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gr8artist
2014-05-13, 03:27 PM
Something that I came up with today, and has not yet been clearly refined, but might be worth sharing and getting some insight on. Built for Pathfinder, but might work fine in 3.5 with some tweaking.


Barrage of Blows (Combat)

Each attack creates an opening, and with that moment of opportunity, you follow through with another strike.

Prerequisite: Combat Reflexes (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/combat-reflexes-combat)

Benefit: After hitting an opponent with a melee attack, if your attack roll beat his AC by 5 or more, you may spend an immediate action to make an attack of opportunity against the defending creature with your highest base attack bonus. This counts against your normal number of opportunities available in a round.

Special: Barrage of Blows is added to the Monk's list of bonus feats available at first level.

Unrelenting Tide (Combat)


You have mastered a variety of special attacks, each one making an opening for another, and always wearing your opponent down.

Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-unarmed-strike-combat---final); Two Weapon Fighting (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/two-weapon-fighting-combat---final), Flurry of Blows (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk) class feature, or BAB +6

Benefit: You gain the following special attacks. Each attack has a chain value, which represents the number of successful attacks that must be made in a single action before you can use that attack. For example, an attack with a chain value of 1 can be used as your second attack in a full-round action, whereas a chain value of 2 means you must be able to hit your opponent at least 2 times before using that special attack. You may chain attacks against only 1 opponent; if you attack a different enemy during your full-attack action, then the chain against your original target ends and you begin a new chain against the second enemy. Special attacks use your unarmed strike attack and damage rolls.

Palm Strike: Chain 0. You take a -2 penalty to this attack roll, but if you deal damage, the defending creature takes a -1 penalty to AC until the start of its next turn. This penalty stacks up to twice.
Abdominal Blow: Chain 1. You take a -2 penalty to this damage roll, but if you deal damage, the defending creature takes a -2 penalty to attack rolls and fortitude saves until the end of its next turn. This penalty stacks up to twice.
Uppercut: Chain 2. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature is staggered until the end of its next turn.

Special: Unrelenting Tide is added to the Monk's list of bonus feats available at first level.



You gain one special attack from the following list. Each time you use a special attack, make an unarmed attack and damage roll as normal, factoring in the attack's effects as they apply. Each special attack has two ratings: Initiate and Opening. These ratings describe the window of opportunity necessary to use the attack, and the window of opportunity created after dealing damage with it. Special attacks do not grant additional attacks in an action unless explicitly stated. When a special attack creates an opening, that opening is only applicable against the defending creature, has no benefit if your next attack is against a different defender. You cannot use a special attack immediately after itself, but may use a normal unarmed strike as if it were an attack with an initiate rating of any and an opening rating of lesser.
An attack with an initiate rating of any can be used any time you are allowed to make a melee attack.
An attack with an initiate rating of lesser can be used after a greater or lesser opening, though not usually as a standalone attack or a first attack in a full-attack action.
An attack with an initiate rating of greater can be used only after a greater opening, and never as a standalone attack or first attack in a series.
An attack with an opening rating of none cannot be followed by an attack with an initiate rating of lesser or greater.
An attack with an opening rating of finisher cannot be followed by any attack, and your full-attack action ends immediately after its resolution.
Any fortitude save required by these special attacks has a DC equal to the damage done by the attack.

Special: Unrelenting Tide is added to the Monk's list of bonus feats available at first level. You may take this feat multiple times, gaining a number of special attacks equal to the number of times you've selected this feat (1 initially, +2 the first time you retake it, +3 the next, then +4, +5, +6, etc.).


Palm Strike: You take a -2 penalty to this damage roll. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature is dazzled for 1 round, or 2 rounds if the attack was a critical hit.
​Initiate: Any. Opening: Lesser.

Groin Kick: You take a -2 penalty to this attack roll. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature must make a fortitude save or become sickened for 1 round, or 2 rounds if the attack was a critical hit.
Initiate: Any. Opening: Lesser.

Throat Punch: You take a -2 penalty to this attack roll. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature must make a fortitude save or become unable to breathe or speak for 1 round, or 2 rounds if the attack was a critical hit. Any spell the defending creature is attempting to cast with a verbal component automatically fails and is lost if they fail this save.
Initiate: Any. Opening: Lesser.

Eye Gouge: You take a -2 penalty to this attack and damage roll. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature must make a fortitude save or become blinded for 1 round, or 2 rounds if the attack was a critical hit.
Initiate: Any. Opening: Lesser.

Ear Smash: You take a -2 penalty to this attack roll. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature must make a fortitude save or become deafened for 1 round, or 2 rounds if the attack was a critical hit.
Initiate: Any. Opening: Lesser.

Uppercut: You take a -2 penalty to this attack roll. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature must make a fortitude save or become staggered for 1 round, or 2 rounds if the attack was a critical hit.
Initiate: Lesser. Opening: Greater.

Abdominal Strike: You take a -2 penalty to this damage roll. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature must make a fortitude save or become fatigued for 1 round, or 2 rounds if the attack was a critical hit. If the defending creature is unable to breathe or speak as a result of one of your attacks, then they automatically fail this save and the fatigue duration is increased to 3 rounds.
Initiate: Lesser. Opening: Greater.

Blackout Blow: You take a -2 penalty to this attack and damage roll. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature must make a fortitude save or become blinded and deafened for 1 round, or 2 rounds if the attack was a critical hit. If the defending creature is already blinded and deafened, when they fail this save, then the duration of each existing effect increases by 2 rounds.
Initiate: Lesser. Opening: Greater.

Knee Kick: You take a -2 penalty to this attack roll. If this attack deals damage, the defending creature must make a fortitude save or have its movement speed reduced by half for 1 round, or 2 rounds if the attack was a critical hit. During this time, they cannot take a 5 foot step as a free action, and they suffer a -2 penalty to their CMD against trip attempts.
Initiate: Lesser. Opening: Greater.

Judo Toss: You substitute this attack with a grapple attempt, and provoke no attacks from the defending creature for doing so, though you provoke from other enemies as normal. If your check succeeds, the defending creature is thrown prone in a square adjacent to you of your choosing. The grapple immediately ends, and the defending creature takes 2d6 nonlethal damage from its collision with the ground.
Initiate: Greater. Opening: None.

Leg Sweep: You substitute this attack with a trip attempt, and provoke no attacks from the defending creature for doing so, though you provoke from other enemies as normal. If your check succeeds, the defending creature falls prone in its square and takes 1d6 nonlethal damage from its collision with the ground.
Initiate: Greater. Opening: Lesser.

Wrist Wrencher: You substitute this attack with a disarm attempt, and provoke no attacks from the defending creature for doing so, though you provoke from other enemies as normal. If your check succeeds, the defending creature is disarmed and takes 1d6 nonlethal damage from the brutality of your hands. They must also succeed a fortitude save (DC 10 + damage dealt by the disarm) or must treat attacks with the disarmed hand as a off-hand or secondary natural attacks for 2 rounds.
Initiate: Greater. Opening: Lesser.

Neck Twist: You substitute this attack with a melee touch attack at 4 that deals no damage. If the attack succeeds, the defending creature takes 1d4 damage and must make a fortitude save (DC = total damage dealt to them during this turn) or be paralyzed permanently.
Initiate: Greater. Opening: Finisher.

TuggyNE
2014-05-13, 10:12 PM
A single feat introducing a whole new little subsystem seems excessive. Maybe break it out a little so you don't have two whole pages' worth of rules for that one use.

Other than that, these seem interesting, and not obviously broken in one direction or another.

gr8artist
2014-05-13, 10:51 PM
I was originally debating making the second feat into an alternate rule system, archetype, or prestige class for monks, but I thought this format would work well for a display of intent.
Other than the excessive complexity gained from a single feat, is Unrelenting Tide reasonable and understandable? Does the ability described do what is desired?

Kensen
2014-05-14, 07:12 AM
The first feat is pretty well written and seems OK to me.

I agree with TuggyNE about the second feat introducing too many rules at once.

Furthermore, the prerequisite about two or more attacks needs rewriting:


Prerequisite: Improved Unarmed Strike (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/improved-unarmed-strike-combat---final), ability to make more than 1 melee attack in a full-round action


Technically anyone can make two attacks even if they don't have TWF, flurry or bab +6:

"If you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. You suffer a 6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a 10 penalty to the attack with your off hand when you fight this way."

So, I'd advise using TWF, flurry and/or bab +6 as a prerequisite.

gr8artist
2014-05-14, 12:18 PM
Changed prerequisites for Unrelenting Tide, and simplified the mechanics a good bit.
Spoilered the old text for reference.
How's it look now?

Hadrian_Emrys
2014-05-14, 03:51 PM
-like a neat concept. However, given how monks are flurry of misses machines, that first one would typically be about as dead a feat as the fifth Fighter level.

The second one isn't even that complicated a mechanic, though I'd see myself sticking to spamming the first (as a nice party-assist) unless the collective would benefit more from the third landing once before the barrage of the first resumed.

TuggyNE
2014-05-14, 06:18 PM
Changed prerequisites for Unrelenting Tide, and simplified the mechanics a good bit.
Spoilered the old text for reference.
How's it look now?

Pretty good, really. It's now about on par with the tactical feats in terms of complexity.

Gildedragon
2014-05-15, 12:00 AM
These are really good feats.
Unrelenting Tide actually boosts the use of Flurry of Blows. It wouldn't be bad to see more things added to it (or other chain feats/maneuvers) to bring in stuff like throws, or damage boosters... It is great!

gr8artist
2014-05-15, 01:28 PM
That's kinda' what I was thinking.
Though, I'm a bit torn on how to proceed with unlocking more combo options for UT.
Option A: You take the feat multiple times, getting new combo options each time.
Option B: There are "Improved Unrelenting Tide" feats that have their own combo options.
Option C: UT gives you additional combo options as your BAB reaches certain levels.

And, to clarify, palm strike only works until the end of the attacker's turn; it wouldn't grant a benefit to anyone else.

Gildedragon
2014-05-15, 01:54 PM
That's kinda' what I was thinking.
And, to clarify, palm strike only works until the end of the attacker's turn; it wouldn't grant a benefit to anyone else.

Odd little thing; since Palm Strike needs no prior attack it can be used as an Attack of Oportunity, which means it happens during someone else's turn... since the penalty to AC lasts until the end of one's own turn it would last up to about a full round.
You need to specify that the AC penalty is either against you alone (which could be as easily phrased as "you gain a +2 bonus to attacks against them" ) or allow it to just ruin their AC for everyone, it is a cute little debuff if that is the case.

Make it a feat chain, or different [combo] feats that have different related maneuvers attached to them.
So for a tossy sort of attack
0 -punch+grapple
1 -throw
2 -jump+hit (volley?)
3 -pin prone?

gr8artist
2014-05-15, 02:20 PM
Hmm, good points.
I hadn't thought of using palm strike as an AoO. And I also hadn't thought of making a separate rule system for [Combo] feats, which might allow me to go back to the original design (initiates and openings) rather than the simpler and less exact current design (chain values).

While I edit Palm Strike, I'm curious as to how many people prefer the new system, as opposed to how many would like to see [Combo] feats made into an alternate rule system (like [Teamwork] feats are now).

Gildedragon
2014-05-15, 03:29 PM
Well, naturally, I like the idea of a separate feat category. It is cool and allows expansion
But I do like chain values; they are simple, intuitive, and modular. There is little need to add lots of complexity in rules.

Also the sort of staggering power of Palm Strike is cool for multiple players. A -2 to ac until the start of THEIR turn would be a cool way to do it. The monk goes in, softens the guy up for the rest of the team, jumps out of the way and combat continues...

Reading through the old text I see some dirty fighting happening there; that is so a feat:
Forbidden Hand
with stuff like kicking dirt up, tripping, drawing a hidden weapon, groinstrikes...

gr8artist
2014-05-15, 07:01 PM
OK, palm strike has been buffed to help allies' attacks, but has had the penalty halved. Fortunately, the penalty stacks up to two times.

Also, I just realized that you can still miss some of your attacks and it doesn't end the combo chain. I had intended it to be consecutive successful attacks, but now I'm wondering if I should leave it as is.
Opinions?

I will likely be developing a [combo] feat ruleset, which will be its own thread but which I will link here.

Gildedragon
2014-05-15, 08:00 PM
Eh leave it as is; otherwise it would just be really frustrating to be lining up, miss and then have wasted your turn piling on effects

ericgrau
2014-05-17, 05:35 PM
It's somewhat interesting, but adding hits and removing them from the enemy seems a little bland. Moar hits also has the problem of being weak for high op. And at any level of optimization, possibly a trap enforcing the stereotype of a monk as a purely unarmed fighter . Uppercut is the only nice exception. More status effects might be nice.