Belkar getting the last laugh.

[Professor Tanhauser]

I was thinking that belkar could get the last laugh on hinjo after the battle by telling him that he plans to spend the year in prison writing a book about his adventure with the order, including every detail of the snarl, the gates, etc.

Hinjo gasps and says "But you can't do that! It's forbidden to mention those things uder AC law!"

Belkar: "Screw you, LG boy. I'm NOT a citizen of your city and I'm NOT bound by it's laws. Once I'm done with your stinking sentence I'm leaving and can do what I damn well please, including writing a best seller about my adventures, complete with the truth about shojo, the snarl, the gates and how hypocritical you AC paladins are."

Hinjo: "er, um, suppose I rescinded the year, in light of your service on the battlefield?"

B: "Keep supposing, lawdog."

H: "and, ah, I suppose I could remove the MoJ as well,"

B:" I could always get a high wizard to do that for me."

H: "Suppose I could add in some treausre, enough to keep you in ale and whores for the rest of your life."

B: "Almost there, sonny, just one more thing."
H: "What?"
B: "Miko's sword. And I want her to see you give it to me. Man, what a trophy that'll make."
H: "You are truly evil, vile dwarf, but to keep the secret of the gates safe I accede to your demands."
B: "I may be evil, but at least I'm not a pompous, self righteous, sanctimonious hypocrite."

[That Lanky Bugger]

Hell, Durkon can remove the Mark of Justice. It's just a matter of convincing him to do so (and beating the Caster Level Check).

[Lizard Lord]

Belkar is a halfing not a dwarf.

[Balathustrius]

Wouldn't it be sort of unlawful for Hinjo to try to appease Belkar like that? Easier to just lock him up forever, anyway. (Though that wouldn't be terribly lawful, either, I suppose)

[Emperor Demonking]

I would totally love it if that happened, but how could he get Miko as the sword giving area at the right time. Sadly I don't think Belkar has the stats for that or possibly the paper or ink.

[BisectedBrioche]

I would totally love it if that happened, but how could he get Miko as the sword giving area at the right time. Sadly I don't think Belkar has the stats for that or possibly the paper or ink.

But Hinjo doesn't know that....

[Caractacus]

I really don't get that bit about:

"Screw you, LG boy. I'm NOT a citizen of your city and I'm NOT bound by it's [sic] laws."

He may not be a citizen, but what does that have to do with it? He has to obey the laws while inside the kingdom. He can be as chaotic as he likes, but he IS bound by the laws; he just doesn't feel that he has to obey them. If he writes the book, they can confiscate it.

If he swears that he will write it again when he leaves, they are within their rights to use some sort of magic to wipe his knowledge of the Snarl and Shojo's doings (but not anything else, as that would be an invasion of privacy under real-world laws, and one supposes that there should be an equivalent for the Oots world.

[Copacetic]

Wouldn't it be sort of unlawful for Hinjo to try to appease Belkar like that? Easier to just lock him up forever, anyway. (Though that wouldn't be terribly lawful, either, I suppose)

That's why Shojo was choatic. And mabye Hinjo now too......

[skyclad]

That's why Shojo was choatic. And mabye Hinjo now too......

Shojo wasnt a paladin, hinjo is.

[Rahdjan]

you go to Thailand and break the law, they aren't going to say "damn, if only he were a citizen, we could punish him.".


And this is coming from a pretty fanatic Belkar fan.



P.S. wouldn't taking that level of Barbarian have made him illiterate?

[happyturtle]

I can't see Belkar writing a book. But I love the idea of him somehow being in a position to demand (and get) Miko's sword.:belkar:

[nonsens]

P.S. wouldn't taking that level of Barbarian have made him illiterate?

you are only illetarate as a barbarian if you start as a barbarian and you don't multiclass and if you don't spend any skill points on buying your litaracy

[Luvlein]

Hinjo is anything but a pompous, self righteous, sanctimonious hypocrite.

[MReav]

Alternate:

Hinjo: Or, we could get the Royal Wizards to do a series of Modify Memories.

[Emperor Demonking]

Alternate:

Hinjo: Or, we could get the Royal Wizards to do a series of Modify Memories.

Then after its done.

:belkar: Hinjo beige realy suits you.

[MReav]

Then after its done.

:belkar: Hinjo beige realy suits you.

How so? Belkar just threatened to extort him, and given his Chaotic Evil attitude, what's Hinjo's guarantee that Belkar wouldn't do it anyways? Furthermore, it's not like he had Belkar lobotomized.

[BisectedBrioche]

How so? Belkar just threatened to extort him, and given his Chaotic Evil attitude, what's Hinjo's guarantee that Belkar wouldn't do it anyways? Furthermore, it's not like he had Belkar lobotomized.

And furthermore, how would Belkar be aware of having his memories removed?

[MReav]

And furthermore, how would Belkar be aware of having his memories removed?

He wouldn't. The implication is that this caused Hinjo to Fall, and Belkar has no idea why.

[Tilian]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif : So would you like _____ extra years for blackmail with that order?

:belkar: : Wha- Aw damn it!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif : We'll keep in touch.

[MReav]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif : So would you like _____ extra years for blackmail with that order?

:belkar: : Wha- Aw damn it!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif : We'll keep in touch.

Even better.

[Querzis]

you are only illetarate as a barbarian if you start as a barbarian and you don't multiclass and if you don't spend any skill points on buying your litaracy

Yeah thats the stupid thing about it, I can have an illetarate level 8 barbarian but if I just take one level in fighter then I automatically learn how to read...

Why do adventurers know how to read anyway? They are not noble and except wizard they dont need to know how to read! You can come from a little village where there is no book but since you are a bard you can read? How is that supposed to make sense?

[slayerx]

Well, putting aside things such as the use of memory charms to wipe out Belkar's memory...

There is one thing many poeple over look...
Who the hell would believe such a story coming from Belkar?
Anyone who takes even the slightest look into Belkar's background will find out that he is Choatic Evil (history of murder, imprisionment and so forth)...
A story about the world being a massive padlock to lock up a sinister god-killing monster and that there is bascially a massive conspiracy to keep the world from knowing this, is all a little farfetched ESPECIALLY when coming from a random mostly unknown Choatic Evil halfling... not to mention that the snarl isn't mentioned in any of the relgions which is bound to raise even more questions on the value of it's truth

When asked about it, Hinjo, the lawful good ruler of Azure City, with a history of standing for justice, won't nessasarily deny such things, but will just remind poeple what kind of character Belkar is...
Essencially, it becomes Belkar's word agaisnt Hinjo's, and all things considered, Belkar will just be written off as a lier and his book a work of fiction (Though if he had enough skills in writing, it could be QUITE a good book)

As for possible backup from Roy and the rest of the OoST... well, Roy knows now the full dangers that the gates might have, and that it would be a VERY BAD idea to let any evil villian know about it. And though he may think the paladin oath for the gate is stupid, he would probabaly agree that there should be a certain amount of secrecy about the gates... No oath's of 100% secrecy and non-interference, but more of a "need to Know" kind of basis...
He could easily convince the rest of the OoST to back him up on this, and thus, Belkar is left on his own... his word, versus the words of a kind and lawful leader


Belkar: "Screw you, LG boy. I'm NOT a citizen of your city and I'm NOT bound by it's laws. Once I'm done with your stinking sentence I'm leaving and can do what I damn well please, including writing a best seller about my adventures, complete with the truth about shojo, the snarl, the gates and how hypocritical you AC paladins are."

Hinjo: "Belkar... you are a random unknown halfling ranger/barbarian with a history of murder and imprisionment, with a reason to hate Azure City... I am a lawful good ruler of a city that has had atleast the past 50 years of prosperty, and personally have a history of loyally defending justice a serving under the 12 gods... When the poeple asked who is telling the turth, who do you think the poeple will believe?"

Belkar: "............. damn it!"

[Professor Tanhauser]

But people would know xykon attacked AC, and belkar's story would have that as evidence, plus letting the world know about the jewlel in the throne would be something they wouldn't like.

So it looks likem they'd have to drop the year, pay belkar ahush money and give him miko's sword.

BTW, they have to take the MoJ off unless roy plans on spending the year within a mile of AC anyway. Once it's gone, it's the wrath of belkar time.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Well, putting aside things such as the use of memory charms to wipe out Belkar's memory...

There is one thing many poeple over look...
Who the hell would believe such a story coming from Belkar?
Anyone who takes even the slightest look into Belkar's background will find out that he is Choatic Evil (history of murder, imprisionment and so forth)...
A story about the world being a massive padlock to lock up a sinister god-killing monster and that there is bascially a massive conspiracy to keep the world from knowing this, is all a little farfetched ESPECIALLY when coming from a random mostly unknown Choatic Evil halfling... not to mention that the snarl isn't mentioned in any of the relgions which is bound to raise even more questions on the value of it's truth

When asked about it, Hinjo, the lawful good ruler of Azure City, with a history of standing for justice, won't nessasarily deny such things, but will just remind poeple what kind of character Belkar is...
Essencially, it becomes Belkar's word agaisnt Hinjo's, and all things considered, Belkar will just be written off as a lier and his book a work of fiction (Though if he had enough skills in writing, it could be QUITE a good book)

As for possible backup from Roy and the rest of the OoST... well, Roy knows now the full dangers that the gates might have, and that it would be a VERY BAD idea to let any evil villian know about it. And though he may think the paladin oath for the gate is stupid, he would probabaly agree that there should be a certain amount of secrecy about the gates... No oath's of 100% secrecy and non-interference, but more of a "need to Know" kind of basis...
He could easily convince the rest of the OoST to back him up on this, and thus, Belkar is left on his own... his word, versus the words of a kind and lawful leader



Hinjo: "Belkar... you are a random unknown halfling ranger/barbarian with a history of murder and imprisionment, with a reason to hate Azure City... I am a lawful good ruler of a city that has had atleast the past 50 years of prosperty, and personally have a history of loyally defending justice a serving under the 12 gods... When the poeple asked who is telling the turth, who do you think the poeple will believe?"

Belkar: "............. damn it!"

No, it's Belkar: "Well, I just had a high level mage cast a truth spell on me, lawboy, and according to it I'm telling the truth. WOuld you care to deny my statements with a truth spell cast on you?"

[MReav]

BTW, they have to take the MoJ off unless roy plans on spending the year within a mile of AC anyway. Once it's gone, it's the wrath of belkar time.

Not if they throw him in the AM cell. Then the MoJ is nullified, but precautions will be taken because they know he's a dangerous psychopath.

As for the second:


No, it's Belkar: "Well, I just had a high level mage cast a truth spell on me, lawboy, and according to it I'm telling the truth. WOuld you care to deny my statements with a truth spell cast on you?"

Hinjo: Well then, because you are threatening to reveal state secrets, I hereby place you under arrest as a spy. GUARDS!

[tanonev]

Other possibilities:

Hinjo: You know, with half of the prison tower converted into temporary shelter for the people displaced by Xykon's siege weapons, we're going to need to double up the occupants of the cells for the next few weeks/months. By the way, did I mention that Miko doesn't have a cellmate yet?

or, much simpler:

Hinjo: SMITE EVIL!

Not to mention the fact that every single paladin in the Sapphire Guard took that oath to keep the existence of the gates a secret. Hinjo could just round up enough of them, ask Belkar to repeat what he just told Hinjo, and see what happens...

[MReav]

Also:

Hinjo: Well then, I guess you haven't learned your lesson. We're adding extortion and threatening to reveal state secrets to your list of crimes. If found guilty, you'll rot in a dungeon for the rest of your life, and I might add, we won't even bother putting you in the AM dungeons because of that Mark.

[Renegade Paladin]

I was thinking that belkar could get the last laugh on hinjo after the battle by telling him that he plans to spend the year in prison writing a book about his adventure with the order, including every detail of the snarl, the gates, etc.

Hinjo gasps and says "But you can't do that! It's forbidden to mention those things uder AC law!"

Belkar: "Screw you, LG boy. I'm NOT a citizen of your city and I'm NOT bound by it's laws. Once I'm done with your stinking sentence I'm leaving and can do what I damn well please, including writing a best seller about my adventures, complete with the truth about shojo, the snarl, the gates and how hypocritical you AC paladins are."

Hinjo: "er, um, suppose I rescinded the year, in light of your service on the battlefield?"

B: "Keep supposing, lawdog."

H: "and, ah, I suppose I could remove the MoJ as well,"

B:" I could always get a high wizard to do that for me."

H: "Suppose I could add in some treausre, enough to keep you in ale and whores for the rest of your life."

B: "Almost there, sonny, just one more thing."
H: "What?"
B: "Miko's sword. And I want her to see you give it to me. Man, what a trophy that'll make."
H: "You are truly evil, vile dwarf, but to keep the secret of the gates safe I accede to your demands."
B: "I may be evil, but at least I'm not a pompous, self righteous, sanctimonious hypocrite."
Better response: A couple lines into that, Hinjo has the bastard's head chopped off.

[slayerx]

No, it's Belkar: "Well, I just had a high level mage cast a truth spell on me, lawboy, and according to it I'm telling the truth. WOuld you care to deny my statements with a truth spell cast on you?"
Like i said, Hinjo doesn't need to lie, just work his way around the question
Needing to keep such things as the gate secret, Hinjo should know of such things to avoid blabbing

Hinjo: "well, truth is only what one believes is the truth... if you truly believe a lie then you can never lie, even under a truth spell... Given his history as one who takes joy in murder is it so surprising that he would suffer from paranoid delusions such tall sounding tales? This is why some cities, such as cliffport do not except such magic as evidence since it can be easily manipulated. I am also insulted that you would have such little faith in the ruler of a city that has seen peace for so many years under the 12 gods."

Press guy 1 talking to press guy 2: "Should we do it, i mean, if the story is true this will be huge"
Press guy 2: "And yet, if we're wrong we will be the laughing stocks of the news world and probably loose are jobs for believing such a tall tale from a psycotic murder and accusing a lawful good ruler AND THE GODS of conspircay"
Press guy 1: "ouch, not to mention the churches would be all over us... church people can be very scary if you make them crazy, like saying their gods have been lying to them"
Press guy 2: "ya not sure... i mean this is a lawful good ruler of a peaceful city with no signs of anything bad in his past, that just makes things even slimmer... it's not like he's those stuck up nobles we write about every other day who are caught doing this of that"

Ofcourse this is assuming poeple believe Belkar in the first place, which considering the story he is telling and his own character, is not likely to happen... they'll just say he's a liar and just say his claims of being under a spell of truth


oh, wait... just came up with a alternate begining
Hinjo: "well first... Belkar did you write that book with the soul reason to spite Azure City and myself for imprisioning you for a crime you plead guilty too?"
Belkar still under truth spell: "Yes... but i-"
Hinjo: "with such an obvious agenda agianst azure city, i see no reason why you should believe a single word of what comes out of the mouth of this pyscotic halfling; espeically when you consider that magic is not 100% full proof and that their are ways to manipulate it."


But people would know xykon attacked AC, and belkar's story would have that as evidence
Lots of fictional stories contain real world events... just because they center themselves around real world events doesn't make them true

[Roderick_BR]

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif : So would you like _____ extra years for blackmail with that order?

:belkar: : Wha- Aw damn it!

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif : We'll keep in touch.
Exactly what I was going to say :smallamused:
Not forgetting that trying to say anything about the gnarl is against their sacred laws, no matter if Belkar is a citizen or not.

[Suraht]

"Azure City law clearly stipulates that telling anyone this secret is a criminal offense. You didn't think a Lawful Good government automatically meant free speech, did you?" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0272.html)

The act of telling anyone the secret is, in and of itself, illegal, so any books that Belkar could write about the whole ordeal would probably be confiscated, and then Belkar's sentence would be extended. Then we tack on a few extra years for extortion of a high official. After all, protection of that secret is part of the Sapphire Guard's oath...in fact, it makes up most, if not all of it. If Belkar threatens to spill the beans, every paladin in Azure City would do everything within their power to make sure it doesn't happen.

Then, since he hasn't learned his lesson like Hinjo thought he did, the MoJ stays in place, and he gets thrown in a anti-magic cell that shields him from the effects of the MoJ so Roy and Co. can leave the area(which would serve as extra deterrent from escape, since if he left the cell, the MoJ would activate due to Roy's non-proximity).

[Professor Tanhauser]

So hinjo knows that the order an dbelkar were dragged to AC against their will under false (illegal) pretenses, then solves the problem by either murdering belkar or imprisoning him for life instead of mkaing things right, even if it means appeasing belkar.

Gee, looks like miko won't be alone in fallsville for long.

[tanonev]

"Illegal" pretenses? What law was broken?

In any case, no matter what action Hinjo takes, someone is going to claim that said action was "evil" and "fall-worthy." No matter, though; it looks like in the OotS world, the gods (certainly not the readers) are the ones with the final say on such matters, especially concerning Fallsville; and guess who has a vested interest in the security of the gates?

[MReav]

So hinjo knows that the order an dbelkar were dragged to AC against their will under false (illegal) pretenses, then solves the problem by either murdering belkar or imprisoning him for life instead of mkaing things right, even if it means appeasing belkar.

Gee, looks like miko won't be alone in fallsville for long.

In your scenario, Belkar tried to extort Hinjo by threatening to reveal state secrets that threaten Azure City and the nature of Reality. At that point, he became an enemy of the state (and Reality). Hinjo is now obligated to deal with him as such, regardless of the initial circumstances, because Hinjo wasn't responsible for the initial circumstances, and the guy who was was acting outside the laws himself.

If he would have just went to the lawyers and filed a suit against AC for illegally dragging him there, a properly slimy lawyer might have gotten him his wealth-by-level appropriate award (though this is not a guarantee, because the individual who was responsible was himself abusing the laws behind everyone else's back, and an equally slimy lawyer could counter with that).

So essentially, in your scenario, critically failed his intimidation check by trying to introduce measures that gave Hinjo the right to lock him away forever. Remember, two wrongs don't make a right, and Hinjo wasn't the cause of the first wrong.

[Jade_Tarem]

It's notoriously hard to intimidate the paladin ruler of a powerful nation. Equally hard to blackmail one.

:belkar:: "I'll tell everyone the secret of the gate if you don't revoke the senance and give me treasure. Shojo told me and the Order of the Stick everything before he died!"

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif: "Then you didn't pay close enough attention. Remember how I've taken this oath to protect the secret no matter what? How that duty is first and foremost?"

:belkar:: "Aw, crap..."

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif: "I hope you like prison slop. But don't worry, Miko is really falling for you. I'm sure she'll get a kick out of the fact that you'll be sharing a cell."

:belkar:::smalleek:

[Felius]

It's notoriously hard to intimidate the paladin ruler of a powerful nation. Equally hard to blackmail one.

:belkar:: "I'll tell everyone the secret of the gate if you don't revoke the senance and give me treasure. Shojo told me and the Order of the Stick everything before he died!"

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif: "Then you didn't pay close enough attention. Remember how I've taken this oath to protect the secret no matter what? How that duty is first and foremost?"

:belkar:: "Aw, crap..."

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a311/estelindis/hinjo.gif: "I hope you like prison slop. But don't worry, Miko is really falling for you. I'm sure she'll get a kick out of the fact that you'll be sharing a cell."

:belkar:::smalleek:

*Points to avatar*
But to the point: Agreed!

[Professor Tanhauser]

If all else fails belkar can escape again, grab and force an AC wizard to take the MoJ off, gut hinjo like a trout and escape AC after leaving hinjo's head, entrails and 'junk' hanging from the highest tower in the city with a bloody "BELKAR WAS HERE!" written beneath them.

How's that for a disturbing image?

[Callos_DeTerran]

So hinjo knows that the order an dbelkar were dragged to AC against their will under false (illegal) pretenses, then solves the problem by either murdering belkar or imprisoning him for life instead of mkaing things right, even if it means appeasing belkar.

Gee, looks like miko won't be alone in fallsville for long.

It wouldn't be making things right. Not imprisoning Belkar would be fallsworthy. And bargaining with him to get the halfling to keep quiet would definitly be fallsworthy. DEFINITLY when its fine for paladins to simply smite evil ANY evil creature they come across just because their evil and have nothing bad happen to them. If anything, Hinjo is being generous by even offering to lower the sentence and endangers his own paladinhood by letting a psycotic evil halfing off easy.

[tanonev]

If all else fails belkar can escape again, grab and force an AC wizard to take the MoJ off, gut hinjo like a trout and escape AC after leaving hinjo's head, entrails and 'junk' hanging from the highest tower in the city with a bloody "BELKAR WAS HERE!" written beneath them.

How's that for a disturbing image?

It's certainly in keeping with Belkar's character, but I'm pretty sure Roy remembers that Belkar owes Hinjo his life (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html), and Roy and Hinjo seem to be on decent terms. (At the very least, I doubt Roy would be happy about Hinjo's death.) Translation: If Belkar pulls something like that, his chances of rejoining OotS are not very good. In fact, Roy might end up taking Belkar out himself, and even if he doesn't, V might do something drastic...

[Suraht]

If all else fails belkar can escape again, grab and force an AC wizard to take the MoJ off, gut hinjo like a trout and escape AC after leaving hinjo's head, entrails and 'junk' hanging from the highest tower in the city with a bloody "BELKAR WAS HERE!" written beneath them.

How's that for a disturbing image?

He could try to force a wizard to remove the MoJ, but if the wizard is high enough level to remove the mark, then there's a good chance he's also powerful enough to disintegrate Belkar without breaking a sweat.

Even if he isn't powerful enough to do it in straight combat, he could do it when he pretends to give in to Belkar's demands. "Ok, ok...you win, Mr. Psycho Halfling. Just sit still a second so I can prepare the counterspell....ok, now close your eyes, this spell creates some bright lights and I don't want to burn your corneas out. Ok, are you ready? DISINTEGRATE! Hmmm...how about that. It does look like the dragon's ash."

All this could have been avoided if Belkar would have kept his cool and bided his time back when he was first imprisoned, too. It wouldn't have been like the Belkar we know and love/loathe, but he wouldn't have all these consequences to deal with. True, he was held against his will. Also true that it was under false pretense, but Belkar had no knowledge that any falsehoods took place when he killed the guard...a guard, I might add, that was actually being as friendly as he could be under the circumstances. If you want to blame someone outside of Belkar for the guard's death, Miko is a far better target than Shojo...after all, she ordered Belkar to be held in solitary, in the non-Antimagic cells, and that allowed his ring to still work, which allowed him to escape. If she'd just thrown him in with the rest of the Order, then it's likely he would have just simply gone to trial with the rest and been acquitted with them.


So hinjo knows that the order an dbelkar were dragged to AC against their will under false (illegal) pretenses, then solves the problem by either murdering belkar or imprisoning him for life instead of mkaing things right, even if it means appeasing belkar.

Gee, looks like miko won't be alone in fallsville for long.

Hinjo knows that OotS was brought to AC under false pretense by Shojo, I agree. However, false pretenses and good intentions of the late ruler aside, it by no means gave Belkar free reign to murder a guard, desecrate the guard's body for the purpose of goading Miko into a fight, and then engaging Miko in combat. Take that out of the equation, and Belkar would be as free as the rest of the OotS is right now.

Hinjo is trying to fix the problem of OotS being dragged to AC, but he has to treat the whole murdering the guard thing seperately, as they are two seperate entities. Belkar's imprisonment isn't meant as a fix to anything except for the killing of the guard. If he turns a blind eye to the murder just to make up for Belkar being imprisoned wrongly, that should put him at a greater risk of falling than if he makes Belkar endure some form of punishment, especially seeing as how Belkar hasn't really had anything done to him yet. The MoJ doesn't fall under the standard guidelines for punishment according to the AC lawbooks, so Hinjo can't really count that(especially since that was part of an elaborate scheme to allow Belkar to stay out of jail, and thus not a punishment, but instead a deterrent), and he hasn't served any jail time for the murder yet.

[MReav]

If all else fails belkar can escape again, grab and force an AC wizard to take the MoJ off, gut hinjo like a trout and escape AC after leaving hinjo's head, entrails and 'junk' hanging from the highest tower in the city with a bloody "BELKAR WAS HERE!" written beneath them.

How's that for a disturbing image?

How exactly is he going to force the wizard to do anything without the ability to deal lethal damage? (And as stated, any wizard powerful enough to remove the MoJ is likely powerful enough to turn Belkar into a smoldering pile of ash)

[slayerx]

How exactly is he going to force the wizard to do anything without the ability to deal lethal damage? (And as stated, any wizard powerful enough to remove the MoJ is likely powerful enough to turn Belkar into a smoldering pile of ash)

Well, the question here is if the wizard KNOWS Belkar can't do lethal damage... idol threats can also work, if Belkar gets the jump on the guy

However, i think a better point is that if Belkar still has the MoJ on, and Roy leaves Azure City, then that would mean that the moment Belkar leaves the anti-magic cell, the MoJ will activate and he will grow too weak to continue his escape... which ofcourse means he will be unable threaten anyone to remove the MoJ and will never get near anyone like Durkon who would help him without first getting caught and dragged back.

[Porthos]

Sigh.

... But we do know that Soon sent his men and women on a crusade to wipe out all who would threaten the Azure City gate, no matter how removed geographically.

In the process, they purged all mention of the gates and rifts from libraries. It was if the events of the previous few years had never happened. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)

Now:
Belkar is Evil.
Belkar is threatening to spread knowledge of the existence of the gates.
Belkar is, by extension, threatening Azure City itself.
Did I mention, BTW, that Belkar is Evil?
Belkar has a (in many, many jurisdictions) Massive Criminal Record.
Threatening the stability of the gates is a Capital Crime in Azure City, no matter where you may be at the time.
The Sapphire Guild is committed to destroying any and all records of the gates.
Oh yeah, did I mention that Belkar is Evil, with a very long criminal history?

So I think Belkar would have his head handed to him, literally in this case, if he tried this tactic. After all, none of the Paladins who did this systematic purge of the world Fell, so why would Hinjo? Hinjo summons a Star Chamber of Paladins, and one very speedy trial later, Belkar is quite dead. After all, Belkar is little better than the person who was a member of the Holey Brotherhood (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0276.html) who got whacked. And if he could die over the gates, I suspect that Gods wouldn't care if Belkar was made to be Permanently Indisposed if he tried to blackmail Hinjo over the gates. :smallamused:

[Green Bean]

Well, the question here is if the wizard KNOWS Belkar can't do lethal damage... idol threats can also work, if Belkar gets the jump on the guy

I don't think any wizard powerful enough to break the curse would be unable to recognize exactly what spell exactly he was breaking.

[slayerx]

I don't think any wizard powerful enough to break the curse would be unable to recognize exactly what spell exactly he was breaking.

Oh, no your right that the wizard will know he was breaking a "Mark of Justice" spell, however, the MoJ spell can vary with it's conditions... While the Wizard knows it's a MoJ, i don't think there's a way for him to know offhand that the exact conditions of a particular MoJ, particularly the part that prevents Belkar from dealing lethal damage... if asked, Belkar can just say it prevents him from exiting the city or something like that...

From the point of view of the wizard, it would actually be a little risky to jump to the conclusion that the MoJ would prevent Belkar from doing lethal damage; i mean, he knows that if he is wrong and tries to call Belkar's bluff, he could easily wind up dead

[MReav]

Any wizard that can break the curse has enough wealth by character level to splurge on boots of Teleport.

[Professor Tanhauser]

How exactly is he going to force the wizard to do anything without the ability to deal lethal damage? (And as stated, any wizard powerful enough to remove the MoJ is likely powerful enough to turn Belkar into a smoldering pile of ash)
Simple. Hold a knife to a wizard's throat and tells him he's sick of the MoJ and is going to get rid of it or die, and since he's not worried about dying he can slit the wizard's throat without fear. Oh, he'll also keep the knife to the wizard's throat while he removes the MoJ and if he suspects a trick, SLIT!

Belkar is sneaky enough to sneak up on a wizard and fast enough to get a knife to his throat, no sweat. He's also got the guts to risk his life to escape being pushed around.

[MReav]

Simple. Hold a knife to a wizard's throat and tells him he's sick of the MoJ and is going to get rid of it or die, and since he's not worried about dying he can slit the wizard's throat without fear. Oh, he'll also keep the knife to the wizard's throat while he removes the MoJ and if he suspects a trick, SLIT!

Belkar is sneaky enough to sneak up on a wizard and fast enough to get a knife to his throat, no sweat. He's also got the guts to risk his life to escape being pushed around.

Unfortunately for Belkar, a wizard that high level can take the the D3+strength+Favoured Enemy Bonus.

[Ampersand]

Quick question: Why are we assuming that getting the Mark of Justice removed or Belkar being thrown into an anti-magic cell so it doesn't activate is an integral part of his incarceration? :smallamused: I mean, it's not like it'd kill him...

[Professor Tanhauser]

Hey, if the walls and such in the antimagic cells are made to nullify magic, all belkar needs to do is clip a piece off the wall, strap it to his forehead over the damned MoJ ans then escape, with the wall fragment keeping the MoJ dormant.

Hinjo's alone in his chambers when a voice comes out of the shadows.

"Oooooh hinjooooo! It's me, Bellllkaaar. I'd like to discuss some issues with you."

"Guards! Guards! The halfling's escaped and is somewhere in my chambers! Where are you?"

"Here." (Severed head with x's over the eyes rolls into view.

[Ampersand]

Anti-magic is usually a standing, intangible field and not bound to physical objects. That said, I don't know how Azure City made their field permanent.

In all likelihood, though, any piece of a wall light enough for Belkar to carry wouldn't be powerful enough to nullify the Mark of Justice

[MReav]

Hey, if the walls and such in the antimagic cells are made to nullify magic, all belkar needs to do is clip a piece off the wall, strap it to his forehead over the damned MoJ ans then escape, with the wall fragment keeping the MoJ dormant.

There are two big flaws with that argument:

1. That's assuming that whatever makes the cells AM don't need a continuous influx of power.

2. That assumes that Belkar can reach his own forehead.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Anti-magic is usually a standing, intangible field and not bound to physical objects. That said, I don't know how Azure City made their field permanent.

In all likelihood, though, any piece of a wall light enough for Belkar to carry wouldn't be powerful enough to nullify the Mark of Justice

Well, if it were in direct contact with the mark, like strapped to his forehead, it might be enough to surpress it. Also since it's meant to be a permanent, fixed effect the spell might be cast on the material of the cells, or perhaps made into the material of the cells themselves.

In Warhammer fantasy, an obsidian chamber can absorb and contain magic by dint of the material itself. I wonder if D&D has anything like that.

[happyturtle]

2. That assumes that Belkar can reach his own forehead.


*snort* *snicker* http://www.thesmilies.com/smilies/happy0007.gif (http://www.thesmilies.com)

Thanks, that just totally tickled my funnybone! :smallbiggrin:

[Luvlein]

Hinjo's alone in his chambers when a voice comes out of the shadows.

"Oooooh hinjooooo! It's me, Bellllkaaar. I'd like to discuss some issues with you."

"Guards! Guards! The halfling's escaped and is somewhere in my chambers! Where are you?"

"Here." (Severed head with x's over the eyes rolls into view.
Are you implying that Belkar will attempt to remove the mark of justice by severing his own head?
Why yes, he probably is that retarded.

[Forum Staff]

There is already a thread regarding Belkar's treatment by Hinjo and the circumstances regarding it (and what, if anything, he should do about it) here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36280), started by the same person. This thread therefore violates the "One Topic, One Thread" rule and is being locked. Please continue your discussions on the other thread.