Latest Starter/Basic Q&A 6/6/2014

[Alefiend]

Mike Mearls and Rodney Thompson take questions about just what will be in the starter, in Basic, and in expansions. Listen (http://youtu.be/UYsdjZcfHm4). June 6, 2014.

[StabbityRabbit]

After hearing everything they have to say, and being given a better idea of what modules will be like; I feel like they should call D&D:Next D&D:GURPS.

Also did it rub people the wrong way that 4e fans have to wait till october to be allowed a place in the rules (through an optional module which may or may not actually make the rules feel more like 4e) or was that just me.

I would like to say that even though I have my gripes, listening to Mearls and Thompson has made me kind of hopeful for Next, or at least basic.

[captpike]

meh I am still not sold on the whole "modules exist" thing

so they are including the mods in the DMG...I Guess they don't like players knowing the rules unless your just playing the stock game.

it sounds like they are thinking of mods not as ways to change your game to something you want but small tweaks that the DM (and only the DM) can change once everyone knows the system.
I wonder how many people they will lose because they look at the PHB, don't see anything like what they were promised (tactical combat for example) and never look at it again

I love how they keep talking about how spells are "iconic" but they never once say they try something new, or different. everyone knows that new is bad.

so they only say they started making the math better, and found a way to predict how hard a fight would be when they were making the first adventure that comes with the game...
it seams to me that would be one of the FIRST things you would do, not the last.
also from the way they are talking "we game this creature 10 more hp, this guy got another die of damage.." it sounds like they are just winging it, rather then relying on a strong mathematical model.

they still don't get that if you don't have your math at least close, trying to get the "feel" of classes is useless at best, misleading at worst.

even they think the name "D&D Next" is stupid, they are calling it 5th edition

[da_chicken]

I just think that someone decided the reason they had so many problems with 4e is because of the complexity of the rules. Clearly, they thought Essentials was necessary to streamline the game and make the minimum system mastery much lower of a hurdle to get over. I think it's clear they've decided that complexity was one of the problems 4e had that never got corrected.

D&D is a major presence in the tabletop RPG market, and it's what introduces a lot of new players to the game genre. For most people outside the hobby, if you say "role playing" to them without context they're as likely to think of bedroom games as table top games, but if you say "D&D" they know exactly what you mean. It's the brand that defined the genre. I mean, if you want new players to come back to your table you don't start out with HERO or Palladium.

So, if D&D is the intro game and a game for advanced play as well, how do you structure the game rules to support that? You put the basic rules in the PHB, and the advanced rules in another book to keep them logically separate. In this case, they chose the DMG. That's as appropriate as anything, as historically the DMG has included optional campaign rules.


even they think the name "D&D Next" is stupid, they are calling it 5th edition

It's just a development name. Like how Khans of Tarkir block is Huey / Dewey / Louie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Magic:_The_Gathering_sets), or how Windows Vista was "Longhorn" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_codenames), or how the Nintendo Wii was called "Revolution". They do this because development happens before marketing, and marketing decides on the product name. Additionally, if they decide to scrap development, you don't have to worry about using the name again. After all, if they called the test "D&D 5E", then scrapped it before releasing it, and 5 years from now decided to try again, would you call it "D&D 5E" or "D&D 6E"?

[Kurald Galain]

I just think that someone decided the reason they had so many problems with 4e is because of the complexity of the rules. Clearly, they thought Essentials was necessary to streamline the game and make the minimum system mastery much lower of a hurdle to get over. I think it's clear they've decided that complexity was one of the problems 4e had that never got corrected.

Yes. In particular, character creation in both 3E and 4E is downright horrible for novice players. Look, here's a list of a thousand feats; you must pick one of them now and make sure it's a good one!

[1337 b4k4]

Yes. In particular, character creation in both 3E and 4E is downright horrible for novice players. Look, here's a list of a thousand feats; you must pick one of them now and make sure it's a good one!

Indeed, in fact they touch on this in the Q&A when talking about why the starter set comes with pre-gens instead of character creation rules. Their goal is to reduce to the barest minimum the number of steps and decisions between opening the box and actually playing the game. Character creation is a huge collection of steps and decisions, and as they rightly point out, if you're new to the game, you can't really make any of those decisions until you understand how the game works.

[Person_Man]

Yes, the rules have been too complex for beginners. So I understand the desire to make free Basic D&D as basic as possible. But D&D has also always been a game for enthusiasts. For every newb who just wants to pick up some funny dice and play, there's at least one grognard who spends hours on character creation and likes it that way. And I'm sure there are plenty of people in the middle, who want to be able to express their character idea in the rules, but with a minimum of hassle and no "trap" character options. So I think it's a mistake not to have character creation rules in the free Basic D&D rules. It hides a big part of the game from begginers instead of easing them into a more simplified creation process, and it's basically a middle finger to everyone who enjoys spending hours on character creation. A better strategy would be to include character creation rules, but not make them a convoluted nightmare.

[1337 b4k4]

Yes, the rules have been too complex for beginners. So I understand the desire to make free Basic D&D as basic as possible. But D&D has also always been a game for enthusiasts. For every newb who just wants to pick up some funny dice and play, there's at least one grognard who spends hours on character creation and likes it that way. And I'm sure there are plenty of people in the middle, who want to be able to express their character idea in the rules, but with a minimum of hassle and no "trap" character options. So I think it's a mistake not to have character creation rules in the free Basic D&D rules. It hides a big part of the game from begginers instead of easing them into a more simplified creation process, and it's basically a middle finger to everyone who enjoys spending hours on character creation. A better strategy would be to include character creation rules, but not make them a convoluted nightmare.

I believe you misunderstand. The Basic D&D rules (the free PDF that will be available for download) will have character creation rules for the main 4 classes (F/MU/C/T). The Starter Set (the box with the dice and the adventure) is the one that will only contain pre-gens and no character creation rules.

Edit
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So it appears then that their envisioned path for new players would be:

Starter Set (pre-gens, learn what the game is about, not how to build a character for the game) -> Basic D&D (take what you know and begin to make it your own) -> PHB (go beyond the basic core into more classes and more options for the core classes) -> DMG (customize the game to make it truly your own, integrate modules that alter the core of the game)

Experienced players would jump in at whatever point on this line they prefer.

[captpike]

the thing they have to avoid however is to take away so much customization that every character who plays a class feels the same.

down that road leads to large numbers of people who play the game in part so they can make and try out new character combo's leaving