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View Full Version : Creating a new vernacular in your games: Yea or Nay?



Chaosvii7
2014-07-29, 11:14 AM
Here's a question worth discussing; Have you either played in or created/run a setting where certain things like apples and oranges were described OOC as such, but the in-game name for it was different? I was just curious as to what it entails for a setting. Do you think it adds a layer of realism behind the notion that what we know as an apple might be referred to as a Heartfruit by another civilization(be it alien or fantasy)? If you tried it, did you enjoy the implementation from either side(GM or Player)? Do you think it gave the world more realism? If you didn't like it, why not?

Not that I'm considering this myself, but I am curious as to the though process and what it can mean at a table. It seems like an interesting concept, but I don't know if I would have the patience to both create and implement it. It's totally doable for ancient or foreign languages within a world, where it's a little bit based on who and what they encounter, but as for an entire world where nobody knows what an Orange is, but they grow and eat plenty of Ambernuts or what have you, it seems a bit tedious to do so.

Yora
2014-07-29, 12:07 PM
Hell, yeah!

Bring it, berk!

TheCountAlucard
2014-07-29, 12:15 PM
Yeah, I'm definitely for it when and where it's justified. Just as long as it's not too forced. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CallARabbitASmeerp)

valadil
2014-07-29, 12:38 PM
Sounds cool, but I've never seen it done well.

One similar thing I've seen happen a lot is where a modern day object shows up in a fantasy game and the players are tasked with investigating it. You have to pretend not to have knowledge about this every day object while your character is trying to do something to usefully activate it. I find it frustrating because it always kills my suspension of disbelief. I feel like pretending that apples are zanzbachers would just piss me off, unless they didn't come up all that often, in which case what's the point?

Another thing I've seen is lingo. I actually think this is an easier obstacle to overcome, but you need buy-in from your players. I ran a theives guild game once for a party of rogues. One of them actually researched medieval slang and tried to bring it into the game. It was a cool idea, but nobody knew what the hell he was talking about. In retrospect I should have made some of the NPCs get in on it too, which would have made that player seem cool instead of aloof.

Anyway, I'm not trying to kill your idea. I'd love to see it done well. Just make sure there's a purpose and the players are into it.

BWR
2014-07-29, 01:16 PM
I see little reason to randomly rename everyday elements without good reason.
When playing games based in explicitly non-local settings, appropriate non-local words may be used. L5R uses a lot of Japanese (and Japanese-ish) words for things which could easily be referred to by English words, e.g. 'yari' instead of 'spear' or 'bo' instead of '(quarter)staff'.
Likewise if there is some reason the object in question would likely have a different name than what it's called in the language the players usually use. Using words from their own language rather than loan-words. Or if the culture in the game has not been exposed to the object in question and needs to invent a name. Or if it's some way of showing how one culture is different than another (e.g. Charlie Stross' Merchant Princes series has an alternate Earth where nuclear fission weapons are called 'corpuscular weapons' whereas they are 'nukes' in our reality). Or if there is some other good reason, like setting or backstory or plot.

Calling mountains 'purapurgs' just because does nothing for the game except make it harder to play, cause annoyance at pointless changes and show a probable lack of understanding of language and what makes for good storytelling.

Kalmageddon
2014-07-29, 01:41 PM
I think it's fair when there's an in-universe reason for it.
An example of how to do it right is The Elder Scroll: Morrowind. In that game there is a lot of unique vernacular, from insults to words for unique landscape features. It makes sense that there are unique words for it because they are things relevant to the local population, the dark elves, so it's obvious that they have a word to describe something very specific that an outsider might describe using a combination of words.

Cowardly Griffo
2014-07-29, 01:41 PM
Creating alien things within the setting and giving them evocative names adds flavor. Like a weird kind of fruit that's partway between a lemon and an apple taste-wise and it's called an Anglam or whatever. That can be fun, but it's hard to relate to.

Creating new slang for real things is a better way of doing it. Look at Planescape for examples; "put that cutter in the dead book" makes you feel like you're in Sigil, yeah? But everyone in the setting still knows what the word "kill" means.

Changing the language arbitrarily doesn't add anything, I don't think. If you're calling an apple a heartfruit and a dagger a shagger because you're from the Islet of Saint Kyoshi, that pulls you into the game and helps your character feel distinct. If you're calling an apple a heartfruit and a dagger a shagger because that's what was in your orientation packet it's just, ya know, a rule.

Which admittedly is enough for some people. But I personally wouldn't care for it.

Knaight
2014-07-29, 01:47 PM
I've seen it work decently in a few places. Shadowrun had a set of particular slang that was mostly used to avoid profanity up through third edition, and that was generally well liked. Numenera refers to "Synth" as a general category of old synthesized goods that are beyond modern technology, much of which are recognizable polymers or ceramics. So on and so forth.

Aedilred
2014-07-29, 02:02 PM
Yeah, I basically agree with the "not unless it's for an actual reason" approach. Arbitrary renaming of real-world objects is probably just going to be more annoying than anything, and it can be frustrating when authors do it. Inventing your own stuff and giving that a name, yes, having specific names for individual items, yes, having cultural variations on a term to distinguish different dialects, yes... changing perfectly good words just because it's a fantasy world, not so much.

I would perhaps make an exception where you're using real-world archaisms or dialect terms, though. A fairly obvious one, for instance, would be use of "betrothed" rather than "engaged" to describe a couple to be married. Nobody actually says "betrothed" any more, but everyone knows what it means and it helps to set the scene. Likewise, depending on where you are and therefore what you call them in the first place, you might want to mix up "beet, rutabaga, swede, turnip, mangelwurzel" (although I've never met anyone outside the West Country who can hear "mangelwurzel" without laughing).

That sort of thing you can get away with because it adds verisimilitude without reducing comprehension (hopefully). But if you start calling turnips "undergnarls" then it's just something else for the players to remember and get confused by.

Thinker
2014-07-29, 02:48 PM
I think it is good when it is used to describe a nuance in your fantasy world that is different from what is normally expected. For example, if your world has dragons that are attached to specific feudal houses, act as idols for worship, and imbue powers on to specific individuals from those houses, it is a good idea to call them something different like wyrms. This is especially true if your setting also has more traditional dragons that breath fire and have princesses sacrificed to them. It is also a nice way to add slang to your world to make it feel more alive: revolvers are called six-guns, a dungeon is called a vault, etc. A similar use would be to come up with official-sounding phrases like a dial-home-device or DHD for short.

Just don't let your setting-unique terminology completely override everything. If heartfruit is a common word for an apple, don't make NPC's make a big deal about players calling it an apple instead. Presumably, no one in your setting actually speaks English so everything we say is a translation of some sort and it should be expected that the character used the appropriate phrases.

nedz
2014-07-29, 04:52 PM
Having a character use slang is fine - it adds to the flavour. Renaming household objects is a bit pointless and will become tiresome. If you want to add new words - add some new thing for them to refer to.

veti
2014-07-29, 05:07 PM
Another thing I've seen is lingo. I actually think this is an easier obstacle to overcome, but you need buy-in from your players. I ran a theives guild game once for a party of rogues. One of them actually researched medieval slang and tried to bring it into the game. It was a cool idea, but nobody knew what the hell he was talking about. In retrospect I should have made some of the NPCs get in on it too, which would have made that player seem cool instead of aloof.

I agree it's hard to do well, but if you do want to do it, by far the best way is to base it on historical slang of some period. The Planescape 'cant' is based on 18th/19th century British (mostly Cockney) dialect, and I think that's why it feels authentic - the words are much less random than they first appear, there really is a logic behind it somewhere, even if not one user in a hundred could tell you what it is.

On the other hand, even that can go wrong. Given how many people can't even get "thou/thee" right, I wouldn't have much confidence trying anything more complicated than a simple word-substitution slang.

JusticeZero
2014-07-29, 07:01 PM
I find it easier to make things that actually are different, but still fill the same role, and give it a different name.
For example, potatoes are round tubers that grow well and are starchy that are a food staple. Cassava is also a starchy tuber that serves a similar purpose, though you have to wash the cyanide out of Cassava. (Google that, it's real.)
If your default tuber food is like Cassava, its obviously not potatoes, nor is it a potato if it's a red root tuber that resembles a carrot but, once peeled, is used for the same things you would use a potato for.
Also, good to come up with a little bit of food tradition. For example, one campaign region I ran was known for papermaking. They had a vegetable that was corn like, but had some fibrous properties that made it hard to eat, so people would pulp it, cook it down, make papery sheets out of it, then wrap food (that used lots of lentils) in it. Lentils plus corn or rice is filling. Another area tended to cook everything in clay pots for hours. Go read a slow cooker cookbook. You don't have to make things very alien, just check out some food traditions off of the beaten path - Africa or South America or whatever - and reskin the staples.

Guizonde
2014-07-29, 07:12 PM
there are two kinds of reasons that my players and i use, and both stem from the extreme post-post-apocalyptic world we are building together: the first one is slang, as slang helps create the universe as well as exposition (for instance, "dude" is "deej" in this universe. it builds flavor). the other one is because we are a band of punsters, and rats have evolved to fill every single niche in this universe. a big dog is called a "rat-weiler", etc...

it's not necessary, but it gets funny as hell real fast.

a stimpack is not just a healing syringe, but can actually boost a player's speed, health, strength... exactly what a stimulant-pack would do. a nail gun is a magnetic pistol shooting nails. it really helps if the players actually participate in creating the new vernacular. in this game, a vibroblade used to be called an auto-blade. now, it's either "vibro" or "cutter". same thing, but the players found it more adequate.
that said, a plasma cannon is still a plasma cannon. its slang term is "aww, crap!"

WarKitty
2014-07-29, 11:16 PM
I've also found that if differences are desired, phrases or descriptive-sounding words can be better than simply making new names. So call a potato "earth fruit" rather than inventing a new word. It'll just be easier to remember.

I think how well it works depends on a number of things. It's best when you have one language that just about everyone speaks. Otherwise you get issues when you're assuming some sort of translation everywhere, and it gets weird.

valadil
2014-07-30, 09:18 AM
On the other hand, even that can go wrong. Given how many people can't even get "thou/thee" right, I wouldn't have much confidence trying anything more complicated than a simple word-substitution slang.

One thing I've seen the players pick up without too much trouble is casual racism. Derogatory terms for various game races don't take too much mental energy to pick up and the players usually have fun using overt racism in a world where it's socially acceptable. It's one of those things I let them run with but put little effort into encouraging myself.