The Marksman dnd 3.5(my first attempt at a home brew class){revised version 2.0}

[Anbu002]


The Marksman




http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/dmg2_gallery/90082.jpg





The Marksmen


Level
Base attack bonus
Fort Save
Ref save
Will save
Special


1st
+1
+0
+2
+0
Point blank shot, Precise shot,
Ranged precision +1d8 Range 30ft


2nd
+2
+0
+3
+0
Close combat shot, Uncanny dodge


3rd
+3
+1
+3
+1
Steady Aim +1atk
Ranged precision +1d8 Range 40ft


4th
+4
+1
+4
+1
Shot on the Run


5th
+5
+1
+4
+1
Evasion
Ranged precision +2d8 Range 40ft


6th
+6/+1
+2
+5
+2
Steady Aim +2atk and +1dmg


7th
+7/+2
+2
+5
+2
Greater close combat shot(ranged AoO 5ft)
Ranged precision +2d8 Range 50ft


8th
+8/+3
+2
+6
+2
Steady Aim +3atk and +1dmg


9th
+9/+4
+3
+6
+3
Greater Shot on the run
Ranged precision +3d8 Range 50ft


10th
+10/+5
+3
+7
+3
Steady Aim +4atk and +2dmg


11th
+11/+6/+1
+3
+7
+3
Ranged precision +3d8 Range 60ft


12th
+12/+7/+2
+4
+8
+4
Improved evasion
Steady Aim+5atk and +2dmg


13th
+13/+8/+3
+4
+8
+4
Ranged precision +4d8 Range 60ft


14th
+14/+9/+4
+4
+9
+4
Steady Aim +6atk and +3dmg


15th
+15/+10/+5
+5
+9
+5
Ranged precision +4d8 Range 70ft


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1
+5
+10
+5
Hail of arrows(once per encounter)
Steady Aim +7atk and +3dmg


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2
+5
+10
+5
Ranged precision +5d8 Range 70ft


18th
+18/+13/+8/+3
+6
+11
+6
Master Marksman
Steady Aim +8atk and +4dmg


19th
+19/+14/+9/+4
+6
+11
+6
Ranged precision +5d8 Range 80ft


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5
+6
+12
+6
Steady Aim +9atk and +4dmg





Marksmen
Any force on the move, whether it’s an army or an adventuring group, needs someone who can attack from a distance and can maintain foes entertained. Enter the Marksmen, Marksmen specialize in picking out foes and dealing massive damage from a distance.


Adventures: Marksmen adventure for numerous reasons. Many have a role in a military organization. Whether serving as outriders for a large army or as foresters for a small border fort, these Marksmen venture into the wilderness under orders. Although more common than other Marksmen, those attached to the military are unlikely to have the time or permission necessary to undertake regular adventures. Instead, adventuring Marksmen come from rural villages, having honed their skills over a lifetime of wandering the woods or being trained as hunters.
Others have left their military service behind and find themselves attracted to the
adventuring lifestyle. Many adventuring Marksmen begin their careers as guards hired to lead other adventurers through the wilderness or guarding a caravan. Those who find the excitement and challenge of adventuring to their taste then seek out a group of their own.


Characteristics: A Marksman has some training in simple weapons and a unique combat style that favors ranged and devastating attacks. He excels in performing during running battles, which allow him to maximize his special fighting techniques and high movement rate. Although a Marksmen can hold his own in a fight, he’s at his best before combat begins, when he can use his powers of stealth and observation to find an enemy and give her companions accurate information about what they face. The Marksman is a ranged expert, exceeding even the Ranger’ or Scout’s ability to attack and deal damage out of harms way. The Marksman also excels in a dungeon environment. As a Marksmen advances in level, his senses become amazingly acute, and he can eventually exploit weaknesses on most enemies.


Alignment: Marksmen can be of any alignment, and a Marksman’s alignment is often shaped more by his personal background than from any training. The notable exceptions to this are the many Marksmen who receive their training in a military organization—such Marksmen are carefully and rigorously taught, and are almost always lawful in alignment. Outside of military organizations, more Marksmen are neutral than any other alignment, but every alignment and philosophy is represented within the class.


Religion: Marksmen have varied and individual takes on religion, and no single religion stands out as typical of the class. Marksmen occasionally pay homage to deities of Nature or discipline, but these devotions are more a personal choice
on the part of an individual than any outgrowth of their training. Most Marksmen however are not religious preferring to devote themselves to perfecting their art.


Background: Although most wont admit it, a vast majority of Marksmen are failed fighters who for some reason or another failed at becoming proficient in melee combat. Many Marksmen receive military training and serve for a time like scouts as outriders for an army. They perfect their techniques while trying to spot and hide from large groups of foes. The crucible of military service turns out tough, independent Marksmen accustomed to working on their own or in small groups. Such steady individuals make great additions to adventuring parties, and their expertise is often sought by members of other classes. Other Marksmen come from a wide variety of backgrounds. Some train with foresters and rangers serving a rural lord, and others simply grow up among the common folk of the countryside, spending month after month exploring the wild in their leisure time. Marksmen from such diverse backgrounds often take up adventuring to leave their home communities behind. Having exhausted the potential for exploration in their home region, they seek a wider variety of experience and wish to see a broader portion of the world.

Races: Humans make excellent Marksmen. Their adaptable nature allows them to perfect a wider variety of skills than most other races, and they make good use of the Marksmen’s many abilities. Elves and halflings are the most naturally gifted Marksmen; both races have produced nimble Marksmen with amazing abilities of stealth and observation. While halflings have more innate talent for sneaking
than elves do, the greater speed of elf Marksmen gives them advantages of their own. Dwarves and gnomes make respectable underground bowmen, Combined with the dwarf’s knack for operating in areas of earth and stone, Marksmen training can turn dwarves into impressive underground explorers—although most dwarves prefer a more straightforward approach to combat and dislike the ranged fighting style of the Marksmen.


Other Classes: Marksmen work well with members of almost any other class. Skilled and adaptable, they thrive when they can complement a slower and louder group of adventurers or soldiers. Marksmen move ahead of such a group for brief periods, stealthily checking the next room or forest clearing for foes, and then circling back again to ensure that enemies are not sneaking up on the group from behind. When combat is joined, however, the group remains as a stable base to which a bowmen can fall back when pressed. Clerics, wizards, and others willing to cast spells that enhance a Marksmen’s mobility or stealth make her job easier, and are welcome companions in combat as well. Conversely, a Marksmen also welcomes a group made up entirely of stealthy characters such as rogues, rangers, ninjas, and fellow scouts or Marksmen. This group moves much more quietly than a normal adventuring party, and it is seldom surprised.

Role: A Marksman plays several roles in most adventuring groups. First and foremost, a Marksman excels at detecting an enemy or creature before being detected himself. Whether moving well ahead of the group or guarding the rear, a Marksmen is the character most likely to discover a potential threat and be ready to act in combat. Serving as a ranged expert in battle, he provides support for the more straightforward fighters in the group and confuses and distracts the enemy. A Marksman’s stealth ability make him the natural choice for picking and decimating high value targets.







Game Statistics


Marksmen have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Dexterity is the most important for Marksmen who want
to be good archers or who want access to certain Dexterity oriented
Feats. Strength can be important for Marksmen who favor composite bows.
Constitution is important for giving Marksmen lots of hit points, which they need in
their many battles.


Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d8.
Class Skills
The Bowmen’s class skills (and
the key ability for each skill)
Balance (Dex), Craft (Int),Climb (Str),
Bluff.(cha),Handle Animal (Cha),
Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha),Jump (Str),
Knowledge nature (Int),
Knowledge local(Int),
Knowledge geography(Int)
Listen (Wis),Move Silently (Dex),
Ride(Dex), Spot (Wis),Survival (Wis),Swim (Str),
Tumble (Dex)and Use Rope (Dex).
Chapter 4 PHB: Skills for skill
descriptions.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6+ Int
modifier) × 4.
Skill Points at Each Additional
Level: 6+ Int modifier.
Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Marksmen .
Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
A Marksmen is proficient with all simple weapons and all form of bows and crossbows but not exotic ones as well as the quarterstaff,long staff and short sword. Marksmen are proficient in light and medium armor.(if your campaign has advanced weapons a marksman gains proficiency with any type of pistol or rifle equivalent)
Specialized training: Marksmen are trained to be extremely proficient with ranged weapons gaining the Precise shot and Point blank shot feats as a result. Marksmen are also trained to only wear Light to medium armor as any heavier armor interferes with there abilities.
Background(Ex) During character creation a marksman must choose one of two backgrounds gaining the benefits from it.
Military officer:The marksman gains the ability to mark his target to allies with his ranged attack. The marksman's allies gain a +2 circumstantial bonus to hit a target that the marksman has hit in the last two rounds.(allies must be within 30 feat of the enemy for this bonus to apply)
Wildernesses hunter: The marksman gains the Deadeye (http://dndtools.eu/feats/dragon-compendium--109/dead-eye--3345/) feat (ignore all feat requirements, 17 dex must still be met though)
You may add your Dexterity bonus on damage rolls made with ranged weapons for which you have the Weapon Focus (http://dndtools.eu/feats/players-handbook-v35--6/weapon-focus--3105/) feat, so long as the target is within 30 feet or Ranged Precision range.
Steady aim(Ex): Starting at 3rd level the marksman can add +1 to the attack roll to the bolt or arrow he fires. This bonus increases every two levels by 1 after 6th level. Starting at 6th level the marksman also gains the ability to add +1 dmg to his shot, this bonus increases by 1 every 2 levels.
Ranged Precision (Ex): Starting at 1st level as a standard action, a Marksmen may make a single precisely aimed attack with a ranged weapon, dealing an extra 1d8 points of damage if the attack hits. When making a ranged precision attack, a Marksmen must be within 30 feet of his target. An Marksmen’s ranged precision attack only works against living creatures with discernible anatomies. Any creature that is immune to critical hits (including undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures) is not vulnerable to a ranged precision attack, and any item or ability that protects a creature from critical hits (such as armor with the fortification special ability) also protects a creature from the extra damage. Unlike with a rogue’s sneak attack, the Marksmen’s target does not have to be flat-footed or denied its Dexterity bonus, but if it is, the Marksmen’s extra precision damage stacks with sneak attack damage. Treat the Marksmen’s ranged precision attack as a sneak attack in all other ways. The Marksmen’s bonus to damage on ranged precision attacks increases by +1d8 at 5,9,13,17. He also gains increased range at levels 3,7,11,15,19.This ability cannot be used in conjunction with the Manyshot feat.
Close Combat Shot (Ex): At 2nd level, a Marksmen can attack with a ranged weapon while in a threatened square and not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Greater Close Combat Shot(Ex) At 6th level the marksman becomes so used to his weapon of choice that he can make a ranged attack of opportunity within 5ft.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): Starting at 4th level, a marksman can react to danger before his senses would normally allow her to do so. He retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to
AC if immobilized.
Shot on the Run(Ex):You are highly trained in skirmish ranged weapon tactics.When using the attack action with a ranged weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. A marksman gains this feat whether he meets the prerequisites or not.
Greater Shot on the run(ex) : As a full round action with a ranged weapon, you can move before,after, and in between your attacks, provided that the total distance moved is not greater than your half your speed round down.
Evasion (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a Marksman can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If he makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save (such as a red dragon’s fiery breath or a fireball), he instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the Marksman is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless Marksman (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Improved Evasion (Ex): This ability works like evasion, except that while the Marksmen still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks such as a dragon’s breath weapon or a fireball, henceforth he henceforth takes only half damage on a failed save.
A helpless Marksman (such as one who is unconscious or paralyzed) does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.
Hail of Arrows(Ex): As a full round action, once per encounter a marksman of 14th level or higher can fire an arrow at each and every target with ranged precision range, to a maximum of one target per half of marksman levels he has earned. Each attack uses the marksman primary attack bonus, and each enemy may only be targeted by a single arrow.
Master Marksman(ex):Your devotion has paid off, you can now once per encounter double the number of attacks you make in a full round action.

[Epsilon Rose]

In the future, for changes this minor, you might be better off just editing your old thread, since it makes it much easier to keep track of things. That said, on to the review.

Table: In your other other thread, someone showed you how to properly format a table and where to place it. You should follow their suggestion, since it'll make your class easier to read.

Specialized training: Precise shot and Point Blank shots are nice free feats to get.

Your armor restriction doesn't specify what abilities they lose for wearing heavy armor; currently, it implies they lose all class features, which would be ridiculous, but you really don't need it in the first place.

Steady aim(Ex): This is a nice bonus, particularly the to hit portion, now that it works with normal attack patterns.

Ranged Precision (Ex): As it currently stands, a rogue will now do significantly more damage then you on their attack routine, though it's not quite as egregious as it used to be. You might want to try doing some math on the damage values before posting these fixes. If you have trouble doing it manually, Anydice.com (http://anydice.com/program/4164) is a good resource for this sort of thing.

You should either remove or lighten the target restriction, because it heavily limits the type of campaign this character can participate in and makes them far to easy to trivialize, because they don't have much else going for them.

Finally, I find it odd that one of the class's core abilities is keyed to a feat that they don't natively get. You should probably lose weapon focus clause anyways, because it's likely to permanently restrict them to a single type of bow, which is annoying.

Close Combat Shot (Ex) & Improved Close Combat Shot(Ex): Your table and text disagree about when you get these.

Shot on the Run(Ex): Works well with the many shot line, but that doesn't work with your damage boost, so overall this isn't a particularly useful ability.

Hail of Arrows(Ex): Decent, but not overly impressive and the targeting profile doesn't help very much.

Overall Thoughts: This is definitely an improvement over the original version, but it still needs a lot of work. You also have a number of formatting issues, including abilities being listed out of order.

On a tangentially related note, you've given me an idea for a Sniper class with similar goals but completely different mechanics from your marksman class.

[Veklim]

Hrm....it's not bad I guess, but on the whole I could get a better effect from ranger/rogue into Order of the Bow Initiate, and that troubles me a bit. There are few things I would have hoped/expected to see from a marksman which have not raised a hand here...for instance; ranged pinning, ranged disarming, a worthwhile reason to use the sniping rules, some out-of-combat utility (needed for any base class imho) and some form of better movement (including, but not exhaustively, climbing/perching benefits, overland speed increases, difficult terrain use/avoidance, movement from hiding upgrades).

Also, a capstone is rather customary when looking at something so specific as this, and would certainly go some way towards helping out with this guy's flavour and function at higher levels. Your main trouble just now though, is that it's essentially no better than a fighter, and thus sits rather painfully low on the tiers. I know archery is a slightly underwhelming style within the game, and the best I've come up with from published materials is a Fighter/Rogue/Wizard/OotBI/Deepwood Sniper/Arcane Archer (at level 9 I think) who was actually handy in a variety of places, had plenty of utility and was (just about) playable from level 1. I've often looked at archery classes on these boards and felt either horrified or let down, so don't lose faith, because it's a hard role to pin down.

Regardless of the above, congratulations on your first brew, welcome to the club! :smallbiggrin:

[Anbu002]

In the future, for changes this minor, you might be better off just editing your old thread, since it makes it much easier to keep track of things. That said, on to the review.

Table: In your other other thread, someone showed you how to properly format a table and where to place it. You should follow their suggestion, since it'll make your class easier to read.

Specialized training: Precise shot and Point Blank shots are nice free feats to get.

Your armor restriction doesn't specify what abilities they lose for wearing heavy armor; currently, it implies they lose all class features, which would be ridiculous, but you really don't need it in the first place.

Steady aim(Ex): This is a nice bonus, particularly the to hit portion, now that it works with normal attack patterns.

Ranged Precision (Ex): As it currently stands, a rogue will now do significantly more damage then you on their attack routine, though it's not quite as egregious as it used to be. You might want to try doing some math on the damage values before posting these fixes. If you have trouble doing it manually, Anydice.com (http://anydice.com/program/4164) is a good resource for this sort of thing.

You should either remove or lighten the target restriction, because it heavily limits the type of campaign this character can participate in and makes them far to easy to trivialize, because they don't have much else going for them.

Finally, I find it odd that one of the class's core abilities is keyed to a feat that they don't natively get. You should probably lose weapon focus clause anyways, because it's likely to permanently restrict them to a single type of bow, which is annoying.

Close Combat Shot (Ex) & Improved Close Combat Shot(Ex): Your table and text disagree about when you get these.

Shot on the Run(Ex): Works well with the many shot line, but that doesn't work with your damage boost, so overall this isn't a particularly useful ability.

Hail of Arrows(Ex): Decent, but not overly impressive and the targeting profile doesn't help very much.

Overall Thoughts: This is definitely an improvement over the original version, but it still needs a lot of work. You also have a number of formatting issues, including abilities being listed out of order.

On a tangentially related note, you've given me an idea for a Sniper class with similar goals but completely different mechanics from your marksman class.


i looked a it and if u add rapid shot to the marks man its pretty much the same damage but unlike the rouge your target does not need to be flat footed to get precision damage.
http://anydice.com/program/4166

[Dyhmas]

Well, can't properly PEACH right now, so just a few comments, since I love playing bow using classes:

-In my opinion the damage progression is solid. However, I feel like Ranged Precision and Shot on the Run contradicts each other. Perhaps you should focus on one or the other? Even allow the player to choose at first level wether he'd like to be a mobile marksman (like mongol riders...horseless, that is) or an ambushing marksman (a sniper basically). This would allow you to improve both paths while not making the class overpowered.

-You could also find a way to make these two abilities interact somehow, wich would make my previous point null.

-Steady aim is cool and stuff that makes bow users stronger is also cool, however, Full BAB +9 is too much. Either tone down the attack bonus to be the same as the damage bonus or give him medium BAB. HOWEVER, if you remove the damage bonus and increase the the attack bonus to lvl/2 it would be very handy if used alongside a Power Attack-esque feat...basically giving the marksman a pool of extra points to convert to damage without losing accuracy. (this however could make one of the styles more powerfull than the other...since the power attack-esque would apply to all attacks, I think shot on the run would be superior in the end, don't know how to adress that). Perhaps remove the attack and damage bonus altogether and give him a pool of points to convert to bonus of his choosing when aiming (this way he could choose wether he ants more damage, attack, critical range or even increase in the crit multiplier...perhaps add some cool effects like ignring concealment or DR?)

-I get that he is mainly a marksman, but you made him such that he is useless out of combat! Give him some kind of trick shot (breaking locks with arrows? Pushing stuff with arrows?) or Ranger abilites (track, hide in plain sight, all that stuff). As it is, this class can't contribute in any significant way to the party out of combat. Not mandatory, but bad IMO.

Sorry if it was rambly. I really liked your class, just think it needed some more versatile abilities and perhaps a fix to his identity crysis ("Should I move or stand still?").

Will PEACH properly when I get the time.

-Dyhmas

EDIT: Also, where'd you get that image? It is awesome.

[Epsilon Rose]

i looked a it and if u add rapid shot to the marks man its pretty much the same damage but unlike the rouge your target does not need to be flat footed to get precision damage.
http://anydice.com/program/4166

This is true, but it's not very hard to flat foot an enemy and the rogue can pull the same trick with a standard action using many shot.

Edit: Sorry, I meant to say it's not hard to make opponents flanked, which is all a rogue needs. Flat footed isn't too hard (attack before they get to go or from hiding) but it is a bit harder.

[Johnathan_Harke]

Specialized Training: I see a very large problem with this. Imagine someone is playing a 1st level human Marksman. They receive 4 feats at 1st level (1 for first level +1 for being human + Point-Blank Shot + Precise Shot). Most characters have to wait until at least level 3 to get both Point Blank and Precise. Heck, Rangers don't even progress that fast. Rather than automatically giving them 2 incredible feats at 1st level, you may want to consider implementing some sort of "bonus feat" progression - much like that of the ranger.

Other than that, I think the glaring problem with this class is that it was designed purely with combat in mind. The marksman seems to have a decent class skill list (of which some skills I question why a marksman has), but outside of combat, he has no class features to help him. Yes, he's a marksman and can snipe people with his bow, but what else can he do? There isn't much "curb appeal" for this class if he only has abilities that help him kill stuff. Perhaps you should give him abilities that help him perform trips, or grapples, or disarms at range?

Look at the "Scout" class from 3.5 D&D. I think it's very similar in nature in what you're trying to accomplish. Perhaps you will find some inspiration there?

All this being said, good job with your first homebrew class! Keep working on it though.

[Anbu002]

a lot of you have been saying that he is nothing but a combat jokey he has nothing for outside of combat
this is true he was built that way just like a fighter but specialized so no he gets nothing for outside of combat.
this is meant to be a martial class

[Epsilon Rose]

a lot of you have been saying that he is nothing but a combat jokey he has nothing for outside of combat
this is true he was built that way just like a fighter but specialized so no he gets nothing for outside of combat.

I've mentioned this a few times, but the fighter is actually a fairly weak and poorly designed class. You really don't want to be emulating it.

[Johnathan_Harke]

Well to be fank, I wouldn't want to play a combat-junkie, and I think a lot of people would agree with me. D&D isn't a war game - it's a roleplaying game. If you're designing this class specifically for yourself, then congrats - hats off to you. If you're designing this class with the hopes that other people with want to play it, I know I'm certainly one that wants to have a character that is viable both in and out of combat. D&D is supposed to be 70-80% roleplaying and 20-30% combat. You don't want to design something that is going to be utterly useless 80% of the time.

For example, imagine your DM is running a campaigned filled with political intrigue. The marksman can't do squat because he has a handful of social skills and Charisma isn't an important skill for him.

Imagine you're playing a high-fantasy campaign where there's lots of magic. Your marksman knows nothing about magic unless he multiclasses, at which point he may as well have just been that class from the start.

Let's pretend that - Pelor forbid - your GM is having you make a skill check. Woop-de-doo, you're sneaky and have high perception. So are the rogue and the ranger that are also in your party, so you end up succeeding regardless.

All I'm saying is this does not sound like a fun class to play. If all I get to do is kill stuff, how am I useful to the party in any other situation? Not only that, but this is a specifically RANGED character, which means your front-line fighters are going to get all the credit for killing stuff anyway because they're the tanks. From a player perspective, I may as well play a ranger and be able to do awesome stuff in the wilderness like track and speak with animals.

What this class really needs is more versatility.

Here are some things to take into consideration:
*How does the marksman contribute to the success of the party when not in combat? The class skill list is nice, but he needs some class features that provide him with even more flexibility. (There's a reason fighter is considered a "tier 1" class.)
*How does the marksman differ from a Dex fighter that chose the right feats so now he's a boss at bow-fighting? Currently, I fail to see the difference.
*What sets the marksman apart from other classes that are similar to it (namely fighter, ranger, and rogue)?
*What happens when ranged combat is not an option? Surely the marksman does not simply stand idly by...

If I were you, I would scrap the idea of making marksman a class and switch to making it a prestige class for fighters, rangers, rogues, and scouts that want to focus on ranged combat. Otherwise, a person playing this class is going to have a hard time both in and out of combat.

[Anbu002]

thank you jonathan that was a constructive break down
i still like the idea of it being a 20 class so ill make some adjustments and see if that fixes it

[Johnathan_Harke]

Good luck! If you want someone to bounce ideas off of - I'll be around.

[LostDeviljho]

Theres a rulebook out there called "Critical Hits: Torn Asunder". It has some relatively mediocre weapons*that*have better alternatives, and one weapon that's ridiculously good for crits. But the thing that really interested me was the arrows. One arrow in particular had the potential to tear straight through an opponent and keep going, hitting anyone behind it, with the potential to do it again.
giving the Marksman an ability simalar to this might make it interesting, expecially if you extend the ability to inanimate objects like walls or doors. There were also some feats in the same book that might be good as bonus feats for the marksman as well.