How tough is redcloak?

[Professor Tanhauser]

Well, let's see. Miko barely kicked his ass after a fight that lasted longer than 4 rounds, and it was obviously tough on her.

Now miko beat the entire Order when she was a paladin, and she could barely beat redcloak while a paladin.

So how tough is redlcoak? I mean he may at least equal the conbined order in that miko could just defeat either, which woulod make him, I guess, fairly tough.

But how tough, and is most of his toughness due to his magic power or does he have good attributes too? I think he's smarter than xykon, and I always thought gobbos weren't supposed to be that bright.

[Incendax]

Redcloak is CoDzilla. It's not particularly suprising that he would casually overpower the majority of characters. Amusingly, Durkon seems to have the wisdom as a player not to overshadow the other characters on a regular basis and is only a CoDzilla in hiding.

[Lord Nyax]

Miko didn't really beat the entire Order; the fight was slightly stacked. Miko did get Redcloak into a position where she could have easily killed him, in 1v1 melee-range combat. So, under virtually ideal Paladin-combat circumstances she managed to subdue him...personally I'm going with Redcloak being a pretty tough goblin.

[Shattersnap]

Redcloak is definitely not somebody to be underestimated.

He's got a larger role to play in this story that has been alluded to in his relationship with Miko. I beleive he will actually turn out to be quite powerful. It will probably take most or all of the order to bring him down.

[Thomar_of_Uointer]

Redcloak's battle with Miko went poorly because Miko is especially built to handle enemy spellcasters. She has awesome saves, d10 Hit Dice, and is lethal when making full attacks. Redcloak didn't have time to buff himself. He also expected Xykon to back him up (also see below), which is why he allowed himself to engage in melee in the first place.

Redcloak has a motivation that hasn't been fully revealed yet. Miko said he was "a soulless nihilist who seeks to undo all creation", quite interesting in context of the gates. A probable theory is that Redcloak intends to release the Snarl so that it destroys the original pantheons, allowing his Evil Goblin Deity and the other gods that came after them to remake the world in a manner reminescent of the Dhakaani nation from Eberron.

[Pvednes]

He's a high-level cleric. Very tough indeed.

He may be in a green adventure-fodder body, but he's brimming with evil powers and is not to be underestimated.

[Rumda]

not to mention his high level of tactical knowledge

[Delgarde]

Couldn't guess at his actual level, but yeah, that fight with Miko suggests he's a much more notable character than I'd previously assumed.

Not just because they were closely matched - but because she identifies him as "The Bearer of the Crimson Mantle". She doesn't recognise Xykon until someone names him, but she recognises Redcloak. That's pretty interesting.

[The Hammer of Thor]

Redcloak seems pretty tough. He's got all those spells, a tactical mind, is competent (unlike most of the Order, his hobgoblin army, the Saphire guard and maybe even Xykon), and he's a major character with his own plot arc.

He's gonna be pretty tough.

He's got a plan. He's gonna take over the army and use the Snarl. Xykon will be left alone, pretty much like Miko will be, and Redcloak will have control.

[Cifer]

Not just because they were closely matched - but because she identifies him as "The Bearer of the Crimson Mantle". She doesn't recognise Xykon until someone names him, but she recognises Redcloak.
Well, she recognizes the office he has.

[Pronounceable]

I think Redcloak is as powerful as paladin Miko. And possibly more. He lost only because Miko had a character shield (read: railroad).

He's the subboss of the campaign, he HAS to be powerful enough to take half of OotS down.

[PirateMonk]

Redcloak is CoDzilla. It's not particularly suprising that he would casually overpower the majority of characters. Amusingly, Durkon seems to have the wisdom as a player not to overshadow the other characters on a regular basis and is only a CoDzilla in hiding.

Another way he's Leeky's opposite, I guess. He mostly just heals and turns, with the occasional Might or Lightning in emergencies, while Leeky has spent his screen time almost exclusively with PC-stomping trees.

Yes, Redcloak is very, very tough.

:redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak: :redcloak:

[Black of Night]

Now miko beat the entire Order when she was a paladin, and she could barely beat redcloak while a paladin.


But did you see how Roy prettymuch took her out without breaking a sweat reciently? Yes, she was stripped of her paladin status, but it looks as though she retained her abilities.

As for Redcloak, I agree he's a force to be reckoned with and probably has his own plotline and agenda.

P.S. Prof., Where did you get that Lexx gif?

[Green Bean]

Redcloak is certainly more powerful than he lets on. I mean, he almost beat a high level paladin with no buffs active. Imagine what he could do with time to prepare. Now the real question is Redcloak vs. Xykon...

[FujinAkari]

But did you see how Roy prettymuch took her out without breaking a sweat reciently? Yes, she was stripped of her paladin status, but it looks as though she retained her abilities.

As for Redcloak, I agree he's a force to be reckoned with and probably has his own plotline and agenda.

P.S. Prof., Where did you get that Lexx gif?

Miko retained none of her abilities, except those from her first three or so levels of monk. She was fighting Roy as a fighter, except without the bonus feats.

[Snake-Aes]

Redcloak is certainly more powerful than he lets on. I mean, he almost beat a high level paladin with no buffs active. Imagine what he could do with time to prepare. Now the real question is Redcloak vs. Xykon...Clerics are made for the undead. He'd be higher "CR" than his actual cleric level for that. Dunno, mitd's loyal to Xykon, not RedCloak

[Megalomaniac2]

Redcloak's power is an interesting thing. His role in the fight in Dorukan's throne room was very small- a single 'bolster undead' spell. And we know that he and Xykon meant for Miko to escape, which means that he may have thrown the match. I think we have yet to see the real Redcloak in more ways than one.

P.S.: What is this CoDzilla everyone keeps mentioning?

[Dabble]

My opinion:

Redcloak is tough, he did lose to Miko in a 1 on 1 melee but so has most anyone else. I would put it as at least as tough as Hinjo, and I think that Roy vs Redcloak would be a really good battle. But if I remember back in the day, way in the beginning, the whole Oots were stopped by a cleric casting Unholy Blight (well except our favorite dagger weilding halfling)

Is it possible that such a spell again would have the same effect? Given of course that all of the Oots are more powerful than they were way back then.

In any case, we know Redcloak is tough, probably tougher than any of us give him credit for. He is closer to a PC in the fact that he actually thinks, and can plan not like some mindless creature.

[Green Bean]

My opinion:

Redcloak is tough, he did lose to Miko in a 1 on 1 melee but so has most anyone else. I would put it as at least as tough as Hinjo, and I think that Roy vs Redcloak would be a really good battle. But if I remember back in the day, way in the beginning, the whole Oots were stopped by a cleric casting Unholy Blight (well except our favorite dagger weilding halfling)

Is it possible that such a spell again would have the same effect? Given of course that all of the Oots are more powerful than they were way back then.

In any case, we know Redcloak is tough, probably tougher than any of us give him credit for. He is closer to a PC in the fact that he actually thinks, and can plan not like some mindless creature.

Redcloak is a lot tougher than Hinjo. Hinjo almost got killed by :miko: when she was both wounded and fallen. He only got one attack in. Redcloak had a fight with a 'fully charged' :miko:, and he almost won.

[Rumda]

Clerics are made for the undead. He'd be higher "CR" than his actual cleric level for that. Dunno, mitd's loyal to Xykon, not RedCloak
What are you talking about Redcloak prides him self on being a 100% natural goblin

[fehler]

Xy and RC were looking for a paladin in the guard towers, so I doubt he entered the battle unbuffed. He just had to act surprised when they met her so as to not give away their intentions to let her escape.

Besides, who knows how many levels of experience RC got from those good-infested dungeons he had to clear out for Xy.

[Rumda]

they were hoping to find a paladin which doesn't mean the were expecting to run into the strongest one

[silvadel]

One interesting thing about redcloak and miko's reaction to him...

IF the OOTS had brought up Redcloak instead of Xykon the Lich when first meeting Miko -- maybe they would have had a different reaction (because Miko would be LOTS more likely to jump to the conclusion that Redcloak would want that gate destroyed making it much less their fault AND because RC is a major threat while the lich is just a nuiscence in Miko's eyes back then).

[Snake-Aes]

What are you talking about Redcloak prides him self on being a 100% natural goblinI meant that their power is usually potentialized against undead when compared to anything else. -.-'

[WhiteNoise]

other things to note Redcloak in a serious battle will toss off slay living and unholy blight most likly at whim, he certainly didnt hesitate to slay living when taking command of the hobgoblins,

At Dorukan's gate RC stayed out of it as that was his job, Xy being in charge wanted RC to take the phylactery clear because Xy was planning for all eventualities, he also had MitD not get involved,

At the guard tower RC was holding back as much as possible is my guess, as they wanted miko alive/captured, otherwise im sure RC would have been unloading a vast array of nasty mid to high level cleric spells

[factotum]

P.S.: What is this CoDzilla everyone keeps mentioning?

I think they're referring to the fact Clerics and Druids in D&D aren't really BAD at anything, and they're good at many things also, which means they can easily get overpowered at high levels. After all, who is the only member of OotS wearing heavy plate armour and carrying a shield? It isn't the meat shield fighter!

(CoDzilla = Cleric or Druid zilla, as in Godzilla).

[Iranon]

This can't be stressed enough: He phyiscally jumped into melee against a high-level paladin (optimised against evil spellcasters, no less), unarmored and unarmed, with no preparation. And apparently he knew something of Miko's capabilities given that his first spell is Harm. And he damn near won!

Given his usually understated nature, seeing him like that was a little scary.

[Sethis]

He gave up a lot with giving up a round of actions after the destruction, waiting for Xykon to help. He would have won otherwise, one more harm and bye bye.

[Sky_Schemer]

Miko retained none of her abilities, except those from her first three or so levels of monk. She was fighting Roy as a fighter, except without the bonus feats.

The only abilities she lost that mattered in this fight were lay hands and spells, and we've never seen her use the latter. Maybe summoning her mount, too. Smiting evil certainly wasn't going to get her anywhere.

[Iramus_the_odd]

Redcloak is uber! His greatest asset is his sardonic wit! Its cuts like a knife. Oh and he is the primary care giver for a looney tunes lich.

[silvadel]

In the original D&D clerics werent quite so tough -- the problem you have then is nobody wants to play a cleric. This is also a problem in some MMRPGs -- if the healers arent a little overpowered then nobody wants to play one as the healer IS the best target for the monsters (so he needs good defense) and since just being a healbot isnt all that fun, he needs other abilities as well.

As for redcloak. He could take on a no-holds barred Miko with full powers with no prep and throw-away rounds. Note also that RC and XY had no trouble whatsoever slaying silver dragons and celestials. I think if redcloak gained a couple more levels he would have to start looking into the epic-level handbook.

[Aquillion]

Now the real question is Redcloak vs. Xykon...Er, doesn't Redcloak wear Xykon's phylactery around his neck? It wouldn't actually be a fight. Xykon probably wouldn't even know he'd been betrayed, just *foomp* and gone.

[Mathias_Tanavar]

I always guessed Red Cloak to be about levle 18 (if the OotS are 12) whereas Xykon in his mid 20's

[rgoodfellow]

Redcloak is certainly more powerful than he lets on. I mean, he almost beat a high level paladin with no buffs active. Imagine what he could do with time to prepare. Now the real question is Redcloak vs. Xykon...

I would say I go with Xykon on this given is powers whenever he casts a spell. Say taking out a castle brimming with powerful celestial beings, but then Roy did just pick the skeleton dude up and toss him into a gate. So...

[Closet_Skeleton]

Redcloak's power is an interesting thing. His role in the fight in Dorukan's throne room was very small- a single 'bolster undead' spell.

Technically, Bolster Undead isn't a spell it's a function of Rebuke Undead.

Yay for meaningless nitpicking that adds nothing to the conversation.

Redcloak is probably at least 15th level. He seems to be the one that's controlling most of those ghouls. Though the Giant seems to be ignoring the rather restricting but more PC orientated undead controlling limits.

[Copacetic]

He kicks @$$. thats all you need to know. If you want details take it up in the class and level geekery thread.

[Celisasu]

All I know is that Redcloak is the plot point I want to know the most about as he's my favorite. Well and I want to know what MitD is but I honestly don't expect to find out ever(I figure he'll be under that umbrella even after the series ends).

[PirateMonk]

Er, doesn't Redcloak wear Xykon's phylactery around his neck? It wouldn't actually be a fight. Xykon probably wouldn't even know he'd been betrayed, just *foomp* and gone.

So liches die when they're phylactery is destroyed?