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View Full Version : Which D&D Edition, and what supplies, would be best for a group of new players?



SomaSam
2014-03-31, 10:02 PM
Just as a disclaimer, I did a search, and manually looked through several pages for recent posts on this issue. I did not find any similar posts so I am making my own here.

My friends and I have been getting interested in starting our own D&D game. This is going to be a first time for almost all of us. One of my friends has played the game before (He believes it was 3.5 edition), and I have read this comic in its entirety (which as far as I know, has taken place in 3.5e), but this is the only experience we have with D&D.

I have a decent grasp on 3.5 edition and only a rough idea of the 4th, so I would really appreciate hearing what you guys think. (But keep it civil if you would.)

From what I have heard:
3.5 Edition: Has Quadratic Wizards, linear warriors (for better or worse). Classes are more "distinguished" from one another. Wizards are limited to a # of spells per day of each level, while Psions are limited by PP. It has a much more open ended multi-classing/prestige system. Contains rules for non-combat stuff; like crafting non-magical objects, NPC classes, and general profession skills. You can use magic items when ever you want if you have the means. Truenamer is OP :smalltongue:.

4th edition: All classes are "balanced" (For better or worse). This is done by giving them a collection of powers instead of spells or abilities, which can be used at will, once per encounter, or daily. Everything that happens is based on series of encounters. It is more focused on the battles. Improves on the "flow" of battles. Introduces roles in combat. As it is the more recent of the two, its handbooks are easier to acquire.

From what I know, I would have to say that I am more inclined to get 3.5 edition. BUT AGAIN, this is just what I know from some basic, second hand research. I have not played either edition, which is why I am asking you guys.

What I would like to know:
A) Is there any false/missing information that would be useful for me to know?

B) Which edition do you personally think we should get?

C) What do we need? There is a TON of stuff out there for D&D, for both editions. What are the most important/helpful things that a bunch of brand new players would need? I am referring to everything: Dice, Handbooks, guidebooks, figurines?, maps, websites, anything. (Assume I don't already know about any D&D equipment) (Money isn't too much of any issue, but the cheaper the better.)

D) Is it worth it to wait for 5th Edition to come out? Or should we just stick with what is already out?

And thank you for taking your time to read over this. I greatly appreciate it and hope to be able to enjoy D&D with my friends.

Kaun
2014-03-31, 10:20 PM
All the editions have their good points and there bad.

And a lot of the issues you are talking about only become apparent after extended play or after reading too many forums.

No matter what edition you choose you will only require the Players handbook, Dungeon masters guide and Monster Manual.

I would go with 4e, for my mind its a little easier to get into for new DM's.

I wouldn't over stress it though, make your choice based on which ever books are easier and cheaper to acquire. You will more then likely have the same amount of enjoyment out of any edition, especially if your new to the game.

Seerow
2014-03-31, 10:27 PM
I prefer 3.5 myself, but for a set of new players (especially with a new DM), I'd recommend 4th, mostly because it's easier to run.


As for what you need, a set of dice each (and maybe some extra D6s. Raid your old Yahtzee game if you're cheap), the core books (If DDI is still running, get a sub to that and share among the group, and just grab one copy of the core books for the DM + sharing at the table), and some graph paper+pencils. A battlemat/miniatures can be nice, but are not necessary at all, and not worth the buy in when you're just getting into it.

obryn
2014-03-31, 10:40 PM
I prefer 4th overall, and that goes double for new players. For 4e, you can download some quick rules and an adventure for free (http://www.dndclassics.com/product/110212/H1-Keep-on-the-Shadowfell--QuickStart-Rules-4e), which is pretty cool.

However, both 3.5 and 4e have fairly sharp learning curves, which sucks if you find them not to your liking. I would find it hard to recommend either to a completely novice group of gamers, especially if there's nobody experienced to hold your hand through the process.

So why not go with the classics for a first foray into D&D?

Give Dark Dungeons (http://www.gratisgames.webspace.virginmedia.com/darkdungeons.html) a look. It's a free retro-clone of one of the better oldschool versions of D&D, fun to play, and easy to get into.

Kaun
2014-03-31, 10:42 PM
As for what you need, a set of dice each (and maybe some extra D6s.

Ow yeah, dice and stuff. heh. i always forget to remind new players of this kinda thing.

the ol' Pound of Dice (http://www.amazon.com/Chessex-001LBCHX-Pound-O-Dice/dp/B008C0KXYS) never goes a stray there, especially if everybody is new.

Knaight
2014-03-31, 10:50 PM
Does it have to be D&D, or is it RPGs in general? They tend to be used as if there are synonymous terms outside of the hobby, but there are a lot of non-D&D RPGs.

Seerow
2014-03-31, 11:01 PM
Ow yeah, dice and stuff. heh. i always forget to remind new players of this kinda thing.

the ol' Pound of Dice (http://www.amazon.com/Chessex-001LBCHX-Pound-O-Dice/dp/B008C0KXYS) never goes a stray there, especially if everybody is new.

Thanks for reminding me of that. I've been meaning to buy a pound, I recently bought a fresh crown royal bag (came with some whiskey, too. Best deal), and need something to fill it with.




Speaking of, does anyone know of where you can find pouches just big enough for a single set of dice to fit in?

Rhynn
2014-03-31, 11:26 PM
Any retroclone. Check out my signature, download the free ones, and see which one you like best, then try that. There's not a whole mess of supplements, etc., for them, so you don't need to worry about that - all you need is the core rules, paper, pencils, erasers, and dice.

They're generally simple, straightforward, and easy to play, and get at the core of the D&D experience without all the nonsense 3E and 4E have.

Kaun
2014-03-31, 11:32 PM
Thanks for reminding me of that. I've been meaning to buy a pound, I recently bought a fresh crown royal bag (came with some whiskey, too. Best deal), and need something to fill it with.




Speaking of, does anyone know of where you can find pouches just big enough for a single set of dice to fit in?

what like This? (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Velvet-Dice-Satin-Lining/dp/B001602IOO/ref=pd_sim_t_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1AQFWSKKPGK4SK52N81W)

Seerow
2014-03-31, 11:37 PM
what like This? (http://www.amazon.com/Black-Velvet-Dice-Satin-Lining/dp/B001602IOO/ref=pd_sim_t_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=1AQFWSKKPGK4SK52N81W)

That's a 5x8 bag. A 4x6 bag will hold about 3 sets of dice, so ideally I'm looking for something smaller than that. This (http://www.amazon.com/3-75X4-Black-Velvet-Satin-Lining/dp/B001602IHQ/ref=pd_sim_t_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=18DENMSZF511S2JM02N0) is closer to what I'm looking for (size of 3.75x4), but every bag I can find that size is variants of the same thing. I was hoping to find something like Chessex's dice bags (just plain cloth in a variety of different colors), in that size, but my google fu has failed to turn up anything else. I may end up just buying a handful of those with different colored interiors if I don't find them. Or just craft my own (but I am looking to get like 10 or so, and that seems like it'll be a lot of effort when I'd rather just drop 20-30 bucks and call it done).


Edit: In case anyone else was curious found a pretty good deal here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/25x-Velvet-Jewelry-Gift-Bag-Pouch-7x9cm-2-8-x3-5-/321358827893?pt=Games_US&hash=item4ad27a9175). 25 pouches just big enough for 1 set (check the guy's other auctions, he uses them as packaging for one dice sets he sells) for $5.00. Still all one color, but it seems that for tiny dice bags, the rule of the day is any color you want so long as it's black.

Grac
2014-04-01, 02:43 AM
I support going with a retroclone. Not only is it cheaper, but if you go with a retroclone based on original D&D, or B/X, you will get a much simpler game than any of the more modern ones can give you, which will be great for beginners.

To that end, Labrynth Lord (http://www.goblinoidgames.com/labyrinthlord.html), which has a free version with no art, available
And my favourite, Adventurer, Conqueror, King (http://autarch.co/buy-now), which costs $10 for a PDF and is (almost) a whole RPG in one book, missing only rules for mass combat.
The Rules Cyclopedia (http://www.rpgnow.com/product/17171/DD-Rules-Cyclopedia-Basic?it=1&) edition of D&D is the most complete single book ever made for RPGs, and it's also available for $10. While ACKS is my favourite RPG, the Rules Cyclopedia is my favourite RPG book. It is as complete as you can need a game to be.

These games are cheap, much more simple than the Advanced line, so easier for new players to get into, and just great.

theNater
2014-04-01, 02:51 AM
Of the two systems, I would recommend 4e for beginners. The balance makes it much easier for a DM to construct an appropriate challenge, and the (relative) uniformity of mechanics should make it easier to learn.

The more flexible multiclassing provided by 3.5 is unlikely to be helpful to new players, as the character concepts new players have are usually representable by a single class in any case. Note also that both versions basically assume you'll be spending most of your time in Dungeons fighting monsters(such as Dragons). If your party expects to spend a lot of their time engaging in crafting and other non-adventuring professions, D&D is probably the wrong system.

Yora
2014-04-01, 05:55 AM
Any retroclone. Check out my signature, download the free ones, and see which one you like best, then try that. There's not a whole mess of supplements, etc., for them, so you don't need to worry about that - all you need is the core rules, paper, pencils, erasers, and dice.

They're generally simple, straightforward, and easy to play, and get at the core of the D&D experience without all the nonsense 3E and 4E have.
I just started a game with basically all new players. One has played a bit of Pathfinder and another some DSA, but they all had no problems at all getting Castles & Crusades after I guided them through the steps of character creation and the first few fights. We're now switching to Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea, which is an even simpler system. It's pretty much a very cleaned up version of 1st Edition that is much more readable than the original game. Changing from attack matrixes to Base Attack Bonus is the only real change I made.

I think it's a much better choice than 4rd Edition/Pathfinder, especially for new players. There's just a lot less things to worry about and track. You chose your race and your class, create ability scores, and pick your weapon and armor. And then you're ready to go, with no need to consider further character development.

Kiero
2014-04-01, 07:15 AM
Forget published editions bearing the D&D branding. You're better off with D&D-derived games, which are cheaper (requiring only one book in the main) and much easier to get to grips with.

If you like an older school feel, try Adventurer, Conqueror, King. If you want something more modern in its design, give The 13th Age a go. Can't go wrong with either of those two.

Ansem
2014-04-01, 07:19 AM
Don't choose 4e just because it's easier to learn, because that's the biggest bull**** excuse used for playing that edition. People also learn and start with other editions and they are doing fine too, pick 4e if you like equality in classes and a more videogamish feel to combat, not because it's faster to learn because I'm willing to set down money I can teach a group 3e or AD&D faster than they can learn 4e.

DawnRaven
2014-04-01, 07:40 AM
I'll second the recommendation to try 13th age to start. Its rules provide loose ideas to help new players get into the roleplay (backgrounds, icon relationships, one unique thing), has a more modern expectation (heroes are protagonists who should be cool and awesome) with relatively simplistic combat rules. Classes are more varied than 4th while maintaining a better balance at low levels than 3rd edition. 13th Age was created by two of the lead designers in 4th and 3rd edition working together, so it has name recognition with its authors.

The basic rules for 13th age are provided for free here (http://www.pelgranepress.com/?p=13316) while you can get the core book (which contains an adventure, monsters, items, character creation information and information on how to DM) on their website here (http://www.pelgranepress.com/shop/).

As for what supplies you would need to play, I'd recommend a dice set for each player plus yourself. It is likely cheaper to purchase a Chessex bag of dice (linked above by another poster). You do not need a grid map to play or any miniatures (highly recommended to required for 3rd and 4th edition of D&D). You'll want some paper for everyone as well as a character sheet (http://www.pelgranepress.com/files/13thAge_Plain_CharacterSheet.pdf) for each player. I also recommend getting a large d6 for the escalation die in 13th age. I do not have a link to a good large d6, but you can find them at most game shops. Chessex seems to have both 20mm and 30mm sized d6's for 2-3 dollars.

CombatOwl
2014-04-01, 07:54 AM
My friends and I have been getting interested in starting our own D&D game. This is going to be a first time for almost all of us. One of my friends has played the game before (He believes it was 3.5 edition), and I have read this comic in its entirety (which as far as I know, has taken place in 3.5e), but this is the only experience we have with D&D.

I have a decent grasp on 3.5 edition and only a rough idea of the 4th, so I would really appreciate hearing what you guys think. (But keep it civil if you would.)

From what I have heard:
3.5 Edition: Has Quadratic Wizards, linear warriors (for better or worse). Classes are more "distinguished" from one another. Wizards are limited to a # of spells per day of each level, while Psions are limited by PP. It has a much more open ended multi-classing/prestige system. Contains rules for non-combat stuff; like crafting non-magical objects, NPC classes, and general profession skills. You can use magic items when ever you want if you have the means. Truenamer is OP :smalltongue:.

4th edition: All classes are "balanced" (For better or worse). This is done by giving them a collection of powers instead of spells or abilities, which can be used at will, once per encounter, or daily. Everything that happens is based on series of encounters. It is more focused on the battles. Improves on the "flow" of battles. Introduces roles in combat. As it is the more recent of the two, its handbooks are easier to acquire.

From what I know, I would have to say that I am more inclined to get 3.5 edition. BUT AGAIN, this is just what I know from some basic, second hand research. I have not played either edition, which is why I am asking you guys.

What I would like to know:
A) Is there any false/missing information that would be useful for me to know?

B) Which edition do you personally think we should get?

C) What do we need? There is a TON of stuff out there for D&D, for both editions. What are the most important/helpful things that a bunch of brand new players would need? I am referring to everything: Dice, Handbooks, guidebooks, figurines?, maps, websites, anything. (Assume I don't already know about any D&D equipment) (Money isn't too much of any issue, but the cheaper the better.)

D) Is it worth it to wait for 5th Edition to come out? Or should we just stick with what is already out?

And thank you for taking your time to read over this. I greatly appreciate it and hope to be able to enjoy D&D with my friends.

Are you married to D&D? There are a lot of newer games that are less expensive, easier to learn, and far easier to play. As others have mentioned, there are a lot of d&d retroclones that mimic the style of first or second edition. Alternately, newer games like Savage Worlds or Fate can do the same genre well but aren't nearly so hard to get into. If your group is wanting to do D&D because they want to get into the hobby as a whole, other games may be better starting points--savage worlds in particular is easy to learn, easy to run, and has a large selection of very interesting and well witten settings.

That said, 3.5e is very complicated and highly tactical--and requires a lot of DM effort to put a campaign together. 4e is significantly easier to run. If you can get a set of 4e Essentials books that is certainly the best starting point for getting into 4e. That uses the most recent versions of the rules an the classes follow a more current design philosophy. Alternately, if you want to do "3.5", you are certainly better off with Pathfinder than by wotc's 3.5.

B) 4e Essentials or Pathfinder.

C) Access to a printer, one of the aforementioned pounds of dice (maybe two if the group is large), lots and lots of paper, pencils, enough copies of the core book for half the players to have one and one for the DM alone. If the game has a Dungeon Master Guide or something like it you need one for the DM, the DM will want a binder and some way to put handwritten loose leaf pages into it (sheet protectors, hole punch and paper grommets, etc), possibly also color coded section markers for the binder. Depending on the game, you may also need the first bestiary. If you run Pathfinder, you can get the monsters you need from the online srd. Incidentally, the Pathfinder SRD is complete enough that both GM and players can run entirely from the SRD without books of they wanted.

You will want a map and miniatures/tokens for 3.5e/Pathfinder, but you will require map and Minis for 4th edition. Retroclones are usually playable without a battle map. Savage worlds doesn't need a map, but you may want minis, a tape measure, a deck of cards, and a few dozen poker chips or pennies. Fate needs neither map nor minis, but you will want a lot of index cards. Fate can also make use of "special" fudge dice, but it works just as well with normal numbered d6s.

- - - Updated - - -


My friends and I have been getting interested in starting our own D&D game. This is going to be a first time for almost all of us. One of my friends has played the game before (He believes it was 3.5 edition), and I have read this comic in its entirety (which as far as I know, has taken place in 3.5e), but this is the only experience we have with D&D.

I have a decent grasp on 3.5 edition and only a rough idea of the 4th, so I would really appreciate hearing what you guys think. (But keep it civil if you would.)

From what I have heard:
3.5 Edition: Has Quadratic Wizards, linear warriors (for better or worse). Classes are more "distinguished" from one another. Wizards are limited to a # of spells per day of each level, while Psions are limited by PP. It has a much more open ended multi-classing/prestige system. Contains rules for non-combat stuff; like crafting non-magical objects, NPC classes, and general profession skills. You can use magic items when ever you want if you have the means. Truenamer is OP :smalltongue:.

4th edition: All classes are "balanced" (For better or worse). This is done by giving them a collection of powers instead of spells or abilities, which can be used at will, once per encounter, or daily. Everything that happens is based on series of encounters. It is more focused on the battles. Improves on the "flow" of battles. Introduces roles in combat. As it is the more recent of the two, its handbooks are easier to acquire.

From what I know, I would have to say that I am more inclined to get 3.5 edition. BUT AGAIN, this is just what I know from some basic, second hand research. I have not played either edition, which is why I am asking you guys.

What I would like to know:
A) Is there any false/missing information that would be useful for me to know?

B) Which edition do you personally think we should get?

C) What do we need? There is a TON of stuff out there for D&D, for both editions. What are the most important/helpful things that a bunch of brand new players would need? I am referring to everything: Dice, Handbooks, guidebooks, figurines?, maps, websites, anything. (Assume I don't already know about any D&D equipment) (Money isn't too much of any issue, but the cheaper the better.)

D) Is it worth it to wait for 5th Edition to come out? Or should we just stick with what is already out?

And thank you for taking your time to read over this. I greatly appreciate it and hope to be able to enjoy D&D with my friends.

Are you married to D&D? There are a lot of newer games that are less expensive, easier to learn, and far easier to play. As others have mentioned, there are a lot of d&d retroclones that mimic the style of first or second edition. Alternately, newer games like Savage Worlds or Fate can do the same genre well but aren't nearly so hard to get into. If your group is wanting to do D&D because they want to get into the hobby as a whole, other games may be better starting points--savage worlds in particular is easy to learn, easy to run, and has a large selection of very interesting and well witten settings.

That said, 3.5e is very complicated and highly tactical--and requires a lot of DM effort to put a campaign together. 4e is significantly easier to run. If you can get a set of 4e Essentials books that is certainly the best starting point for getting into 4e. That uses the most recent versions of the rules an the classes follow a more current design philosophy. Alternately, if you want to do "3.5", you are certainly better off with Pathfinder than by wotc's 3.5.

B) 4e Essentials or Pathfinder.

C) Access to a printer, one of the aforementioned pounds of dice (maybe two if the group is large), lots and lots of paper, pencils, enough copies of the core book for half the players to have one and one for the DM alone. If the game has a Dungeon Master Guide or something like it you need one for the DM, the DM will want a binder and some way to put handwritten loose leaf pages into it (sheet protectors, hole punch and paper grommets, etc), possibly also color coded section markers for the binder. Depending on the game, you may also need the first bestiary. If you run Pathfinder, you can get the monsters you need from the online srd. Incidentally, the Pathfinder SRD is complete enough that both GM and players can run entirely from the SRD without books of they wanted.

You will want a map and miniatures/tokens for 3.5e/Pathfinder, but you will require map and Minis for 4th edition. Retroclones are usually playable without a battle map. Savage worlds doesn't need a map, but you may want minis, a tape measure, a deck of cards, and a few dozen poker chips or pennies. Fate needs neither map nor minis, but you will want a lot of index cards. Fate can also make use of "special" fudge dice, but it works just as well with normal numbered d6s.

neonchameleon
2014-04-01, 08:28 AM
What are your other hobbies and what experience do you want out of the game? Different versions of D&D do different things well.

Rhynn
2014-04-01, 08:36 AM
Aa lot of d&d retroclones that mimic the style of first or second edition

Well, actually, they mimic 1st through 5th edition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?287020-what-versions-in-what-order&p=15389011#post15389011), and in a few rare cases 6th edition (that's AD&D 2E)... :smallbiggrin:

I know, I'm a horrible nitpicker, but "1st and 2nd edition D&D" is so very vague and inaccurate... especially when retroclones come in at least five major and distinct varieties (Original, Basic or B/X, BECM, AD&D 1E, and AD&D 2E), plus all the ones that fall between editions or do something else altogether (like Dungeon Crawl Classics). And AD&D retroclones are a minority (numerically; OSRIC is probably one of the most popular ones).

Yora
2014-04-01, 08:38 AM
There is a very wide range of options to chose from. To recommend a specific one, it's best to summarize what elements of certain editions you do like and dislike.

Airk
2014-04-01, 09:51 AM
Well, actually, they mimic 1st through 5th edition (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?287020-what-versions-in-what-order&p=15389011#post15389011), and in a few rare cases 6th edition (that's AD&D 2E)... :smallbiggrin:

I know, I'm a horrible nitpicker, but "1st and 2nd edition D&D" is so very vague and inaccurate... especially when retroclones come in at least five major and distinct varieties (Original, Basic or B/X, BECM, AD&D 1E, and AD&D 2E), plus all the ones that fall between editions or do something else altogether (like Dungeon Crawl Classics). And AD&D retroclones are a minority (numerically; OSRIC is probably one of the most popular ones).

Well, if you can take a break from being a horrible nitpicker for a moment, could you find time to go into more detail about which retroclones come with things like, say, a starter adventure, that beginner players might find useful? Having at least one 'module' (that they don't have to "convert" or "adjust" or whatever from a different version of a game that may only share the basic stats) can be a huge boon for people who are trying to get their legs under them, and saying "Just pick a game from this big list!" is likely to just lead the OP to buy one of his original choices.

theNater
2014-04-01, 10:47 AM
Don't choose 4e just because it's easier to learn, because that's the biggest bull**** excuse used for playing that edition. People also learn and start with other editions and they are doing fine too, pick 4e if you like equality in classes and a more videogamish feel to combat, not because it's faster to learn because I'm willing to set down money I can teach a group 3e or AD&D faster than they can learn 4e.
Assuming equally competent teachers and a brand new gaming group, I am confident that the group can learn 4e faster than 3e. A major factor in this is that all powers work the same way, so you don't have to cover all the fiddly bits of spellcasting before players can make informed decisions.

Dienekes
2014-04-01, 11:10 AM
If you're stuck to D&D, I would suggest 4e. Even though I vastly prefer 3.5 derivatives, 4e is simpler for new players to pick up.

If you're willing to expand outside the D&D brand, I would suggest Warrior, Rogue & Mage (http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/). It's very simple, all you really need is a d6 or two per player. And it's free.

The only problem with it I have is, well, it's too simple for me. Magic has a nice list of spells (though not nearly as bloated as any D&D edition), while mundane combat has only a small handful of talents. The good news is, it takes about 10 seconds to write up new talents.

neonchameleon
2014-04-01, 12:30 PM
Don't choose 4e just because it's easier to learn, because that's the biggest bull**** excuse used for playing that edition. People also learn and start with other editions and they are doing fine too, pick 4e if you like equality in classes and a more videogamish feel to combat, not because it's faster to learn because I'm willing to set down money I can teach a group 3e or AD&D faster than they can learn 4e.

1: If I want a videogamish feel I'm going to pick 2e - Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment all the way. On the other hand if I want an action movie and kinaesthetic feel to my combat I'll go 4e.

2: That depends what level you want to teach the game at. If you don't care if the players know the rules then yes you can - but that's hardly teaching the players the game. If you want the players to be able to handle the rules of the characters, and to not have to stop the game for looking in books, 4e is probably cleaner than the Rules Cyclopaedia - AD&D and 3.X are both very awkward here. (But come to think of it if you're teaching you'll teach fastest when teaching what you know).

Forrestfire
2014-04-01, 01:11 PM
Speaking purely from my experience:

3.5: It's a ridiculously tangled set of rules, a good amount of which don't work as intended, and the rest of which work badly. As a whole, it's extremely fun for what it's good at (Fantasy Superheroes), but has issues with the caster/noncaster disparity, rocket tag in combat, having way too many rules for its own good, and heavily rewarding system mastery and punishing those who aren't as good at it (or don't have help). I love the edition, and prefer to play it if I can, but I wouldn't suggest it to a new group unless that's what the DM wanted to run.

What you need: The SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/) (which includes the three Core Rulebooks, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, and some other books you probably won't use for a while) and dice. A battle map can be useful, but I've gone without it just as much as I've used one. Suggested other books to have are the Tome of Battle. Most options can be found transcribed onto D&D Tools (http://dndtools.eu/) or http://www.realmshelps.net/Realms Helps, but sifting through them all will probably involve a handbook or two, or someone helping.

Pathfinder: Keeps most of all of the flaws of 3.5, but then fixes a few things while furthering the caster/noncaster imbalance. I wouldn't suggest it, honestly, unless you're mining the SRD (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/) for neat stuff for another game.

Stuff you need: The SRD. It's got almost every Pathfinder book uploaded, and all the third-party stuff I've seen.

4th Edition: From what I've played in a single campaign, it's also really fun. The myth about classes all being samey is definitely wrong, since most of them are fairly distinct, even if the power system might seem to say otherwise. As a tactical skirmish game, but you might run into issues if you want it to be more simulationist. Presumably, encounter balance is a bit easier because the numbers are predictable instead of all over the place, which would make it easier on the DM. Do note that while a lot of people call it "videogamey", that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's very good at combat, so if that's what you're looking for, it might be the best choice.

Stuff you need: Dice, access to the books or D&D insider, and a battle map, as the combat is very grid-based. Miniatures are optional, but might be neat to have.

Legend: (http://www.ruleofcool.com/) Something of a mix between 3.5 and 4e. It's a fairly well-built system based on 3.5 that fixes a lot of the latter's flaws, and is probably one of my favorite game systems out there. Its major draw is the sheer versatility of character creation and the game, as well as knowing what it's good at and sticking to it (it doesn't try to be a gritty oregon trail-style game, it's about badass heroes, etc), but it sadly doesn't have a monster book yet, so it's much more work for the DM. Relatively simple to learn compared to 3.5, though, and fairly awesome in general. Supposedly an updated version of the rules is coming soon, but I wouldn't wait up for it.

Stuff you need: Legend Core Rulebook (free PDF download) and dice, The forums have a lot of neat homebrew, and they have an IRC channel (https://gamesurge.net/chat/legend) if you ever need help.

I suggest going with 4e D&D, if only because it's probably a bit easier to set up without falling into rules tangles or being overwhelmed by the sheer amount of material available. 3.5 and Pathfinder both share similar issues that probably make them less-than-ideal for a new DM and players. Honestly, I like Legend the best, but there's a huge amount of work shoved onto the DM because all the monsters need to be built from scratch, or made up as you go.

Snowbluff
2014-04-01, 01:25 PM
I'd suggest 4e. I'm more of a 3.5 guy myself, but I know first hand that newer groups and players deal with 4e better.

Knaight
2014-04-01, 01:39 PM
I support going with a retroclone. Not only is it cheaper, but if you go with a retroclone based on original D&D, or B/X, you will get a much simpler game than any of the more modern ones can give you, which will be great for beginners.

If by "more modern ones" you mean more modern editions of D&D, then yes. Otherwise, I can easily think of dozens of modern games that are just as simple, and often better written.

Speaking of which: Chronica Feudalis would be an excellent starting game. It's got some meat to it, and is hardly minimalist, but it's still simple enough to be easy to handle. It's also something like one ten dollar book total, which is nice.