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Mousedigits
2014-06-28, 12:31 AM
So, I was pondering what to play for a game, and was thinking about Warmage. I, then, upon discovering the warmage, was horribly dissapointed. why not just play a Wizard of the Evocation School? Literally, the only reason is for the Armored Mage. So, I set about looking for fixes, and a few caugth my eye, but they all seemed a bit less than what I wanted, very few of them provided any reason to play them over an evocation wizard. And, so, here is my attempt at a worthwhile solution.

Two fixes I have drawn off HEAVILY: Zman's fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?268452-Zman-s-Warmage-Fix(3-5)), and X-code's Fix (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2880.0), and T.G. Oskar (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?131346-Retooling-the-Warmage-(or-how-I-learned-to-stop-whining-and-love-the-blasting)-v2)'s fix. Thank you all!

THE WARMAGE
Skill Points: 2+Int mod (x4 first level)
Class Skills: Concentration, Craft, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Arcana), Knowledge (Geography), Knowledge (History), Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Swim, Tumble, and Use Magic Device.
Hit Die: 1d8


LVL
BAB
FORT
REF
WILL
SPECIAL
0TH
1ST
2ND
3RD
4TH
5TH
6TH
7TH
8TH
9TH


1
0
0
0
2
Armored Mage (Light), Warmage's Edge
5
3










2
1
0
0
3
Combat Casting
6
4










3
2
1
1
3
Advanced Learning, Warmage's Frenzy 1/day
6
5










4
3
1
1
4
Bonus Feat
6
6
3









5
3
1
1
4
Metamagic Prodigy, Energy Substitution,
6
6
4









6
4
2
2
5
Advanced learning
6
6
5
3








7
5
2
2
5
Armored Mage (Medium), Warmage's Frenzy 2/day
6
6
6
4








8
6/1
2
2
6
Improved Warmage's Edge, Improved Warmage's Frenzy, Bonus Feat
6
6
6
5
3







9
6/1
3
3
6
Discrimina ting Spell
6
6
6
6
4







10
7/2
3
3
7
-
6
6
6
6
5
3






11
8/3
3
3
7
Advanced learning, Warmage's Frenzy 3/day
6
6
6
6
6
4






12
9/4
4
4
8
Bonus Feat
6
6
6
6
6
5
3





13
9/4
4
4
8
Dent Resistance, Greater Warmage's Frenzy
6
6
6
6
6
6
4





14
10/5
4
4
9
Extra Projectiles
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3




15
11/6/1
5
5
9
Warmage's Frenzy 4/day
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4




16
12/7/2
5
5
10
Advanced learning
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3



17
12/7/2
5
5
10
-
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4



18
13/8/3
6
6
11
Greater Warmage's Frenzy, Bonus Feat, Metamagic Expert
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
5
3


19
14/9/4
6
6
11
Warmage's Frenzy 5/day
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
4


20
15/10/5
6
6
12
Power Overwhelming
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6
6


Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Warmages are proficient with all simple weapons, one martial weapon of his choice, light armor, and light shields. At 8th level, a warmage gains proficiency with medium armor (see Armored Mage, below).

Spells: A warmage casts arcane spells (the same type of spells available to sorcerers and wizards), which are drawn from the wizard/sorcerer spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time the way a cleric or wizard must. When a warmage gains access to a new level of spells, he automatically knows all wizard spells for that level of the Evocation school. Essentially, his spell list is the same as his spells known list, which is EVERY spell of the Evocation School on the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list. Warmages also have the option of adding to their existing spell list through their advanced learning ability as they increase in level (see below).
To cast a spell, a warmage must have a Charisma score of 10 + the spell's level (Cha 10 for 0-level spells, Cha 11 for 1st-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a warmage's spell is 10 + the spell's level + the warmage's Charisma modifier. Like other spellcasters, a warmage can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table 11: The Warmage. In addition, he receives bonus spells for a high Charisma score (see Table 11, page 8 of the Player's Handbook).
Unlike a cleric or a wizard, a warmage need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level.

Armored Mage: Normally, armor of any type interferes with an arcane spellcaster's gestures, which can cause his spells to fail (if those spells have somatic components). A warmage's limited focus and specialized training, however, allows him to avoid arcane spell failure as long as he sticks to light armor and light shields. This training does not extend to medium or heavier armors, nor to heavy shields. Nor does this ability apply to spells gained from a different spellcasting class.


At 7th level, a warmage learns to use medium armor with no chance of arcane spell failure.

Warmage Edge: A warmage is specialized in dealing damage with his spells. Whenever a warmage casts a spell that deals hit point damage, he adds his Intelligence bonus (if any)+1/2 his Warmage Level to the amount of damage dealt. For instance, if a 4th-level warmage with 17 Intelligence casts magic missile, he deals
1d4+1 points of damage normally, plus an extra 5 points of damage due to his Intelligence bonus. The bonus from the warmage edge special ability applies only to spells that he casts as a warmage, not to those he might have by virtue of levels in another class.


A single spell can never gain this extra damage more than once per casting. For instance, a fireball deals the extra damage to all creatures in the area it affects. However, if a 3rd-level warmage casts magic missile and produces two missiles, only one of them (of the warmage's choice) gains the extra damage, even if both missiles are directed at the same target. If a spell deals damage for more than 1 round, it deals this extra damage in each round.


Scrolls scribed by a warmage do not gain any benefit from warmage edge. Scrolls activated by a warmage also gain no benefit from warmage edge. The same is true for most other magic items, such as wands and potions. However, staffs activated by a warmage use not only the warmage's caster level but also gain the benefits of the warmage edge, if applicable.

Combat Casting: At 2nd level, the Warmage gains Combat Casting as a bonus feat.

Advanced Learning: At 3rd, 6th, 11th, and 16th level, a warmage can add a new spell to his list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be from the Wizard/Sorcerer spell list, and of a level no higher than that of the highest-level spell the warmage already knows. Once a new spell is selected, it is forever added to that warmage's spell list and can be cast just like any other spell on the warmage's list.

Warmage's Frenzy: At 3rd level, once per day, a Warmage can fly into a state of magical destruction. In this Frenzy, the warmage's Charisma and Intelligence raise by +4 points. The Warmage also can cast one extra spell of each level while within this frenzy. These spell slots dissapear if not used by the end of the frenzy. In addition, any spell that does hit point damage that is cast in this frenzy deals an extra 1d8 damage. This applies only once per casting of the spell. For example, a Warmage who casts Magic Missile, and has 2 missiles, would have one do 1d4+1+Warmage's Edge+1d8, While the other would do 1d4+1.

Such a frenzy does come with penalties, however. Firstly, the Warmage takes a -2 to AC and Concentration checks. In addition, after the frenzy has ended, for a number of rounds equal to 2x the number of rounds spent in Frenzy, all spells cast by the Warmage take a -2 to Caster Level.

Bonus Feat: at 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the warmage can select a metamagic feat as a bonus feat. He must meet the prerequisites for said feat.

Metamagic Prodigy: At 5th level, the Warmage reaches a degree of excellence when dealing with metamagic. At the beginning of each day, by spending one hour meditating, the Warmage can select a spell. This spell is cast with its normal casting time when a metamagic feat is applied to them. At 4th level, and every 4 thereafter, he can choose an extra spell.

Energy Substitution: The Warmage can change the energy type of any Evocation spell he casts, to a maximum of 5+his charisma modifier spells/day.

Improved Warlock's Edge: At 8th level, the Warmage finds ways to make his spells do even MORE damage. The damage cap on any spell the Warmage casts is raised by 1/2 his level. Thus, a Warmage would be able to cast a maximum of 10d6 on a shocking grasp, assuming he were 10th level.

Improved Warmage's Frenzy: At 8th level, the bonus to Cha and Int increases to +6, and the Warmage adds 2d8 to his spells. In addition, he can cast 2 extra spells of each level in frenzy.

Discriminating Spell: At 9th level, the Warmage learns to keep his allies safe from his spells. When casting an AoE spell, he can de-select a number of squares equal to he Cha modifier.

Dent Resistance: At 13th level, the Warmage can add his Cha modifier+the level of the spell being cast to checks to overcome spell resistance.

Extra Projectiles: At 14th level, the Warmage can increase the cap of projectiles/rays/whatever by his Cha modifier. He does NOT add his Ch a modifier to the amout he shoots, just adds to the cap.

Greater Warmage's Frenzy: The bonus to Cha and Int from the Warmage's Frenzy increase to +8, and an extra 3d8 added to all spell hit point damage. In addition, he may cast an extra 3 spells per level.

Metamagic Expert: The spell level adjustment for any metamagic the Warmage uses lowers by 2. This applies only once per casting, no matter how many metamagic feats are applied to the spell.

Power Overwhelming: Metamagic does not increase spell level or casting time for any spell cast during Frenzy. For every spell level adjustment, due to metamagic, that he would normally take, he takes 2x the amount in damage. He can choose not to gain the benefits of this ability as he casts the spell. In addition, he gains a second standard action that can be used ONLY to cast an evocation spell.



1.0: Originally posted
1.1: Changed Metamagic Expert, Removed War Magics, Changed Frenzy
1.2: Changed Frenzy, Added Capstone, Minor other changes.

Mousedigits
2014-06-28, 03:31 PM
Visibility post.

nonsi
2014-06-28, 06:33 PM
Kill the "width" table constraint.
It makes the table irritating to the eyes.

Aegis013
2014-07-02, 02:38 AM
I suggest changing Metamagic Expert to the capstone ability.

In many games the Warmage will be rocking 18 Cha base, 4 from levels, and 6 from an item at 16th level giving him 28 for +9. This means he'll reduce all metamagic costs by 3. Free Maximize, Free Empower, Free Widen... with some expenditure of feats, which this rewrite has in spades for a caster, it will be easy to gain free Quicken, Twin, and other typically expensive metamagics.

I think this would be a very fun class to play. Easily Tier 2 in power.

Due to Advanced Learning, it can pick up the unique Sorcerer Spells typically not available to it (as its spells section says "as Wizard"), such as Wings of Cover and Flurry, and Arcane Surge and Greater Arcane Fusion, or Orb spells. This could make it a powerful mailman chassis.


I also suggest rewording Warmage's Frenzy ability - I think it would be reasonable considering the power of the character and the limited uses (and the fact it provides few other benefits compared to Barbarian's Rage) to instead simply have it add 1d8 or so to the total amount of damage dealt by the spell, of the same type of damage as the spell. Provides similar benefit and makes the ability function better with small dice spells. Though I understand you were trying to account for spells that fire multiple projectiles and might encounter Energy Resistance or Hardness or the like, you could simply say that the additional damage from this ability bypasses everything except immunity to that damage type.

Mousedigits
2014-07-03, 12:22 AM
I suggest changing Metamagic Expert to the capstone ability.

In many games the Warmage will be rocking 18 Cha base, 4 from levels, and 6 from an item at 16th level giving him 28 for +9. This means he'll reduce all metamagic costs by 3. Free Maximize, Free Empower, Free Widen... with some expenditure of feats, which this rewrite has in spades for a caster, it will be easy to gain free Quicken, Twin, and other typically expensive metamagics.

I think this would be a very fun class to play. Easily Tier 2 in power.

Due to Advanced Learning, it can pick up the unique Sorcerer Spells typically not available to it (as its spells section says "as Wizard"), such as Wings of Cover and Flurry, and Arcane Surge and Greater Arcane Fusion, or Orb spells. This could make it a powerful mailman chassis.


I also suggest rewording Warmage's Frenzy ability - I think it would be reasonable considering the power of the character and the limited uses (and the fact it provides few other benefits compared to Barbarian's Rage) to instead simply have it add 1d8 or so to the total amount of damage dealt by the spell, of the same type of damage as the spell. Provides similar benefit and makes the ability function better with small dice spells. Though I understand you were trying to account for spells that fire multiple projectiles and might encounter Energy Resistance or Hardness or the like, you could simply say that the additional damage from this ability bypasses everything except immunity to that damage type.

Thanks for the comment!

Yeah, I'm thinking of, instead of 1/3 his cha for the meta-magic expert to 1/4, and I should probably note that it only applies once.

Whoops, the "as wizard" should be "Wizard/Sorcerer." Unless you think that'd be too powerful?

Looking back, I probably should do something like 1d8, maybe advance to 1d10 at some point, for the Warmage's Frenzy. See, I think the Warmage should be, to a Wizard, the same thing as a Barbarian to a Fighter. The fighter is useful for more things, but doesn't do as much damage. Thus, I added a Wizard rage :smallbiggrin:

Guard
2014-07-03, 03:40 AM
Regarding the spell-list, I'm very close to preffering the old one, as it gives you access to the orb of X spell line.

I'd let them have advanced learning without increasing the spell level, but that's just me.

Warmage frenzy is a really awesome mechanic: Well done. It added some feel to the class that was sorely lacking.

That said, the book-keeping of figureing out which bonus spells you get from it can be something of a in play around a table, I think. Personally, I'd find it more elegant if it added to intelligence and charisma, and didn't let them have temporary spells. In addition, it might make sense to come with a penalty to concentration checks, a la the barbarian's AC penalty.

Meta-magic expert is such a nice ability, it almost seems a waste to have it all the way down at level 20... If frenzy had fewer uses per day I might advocate moving it up to a level where it might see play. Still, it is very powerful, and I can see why you'd want to be carefull.


Edit: Also, a warmage can take his first level of frenzied berserker at 9th level without multiclassing. I find this entertaining.

Aegis013
2014-07-03, 02:58 PM
Thanks for the comment!

Yeah, I'm thinking of, instead of 1/3 his cha for the meta-magic expert to 1/4, and I should probably note that it only applies once.

Whoops, the "as wizard" should be "Wizard/Sorcerer." Unless you think that'd be too powerful?

Looking back, I probably should do something like 1d8, maybe advance to 1d10 at some point, for the Warmage's Frenzy. See, I think the Warmage should be, to a Wizard, the same thing as a Barbarian to a Fighter. The fighter is useful for more things, but doesn't do as much damage. Thus, I added a Wizard rage :smallbiggrin:

I think it might be better not to have it based on a fraction of an ability modifier, simply because fractions get weird. While my table rules "always round down", not all tables will, and individuals may not be sure if they get the next one or not at certain points. It might be good to have it instead based on Warmage level. Applying, effectively, Arcane Thesis to all spells (drop 2 levels of adjustment off of any metamagic) is still an insanely awesome ability, and much simpler.

I would also add exemption clauses saying it can not drop the metamagic adjustment below 0, otherwise you've got some stinky cheese built into the class, and doesn't affect Heighten Spell metamagic.



I'd let them have advanced learning without increasing the spell level, but that's just me.

Warmage frenzy is a really awesome mechanic: Well done. It added some feel to the class that was sorely lacking.

That said, the book-keeping of figureing out which bonus spells you get from it can be something of a in play around a table, I think. Personally, I'd find it more elegant if it added to intelligence and charisma, and didn't let them have temporary spells. In addition, it might make sense to come with a penalty to concentration checks, a la the barbarian's AC penalty.

Meta-magic expert is such a nice ability, it almost seems a waste to have it all the way down at level 20... If frenzy had fewer uses per day I might advocate moving it up to a level where it might see play. Still, it is very powerful, and I can see why you'd want to be carefull.


Edit: Also, a warmage can take his first level of frenzied berserker at 9th level without multiclassing. I find this entertaining.

I agree on not changing the level of spell of advanced learning, it would be more sensible to have it function like Extra Spell, where you can't take the highest level of spell instead, since as presently written, it appears that at level 3 I could gain Nerveskitter as an Advanced Learning, but I would be unable to use it until level 4. That's rather bizarre. Personally, I don't think it would be too powerful to just allow an extra spell from another school from the Sor/Wiz list.

Warmage Frenzy is really cool. It might be reasonable, instead of bonus spells, to do something like +4 Charimsa, +4 Intelligence, and spells cast during a Warmage Frenzy don't take longer if affected by metamagic.

Seeing as we've generally compared/referenced Barbarian Rage, I agree some kind of drawback would be good. Perhaps being unable to use Charisma based skills (other than Intimidate) and becoming mentally fatigued after the rage ends and being unable to cast spells for 1 minute, or something. The Cha skill thing is largely to knock out UMD during Frenzy.

I have a suggestion for Ultimate Warmage as well. A 1/d ability that can be used to augment a Warmage Frenzy and during that Frenzy the Warmage gains an extra Standard Action each turn with which he may only cast Evocation spells. Just something to ponder, if you prefer the Meta-magic Expert at earlier levels, where it is more likely to see play and serve as a big draw towards playing the class over say, Sorcerer/Halruaan Elder.

Mousedigits
2014-07-03, 04:15 PM
Hmm, well, I could just do -2 to the Meta-Magic, Min. 0, for Meta-Magic Expert, as that's what a Normal Warmage wold be doing, assuming rounding down.

I guess I could do normal spell level for Advanced Learning. What was going through my head, at the time, was "Wish" and other cheesy spells, but not allowing them to get 9th Level spells is good enough.

As for Frenzy, the thing about just having +4 Cha and Int, and not getting bonus spells is, what benefit does he get? Higher DCs from Cha... Bonuses to Skills.... Nothing else comes to mind. Though, he does get the extra die of damage. I do, however, agree that adding bonus spell slots could be... Confusing. Maybe just add one spell slot to all levels of spells he knows? And drop the +4 Int? As far as a panalty, maybe -2 to concentration and AC, maybe? And, after the Frenzy's over, allspells cast are at -2, maybe -3 CL, for 2x the rounds she spent in Frenzy? That sounds good for me.

For a Capstone, how about just an addition to Frenzy? Any Metamagic applied to a spell does not extend casting time or spell level. If he would normally apply Extra Levels to the spell level, he takes damage equal to 2x the spell levels he would apply. In addition, He gains an extra Standard Action every turn, while in Frenzy, that can be used ONLY to cast an Evocation Spell.

How does this sound to you guys?

Mousedigits
2014-07-04, 10:45 AM
Made some changes, what do you guys think?

Aegis013
2014-07-05, 01:12 AM
It's coming along.

I would look to find a alternate method of determining Metamagic Prodigy. While I'm pretty confident in my ability to handle fractions, I find a lot of people are not. If we made it a function of level (say 1 per 4 levels of Warmage or something) it would be more straight-forward.

If +Cha/Int doesn't work for you, I have an alternative. What if Warmage's Frenzy increased the Warmage's effective caster level for the purposes of determining how much damage his spells deal? He has abilities that raise the caps, so why not really utilize it?

I suggest a new name for the capstone be "Power Overwhelming" (Starcraft shoutout, fun game, even if I'm terrible at it). Or, "Phenomenal Cosmic Power!" itty bitty living space.

Mousedigits
2014-07-06, 01:36 PM
Hm, 1/3 CL sounds right... Or maybe only 1/4.

As for the Frenzy, I like +4 cha, just not Int. I mean, what does he get from that. For the +2 CL, eh. He's already got dice added on. Personally, I kinda like the frenzy where it's at.

Hm, Power Overwhelming sounds nice, actually. Or maybe "Power Devastating," or something...

Guard
2014-07-07, 11:31 AM
The int gives im edge damage, which I'd want more than cha for save DC as a warmage.

Mousedigits
2014-07-07, 01:36 PM
Oh, it does! I thought that was Cha. Do you guys think I should make it Cha or keep it Int?

Aegis013
2014-07-07, 10:47 PM
Having Cha as the primary stat and Int give secondary benefits seems fine. Even in 28 pt buy you can still manage decent numbers in the four stats that the Warmage might be interested in (Cha > Int > Dex > Con > Dump stats).

You can change it if you want, it won't significantly effect the class's overall power.

Mousedigits
2014-07-07, 10:56 PM
Meh, I'll keep it as it is, and make the frenzy give a +4 int, too.

Mousedigits
2014-07-12, 12:14 AM
Just thought of a high-level ability (maybe 17, since it's empty) that would basically allow you to apply Class features, such as Warmage's Edge and Frenzy, to Scrolls and Wands. And maybe even Meta-magic? Also, I'm thinking of reducing the Frenzy's extra dice of damage to 1d6, then 1d10, then 2d8.

Thoughts?

Mousedigits
2014-07-13, 12:37 AM
Alright, I'm actually playing a this fix in a game now, so It's finally getting some playtesting.

Southern Cross
2015-05-30, 03:54 AM
Here is (hopefully) a more readable warmage class table



LevelBase Attack BonusFort
Ref Will Special0th
1st2nd3rd4th5th
6th7th8th9th


10002Armored Mage (Light), Warmage's Edge53

21003Combat Casting64



3 2113
Advanced Learning, Warmage's Frenzy 1/day
65


43114Bonus Feat663



53114
Meta-Magic Prodigy, Energy Substitution,
664


64225Advanced learning66
53


75225
Armored Mage (Medium), Warmage's Frenzy 2/day
6664


86/1226
Improved Warmage's Edge, Improved Warmage's Frenzy, Bonus Feat
66653


96/1336Discriminating Spell6 6664


107/2337-666 653


118/3337
Advanced learning, Warmage's Frenzy 3/day
666664


129/4448Bonus Feat66 66653


139/4448
Dent Resistance, Greater Warmage's Frenzy
6666664


1410/5449Extra Projectiles 66666653


1511/6/1559Warmage's Frenzy 4/day 66666 6 6 6 4


1612/7/25510Advanced learning6 6 6666653


1712/7/25510-666 666664


1813/8/36611
Greater Warmage's Frenzy, Bonus Feat, Meta-Magic Expert66 66666653


1914/9/4 6611Warmage's Frenzy 5/day
6666666664


2015/10/56612Power Overwhelming 6666666666

darkbuu_1
2015-05-31, 12:07 AM
One small thing I found with the class was that Warmage's Edge states that the extra damage is only applied to a single missile, but during Warmage's Frenzy's explanation of its additional damage both missiles are noted as receiving bonus Edge damage.

Mousedigits
2015-05-31, 12:11 AM
Here is (hopefully) a more readable warmage class table


LVLBABFORTREFWILLSPECIAL0TH
1ST2ND3RD4TH5TH6TH7TH
8TH9TH


10002Armored Mage (Light), Warmage's Edge
53

21003Combat Casting64



3 2113Advanced Learning, Warmage's Frenzy 1/day
65


43114Bonus Feat663



53114Meta-Magic Prodigy, Energy Substitution,
664


64225Advanced learning66
53


75225Armored Mage (Medium), Warmage's Frenzy 2/day
6664


86/1226
Improved Warmage's Edge, Improved Warmage's Frenzy, Bonus Feat
66653


96/1336Discriminating Spell66664


107/2337-6666
53


118/3337Advanced learning, Warmage's Frenzy 3/day
666664


129/4448Bonus Feat666
6653


139/4448Dent Resistance, Greater Warmage's Frenzy
6666664


1410/5449Extra Projectiles66
666653


1511/6/1559Warmage's Frenzy 4/day66
666 6 6 6 4


1612/7/25510Advanced learning66 6666653


1712/7/25510-6666
66664


1813/8/36611
Greater Warmage's Frenzy, Bonus Feat, Meta-Magic Expert6666
666653


1914/9/4 6611Warmage's Frenzy 5/day
6666666664


2015/10/56612Power Overwhelming66
66666666




Uhhm, I see no difference, aside from the fact that mine has colors...


One small thing I found with the class was that Warmage's Edge states that the extra damage is only applied to a single missile, but during Warmage's Frenzy's explanation of its additional damage both missiles are noted as receiving bonus Edge damage.

Thanks, fixed.