PDA

View Full Version : Pathfinder Character Points [Crossroads][Gear Reduction System]



Admiral Squish
2014-05-23, 12:04 PM
Character Points
Created for the Crossroads: The New World (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?345327-Crossroads-II-I-m-on-a-Mammoth) setting.

Magic items are an important part of any adventurerís career. Many warriors have been saved by trusty magic armor, and many lucky shots have been possible thanks to a magical bow. Other items can save lives, protecting their wearers from falling down a chasm or roasting in a fiery trap. But one rarely seems to notice their items. When was the last time you were thankful to a +2 ring of protection? Or a cape of resistance?

In the world of crossroads, though magic is common, magic items are less so. Though just as powerful, and at the same price as traditional versions, these items are more special and unique, each often bearing a tale of its own and a distinctive appearance. Magic items are often be made from the body parts of fallen monsters, some even from those the players themselves have slain. Others are the work of dedicated craftsmen who put a personal touch on every item they sell.

The Ďstandardí magic items that most characters are required to have are gone, replaced by character points. Game masters are advised to reduce player wealth by level by an amount between one half and two thirds. The value points lost in this way are then converted into character points, one character point for every 1000 value points. Character points gained can then be spent at any time in any of the following categories. The bonuses granted by character points are suppressed inside an antimagic field unless otherwise noted, but do not react to a dispel magic effect.

Ability Scores:
Enhancement Bonus
A character can spend character points to gain a mystical bonus to their ability scores. This is an enhancement bonus, and it does not stack with any other enhancement bonus. A character can enhance any number of ability scores, but must pay for each scoreís bonus separately.



Enhancement Bonus
Point Cost


+2
4


+4
16


+6
36


Inherent Bonus
A character can also spend character points to gain an inherent bonus to their ability scores. A character can improve any number of ability scores, but must pay for each scoreís bonus separately. These bonuses are not suppressed in an antimagic field.



Inherent Bonus
Point Cost


+1
27


+2
55


+3
82


+4
110


+5
137


Armor Class
Deflection Bonus
A character can spend character points to enhance their defenses, harnessing mystical forces to deflect attacks from their body. They gains the listed bonus as a deflection bonus to armor class.



Deflection Bonus
Point Cost


+1
2


+2
8


+3
18


+4
32


+5
50


Natural Armor
A character can spend character points to enhance their natural armor, their skin becoming tougher and more resistant to damage. They gain the listed bonus as an enhancement bonus to natural armor.



NA Enhancement
Point cost


+1
2


+2
8


+3
18


+4
32


+5
50


Saves:
Resistance
A character can spend character points to increase their defenses, making them harder to hit with special effects and spells. They gain the listed bonus as a resistance bonus to all saves.



Resistance Bonus
Point Bost


+1
1


+2
4


+3
9


+4
16


+5
25


Skills:
Competence
A character can spend character points to improve their skills, making them more competent. They gain the listed bonus as a competence bonus to Acrobatics, Escape Artist, Jump, Perception, Stealth, or Swim checks. They can improve as many skills as they like, but must pay for each one separately.



Competence Bonus
Point Cost


+5
2


+10
10


Energy Resistance:
Resistance
A character can spend character points to protect themselves from energy attacks. They gain the listed value of energy resistance against Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Sonic. They can have as many energy resistances as they want, but must pay for each one separately.



Energy Resistance
Point Cost


10
12


20
28


30
44

Admiral Squish
2014-05-23, 12:10 PM
Alright, I made this with some inspiration from this very cool and balanced project (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?134805-Balanced-Low-Magic-Item-System), I just wanted there to be a version that covered exactly what we wanted it to cover, without getting into other things.

I was considering making this cover weapons, armor, and shield enhancement bonuses, too, but I can't figure out how to jive that with the scaling costs put forth by increasing effective enhancement bonuses. I would like some way to encourage players to go for items with special abilities more than regular enhancement bonuses, though. I feel they would help make items in the setting even more distinctive.

Commentary? Suggestions for other things this should cover? Balance issues? Let me know!

Mith
2014-05-23, 03:09 PM
How many character points does one get per level roughly? Is there a chart with this or charts that I can use to figure out a rough idea of what a character gains through level progression?

Admiral Squish
2014-05-23, 05:45 PM
How many character points does one get per level roughly? Is there a chart with this or charts that I can use to figure out a rough idea of what a character gains through level progression?

It depends on how much wealth the DM decides to reduce your treasure haul by. If they follow the suggestion, you would be receiving character points somewhere between 1/2000 and 2/3000 of the values given under wealth for PCs on this chart (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/character-advancement).

I suppose I could make such a chart. These are totals for the recommended high end and low end at each level.

Level
Low End
High End
1st
0
0
2nd
.5
.66
3rd
1.5
2
4th
3
4
5th
5.25
6.9
6th
8
10.5
7th
11.75
15.5
8th
16.5
22
9th
23
30.25
10th
31
41
11th
41
54
12th
54
71.25
13th
70
92.5
14th
92.5
122
15th
120
160
16th
157.5
208
17th
205
270.5
18th
265
350
19th
342.5
452
20th
440
580.75

Steckie
2014-05-24, 06:20 AM
People still love finding loot they can immediatly use for their character. For some that's half the reason they play the game. This system kinda takes the fun out of finding loot. Sure there are still other magic items to be found, but finding a belt of hill giant strength and items similar to that wont happen anymore.
I could see this work as some sort of socket or charm system. You already stated that people make items out of body parts of slain enemies, so just expand on that and have characters sometimes take a small part of a slain enemy as a charm that will give you the same bonus as the character points.
For example: Bruce Willis the barbarian kills a mammoth. Victoriously he cuts open the body, takes one of the tusks and makes a club out of it. He also takes a tooth and hangs it on his necklace to go with the orca tooth he already had. It's a great weapon and he proudly uses it to go hunting again. He finds a pack of wolves on the prowl and quicly assaults them. The alpha wolf is the thoughest and is killed last. Bruce Willis takes the tip of the wolf's tail and braids it into his hair. He feels empowered by the spirit of the wolf and the spirit of the mammoth and the spirit of the orca.
Mechanically he now has 3 character points (charms) and is able to take a +2 enhancement bonus for strength.
Although, this does mean that table you posted wouldn't work anymore, carrying 440 charms on your body will look a bit silly :smallsmile:

Admiral Squish
2014-05-24, 03:00 PM
The system's not going to stop people from receiving loot. The idea is to make it so players don't have a half-dozen nondescript items that they don't have any kind of emotional investment in, and oftentimes, don't even have any description. I mean, can you actually describe the last stat-boosting item you had? Or your last ring of protection? Instead, the loot you actually receive will be more unique and memorable. Magic weapons, armor, and shields, items with special abilities and unique powers.
It's not supposed to be about eliminating gear, just reducing it enough that a character will only have a few, interesting items.

I don't think the charm/socket idea is going to work. I mean, that might work for a native character, though perhaps it might be a little stereotypical, but can you imagine a Spaniard partaking in such heathen rituals?

SuperDave
2014-06-02, 08:52 AM
I don't see this system as "taking the fun out of getting items", so much as " making it possible to travel without teleportation and bags of holding". Though I do like your idea for encouraging players to make fetishes out of their slain enemies.

Perhaps European characters with an aversion to heathen magic might instead opt to turn their slain foes into religiously-minded trinkets? For example, carving and alligator's tooth into an icon of St Francis of Assisi, the patron saint of animals, to grant oneself "protection against animals".

A 20th-level character wouldn't necessarily have to carry 440 trinkets on their person; they could just trade several smaller items for one bigger and better item as they advance, or sacrifice them to their god in exchange for power.

Question: which of these bonuses, if any, would be dispelled by antimagic fields?

Also, if players have less wealth, then should we be adjusting the GP-rewards for the monsters in the Call to Brew thread?

Mith
2014-06-02, 02:19 PM
Maybe have them reduced in Antimagic fields if it is a protection field, and unable to release charges like a ray of frost or healing. So everything is personal effects.

Admiral Squish
2014-06-02, 02:26 PM
I don't see this system as "taking the fun out of getting items", so much as " making it possible to travel without teleportation and bags of holding". Though I do like your idea for encouraging players to make fetishes out of their slain enemies.

Perhaps European characters with an aversion to heathen magic might instead opt to turn their slain foes into religiously-minded trinkets? For example, carving and alligator's tooth into an icon of St Francis of Assisi, the patron saint of animals, to grant oneself "protection against animals".

A 20th-level character wouldn't necessarily have to carry 440 trinkets on their person; they could just trade several smaller items for one bigger and better item as they advance, or sacrifice them to their god in exchange for power.

Question: which of these bonuses, if any, would be dispelled by antimagic fields?

Also, if players have less wealth, then should we be adjusting the GP-rewards for the monsters in the Call to Brew thread?

The point is, even if there are ways to justify the idea of taking parts of slain critters and making them into 'tokens' worth X character points, it poses two problems.
One, it feels extremely forced, and characters from very different cultures would have to justify why they're doing this. Maybe a particularly faithful character might do such a thing, but what about an atheist? Or just some river-barge dude? What about a fusang scholar?
Two, I only just realized, but what you're talking about is, essentially, taking a system designed to reduce the insane amount of gear that the average character carries, and converting it BACK into unneccesary gear.

I shall take a moment to go into effects which would be suppressed in antimagic fields.

No, the GP rewards are how the DM keeps track of how much loot the players are owed, the monster doesn't poof immediately into items and cash as it dies. Plus, the DM is supposed to be able to determine exactly how much they want to turn into character points, if we prescribe specific amounts of rewards in GP/character points, that takes away that freedom.
I suppose it would help explain how you get loot-equivalent from non-item-carrying enemies, like animals and such. But that would mean rewriting a significant portion of the rewards system.

Steckie
2014-06-06, 04:30 PM
Can points spent be sold again? And how would that be explained ingame?

Is there a respec option to shift around the Character Points already spent into something else?

How will this work with a Dispel magic spell?

How is this explained ingame if not via a charm system?
Payment for training perhaps? That would make everything permanent though. But training time would replace crafting time for an item.

Admiral Squish
2014-06-06, 06:47 PM
Can points spent be sold again? And how would that be explained ingame?

Is there a respec option to shift around the Character Points already spent into something else?

How will this work with a Dispel magic spell?

How is this explained ingame if not via a charm system?
Payment for training perhaps? That would make everything permanent though. But training time would replace crafting time for an item.

I hadn't really decided on an in-game explanation for this whole thing. I suppose I could take a crack at it though...

As an adventurer grows in experience, they begin to gather ambient magic of the world into an aura called mana. Different cultures have different words and names for this subtle power, but the term mana is what we'll use to describe it. The individual's mana grows as their power grows, as their deeds become greater and their and renown spreads, whether for good or for evil. Mana could be equated with influence, the ability to change the outcome of things, or with power, but it's not quite either of those. Mana can't be transferred, given away, or taken from the character, once gathered it becomes inherently attached to their very soul, their essence. Individuals subconsciously harness their mana, many not even aware that such a thing exists, to aid them in their adventures, drawing the mana in and using it to empower themselves in different ways according to their deepest desires. Mana can make a warrior stronger, or a scholar smarter, or it can harden their skin against attacks, or even provide a measure of resistance against unusual effects. For some reason, only sentient beings are capable of accumulating mana.

All characters with adventurer levels possess mana, though it may be too small to do anything at the lower levels. A character gains mana points in lieu of gold rewards from the DM, mana benefits usually replacing 1/2 to 2/3 of the character's typical wealth by level, though the DM determines exactly how much if each reward is gold or mana. A single mana point replaces approximately 1000 gold worth of treasure. Mana points are 'invested', though the character may not even realize what they're doing, on the various categories below, granting the appropriate bonuses as the tables indicate when the total investment reaches the appropriate number of points. Investing unassigned mana is instantaneous, but it is much more troublesome to move once it's invested. Once the character decides subconsciously to reassign their mana from one pool to another, the mana reacts, flowing from one to the other slowly. At the end of each hour after the decision is made, one mana point is deducted from the pool that is losing points, and placed into the new category. The bonuses of these pools change as the process continues. Mana moves at twice this rate, two points per hour, while the character is asleep or resting (though dreams while mana is moving tend to be very vivid and extremely strange). Mana is inherently magical, and it reacts to various effects as a permanent spell effect (each category mana points are invested into counts as a separate effect) on the character, with a caster level equal to the character's level. A successful dispel magic effect will suppress one of the mana's current benefits for 1d6 minutes, and all effects are suppressed inside an antimagic field. However, mana effects cannot be permanently destroyed by any means other than the character reassigning all points out of a given pool.


Well, I will admit, I wasn't expecting that. How's that?

Lappy9001
2014-06-07, 12:49 AM
I like it :smallsmile:

So, you can 'level up' your character point bonuses by taking the higher one, correct? If I take a +2 Enhancement to Dexterity and I want more, I'll have to buy the +4 Enhancement?

I feel like they're a little basic, but that might be the point; you get the essential bonuses and you can pick up the other utility stuff in actual magic items.

As for the explanation...I really wouldn't worry about it. Avatar d20 doesn't give an explanation for using the Defense (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/defenseBonus.htm) bonus rules. Eberron doesn't explain why PC's possess Action Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/actionPoints.htm) (outside of the fact that both rules fit the theme of the setting). People can fluff it as items or charms if they choose, but it's an abstraction, and can exist simply because it reflects the theme of the world.

1pwny
2014-06-07, 10:50 AM
I like it.

'Nuff said. For me, at least. :smallcool:

Admiral Squish
2014-06-08, 10:15 PM
You don't pay the full price of the upgrade, you just have to pay the difference in points/mana until you get to the new number. I'll be sure to clarify.

Their basic-ness is indeed intentional.

I suppose so... Still, defense bonus is easily explained as combat experience/training allow you to better avoid being hit. Action points are inherently meta, but in-game they could be explained as using up some inherent willpower. This system has a real effect on the world, and the rest of that world can affect it, it seems like it would need an in-world explanation to go with it.