Wizard. By an absurdly wide margin.

Seerow
2014-03-09, 12:56 AM
If you're not joking, and are in fact serious, then no, no it's definitely, definitely a lot more powerful than Tier 3 or 4. It's the closest thing to Tier 0 that I've ever seen. It's more powerful than the most powerful Wizard. By an absurdly wide margin.

Don't be silly Ziegander. It's just feats! Everyone knows no matter how many feats you get, you can't ever exceed tier 4.

spikeof2010
2014-03-09, 01:46 AM
If you're not joking, and are in fact serious, then no, no it's definitely, definitely a lot more powerful than Tier 3 or 4. It's the closest thing to Tier 0 that I've ever seen. It's more powerful than the most powerful Wizard. By an absurdly wide margin.

This seems like a Tier 7 class at best.

Ziegander
2014-03-09, 02:57 AM
This seems like a Tier 7 class at best.

Ahh, Okay. Gotcha.

spikeof2010
2014-03-09, 04:18 AM
Ahh, Okay. Gotcha.

I thought it was clear this class was underpowered

Necroticplague
2014-03-09, 12:01 PM
Hmmm...
Select "Keep on Rolling".
Become immune to all physical damage.
Seems legit.

spikeof2010
2014-03-09, 01:08 PM
Hmmm...
Select "Keep on Rolling".
Become immune to all physical damage.
Seems legit.

Stack Improved Evasion 2 times. You are now immune to all damage that requires a reflex save

1pwny
2014-04-20, 07:31 PM
At level 20, changing all my feats to Epic Speed. I now move at about 60,000,000 feet / round. That's 10,000,000 feet/second. Watcha gonna do?:smallbiggrin:

spikeof2010
2014-04-20, 09:31 PM
At level 20, changing all my feats to Epic Speed. I now move at about 60,000,000 feet / round. That's 10,000,000 feet/second. Watcha gonna do?:smallbiggrin:

This is amazing.

Ninjadeadbeard
2014-04-21, 03:24 AM
At level 20, changing all my feats to Epic Speed. I now move at about 60,000,000 feet / round. That's 10,000,000 feet/second. Watcha gonna do?:smallbiggrin:

G-gotta go f-fast? :smalleek:

1whoscribbled
2014-04-21, 10:18 AM
This seems like a Tier 7 class at best.

-7 :smallwink:

Seerow
2014-04-21, 10:24 AM
At level 20, changing all my feats to Epic Speed. I now move at about 60,000,000 feet / round. That's 10,000,000 feet/second. Watcha gonna do?:smallbiggrin:

That's only 3,048,000 meters per second, or .01C. Surely there's something more efficient than that.

Veklim
2014-04-21, 12:06 PM
Well, .01C is still pretty damned fast, you're gonna be moving faster than sound by a good margin, experiencing a fair amount of time distortion and have a truly HORRIFIC inertia....I think it works well enough, but I'll certainly look into speeding it up a bit XD

Jallorn
2014-04-21, 12:34 PM
Well, .01C is still pretty damned fast, you're gonna be moving faster than sound by a good margin, experiencing a fair amount of time distortion and have a truly HORRIFIC inertia....I think it works well enough, but I'll certainly look into speeding it up a bit XD

Take a two level dip into speedster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?216746-The-Speedster-3-5-base-class-PEACH) for insane AC and a once per encounter explosion.

spikeof2010
2014-04-21, 03:00 PM
This class is broken because of the feat known as bonus feat:



You take the bonus feat feat multiple times and then retrain them.

I laughed a long time at this.

1pwny
2014-04-26, 05:32 PM
That's only 3,048,000 meters per second, or .01C. Surely there's something more efficient than that.

I also take Run, allowing me to move 5 times as fast. That's 0.05C. And if you can move at 1/20th the speed of light, you're going pretty fast. :smallsmile:

Vedhin
2014-04-26, 05:44 PM
Hey, I notice this class does not qualify for FEATER (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=4463.0). What kind of self respecting "Bonus Feat" class does not qualify for FEATER? And because the class needs all the help it can get, it ought to have all of its class features progressed by FEATER.

1pwny
2014-04-26, 06:42 PM
Why doesn't it? Are you saying that Tier 7 classes can't be Epic?

Vedhin
2014-04-26, 07:15 PM
Why doesn't it? Are you saying that Tier 7 classes can't be Epic?

They can be, but the class should specify it is so no DMs argue you don't qualify for FEATER. Because rest assured, DMs will try anything to prevent you from becoming a Bonus Feat/FEATER.

Veklim
2014-04-26, 07:22 PM
But......the idea of taking levels in something OTHER than Bonus Feat reduces the epicness of the Bonus Feat, even if it's by going into Feater. What a conundrum!

Vedhin
2014-04-26, 07:30 PM
But......the idea of taking levels in something OTHER than Bonus Feat reduces the epicness of the Bonus Feat, even if it's by going into FEATER. What a conundrum!

No, it enhances it. If Bonus Feat is epic, and FEATER is epic, combining the two is simple math: epic + epic = double epic. The calculation doesn't lie.


Also, I noticed that Feat Suppression Field has a DC of 10 + + 1/2 level + Charisma. I move that this be altered to 10 +1/2 number of feats + number of feats.

LordErebus12
2014-04-27, 06:13 AM
At level 20, changing all my feats to Epic Speed. I now move at about 60,000,000 feet / round. That's 10,000,000 feet/second. Watcha gonna do?:smallbiggrin:

At that speed, at what point does a crosswind simply flay you alive?

1pwny
2014-04-27, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by LordErebus12:

At that speed, at what point does a crosswind simply flay you alive?

Probably at much less than 0.05C. But there is almost definitely some way to go around that. This IS Dungeons & Dragons, remember. :smallsmile:

Veklim
2014-04-28, 01:53 PM
All you need is some DR to soak the friction damage caused by moving, you can do that with feats :smallbiggrin:

LordErebus12
2014-04-28, 03:44 PM
Level 20: 262,144 feats
Spend 1000 feats on Damage Reduction
So... DR 3000 / ---

Veklim
2014-04-28, 07:05 PM
Level 20: 262,144 feats
Spend 1000 feats on Damage Reduction
So... DR 3000 / ---

Indeed, that should do it. :smallbiggrin:

Weikel
2014-04-29, 01:16 PM
With feat specialization you only need to spend one feat on Dr to get more than you will ever need.

Jallorn
2014-04-29, 01:40 PM
With feat specialization you only need to spend one feat on Dr to get more than you will ever need.

Oh geeze, did this get factored into the Epic Speed bonuses? I don't think so.

Seerow
2014-04-29, 01:51 PM
Oh geeze, did this get factored into the Epic Speed bonuses? I don't think so.

lmao yeah, it really didn't.

262,144 feats. So Epic Speed would grant +262170 Move speed (rounded down to the nearest 5ft increment). Now you take that 260,000 times (the other 2,144 can go to other things, still plenty to do whatever you want). That is 68,164,200,000 feet from increased move speed. Multiply by 5 for running and that's 340,821,000,000ft per 6 seconds. Which translates to 56,803,500,000 feet per second.

For comparison, speed of Light is 983,571,056 feet per second. So you move roughly 57.75 times the speed of light.

Much better.

LordErebus12
2014-04-29, 02:30 PM
lmao yeah, it really didn't.

262,144 feats. So Epic Speed would grant +262170 Move speed (rounded down to the nearest 5ft increment). Now you take that 260,000 times (the other 2,144 can go to other things, still plenty to do whatever you want). That is 68,164,200,000 feet from increased move speed. Multiply by 5 for running and that's 340,821,000,000ft per 6 seconds. Which translates to 56,803,500,000 feet per second.

For comparison, speed of Light is 983,571,056 feet per second. So you move roughly 57.75 times the speed of light.

Much better.

pretty sure if he trips on a rock and hits the earth, the entire world disintegrates from the force that amount of mass creates as it smacks the surface.

Seerow
2014-04-29, 02:32 PM
pretty sure if he trips on a rock and hits the earth, the entire world disintegrates from the force that amount of mass creates as it smacks the surface.

On the bright side for 100 of his remaining 2,144 feats he can have DR26,214,700/- so he'll survive. Just gotta find a feat that grants sustenance so he doesn't suffocate to death.


Alternatively he can invest a handful of feats into an arbitrarily high balance check (picking up skill focus 4 times gets you +1million balance) to make sure you never trip on anything even with your ridiculous speed.

Veklim
2014-04-29, 03:43 PM
You'd not be worried about gravity by then, if you tripped and fell, you'd end up in space....

1pwny
2014-04-29, 08:26 PM
Okay, I just want to put this out there (if it hasn't been said). Automatic Quicken Spell x9. Automatic Silent Spell x3. Automatic Still Spell x3.

I now cast everything up to and including 9th level spells instantly, silently, and quickly.

Spend some time at home with a few Rods of Absorption, and then spam out, like, a million Spheres of Ultimate Destruction. In one round.

WyvernLord
2014-04-30, 11:01 AM
Quick question does the elf still get to count there racial proficiency feats for the purpose of bonus feat mastery even with the class proficiencies? If they do we have a new top tier choice.

Keledrath
2014-07-23, 07:46 PM
First off, terrifying thought: Doesn't Repetition qualify all of your feats for Feat Redundancy? And is Feat Redundancy recursive (bonus feats granted by FR grant you another copy of them next level when you get FR again)?

Also, I'm surprised no one mentioned this...Leadership. Stacking. Convert the entire multiverse.

illyahr
2014-07-23, 10:44 PM
It's so...beautiful...:smalleek:

Weikel
2014-07-23, 10:45 PM
I feel like this class is the short path to godhood. Take a few levels, rule the entire universe. Take a nap.

razorfloss
2014-07-23, 11:22 PM
so out of curiosity is there a way to get ninth lvl casting and if so post a build for purely fun reasons i promise

spikeof2010
2014-07-24, 12:02 AM
so out of curiosity is there a way to get ninth lvl casting and if so post a build for purely fun reasons i promise

I think somewhere in the thread it was said how.

Also I'm surprise this thread got chosen to be turned into a necrofeat.

Keledrath
2014-07-24, 12:33 PM
Also, I would like to note that this class gets every single ToB maneuver and everything from Magic of Incarnum. Even if you can't get 9th level spells (It was posted that you could, but not the how) I'm pretty sure this hits T2 from that.

Jallorn
2014-07-24, 12:48 PM
Also, I would like to note that this class gets every single ToB maneuver and everything from Magic of Incarnum. Even if you can't get 9th level spells (It was posted that you could, but not the how) I'm pretty sure this hits T2 from that.

Doesn't have to, you could waste all the feats on Toughness.

Network
2014-07-24, 01:24 PM
Hope I don't get it wrong, but I tried to calculate the amount of feats the Bonus Feat would have at each level, without counting the bonus feat feat, feats from flaws, and human feats. I wanted to calculate up to 20th level, but I had an headache.


Level
Total Feats
Base Feats
Feats From Bonus Feat
Feats From Bonus Feat Mastery
Feats From Feat Redundancy


1st
4
+1
+1
+2
-


2nd
14
+0
+1
+5
+4


3rd
46
+1
+1
+16
+14


4th
140
+0
+1
+47
+46


5th
422
+0
+1
+141
+140


6th
1270
+1
+1
+424
+422


7th
3812
+0
+1
+1271
+1270


8th
11438
+0
+1
+3813
+3812


9th
34318
+1
+1
+11440
+11438


10th
102957
+0
+1
+34319
+34318



I assume here that Bonus Feat Mastery is applied after Bonus Feat and the feats you gain every three level. Since it's a 1st-level class feature, it was obviously intended to be used this way.

The end result is that, on average, the Bonus Feat triples the number of feats he has at every level, with two to four feats to spare (depending on if the level is divisible by 3 or not).

Still, I don't think anyone would take this class beyond a 1st-level dip, and then only to take metamagic feats. The solution would be for it to have spellcasting.

Sith_Happens
2014-08-01, 05:14 PM
Still, I don't think anyone would take this class beyond a 1st-level dip, and then only to take metamagic feats. The solution would be for it to have spellcasting.

YOU UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF BONUS FEATS.

1. Take Epic Spellcasting.
2. Take Skill Focus (Spellcraft) some number of times for an arbitrarily high Spellcraft modifier.
3. Take Primary Contact some number of times for an arbitrary number of epic spell slots.

Anyone know any feats that would let you get around epic spell development costs and time? Alternatively, Epic Leadership for arbitrary amounts of mitigation.

...
2014-08-01, 07:49 PM
New idea

Feat Redundancy Redundancy: At every level, you get all the feats you previously got from Feat Redundancy.

papr_weezl8472
2014-08-01, 07:52 PM
Magical Training from PGtF lets you cast some 0-level spells as a sorcerer (or wizard, but the heck with that; we've got enough feats to take Extra Spell for everything in existence). With Feat Focus, Practiced Spellcaster sets your CL to your HD. With Versatile Spellcaster + Sanctum Spell + Heighten Spell, you could burn the two cantrips/day from Magical Training to cast a prestidigitation or what have you Heightened to 1st level and counting as 2nd (in your sanctum). Now you take Extra Slot a couple of times, gaining two extra level 1 spell slots (since the highest you could cast is 2). Now you could burn those to cast a Heightened (to 2nd level) prestidigitation which counts as a 3rd-level spell in your sanctum, et cetera. Repeat until 9ths. Use Extra Spell to learn anything you want (while in your sanctum, you can cast 10th-level spells and so can nab 9ths with Extra Spell).

Leviting
2014-08-02, 01:31 AM
YOU UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF BONUS FEATS.

1. Take Epic Spellcasting.
2. Take Skill Focus (Spellcraft) some number of times for an arbitrarily high Spellcraft modifier.
3. Take Primary Contact some number of times for an arbitrary number of epic spell slots.

Anyone know any feats that would let you get around epic spell development costs and time? Alternatively, Epic Leadership for arbitrary amounts of mitigation.

Epic Leadership? Please. Legendary Commander (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#legendaryCommander). Literally 10x as many followers.

1pwny
2014-08-02, 07:11 AM
Leviting, you forgot the "[" in "[/url], so it doesn't work. :smallsmile:

Meanwhile, as for the whole Leadership thing, just get both, why don't you? You could easily spare a few feats. :smallwink:

roko10
2014-08-02, 07:30 AM
You'll end up ruling the world by level 15.

Esprit15
2014-08-03, 12:24 AM
Totally underpowered. Also, skills doesn't use 4x(INT+Y) format, unless I missed something.

roko10
2014-08-03, 02:48 AM
Totally underpowered. Also, skills doesn't use 4x(INT+Y) format, unless I missed something.

Nope.

At level 10, with Repetition and Epic Feat Mastery, a Bonus Feat can take Leadership a whopping 102957 times to practically rule over the world.

spikeof2010
2014-08-03, 08:12 AM
Feat Redundancy Redundancy added.

Prepare your recalculations.

Keledrath
2014-08-03, 11:10 AM
Nope.

At level 10, with Repetition and Epic Feat Mastery, a Bonus Feat can take Leadership a whopping 102957 times to practically rule over the world.

Also, take Open Minded once. All of your skill point problems are solved.

Network
2014-08-03, 11:29 AM
What this class really needs is an algorithm to calculate the number of feats it has. I think this can be done on LibreOffice. I'll look into it.

Edit: If my calculations are correct, the Bonus Feat has over 25 billions feats at level 20. It only had around 6 billions before getting Feat Redundancy Redundancy. Don't know how to upload the file on the forum, though.