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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Other Feat Upgrade (Fort, Ref, Will)



SpawnOfMorbo
2014-03-11, 02:01 PM
New Stuff

Great Fortitude (Fighter) (General): You calculate your Base Fortitude Save as Good Progression based on your Effective Character Level (ECL). This effect is retroactive and replaces any save progression based on classes gained. Upon gaining 8th level you never fail a Fortitude Save when you roll a natural 1. Upon gaining 16th level you may reroll a failed Fortitude Save 1/Encounter.

Iron Will (Fighter) (General): You calculate your Base Will Save as Good Progression based on your Effective Character Level (ECL). This effect is retroactive and replaces any save progression based on classes gained. Upon gaining 8th level you never fail a Will Save when you roll a natural 1. Upon gaining 16th level you may reroll a failed Will Save 1/Encounter.

Lightning Reflex (Fighter) (General): You calculate your Base ReflexSave as Good Progression based on your Effective Character Level (ECL). This effect is retroactive and replaces any save progression based on classes gained. Upon gaining 8th level you never fail a Reflex Save when you roll a natural 1. Upon gaining 16th level you may reroll a failed Reflex Save 1/Encounter.

Skilled (Fighter) (General): You recalculate your skill points at a higher rate than your peers. Recalculate your skills points as if your base skill points were 2 higher. This effect is retroactive. Example: Charles the Fighter would normally gain 2 + Int Mod skill points (X4 at first level) but because Charles has taken the Skilled feat he instead calculates his skill points as 4 + Int Mod (X4 at first level). You may take this feat multiple times but can have no higher base skill points than 8. This bonus applies to all classes taken.

Focused Skills(General): Choose two skills, these skills are always considered class skills. You gain an additional 2 skill points each level that must be spent on one of these two skills. This feat may be taken multiple times but applies to two new skills.

Improved BAB (Fighter) (General)
Prerequisite: BAB +4
Benefit: Gain your iterative attacks at BAB +4, BAB + 8, BAB +12, BAB +16, and BAB +20. Iterative attacks are at BAB -3 (instead of -5).

:smallannoyed: I need to figure out how to word these better...

===

New: This is more of a class feature for a class I'm working on based on Samurai Champloo, the "Wild Ronin". Though I'll be making a multiclass feat that will allow others to use this (potentially)

Wild Movement
Wild Ronin Level 2
Key Skill: Tumble
Benefit: Your moves are wild and unpredictable, you zig where others would zag and you bounce around when others would stand rigidly.

Anytime you make a tumble check you confuse your enemies with your movement, you gain a degree of miss chance based on your tumble check. This bonus last until the start of your next turn.

Check Result (Miss Chance)
5 (10%)
15 (20%)
25 (30%)
35 (40%)
45 (50%)
55+ (60%)

(Note: I need to adjust the check results, these are just numbers thrown out there)

Once you hit 10th level this miss chance applies against spells and effects that normally wouldn't be impeded by miss chance..

Segev
2014-03-11, 02:20 PM
I'm not sure I like making it a +4 rather than a +2, but I do like the idea of the base benefit being "good save progression if you don't have it already." I hadn't thought of that, and it seems like a neat customization that is actually worth a feat.

Seerow
2014-03-11, 03:41 PM
You're going to want to specify how this works with multiclassing.

Do you get the high save on just one class? All classes? Do you replace your base save from all classes combined with a normal high base save?

Depending on how it goes, this could really screw over certain builds, or give others some absurd saves.

Segev
2014-03-11, 03:47 PM
True; while it's easy to set it for all classes to the good track, it's not so easy to determine what to do if you have, say, a level of cleric and a level of wizard, then pick this up for Fortitude.

Would you set the Wizard track to Good, or take the +4?

If the former, what happens when you take this feat at level 1 as a cleric, then take a level of Wizard? Did you get the +4 AND now Fort be a Good save even on your Wizard levels?

Grey Watcher
2014-03-11, 04:10 PM
Maybe just make the Switch-to-the-Good-Save-Progression set distinct from the Gain-Flat-Bonus set? Admittedly, that makes the latter even suckier by comparison, but if you're looking to max out your save, I can see spending a few feats to pile on bonuses.

Maybe take the Great/Lightning/Iron Fortitude/Reflex/Will feats and combine them with Improved <ditto>? (I forget if those are in 3.5, but in Pathfinder, they let you reroll a save of the appropriate type once per day.)

As for the multiclassing issue, maybe specify that it only applies to one class that you have at the time you take the feat? Thus, you can take it as many times as you have different classes?

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-03-11, 04:20 PM
I have an idea that fixes the problems with the feat giving good progression. I'll need to reword this when I get time later but...

You gain a good xxx save progression based on your total ECL. This replaces any xxx save progression based on class. (Perhaps not prestige classes?)

This will keep shenanigans from going on but still be of use to characters who have bad saves.

Edit note: I tend to use fractional BAB and Saves so I forget about multi class shenanigans a lot of the time.

Edit2

The bonus will be gone for taking the feats twice. Instead they will grant a 1/day reroll of a failed save or a take 10. I want feats to be worth it.

BWR
2014-03-11, 04:46 PM
I just threw the base and the Improved versions into one feat, with the Improved kicking in a 5th level.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-03-12, 12:43 PM
Updated a couple things... Also a guy I know loves to use dimensional dervish... So I was wondering how mundanes could counter it.

This would be a class feature that replaces the Fighter or Monk's 4th level Bonus Feat. Barbarians and Rogues can take this but I'll have to decide later what they give up.

Disrupt Teleport (Ex) (Fighter/Monk):
Prerequisites: Fighter or Monk 4th level Bonus feat.
Benefit: The Fighter and Monk hone their senses and learn to pick up the signs of teleporting before other creaturs. Teleporting out of or into a threatened square provokes an attack of opportunity from you. This feat gives you multiple AoO equal to the number of creatures who provoke by teleporting each round.

For this purpose a bow or crossbow has a threatened range of 30 feet. A thrown weapon has a threatened range of 15 feet.

Level 8: If you hit the creature teleporting when they teleport out of a threatened square then their spell fails and the spell slot is expended wasted (no concentration check).

Level 16: If you hit the creature teleporting into a threatened square then you knock them back through the magical teleportation portal (or the strike reverses the spell due to the shock to the caster), they are back where they cast the spell and their spell slot is expended (no concentration check).

So while pretty powerful each attack has not only a 5% chance to fail (Nat 1) but has to deal with all the other problems with actually hitting casters (Miss Chance). I'll probably update Blind Fight to be relevant and an awesome choice. Probably be able to be taken from level 1 or 2.

TuggyNE
2014-03-12, 06:46 PM
Edit note: I tend to use fractional BAB and Saves so I forget about multi class shenanigans a lot of the time.

Note that fractional BAB/saves do not remove the +2 bonus for the first level of a class with a good save progression; as such, a Clr 1/Ftr 1 has a base Fort save of +4 using normal rules, +5 using fractional or +3 using the current version of this homebrew.


This feat gives you multiple AoO equal to the number of creatures who provoke by teleporting each round.

I think you mean something like "each creature that teleports provokes a separate AoO"; the feat should not also grant additional AoOs/round like Combat Reflexes does.


For this purpose a bow or crossbow has a threatened range of 30 feet. A thrown weapon has a threatened range of 15 feet.

That should, perhaps, be considered separately, since it's not really a crucial part of the feat.


Level 8: If you hit the creature teleporting when they teleport out of a threatened square then their spell fails and the spell slot is expended wasted (no concentration check).

Level 16: If you hit the creature teleporting into a threatened square then you knock them back through the magical teleportation portal (or the strike reverses the spell due to the shock to the caster), they are back where they cast the spell and their spell slot is expended (no concentration check).

Anything that's "X does not happen, no save, no damage rolled, no nothing" is dubious. Instead, I'd suggest increasing the Concentration DC by 5 or 10. A Wiz 20 or pit fiend getting hit by a dagger thrown by a level 4 Fighter and completely losing their greater teleport in all cases with no chance to maintain it is just weird.

Pyromancer999
2014-03-12, 10:40 PM
Here's a cleaned up version of the original feats, from the other thread, with some wording changed:

Great Fortitude [Fighter]
Benefit: Your Fortitude Save changes to the Good progression. The benefit of this feat is retroactive, and changes your existing bonus to Fortitude saves from class progression. If you already have a Good Fortitude save, you gain +4 bonus to Fortitude Saves.

Special: If you chose this feat and gained the Good progression benefit, you may select this feat again to gain the +4 bonus to Fortitude saves.


Iron Will [Fighter]
Benefit: Your Will Save changes to the Good progression. The benefit of this feat is retroactive, and changes your existing bonus to Will saves from class progression. If you already have a Good Will save, you gain +4 bonus to Will Saves.

Special: If you chose this feat and gained the Good progression benefit, you may select this feat again to gain the +4 bonus to Will saves.


Lightning Reflexes [Fighter]
Benefit: Your Reflex Save changes to the Good progression. The benefit of this feat is retroactive, and changes your existing bonus to Reflex saves from class progression. If you already have a Good Reflex save, you gain +4 bonus to Reflex Saves.

Special: If you chose this feat and gained the Good progression benefit, you may select this feat again to gain the +4 bonus to Reflex saves.

Removed the [General] tag, as the [Fighter] tag just notes that fighters can take it as a bonus feat, not that only fighters can take it.


I have an idea that fixes the problems with the feat giving good progression. I'll need to reword this when I get time later but...

You gain a good xxx save progression based on your total ECL. This replaces any xxx save progression based on class. (Perhaps not prestige classes?)

This will keep shenanigans from going on but still be of use to characters who have bad saves.

Bit confusing. How about this wording:

For your () save bonus based on class levels, you either use your own () save bonus or the bonus of a Good progression for that save of a single-classed character of your level(ex. Johnny McSamplecharacter is a Fighter 7/Wizard 1. His Will save bonus from class levels is +4(+2 from Fighter, +2 from Wizard). He takes the Iron Will feat. His bonus is now +6, as it would be if he were a single-classed level 8 character with a Good Will save).

It's a bit long, but conveys the point well enough, I think.



The bonus will be gone for taking the feats twice. Instead they will grant a 1/day reroll of a failed save or a take 10. I want feats to be worth it.

Maybe have an Improved line for these feats like in Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-lightning-reflexes---final) for the rerolls. Re-rolls are valuable. Taking 10 on a save could potentially be even more valuable to the point of possible abuse.

Perhaps instead allow this feat to grant people with already good save progressions to never instantly fail on a die roll of 1 for that save, and a +2-3 bonus on all saves of that kind?

Edit: Just granting a re-roll at 8th level is a bit powerful, yeah. See earlier points.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-03-14, 01:40 PM
Here's a cleaned up version of the original feats, from the other thread, with some wording changed:

Great Fortitude [Fighter]
Benefit: Your Fortitude Save changes to the Good progression. The benefit of this feat is retroactive, and changes your existing bonus to Fortitude saves from class progression. If you already have a Good Fortitude save, you gain +4 bonus to Fortitude Saves.

Special: If you chose this feat and gained the Good progression benefit, you may select this feat again to gain the +4 bonus to Fortitude saves.


Iron Will [Fighter]
Benefit: Your Will Save changes to the Good progression. The benefit of this feat is retroactive, and changes your existing bonus to Will saves from class progression. If you already have a Good Will save, you gain +4 bonus to Will Saves.

Special: If you chose this feat and gained the Good progression benefit, you may select this feat again to gain the +4 bonus to Will saves.


Lightning Reflexes [Fighter]
Benefit: Your Reflex Save changes to the Good progression. The benefit of this feat is retroactive, and changes your existing bonus to Reflex saves from class progression. If you already have a Good Reflex save, you gain +4 bonus to Reflex Saves.

Special: If you chose this feat and gained the Good progression benefit, you may select this feat again to gain the +4 bonus to Reflex saves.

Removed the [General] tag, as the [Fighter] tag just notes that fighters can take it as a bonus feat, not that only fighters can take it.


Bit confusing. How about this wording:

For your () save bonus based on class levels, you either use your own () save bonus or the bonus of a Good progression for that save of a single-classed character of your level(ex. Johnny McSamplecharacter is a Fighter 7/Wizard 1. His Will save bonus from class levels is +4(+2 from Fighter, +2 from Wizard). He takes the Iron Will feat. His bonus is now +6, as it would be if he were a single-classed level 8 character with a Good Will save).

It's a bit long, but conveys the point well enough, I think.



Maybe have an Improved line for these feats like in Pathfinder (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/improved-lightning-reflexes---final) for the rerolls. Re-rolls are valuable. Taking 10 on a save could potentially be even more valuable to the point of possible abuse.

Perhaps instead allow this feat to grant people with already good save progressions to never instantly fail on a die roll of 1 for that save, and a +2-3 bonus on all saves of that kind?

Edit: Just granting a re-roll at 8th level is a bit powerful, yeah. See earlier points.

Well I updated the wording using ECL, cleaned it up a bit. I don't actually want to offer an improved xxx feat. I hate feat chains and I want to make each feat an obvious good choice if that is what you are going for (a good save progression).

I may change them to..

Level 8: You no longer fail XXX Saves on a natural 1

Level 16: 1/Encounter you may reroll a failed XXX save. You must rest at least for five minutes before regaining this ability again.

(Yeah a little ToB/4e, but it is the good parts of ToB/4e :) ). This makes these feats worth taking at any level AND these feats will be worth taking unlike many many other feats.