profanity in music

[Dib]

so... whats people's view on swearing in music? Is it just one big no? Do you really not care? Or do you only allow some words? This thought didn't really occur to me until last night when I was writing some new lyrics for my band and I ended up using a certain word beginning in C... so, what's everyone's view on this sort of thing? :smallsmile:

[B-Man]

I generally don't mind swearing in songs, as long as there isn't too much in it. If it's a song that constantly goes [bleep] [bleep] [bleep]... (repeat for duration of song), I'll trash the album. I don't mind hearing the word once in a song, or once per verse.

[DarkLightDragon]

To me, songs with swearing is a big no-no.

[Khantalas]

Other than the fact that I listen to First of May quite religiously (the song is just funny), I avoid swearing. Not only in music, but in most media.

...damn you HBO...

[Maryring]

I avoid swearing. I don't swear myself, and have only heard it where other words could fulfill the underlining part much better.

[Sisqui]

If the swearing is necessary to convey some extra emotive meaning in the song, it's OK I guess. But gratuitous swearing - where the song is just one long experiment in randomly stringing expletives together- really bothers me. Just my two coppers :smallbiggrin:

[Jack Squat]

It depends on the swearing and frequency. I take each song into consideration. For example, I can't stand it in most rap, but I find Nazareth's Hair of the Dog to be a very good song (and in fact am listening to it now).

[Trog]

I don't mind it for music that I listen to. I swear more than I should I suppose. But I am really concious of my words when around my kids. So I mind it when I want to listen to music with my kids around, I guess.

[Kyrian]

It depends on the swearing and frequency. I take each song into consideration. For example, I can't stand it in most rap, but I find Nazareth's Hair of the Dog to be a very good song (and in fact am listening to it now).

When I was younger, before I knew how to look lyrics up online...I always thought I was messing with a son of a preacher....*sigh*

[Varg]

I find the censoring of a song - you know, when you hear something on the radio with big gaps in the vocal track where a word that might have offended someone who's almost certainly not listening anyway has been cut out - more offensive than just about anything that might be in the song. Think about it - is someone who's offended by hearing the very popular word that rhymes with 'duck' likely to want to hear the kind of music in which that word may be regularly employed in the first place? We're all adults; the only form of censorship that really works in a free society is the 'off' switch. You don't like it, don't listen; don't try to emasculate it for everyone else.

I refuse to buy anything that's been censored; I used to be a radio DJ when I lived in Wales, and I always sent 'radio edits' of songs back to the record labels with a little note explaining why I wouldn't play it. Eventually they got the message and just sent me the real versions of things :D.

[potatocubed]

I find the censoring of a song - you know, when you hear something on the radio with big gaps in the vocal track where a word that might have offended someone who's almost certainly not listening anyway has been cut out - more offensive than just about anything that might be in the song.

You know what I love about that? Radio edits of gangsta rap. It's just the drums, the bass, and an occasional word. Lots of suspicious silence. Hearing that makes me fall about laughing.

More on topic, I believe that every word in the English language has a purpose, even the profanities. When you drop a piano on your foot, 'ouch' just doesn't cut it. I would also like to paraphrase Rebecca Borgstrom on a similar issue: it is always good to add new words to your vocabulary, since then you can more accurately express a wider and more subtle range of feeling. The problems begin when you start forgetting the words you knew before, or when you can no longer tell when to use a profanity and when to use something else.

[Sisqui]

I find the censoring of a song - you know, when you hear something on the radio with big gaps in the vocal track where a word that might have offended someone who's almost certainly not listening anyway has been cut out - more offensive than just about anything that might be in the song. Think about it - is someone who's offended by hearing the very popular word that rhymes with 'duck' likely to want to hear the kind of music in which that word may be regularly employed in the first place? We're all adults; the only form of censorship that really works in a free society is the 'off' switch. You don't like it, don't listen; don't try to emasculate it for everyone else.

Unfortunately, here in the US we live under the tyranny of the FCC- the Federal Censorship Commission........:smallfurious: Tell me where they find the justification for that bureaucratic nightmare in the Constitution. (Oh, please, please don't get me started on this............:smallwink: )

[Before someone says it's the Federal Communications Commission, I know that, I was being sarcastic]

[Penguinizer]

Too much profanity is bad, a little is ok.

[Dragonrider]

Depends on the word, and to what extent it's used. I personally don't swear at all, but (now I'm trying to think) yes, some of my favorite songs use "d***" and "h***". They are an exception to a rule, however, and in general I dislike profanity in musc.

[FdL]

Art is expression, and so you can say whatever you feel like. I know that in some countries like USA, for cultural reasons it's a very heavy thing to swear and use dirty language. But I think censorship and narrowness of mind is wrong.
"Gosh darn it" :rolleyes:

[Totally Guy]

Is the FCC a new thing? I remember a few years back people the people I used to IR chat with were outright shocked when I explained what our BBFC does, they put age restrictions on films and occasionally games.

[Ego Slayer]

Eh? We've got age limits when it comes to the actual purchase of the stuff.
Games are rated by ESRB, and CARA for movies.

Yeah, looked up BBFC. Basically the same thing.

Wow, you've got a few more rating than we do. I think we've got five for movies, and six on games.

[Silkenfist]

I don't mind profanity in the media at all...however, I can't think of ANY song with swearing in it, that I listen to.

...

OK, one exception for Americana

...

And for some South Park stuff

...

and a lot of my metal collection, if you consider hell to be swearing (please don't)

...

and maybe some more. But you get my point. The kind of music, to which this usually applies, is not my deal anyway. I am against censorship but I barely notice it in the media.

[Flabbicus]

and a lot of my metal collection, if you consider hell to be swearing (please don't)


I never understood why people considered hell to be a swearword. "Damn" I can sort of understand, but hell?


In any case, I couldn't care less if there are swear words in songs I like.

[Sisqui]

Is the FCC a new thing? I remember a few years back people the people I used to IR chat with were outright shocked when I explained what our BBFC does, they put age restrictions on films and occasionally games.

No, the FCC regulates broadcast media (meaning it is distributed publicly on TV or radio). ESRB gives ratings on the content of material (which is usually a product bought by an individual for private use) but they don't have power to make/enforce laws and levy fines for infractions. The ESRB might give a rating to a CD that means it is really explicit but they couldn't fine the retailer for carrying it. The FCC might determine something is lewd (see the whole Janet Jackson wardrobe malfunction episode) and fine whoever broadcast it on TV or radio.

[The Orange Zergling]

To be honest, I dont really care. Most of the songs I listen to have no profanities, but the ones that do are just the occasional "damn" or "hell".

The exception to this is Come Whatever May..... although I think the profanities in that song strengthen the point.

[Midnight Son]

I never understood why people considered hell to be a swearword. "Damn" I can sort of understand, but hell?


In any case, I couldn't care less if there are swear words in songs I like.
A swear word is really any word used in place of another where the word actually used is not used for its proper meaning. Therefore, "Go to hell" is not swearing; "Hell, I hate this school," is. When describing the physical act of love, using the F-word, while impolite, is not swearing. If one wants to get really technical, saying, "Screw you!" is swearing, though most would not think so.

As for the use of expletives in media, I'm not offended unless it is used in a highly gratuitous manner. Many swear words are power words, meant to get attention. When over used, they lose that power. Think of the person you know who uses them every other word. Does anyone pay attention anymore? The only time I ever heard my mom swear, the entire room stopped for about 10 seconds as everyone went into a mild state of shock.

[Don Beegles]

I more or less agree with just abour everyone else who's expressed an opinion; a little is fine, especially if it fits, but if it's gratuitous I don't like it. ACtually, it doesn't just have to be gratuitous, if it's common in a song, even if it works, I probably don't like what the song has to say and I wouldn't listen to it. Some songs however, really need it, or at least it fits. For instance, "I want your Girlfriend to be my girlfriend" says eff three or four times, but it's not overpowering, and it has a purpose.

[Ego Slayer]

To be honest, I dont really care. Most of the songs I listen to have no profanities, but the ones that do are just the occasional "damn" or "hell".

The exception to this is Come Whatever May..... although I think the profanities in that song strengthen the point.
Yeah, there isn't really much profanity in what I listen to either, and I don't really care.

Good song.

[SDF]

Boo censorship, in the same vein boo small vocabularies. As long as it isn't used as an excuse for poor song writing I don't mind.

[Flabbicus]

A swear word is really any word used in place of another where the word actually used is not used for its proper meaning. Therefore, "Go to hell" is not swearing; "Hell, I hate this school," is. When describing the physical act of love, using the F-word, while impolite, is not swearing. If one wants to get really technical, saying, "Screw you!" is swearing, though most would not think so.

As for the use of expletives in media, I'm not offended unless it is used in a highly gratuitous manner. Many swear words are power words, meant to get attention. When over used, they lose that power. Think of the person you know who uses them every other word. Does anyone pay attention anymore? The only time I ever heard my mom swear, the entire room stopped for about 10 seconds as everyone went into a mild state of shock.

Thanks Midnight Son! The more you know I guess.

[Wolf53226]

It depends on the use really, if it sounds like the writer and the song are very emotional, I give more slack because those words tend to be closely tied to emotions. If it is just non-stop swearing, that's not emotion, that's being a childish, IMHO.

So really your going to have to be the judge, is that the best word you can think of to describe the person/emotion? If so, and it doesn't sound like you are swearing too often, then your fine.

[Lilly]

According to the radio station nuts is a swear word as it is censored out of one song.

off you go to media!

[Renegade Paladin]

They're words. You're not going to up and die from hearing them. Is it tasteless? Perhaps; that depends entirely on the perception of the listener. It's not my thing particularly, but if words that society has randomly labeled taboo for no particular reason are the best way to describe something, then by all means, use them.

[Ted_Stryker]

I'm not really sure what the big effin' deal is, myself.

[Sisqui]

Actually, most "swear" words are simply words that are considered impolite.

*mounts podium to give history lesson*

In 1066 the Normans invaded England and brought Norman french with them. As the conquerors became the upper class, the indigenous populace became second class citizens. The language of the new nobles became polite and the language of the natives (Anglo-Saxon) became a language regarded as crude and vulgar (vulgar originally meant "common" BTW). This is why the word s*** is considered swearing and excrement is considered polite even though they both mean the same thing.

*steps down*

Wow, I knew I took ENG 401- History of the English language for something......:smallwink:

[Scorpina]

I couldn't care less. They're just words. If anything I mind the few swear words that bother me at all less in music than in conversation.

[Artanis]

I always found it hilarious when a network would bleep out "god damn", but instead of bleeping out "damn", they'd bleep out "god". So it'd end up "(bleep) dammit!" or some such.

Back on topic, profanity in music doesn't bother me in and of itself. However, I've heard very, VERY few songs that "just so happen" to have profanity in them. They're always either pretty clean, or else some guy getting off on the notion of stringing together four minutes of continuous swearing...in which case the immaturity of the so-called "artist" strikes me as moronic while his so-called "lyrics" don't bother me one bit.

[clarkvalentine]

Doesn't bother me any, but I'm glad there's music out there I can play for my kids (ages 4 and 6) without worrying that they'll introduce their classmates to certain words the following day.

All things in moderation.

[The Prince of Cats]

It depends on context for me. I mean, I find most rap puerile anyway; there is a whole load of posturing to cover up a lack of talent, so swearing comes into their music a lot.

Limp Bizkit's 'Break Stuff' is an example of bad swearing for me, using it for effect. Radiohead's 'Creep' is an example of correct use, to emphasise. (in the radio-edit, the person being addressed is "so very special" to avoid awkward silence)

I personally don't swear. When I was singing Creep with the band, my wife (who I had been with for about four years) was shocked. She had never heard me use the 'f' word before, even when driving.

[Sewer_Bandito]

So long as the swear word fits the context of the song, I don't really care. If the person singing the song is reely reeely angry about whatever it is they're singing about, I'm fine with it.

However, if it's like a certain blink-182 song where the lyrics are "**** **** **** **** **** sucker mother ****** **** **** **** and ****" Then it does bug me, because they're swearing for no particular reason.

[Amotis]

Censorship is music = no no.

You have to keep the good with the bad. Which includes mainstream rap which uses it for "shock value" and Jeff Mangum singing "seman." (Who does it beautifully.)

[CrazedGoblin]

i don't mind if a song has swearing but if its bleeped it becomes a rubbish song, can anyone imgaine "London Underground" thats been censored!

[Don Julio Anejo]

Even though I don't have a lot of songs with swearing (London Bridge probably has the most), I have nothing against it. I just don't listen to gangsta rap.

I also have this theory that everyone swears when they're angry (like when they just missed the nail with a hammer and hit their finger). Except if one guy will say f**k, someone else will say oh didly! Both guys mean exactly the same thing, except the first guy is being honest about it, and the second guy is trying to be more polite.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

If it's right for the song, it's right. BUT - it's not big and clever to use profanity.

When NWA did Straight Outa Compton, it would have been silly to use "flipping" instead of "f***ing", of "afro-american" instead of "n*****" - it's a rap about life on the streets of a bad neighbourhood, and that's the language you've got to expect.

But when Trent Reznor adds in an extra "f*** you" is a snide, whining sort of way in a live performance of song that already has "f***er" in the title, personally, I just find it sounds a bit sad and "middle class teen angst", and from a rich, successful guy in his mid thirties, that's a bad thing.

Personally, I don't think swearing in rap or punk is always about shock value. In rap and punk it's very often an honest reflection of the language used by the rapper in normal conversation. Of course, commercialised versions of true hip hop and punk are pumped out by record companies, and they want to include all that bad language that so outrages parents of the fans. But profanity in music has been going on since the troubadors of the Middle Ages. We shouldn't get upset by a few well-chosen "dirty" words.

In the NIN track "Hurt", Mr Reznor sings about wearing a "crown of s**t". When this was covered by Johnny Cash, he sang about wearing a "crown of thorns". Toning down the language in this case gave us a more poetic, more poignant lyric. There's far more symbolism, literary connection and cultural reference in a "crown of thorns" than the image of some guy with poop on his head.

I guess it's all about the context, the background, the subject - like all art. And it's a matter of taste.

[Scorpina]

...if one guy will say f**k, someone else will say oh didly! Both guys mean exactly the same thing, except the first guy is being honest about it, and the second guy is trying to be more polite.

"Fiddle-de-dee, that will require a tetanus shot..."

[Shadow of the Sun]

I see swear words as they are- emotional intensifiers. You get emotional, you swear without any real thought to the meaning of it. I cannot see why it is considered profane- it is just expressing emotions.

[Thiel]

I don't mind swearing, but y´then again I don't listen to gangsta rap. Seriously that kind of music makes death metal sound sanitized.

[FdL]

They're words. You're not going to up and die from hearing them. Is it tasteless? Perhaps; that depends entirely on the perception of the listener. It's not my thing particularly, but if words that society has randomly labeled taboo for no particular reason are the best way to describe something, then by all means, use them.

You're so f***ing right :)



In the NIN track "Hurt", Mr Reznor sings about wearing a "crown of s**t". When this was covered by Johnny Cash, he sang about wearing a "crown of thorns". Toning down the language in this case gave us a more poetic, more poignant lyric. There's far more symbolism, literary connection and cultural reference in a "crown of thorns" than the image of some guy with poop on his head.

I disagree. That's not necessarily better or more artistic. They are saying totally different things, with totally different connotations. The line gets changed a lot with "thorn", because it brings a lot of religious connotations, of sacrifice and suffering, that are not present in the original. And just because he uses a word that's more polite doesn't make it better. I think if you're covering NiN or any other artist who's not afraid of calling things by their name you should not alter its work in that way.



Even though I don't have a lot of songs with swearing (London Bridge probably has the most), I have nothing against it. I just don't listen to gangsta rap.

Yeah, well, that song is a perfect example of a puerile and unnecesary use of swear words, she's trying to sound hip or tough or something when she's clearly not. S**t, at least the rappers are more authentic.

The example of "Creep" was spot on. It's appalling how censorship seems to make people think they are above people, distorting an artists' work in the name of protecting supposedly oversensitive or prudish audiences...It's like Orwellian IMHO, and a symptom of an immature society.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

I disagree. That's not necessarily better or more artistic. They are saying totally different things, with totally different connotations. The line gets changed a lot with "thorn", because it brings a lot of religious connotations, of sacrifice and suffering, that are not present in the original. And just because he uses a word that's more polite doesn't make it better. I think if you're covering NiN or any other artist who's not afraid of calling things by their name you should not alter its work in that way.


I didn't say it was better, I just said it was more poetic and culturally significant.
Reznor clearly wanted to make a repulsive image, a degrading, humiliating image with his poop-on-head lyric. It's a masochistic thing, full of scatological BDSM psychology. Cash's change was to the religious, full of martyr-complex - but ultimately, it was more literary, in that it drew on literature. Both are valid, and both are saying very similar things - suffering in one way or another.

When an artist covers an earlier artist's work, I would hope that they make some effort to stamp their creative identity on the piece - otherwise, there is no skill or creation involved beyond the technical ability to reproduce the original.

Of course, it's just a matter of taste as to which one prefers.

As far as profanity in music goes, I don't think we can judge all examples of profanity at one go - just as it's wrong to condemn or praise all examples of a music or other artistic genre in one go. To say that all fantasy novels are poor literature, because there are many examples of poor fantasy writing, is too sweeping a judgement, and so also it is wrong to say that it is all good, on the grounds that there are many well-written fantasy books.

We shouldn't say that all profanity in art is good or bad, we should judge each example as it comes. Otherwise, we're being prejudiced.

[ray53208]

personally, i find censorship offensive. if you dont want to watch, hear, or read something THEN DONT. turn the channel or pick up another book. i have long been of the opinion that no image, phrase, song, idea, or story can change who you are or have any power over you unless you let it. and only the weakest of people get their undies in a twist over what someone else wants to read, see, or listen to.

words are not good or bad. they just are. honestly, im more offended by the stupidity of a given show or song than any kind of language or nudity in it.

as for me, i swear, cuss, and use bad gramar as i see fit. sometimes i dont. no big deal. i know who and what i am. i dont really care what strangers think of me. if a friend or loved one asks me to refrain then out of love and respect for them i will. usually. if they arent being a big baby about it.

as far as children are concerned i think its time parents take responsability in what their children watch. dont pester the tv or radio stations, just turn the channel and be done with it. obviously, the programming choice wasnt for your child and problem solved.

meh, i used to debate this round and round when i was in art school. some folks arent happy unless they are choosing what you can listen too, read, or see.

"Beware he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master" ~Sid Meir

[Shadow of the Sun]

A song that I really love is **** Yourself by Zappa and Vai. Zappa was one of the most intelligent men I have ever heard, and I loved his stuff.

[Were-Sandwich]

I'm not really bothered about swearing in songs. Its the types of music that generally has it in that I don't like. Except Tenacious D. They rock.

[Spartan_Samuel]

I have no problems with cursing in music. Used correctly, they even add passion to it.

[Telonius]

Every song should try to use words that express something most clearly. Sometimes "naughty words" are the best words. "Jeremy" by Pearl Jam and "You Oughtta Know" by Alanis Morrisette both use the F-word, but I'd say that in each of those cases, it's the best possible word to use.

Same way with nudity, violence, or all of the other things in art, music, and literature that get people all riled up. Use whatever you need to use to get your point across effectively, and it's good. Throw things in gratuitously, and it's bad.

[Logic]

I find the censoring of a song - you know, when you hear something on the radio with big gaps in the vocal track where a word that might have offended someone who's almost certainly not listening anyway has been cut out - more offensive than just about anything that might be in the song. Think about it - is someone who's offended by hearing the very popular word that rhymes with 'duck' likely to want to hear the kind of music in which that word may be regularly employed in the first place? We're all adults; the only form of censorship that really works in a free society is the 'off' switch. You don't like it, don't listen; don't try to emasculate it for everyone else.

I refuse to buy anything that's been censored.
I second that.
Though I agree that in some instances, I do not want to hear profanity in music (normally, it is only when I am around my nieces) I refuse to tolerate censored media in country that contains a "freedom of speech and expression" clause in their nation-defining document.

[AtomicKitKat]

Once per minute is how I feel about it. For an example, look at Alanis Morissette's You Oughta Know. One F word in the whole damn thing, and it was used in the "normal" context rather than to emphasize how "hardcore" she was.

[Piedmon_Sama]

When NWA did Straight Outa Compton, it would have been silly to use "flipping" instead of "f***ing", of "afro-american" instead of "n*****" - it's a rap about life on the streets of a bad neighbourhood, and that's the language you've got to expect.

But when Trent Reznor adds in an extra "f*** you" is a snide, whining sort of way in a live performance of song that already has "f***er" in the title, personally, I just find it sounds a bit sad and "middle class teen angst", and from a rich, successful guy in his mid thirties, that's a bad thing.

Couldn't have said it better myself! Swearing can be a very effective underscore, and vulgarity has its place in art as much as anything else. Unfortunately it can be (and often is) misused to the point where the words lose any real meaning.

[Sereno]

as far as children are concerned i think its time parents take responsability in what their children watch. dont pester the tv or radio stations, just turn the channel and be done with it. obviously, the programming choice wasnt for your child and problem solved.

But, this is kind of the point, isn't it. I know what themes and issues and language are likely to be on programs BECAUSE of the standard.

I wouldn't let my son watch the Sopranos ... it's a great show, my wife and I both love it, but there's way too much violence, sex, and cursing for young children. The fact that I know when it's on, and what channel it's on, gives me, the parent, the *ability* to take responsibility.

If there was NO control, what-so-ever, then you'd never know what was safe for your kids. If an episode of the Simpson's could suddenly break out into a wildly explicit live-action group-sex-orgy scene, how would you be able to decide what your kids can watch? You'd never be able to watch TV with your kids, because you'd have to pre-screen everything to make sure that something totally unexpected isn't around the next corner or commercial break.

[talsine]

But, this is kind of the point, isn't it. I know what themes and issues and language are likely to be on programs BECAUSE of the standard.

I wouldn't let my son watch the Sopranos ... it's a great show, my wife and I both love it, but there's way too much violence, sex, and cursing for young children. The fact that I know when it's on, and what channel it's on, gives me, the parent, the *ability* to take responsibility.

If there was NO control, what-so-ever, then you'd never know what was safe for your kids. If an episode of the Simpson's could suddenly break out into a wildly explicit live-action group-sex-orgy scene, how would you be able to decide what your kids can watch? You'd never be able to watch TV with your kids, because you'd have to pre-screen everything to make sure that something totally unexpected isn't around the next corner or commercial break.


While i agree with you that there are certain things children shouldn't watch, most parents, at least in my experiance, don't bother to pay enough attention, assuming that the governement will take care of it for them. Those are the parents he's speaking to and not ones like yourself. OR so i would think. I can't count the number of times i've seen young children in films they wouldn't understand and shouldn't be watching just because its kool. In fact, it seems like as more and more time passes, kids gage what they want to watch based on the rating it recieved.

"Gee golly Billy, this movie has is rated R, we totaly have to see that"

drives me crazy.

as for what i think, they can cuss all they want, i don't bother to censer myself and why should they? its each induviduals responcibility to determine what they will and won't do, think, say, etc and no one should have the right to change that.

[The Orange Zergling]

I think censorship in general is bull****.

Just my two cents.

You really have to look at the kid in question and decide if they can handle it. I hate it immensely when people say things like "No T games because you're not 13." or "No PG13 movies because you're not 13." simply because it's easy and convenient. I'm one of the two kids I know who wasnt banned in some silly manner like that.

[Don Beegles]

Of course, Zergling, you're one of the few kids I know who is apparently mature enough (from what I've seen of you) to disregard the silly T/Pg-13 restrictions, so that could be why. :smallsmile:

[The Orange Zergling]

Unfortunately, it seems not enough children are mature enough in today's society to disregard those quasi-restrictions... or their parents are too lazy, either one.

And I just realized what I said contradicted itself...

[Amotis]

Yeah, childen = immature. It's kinda the nature of the word. But like you said, it falls on the parents.

[FdL]

I didn't say it was better, I just said it was more poetic and culturally significant.
Reznor clearly wanted to make a repulsive image, a degrading, humiliating image with his poop-on-head lyric. It's a masochistic thing, full of scatological BDSM psychology. Cash's change was to the religious, full of martyr-complex - but ultimately, it was more literary, in that it drew on literature. Both are valid, and both are saying very similar things - suffering in one way or another.

When an artist covers an earlier artist's work, I would hope that they make some effort to stamp their creative identity on the piece - otherwise, there is no skill or creation involved beyond the technical ability to reproduce the original.

Of course, it's just a matter of taste as to which one prefers.



Sure. Anyway, I can tell you prefer the cover over the original. Though the author's intended imagery is clearly what you describe as "BDSM", "masochistic", "scatological", etc., well, that's NIN. Pretty it ain't. I take mine undiluted, thank you (with all due respect to the man in black, who has probably made more valuable contributions to Music As We Know It than Reznor).




If there was NO control, what-so-ever, then you'd never know what was safe for your kids. If an episode of the Simpson's could suddenly break out into a wildly explicit live-action group-sex-orgy scene, how would you be able to decide what your kids can watch? You'd never be able to watch TV with your kids, because you'd have to pre-screen everything to make sure that something totally unexpected isn't around the next corner or commercial break.

Well, that's one problem with censorship and ratings, because for example there's people who won't let their children watch The Simpsons at all, you know? Ratings are preferrable, but they ARE a form of censorship because they restrict the audience, affect distribution, etc.

Personally I don't like it when some "authority" tells me what they decide is better or worse for me.

[Dr. Weasel]

Generally swearing seems to be the crutch of poor songwriters more than a problem of its own.

I have no problem at all with the words, but if a song centers around six or so nearly meaningless phrases just for the sake of swearing, I can't stand it.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I really hate people who think they're better than me because they consider themselves more moral and don't stoop down to using bad language to express their emotions and turn away when there's sex or references to sex on TV. In their eyes people who don't share the same morals as them are inferior. And they try to rescue everyone else from drowning in immoral, inappropriate, antisocial behavior such as swearing, watching TV or using the computer (because internet has porn in it!!) by issuing bans (or at least ratings) on stuff and campaigning to ban everything they deem inappropriate.

It's like religious "you'll burn in hell sinner" but without the religion. Just because they consider something appropriate and wholesome doesn't mean they have any right to force other people into living by their values.

There, I've said it.

[Sereno]

It's like religious "you'll burn in hell sinner" but without the religion. Just because they consider something appropriate and wholesome doesn't mean they have any right to force other people into living by their values.

There, I've said it.

But, you have the right to force your swearing, porn and violence on everyone who DOESN'T want it, right?

Not being able to say and do *anything* you want at *any* time and in *any* place is NOT censorship.

True censorship -- what we should all be very wary of -- occurs when you can find NO venue for your ideas or actions, or are criminally prosecuted BY THE GOVERNMENT for them.

[Orzel]

Growing up in Brooklyn, I don't mind swearing. Sometimes I prefer swearing. Some genre lose their meaning without it. Gangstas swear. Many swear a lot. So artist who claim to be gangstas should swear in gangsta and party rap. Same with dancehall reggae artists and some other type of songs. But in most genre, it doesn't make sense.

[Tormsskull]

Swearing in music doesn't bother me when it has a purpose. I might feel uncomfortable listening to it around someone I know doesn't enjoy it, but some of my favorite songs are by Disturbed, Puddle of Mud, and the like. When I'm having an incredibly boring day, or am really psyched that I'm free from obligations for a few days (read: weekend) then I love blasting the radio as loud as it goes and screaming along with the song at the top of my lungs.

Plus, my cousins/friends and I when driving around always try to make each other laugh by substituting our own lyrics in the same rhythem as the song that's playing, and often time those words are profanities because they make the song outrageous and outrageous = funny.

[Bears With Lasers]

Man, what's the big deal? Why does the f-word bother people so much? It's not like it has a history of being used in oppressive ways and is associated with terrible things (like, say, n***er).

It's a word. It means something, generally an intensifier. And the more people freak out about it, the more power it has, so if you really don't like it? Start peppering everyday conversation with it. It'll go from "zomg!" to "whatever" in no time flat.

[Scorpina]

Interesting thing I've just had a discussion about. Certain words which are not typically labelled as 'profanity', such as 'moist' for example, are more offensive than the f-word to a lot of people...

[Reinforcements]

Other than the fact that I listen to First of May quite religiously (the song is just funny), I avoid swearing. Not only in music, but in most media.

...damn you HBO...
Woo! Go Jonathan Coulton!

Anyway, I generally don't mind swearing, in music or otherwise. If the word fits, use it I say. Fun trivia, though - what popular song includes the F-word but is almost never bleeped out?

[Sisqui]

But, you have the right to force your swearing, porn and violence on everyone who DOESN'T want it, right?

Not being able to say and do *anything* you want at *any* time and in *any* place is NOT censorship.

True censorship -- what we should all be very wary of -- occurs when you can find NO venue for your ideas or actions, or are criminally prosecuted BY THE GOVERNMENT for them.

True. Rating agencies are there to provide information on the content of a product. In many ways it is similar to posting the ingredients on food labels. You know what is in it and can choose what you (or your children) buy.

[smellie_hippie]

meh :smallannoyed: I could go either way with swearing. I watch what I listen to around the kids, but that's just part of being a good parent *pats self on back*.

I enjoy Nine Inch Nails... and Trent Reznor is a very angry man. He drops quite a few f-bombs. But if I'm in an angry mood, I want to listen to angry music. If my kids are in the car, I don't listen to angry music.

Swearing is all about the context and the company. If it would embarrass you to say it, it shouldn't be said. If you're not sure, it shouldn't be said.

[ray53208]

i think ill go listen to the mormon tabernacle choir sing the seven words you cant say on tv. thats what id like to hear. it would be my favorite holiday song.

and this whole "websters defines censorship as" line... im sick of it. maybe its time for webster to expand his effin' definition.

whos forcing porn or violence on anyone? well, the government does its share of forcing violence, but rarely porn unfortunately. if someone is going to burst into tears if i talk about no-no parts or if i say words that make baby jebus blush, then maybe its time for them to move to the mountains and become a hermit. because if thats the case then i have got to have some kind of magical powers that can change who they are or what they believe with just my words.

unlikely. its more likely that there are simply weak-minded folk who are especially vulnerable to the every day jedi mind tricks performed with anyone who has a solid grasp of english. i mean how else can you explain the popularity of reality tv? they were told it was must see tv and they believed it.

i just couldnt go through life with blinders on. especially blinders placed there by someone else. id rather die. thats why it upsets me to hear people champion censorship of any kind for any reason. people should be free to speak their minds or express thier feelings and equally free to be ignored.

[The Prince of Cats]

Ray, there is a big difference between propriety and censorship. It is the same as the difference between flashing your man-parts at a five year-old girl and showing those same man-parts to a consenting adult who you picked up in a bar. (the first is a crime, the second is frowned upon but legal)

Try to remember that the right to swear directly opposes another person's right not to hear these words. A sticker on a CD that says 'Parental Advisory' is surely not censorship, nor is keeping bad language off TV until after 9pm.

If you understood the quote in your signature, you would not even be having this conversation...

[Bears With Lasers]

That's not true, Prince. The sticker isn't censorship. Keeping bad language off TV is censorship. It may be censorship that one does or doesn't approve of, it may be a Good Thing, but it's definitely censorship.

[The Prince of Cats]

Keeping bad language off TV is censorship. It may be censorship that one does or doesn't approve of, it may be a Good Thing, but it's definitely censorship.

Okay, can we agree that it is censorship but not Censorship? I mean, telling Howard Stern not to say F*** at lunchtime is not quite on the same level as Galileo Galilei's arrest, for instance...

[Bears With Lasers]

In some ways, sure; in others, no. I think that calling some things--generally, the ones you don't approve of--capital-C Censorship is basically just a way to avoid saying that there is good censorship and bad censorship. Yes, certainly, there are degrees of censorship, just like there are degrees of other things, both good (like generosity) and bad (like bigotry).
However, both of those things are "censorship" or "Censorship", regardless of how you want to look at it. You are preventing people from saying what they want, and generally because you thing it's bad/wrong/harmful. This doesn't make those two things equal ethically or in degree, mind you, but "you could be much MORE censored" isn't exactly a shining argument for censorship.

[orcmonk89]

Personally, I have no issues with swearing, I hear it enough in the sixth form common room with a multi-player Goldeneye game playing (four teenagers who are extremely competative on a shoot-em-up is not a good way to avoid porfanities).
I think it totally depends on your cultural background. The censorships in other countries compaired with the UK is extreme... :S

[ray53208]

listen, all i really want to know is where i can go to have porn forced upon me! anyone? anyone? darn these obscure government programs! im going to go have to talk to matthew lesko arent i?

flashing no-no jinglies at kids is bad.

one culture's propriety is another's priggishness. example: in some cultures its tradition and okey dokey to purchase brides with cattle. in our culture the buying and selling of people is wrong.

is that even a valid argument? one persons sense of propriety is anothers offense. personally, im offended by lies and willful ignorance, but thats me. governments seem to run on lies and willful ignorance. but thats my take on it. yours might differ.

meh. i think ive wandered a bit off topic... so... baba buey baba buey howard stern's -click-

[Sisqui]

Okay, can we agree that it is censorship but not Censorship? I mean, telling Howard Stern not to say F*** at lunchtime is not quite on the same level as Galileo Galilei's arrest, for instance...

Maybe this argument will work better for you:

Broadcast TV is "free" because commercials pay the broadcasters for the airtime that you watch. These advertisers want people to buy their product (since that is where they get the money to pay for the ads to begin with), which is less likely if the viewer has a negative association with the ad. This means -because broadcast TV is marketed to a high volume of people- that the shows have to be rather bland and low-key in the personal offensiveness department in order to appeal to everyone- that is not censorship, that is good business marketing. A lot of these advertisers lobby to keep standards in broadcast TV so that their products are not seen as tainted by the programs' contents. Anyone familiar with the Janet Jackson "malfunction" can understand a company not wanting their consumer base to think they were responsible for that.
Now, if you want a little racier TV (or kiddie TV, educational TV, or whatever), you go get cable. Now cable advertisers know they have a much smaller audience with more homogeneous tastes per channel. Unfortunately, they also have more infrastructure costs that are not subsidized by the government. This means more cost per viewer, but those viewers will pay it because their desires are not being satisfied by broadcast TV. These viewers are also much less likely to be offended by whatever type of commercial is being aired on that channel because only advertisers who think their product sales will not suffer from guilt by association will buy time on that network. Voila- more "offensive" content, less "censorship".
So- my point is- you get what you pay (or don't pay) for. If you want something spicier than vanilla, you are either going to have to pay for it or convince the companies who pay for airtime for their commercials that you won't boycott their product. And really, it's their money, they should get to decide what image gets attached to it.

[ray53208]

but my cable programming is still being censored. i pay good money just so i can watch movies with hoo hoos, gun fights, and naughty words. at this point why even bother calling basic cable anything but regular commercial tv?

if the people want a rating system, fine. but that rating system should be completely transparent. anyone seen "this movie has not been rated"?

[The Prince of Cats]

Well, I am not sure how that contradicts what I said. My only point is that the censorship that philosophers speak out against is the suppression and censorship of ideas, while many of the people here seem to equate that (rather inexplicably, in my mind) to censorship of language.

What is worse is that, by comparing the fact that you can't say c*** on TV to McCarthyism, you downplay the real damage being done by governments like China's.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

Don't get me wrong: I like NiN and Marylin Manson and Skinny Puppy - and plenty of other deliberately nasty artists. I know what they're about. I don't prefer Cash's version to NiN's version of Hurt, I like them both for different reasons - Cash has made a different song out it, by some tiny, well-chosen adjustments.

Sometimes though, artists seem to get caught up in their own myth, and the intensity of what they're doing is diluted by their eagerness to live up to expectations. Tends to happen most in live performance, when hordes of sycophantic fans are egging them on... That's when we get to see the true colours of a performer, I think.

Sometimes, self-censorship can enhance the art. The radio-edit version of Radiohead's Creep (substituting "very" for "f***ing") works almost like a hypertext - the vitriol and poignancy in "very" when Thom York sings the line is bolstered by the knowledge that originally the word he wrote was "f***ing". The restraint in language produces an additional emotional undercurrent that isn't present in the un-edited version.

[Don Julio Anejo]

But, you have the right to force your swearing, porn and violence on everyone who DOESN'T want it, right?

Not being able to say and do *anything* you want at *any* time and in *any* place is NOT censorship.

True censorship -- what we should all be very wary of -- occurs when you can find NO venue for your ideas or actions, or are criminally prosecuted BY THE GOVERNMENT for them.

Actually, not being able to say what I want at *any* time and in *any* place *is* censorship.

I'll agree with Ray here. (I would have said the same things myself, although I was busy the last few days and didn't have the time to check out the forum). For one thing, I want to know just where I can go to have porn forced on me...

Also, people don't campaign to just ban swearwords from TV. They also campaign to do things such as burn and ban from public libraries all the books that have words like "nig_ger" in them or have racy pictures. Books like Uncle Tom's Cabin or The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn for example. See my point? Things have to be appropriate in libraries. But because libraries are there for people to get books for reading, they can't anymore because those books are banned.

So now people with "morals" force their values on others. Suppose I want to read Mark Twain.. Where in the world do I get it if libraries don't carry them anymore? Don't tell me the bookstore, because you can always buy porn, even in countries where porn is often banned (like Arabic countries). And you could always buy alcohol during the prohibition.

And even then, the same people will probably start to campaign against bookstores carrying Mark Twain and other 19th century writers that wrote about black people. And they will succeed too once popular opinion gets in sync with theirs.

What I'm leading to is just because some people don't want certain things (porn, profanity, etc) "forced on them" (available to the general public), they try to make sure it's very hard to get and you have to go specifically looking for it.

No one forces you to watch TV just because it has references to sex in it. Don't watch it. But don't tell the TV station to change the show because you don't like it. Someone else might like it.

[Sisqui]

but my cable programming is still being censored. i pay good money just so i can watch movies with hoo hoos, gun fights, and naughty words. at this point why even bother calling basic cable anything but regular commercial tv?

if the people want a rating system, fine. but that rating system should be completely transparent. anyone seen "this movie has not been rated"?

I think there is a vast difference between censorship by the government and having privately financed programming that cannot garner a sufficiently large enough audience to pay for itself. And you can get all the hoo hoos you want if you buy the right cable tier. But again, the tiers that show pornography are a smaller market. You have to pay for them. And honestly, there are people who don't want to see ta tas and their channels-cable or broadcast-aren't going to have them. If you watch those channels to see them and don't, that isn't censorship, that's you watching the wrong channel. To say something is censored because it doesn't have what you want to see is silly. If that were the definition of censorship then every show would have to contain everything that every person watching it ever wanted to see, which is patently impossible.

[Nightmarenny]

Several songs that I think would suffer a big hit if it didn't swear.

Disturbed's-Down with the sickness. About a man going insane. Its alot of cursing but it really gives the fealing this guys insane. The part where he has flashbacks to his mom would be the same without cursing. Because it signals a transition between to flashback to his mother beating him to him growing up and hating her.

Fall Out Boys- This ain't Scene its an armsrace, the hook is changed to "This ain't a scene its a Goddamn armsrace because it potrays the singers frustration and makes the line sound better when sung(try just singing the title, it doesn't work well)

[Shadowdweller]

From Apocalypse Now:

We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "****" on an airplane because...it's obscene!

[Vaynor]

Other than the fact that I listen to First of May quite religiously (the song is just funny), I avoid swearing. Not only in music, but in most media.

Hehe, that song's awesome. Like that kind of song, made in jest, or where it's used to make a point, or isn't used repeatedly just "cause they can" is ok. Songs that use it for no reason do not appeal to me.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Like most things in life, swearing is one of the things I dislike but won't hold against anything if they have enough other reasons to be worth while.

[Adygias]

Swearing is fine. Frankly, the things you're conveying with swearing can be a lot worse, morally speaking, than a few words that are offensive in some contexts. The real problem is when people (I'm thinking musicians especially, but writers too) depend on swearing to get emotion our of their audiences. You end up depending on a little minor momentary shock to buoy your whole piece, and it's just going to feel weak; like blasphemy and taboo sex in modern art, you get some consternation that makes you feel like an artist for a second, but it fades quickly and leaves no lasting impression at all on your audience. They'll start using more and stronger obscenities to get the same reaction, they'll start to depend on it to get their art to work at all, and all the while their audience is getting jaded. You can tell these sort of artists because they curse habitually. You'll overhear them in the grocery store, going through their lists to themselves, and it'll sound like this: "Alright, I already ****ing got the ****ing g*****n eggs, not where the **** are the ****ing piece of **** canned ****ing tomatoes?" And you will know that indivisual must be a rapper.

[LCR]

I don't generally mind swearing in music, but I don't consider it good taste to write songs consisting of nothing but swearing. A lot of rap music's like that and -surprise, surprise- I don't like it.
I think it sounds primitive.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

...snip...You can tell these sort of artists because they curse habitually. You'll overhear them in the grocery store, going through their lists to themselves, and it'll sound like this: "Alright, I already ****ing got the ****ing g*****n eggs, not where the **** are the ****ing piece of **** canned ****ing tomatoes?" And you will know that indivisual must be a rapper.

Rap has "bad words" in it because that's how people talk .

Ihear that sort of language [I]all the time where I live, and no-one round here has the talent to string a single verse together. It takes more talent than a lot of people think to rap - seriously, just try it! You'll sound even stupider than you might think the paid stars do.

Time for some sweeping statements: RPG fans tend to be middle-class, well-educated, smart people. Well-educated, middle-class, smart people tend not to live in neighbourhoods where profanity is the normal punctuation of speech. It sounds uncouth and alien to such people, but to a great many real folk, saying "f***" is pretty much the same as saying "er..." - and, generally, we're not used to it.

If you can get over that, and listen to what a rapper is saying, then maybe you'll find (s)he's got issues that are worthy of notice. Even the "I've got more guns and money and women than you" style is a comment on materialism, whether the rapper wants it to be or not.

Can we steer clear of attacking entire genres en masse? It just seems so prejudiced. It's like condemning the whole of orchestral music because you don't like the baroque period.

[Lord Ruthven]

First of all, I'd like to point out I'm only using ***** out of respect for the rules of the forum. If I had my way they would not be required but the owner makes the rules.

I don't see any problem with 'profanity' in anything. I admit I do not have any children, but I am an adult who might so let's analyse 'profane' language:

d*** = something every man and boy has.
c*** = something every woman and girl has.
s*** = something everyone has to do, once a day at least.
f*** = something everyone's parents had to do for them to be concieved.

When you consider these words their actual corrupting influence is that people are so shy with regard to them. In reality they describe a universal human condition that, if our children were exposed to earlier on in their development, might lead to less need for consellors for adults and a better understanding of the human condition from an earlier age.

To quote something an adult said to a friend of mine when I was under 10:
Child: "Where do babies come from?"
Adult: "Daddy uses a big spoon to feed mummy and make her pregnant."

Is profanity really worse than the lies we already tell our children? Considering most animals have sex in public, I think our species could handle a little more openness and a little less propriety.

So, yeah, have 'profane' lyrics in your songs and humanity might benefit.

[Lord Ruthven]

It takes more talent than a lot of people think to rap - seriously, just try it! You'll sound even stupider than you might think the paid stars do.

Time for some sweeping statements: RPG fans tend to be middle-class, well-educated, smart people. Well-educated, middle-class, smart people tend not to live in neighbourhoods where profanity is the normal punctuation of speech.

I know I just posted, but I can't resist:

The GM looks at me,
I roll my D20,
I look down,
Then I frown
Coz I got a 1,
Looks like my luck has gone.

What the f***
I'm supposed to be a Paladin
Now I've gotta duck
Coz I'm beaten by a gob-a-lin
Critically hurt
My words are curt
I say f*** s****** f***
My chainmail shirt
Can't stop the damage.
Can't stop the sword.
There's a 1 in 20 chance
That I'll end up gored.

Doesn't matter what you do,
If fate wants your blood
Your dice will come up 1,
Whether you're evil or good.

This is a well-educated, middle-class role-player's attempt at rap.

[Myatar_Panwar]

I believe that swearing in music just gets the emotion of the song across all the better. Although I hate songs that just constantly swear where its not needed.

[General Leitmann]

As long as it's not out of context, and isn't used for the hell of it in the stead of words that would better fit the overall composition of the lyrics, it doesn't matter to me.

[Sisqui]

Well, I am not sure how that contradicts what I said. My only point is that the censorship that philosophers speak out against is the suppression and censorship of ideas, while many of the people here seem to equate that (rather inexplicably, in my mind) to censorship of language.

What is worse is that, by comparing the fact that you can't say c*** on TV to McCarthyism, you downplay the real damage being done by governments like China's.

It wasn't supposed to contradict you, it was supposed to give you another way to support your conclusions. I was agreeing with you! :smallsmile:

[Bears With Lasers]

This is a well-educated, middle-class role-player's attempt at rap.

Never try to rap again.

[Jack Squat]

This is a well-educated, middle-class role-player's attempt at rap.

say, what beat does that go to?

[The Orange Zergling]

Never try to rap again.

I thought it was funny.

[Adygias]

Rap has "bad words" in it because that's how people talk [in the social circles rappers tend to come from].

I realize that, but my point is that you're not using language effectively if you depend that heavily on a few words, and your art is going to suffer. The worst part of bad rap is that they don't even use profanity in an interesting way--they just use it because it's required.

[Don Julio Anejo]

I realize that, but my point is that you're not using language effectively if you depend that heavily on a few words, and your art is going to suffer. The worst part of bad rap is that they don't even use profanity in an interesting way--they just use it because it's required.

Actually I will disagree here in regards to regular speach. Swearing is a more effective use of language because it needs less words to say something.

[Tengu]

Swearing is understandable if used to express anger. Otherwise it's just immature and primitive, especially if used to show how "tough" you are, to try to add (and fail in it) comedic value, if used in everyday conversation just because, or when you are proud of it - all of those make you look like a monkey smoking a cig.

Posted by a guy who's swearing too much and is not happy about it, and tries to fight it.

[zeratul]

This may just be because i love greenday, and ben folds, lovethe commedian eddie izzard, and like the movie "the departed", but i dont mind swearing. I swear myself and dont mind it at all in music, tv, or movies.

[Fat Daddy]

Never really bothered me until I had kids. Now I get a little upset and frustrated that my little ones are subjected to it by morons with loud stereos and no consideration for anyone else.

[Jorkens]

I realize that, but my point is that you're not using language effectively if you depend that heavily on a few words, and your art is going to suffer.
I'm not sure it's about depending on swear words, it's more that people are going to write most naturally and fluently if they don't put artificial constraints on their language. (Aside - in quite a bit of commercial hip hop, I think the vocals work more as a textural element and to create atmosphere or excitement in a club than as a means of storytelling or communicating information. But that's kind of irrelevant.)

Side point - what are people's favorite lyrics that wouldn't be the same without swearing? A few quick ones:
The Pogues, The Sickbed of Cuchulainn:
"When you p***** yourself in Frankfurt and got syph down in Cologne
And you heard the rattling death trains as you lay there all alone.
Frank Ryan bought you whisky in a brothel in Madrid
And you decked some f****** blackshirt who was cursing all the yids"

Nick Cave - O'Malley's Bar for the phrase "with an ashtray as big as a f****** very big brick...." The version of Stagger Lee on the same album is good for potty mouth fans too...

Also nice is Arab Strap's "I work in a saloon, pouring s*** pints for s*** wages." Although I'm not sure that one works without Aiden Moffat's thick Glaswegian accent.

[zeratul]

so... whats people's view on swearing in music? Is it just one big no? Do you really not care? Or do you only allow some words? This thought didn't really occur to me until last night when I was writing some new lyrics for my band and I ended up using a certain word beginning in C... so, what's everyone's view on this sort of thing? :smallsmile:

on an unrelated topic what rymes with c***

[Ted_Stryker]

I know I just posted, but I can't resist:

...

This is a well-educated, middle-class role-player's attempt at rap.
You forgot to state that you're the plowingest guy in the USA.

[Beleriphon]

I like NWA, the group of them a whole wouldn't have worked anywhere near as well without a hefty dose of profanity.

I can't see Polite Ask Rebutt the Attempts of the Police to Arrest all African-American's for Crimes they Did Not Commit has quite the same punch as **** the Police.

BTW, my posts will not contain any form of self censoring, I'll leave that up to the filters that the boards have.

On the topic of censoring, anything that prevents a certain idea, concept, word or image from being publically consumed is censorship. The difference between government censorship and private is that private censorship is valid. As a private citizen I have the right to determine what I will allow in my home, the same way that Rich has the right to determine what he'll allow on the boards. Is banning political discussion censorship? Sure is, but then Rich doesn't want to deal with those discussions, and these aren't publically operated message boards.. If the White House website's message boards (lets assume for a moment that they exist) were to ban political discussion then you have a problem.

For ratings in TVs, movies and music I'm torn. While I agree that some level of rating is needed to allow for a quick and dirty idea of what that particular media contains the problem occurs that review is still necessary. If I go to the movies I know what I'm getting with a PG movie (generally pretty tame, think Star Wars type stuff) as opposed to an R rated movie (think Silence of the Lambs). The rating itself doesn't censor anything, all it does is classify that movie based on the content. Many artist try to get a certain rating through self censorship to get a much wider appeal for their movie, song, TV show, or whatever.

[Ceska]

I thought it was funny.

I thought it was better than most rap. Which doesn't say anything about what I think of it of course.

In general I don't mind profanity as long as it fits the song.

[knownaspirate]

most of the music i listen to has the occasional swear in it. for the most part i tend to stay away from rap. since well, rap is where you get into a lot of your serious debates about profanity in music. im mean seriously you have songs that talk about smackin' girls up.
personally i have no qualms about cursing. being a pirate and all, i do have a mouth like a salior.
the way i defend it, which is rare. is that music is art, and you shouldn't have to censor your art. me, i am an artist. and thus starving :P, but am i not allowed to paint naked people? that's seen as art, and i am also a writer, (i do alot of creative stuff), and writers tend to through in the occasional swear, i mean, you need to write how your charcters would talk, otherwise it's kinda trash.
i fully support musical artists. i am NOT a fan of the C word. if ever i use that, you know i'm really ticked. so longs as nothing is continualy bleeped out i'm cool.
support your local bands!
support freedom of lyrics!
support pirates!
well, if you're a ninja, maybe not that last one :P

[Artanis]

Side point - what are people's favorite lyrics that wouldn't be the same without swearing?
Charlie Daniels Band: The Devil Went Down to Georgia
"Devil, just come on back if you ever want to try again,
'Cause I told you once you son of a b****, I'm the best there's ever been."

The radio edit just isn't quite the same.

[Don Beegles]

No, and it doesn't work if you change it to "gun" either. The point is this guy just outplays the devil and then has the balls to insult him. You need that punch.