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Lord Xaedien
2007-02-21, 05:17 PM
Does practiced manifester increase your bonus power points from ability scores? It seems like it wouldn't, but it simply increases your manifester level for a given class, and bonus power points based on ability scores seem to be based solely on manifester level....

Arbitrarity
2007-02-21, 05:23 PM
"Your key ability score grants you additional power points equal to your key ability modifier your manifester level ׽."

Sounds like it does.

SpiderBrigade
2007-02-21, 06:00 PM
"This feat does not affect your powers per day or powers known." That sounds like not, to me. Although this seems most like a case of bad copy/paste from Practiced Spellcaster, since I'm not sure what the hell they mean by "powers per day." I think "power points" is a fair guess, though.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-02-21, 06:40 PM
I'd assume that should only affect class-based power points per day though.

The reason bonus power points scale with manifester level is because certain elements of many powers don't automatically scale with level the way spells do. The scaling nature of bonus power points is meant to help put things on an even playing field. For example, a 5th level wizard/4th level rogue with Practiced Spellcaster would still get a 9d6 fireball, but a 5th level psion/4th level rogue with Practiced Manifester has to pay extra power points for the same thing. Allowing Practiced Manifester to affect bonus power points is how you'd keep that in balance.

Aerlock
2007-02-21, 06:52 PM
I'd assume that should only affect class-based power points per day though.

The reason bonus power points scale with manifester level is because certain elements of many powers don't automatically scale with level the way spells do. The scaling nature of bonus power points is meant to help put things on an even playing field. For example, a 5th level wizard/4th level rogue with Practiced Spellcaster would still get a 9d6 fireball, but a 5th level psion/4th level rogue with Practiced Manifester has to pay extra power points for the same thing. Allowing Practiced Manifester to affect bonus power points is how you'd keep that in balance.

It doesn't affect power points per day from any source. It behaves just like Practiced Spellcaster. All it does is increase your effective Manifester level when it comes to saves, max pp per power, ability to overcome SR/PR, and the like.

Look at it this way, In the example above your wiz/rogue doesn't get extra spell slots does he? So why does the psion get extra power points? Power points determine how many powers you can use per day for a psion. Spell slots determine how many spells per day you get. for a caster. The Practiced <whatever> feats are just to help multi-classed caster keep up with the damage output, saves, etc of a full caster without granting bonuses to any other class abilities.

Aerlock

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-02-21, 06:57 PM
The Practiced <whatever> feats are just to help multi-classed caster keep up with the damage output, saves, etc of a full caster without granting bonuses to any other class abilities.
If it doesn't grant the bonus power points, the psion can't keep up with the damage output because he doesn't have enough power points to fully augment anything. Fat lotta good that increased manifester level does now.

Arceliar
2007-02-21, 10:54 PM
Well, I for one would argue no. Mostly because the practiced spellcaster feats don't grant additional spells per day.. also partially because manifester levels after 20 don't (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/psionicClassProgressions.htm) grant additional bonus pp/day, so allowing a feat to give extra bonus pp because of manifester level would somewhat contradict that rule once you pass level 20.

EDIT: Don't forget, that increase in manifester level gives you the OPTION of burning all your PP on a couple powers a day. It also increases the range and duration of a lot of powers.

Shhalahr Windrider
2007-02-21, 11:25 PM
Remember, we're talking about the bonus power points from a high ability score, not the class-based power points. There's a reason that though manifester level plays a role in calculation, the calculation for the bonus points is the same regardless of class. Even a class that grants few power points compared to the Psion gets the same number of bonus power points. A 10th-level Divine Mind level with an 18 Wisdom gains 25 bonus power points, just the same as a 10th-level Psion with an 18 Intelligence. This mirrors the fact that a Paladin with an 18 Wisdom will gain a bonus 1st, 2nd, and 4th level spell just like a Wizard with an 18 Intelligence.

As I pointed out, the increase in bonus power points due to manifester level is meant to counter the augmentation cost. To disallow Practiced Manifester from influencing bonus power points does not parallel a Practiced Spellcaster disallowing new spell slots. It would be closer to that if Practiced Manifester said "This increase in caster level does not affect any level-dependent effects of spells prepared in bonus slots gained through high ability scores other than range and duration. For example, if a 5th level wizard/4th level fighteryou prepared fireball in a bonus slot, its range would increase by 160 ft., but it would still only do 5d6 damage."

Please do note that bonus power points from a high ability score increase with manifester level in a fashion such that you can always fully augment the same number of powers*. That is, a 1st-level Psion with a 15 Int gains enough bonus power points for a bonus 1st level power. At 2nd level, he can fully augment two 1st level powers. At third, three, etc.

[hr]* Admittedly, there is a slight hiccup with the concept. Ability scores that grant odd modifiers grant an extra half power point every other level. But the concept remains the same. In effect, a Psion with a 16 Intelligence gains 1 and a half bonus powers. This is what results in the extra powers.