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Catharsis
2007-02-07, 07:21 AM
I kinda like the idea of a double-weapon Kensai, since he can imbue both ends separately, switching between flurry and two-handed power attack according to the situation. I'd probably start with Ranger 2/Fallen Paladin 1/Ftr 2 in order to get TWF, some decent skills and full BAB. The Paladin is there to give me the 5 ranks of Diplomacy I need for Kensai, and it also makes for a nice roleplay hook. Here are some questions about this concept:

If I were to make, say, a +4 defending/+1 flaming frost shock quarterstaff, could I attack with the second end as a two-handed weapon and still get the bonus of the first end?
Is Quick Staff a decent combat style feat? I'd have to take Dodge as a prereq, so I guess not... but it would synergize nicely with the abovementioned defensive combo, provided it works.
Is the double-bladed sword worth an exotic feat? I presume not... but the quarterstaff feels very weak. At least it has a useful damage type.
What feats would you recommend? Nothing too funky, stick with core and the less-than-cheesy parts of the complete series. I'm actually tempted to take Iron Will, since I have a +0 Will save until level 6! (I'd be entering the game around that level, though.) I can't take Combat Focus, since I have to leave Wis at 10.

GenLee
2007-02-07, 09:08 AM
How's your Int? Look into Combat Expertise, it can make up for your lack of shield. I'm running a Bloodhound (thus preferring to take prisoners), and I've become the #2 line fighter in our group. Expertise leads to Imp. Disarm, which has been fun on occasion. C. Expertise helps on those early rounds to slog through the enemy's reach to get up close and go full attack on them-- I'm up to 5/round right now.
I've thought long and hard about Quickstaff, but since this PC predates C. Warrior, I didn't know to take Dodge, and I don't have that many fighter feats that I will go back for it. I wish I had from the beginning, though.
Work on the TW chain, to bump up the # of attacks.

Bears With Lasers
2007-02-07, 09:11 AM
Forget Iron Will; take Endurance and Steadfast Determination from the PHBII. That'll let your Will, Fort, and Reflex (the Kensai's Withstand ability at Kensai 5) saves run off Con.

Catharsis
2007-02-07, 10:28 AM
Here are the stats I had in mind: STR 17, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 13, WIS 10, CHA 8. I would be starting at 4th level or higher, so I'd actually get 18 STR.

Steadfast Determination: I thought about that, but I guess I'd have to switch Dex and Con to get a nice enough bonus. Also, it would cost me 2 feats, unless I take 3 Ranger levels to get Endurance for free (and a +1 base Will save, come to think of it). So I'd end up with Ranger 3/Pal 1/Ftr 1,
giving me 4 feats apart from the free TWF and Endurance: Weapon Spec, Combat Expertise, Steadfast Determination, Power Attack. One problem here though is that 1) my Dex is too bad for ITFW, and 2) I have to wear light armor for this to work, for which my Dex is rather pitiful.

On the other hand, if I were to go Pal 1/Ftr 4 with the original stats, I'd get 5 feats and no freebies. Weapon Focus, Combat Expertise, Power Attack, TWF, then either go Dodge+Quickstaff or Endurance+Steadfast by level 6. Pretty much the same loadout as before, but with less skill points, less Reflex save and better AC (I have +3 Dex and can wear a breastplate/mithral full plate).

Hmm, tough decisions, especially considering the alternative of just going with the greatsword or falchion and forgetting the TWF thing.

PnP Fan
2007-02-07, 10:58 AM
Just a casual drive by suggestion. . . you might consider some kind of fighter-monk combo. Staff is a monk weapon, so you get your flurry of blows ability with it (which is basically two weapon fighting by the numbers), and you don't have to spend feats on that stuff. Fighter for the aforementioned feats. Your BAB will be a little low, by maybe 1 point. Don't have the books in front of me now, so I'm not sure how monk damage works with monk weapons. Oh, and the levels of Monk will help aleviate some of your saving throw concerns. Just a thought, though I'd need pen and paper to see how it would work out.
I completely enjoyed the kensai I played, and I'm sure you will too.

Catharsis
2007-02-07, 11:14 AM
I don't think my stats are good enough to cater to the MADness of a monk. If I'm willing to reduce the Str from 17 to 15, I free up a lot of points, though. My expected two-handed damage would drop to 1d6+4, which is extremely low, considering my current character (which the Kensai would replace in case of death or continuing suckage) is the party's Strength Guy.

Finally, I'd have to wait one more level to go into Kensai, due to the BAB loss. If I want that, I might as well take Cleric 4/Ftr 2 instead. I can keep the Wis as low as 12, still get to cast Enlarge Person, Bear's Endurance etc., get the benefit of two domains, and have no AC problems at all.

Actually, that's not such a bad idea...

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-07, 11:20 AM
See if you can get your DM to let you finesse a quaterstaff. Mine did.

Catharsis
2007-02-07, 11:45 AM
See if you can get your DM to let you finesse a quaterstaff. Mine did.
For the sake of the Monk build, you mean? Or a Swashbuckler... though I wouldn't deal much damage (especially against undead, which have not exactly been rare so far), and in general fail to fulfill the "party brawn" role.

A Duskblade would make an awesome prerequisite for Kensai, but I'd feel dirty touching that class. ;)

Were-Sandwich
2007-02-07, 11:53 AM
Why, its one of the better balanced ones.

Catharsis
2007-02-08, 09:55 AM
Why, its one of the better balanced ones.
Well, my DM doesn't seem to think that meleeists need all the help they can get. ;) But since I'd only be taking it for 3-4 levels, I guess there wouldn't be much of an issue. Especially since I'm going for a weapon as humble as the quarterstaff!

Too bad a passive +5 defending quarterstaff-end doesn't seem to work. Well, I guess it's still rather cool to have the option of charging in with the offensive end, flurrying defensively with both ends, or even using the +5 end to hit a AC-monster. And I could even channel spells for an extra bit of "ouch". :)

I have to try this build out sometime.

Hario
2007-02-08, 10:46 AM
Just remember you can enchant one end the full +10 bonus and pay to have the other end enchanted too, so you can technically have a +10/+10 weapon, which might be a better choice money wise and makes your weapon more badass.

Catharsis
2007-02-08, 11:35 AM
Actually, I can imbue both ends with the Kensai ability. In this campaign, XP is more readily gained than money. ;)

I just have a feeling that my DM won't like the Duskblade. He already thinks that melee characters are OK the way they are (and he hopefully DMs in a way that validates this assumption), so he'll be very suspicious of a full-BAB, two-save, medium-armored, spell-channeling class.

I guess I'd have to go either Fallen Paladin 1/Ftr 4/Kensai (horrible Will save) or something like Clr 4/Ftr 2/Kensai, although I'd have to invest at least 12 into Wis for those Cleric levels to make sense, and that would hurt. Maybe Clr 2/Ftr 4 with Wis 11 would be better, sacrificing 1 BAB and 2 hitpoints for two Domain abilities, a +3 to Will saves and first level spells. Also, Kensai would start one level later. Argh!