D&D Spell Cards

[Chaosvii7]

Probably passed under many radars, but I am an avid fan of Gale Force Nine(GF9) game aids. While I've been camping their website for a month to wait for the new Kleef Kenric miniature to drop, I stumbled upon this yesterday morning.

http://www.gf9-dnd.com/gameAcc/tabid/87/entryid/87/Default.aspx

I personally think this is a long-overdue feature of D&D game aids that was a niche filled by the 3rd party market, but I distinctly remember them making a line of Power Cards for 4e at one point, that, while I've never seen a single unit move from my FLGS, I know they were probably met with some praise regarding the fact that it brought bookkeeping down immensely.

Thought we could have friendly banter about game aids and spell cards and everything, also I figure I'd want everybody to know that these are around for those who have or know somebody who has troubles developing a sense of system mastery.

[akaddk]

Given that it looks like spell-casting monsters won't have succinct spell effect descriptions in their monster entries, this sort of thing will be a boon for DM's. Not sure I'd use them as a player though.

[Chaosvii7]

Given that it looks like spell-casting monsters won't have succinct spell effect descriptions in their monster entries, this sort of thing will be a boon for DM's. Not sure I'd use them as a player though.

Why not, may I ask? I am very curious as to your decision on that matter, as they seem like the ultimate player companion instead of everybody needing a book.

[da_chicken]

Spell cards always seemed like a waste to me. First because I'm going to have my PHB anyways, so it's not saving me space. Second because they're static and won't have the values relevant to my character so they're not really a shortcut. Third, I retain most of what I read, so once I read something 3 times I have effectively memorized it. People at my gaming table don't look up what spells in the PHB do. They ask me. Fourth because cards are incomplete as soon as you buy a new book, get separated easily, and just add to the amount of stuff on the table.

[akaddk]

Why not, may I ask? I am very curious as to your decision on that matter, as they seem like the ultimate player companion instead of everybody needing a book.

A player at my table should know their character's spells and have their own PHB ready to look them up. Cards rarely have full spell descriptions on them and don't have character relevant values on them either. They therefore only serve to create more clutter at the table and more things for a player to look through before making a decision on their character's actions. A player also has time in-between turns to look things up properly anyway.

As a DM, however, being able to pick out the monster spells before play can save time flipping pages. Players flipping pages between turns takes up no-ones time but their own. A DM flipping pages takes up everyone's time.

[Lycoris]

I know quite a few players in my group who would be happy to have something like this on hand, as not everyone in our group is comfortable with spellcasting (still a fairly new group), and it does seem to break the flow of things whenever we've had to reference the PHB. As MTG players primarily, we're also more comfortable for reading and using cards than we would a book. If the price is right, and our group gets into 5th, I'd be interested in investing in them.

Something worth noting that hasn't been brought up yet, is that if the promotional images used match the content of the PHB, then we know exactly how many spells are available for each upcoming class, as well as the names of a few of said spells. It should also be noted that they don't seem to include Cantrips nor Invocations. For reference:

-There are 230 Arcane spells, viable for all Wizards, Sorcerers, and Warlocks (spells shown are Mage Hand, Fireball, Prismatic Spray, Time Stop)
-There are 106 Cleric spells, and they apparently don't share their list as of yet (Resistance, Magic Circle, Create Undead, True Ressurection)
-There are 44 Paladin spells, with spell levels ranging from 1 to 5 (spell shown is Compelled Duel)
-There are 46 Ranger spells, with spell levels ranging from 1 to 5 (spell shown is ???? Arrow, Enchanting Arrow? Deafening Arrow?)
-There are 110 Druid spells, with spell levels ranging from 1 to 9 (Thorn Whip, Enhance Ability, Shapechange, & Regenerate are shown)
-There are 120 Bard spells, with spell levels ranging from 1 to 9 (Vicious Mockery, Mass Suggestion, Fear, Power Word Kill are shown)

Not counting Cantrips, Invocations, Scaling Spells, Bardic Music, and any other spell-like abilities, there are a total of 656 spells (with probably a slight bit of overlap with stuff like Magic Missile and Cure Wounds).

[Person_Man]

A lot of the gamers I grew up with started gaming with Magic the Gathering, and so spell cards are a good idea for them. If you have a 400ish spells to choose from, for some people its a lot easier to "build a deck" of your daily spells instead of searching through a book.

[Chaosvii7]

A player at my table should know their character's spells and have their own PHB ready to look them up. Cards rarely have full spell descriptions on them and don't have character relevant values on them either. They therefore only serve to create more clutter at the table and more things for a player to look through before making a decision on their character's actions. A player also has time in-between turns to look things up properly anyway.

As a DM, however, being able to pick out the monster spells before play can save time flipping pages. Players flipping pages between turns takes up no-ones time but their own. A DM flipping pages takes up everyone's time.

I totally get the problems with reference material and time management, which are things have been addressed to varying degrees over the lifespan of Roleplaying Games. I personally think the cards will help lay out choices to the point where they're simple enough that somebody could, between their turns, read through practical applications of their spells via the cards and perhaps collude with people who are out-of-action for the best strategy with their spell resources. As far as everybody having a PHB, I think that might be a little bit of a high-end expectation, unless you mean that the collective of players has at least one PHB to reference. Obviously the book is the more important treasure as it does have all of that information and more for a considerably lessened cost. Either way, one reference for spells among even as few as two people can make things drag on pretty quickly, so cards can definitely help the flow of information, which is already one of the big roadblocks of combat out of the way.

One thing I do NOT get is why the character dependent variables are a mark against it. Of course the information isn't going to be generalized towards the person buying the deck. All the variables are just that; Variable. The card will tell you if you roll to hit or if they save, as well as using a higher level version of the spell, but not even the PHB automatically updates to tell you how many D6's you should roll when you cast fireball from a 5th level slot - you gotta look at the spell reference, then take the spell slot and DC you're using and do the math and rolls to get it to that point. The difference between the decks and the book is that the decks don't require a $35-50 investment(Depending on how your players get their books) and that they also don't require copious amounts of sharing and frantic page-turning to get the same information that you'd have to do basic arithmetic to solve anyways.

Of course I'm very opinionated and I'm hopefully still coming off as polite, but I think the cards being as generalized as the actual spell description it's using shouldn't give the card negative points. Definitely understand why you'd rather the book for information and game flow in combat, however.

[eastmabl]

For the classes in Basic D&D (cleric and wizards), it could be a way to get access to all of the spells from the PHB without actually having to buy the PHB.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

3.5 D&D: To much like Diablo!

Pathfinder: To much like 3.5!

4e D&D: To much like WoW!

5e D&D: To much like Magic The Gathering!

I can hear the voices of a million nerds crying out... :smalltongue:

Note: I love the idea of spell cards. I would use them.

[obryn]

Oh goodness, spell cards. Flashbacks, but not in a good way.

[pwykersotz]

I'll probably get them for novelty and fun, but they won't add any mechanical advantage to my games. My groups use electronic devices to manage their information. Still, I fully support them being on the market.

Also, my players have asked me to come up with a version of Triple Triad from FF8 to actually be able to play and collect cards (since card proficiency is now a thing). Spell cards might be a fun addition to that game within the game.

[Yuki Akuma]

Also, my players have asked me to come up with a version of Triple Triad from FF8 to actually be able to play and collect cards (since card proficiency is now a thing). Spell cards might be a fun addition to that game within the game.

If you can't work out some sort of game using the class symbols and spell levels on the card backs, I will be disappointed.

[pwykersotz]

If you can't work out some sort of game using the class symbols and spell levels on the card backs, I will be disappointed.

Haha, yeah, me too. It'll be great fun to come up with the specifics though. :smallsmile:

[MadBear]

I'd definitely use these.

While I'm good at memorizing the spells I want to know, it'd be easier to have my prepared spells in front of me, and when the DM needs to know what my spell does I can hand it too him rather then dig through the book. There's been a lot of that (digging through the book) in my PF games recently, and anything to reduce that is hugely appreciated.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I'll probably get them for novelty and fun, but they won't add any mechanical advantage to my games. My groups use electronic devices to manage their information. Still, I fully support them being on the market.

Also, my players have asked me to come up with a version of Triple Triad from FF8 to actually be able to play and collect cards (since card proficiency is now a thing). Spell cards might be a fun addition to that game within the game.

Please put this under the homebrew section or something.

One of my favorite FF mini game.

[RedWarlock]

I can see the advantage, as long as they learn from the mistakes of the 4e power cards.

Make the set non-random and complete, even if it's just a select portion. As long as I know I'm only getting Wizard A-F in this pack, and can still separately buy G-Q and R-Z, I'll be happy.
Don't make exclusive spells that can 'only be found in our packs!' This is NOT a CCG, that kind of collectable need is BS.
Make the text complete, even if it'd be tight. Keywording is fine, but don't do the 3e BS of 'as Fog Cloud, but X', because then I have to go find the Fog Cloud spell.


I used to make cards for myself and my players (and sometimes do, on request) for 3.5 games, including handily the ToB manuevers. I'm still planning to, when I get my edition-level homebrew game going, because they'll need the reference. (It was actually kind of fun, laying them out in OpenOffice Writer, or when I'm active with the Adobe subscription, InDesign, then printing them out, double-sided, on card stock, and using my cutting board. Got the numbers figured out to make them exactly CCG/playing-card size.)

[obryn]

I can see the advantage, as long as they learn from the mistakes of the 4e power cards.

Make the set non-random and complete, even if it's just a select portion. As long as I know I'm only getting Wizard A-F in this pack, and can still separately buy G-Q and R-Z, I'll be happy.
Don't make exclusive spells that can 'only be found in our packs!' This is NOT a CCG, that kind of collectable need is BS.
Make the text complete, even if it'd be tight. Keywording is fine, but don't do the 3e BS of 'as Fog Cloud, but X', because then I have to go find the Fog Cloud spell.

They ... didn't do any of those things with 4e Power Cards? :smallconfused:

The biggest problem (if it can be called that) with 4e power cards was that they were competing with DDI-printed cards. The ones from the Character Builder had complete data personalized for that character, with their actual weapons and bonuses. And they were free-ish, as opposed to $10 or whatever per pack. And DDI had stuff from Dragon & various supplements, which is a big deal, too. In short, the free version was superior in everything but material to the store-bought one.

I eventually moved to power sheets, since I'm oldschool that way.

[da_chicken]

One thing I do NOT get is why the character dependent variables are a mark against it. Of course the information isn't going to be generalized towards the person buying the deck. All the variables are just that; Variable. The card will tell you if you roll to hit or if they save, as well as using a higher level version of the spell, but not even the PHB automatically updates to tell you how many D6's you should roll when you cast fireball from a 5th level slot - you gotta look at the spell reference, then take the spell slot and DC you're using and do the math and rolls to get it to that point. The difference between the decks and the book is that the decks don't require a $35-50 investment(Depending on how your players get their books) and that they also don't require copious amounts of sharing and frantic page-turning to get the same information that you'd have to do basic arithmetic to solve anyways.

Basically, for a play aid to be considered useful enough for me to actually bring to the table, it has to be a complete reference. It has to surpass the PHB and my character sheet, or it's just some third thing to look it. I don't find cards easier to flip through, myself. I mean, by level 5 I'm flipping through 10 cards (more if I'm a Cleric with domain spells) and I would want to have all the spells I could prepare, too. Now I'll want to keep them alphabetized and sorted, etc.

4e did a good job of making power cards be about 95% of what they should be with the character generator -- indeed, it's so good at what it does that I have argued the game is not playable without the character generator (or equivalent). You'd have to either have computer generated or player created power cards or power sheets; the game, IMX, is unplayable otherwise once you get to three source books for a character.

A digital character record like what I assume Project Morningstar will be should be able to do that, too. You should be able to tap Fireball on your tablet and see in the description where it says "targets can attempt a Dexterity save (DC 15) for half" or whatever the appropriate DC is.

Yes, this means that for me a play aid essentially must be computerized (or hand made). I'm not saying that spell cards are bad. I know some people love them. They're just not for me.


Of course I'm very opinionated and I'm hopefully still coming off as polite, but I think the cards being as generalized as the actual spell description it's using shouldn't give the card negative points. Definitely understand why you'd rather the book for information and game flow in combat, however.

You're not rude at all. I'm just providing my reasoning for why I don't like them, not that WotC shouldn't make them or that people shouldn't use them. :smallsmile:

[akaddk]

Yes, this means that for me a play aid essentially must be computerized (or hand made). I'm not saying that spell cards are bad. I know some people love them. They're just not for me.

I ban computers, tablets and phones at the table. Every. Single. Time. I allow them to be used or play in a game where they're allowed, at least one person is on Twitter or Facebook or playing Angry Birds or something. I don't care how convenient an application or program is, devices are a distraction. Even when people are using them appropriately, they're still a distraction that counters the atmosphere and focus on the game.

[Tholomyes]

I ban computers, tablets and phones at the table. Every. Single. Time. I allow them to be used or play in a game where they're allowed, at least one person is on Twitter or Facebook or playing Angry Birds or something. I don't care how convenient an application or program is, devices are a distraction. Even when people are using them appropriately, they're still a distraction that counters the atmosphere and focus on the game. See, for me, that's when I'd choose to have a discussion within the group about why people are checking social media or playing angry birds or what have you, rather than being attentive to the game. I've had most of my games where at least one person uses PDF copies of their character sheet or the rule books, or what have you, so they have a tablet or laptop with them at the game, and I've never seen anyone do anything like that (barring the occasional 5 second checking of email, if there's something important they're waiting on, like for work or what have you).

[da_chicken]

I ban computers, tablets and phones at the table. Every. Single. Time. I allow them to be used or play in a game where they're allowed, at least one person is on Twitter or Facebook or playing Angry Birds or something. I don't care how convenient an application or program is, devices are a distraction. Even when people are using them appropriately, they're still a distraction that counters the atmosphere and focus on the game.

We don't do that. (We can't. We have players with kids and people on call.) However, if you're not paying attention to the game, you get to automatically fail all Spot and Listen checks, go last for initiative, and sometimes might be considered not around for an encounter, XP reward, or treasure distribution. If you're not paying attention to what's going on, the world moves on without you.

[RedWarlock]

They ... didn't do any of those things with 4e Power Cards? :smallconfused:

The biggest problem (if it can be called that) with 4e power cards was that they were competing with DDI-printed cards. The ones from the Character Builder had complete data personalized for that character, with their actual weapons and bonuses. And they were free-ish, as opposed to $10 or whatever per pack. And DDI had stuff from Dragon & various supplements, which is a big deal, too. In short, the free version was superior in everything but material to the store-bought one.

I eventually moved to power sheets, since I'm oldschool that way.

The third one was more of a 3e complaint for spell (and maneuver) descriptions, but the live-product 4e power cards TOTALLY did the second. There were powers that were unique to the power cards and NOT released in a book. I'm pretty sure they didn't release all the basic PHB/X-Power powers in card form, either, though my memory is more spotty there. (I had a player who had a cleric buy the Cleric pack, and it had holes even from single sources.)

[Beleriphon]

Also, my players have asked me to come up with a version of Triple Triad from FF8 to actually be able to play and collect cards (since card proficiency is now a thing). Spell cards might be a fun addition to that game within the game.

You can go with Fallout: New Vegas' card game Caravan. Its even pretty simple and can be played with actual playing cards. Or you can get the offical D&D card game Three Dragon Ante (and its expansion) which is actually pretty fun.

[pwykersotz]

You can go with Fallout: New Vegas' card game Caravan. Its even pretty simple and can be played with actual playing cards. Or you can get the offical D&D card game Three Dragon Ante (and its expansion) which is actually pretty fun.

Neat, thanks for the further ideas! More is always better in this case. :smallsmile:

[obryn]

The third one was more of a 3e complaint for spell (and maneuver) descriptions, but the live-product 4e power cards TOTALLY did the second. There were powers that were unique to the power cards and NOT released in a book. I'm pretty sure they didn't release all the basic PHB/X-Power powers in card form, either, though my memory is more spotty there. (I had a player who had a cleric buy the Cleric pack, and it had holes even from single sources.)
No. I think you're confused; there were some non-randomized PHB Heroes Minis sets which had some power cards in them, but these were put into DDI, too, so they weren't any more exclusive than anything from any book.

There were no unique powers in the power card sets. They were just reprints of the stuff from the PHB and X Power books.

[wolfstone]

I like the idea of Spell reference cards. I was one of the nutjobs who bought all of the 4e power card sets after they discontinued them. They work well for when you don't have enough space on the character sheet to list them all in detail. I'll make sure to pick these up once they become available.

[Knaight]

I ban computers, tablets and phones at the table. Every. Single. Time. I allow them to be used or play in a game where they're allowed, at least one person is on Twitter or Facebook or playing Angry Birds or something. I don't care how convenient an application or program is, devices are a distraction. Even when people are using them appropriately, they're still a distraction that counters the atmosphere and focus on the game.

I generally don't find that this is an issue. I've had one player who was texting all the time, and that's about it. Heck, I use a laptop when GMing certain games I only have .pdfs for (that I don't know well enough to run without reference) - I prefer print, but it's practical. I really wouldn't consider devices an innate distraction - at least, no more than books are.

[AugustNights]

As a player I frequently use spell cards, and as a DM I often suggest them.
Making them myself takes time, but it gives me a physical representation of shuffling spells for the day or the like, something I rather appreciate.

On the subject of technology at the table; as a DM I do not allow anything other than scratch paper, snacks, character sheets, and dice at the table, and as a player if I have anything more than this I become readily distracted. I once had a player ignoring the game so they could play videogames on their computer... I tried to talk to them about it, but they seemed quite content to both be in the game and play another game at the same time. It was upsetting largely to the other players, as that everything inevitably needed to be explained twice, and combat was a drag.

[Chaosvii7]

As a player, I try to severely limit my access to the computer to reference things relevant to the game. Sometimes that also leads me back onto these forums for a few minutes, and I occasionally check a social media outlet, but I'm trying to keep laptop time to about 5 minutes per check. I've got a fairly good attention span, so I can check up on the wording of spells and feats and pay attention to what's going on around me.

Then there's another player who keeps her computer open constantly because she insists on having virtual PDFs for character sheets instead of doing pen and paper. She is almost constantly playing games on it, and her attachment to it is very clearly displayed whenever she's in the store. To be fair she's gotten good enough at it that she can actually multitask with great proficiency, but it's still clear that she's got it open constantly and that her attention is still divided.

Thankfully, I don't think she'll be keen to play in my games because she's a Pathfinder grognard, she actually lost all interest in 5e because in a single playtest she leveled her wizard and was upset that she didn't get anything for it. But that's a preference, and I'm not to hot and bothered by that, it saves me the effort of having to give her a talk should she want to play in my games.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

Cards now available: http://www.flamesofwar.com/gf9online_store.aspx?CategoryID=13327

There's Arcane (Wiz, Sorc & 'Lock), Paladin and Ranger sets so far. Also token set.

More info: http://www.gf9-dnd.com/gameAcc.aspx

[pwykersotz]

Cards now available: http://www.flamesofwar.com/gf9online_store.aspx?CategoryID=13327

There's Arcane (Wiz, Sorc & 'Lock), Paladin and Ranger sets so far. Also token set.

More info: http://www.gf9-dnd.com/gameAcc.aspx

Sweet, thanks for the heads up!