Mythos Homebrew Discussion II: Where Simplicity Goes to Die

[Kymme]

Mythos Classes:

The Mythos classes are homebrew classes created by Xefas that use Mythos, abilities that describe the stories that the classes tell and are told about them. The classes are about around Tier 2 in terms of power and are intended to represent truly mythical characters who are far more powerful than the mundane citizens of the story that takes place around them. They are intended to be extremely high powered and fit in with the other Tier 1-2 classes for a high power game.

The links for them can be found below accompanied with a brief synopsis.

The Olethrofex (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16517470) - A class based around death, necromancy, oblivion and undeath. A class obsessed about every form that death takes and bringing destruction to everything.
The Teramach (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=286983) A rage-filled beast that is angry at everything in the universe. It's rage allows it to perform impossible feats of great power.
The Kathodos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=15947087) A class that is linked inextricably to the natural world and the elements that make up the world. For them the world is their plaything to be shaped as necessary.
The Bellator (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?336731-quot-Today-is-victory-over-yourself-Tomorrow-is-your-victory-over-lesser-men-quot) - A class based around being the ultimate of fighting perfection. They are the warrior of old stories, and rivals to wizards and dragons alike.

Useful Resources:


Template for making custom Mythos banners courtesy of Greaserfish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16732984&postcount=51)
(click the spoiler marked Aethenos Roster, there will be another spoiler that contains the downloadable template).


Guidelines for creating Mythos classes, gathered by Nanoblack (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17828883&postcount=1276)


The Random Mythos document, featuring Mythos created for existing classes made by Yours Truly and many others. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JytQWWNQupmupzInjBwJaOIfGYG_ewbDpJgbkwkIyGU/edit)


The Mythos Compendium. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?335295-Mythos-Compendium)


And some of the Mythos classes currently in the making by Xefas himself. (http://imgur.com/a/EPekI)


A Quote by Xefas concerning the way he writes Mythos. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16722320&postcount=21)


Yet another Quote from Xefas, this time concerning the mechanics of Mythos. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16733848&postcount=8)


And finally, the prior incarnation of this thread, in all its glory. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?323694-Mythos-Inspired-Homebrew-Discussion)

Now, let's go make some LEGENDS.

[Primal Fury]

Might as well kick off the new thread with more new stuff that will never get finished. Who wants the Mythic Soul Manipulator? :smallbiggrin:


http://i.imgur.com/WDEkWc0.png

[Kymme]

I enjoy how the entire bottom row are anime characters. :smalltongue:

Does this banner come with a name?

[Primal Fury]

I enjoy how the entire bottom row are anime characters. :smalltongue:
Such characters are rampant in Japan, though surprisingly few (iconic) women fit this trope.


Does this banner come with a name?
Not yet. Whenever a character like this pops up, there are so many different names for what they are and do: Ninjutsu and Chakra, Reitsu, Ki, etcetera. It's hard to find a good name that unifies them. The fluff, however, paints the Positive Energy Plane as a construct of the Lawgivers that is intrinsic to the functioning of the universe, much like the Omphalos. Its true name is the Well of Souls.

[Tacitus]

Reposting a Mythos I need some help tinkering with.


Alright, so doing more work on the Occasus, tinkering with a Mythos and a name, perhaps not made for each other, but we'll see.

Stitching Together The World
Exceptional or Fantastic
Prerequisite: Pragmatic Surgeon Method (Exceptional) or Black and White Chiurgery (Fantastic)

If this Mythos is selected as an Exceptional Mythos as part of the Mythos gained by advancing in levels it may be taken as their first Fantastic Mythos to expand the benefits while also granting a new Exceptional Mythos in its place. In such a case this Mythos would not gain an additional manifestation, though the Exceptional Mythos would.
Alternately, if you do not wish to make such an exchange or if this Mythos was purchased with Mythos Points it can be upgraded by paying the difference between the cost of an Exceptional and Fantastic Mythos.

With your incredible experience in taking apart both friend and foe alike you have also developed techniques to stitch them back together, even if their physical bodies are not truly connected. If taken as an Exceptional Mythos you may literally bind two or more living creatures together so that they quickly become more akin to a single creature in many regards. When performing this Procedure on any number of targets this Mythos becomes [Manic] for as long as any subject that has taken part in your experiments from this Mythos still lives. When performing the Procedure you may decide if the creatures involved are connected directly or by means of an umbilical tether that may be up to 25ft plus five feet per two Anthol levels (ie, close range) that may not be changed once the Procedure has been completed. However, if taken as a Fantastic Mythos the creatures involved no longer need to be tied together by physical means as you stitch together their essence and bind their pitiful stories together, though you may elect to gain a point of Mania to connect them physically as well if you so desire.

By performing a Procedure that takes five minutes minus one minute per level beyond first (minimum 1 standard action) you may join up to your Wisdom modifier (before any changes from Mania) in creatures together. Creatures so joined may split any healing effects between them, even if one target would not receive any benefit from the effect by means of not having taken any damage or not having a condition to cure.

If creatures have been bound physically by a tether rather than being stitched directly to another creature the umbilical has a number of hit points equal to one half the lowest number of maximum hit points of every creature connected by the umbilical with no hardness or damage reduction. This umbilical does not impede movement for the stitched creatures unless any individual attempts to move beyond the range set by the Occasus from any other creature they are stitched to. Despite being a mass of flesh laying about the umbilical does not impede movement for other creatures and takes no damage from passive environmental hazards unless the Stitched creatures are unconscious or willing for such harm as they are assumed to be keeping it safe and/or taking the damage in their own HP pools. (ie, cold weather damages the creatures, not their tether, but unwilling creatures could stick their umbilical in fire to break it.) In addition, area of effect spells do not affect the umbilical directly, unless a Stitched creature dies, in which case his portion decays.

If a Stitched creature dies, they must make one final saving throw at the time of their death. Fortitude if Stitched physically and Will if Stitched metaphysically. Any creature Ststiched to them may take two points of Constitution Burn to grant a +5 to this save. Upon a failed save all creatures Stitched to them take one damage per HD of the slain creature and lose 10xp per HD of the slain creature. [NOTE: Maybe damage for physical, XP for metaphysical? Need input here]

Basic:
???: You are always considered to be part of any and all of your Stitches if you are within range, so long as the total creatures you are stitched to does not exceed your Class Level+Mania+Wis. You do not take any penalties for entering or leaving a Stitch.
???: Any umbilicals you create have their hit points instead set to one quarter your own and gain a hardness equal to your wisdom mod plus your Mania at the time of creation (including the 1 mania you may gain from this Mythos).

Advanced:
Stitches in the Moon: Any creatures bound by an umbilical have their range extended up to medium range that grows with the level of the Occasus, resonating with his growing tale. Furthermore, when the Occasus gains Legendary Mythos the Range extends to Long, and out to Miles when he gains Exalted Mythos.
Any creatures who have had their souls stiched together increase their range out to Long immediately, out to Miles upon the Occasus gaining Legendary Mythos, and any range (even across planar boundaries) upon the Occasus gaining Exalted Mythos.
???: Creatures connected in any means have their minds joined as well, granting them telepathy with one another at the range of their connection. As they only have telepathy with one another, Mindsight would only detect Stitched creatures to which they are connected unless they obtain telepathy from another source.

Its not nearly done yet, but I wanted to throw it out there and see what sort of a reaction it got. Some inspiration from Vitalist/Worldthought Medic, some body horror, all mad rambling from a fever.
Also, either a manifestation or later mythos for unwilling participants and essentially a sadist lifeleech soulthief vitalist. XD

[Primal Fury]

I'm thinking of something like... Phemeruah. It's a variation of an Arabic phrase meaning "spirit vessel;" how's that?

EDIT: Or maybe Phemerah. That extra syllable makes it sound weird. Thoughts?

[Kymme]

Reposting a Mythos I need some help tinkering with.

I love this lots. But you know, I just really like the concept of a healer being viable in combat. This is pretty cool, but I think you need to specify something with ranges. Primarily, when you say 'Miles', how many miles are we talking aboot here? Like, one mile per level, or something more?

Also, healing algorithims. I'm such a nerd that I even made a table as to how much healing Vitalists can churn out. If you want, I can show it to ya.


I'm thinking of something like... Phemeruah. It's a variation of an Arabic phrase meaning "spirit vessel;" how's that?

I like that name. Also, the talk of souls reminds me a bit of another character...

Have you, by chance, heard of Forever Horse, of Bravest Warriors fame?

[Primal Fury]

Have you, by chance, heard of Forever Horse, of Bravest Warriors fame?
Wait... you mean the... that fights the... oooooh. Move over Ichigo. You have been replaced.

[Tacitus]

Meant to be Miles per level, but I might make it Miles per level plus Mania at time of Stitching. I see ranges and immediately think [range]/level and just skipped over specifying. XD It bugs me a little that I don't have the wiggle room to go from Miles to Any on Same Plane to just plain Any, but that'd require scaling off of class level than Mythos grades, and I don't want to. >.>
Do you think physically stitching people together (ala pidgeon-rat (http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Pigeon-Rat) or via horror tentacle) is even worth doing or too cumbersome? I imagine it mostly for things that won't be going anywhere anyway such as creatures turned into walls, towers, or fortresses, but is it too restrictive if someone really wants to perform mad acts of helpful body horror on their allies from first level?

And I am also a huge fan of a healer being a viable combat role instead of calling that box of wands a healer. I don't think I've ever made a full table, but my longest running Worldthought Medic (aka Vitalist before it was cool) has a list of healing/pp in the notes on his sheet. So like a half assed table maybe? XD

[Sgt. Cookie]

I'm reposting this here, because it was originally posted at the arse end of the last thread. And I wanted to give them better fluff.

http://i.imgur.com/Ny3uU7Y.png



The Episkeptis

In the Great Wheel, there beings of beyond the scope of mortal kind; powerful and mighty by simple virtue of being. Champions of virtue, waging war eternal on the damned to rid creation of their taint. Vile horrors, committing atrocities and genocide for nor greater reason than, they can. But there are other beings with more... esoteric goals; guardians of order, agents of anarchy and others who stand between.

But the stories of their actions, their forms and even their powers are just that. Stories. Tales for campfires and novels. Creations of fantasy, as much as fiction. They hold only as much power as mortal word allows them to have, which was insubstantial as language itself. Role models of highest virtue, hated enemies of vile nature and those who stand at the sidelines. And such would have been their fate, had it not been that some Stories can live.

And so it is with the Episkeptis. Theirs is not the story of a mighty warrior or rampaging beast, but that of an author and storyteller. They do not simply state a story as being, but bring it to life. They call forth those stories, fusing them with their own Living Narrative to give a form, a function, an ability to act to once unliving tales crafted by men, by gods and by history.

As it is with any ordinary storyteller, the content, moral and meaning of a story can change, so too can the Episkeptis make the stories their own, with embellishments, additions and outright alterations. In this way, no story is ever quite what it first was. With powers, strengths and weaknesses that they did not possess before, the Episkeptis creates soldiers, guardians and beasts with their only goal being that which the Episkeptis says it is.

An Episkeptis is a Summoner. Plain and simple. If you're getting into the fray yourself, you've done something wrong. That's not to say you're totally useless, you can defend yourself if need be, but you really shouldn't need to. Even at low levels you have someone else around to do the fighting for you.

Abilities: The most important ability for an Episkeptis is Charisma. Intelligence and Wisdom are secondary. Constitution is nice to have, as always, but your physical attributes are peripheral. At BEST.

Alignment: The Episkeptis are as diverse as the things they summon, therefore they can be of any alignment.

Starting Gold: As Wizard

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 6 + Intelligence Modifier
Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (All, taken individually), Listen, Move Silently, Perform (Oratory only) Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
Proficiencies: Episkeptis are proficient with all Simple weapons, one Martial Weapon, light armour and light shields.



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Mythos
Excellencies


1st
+0
+2
+2
+2
The Storyteller's Mythos, Mythos Known, Exceptional Mythos, Embellished Excellence, Ever Vigilant Guardian, Telling of the Tale I, Stories of Heroes and Villains
+1
+1


2nd
+1
+3
+3
+3

+0
+1


3rd
+2
+3
+3
+3
Telling of the Tale II
+1
+0


4th
+3
+4
+4
+4

+0
+1


5th
+3
+4
+4
+4

+1
+0


6th
+4
+5
+5
+5
Telling of the Tale III
+0
+1


7th
+5
+5
+5
+5
Fantastic Mythos
+1
+1


8th
+6/1
+6
+6
+6

+0
+1


9th
+6/1
+6
+6
+6
Telling of the Tale IV
+1
+0


10th
+7/2
+7
+7
+7

+0
+1


11th
+8/3
+7
+7
+7

+1
+0


12th
+9/4
+8
+8
+8
Telling of the Tale V
+0
+1


13th
+9/4
+8
+8
+8
Legendary Mythos
+1
+1


14th
+10/5
+9
+9
+9

+0
+1


15th
+11/6/1
+9
+9
+9
Telling of the Tale VI
+1
+0


16th
+12/7/2
+10
+10
+10

+0
+1


17th
+12/7/2
+10
+10
+10

+1
+0


18th
+13/8/3
+11
+11
+11
Telling of the Tale VII
+0
+1


19th
+14/9/4
+11
+11
+11
Exalted Mythos
+1
+1


20th
+15/10/5
+12
+12
+12

+1
+1



The Storyteller's Mythos: An Episkeptis' power is expressed in terms of one or more "Mythos", the building blocks of the legend they are, and the stories that they have told and will tell. While any given Mythos differs from the rest, they share some similar traits. They are always Supernatural abilities (Except that they function normally in Anti-magic or Dead magic zones, as well as any similar effects, as if they were Extraordinary abilities), except when stated, and when they reference a difficulty class that saving throw is always calculated as (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier, unless otherwise stated). When a Mythos a "level" that is not clearly defined in some other way, such as "character level", it refers to "class level" as in the number of levels one has in the Episkeptis class. When a Mythos references "allies", it specifically does not refer to the Episkeptis using it. When a Mythos grants a feat as a bonus feat, it is regardless of whether the character meets the prerequisites for that feat (unless otherwise stated), and if the character already possesses that feat (in some permanent fashion - via the normal allotment gained by leveling up, or through another Mythos, and so on, but not those gained temporarily, such as via a "Heroics" spell), they must replace the prior instance of that feat with another feat that they qualify for.


Every Mythos has a Tier. The Tier of a Mythos ranges from 1 to 4, typically referred to as Exceptional, Fantastic, Legendary, and Exalted. Exceptional Mythos are the stories of Knights and Monsters and Beasts. Beings that, while mighty, have been told a thousand times with a thousand faces. Fantastic Mythos are the stories of benevolent angels and vile demons, angry witches and contented healers. Beings of awesome might and exceptional power who often form grand allies and powerful adversaries. Legendary Mythos tell of Demonic rulers, primal forces and ancient, mighty monsters. Beings who's mere existence can alter the course of a tale. Exalted Mythos tell of ancient gods and forgotten powers, greatness beyond imagining and might beyond stopping.

Some Mythos, in addition to their initial stated effect, have Basic and Advanced manifestations. When an Episkeptis gains access to a Mythos with a list of Basic manifestations, they may choose one such manifestation, and they gain that benefit immediately as well. This choice may not be changed later. When an Episkeptis gains access to a Mythos with a list of Advanced manifestations, they may choose one such manifestation, and they gain that benefit upon achieving their next level of Episkeptis. This choice may be changed at any point before receiving the chosen manifestation itself, but not after (choosing beforehand is just an easy way to mark it down on your character sheet so you don't forget that you'll be getting something later).

Mythos Known: A 1st level Episkeptis begins play with one Exceptional Mythos that he qualifies for, if this is his first level in a PC class. At higher levels he gains additional Mythos as noted on the Episkeptis table.

For character that multiclass into Episkeptis after having taken levels in another PC character class, the 1st level of Episkeptis grants no Mythos, rather than one.

An Episkeptis also has the ability to learn more Mythos, above the ones automatically allotted to him by leveling up by perfecting his ability to summon and control. At any time, an Episkeptis may expend funding by writing, telling and publishing tales, but gaining no financial benefit in return. You may not simply writing a book and giving it to a person, but rather you write and tell tales to as many people as you can. The cost of spreading such tales is recouped as a number of Mythos Points equal to the Gold Piece value spent.

By spending 1,000 Mythos Points, and 250xp, he may learn an Exceptional Mythos. A Fantastic Mythos requires 5,000 Mythos Points and 500xp. A Legendary Mythos takes 10,000 Mythos Points, and 1,000xp. And an Exalted Mythos takes 20,000 Mythos Points and 2,000xp.

Learning Mythos above the standard amount requires astounding, nearly single-minded devotion to the story of the Episkeptis. An Episkeptis may only utilize this ability while more than half of his effective character level (ECL) is devoted to levels in the Episkeptis class.

Embellished Excellence: As denoted on their class table, an Episkeptis gains a certain number of abilities known as "Excellencies". These tend to be more general, generic, and passive than a Mythos, but are useful nonetheless, and are drawn from their own separate list, unsegregated by Tiers. Like a Mythos, a Episkeptis may learn more Excellencies above their allotted amount. Each one costs 1,000 Mythos Points and 100xp, plus an additional 1,000 Mythos Points and 100xp for each time a new Excellency is innovated beyond the first. (So, 2,000mp and 200xp for the second, 3,000mp and 300xp for the third, etc.)

Ever Vigilant Guardian: You gain the "Ever Vigilant Guardian" Exceptional Mythos automatically. If you already possess this Mythos via some permanent means (Such as via the Mythborn template or the Broken Storyteller Amalgam feat) you get any other Episkeptis Exceptional Mythos for which you qualify.

Telling of the Tale: The Episkeptis is an unmatched master of fiction. Weaving tales of heroes, villains and all the characters who depend upon

Manifest the Warrior ONLY affects Summons gained via Episkeptis.

At first level you gain the Augment Summoning feat, however, whenever you "craft" a Guardian (See "Crafting Guardians"), you decide which two stats to which the feat applies, instead of Strength and Constitution. (This otherwise IS the Augment Summoning feat)

At third level, your Guardians are tougher to dispel. You add your Charisma modifier to the DC of the Caster Level Check made to dispel your summons.

At sixth level, the benefit granted by Augment Summoning increases to +6 to two different stats, rather than +4.

At ninth level, your Guardians are harder to "kill". They gain extra Hit Points per HD equal to your Charisma modifier in a similar manner to extra Hit Points gained via Constitution.

At 12th level, your Guardians are harder to get rid of. Whenever one of your Guardians is successfully dispelled, you may make a counter check (1d20 + Your Caster Level + Charisma Mod) against a DC equal to the Dispel Check. If you succeed, the Dispel fails and your Guardians stays. If you fail, the creature is dispelled, as normal. ((This effect is so automatic that calling it a Free Action would be insulting.))

At 15th level, the benefit granted by Augment Summoning increases again to +8 to two different stats, rather than +6.

At 18th level, your Guardians are even harder to destroy. They gain an additional 4 Hit Dice for free, on top of any Hit Dice they were crafted with. However, this cannot cause your Summon's Hit Dice to exceed your Episkeptis level, as per normal.


Stories of Heroes and Villains: Some Mythos have the [Summon] tag, these Mythos are treated as if they were Conjuration Spells from the Summoning sub-school, except as noted: creatures brought down to 0 Hit Points or less reform after 5 minutes, rather than 24 hours.

Additionally, you are treated as a spellcaster with a caster level equal to your Episkeptis level, but only in regards to your summons and any effects that are dependent on a Caster Level. This ability does NOT actually grant a Caster Level nor any associated benefits.

Unlike Summon spells, using the various [Summon] Mythos are Standard Actions to use. Additionally, you have complete control over the Guardian, as they are an extension of your own living narrative, rather than an independent creature.

However, because of the difficulty of "telling" so may stories at once, you may only have a number of Guardians active equal to your Charisma modifier.


So, there you have it. They are now Anthols of a Living Narrative who's original story was to tell stories. Which in turn tells the story of the storyteller.

That said, does anyone have any suggestion for an "under the banner" quote? Cause I'm drawing a blank, there.

As an aside, I would also like to suggest Xefas' post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16733848&postcount=8) on making the actual mechanics for Mythos.

[Kymme]

Meant to be Miles per level, but I might make it Miles per level plus Mania at time of Stitching. I see ranges and immediately think [range]/level and just skipped over specifying. XD It bugs me a little that I don't have the wiggle room to go from Miles to Any on Same Plane to just plain Any, but that'd require scaling off of class level than Mythos grades, and I don't want to. >.>

I found it a bit difficult to wrap my head around the fact that a Vitalist's collective went from ~300 ft to anywhere on the same plane. I appreciate the extending in range, but it's still a wee bit weird. I don't think there's anything for it.


Do you think physically stitching people together (ala pidgeon-rat (http://simpsons.wikia.com/wiki/Pigeon-Rat) or via horror tentacle) is even worth doing or too cumbersome? I imagine it mostly for things that won't be going anywhere anyway such as creatures turned into walls, towers, or fortresses, but is it too restrictive if someone really wants to perform mad acts of helpful body horror on their allies from first level?

Honestly, it seems like it would be hard to get your party to agree to making big umbilicals connecting each of them. (Or, gods forbit, reenacting human centipede... :smallyuk:) However, stitching together people's life forces together comes with no squicky imagery and is probably 500 times more creepy.


And I am also a huge fan of a healer being a viable combat role instead of calling that box of wands a healer. I don't think I've ever made a full table, but my longest running Worldthought Medic (aka Vitalist before it was cool) has a list of healing/pp in the notes on his sheet. So like a half assed table maybe? XD

Tacticus, I think this is the start of a beautifully grotesque friendship. :smallsmile:


I'm reposting this here, because it was originally posted at the arse end of the last thread. And I wanted to give them better fluff.

http://i.imgur.com/Ny3uU7Y.png



The Episkeptis

In the Great Wheel, there beings of beyond the scope of mortal kind; powerful and mighty by simple virtue of being. Champions of virtue, waging war eternal on the damned to rid creation of their taint. Vile horrors, committing atrocities and genocide for nor greater reason than, they can. But there are other beings with more... esoteric goals; guardians of order, agents of anarchy and others who stand between.

But the stories of their actions, their forms and even their powers are just that. Stories. Tales for campfires and novels. Creations of fantasy, as much as fiction. They hold only as much power as mortal word allows them to have, which was insubstantial as language itself. Role models of highest virtue, hated enemies of vile nature and those who stand at the sidelines. And such would have been their fate, had it not been that some Stories can live.

And so it is with the Episkeptis. Theirs is not the story of a mighty warrior or rampaging beast, but that of an author and storyteller. They do not simply state a story as being, but bring it to life. They call forth those stories, fusing them with their own Living Narrative to give a form, a function, an ability to act to once unliving tales crafted by men, by gods and by history.

As it is with any ordinary storyteller, the content, moral and meaning of a story can change, so too can the Episkeptis make the stories their own, with embellishments, additions and outright alterations. In this way, no story is ever quite what it first was. With powers, strengths and weaknesses that they did not possess before, the Episkeptis creates soldiers, guardians and beasts with their only goal being that which the Episkeptis says it is.

An Episkeptis is a Summoner. Plain and simple. If you're getting into the fray yourself, you've done something wrong. That's not to say you're totally useless, you can defend yourself if need be, but you really shouldn't need to. Even at low levels you have someone else around to do the fighting for you.

Abilities: The most important ability for an Episkeptis is Charisma. Intelligence and Wisdom are secondary. Constitution is nice to have, as always, but your physical attributes are peripheral. At BEST.

Alignment: The Episkeptis are as diverse as the things they summon, therefore they can be of any alignment.

Starting Gold: As Wizard

Hit Dice: d8
Skill Points: 6 + Intelligence Modifier
Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Heal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (All, taken individually), Listen, Move Silently, Perform (Oratory only) Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device
Proficiencies: Episkeptis are proficient with all Simple weapons, one Martial Weapon, light armour and light shields.



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special
Mythos
Excellencies


1st
+0
+2
+2
+2
The Storyteller's Mythos, Mythos Known, Exceptional Mythos, Embellished Excellence, Ever Vigilant Guardian, Telling of the Tale I, Stories of Heroes and Villains
+1
+1


2nd
+1
+3
+3
+3

+0
+1


3rd
+2
+3
+3
+3
Telling of the Tale II
+1
+0


4th
+3
+4
+4
+4

+0
+1


5th
+3
+4
+4
+4

+1
+0


6th
+4
+5
+5
+5
Telling of the Tale III
+0
+1


7th
+5
+5
+5
+5
Fantastic Mythos
+1
+1


8th
+6/1
+6
+6
+6

+0
+1


9th
+6/1
+6
+6
+6
Telling of the Tale IV
+1
+0


10th
+7/2
+7
+7
+7

+0
+1


11th
+8/3
+7
+7
+7

+1
+0


12th
+9/4
+8
+8
+8
Telling of the Tale V
+0
+1


13th
+9/4
+8
+8
+8
Legendary Mythos
+1
+1


14th
+10/5
+9
+9
+9

+0
+1


15th
+11/6/1
+9
+9
+9
Telling of the Tale VI
+1
+0


16th
+12/7/2
+10
+10
+10

+0
+1


17th
+12/7/2
+10
+10
+10

+1
+0


18th
+13/8/3
+11
+11
+11
Telling of the Tale VII
+0
+1


19th
+14/9/4
+11
+11
+11
Exalted Mythos
+1
+1


20th
+15/10/5
+12
+12
+12

+1
+1



The Storyteller's Mythos: An Episkeptis' power is expressed in terms of one or more "Mythos", the building blocks of the legend they are, and the stories that they have told and will tell. While any given Mythos differs from the rest, they share some similar traits. They are always Supernatural abilities (Except that they function normally in Anti-magic or Dead magic zones, as well as any similar effects, as if they were Extraordinary abilities), except when stated, and when they reference a difficulty class that saving throw is always calculated as (10 + 1/2 class level + Charisma modifier, unless otherwise stated). When a Mythos a "level" that is not clearly defined in some other way, such as "character level", it refers to "class level" as in the number of levels one has in the Episkeptis class. When a Mythos references "allies", it specifically does not refer to the Episkeptis using it. When a Mythos grants a feat as a bonus feat, it is regardless of whether the character meets the prerequisites for that feat (unless otherwise stated), and if the character already possesses that feat (in some permanent fashion - via the normal allotment gained by leveling up, or through another Mythos, and so on, but not those gained temporarily, such as via a "Heroics" spell), they must replace the prior instance of that feat with another feat that they qualify for.


Every Mythos has a Tier. The Tier of a Mythos ranges from 1 to 4, typically referred to as Exceptional, Fantastic, Legendary, and Exalted. Exceptional Mythos are the stories of Knights and Monsters and Beasts. Beings that, while mighty, have been told a thousand times with a thousand faces. Fantastic Mythos are the stories of benevolent angels and vile demons, angry witches and contented healers. Beings of awesome might and exceptional power who often form grand allies and powerful adversaries. Legendary Mythos tell of Demonic rulers, primal forces and ancient, mighty monsters. Beings who's mere existence can alter the course of a tale. Exalted Mythos tell of ancient gods and forgotten powers, greatness beyond imagining and might beyond stopping.

Some Mythos, in addition to their initial stated effect, have Basic and Advanced manifestations. When an Episkeptis gains access to a Mythos with a list of Basic manifestations, they may choose one such manifestation, and they gain that benefit immediately as well. This choice may not be changed later. When an Episkeptis gains access to a Mythos with a list of Advanced manifestations, they may choose one such manifestation, and they gain that benefit upon achieving their next level of Episkeptis. This choice may be changed at any point before receiving the chosen manifestation itself, but not after (choosing beforehand is just an easy way to mark it down on your character sheet so you don't forget that you'll be getting something later).

Mythos Known: A 1st level Episkeptis begins play with one Exceptional Mythos that he qualifies for, if this is his first level in a PC class. At higher levels he gains additional Mythos as noted on the Episkeptis table.

For character that multiclass into Episkeptis after having taken levels in another PC character class, the 1st level of Episkeptis grants no Mythos, rather than one.

An Episkeptis also has the ability to learn more Mythos, above the ones automatically allotted to him by leveling up by perfecting his ability to summon and control. At any time, an Episkeptis may expend funding by writing, telling and publishing tales, but gaining no financial benefit in return. You may not simply writing a book and giving it to a person, but rather you write and tell tales to as many people as you can. The cost of spreading such tales is recouped as a number of Mythos Points equal to the Gold Piece value spent.

By spending 1,000 Mythos Points, and 250xp, he may learn an Exceptional Mythos. A Fantastic Mythos requires 5,000 Mythos Points and 500xp. A Legendary Mythos takes 10,000 Mythos Points, and 1,000xp. And an Exalted Mythos takes 20,000 Mythos Points and 2,000xp.

Learning Mythos above the standard amount requires astounding, nearly single-minded devotion to the story of the Episkeptis. An Episkeptis may only utilize this ability while more than half of his effective character level (ECL) is devoted to levels in the Episkeptis class.

Embellished Excellence: As denoted on their class table, an Episkeptis gains a certain number of abilities known as "Excellencies". These tend to be more general, generic, and passive than a Mythos, but are useful nonetheless, and are drawn from their own separate list, unsegregated by Tiers. Like a Mythos, a Episkeptis may learn more Excellencies above their allotted amount. Each one costs 1,000 Mythos Points and 100xp, plus an additional 1,000 Mythos Points and 100xp for each time a new Excellency is innovated beyond the first. (So, 2,000mp and 200xp for the second, 3,000mp and 300xp for the third, etc.)

Ever Vigilant Guardian: You gain the "Ever Vigilant Guardian" Exceptional Mythos automatically. If you already possess this Mythos via some permanent means (Such as via the Mythborn template or the Broken Storyteller Amalgam feat) you get any other Episkeptis Exceptional Mythos for which you qualify.

Telling of the Tale: The Episkeptis is an unmatched master of fiction. Weaving tales of heroes, villains and all the characters who depend upon

Manifest the Warrior ONLY affects Summons gained via Episkeptis.

At first level you gain the Augment Summoning feat, however, whenever you "craft" a Guardian (See "Crafting Guardians"), you decide which two stats to which the feat applies, instead of Strength and Constitution. (This otherwise IS the Augment Summoning feat)

At third level, your Guardians are tougher to dispel. You add your Charisma modifier to the DC of the Caster Level Check made to dispel your summons.

At sixth level, the benefit granted by Augment Summoning increases to +6 to two different stats, rather than +4.

At ninth level, your Guardians are harder to "kill". They gain extra Hit Points per HD equal to your Charisma modifier in a similar manner to extra Hit Points gained via Constitution.

At 12th level, your Guardians are harder to get rid of. Whenever one of your Guardians is successfully dispelled, you may make a counter check (1d20 + Your Caster Level + Charisma Mod) against a DC equal to the Dispel Check. If you succeed, the Dispel fails and your Guardians stays. If you fail, the creature is dispelled, as normal. ((This effect is so automatic that calling it a Free Action would be insulting.))

At 15th level, the benefit granted by Augment Summoning increases again to +8 to two different stats, rather than +6.

At 18th level, your Guardians are even harder to destroy. They gain an additional 4 Hit Dice for free, on top of any Hit Dice they were crafted with. However, this cannot cause your Summon's Hit Dice to exceed your Episkeptis level, as per normal.


Stories of Heroes and Villains: Some Mythos have the [Summon] tag, these Mythos are treated as if they were Conjuration Spells from the Summoning sub-school, except as noted: creatures brought down to 0 Hit Points or less reform after 5 minutes, rather than 24 hours.

Additionally, you are treated as a spellcaster with a caster level equal to your Episkeptis level, but only in regards to your summons and any effects that are dependent on a Caster Level. This ability does NOT actually grant a Caster Level nor any associated benefits.

Unlike Summon spells, using the various [Summon] Mythos are Standard Actions to use. Additionally, you have complete control over the Guardian, as they are an extension of your own living narrative, rather than an independent creature.

However, because of the difficulty of "telling" so may stories at once, you may only have a number of Guardians active equal to your Charisma modifier.


So, there you have it. They are now Anthols of a Living Narrative who's original story was to tell stories. Which in turn tells the story of the storyteller.

That said, does anyone have any suggestion for an "under the banner" quote? Cause I'm drawing a blank, there.

As an aside, I would also like to suggest Xefas' post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16733848&postcount=8) on making the actual mechanics for Mythos.

UHHHHHHHGGHHGHGHGHHGHG, MYTHIC SUMMONER!!!! I'm so hype for this. Can't wait to see what the Mythos will look like.

Also, have you considered doing more typical 'basically a super-refluffed high damage spell' kind of summons? I mean, that's pretty much the whole point of Personas. The way you have it set out (as far as names and fluff goes) seems more like the Pathfinder Summoner or the Rappeler (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?307935-Rappeler-Tier-3-Summoning-3-5-Base-Class).

I'll get right on to adding that post to the start thing-y.

[Sgt. Cookie]

The Guardians and The Protector (Granted by Vigil of the Protector (AKA a renamed Ever Vigilant guardian)) ARE essentially the Pathfinder Summoner's Eidolon. After all, as the linked post said "[Imagine] the character exactly as you want them to be, then find mechanics similar to that, then tweak."

Each Guardian has a "base" form that includes inherent abilities and such, but they can also be "tweaked" to fulfil a slightly different role. But, these tweaks are only available to THAT Guardian in particular.

For example the Mythos "Stories of Combat" gives you the ability to summon a Guardian known as The Warrior. In its default state, it's a Sword and Board fighter with a Shield, a Longsword and a chain shirt.

You can alter it to be a Great Sword wielding, Full plate donned, Power Attacking for full Knight. Alternatively, it could be a Dual Wielding, poison using, slayer of all that's good demon.

Other Mythos, however, grant various "tweaks" that can apply to multiple Guardians, instead of just one.

Now, barring a significant shift in moral outlook, a Guardian's form and abilities are static and unchanging. The Protector, OTOH, is more like how the Eidolon is presented normally. So I don't think I need to explain THAT.


To answer your question, some Guardians (At all Tiers) have abilities (Sometimes optional, sometimes inherent) that allows the Guardian to go "F*** this place in particular and everyone in it" at the cost of the Guardian's life. But the Guardian's nature, they return ready to fight a short time later.

That help?

[commander panda]

reposting the last part of my conversation with JKTrickster from the other thread.




turns out i'm gonna have time now rather than later, so here are my thoughts.


1. Do we even need the Goad feat? Honestly its such a limited feat. Maybe we can just make a whole new "Goad" mechanic. It wouldn't be hard honestly and it gets rid of the crappy base we keep having to make edits too.
we have rewritten most of it by now haven't we... ok, we'll write it into the actual goading manifestation. i have a new idea for a base ability. i'll do point form again.
-glare at person within line of sight/hearing. force will save.
-if they fail they become worried about your pressence, and need keep a constant eye on you. any round in which they don't spend at least a move action paying attention to the belletor, they take a -6 on attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws and their AC. ("paying attention" can mean anything from staring at you to targeting you with a scorching ray.)


2. It doesn't make sense to do the Goad as a "move or standard" cause people are just going to use Move.....why would they ever use their Standard?
the option is there for all those brom types (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN30YMzja6Y) who want to just move and evade till their opponent drops. that said, if we extend the duration of goad it becomes unnecessary, so that can go.


3. We need a duration for the Goad ability. They shouldn't have to keep reapplying it. Let's say.....Half Bellator level rounds? 1 minute? Your choice. (I favor the one minute)
eh, i'm more in favour of 1d6+int mod rounds (or maybe 1d8 rounds). the idea of a single will save locking an opponent into fighting the belletor for a full 10 turns seems a bit cruel. i would just say that the belletor can extend the duration by goading her opponent again every couple of turns.


4. Do you think the escalating feature is too weak? Like Allnightmask pointed out, 4 rounds is an awful amount of time. Would it be broken to start the "Exhaustion" aspect straight at "Exhausted" instead of "Fatigued"?

I want to time it such that it's like:

Round 1: Strong Debuff that hinders you -> Round 2: Debilitating Debuff that completely shuts you down-> Round 3: Save against this Debuff, or be completely helpless as the Bellator destroys you.

How does that sound? Is that fast enough? 3 saves is still a challenge...

how about this? goad:
start off already fatigued, swift action brings you to exhaustion, another brings you to exhaustion/staggering, a third brings you to helplessness.

herding:
start off already frightened, swift action makes you panicked, a second makes you panicked and nauseated, a third makes you nauseated and cowering (i realize nausea and cowering don't compliment each other mechanically, but i'm really liking the idea that the belletor's enemies are so terrified as he comes for them that their stomach and bowls start rebelling.)



5. Instead of providing a speed boost, I like the idea of a speed penalty better. Its not the Bellator is running faster - but his/her enemies are too busy tripping over their own feet/soiling their undergarments to effectively run away.
done. walking is more intimidating anyway.



7. I like the idea of fleeing enemies take Nonlethal Damage. What happens if they are immune to this? Do they just not take any Nonlethal damage?
yeah, probably.


8. I think the "Extra Targets" should be one manifestation. Taking it once increases your cap to (Half Bellator Level). Then at level 13, it automatically grants (Full Bellator Level) instead. Scaling! :smallbiggrin:
fair enough. we'll go with that.


9. Then make the "No need to understand Bellator" a separate Manifestation. Include that it can affect Animals and such and such. Hesitant, but should it be Mind Affecting, or no?
i think so. if goad was mind effecting this probably should be to, since its basically a more versatile version of the same concept.


10. I like the idea of making the penalties even more severe. I'm not sure these penalties are strong enough though. with the progression of status effects sped up, the penalties will also definitely need to be amped up, yeah.


I like the idea that missing your attack against the Bellator provokes punishment. But striking allies is hard to pull off unless you're really fighting a lot of enemies. Maybe grant an AoO? its a good point, but granting AoO's kinda goes against what i'm going for. perhaps it will get a bit more use if i give ranged enemies a threatened area or "everyone threatening the belletor"?


I like the idea of dealing Nonlethal damage to those who run away, but wouldn't this be too similar to what the Fear Manifestation does already? Maybe we can add something new and spicy.
i actually meant to remove that part from the herding mythos. it's supposed to get that ability from the advanced manifestation.


Hmm....maybe something like people who fail their save against you (but manage to run away) - when they encounter you again within 24 hours, they are automatically frightened again and take a penalty to their saves (even if they were Panicked, etc.)
buuuut i might just make another manifestation for this idea anyway.

[Tacitus]

Before the Vitalist there was the Worldthought Medic, and the range was different, increasing every 3 levels. 30ft, Close, Medium, Long, Miles, Any, Planar. Vitalist cut out the first two and skipped miles when they ported to Pathfinder. That always just felt strange to me, but having a higher initial range helps a ton.

1 30 ft 30 ft
4 Close 25 ft. + 5 ft. per two class levels
7 Medium 100 ft. + 10 ft. for every class level
10 Long 400 ft. + 40 ft. for every class level
13 Miles 1 mile per class level
16 Any Any distance as long as they remain on the same plane
19 Planar Any distance, even over planar and dimensional boundaries.

So, my ranges were based mostly on that.

And aye, I can't really see anyone willing to let an Occasus do any of the things that are Manic, and possibly label most of them as inhumane. I mean hell, you can probably turn a community of dwarves into a better fortress than the mountain they inhabit by 13th level. It might be a crime against dwarfanity and super Manic, but its possible.
Would being able to Stitch souls as Exceptional be too much, or should it stay Fantastic? Should I make it two separate Mythos, or is the function close enough to not be necessary? Do you figure the strange existence as both Exceptional and Fantastic is a bad thing?

[Sgt. Cookie]

Ooh, I just had an idea.

First off, remove the last line from Stories of Heroes and Villains.

Second, there is a new ability called "Weaver of unrelated tales" that does the following:

"The Episkeptis can weave multiple stories together, bringing them into the light simultaneously. But it can only do this for so many.

The Episkeptis gains a "Guardian Pool" that, at first level, is equal to his Charisma modifier."


Now, this change is important because it allows me to have a "standardised" name for this pool, which allows for some funky effects.

Namely, burning points from this pool (For varying times), to do some "traditional" summoning in the form of "I summon this mighty beast to immediately wreck face".

[JKTrickster]

So I think whole new Mythos classes deserve their own thread. That way the while Homebrew community can pitch in on them for balance too!

Spoilered below for the Bellator Mythos that commander panda is working on





we have rewritten most of it by now haven't we... ok, we'll write it into the actual goading manifestation. i have a new idea for a base ability. i'll do point form again.
-glare at person within line of sight/hearing. force will save.
-if they fail they become worried about your pressence, and need keep a constant eye on you. any round in which they don't spend at least a move action paying attention to the belletor, they take a -6 on attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws and their AC. ("paying attention" can mean anything from staring at you to targeting you with a scorching ray.)

I would change the wording from glare -> challenge. More generic term so individual Bellators can decide however they want to do so.

Ah so paying attention means they have to take offensive action against you (or at least spend a move action....giving you a dirty look?)

So how would this interact with Summoning Spells? Teleportation spells? What if they cannot take any actions against you (for some reason).

What if they can harm you with a Swift Action? Does that not count anymore? Logically, I feel like that should...



the option is there for all those brom types (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN30YMzja6Y) who want to just move and evade till their opponent drops. that said, if we extend the duration of goad it becomes unnecessary, so that can go.


Well....Standard Actions can be traded for Move Actions. So after you use a move, you trade your standard away and move however you want. It'll make the wording more concise too.



eh, i'm more in favour of 1d6+int mod rounds (or maybe 1d8 rounds). the idea of a single will save locking an opponent into fighting the belletor for a full 10 turns seems a bit cruel. i would just say that the belletor can extend the duration by goading her opponent again every couple of turns.

Ah that is more than fair. In that case, 1d6 + Int might be too long too. Int is their secondary attribute and they're likely to pump it.

What about Half Bellator level? That way it's only about 3 rounds to begin with, and slowly scales to 10 rounds at level 20.



how about this? goad:
start off already fatigued, swift action brings you to exhaustion, another brings you to exhaustion/staggering, a third brings you to helplessness.

herding:
start off already frightened, swift action makes you panicked, a second makes you panicked and nauseated, a third makes you nauseated and cowering (i realize nausea and cowering don't compliment each other mechanically, but i'm really liking the idea that the belletor's enemies are so terrified as he comes for them that their stomach and bowls start rebelling.)


First I'm assuming these are in addition to whatever effects the normal base ability is.

I like the Fatigued -> Exhaustion -> Staggered. It doesn't make sense to go to Helpless. A Staggered character is literally 1 hit point of damage from becoming Unconscious so why even bother?


For the second ability, I think Nauseated is too strong. You literally can't take any actions and there are no ways to become immune to this effect (compared to Cowering, which also takes away your actions but is much easier to defend against).

For the Fear part, do they still have to spend actions to attack you? Or can they opt to run away?



i think so. if goad was mind effecting this probably should be to, since its basically a more versatile version of the same concept.

Okay then! This will be a Mind Affecting ability. If someone has protection, they're just not affected - let's not make this too strong for a Fantastic level Mythos



its a good point, but granting AoO's kinda goes against what i'm going for. perhaps it will get a bit more use if i give ranged enemies a threatened area or "everyone threatening the belletor"?

Hmm what we need is some kind of new aspect that isn't too overpowering. After all its still the same Mythos, just an ability they get one level later.

Why not we make a full draft for now and then roll it out? See what we have working with?

[commander panda]

I would change the wording from glare -> challenge. More generic term so individual Bellators can decide however they want to do so.
i'll do that. bear in mind that these point form lists are kinda colloquial in nature. all the wording will change in the actual mythos description.


Ah so paying attention means they have to take offensive action against you (or at least spend a move action....giving you a dirty look?)

So how would this interact with Summoning Spells? Teleportation spells? What if they cannot take any actions against you (for some reason).
just to be clear, the person is still capable of taking their own actions. its just a pain in the ***. also, paying attention could equally mean running away from you.



Well....Standard Actions can be traded for Move Actions. So after you use a move, you trade your standard away and move however you want. It'll make the wording more concise too.
huh. weird. i was under the impression that you cant trade your standard actions for movement unless you're taking a double action. the more you know, i guess.




Ah that is more than fair. In that case, 1d6 + Int might be too long too. Int is their secondary attribute and they're likely to pump it.

What about Half Bellator level? That way it's only about 3 rounds to begin with, and slowly scales to 10 rounds at level 20. i'm not really in favour of having a set time... maybe 1d4+int?



First I'm assuming these are in addition to whatever effects the normal base ability is.
i should have clarified this. when you target someone with your glare/challenge/taunt you have the option of activating the base ability at the beginning of the post, or one of the two expanded manifestations. you don't use the base mythos effect and the (for instance) goading manifestation simultaneously.


I like the Fatigued -> Exhaustion -> Staggered. It doesn't make sense to go to Helpless. A Staggered character is literally 1 hit point of damage from becoming Unconscious so why even bother? going helpless represents the enemy simply keeling over and passing out.... and only now do i realize that helplessness and unconsciousness are not the same thing.
ok slight change goad:
start off already fatigued, swift action brings you to exhaustion, another and you can take only a single move action or standard action each round (on top of exhaustion), a third brings you to unconsiousness.



For the second ability, I think Nauseated is too strong. You literally can't take any actions and there are no ways to become immune to this effect (compared to Cowering, which also takes away your actions but is much easier to defend against).
fair enough. nausea is scrapped.


Okay then! This will be a Mind Affecting ability. If someone has protection, they're just not affected - let's not make this too strong for a Fantastic level Mythos
agreed.


Hmm what we need is some kind of new aspect that isn't too overpowering. After all its still the same Mythos, just an ability they get one level later.

Why not we make a full draft for now and then roll it out? See what we have working with?
very well. i'll try to get a full draft written up tomorrow.

[JKTrickster]

just to be clear, the person is still capable of taking their own actions. its just a pain in the ***. also, paying attention could equally mean running away from you.

Ah make sure that this is clear then. That makes more sense.




i'm not really in favour of having a set time... maybe 1d4+int?

Hmm...Wanna just do Half Int? d4 or d6 is up to you, but full Int seems too prone to optimization.




going helpless represents the enemy simply keeling over and passing out.... and only now do i realize that helplessness and unconsciousness are not the same thing.
ok slight change [SPOILER]goad:
start off already fatigued, swift action brings you to exhaustion, another and you can take only a single move action or standard action each round (on top of exhaustion), a third brings you to unconsiousness.

Want to do Exhausted -> Staggered -> Unconscious instead? Also I think this one should depend on a Fort Save instead of a Will Save. Visually, imagine that the Bellator was actively sapping his opponents strengths: either through dodges, or constants blows towards his joints that slow him down, or other such tricks that look cool in fights.

Also for the fear Mythos, make the last stage: Cowering and Helpless. Otherwise it wouldn't match up to Unconscious.

[commander panda]

Ah make sure that this is clear then. That makes more sense.


Hmm...Wanna just do Half Int? d4 or d6 is up to you, but full Int seems too prone to optimization.


Want to do Exhausted -> Staggered -> Unconscious instead? Also I think this one should depend on a Fort Save instead of a Will Save. Visually, imagine that the Bellator was actively sapping his opponents strengths: either through dodges, or constants blows towards his joints that slow him down, or other such tricks that look cool in fights.

Also for the fear Mythos, make the last stage: Cowering and Helpless. Otherwise it wouldn't match up to Unconscious.

not going to bother splitting this up. it all sounds good.

[JKTrickster]

Hey commander panda.

I think we need to fix up Discarding Quixotic Ideals - the Mythos that you made to deal Bonus damage.

Right now it's a little too messy and doesn't quite make a lot of sense.

EDIT:

Also Xefas, did you get my PM? :smallbiggrin:

[commander panda]

yeah, i think kymme made a lot of changes to my stuff when he put it in his compendium. i've been meaning to ask him to switch it back or let me make edits.

here's the original. its a tiny bit op, but it makes more sense.

F#@* Chivalry!
prerequisites: -

The Bellator is many things. Sometimes she is a hawk-eyed commander, another day a whimsical rapier wielding dualist, and on a third she is tree-perched archer. She can assume many roles, but sometimes she prefers to be simply a pragmatist, striking where she can, as hard as she can.

The Bellator has become adept at attacking her foes in ways they can neither easily predict nor easily defend against. Whenever the Bellator hits an enemy who is denied their dexterity bonus to their AC, she deals a number of d4s in bonus damage based on her class level. This maneuver is not precision damage and works on enemies that would normally be immune to techniques like sneak attack.
This mythos is considered equivalent to sneak attack for the purpose of qualifying for feats, prestige classes and for determining her effectiveness against enemies with uncanny dodge.


Bellator level
Bonus Die


Level 1
1d4


Level 3
2d4


Level 5
3d4


Level 7
4d4


Level 9
5d4


Level 11
6d4


Level 13
7d4


Level 15
8d4


Level 17
9d4


Level 19
10d4



basic
I Kick Him In The Balls
prerequisites: -
The Bellator knows very well where to hit a man so it hurts.
As a standard action the Bellator may preform a special unarmed attack to strike her opponent where it really really hurts. If the attack lands successfully, the target must make a fort save or be staggered for a number of rounds equal to the Bellator's strength modifier. if the Bellator kicks him again before he recovers the time is reset and he is also shaken and denied his dexterity modifier to his AC. The time is reset each time the Bellator kicks the person.
This attack can only be used on enemies with a discernible anatomy who feel pain. undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures are unaffected.
despite the name, this strike is not limited to nut shots, and is therefore not limited to men. If used against a women, the Bellator might just give her a strong kick to the stomach, so she keels over.

Ground And Pound
prerequisites: -
The bellator gains Improved Grappling as a bonus feat.
Once the Bellator has pinned an enemy during a grapple she can attack with two weapons, draw weapons while pinning and escape another's grapple while pinning. Attacks while grappling no longer incur a -4 penalty. Any round in which the Bellator strikes a pinned opponent, they take a penalty on their escape artist checks, grapple checks, attack rolls and concentration checks equal to her strength modifier.
Finally, while the Bellator's opponent is pinned, he does not gain his dexterity modifier to his AC against her attacks.

To Be A Dirty, Dirt Flinging, Dirt-Bag
prerequisites: -
If the Bellator is standing on loose and moveable ground (sand, mud, gravel, sewage, water, ect) she can kick the loose material into an opponents square within her reach, avoidable with a reflex saving throw, as a standard action or as part of a full attack. If her opponent fails the save the muck gets in his eyes, and everyone he sees is treated as having partial concealment from him until he takes a full round to remove the grime (this provokes an attack of opportunity.) the target needs to actually have eyes to be effected.
Obviously, if the material used would have other negative effects on contact with the Bellator's target, such as acid, they are also applied if the attack hits.
The Bellator's enemy does not gain his dexterity modifier to his AC until he clears his eyes.

advanced
Dirtier Fighting
prerequisite: I Kick Him In The Balls
The Bellator loves nut shots, revels in their effectiveness, and has worked hard to make that effectiveness lasting. When the Bellator kicks someone in the balls, the effects are harder to shake off. Once the normal duration of his pain is over, the Bellator's opponent must roll a fortitude save at the beginning of his next turn or continue to suffer the consequences of getting sacked. He must continue to attempt fortitude saves at the beginning of each of his turns until he succeeds.

Beat Em When They're down
prerequisite: Ground And Pound
gain the improved grab ability.
The Bellator is no longer confined to fighting with light weapons during a grapple, and can employ one and two handed weapons against grappled foes. She now gets an untyped +4 bonus on grapple checks.

Improved Dirt-Baggery
prerequisite: To be a dirty, dirt flinging, dirt-bag
The Bellator has become a master of kicking sewage at people. She can now sling muck at up to two additional increments of her reach (so a medium Bellator, with a reach of 5 feet, can sling mud up too 15ft, and a large one, with a reach of 10 feet, could sling it up too 30.)
In fact she makes such good use of the trick that she now actively equips powders and liquids to use it with. If the Bellator is holding a material in her hand that she could normally kick at her opponent, she may substitute an attack to throw it at him. The material could be a handful of sand/vile of acid/mug of ale/etc/etc. Really anything that can be held and could easily get in ones eyes.

Thuggish Training Regimen
prerequisite: -
This manifestation can be taken multiple times, and each time the effects will stack on top of each other. Each time the Bellator takes this manifestation, she may add a damage bonus that starts at +2. with each purchase of this manifestation the bellator adds a number to the total damage bonus equal to the previous purchase doubled (so her second purchase would give +4 damage, third would give +8, fourth would give +16 and so on.)

also my other mythos. the changes are fewer, but many of them rebalance the overall mythos, so its worth showing.
Pin And Bug Restrainment
prerequisites:-

There are all kinds of people in the world. There are big people, and little people, and REALLY big people, and tiny winged people and grumpy old people that throw fire. There is a truly astounding variety of people out there.... and SO MANY want a piece of the Bellator! Not that she's complaining, per se, but some times she wishes they would just shut up and sit still!
As standard action, while wielding either a piercing weapon or a weapon that could conceivably do piercing damage (such as a longsword,) the Bellator can attempt to drive her weapon through her opponent and pin them to a nearby surface. This surface can be an adjacent wall/pillar/etc, the floor, and any other surface deemed reasonable by the DM. (for example, the DM could rule that it would be possible for a Bellator to pin someone's hand to a table with a dagger, but only if the hand was already on said table.)
to use this attack, the Bellator must first declare their intention to do so. the target may attempt a reflex save to avoid being pinned in place. regardless of weather the manuver works, the attack will deal half damage. If successful, the opponent cannot move out of their square, and takes the initial damage dealt again whenever they attempt a reflex saving throw (which they take a -10 on.)
This ability stays in effect as long as the weapon pinning the target stays embedded in both them and the surface behind them. Removing the Bellator's weapon deals the initial damage all over again.

basic
Hammer And Nail Body Security
prerequisites:-
Sometimes the Bellator gets stressed. She is a busy woman. She is a leader. She is a soldier. she is a body guard, a dragon slayer, a hunter, a tactician and a legend. She does not have time for your bull****, nor anyone else's.
when the bellator nails down her foe, she has the option to work out some stress and make a strength check to drive her weapon deeper. Whenever someone attempts to remove the weapon they must beat the strength check to be successful. damage is dealt to the pinned person regardless of whether the check is beat or not.

Rough And Tumble Acupuncture
prerequisites:-
There is a simple truth in warfare. The one who can deal the most damage the most quickly wins. This is a fact. The strong warrior can give life ending wounds with a speed compaired to lightning. But it is not the only truth, for in battle, a skilled warrior can deal no damage at all.
When stabbing her blade through a fool, the Bellator has the option no do no damage, rather then the normal half damage. This could be done by simply pinning their clothes to a wall, or the Bellator could slide her blade smoothly between muscle and bone in a way that barley makes her target bleed. Her choice.

advanced
Corpse Stacking Needle Charge
prerequisites:-
Gain Improved Bullrush as a bonus feat. If she already has that, the Bellator is now considered one size larger for the purpose of making bullrush checks.
The Bellator's unsettling talent for nailing her adversaries in place reaches new heights, as she learns fresh and exiting ways to trap enemies on the blade of her sword.
Whenever the Bellator successfully lands a Pin And Bug Restrainment strike, rather then run her weapon into a nearby surface and trap the fool, she can make an immediate bullrush attempt to push him in the direction of her choice. If successful, the Bellator can follow along with her opponent and keep him impaled on her blade, moving him at a rate of 5 ft for every 1 point by which she beat his opposing strength check. If, on their way, the two enter another creatures square, the Bellator can make an additional bullrush attempt against them too. if that succeeds, they are also impaled, and come along for the ride. At the end of her turn, regardless of how far she travels, the Bellator must drive her weapon into a surface and pin her new friends.

Big Game Bug Hunting
prerequisites:-
Gain Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot as bonus feats.
The Bellator may now use the Pin And Bug Restrainment mythos with ranged piercing weapons (excluding weapons with extremely fine ammunition, like a sling or pistol.)

[Kymme]

yeah, i think kymme made a lot of changes to my stuff when he put it in his compendium. i've been meaning to ask him to switch it back or let me make edits.

here's the original. its a tiny bit op, but it makes more sense.

F#@* Chivalry!
prerequisites: -

The Bellator is many things. Sometimes she is a hawk-eyed commander, another day a whimsical rapier wielding dualist, and on a third she is tree-perched archer. She can assume many roles, but sometimes she prefers to be simply a pragmatist, striking where she can, as hard as she can.

The Bellator has become adept at attacking her foes in ways they can neither easily predict nor easily defend against. Whenever the Bellator hits an enemy who is denied their dexterity bonus to their AC, she deals a number of d4s in bonus damage based on her class level. This maneuver is not precision damage and works on enemies that would normally be immune to techniques like sneak attack.
This mythos is considered equivalent to sneak attack for the purpose of qualifying for feats, prestige classes and for determining her effectiveness against enemies with uncanny dodge.


Bellator level
Bonus Die


Level 1
1d4


Level 3
2d4


Level 5
3d4


Level 7
4d4


Level 9
5d4


Level 11
6d4


Level 13
7d4


Level 15
8d4


Level 17
9d4


Level 19
10d4



basic
I Kick Him In The Balls
prerequisites: -
The Bellator knows very well where to hit a man so it hurts.
As a standard action the Bellator may preform a special unarmed attack to strike her opponent where it really really hurts. If the attack lands successfully, the target must make a fort save or be staggered for a number of rounds equal to the Bellator's strength modifier. if the Bellator kicks him again before he recovers the time is reset and he is also shaken and denied his dexterity modifier to his AC. The time is reset each time the Bellator kicks the person.
This attack can only be used on enemies with a discernible anatomy who feel pain. undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures are unaffected.
despite the name, this strike is not limited to nut shots, and is therefore not limited to men. If used against a women, the Bellator might just give her a strong kick to the stomach, so she keels over.

Ground And Pound
prerequisites: -
The bellator gains Improved Grappling as a bonus feat.
Once the Bellator has pinned an enemy during a grapple she can attack with two weapons, draw weapons while pinning and escape another's grapple while pinning. Attacks while grappling no longer incur a -4 penalty. Any round in which the Bellator strikes a pinned opponent, they take a penalty on their escape artist checks, grapple checks, attack rolls and concentration checks equal to her strength modifier.
Finally, while the Bellator's opponent is pinned, he does not gain his dexterity modifier to his AC against her attacks.

To Be A Dirty, Dirt Flinging, Dirt-Bag
prerequisites: -
If the Bellator is standing on loose and moveable ground (sand, mud, gravel, sewage, water, ect) she can kick the loose material into an opponents square within her reach, avoidable with a reflex saving throw, as a standard action or as part of a full attack. If her opponent fails the save the muck gets in his eyes, and everyone he sees is treated as having partial concealment from him until he takes a full round to remove the grime (this provokes an attack of opportunity.) the target needs to actually have eyes to be effected.
Obviously, if the material used would have other negative effects on contact with the Bellator's target, such as acid, they are also applied if the attack hits.
The Bellator's enemy does not gain his dexterity modifier to his AC until he clears his eyes.

advanced
Dirtier Fighting
prerequisite: I Kick Him In The Balls
The Bellator loves nut shots, revels in their effectiveness, and has worked hard to make that effectiveness lasting. When the Bellator kicks someone in the balls, the effects are harder to shake off. Once the normal duration of his pain is over, the Bellator's opponent must roll a fortitude save at the beginning of his next turn or continue to suffer the consequences of getting sacked. He must continue to attempt fortitude saves at the beginning of each of his turns until he succeeds.

Beat Em When They're down
prerequisite: Ground And Pound
gain the improved grab ability.
The Bellator is no longer confined to fighting with light weapons during a grapple, and can employ one and two handed weapons against grappled foes. She now gets an untyped +4 bonus on grapple checks.

Improved Dirt-Baggery
prerequisite: To be a dirty, dirt flinging, dirt-bag
The Bellator has become a master of kicking sewage at people. She can now sling muck at up to two additional increments of her reach (so a medium Bellator, with a reach of 5 feet, can sling mud up too 15ft, and a large one, with a reach of 10 feet, could sling it up too 30.)
In fact she makes such good use of the trick that she now actively equips powders and liquids to use it with. If the Bellator is holding a material in her hand that she could normally kick at her opponent, she may substitute an attack to throw it at him. The material could be a handful of sand/vile of acid/mug of ale/etc/etc. Really anything that can be held and could easily get in ones eyes.

Thuggish Training Regimen
prerequisite: -
This manifestation can be taken multiple times, and each time the effects will stack on top of each other. Each time the Bellator takes this manifestation, she may add a damage bonus that starts at +2. with each purchase of this manifestation the bellator adds a number to the total damage bonus equal to the previous purchase doubled (so her second purchase would give +4 damage, third would give +8, fourth would give +16 and so on.)

Oh yeah, sorry about that. :smallredface: I kind of took the base idea and went somewhere else with it, especially when names were concerned. I just didn't really think that F*** Chivalry was the best name for an ability sharing a list with all the flowery-noun pranas of Xefas' design.

[commander panda]

i see what you mean, (primal fury said something similar) but i kinda wish you had asked first, given that your version is the one everyone is seeing, and therefor the 'official verson.' i would have been willing to find a more serious itineration of the name that still conveyed what it was.

[spikeof2010]

Kymme, I recommend you put the other non-Xefos Mythos classes in the OP.

[Kymme]

i see what you mean, (primal fury said something similar) but i kinda wish you had asked first, given that your version is the one everyone is seeing, and therefor the 'official verson.' i would have been willing to find a more serious version of the name that still conveyed what it was.

Sorry about that. I didn't mean to take the reins of the whole mythos away from ya. The Doc is completely open to comments, though, so if you have any critique or suggestions or things you'd like to see, feel free to shout them at me until I do something.


Kymme, I recommend you put the other non-Xefos Mythos classes in the OP.

Technically they are in the OP. You'll find all the non-Xefas classes in the Mythos Compendium, which is the fourth link from the top.

[commander panda]

Sorry about that. I didn't mean to take the reins of the whole mythos away from ya. The Doc is completely open to comments, though, so if you have any critique or suggestions or things you'd like to see, feel free to shout them at me until I do something.


ok, thanks. i was actually planning on rebooting my old mythos/excellencies to make them work a bit better (mostly the excellencies.) so how about i edit them then then yell at you till you swap them?

[Kymme]

ok, thanks. i was actually planning on rebooting my old mythos/excellencies to make them work a bit better (mostly the excellencies.) so how about i edit them then then yell at you till you swap them?

Sounds like the best possible plan.

Now, here are two Bellator Mythos from the database. I was asked to post them here so that they could be discussed more at large.

[Exalted]
Prerequisite: The ‘Summoning the Loyal Steel’ Exceptional Mythos.

With a full-round action, you may store (½ of your Bellator level) weapons elsewhere, including ranged weapons and shields. This Mythos is stackable infinitely; a Bellator can have as many weapons stored elsewhere as he wishes. In order to summon a specific weapon, you must spend a move action concentrating, which causes the summoned weapon to drop to the ground at your feet. You may also uses Mythos such as Summoning the Loyal Steel to draw your weapons from elsewhere.

As a standard action, the Bellator may release their grip on their weapons, causing them to fall in a circle (10 ft per Bellator level) in diameter. Her weapons do not immediately become tangible, but rather they glow with ghostly blue-white flames, and though they appear to be embedded within the scenery, they can neither be grasped nor moved by anyone but the Bellator for one hour, after which the flames disperse and the weaponry rejoins existence. Should she activate Thousand Arms Prana before the hour’s end, she may instantly banish her emblazoned weaponry with a thought if she chooses, or may otherwise sheath new weaponry elsewhere. If the Bellator grasps an emblazoned weapon at any point before the hour ends, the weapon immediately re-enters existence. It still does not become tangible to others until the hour has passed.

As a free action, the Bellator may teleport to one of her emblazoned weapons, pulling it from the ground in the process. This movement is instantaneous

Weapons drawn from elsewhere through use of this Mythos or Summoning the Loyal steel are sheathed in blue-white flames. All attacks made with these weapons for one hour after they are summoned are treated as touch attacks. You may now draw and sheath individual weapons in elsewhere as a free action.

Should the Bellator die while using this Mythos, her weapons do not spring from elsewhere, but rather float through the pocket-space of not-here, individual weapons falling to the Material Plane and other planes across (½ of the late Bellator’s level) months.

Advanced
My Body Is Made Of Infinite Swords: You are no longer a mere mortal. Something has happened to make you… transcendent. Your arsenal of conjured weapons becomes just as much a part of you as your mind or your heart.

You gain all the immunities of the Construct type. (Re-printed here for your convenience)

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, and necromancy effects.
Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability damage, ability drain, fatigue, exhaustion, or energy drain.
Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or his harmless).

In addition, you gain DR X/- and Fast Healing X, where X is equal to half your character level.

Opening the Gate of Babylon: With a simple gesture you may summon hand-sized spatial distortions that function as one-way portals to the elsewhere where your arsenal is stored. These distortions can take the form of doors, small ring-shaped portals, or ripples in the air - it varies from Bellator to Bellator. Through these portals come your weapons, flying blade-first towards whichever foe you designate. Treat this attack as a melee attack for purposes of the attack and damage rolls, though it has a 50 ft range increment. These attacks may be used interchangeably with normal attacks on a full attack, Strike maneuvers, or attacks of opportunity.

In addition, you gain Manyshot and Greater Manyshot (XPH) as bonus feats. Your conjured weapons count as arrows for the purposes of these feats.

If one of your attacks misses, that weapon embeds itself in the ground, becoming intangible for one hour as per the normal effects of Thousand Arms Prana.


[Excellency]
Prerequisite: One Fantastic Mythos.

As part of a full-attack action, you may opt to not make some of your attacks. You may sacrifice one attacks up to a maximum of one less than the number of attacks you would otherwise be able to make in that full attack (this includes additional attacks granted by the Speed weapon enhancement or the Haste spell, but not additional attacks granted by the Multiweapon or Two-Weapon Fighting feat chains).

For each attack sacrificed, you multiply your weapon’s base damage by one and gain a +2 circumstance bonus to the attack roll. Your weapon’s damage is multiplied before adding in damage from outside sources, such as a Bard’s Inspire Courage or Sneak Attack.

[JKTrickster]

Okay so first of all:

The Bonus Damage Mythos has to be revamped. You need a thematic connection between Dealing Damage and the 3 Manifestations that you have. Bonus damage isn't that bad but the rest of this stuff....wow.

Each Manifestation seems like a completely different beast that does not connect with the base Mythos

The first Manifestation that staggers for [Str Mod] rounds. That's....absolutely ridiculous. You do realize that when Staggered, dealing even 1 point of damage makes them Unconscious? And then paradoxically, they get a weaker condition when they fail the save twice. What?

The second Manifestation with Grappling.....has nothing to do with anything the Mythos seems to be dealing with. My biggest complain is lack of synchronicity. What story is this supposed to be?

The third Manifestation is extremely odd and requires more precise wording. E.g. what happens if they have eyes, but don't depend on them to see? Things like that.


Pin and Bug Restraint is odd, and the power level is uneven between the different Manifestations. I'll look into it more deeply later.


EDIT:

For Swords as Springs Coiled - why only Full Attacks? How about - whenever you can make multiple attacks?

Interested as to why you felt like you should not be able to do this with TWFing. Is it because of thematic issues more than balance issues?

[Kymme]

Okay so first of all:

The Bonus Damage Mythos has to be revamped. You need a thematic connection between Dealing Damage and the 3 Manifestations that you have. Bonus damage isn't that bad but the rest of this stuff....wow.

Each Manifestation seems like a completely different beast that does not connect with the base Mythos

The first Manifestation that staggers for [Str Mod] rounds. That's....absolutely ridiculous. You do realize that when Staggered, dealing even 1 point of damage makes them Unconscious? And then paradoxically, they get a weaker condition when they fail the save twice. What?

The second Manifestation with Grappling.....has nothing to do with anything the Mythos seems to be dealing with. My biggest complain is lack of synchronicity. What story is this supposed to be?

The third Manifestation is extremely odd and requires more precise wording. E.g. what happens if they have eyes, but don't depend on them to see? Things like that.


Pin and Bug Restraint is odd, and the power level is uneven between the different Manifestations. I'll look into it more deeply later.


EDIT:

For Swords as Springs Coiled - why only Full Attacks? How about - whenever you can make multiple attacks?

Interested as to why you felt like you should not be able to do this with TWFing. Is it because of thematic issues more than balance issues?

I believe you might be mistaken as to what Staggered does. Staggered means that your opponent may make either a standard or a move action per round. You are thinking of the Disabled condition.

For TWFing, balance. It is a balance concern for me because there isn't a whole lot stopping someone from having a mundane shortsword in one hand and a +5 longsword in the other and then dumping all their attacks together into one supah strike that'll make an ubercharger green with envy. Add on stuff like Thri Kreen or Garillion's Blessing and it just gets sillier and sillier.

My idea for Swords as Coiled Springs was to make someone with a big hefty greatsword able to make just one attack that was still on par with someone taking a full attack with a similar weapon.

[JKTrickster]

Ah I mixed up cause and effect then. My bad.

EDIT:

To fix that, add in the phrase "even if its nonlethal damage doesn't exactly equal its current hit points"

I still think the stipulation of Full Attacks is odd. Whenever you make multiple attacks seems more organic.

[commander panda]

Each Manifestation seems like a completely different beast that does not connect with the base Mythos the theme of the mythos is fighting dirty. each manifestation is meant to represent a different (and rather typical) form of fighting dishonourably.


The first Manifestation that staggers for [Str Mod] rounds. That's....absolutely ridiculous. You do realize that when Staggered, dealing even 1 point of damage makes them Unconscious? And then paradoxically, they get a weaker condition when they fail the save twice. What? i actually wasn't aware of that until you brought it up yesterday. i though taking him to 1 nonlethal hit point was only the typical way of getting them staggered, not an actual characteristic of the status effect. its one of the things i plan to change. ah, just noticed your response to kymme. i'll work on making it more clear anyway.


The second Manifestation with Grappling.....has nothing to do with anything the Mythos seems to be dealing with. My biggest complain is lack of synchronicity. What story is this supposed to be?ground and pound is phrase that comes from mixed martial arts. it basically means sitting on your opponent's chest and beating on them while they can't get away. its usually considered a dirty move in street fighting (akin to kicking someone when they're down)


The third Manifestation is extremely odd and requires more precise wording. E.g. what happens if they have eyes, but don't depend on them to see? Things like that. fair enough. i'll fix that too.


EDIT:


For TWFing, balance. It is a balance concern for me because there isn't a whole lot stopping someone from having a mundane shortsword in one hand and a +5 longsword in the other and then dumping all their attacks together into one supah strike that'll make an ubercharger green with envy. Add on stuff like Thri Kreen or Garillion's Blessing and it just gets sillier and sillier.
good point.:smallannoyed:
what if i changed it so that you can wield two light weapons, or two hand a single larger weapon?

[JKTrickster]

The problem is that none of the Manifestations interact with the Base Mythos. What you have is "Deal extra damage" and "Oh you can do this too". There need to be a mechanical synchronicity as well as a thematic one. I could literally change the Base Mythos and it wouldn't affect the Manifestations at all. That's not good.


For the first Manifestation, just include the line:

"even if its nonlethal damage doesn't exactly equal its current hit points"

for Staggered effect. That should take care of everything. I think this one is good.


For the second Manifestation - it needs to tie in with the rest of the Mythos. Right now its this completely other option that kind of exists in a vacuum.


For the third Manifestation - I forgot to ask. Do you need to use your hands? What if they're holding two weapons - do they use their feet? Even for the ranged option? (Just wondering if there are any limitations)

[commander panda]

The problem is that none of the Manifestations interact with the Base Mythos. What you have is "Deal extra damage" and "Oh you can do this too". There need to be a mechanical synchronicity as well as a thematic one. I could literally change the Base Mythos and it wouldn't affect the Manifestations at all. That's not good.
the tie in is meant to be that each manifestation enables the base to be used in that situation+an additional benefit befitting the technique used. not every mythos manifestation completely changes the main ability (marching fortress stamina, for instance.)


For the first Manifestation, just include the line:

"even if its nonlethal damage doesn't exactly equal its current hit points"

for Staggered effect. That should take care of everything. I think this one is good.
yeah, that'll work. thanks


For the second Manifestation - it needs to tie in with the rest of the Mythos. Right now its this completely other option that kind of exists in a vacuum.
it ties in in the same way as the others:smallconfused:. it allows you to not-really-sneak-attack your enemy while grappling. i suppose i could get rid of the dual wielding part and make that the advanced manifestation if that helps.


For the third Manifestation - I forgot to ask. Do you need to use your hands? What if they're holding two weapons - do they use their feet? Even for the ranged option? (Just wondering if there are any limitations) it depends how you use it. the basic version is meant to be used by kicking mud at people. in the advanced version i think my intent (you're right that its a bit unclear) was that it increas the kicking range and let it be equipped as a weapon, but now i'm thinking i like it better if the whole advanced manifestation is dependent on throwing muck with your hands.


EDIT: actually, now that i come back and give this mythos a good read through after a couple of months, i'm kinda wondering why i thought i needed the advanced manifestations in the first pace. i mean i like DIRTIER fighting but the other ones seem unnecessary now :smallconfused:. i think i might scrap them in the rewrite. not sure yet..

[JKTrickster]

Ah I see what you mean now.

No wonder you allow the second save to render them Flat Footed. Even though its such a weak condition after something like Staggered or Pinned.

Why not make it so that you can trigger Bonus Damage from additional conditions (depending on the Manifestation you take). That way you don't need any of that "second save makes you Flat Footed" or anything like that. Also it allows you to bypass Uncanny Dodge, or any other ability that prevents you from losing Dex to AC.

So for the first one, you can now trigger bonus damage on those with the Staggered condition. I believe that the ability is currently really too strong. Staggering someone for Strength Mod rounds, on a class that would love to pump Strength, is quite ridiculous from level one onward.

For the second one, just flat out allow the Bellator to deal bonus damage when the target is pinned.

For the third one, I just realized that its "within her reach". So....someone holding a reach weapon let's this work farther away? Is this intentional?

[Sgt. Cookie]

Well, now that the Episkeptis has been migrated and the fluff improved upon, it's time for the SUPER HAPPY FUN STUFF!

Some of the Episkeptis' Mythos are marked as [Guardian] or [Expression].

[Guardian] Mythos cause an actual, physical... thing to appear. Be it an armour clad warrior or a draconic monster. They are treated as Summoned creatures (As per the Summoning subschool), except that if they are "killed" they reform after 5 minutes, rather than 24 hours. The various [Guardian] Mythos allow you to "Craft" them to have them somewhat different roles.

These Mythos tell of the Heroes and Villains of the story. Mighty beings who have been given a form. Heroic knights of legendary prowess and frighting monsters with unknowable powers and such things.

[Expression] Mythos, however, are more "one-shot" abilities that call forth a VERY powerful attack against a large area. They take a serious toll on the Episkeptis, both physically and narratively.

These Mythos tell not of characters, but of powers. The heavenly light that smites a populace, the devastation of a mighty storm and the rage of a beast of flame.

The Episkeptis also possesses a small "pool" of points known as "Narrative Power". The Episkeptis' Narrative Power is equal to (1/2 the number of [Guardian] and [Expression] Mythos the Episkeptis possesses + his Charisma modifier).

Characters that possess [Guardian] or [Expression] Mythos, but do not have any actual Episkeptis levels, possess Narrative Power equal to 1/2 the number of [Guardian] and [Expression] Mythos they possess.

Narrative Power is formed entirely from the Episkeptis' OWN Living Narrative and is used to give the Stories he tells a "presence" in reality.


Narrative Power is used in two ways: Spending on Guardians or Burning on Expressions.

Spending Narrative Power: This is fairly simple. You spend Power, the Guardian appears and the Power is unavailable during this time. When the Guardian is killed or dismissed, the Power is returned to be used again.

Burning Narrative Power: Burning Power, on the other hand, is more complex. Expressions are far more powerful than Guardians, but they also REQUIRE more power in the first place. To do this, the Episkeptis uses his own Living Narrative as fuel, "burning" the pages of his own Story. Burned Power is also unavailable until it is recovered.

The Episkeptis does recover, after a while, but the time it takes varies from Expression to Expression and sometimes it can vary depending on how powerful the Episkeptis decides to make an Expression. Generally speaking, this recovery time can be between 1 Minute to 1 Day or even longer. However, if multiple points of Narrative Power are burned, only 1 point is recovered at a time. (So if he Burned 3 points with a Recovery time of 1 Hour, it would take 3 Hours to recover fully.)

Burning ANY amount of Narrative Power is tiring, causing the Episkeptis to become Fatigued. Burning a large amount of Narrative Power can be debilitating. If the Episkeptis Burns more than half his Narrative Power, he becomes permanently Exhausted until his Narrative Power recovers to above half.


So, thoughts?

[commander panda]

Why not make it so that you can trigger Bonus Damage from additional conditions (depending on the Manifestation you take). That way you don't need any of that "second save makes you Flat Footed" or anything like that. Also it allows you to bypass Uncanny Dodge, or any other ability that prevents you from losing Dex to AC. eh. that seems more complicated than this needs to be. the way things are now, the mythos is fairly straight forward. as for uncanny dodge, i think i can let that one go. i don't want this to be 'sneak attack, but better' and if some rogue is good at dodging cheapshots, good for him.


So for the first one, you can now trigger bonus damage on those with the Staggered condition. I believe that the ability is currently really too strong. Staggering someone for Strength Mod rounds, on a class that would love to pump Strength, is quite ridiculous from level one onward. hmmm yeah, that duration could get pretty crazy. what sounds beater than? int mod rounds or half strength mod rounds?


For the second one, just flat out allow the Bellator to deal bonus damage when the target is pinned.i feel like if i did that, the manifestation would be less compelling to take. its right next to an ability that lets you sack people and an ability that lets you kick dirt in someone's face. by comparison an ability that adds a single line to the grappling rules seems really boring to take (unless you really like grappling.) allowing better weapons while grappling is at least more dramatic.


For the third one, I just realized that its "within her reach". So....someone holding a reach weapon let's this work farther away? Is this intentional?this is strange. i know i made an efcort to address this when i originally wrot this mythos. why is it suddenly so vague :smallconfused:.? i'll change it to "unarmed reach" in the rewrite.

[JKTrickster]

Hmmm just work out a draft first and we can see how it looks.

Does the first Manifestation factor in people who are not proficient with Unarmed Attacks? Do they still trigger an AoO and deal nonlethal damage?

[Kymme]

Well, now that the Episkeptis has been migrated and the fluff improved upon, it's time for the SUPER HAPPY FUN STUFF!

Some of the Episkeptis' Mythos are marked as [Guardian] or [Expression].

[Guardian] Mythos cause an actual, physical... thing to appear. Be it an armour clad warrior or a draconic monster. They are treated as Summoned creatures (As per the Summoning subschool), except that if they are "killed" they reform after 5 minutes, rather than 24 hours. The various [Guardian] Mythos allow you to "Craft" them to have them somewhat different roles.

These Mythos tell of the Heroes and Villains of the story. Mighty beings who have been given a form. Heroic knights of legendary prowess and frighting monsters with unknowable powers and such things.

[Expression] Mythos, however, are more "one-shot" abilities that call forth a VERY powerful attack against a large area. They take a serious toll on the Episkeptis, both physically and narratively.

These Mythos tell not of characters, but of powers. The heavenly light that smites a populace, the devastation of a mighty storm and the rage of a beast of flame.

The Episkeptis also possesses a small "pool" of points known as "Narrative Power". The Episkeptis' Narrative Power is equal to (1/2 the number of [Guardian] and [Expression] Mythos the Episkeptis possesses + his Charisma modifier).

Characters that possess [Guardian] or [Expression] Mythos, but do not have any actual Episkeptis levels, possess Narrative Power equal to 1/2 the number of [Guardian] and [Expression] Mythos they possess.

Narrative Power is formed entirely from the Episkeptis' OWN Living Narrative and is used to give the Stories he tells a "presence" in reality.


Narrative Power is used in two ways: Spending on Guardians or Burning on Expressions.

Spending Narrative Power: This is fairly simple. You spend Power, the Guardian appears and the Power is unavailable during this time. When the Guardian is killed or dismissed, the Power is returned to be used again.

Burning Narrative Power: Burning Power, on the other hand, is more complex. Expressions are far more powerful than Guardians, but they also REQUIRE more power in the first place. To do this, the Episkeptis uses his own Living Narrative as fuel, "burning" the pages of his own Story. Burned Power is also unavailable until it is recovered.

The Episkeptis does recover, after a while, but the time it takes varies from Expression to Expression and sometimes it can vary depending on how powerful the Episkeptis decides to make an Expression. Generally speaking, this recovery time can be between 1 Minute to 1 Day or even longer. However, if multiple points of Narrative Power are burned, only 1 point is recovered at a time. (So if he Burned 3 points with a Recovery time of 1 Hour, it would take 3 Hours to recover fully.)

Burning ANY amount of Narrative Power is tiring, causing the Episkeptis to become Fatigued. Burning a large amount of Narrative Power can be debilitating. If the Episkeptis Burns more than half his Narrative Power, he becomes permanently Exhausted until his Narrative Power recovers to above half.


So, thoughts?

I like it. Solid foundation, great tie-ins to the source material, and a good explanation of how the whole shindig works. My only question now is what these [Guardians] and [Expressions] look like on a mechanical basis.

[JKTrickster]

I like it. Solid foundation, great tie-ins to the source material, and a good explanation of how the whole shindig works. My only question now is what these [Guardians] and [Expressions] look like on a mechanical basis.

I agree - I like the fluff, but it's hard to have concrete thoughts without seeing a concrete class with numbers and abilities attached. Obviously I don't want to sound demanding, because the concept sounds amazing and I know classes take a lot of work and time. Still, it's hard to PEACH concepts.

[Sgt. Cookie]

I'm working on that as we speak, hell check the spoiler for the WiP that explains the basics of Guardians:



The various "Summons" that the Episkeptis uses are known as Guardians.

Whenever you gain a [Guardian] Mythos, you are granted the ability to craft a Guardian, the main source of an Episkeptis; power.

While each Mythos grants a unique "effect" (Such as Healing or Physical Defence), they are all crafted in the same way. For this, we will use The Warrior as an example. First, each segment will be explained, then we will progress to build a "sample" Warrior.

The Warrior


Base Statistics:

Shape: Humanoid; Size: Medium; Speed: 30ft; Attack: Longsword 1d8;

Hit Die: d10; BaB: Full

Base Stats:

Str: 15; Dex: 13; Con: 14; Int: 10; Wis: 12; Cha: 8



Class Level
Hit Dice
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Skill Points
Feats
Base Crafting Pool
Special


1st
1
+1
+2
+0
+2
4(x4)
1
3
ASDASD


2nd
2
+2
+3
+0
+3
8
1
4



3rd
3
+3
+3
+1
+3
12
2
5



4th
4
+4
+4
+1
+4
16
2
7



5th
5
+5
+4
+1
+4
20
2
8



6th
6
+6/+1
+5
+2
+5
24
3
9




Base Statistics: All crafted Summons have their Base Statistics already stated. This is unchangeable as it is inherent to the Guardian. In this example, The Warrior appears as a humanoid wielding a Longsword. (Although the Longsword can be changed via Crafting)

The size of the Hit Dice is also stated here (In this case, d10, as befitting a front line combatant), as is their BaB (Full, 3/4 or 1/2). This becomes important when increasing the Guardian beyond the Table.

Base Stats: Every Guardian has a "preset" ability layout. These ability score layouts are ALWAYS the Elite Array, arranged in the most "effective" order for the current template.

Class Level: Class Level refers to your own levels in Episkeptis, as you grow stronger, so does the Guardian as per the table. The Warrior's table only goes to level 6, at which point it no longer grows stronger by virtue of you levelling up. It can become more powerful than the table's limit, but that is for another time.

Hit Dice: The number of Hit Dice the Guardian possesses. In this case, The Warrior gains a HD every level. Some Mythos, Excellencies and the 18th level ability of Manifest the Warrior can add extra Hit Dice to Guardians. However (Except for some VERY special circumstances), the Hit Dice of a Guardian cannot exceed that of the Episkeptis.

BaB and Saves: BaB has been explained. Every Guardian has two good saves and one poor save. Unlike BaB, this needn't be stated, as it is fairly obvious which is what.

Skills: The Guardian gains Skill Points as an ordinary Character would (Including the bonus for their first Hit Dice, as noted by the "(x4)" notation). By default all Guardians have 4 Skill Points per Hit Dice, but can gain more for having a high Intelligence score. Some Guardians have more Skill Points inherently (Which will be mentioned in their entries), or they can gain more skill points via other methods.

For ease of writing the tables, Intelligence is not factored in.

Feats: Guardians are capable of acquiring Feats. This column simply tells you, at a glance, how many feats a particular Guardian is entitled to.

Base Crafting Points: The Base Crafting Points are a pool of points that the Episkeptis can use to Craft the Guardian, fine tuning it to a particular purpose. This is explicitly a BASE as you can get extra Craft Points from other sources.

Special: Abilities, unique powers, etc all go here.




That stuff there is ALL subject to change, but the short version is:

Guardians are basically Pathfinder's Eidolons. Each Guardian has its own unique abilities, both inherent and optional. You can tweak them somewhat, such as making The Warrior a PAing for full armour clad Knight, or a Dual Wielding, poison slinging Demon, but it is, inherently, still a Warrior.

Expressions are essentially AoE spells taken up to 11. Taken up to 11.

EDIT: You know what, I'mma do a very, VERY WIP for an Expression, to five you an idea.

Rage of the Fire Beast
[Expression]

Select a spot within 100ft. All enemies within 40ft of that point take 1d6 points of Fire Damage per Episkeptis level, Reflex save for half damage.

Enemies that have taken damage continue to take half the damage dealt for 1d3+3 rounds. This damage cannot be mitigated via ordinary means (Such as pouring water over yourself)

Using this Mythos Burns one point of your Narrative Power. However, if you Burn more points, the various Dice upgrade by one step for every point you Burn. (d6 becomes d8, becomes d10, etc. d3 + 3 becomes d4 + 6, d4 + 6 becomes d6 + 9, etc.)

Additionally, for every extra point you burn, you may roll an extra dice.

The initial Burned point only takes one minute to recover, but any extra points Burned recover after one hour.

[commander panda]

Does the first Manifestation factor in people who are not proficient with Unarmed Attacks? Do they still trigger an AoO and deal nonlethal damage?

no. but it probably should. i'll think about it.

[7th son of sons]

I've got about Half of the (STILL!!!!) unnamed Author Anthol ready, still fishing for some Ideas. Especially for those... Sempiternal Mythos.... shudder shudder

[Omoikane13]

http://i.imgur.com/dU8rgJC.png

Long-time lurker, first-time poster, so feel free to nix this if I'm stepping into the territory of others. Otherwise, I present the banner for the Archequin, Mythic Trickster!

Besides that, I'm looking forward to all these Mythos classes getting finished, and would be willing to post some tests if I can get it together.

[JennTora]

Well, Xefas is making a mythic rogue called an Ophidian, but it's more darkness themed apparently. It also hasn't been made yet so I say go for it and make your archequin. I look forward to seeing it.

[Primal Fury]

*snip*

Long-time lurker, first-time poster, so feel free to nix this if I'm stepping into the territory of others. Otherwise, I present the banner for the Archequin, Mythic Trickster!

Besides that, I'm looking forward to all these Mythos classes getting finished, and would be willing to post some tests if I can get it together.
Might I suggest using the Moon as the source of these Mythos? I've written quite a lot of fluff for her (more than any other narrative at least), and I think this would fit her much better than being a Dreamweaver.

[JennTora]

Might I suggest using the Moon as the source of these Mythos? I've written quite a lot of fluff for her (more than any other narrative at least), and I think this would fit her much better than being a Dreamweaver.

Was that the somnari? This doesn't mean you're stopping that one though, right? Cause the mythos really made me want to play someone who slept through all their fights and won.

[Primal Fury]

Was that the somnari? This doesn't mean you're stopping that one though, right? Cause the mythos really made me want to play someone who slept through all their fights and won.
Not exactly. While the Mythos were fun to make, I believe the Moon is better as a Trickster. The mechanics can still be used for something else though, as I still have all of them.

[Omoikane13]

Might I suggest using the Moon as the source of these Mythos? I've written quite a lot of fluff for her (more than any other narrative at least), and I think this would fit her much better than being a Dreamweaver.

Thank you very much, as this was one of the big things I was stuck on. I'd be happy to use the Moon, but must second the thought that I wouldn't want it to hurt the Somnari.


Well, Xefas is making a mythic rogue called an Ophidian, but it's more darkness themed apparently. It also hasn't been made yet so I say go for it and make your archequin. I look forward to seeing it.

Yeah, I'm gonna be careful not to step on the Ophidian's toes. It'll probably help that the Ophidian is more rogue-like, while the Archequin will cover an area of trickster-ness which encompasses the bard as well.

[Kymme]

*Guardians*

Guardians are basically Pathfinder's Eidolons. Each Guardian has its own unique abilities, both inherent and optional. You can tweak them somewhat, such as making The Warrior a PAing for full armour clad Knight, or a Dual Wielding, poison slinging Demon, but it is, inherently, still a Warrior.

Not half bad. I like what you have going here, but there are a few things I want to clarify. Namely, that they won't overshadow other dedicated PC fighters. They don't seem to have access to Mythos, so that doesn't seem like a huge problem, but still keep in mind how powerful you're making them. That was why the original Summoner was Tier 2, after all.


Rage of the Fire Beast

This, while impressive and strong, isn't that open-ended. If you're gonna be spending one of your Mythos known on this ability it ought to be worth every penny. Maybe give it some more... passive benefits? Like basic manifestations for getting fire resistance or a low damage flame ray or maybe a feat or two. Just something to give this Mythos more to do other than IMMA FIRIN MY LAZOR.

[Primal Fury]

Thank you very much, as this was one of the big things I was stuck on. I'd be happy to use the Moon, but must second the thought that I wouldn't want it to hurt the Somnari.
Excellent. Feel free to PM me if and/or when you need some fluff or someone to bounce ideas off of. I am quite eager to see what you have. And don't worry about the Somnari. Worst case scenario, I'll just change the fluff and make it fit a different narrative.

[Vauron]

Eh, I'm not so sure more would be needed. Compared with Overwhelming Dragon-Suspire, Rage of the Fire Beast doesn't seem that bad. ODS only does (half your hitdice)d8 in damage, although you can make an attack role instead of offering a reflex save and you can change what type of damage you do, along with a few small rider effects. At level 8, for instance, RotFB will deal 10 more damage on average if we assume you spend no additional Narrative Power.

'Narrow' Mythos also aren't unknown. Impudence-Rewarding Gesture, Fulminating Lightning Epiphany, and Inevitable Sunset Strike are all relatively narrow to my mind.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Not half bad. I like what you have going here, but there are a few things I want to clarify. Namely, that they won't overshadow other dedicated PC fighters. They don't seem to have access to Mythos, so that doesn't seem like a huge problem, but still keep in mind how powerful you're making them. That was why the original Summoner was Tier 2, after all.

Guardians do not have access to Mythos. Like, at all.

"Overshadowing" kinda depends on some things. Assuming mid-op, The Warrior isn't going to overshadow a Warblade or a dedicated PAing Barbarian and it certainly won't be overshadowing the Bellator. It will, however probably match or possibly outmatch an actual Fighter (The PC class). At least at low levels (Then again, if you're playing a Fighter when the Bellator is most likely available, you don't really have the right to complain). The Warrior IS capped at 6 Hit Dice, after all, and increasing Hit Dice above and beyond the Table is reserved for higher level Mythos and Excellencies.

Other Mythos can extend tables, granting new powers and abilities to earlier Mythos, however, such as upgrading The Warrior into The Soldier.


This, while impressive and strong, isn't that open-ended. If you're gonna be spending one of your Mythos known on this ability it ought to be worth every penny. Maybe give it some more... passive benefits? Like basic manifestations for getting fire resistance or a low damage flame ray or maybe a feat or two. Just something to give this Mythos more to do other than IMMA FIRIN MY LAZOR.

Hm. Like I said, that's so much a WiP, it's more of a concept with numbers attached. They WILL get other stuff, such as some defences or attacks. To be honest, having it grant Fire Resistance wasn't something that crossed my mind.

[Kymme]

Guardians do not have access to Mythos. Like, at all.

Wonderful! That's good to hear.


"Overshadowing" kinda depends on some things. Assuming mid-op, The Warrior isn't going to overshadow a Warblade or a dedicated PAing Barbarian and it certainly won't be overshadowing the Bellator. It will, however probably match or possibly outmatch an actual Fighter (The PC class). At least at low levels (Then again, if you're playing a Fighter when the Bellator is most likely available, you don't really have the right to complain). The Warrior IS capped at 6 Hit Dice, after all, and increasing Hit Dice above and beyond the Table is reserved for higher level Mythos and Excellencies.

Outmatching the tier 5 fighter is kind of a given, honestly. But in that case, carry on.


Other Mythos can extend tables, granting new powers and abilities to earlier Mythos, however, such as upgrading The Warrior into The Soldier.

Sounds awesome.


Hm. Like I said, that's so much a WiP, it's more of a concept with numbers attached. They WILL get other stuff, such as some defences or attacks. To be honest, having it grant Fire Resistance wasn't something that crossed my mind.

That's all well and good. I just thought I'd give my two cents while the class is in its infancy. I have Persona on the brain, and I was remembering how sometimes Personas with fire attacks also made you resistant to fire.

Just my thought process, though.

[Nanoblack]

Hm. Like I said, that's so much a WiP, it's more of a concept with numbers attached. They WILL get other stuff, such as some defences or attacks. To be honest, having it grant Fire Resistance wasn't something that crossed my mind.

Not that my opinion is worth much, but it seems like the expressions feel somewhat disconnected from the theme of the rest of the class. I understand that they aren't necessarily one trick ponies with summoning being their only talent, but there should probably be some sort of connection to the summons and the expressions. A few examples below:

For the fire expression, you could charge a summon with fire energy for a base amount of damage that ramps up over several turns before it detonates. As a side effect of the welling of energy, the summon could gain bonus fire damage to its attacks that increases with every round and forces it to attack every round.

If you were to do an ice expression, you could imbue a summon with ice that forces it to only utilize grapple checks in combat. Once it successfully grabs someone, it detonates and locks them both in solid ice for x number of rounds. Adjacent squares are entangled unless they succeed at a reflex save.

Additionally, I think the recharge time for the narrative points might be a little too lax. If you want them to seem like amazing acts of desperation, it should actually force the player to make a decision as to whether the cost outweighs the benefits.

Once again, just my opinion, take what you want and leave the rest.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Don't sell yourself shot, those aren't bad ideas (In fact, they're brilliant! They miiiight see use later. *Shifty eyes*), but they're not what Expressions are about. Expressons aren't just "Point at an area. That area is now ON FIRE!!!!", you still summon SOMETHING, it's just that what they do is far more... intense. But they cannot be sustained.

Perhaps this fluff might help explain:

In a time long past, in a kingdom now forgotten, people say, was a great beast. It's coming was like that of the sun, brightening the sky and scorching the land with it's passing. Armies were useless, magic was powerless and even devils from the hottest parts of hell burned to ash before it. What form it had none can say with any certainty. Some say it took the form of a wolf or lion. Others say it was shapeless, as flame is. But what they DO say for certain is that the Beast of Flame became angry.

The reasons for this are as varied as there are stars in the sky. One tale goes that a simple orphan boy tricked it into jumping into a nearby lake, hoping to quench the flames. Another says that a band of warriors of the King's guard provoked it and lured it into icy wastelands. While another says that a mighty Wizard tried to dominate the beast. All the stories say that each method appeared to be successful. At least at first. The lake began to boil into nothingness, the wasteland melted away and the Wizard lost control of it. And the Beast was angry. Very angry. And its rage was mighty, burning the Kingdom away. Leaving nothing but ash and cinders.

Whichever version of the tale you know, the rage of the Beast of Flame still resonates within you. Red hot anger flowing through your veins, waiting to be let out. With a few simple words, the Beast of Flame is made real. Its form, its anger and its insurmountable power. And it is all yours to command. But unleashing the Beast of Flame is not without cost, the story of the Beast, its fury, cannot be satisfied by simply "being".

As it burns your foes, so too it burns part of you, as fuel. Taking of your story, to make its rage real. No being can stand this for long, forcing you, in pain, to dismiss the Beast as quickly as your anger made it real.

[Kymme]

Don't sell yourself shot, those aren't bad ideas (In fact, they're brilliant! They miiiight see use later. *Shifty eyes*), but they're not what Expressions are about. Expressons aren't just "Point at an area. That area is now ON FIRE!!!!", you still summon SOMETHING, it's just that what they do is far more... intense. But they cannot be sustained.

Perhaps this fluff might help explain:

*wonder-fluff*

That's pretty sweet. No, not sweet. Amazin'. I can't wait to see more.

[Tanuki Tales]

So, I'm putting my GM hat for the first time in years IRL to be a player again and I was thinking of rolling a Termach. Do you guys have any advice on optimizing one of these?

The game will have 3 to 4 people (probably 3 more than 4) and will be one of the following adventure paths (the GM hasn't said which):

Skull and Shackles
Curse of the Crimson Throne
Council of Thieves
Kingmaker

[JKTrickster]

Hmm what level do you start at with those modules?

I think the Teramach is a pretty straight forward class. He has a lot of Mythos sure, but none of them are really subpar. Just choose the flavor of "RAGE. HATE. MURDER." that you want and go with that.

What advice are you looking for exactly?

[vasharanpaladin]

Think they're all level 1 start, Xefas played some of Kingmaker with a teramach...

Also, can we start a thing to have "accepted" mythos from others on the top page for each class? Just credit whoever actually wrote it, of course. Twin-Souled Berserker Fuselage Extrusion is something of an oddball, but doesn't really deserve to be buried, nor do any of Amechra's submissions nor my own Incarnadine Hell-Furnace Atrocity, if they're all of a state to be used with the rest...

[JKTrickster]

I think the issue is that Xefas would have to edit the posts in order to do that, no?

I tried clearing my edits to two of the Bellator's Mythos with him but got no reply. Not sure if he saw my PM yet.

[Nanoblack]

Also, can we start a thing to have "accepted" mythos from others on the top page for each class? Just credit whoever actually wrote it, of course.


I think the issue is that Xefas would have to edit the posts in order to do that, no?

I tried clearing my edits to two of the Bellator's Mythos with him but got no reply. Not sure if he saw my PM yet.

Don't we have the random mythos document linked on the first page of this thread for that? It seems rather imposing to Xefas to ask he edit in the menagerie of community made mythos to his homebrew threads. There's also the potential to create a homebrew mythos compendium thread yourself and sort the data however you see fit.

[JKTrickster]

Oh yeah I totally agree with that point - it would be weird to ask him to specifically add our Mythos to each class.

I'm hoping my PM didn't seem rude. I merely intended them to be suggestions because one of the Mythos seemed to be a little underpowered and the other was just incomplete.

[Tanuki Tales]

Hmm what level do you start at with those modules?

As pointed out, level 1.


I think the Teramach is a pretty straight forward class. He has a lot of Mythos sure, but none of them are really subpar. Just choose the flavor of "RAGE. HATE. MURDER." that you want and go with that.

Oh, no, I didn't assume any of them were trap options, but there are probably ones accessible at low levels that are better saved for higher levels and ones that make lower levels more of a cake walk if prioritized.


What advice are you looking for exactly?

Suggested race and feat choices, gear to look out for, stuff like that. I'm decent at optimizing, but it never hurts to get outside the echo chamber.

[JKTrickster]

Hmm well obviously you want to start with the All-Consuming Rampage Release Mythos. I would honestly go for Torn Muscle Ignorance because Friendship is Fury probably wouldn't work unless you had the right team to take advantage of it.

After that it depends. Fury is Freedom is honestly better at higher levels than lower levels. Dismembering Gorebeast Fury is fun to play with and gives you damage, but not much else. Casting Stones at Sheep gives you a nice Ranged option. God-Smashing Blow gives you some nice control, but not as much damage. Raging Behemoth Charge lets you charge like a madman if you're into that kind of combat, but it has its ups and downs (the normal issues with charging, esp at level 1).

Since the Teramach depends on Unarmed Strikes, you can probably optimize that for damage. Items and feats that boost Unarmed Strikes will naturally boost your damage considerably.

If you were starting higher, this actually wouldn't be that necessary. Around level 3, with the Sacrosanct Blood-Titan Idol Adoption, you can use weapons just fine. That opens up the possibility of two handing something with Power Attack, but that is 2 levels away.

Either way, treat it as a Barbarian/Monk hybrid. The Mythos class is versatile enough that you really can't go wrong. And honestly out of all the Mythos class, the Teramach has the most "official" support and I feel like its the most straightforward to play. Nothing much to worry about.

[Tanuki Tales]

Hmm well obviously you want to start with the All-Consuming Rampage Release Mythos. I would honestly go for Torn Muscle Ignorance because Friendship is Fury probably wouldn't work unless you had the right team to take advantage of it.

After that it depends. Fury is Freedom is honestly better at higher levels than lower levels. Dismembering Gorebeast Fury is fun to play with and gives you damage, but not much else. Casting Stones at Sheep gives you a nice Ranged option. God-Smashing Blow gives you some nice control, but not as much damage. Raging Behemoth Charge lets you charge like a madman if you're into that kind of combat, but it has its ups and downs (the normal issues with charging, esp at level 1).

All Consuming and God-Smashing seem like what I'd choose, if only because Godplate-Piercing Strike would be nice to get at level 2 to start building up Mythos points.


Since the Teramach depends on Unarmed Strikes, you can probably optimize that for damage. Items and feats that boost Unarmed Strikes will naturally boost your damage considerably.

If you were starting higher, this actually wouldn't be that necessary. Around level 3, with the Sacrosanct Blood-Titan Idol Adoption, you can use weapons just fine. That opens up the possibility of two handing something with Power Attack, but that is 2 levels away.

I...don't really understand what Sacrosanct Blood-Titan Idol Adoption does exactly.


Either way, treat it as a Barbarian/Monk hybrid. The Mythos class is versatile enough that you really can't go wrong. And honestly out of all the Mythos class, the Teramach has the most "official" support and I feel like its the most straightforward to play. Nothing much to worry about.

So look up the Pathfinder handbooks for Barbarian and Monk as guides (like I thought). Gotcha.

[Adam1949]

I've got a Teramach player in my play-group, NosferatuZodd; you might want to ask him how he feels about the playstyle.


I...don't really understand what Sacrosanct Blood-Titan Idol Adoption does exactly.


Basically, what it does is allow you to use a weapon that's been thrown on the ground or abandoned as itself, and not treat it like an improvised light, 1-handed, or 2-handed weapon like Primitive Brutality would normally treat such a thing as. The various other manifestations improve upon that to make the Teramach more 'stylish' in his murder-sprees.

[The_Final_Stand]

So, for example, while with one hand you cave a man's skull in, with the other you are ripping his sword from his very suddenly inert fingers and using it to bisect another with heretofore unseen skill, that sort of thing?

The SRD notes that improvised weapons are "objects not crafted to be weapons (that) nonetheless see use in combat". Manufactured weapons are, by definition, not that, so Sacrosanct Blood-Titan Idol Adoption doesn't actually seem to do anything rules-wise. Unless my florid description above is how it actually works, or something.

[silphael]

Well, it's more like that, without that mythos, whenever you pick a real weapon, you're not holding it by the blade and bashing people with the hilt. Don't forget that the Teramach has no weapon proficiencies.

[vasharanpaladin]

Well, it's more like that, without that mythos, whenever you pick a real weapon, you're not holding it by the blade and bashing people with the hilt. Don't forget that the Teramach has no weapon proficiencies.

I was under the impression they're proficient with unarmed strikes and improvised weapons, with the latter contingent on picking up the object in that same scene?

In which case, Sacrosanct Blood-Titan Idol Adoption adds weapons you pick up to that last clause: You gain proficiency with the dead guy's spiked chain during the encounter you picked it up, and then it's useless to you afterward.

[Xefas]

So, for example, while with one hand you cave a man's skull in, with the other you are ripping his sword from his very suddenly inert fingers and using it to bisect another with heretofore unseen skill, that sort of thing?

The SRD notes that improvised weapons are "objects not crafted to be weapons (that) nonetheless see use in combat". Manufactured weapons are, by definition, not that, so Sacrosanct Blood-Titan Idol Adoption doesn't actually seem to do anything rules-wise. Unless my florid description above is how it actually works, or something.

The idea is that a "manufactured weapon" vs "improvised weapon" is subjective. If, for example, I started mass manufacturing mugs and tankards and marketing them as weapons, do they suddenly count as "manufactured weapons"? Do drunken masters suddenly lose proficiency in their improvised beer steins because someone else sees them as a legitimate manufactured weapon intended for use in combat?

In my opinion, that would be silly.

The Teramach doesn't see a greatsword as a weapon intended for combat. He sees it as a curiously shaped hunk of iron that the meat creatures he preys upon have a fondness for. That said, when wielded that way, as an improvised weapon, it uses the rules for improvised weapons (such as calculating its damage by weight; which is a nerf), not the rules for greatswords. Because he's not using it like a sword; he's flailing it around like a shattered moose femur - it just happens to be sorta sharp on one side.

Anyone can do this. It's the same rule you would use if a fighter wanted to hold his sword by the blade and bash people with the hilt like a dumbass.

Sacrosanct Blood Titan Idol Adoption allows you to, under certain circumstances, use some of the rules for properly using a manufactured weapon as a manufactured weapon while still wielding it like an improvised weapon.

And then you can use it with Impromptu Quick-Time Inspiration to have Kratos kill a nearby hoplite, pick up his spear, then mash the [X] button to perform a full-Power-Attack Emerald Razor through the brain of a charging minotaur.

[commander panda]

i'm just going to be the pedantic history nazi here and point out that holding your sword by the blade and bashing faces with the hilt is a totally legit centuries old combat style. hell, if D&D swordfighting were realistic, bastard and greatswords would be bludgeoning/piercing/slashing/tripping/grappling weapons. :smallannoyed::smalltongue:

anyway. i finaly have time to work on mythos again, so here's the new version of F*** Chivalry. i'm still working on renaming the mythos to be a bit more dignified, so bear with me on that. if anyone has ideas for the names of the basic manifestations, i'm all ears (i'm looking for names that give a hint as to what the ability actually does.)

The Crooked Fist Of Pragmatism
prerequisites: -

The Bellator has become adept at attacking her foes in ways they can neither easily predict nor easily defend against. Whenever the Bellator hits an enemy who is denied their dexterity bonus to their AC, she deals a number of d4s in bonus damage based on her class level. This maneuver is not precision damage and works on enemies that would normally be immune to techniques like sneak attack.
This mythos is considered equivalent to sneak attack for the purpose of qualifying for feats, prestige classes and for determining her effectiveness against enemies with uncanny dodge.


Bellator level
Bonus Die


Level 1
1d4


Level 3
2d4


Level 5
3d4


Level 7
4d4


Level 9
5d4


Level 11
6d4


Level 13
7d4


Level 15
8d4


Level 17
9d4


Level 19
10d4



basic
Nerve-Ending Confluence Crush
prerequisites: -
The Bellator knows very well where to hit a man so it hurts.
As a standard action (but not part of a full attack) the Bellator may preform a special unarmed attack to strike her opponent where it really really hurts. If the Belletor is not proficient with unarmed strikes, the attack invokes AoO's and deal nonlethal damage as normal. No damage is dealt if the attack lands successfully, but the target must make a fort save or be rendered flat footed for a number of rounds equal to half the Bellator's strength modifier, even if its nonlethal damage doesn't exactly equal its current hit points. If the Bellator kicks him again before he recovers, the time is reset and he is also staggerd, even if its nonlethal damage doesn't exactly equal its current hit points.
This attack can only be used on enemies with a discernible anatomy who feel pain. undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures are unaffected.
despite the name, this strike is not limited to nut shots, and is therefore not limited to men. If used against a women, the Bellator might just give her a strong kick to the stomach, so she keels over.

Ground And Pound
prerequisites: -
The bellator gains Improved Grappling as a bonus feat.
Once the Bellator has pinned an enemy to the floor during a grapple, she can attack with light and one handed weapons, draw weapons while pinning and escape another's grapple while pinning. Attacks while grappling no longer incur a -4 penalty. Any round in which the Bellator strikes a pinned and struggling opponent, they take a penalty on their escape artist and grapple checks, equal to her strength modifier.
Finally, while the Bellator's opponent is pinned, he does not gain his dexterity modifier to his AC against her attacks.

Concealed Sword In Silt Offensive
prerequisites: -
If the Bellator is standing on loose and moveable ground (sand, mud, gravel, sewage, water, ect) she can kick the loose material into an opponents square within her natural reach, avoidable with a reflex saving throw, as an attack action. If her opponent fails the save the muck gets in his eyes, and everyone he sees is treated as having partial concealment from him until he takes a full round to remove the grime (this provokes an attack of opportunity.) the target needs to actually rely on their eyes to be effected.
Obviously, if the material used would have other negative effects on contact with the Bellator's target, such as acid, they are also applied if the attack hits.
The Bellator's enemy does not gain his dexterity modifier to his AC until he clears his eyes.

[The_Final_Stand]

For the groin attack: Nerve-Ending Confluence Crush. (as you are crushing a collection of nerve endings, and it typically ends their "nerve").

[commander panda]

For the groin attack: Nerve-Ending Confluence Crush. (as you are crushing a collection of nerve endings, and it typically ends their "nerve").

yes. oh my god yes i love that.

[Nanoblack]

Or maybe something like "bravado crushing maneuver"?

EDIT: And in regards to the level one Teramach optimization question, well Xefas has done a pretty spot on job of making everything nice and not necessary. You have a decently powerful frame to build around, so unless the remaining party members are overtly min-maxed, you should be fine taking nearly any route you so choose depending on your preference in brutality.

My genuine advise would be to look through your sourcebooks for feats and items you would otherwise be too feat/resource starved to take normally. Maybe take Wild talent and up the walls so you can lure your enemy into thinking climbing trees would make them safe. Only the last thing they see is a raging behemoth sprinting up a tree and BULLRUSHING THEM INTO THE SKY!

[Sgt. Cookie]

Would you like a story? One of corruption? One of revenge? Well, I know of such a tale:

("Crafting" abilities have not been added yet)



Of The Things That Lurk In Darkness

There once was a town guardsman, returning home. Today, he thought, was a good day. He had just returned from the home of a man. This man had fallen on hard times, you see, but he had a great many items of value. The man was trying to sell them off, to various merchants but he was not having tremendous luck. He had a daughter, too, and they were both hungry. Of course what few items he was able to sell did not provide much, so he was forced to steal food to feed them both.

He was a thief now and the rulers of the town did not approve of thievery, whatever the reason. So they sent a guardsman out to arrest him. This guardsman however, was a greedy man. Upon entering the house he saw the unsold items his greed got the better of him. The man was there, but his daughter was not. The man was a thief and the guardsman was only defending himself, he would later say. With none to refute his claims that he was attacked first. The man was a thief and his possessions were no longer his after death. The lion's share of the many valuables went to the guardsman for "bravery in the act of enforcing order" while the rest were divvied between his fellows.

Several weeks passed by and the guardsman was happy with the gold gained from selling what he "earned". One day, there was a small commotion in town and he investigated. It was a small scuffle, a drunken fight between patrons. What happened next, few would dare retell. The guardsman drew his sword and slew the two drunken brawlers and then, bloodied sword in hand, rushed towards the crowd. With screams and sword strikes the guardsman's rampage soon caught the attention of other guards who soon rushed to the scene.

Talk did not calm the guardsman, reason did not sway him and his companions could not subdue him. They had no other action but to kill him. But there was shock in the guardsman's killer, for he looked upon the shadow of the guardsman and saw a thing trail away. A thing that, the guardsman's killer knew, was what forced the guardsman's hand.

A distance away, in view of the slaughter of the guardsman, was the daughter. The daughter of the man the guardsman killed out of greed and avarice. The shadow-thing slinked towards her, stopping at her shadow not to influence but to whisper three words. "It is done". The daughter smiled and walked away. But from then on, the girl's shadow was... different, smaller. Whenever people looked upon her shadow, they saw that it was missing an arm. A payment, for the shadow. For the revenge it helped her accomplish.

The Shadow



Base Statistics:

Shape: Amorphous; Size: Medium; Speed: 30ft (Fly); Attack: 1d6 Cold, Touch Attack

Hit Dice: D8; BAB: Average (3/4);

Base Stats:

Str: - Dex: 14 Con: - Int: 12 Wis: 13 Cha: 15



Class Level
Hit Dice
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Skill Points
Feats
Base Crafting Pool
Special


1st
1
+0
+0
+2
+2
4(x4)
1
3
Undead Traits, Incorporeal, Unholy Toughness, Chilling Touch 1d6, Telepathic Link


2nd
1
+0
+0
+2
+2
4
1
4
Shadow Rider


3rd
2
+1
+0
+3
+3
8
1
5
Chilling Touch, 2d6


4th
3
+2
+1
+3
+3
12
2
7
Sensory Link


5th
3
+2
+1
+3
+3
12
2
8



6th
4
+3
+1
+4
+4
16
2
9
Chilling Touch, 3d6


7th
5
+3
+1
+4
+4
20
2
11



8th
6
+4
+2
+5
+5
24
3
12
Chilling Touch, 4d6


9th
6
+4
+2
+5
+5
24
3
13
Shadow Possession


10th
7
+5
+2
+5
+5
28
3
15



11th
8
+6/+1
+2
+6
+6
32
3
16
Chilling Touch, 5d6


12th
8
+6/+1
+2
+6
+6
32
3
17



13th
9
+6/+1
+3
+6
+6
36
4
19



14th
10
+7/+2
+3
+7
+7
40
4
20
Chilling Touch, 6d6


15th
10
+7/+2
+3
+7
+7
40
4
21






Special:

Undead Traits: The Shadow possesses all the traits of an Undead creature. However, as it not actually an Undead Creature, any ability, spell, effect, etc, that targets or affects Undead does not affect The Shadow.

Incorporeal: The Shadow possesses the Incorporeal Subtype.

Unholy Toughness (Ex): The Shadow possesses the Unholy Toughness special quality, allowing it to use it's Charisma Modifier in place of it Constitution for Hit Points.

Chilling Touch (Su): At The Shadow's first Hit Dice, it gains a Touch Attack that deals 1d6 Cold Damage. At The Shadow's 2nd Hit Dice, and every even numbered Hit Dice thereafter, the damage increases by 1d6.

Telepathic Link (Su): The Shadow maintains a permanent link to The Episkesptis that summoned it. This is identical to the "Telepathy" special ability, except that it only links The Shadow and The Episkeptis and it functions regardless of distance.

Shadow Rider (Ex): The Shadow may, as a free action, latch onto a single, adjacent shadow cast by a living creature. The Shadow does not become "invisible", the creature's shadow appears to gain "something", such as an extra limb or a large lump. The Shadow may attempt a Disguise Check to hide in the shadow.

Sensory Link (Su): As a Standard Action, The Shadow can attempt to merge it's own senses with that of it's Host. The Host must make a Will Save to prevent this merging. If the host fails the save, then whatever the Host senses, the Shadow does as well.

The Host must be a Humanoid for this ability to function.

Shadow Possession (Su): If The Shadow has successfully linked with the senses of its host, it may, as a attempt to gain complete control over its host. This action also forces a Will Save (However, if The Shadow's Charisma Modifier is higher than that of the Episkeptis, it may use its own Charisma Modifier on this save). If the host fails, The Shadow has complete control over the host's actions, as per the Dominate Person spell. (Including Will Saves to do things against its nature or committing self destructive acts.)


On a side note, writing this Mythos has given me an idea as to what I'll be doing once I finish the Episkeptis.

An Episkeptis/Olethrofex Theurge that subverts the Episkeptis' Mythos into horror stories.

[JKTrickster]

For the overall Mythos name, I would recommend something like "Underhanded Pragmatic Technique" - much less specific than being "Anti-Chivalry" which has a lot of connotations to it.

For the first Manifestation, I still think its problematic that it goes from Staggered -> Shaken and Denied Dex to AC. Since you can only use a Standard Action for one attack, it doesn't really make sense to waste TWO whole rounds to try and get them Shaken and Denied Dex to AC. In most cases, you would take the Staggered effect and then proceed to whale on your opponent while they struggle to fight back or run away.

I think it would be better if it was Flat Footed (stronger than Denied to Dex, drop the Shaken) -> Staggered (the stronger condition of the two)

Second Manifestation is okay. Ground and pound isn't a bad name either.

Third Manifestation could probably have a name change.

Hmm unarmed reach is an odd choice of words. Would natural reach be better?

The wording can probably be cleaned up. Right now....what type of action is this supposed to be? I can do it as a Standard Action so I don't actually attack or deal damage right? So what happens when I do it as part of a Full Attack? Does it just get tacked on for free? That seems odd - if should at least penalize the attack rolls a bit to compensate.

[Nanoblack]

Okay guys, I've got a concept for an excellency, but I feel like it's either too wordy or I haven't covered enough bases. The mechanical effect of it would allow the character to ignore environmental factors like extremes of temperatures and would allow it to breathe in any atmosphere. There's a recoverable resource that the class uses that I posted in the previous thread that I could use to bolster the effect into ignoring more lethal issues.

The fluff of the class is that the character has an internalized version of what reality should be, and forces its version into existence via mythos. Therefore, the fluff of the excellency would be that this person has their personal "happy place" that they go to when the going gets tough. Using their abilities as a mythos character, they bring that happy place into reality around them to ignore these external factors.

So what could I add to make it more comprehensive/less wall-of-text-y?

Working name is "Personal Nirvana De-Containment".

[Sgt. Cookie]

Well, I'd first make it clear exactly what the Excellency covers naturally (Does a massive thunderstorm count as an "Environmental factor", for instance?). How do you define "breathe"? Do you mean actual gasses? What about a lack of oxygen? What does a "more lethal issue" mean?

[Kymme]

Also, can we start a thing to have "accepted" mythos from others on the top page for each class? Just credit whoever actually wrote it, of course. Twin-Souled Berserker Fuselage Extrusion is something of an oddball, but doesn't really deserve to be buried, nor do any of Amechra's submissions nor my own Incarnadine Hell-Furnace Atrocity, if they're all of a state to be used with the rest...

I'd be happy to put those on the Random Mythos doc, if you could provide links to their posts.


Breaking The Chains Of Chivalry

I'm liking it! I still think that Discarding Quixotic Ideals ought to be a name for a Mythos, but to each their own. Would you like me to put this on the Mythos doc?


Of The Things that Lurk In Darkness

Splendiforus! (Though, if each Mythos has a little story attached, the Episkeptis is gonna be the longest class, like, ever. :smalltongue:) It's good to see a more passive summon, though it makes me wonder a bit. How long do these guys last, exactly? Can you summon a [Guardian] and have it last forever?


Okay guys, I've got a concept for an excellency, but I feel like it's either too wordy or I haven't covered enough bases. The mechanical effect of it would allow the character to ignore environmental factors like extremes of temperatures and would allow it to breathe in any atmosphere. There's a recoverable resource that the class uses that I posted in the previous thread that I could use to bolster the effect into ignoring more lethal issues.

The fluff of the class is that the character has an internalized version of what reality should be, and forces its version into existence via mythos. Therefore, the fluff of the excellency would be that this person has their personal "happy place" that they go to when the going gets tough. Using their abilities as a mythos character, they bring that happy place into reality around them to ignore these external factors.

So what could I add to make it more comprehensive/less wall-of-text-y?

Working name is "Personal Nirvana De-Containment".

The class seems interesting, but I'd have to see the text you have atm to help you thin it out.

[Nanoblack]

Well, I'd first make it clear exactly what the Excellency covers naturally (Does a massive thunderstorm count as an "Environmental factor", for instance?). How do you define "breathe"? Do you mean actual gasses? What about a lack of oxygen? What does a "more lethal issue" mean?


Well the goal is to allow whoever buys this to exist in hostile environments, and the trouble I'm having is how general the term is. In my mind, it would ignore a strong wind, but not a lightning strike from a call lightning spell. Maybe limit it exclusively natural effects? That seems like it would complicate things even more.

By breathing, I meant any form of respiration that would cause drowning if a creature were to stop, so maybe have the effect based on whatever the users natural environment is? As for more lethal, I meant things like naturally occurring lava or acidic lakes, vacuums, and The River Styx. I could just turn it into a fantastic mythos and allow them to reactively spend resources to gain temporary elemental resistance I suppose.

EDIT: Current mythos text that I've been revising as I peruse the forums-

Personal Nirvana De-containment: Upon gaining this excellency, you constantly find yourself in your happy place. You ignore environmental based effects such as extremes of temperature unless they explicitly deal damage. This immunity extends to naturally occurring weather conditions such as high winds (though not debris contained therein) and mobility reducing terrain. Additionally, you are always considered to be in a perfectly breathable environment despite the presence of factors that might otherwise contaminate your environment like inhaled poisons, being underwater/engulfed in an ooze, ect.

[Sgt. Cookie]

What else is a story teller supposed to do if not tell stories? :smallwink:

But to answer your question, they last for as long as you damn well please. You want The Shadow trailing you around forever and ever? Sure, go for it. I ain't gonna stop ya.

Technically speaking, you could even sustain an [Expression], if you wanted. But doing so would not only kill you within moments, but erase the fact that you ever existed.

[commander panda]

For the overall Mythos name, I would recommend something like "Underhanded Pragmatic Technique" - much less specific than being "Anti-Chivalry" which has a lot of connotations to it. i actually was considering changing that name, since it seems a bit more aesthetically simplistic than the others, but it's not my main concern right now. i'll definitly look into it later.


For the first Manifestation, I still think its problematic that it goes from Staggered -> Shaken and Denied Dex to AC. Since you can only use a Standard Action for one attack, it doesn't really make sense to waste TWO whole rounds to try and get them Shaken and Denied Dex to AC. In most cases, you would take the Staggered effect and then proceed to whale on your opponent while they struggle to fight back or run away.

I think it would be better if it was Flat Footed (stronger than Denied to Dex, drop the Shaken) -> Staggered (the stronger condition of the two)
arrrrrrga- ok, fine i see you're point. i'll give that a try.


Third Manifestation could probably have a name change.
definitely. i'm still shopping around for a new one.


Hmm unarmed reach is an odd choice of words. Would natural reach be better?that works


The wording can probably be cleaned up. Right now....what type of action is this supposed to be? I can do it as a Standard Action so I don't actually attack or deal damage right? So what happens when I do it as part of a Full Attack? Does it just get tacked on for free? That seems odd - if should at least penalize the attack rolls a bit to compensate.i don't know what you're referring to in the bolded sentence.
as for the rest, thanks for pointing that out. the groin strike isn't supposed to be usable in a full attack. i'll fix that.

[Winds]

Well the goal is to allow whoever buys this to exist in hostile environments, and the trouble I'm having is how general the term is. In my mind, it would ignore a strong wind, but not a lightning strike from a call lightning spell. Maybe limit it exclusively natural effects? That seems like it would complicate things even more.

By breathing, I meant any form of respiration that would cause drowning if a creature were to stop, so maybe have the effect based on whatever the users natural environment is? As for more lethal, I meant things like naturally occurring lava or acidic lakes, vacuums, and The River Styx. I could just turn it into a fantastic mythos and allow them to reactively spend resources to gain temporary elemental resistance I suppose.



I'd take inspiration from Teramach's Indiscriminate Filth-Quaffing Appetite.

At lower levels, your proposed Mythos grants greater resistance to effects that can be ignored with fortitude-Cold, for example, doesn't matter as much if you can't feel it...(This has the added effect of stressing the unnatural effects of being an Anthol, even before they can more overtly bend reality.) As the character grows stronger, this expands to more overt powers-though I'd leave it to you to figure that out. You have a much clearer idea of what it should do, that justs seems like a way to get started.

[Nanoblack]

I'd take inspiration from Teramach's Indiscriminate Filth-Quaffing Appetite.

At lower levels, your proposed Mythos grants greater resistance to effects that can be ignored with fortitude-Cold, for example, doesn't matter as much if you can't feel it...(This has the added effect of stressing the unnatural effects of being an Anthol, even before they can more overtly bend reality.) As the character grows stronger, this expands to more overt powers-though I'd leave it to you to figure that out. You have a much clearer idea of what it should do, that justs seems like a way to get started.

That's actually a really good idea. I also keep running into the problem of having a good portion of my mythos start as excellencies and then expand to full-on mythos as I work on them. It's awful considering you need so many to have a playable class.

[JKTrickster]

i don't know what you're referring to in the bolded sentence.
as for the rest, thanks for pointing that out. the groin strike isn't supposed to be usable in a full attack. i'll fix that.

Ah see that was the point. I was confused because it sounded like either an Attack action (so it was possible with a full attack) or some kind of Free action.

And I meant it with the Third Manifestation, not the First one.

[commander panda]

Ah see that was the point. I was confused because it sounded like either an Attack action (so it was possible with a full attack) or some kind of Free action.

And I meant it with the Third Manifestation, not the First one.

attack actions are from tomb of battle, right? i don't own that book, but i'll try to clarify.

[JKTrickster]

No Attack Actions means that it can be used in place of an attack. E.g. A trip is an attack action because it can be used whenever you normally attack.

But that's besides the point. It seems like it was never meant to be used with a Full Attack, so I digress.

[DracoDei]

Not wanting to necro the Kathodos, I'm going to ask some questions here about two Fantastic mythos... not sure if this is the best way to handle it, but it is what I have.


Changing Seasons Kata
[Air][Water][Earth][Fire]
Prerequisite: -

Choose one Diamond Mind stance of 3rd level or lower. This is your Air Kata. Choose one Setting Sun stance of 3rd level or lower. This is your Water Kata. Choose one Stone Dragon stance of 3rd level or lower. This is your Earth Kata. Choose one Desert Wind stance of 3rd level of lower. This is your Fire Kata.

As a swift action, you may enter a Kata, leave a Kata, or change from one Kata to another. However, you may not change from an Air Kata to an Earth Kata or vice versa, and you cannot change from a Water Kata to a Fire Kata or vice versa.

Advanced
[i]Harmonius Continuum Charge: A sequence of "Air -> Water -> Earth -> Fire -> Air" symbolizes harmony among the elements. When you switch from one Kata to another in this sequence, it generates positive energy. When you complete one step in the sequence, you heal one hit point. When you complete a second step, you heal a number of hit points equal to your Intelligence modifier. When you complete a third step, you gain Fast Healing 2 for a number of rounds equal to your Intelligence modifier, which does not stack with other forms of Fast Healing. When you complete a fourth step, you gain Temporary Hit Points equal to your Intelligence modifier, which do not stack with other forms of Temporary Hit Points. After four steps, the cycle ends; as it does if you do not progress at least one step per round.

Dissonant Continuum Charge: A sequence of "Air -> Fire -> Earth -> Water -> Air" symbolizes dissonance among the elements. When you switch from one Kata to another in this sequence, it generates negative energy. When you complete one step in the sequence, you deal one point of negative energy damage to every adjacent creature. When you complete a second step, your next attack roll ignores 2 points of armor or natural armor on the target. When you complete a third step, your next attack deals additional negative energy damage equal to your Intelligence modifier, if it hits. When you complete a fourth step, your next attack causes all creatures adjacent to your target (other than yourself) to make a Fortitude save or suffer negative energy damage equal to (your Intelligence modifier x 2), if it hits its original target. After four steps, the cycle ends; as it does if you do not progress at least one step per round.
Do you have to start from Air? Does simply changing into your (air?) stance count as the first step, or should this really count TRANSITIONS rather than steps? I will note that the first one is unlimited out of combat healing at level 2, but that isn't a bad thing, and probably pales in comparison to getting 4 stances at level 1.


Overwhelming Dragon-Suspire
[External][Variable]
Prerequisite: The 'Wrathful Dragon-Shot' Mythos

When you use Wrathful Dragon-Shot, instead of shooting a ranged bolt, you may have the gathered element issue forth as a (class level / 2, x 10 ; rounded down) foot long destructive cone, originating from you. You may choose to make the attack roll as normal, and apply it to all targets in the cone, or to have all targets in the cone make a Reflex save (success negates any damage or additional effects) in lieu of you making an attack roll.
Is there any particular reason you have the size going in 10' increments, rather than simply (class level x 5')?

[vasharanpaladin]

I'd be happy to put those on the Random Mythos doc, if you could provide links to their posts.

Twin-Souled Berserker Fuselage Extrusion (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=15621309&postcount=50)

Incarnadine Hell-Furnace Atrocity (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=16063907&postcount=238)

I'd hunt down Amechra's, but I'm not as certain which of those are the final versions...

[Vauron]

Do you have to start from Air? Does simply changing into your (air?) stance count as the first step, or should this really count TRANSITIONS rather than steps? I will note that the first one is unlimited out of combat healing at level 2, but that isn't a bad thing, and probably pales in comparison to getting 4 stances at level 1.


I'm not Xefas, but I'd like to note that CSK only comes online at level seven, not one. Thus, endless out of combat healing only occurs at level 8 and above.

I do have my own question concerning the Kathados. I know that it can draw on the planes of Air, Fire, Water, and Earth, but what about the other Inner Planes? Chiefly I ask about the Positive and Negative planes, as I feel save assuming that places like the Quasielemental plane of Mineral or the Paraelemental plane of Magma are kosher.

One of the mythos I'm working on at the moment is a waterbending healing mythos where the current fluff is basically that you filter positive energy through water so that the whole exploding thing from the PEP isn't an issue. That mythos is the main reason why I ask.


On a completely unrelated note, I'm having issues with a different mythos I'm working on. It is intended to be a Fantastic mythos that basically lets you endow the weather with varius effects which are largely determined by what weather is currently happening. If you have played Scarlet Weather Rhapsody and/or Hisoutensoku, thats the kinda stuff I have in mind. While I have a few ideas down, I'd like to see if any of you have ideas.

Daylight becomes even more supereffective against things that hate it and also overcomes magical darkness (possible increase in fire damage?)
light rain: a small amount of Fast Healing over a massive area and really good for crops. (possible decrease in fire damage?)
snow: calm emotions
storm: make people rage maybe? (increase in electric damage?)
cloudy: penalty to sense motive?
fog: confusion? (think the mind fog from the Dresden Files that was used in the wal-mart)

[Tempestfury]

Firstly, doesn’t this Mythos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17850279&postcount=1345) need to be put into the mythos document? Or is it being put into a PrC or something?

Second. Is anyone up to doing a Mythic pbp RP any time soon? I’m seeing all these great creations to the mythos characters, but I’m not seeing much chance to have them seen in practice... or at all.

Third. I have two Bellator Mythos I would like to share. I apologize that I keep working on the Bellator, and not being around for some time. I love the Bellator class, and I lost track of the alerts for some reason.

As before, I suck at coming up with the names for the mythos, and would greatly appreciate suggestions and advice for them. Plus, they aren’t all that exciting either, and I would love suggests to improve on them.

[Name Pending]
[Exalted]
Requirements: The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep

You can now use eight level maneuvers and stances of the chosen discipline. In addition, you can chose a second or third level strike for your passive strike ability instead of a first level strike. Finally, you can use two strikes or two boosts from the chosen discipline at the same time, as well as enter be in two stances from the chosen discipline at the same time. Unlikely other discipline mythos, this mythos can only be taken once by a Bellator.

Blazing Thunder Style
[Exceptional]

You gain Rapid Reload and Gunsmith as a bonus feat. In addition, you immediately gain a battered firearm, similarly to the battered firearm that a Gunslinger gets at level one.

Basic
1. You can add your dexterity modifier to your ranged damage rolls with firearms.

2. You add your wisdom modifier to your ranged damage rolls with firearms, and can use wisdom in place of dexterity.

[Kymme]

Firstly, doesn’t this Mythos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=17850279&postcount=1345) need to be put into the mythos document? Or is it being put into a PrC or something?

Second. Is anyone up to doing a Mythic pbp RP any time soon? I’m seeing all these great creations to the mythos characters, but I’m not seeing much chance to have them seen in practice... or at all.

7th son is working on a prestige class that that particular mythos is made for. That's why I haven't included it.

Also, I too would be interested in a Mythos PbP.


Exalted Martial Adept Mythos

I think that it would be better to model this off of the three lower tier mythos. As it stands, you've completely skipped over level 7 strikes and stances. Also, you mention a Passive Strike, but don't mention my 'The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep' excellency in the prerequisites.


Blazing Thunder Style

Interesting, but a little bland. You ought to make it let Bellators do something cool with their firearms. Maybe use a deed or two? Perhaps reload faster or something.

[Tempestfury]

I think that it would be better to model this off of the three lower tier mythos. As it stands, you've completely skipped over level 7 strikes and stances. Also, you mention a Passive Strike, but don't mention my 'The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep' excellency in the prerequisites.

Exalted Mythos are the pinnacle of the Bellator's power. Its Captsone abilities. I think its more than fair to ignore the normal 'grant level 7 and then grant level 8' and instead go right to 'grant level 8 and bellow, and other abilities'. As for The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep? Its a requirement for the mythos.


Interesting, but a little bland. You ought to make it let Bellators do something cool with their firearms. Maybe use a deed or two? Perhaps reload faster or something.

Yeah... bland is a big problem with it currently, and I would rather not grab a deed or two because that basically has the Bellator becoming a Gunslinger, which isn't my attention in the slightest... I would rather the Bellator's mythos be more unquie and interesting. Though, thinking about it... does anyone else feel that the Bellator has to much of a melee focus?

[Kymme]

Exalted Mythos are the pinnacle of the Bellator's power. Its Capstone abilities. I think its more than fair to ignore the normal 'grant level 7 and then grant level 8' and instead go right to 'grant level 8 and bellow, and other abilities'. As for The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep? Its a requirement for the mythos.

Well, fair enough. The text just says 8th level maneuvers and stances, though, so it seemed to me that 7th was completely skipped over.

Oh, apologies. I didn't notice that when I looked at the prerequisites.


Yeah... bland is a big problem with it currently, and I would rather not grab a deed or two because that basically has the Bellator becoming a Gunslinger, which isn't my attention in the slightest... I would rather the Bellator's mythos be more unique and interesting. Though, thinking about it... does anyone else feel that the Bellator has to much of a melee focus?

Just one or two deeds wouldn't really make them become a gunslinger, tho.

And yes, the Bellator has a pretty significant melee focus. I'm not sure if that's a bug or a feature.

[JKTrickster]

Exalted Mythos are the pinnacle of the Bellator's power. Its Captsone abilities. I think its more than fair to ignore the normal 'grant level 7 and then grant level 8' and instead go right to 'grant level 8 and bellow, and other abilities'. As for The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep? Its a requirement for the mythos.


Uh even though that is true, there is no reason to skip over the basic structure guaranteed by other Mythos. The only thing your Mythos does is that it skips over the Manifestations - that just makes it slightly faster in terms of leveling. Especially at higher levels, the cost of additional Advanced Mythos is extremely small anyway. I don't think it'll be an issue at all

Furthermore, Epic level Bellators exist. There are a full 3 - 4 Tiers of Mythos above Exalted. Exalted is strong yes. But try to imagine the room for Epic here.

The additional parts of your Mythos are....odd. I would honestly believe that the majority of it should apply to multiple disciplines. The Bellator should be able to get 8th level maneuvers with a variety of disciplines. The [Disciplines Roots Grow Deep] can be applied to multiple disciplines as well. So why does this Mythos limit that?

[ThreadNecro5]

I was just reading the mythic vampire and I noticed something that may be a problematic with it, well as the mythic vampire has a mythos that makes it take damage form sunlight, what exactly happens if it takes levels of Holocaust sun (how it got there in the first place is beyond this question). as they take damage from sunlight, yet they emit the stuff as they are a sun, exactly what happens in this scenario, to they just celebrate gaining a LV and crucible to dust as a DM somewhere in the world facepalms? :smallamused:

[Adam1949]

I was just reading the mythic vampire and I noticed something that may be a problematic with it, well as the mythic vampire has a mythos that makes it take damage form sunlight, what exactly happens if it takes levels of Holocaust sun (how it got there in the first place is beyond this question). as they take damage from sunlight, yet they emit the stuff as they are a sun, exactly what happens in this scenario, to they just celebrate gaining a LV and crucible to dust as a DM somewhere in the world facepalms? :smallamused:

The Mythic Vampire was not one of my brightest ideas. In fact, the power and flavor of it is just a mess.

That being said, why in the world would a Vampire also want to be the Sun?

[Tacitus]

No, see, its a superb story. In a profane ritual to allow all of his kind to walk free forever without the threat of the sun the Mythic Vampire sacrifices himself, taking the sun into himself to extinguish it forever. However, the sun will not be doused so easily and constantly burns within him, pouring from his very skin. Makes perfect sense to me.

[commander panda]

imagin, for a moment, a world where a vampire actually completed the requirements of becoming a holocaust sun...

i think it sounds like a badass, flavourful, and fairly reasonable background for a vampire becoming a sun (and becoming immune to sunlight.)

EDIT: :smallfurious:....NINJAS....:smallfurious:


EDITEDIT:

Is anyone up to doing a Mythic pbp RP any time soon? I’m seeing all these great creations to the mythos characters, but I’m not seeing much chance to have them seen in practice... or at all.

i'd be down for that. granted i start university soon, so i might end up having a more restricted posting rate than i would like, but i'd still love to see this happen.



[COLOR="#0000FF"]
[COLOR="#0000FF"]
Yeah... bland is a big problem with it currently, and I would rather not grab a deed or two because that basically has the Bellator becoming a Gunslinger, which isn't my attention in the slightest... I would rather the Bellator's mythos be more unquie and interesting. Though, thinking about it... does anyone else feel that the Bellator has to much of a melee focus?
it is pretty melee focused, isn't it. i think i'll definitely try to come up with a ranged mythos once i get my next two churned out. but for now,this is pretty awesome. is it meant to carry over to 3.5?

also, my first thoughts for cool gun based abilities is ranged disarming/sundering, disabling enemies by blowing out limbs (even if they don't have discernible anatomy), and bullet time. maybe also find a way to tie gunsmithing into the bellator's pre-existing crafting mythos.

[Sgt. Cookie]

This is an edit of The Shadow. Including important things, such as "class" skills, crafting abilities and, um, mild proofreading on the story!

Also, the "Crafting Pool" malarkey is now known as "Embellishments".

Also, have some general stuff regarding [Guardians]:


Guardians must remain within 500ft of The Episkeptis. Some [Guardians] can ignore or extend this limit, either generally or under certain circumstances. If the [Guardian] goes beyond this limit, they vanish, just as if The Episkeptis dismissed them.

All [Guardian]s speak (Provided they CAN speak) and (At least) understand every language The Episkeptis can.

A [Guardian] is dismissed as a Free Action. So, yes, you CAN dismiss a [Guardian] and use the returned Narrative Power to summon a different [Guardian] in the same round.

The [Guardian] can be summoned anywhere within 500ft (Or more, if the [Guardian] has an extended range) that is within the Episkeptis' Line of Sight.

All [Guardian]s have a Type. This is mentioned as a "Special" ability. No spell, ability, class feature, etc, can cause a [Guardian] to fall under the control of someone other than The Episkeptis. (So if, for example, an Undead [Guardian] is attacked by an Evil Cleric, the Cleric's Rebuke Undead ability would not be able to Command the Guardian. EVER. No, not even then.)

[Guardian]s last for as long as the Episkeptis wishes them to, provided the Episkeptis is still concious. (So going to sleep will automatically dismiss all Guardians.)





Of The Things That Lurk In Darkness

There once was a town guardsman, returning home. Today, he thought, was a good day. He had just returned from the home of a man. This man had fallen on hard times, you see, but he had a great many items of value. The man was trying to sell them off, to various merchants but he was not having tremendous luck. He had a daughter, too, and they were both hungry. Of course what few items he was able to sell did not provide much, so he was forced to steal food to feed them both.

He was a thief now and the rulers of the town did not approve of thievery, whatever the reason. So they sent a guardsman out to arrest him. This guardsman however, was a greedy man. Upon entering the house he saw the unsold items his greed got the better of him. The man was there, but his daughter was not. The man was a thief and the guardsman was only defending himself, he would later say. With none to refute his claims that he was attacked first. The man was a thief and his possessions were no longer his after death. The lion's share of the many valuables went to the guardsman for "bravery in the act of enforcing order" while the rest were divvied between his fellows.

Several weeks passed by and the guardsman was happy with the gold gained from selling what he "earned". One day, there was a small commotion in town and he investigated. It was a small scuffle, a drunken fight between patrons. What happened next, few would dare retell. The guardsman drew his sword and slew the two drunken brawlers and then, bloodied sword in hand, rushed towards the crowd. With screams and sword strikes the guardsman's rampage soon caught the attention of other guards who soon rushed to the scene.

Talk did not calm the guardsman, reason did not sway him and his companions could not subdue him. They had no other action but to kill him. But there was shock in the guardsman's killer, for he looked upon the shadow of the guardsman and saw a thing trail away. A thing that, the guardsman's killer knew, was what forced the guardsman's hand.

A distance away, in view of the slaughter of the guardsman, was the daughter. The daughter of the man the guardsman killed out of greed and avarice. The shadow-thing slinked towards her, stopping at her shadow not to influence but to whisper three words. "It is done". The daughter smiled and walked away. But from then on, the girl's shadow was... different, smaller. For whenever people looked upon her shadow, they saw that it was missing an arm. As payment, for the shadow and the revenge it took in her name.

The Shadow
[Guardian]



Base Statistics:

Shape: Amorphous; Size: Medium; Speed: 30ft (Fly); Attack: 1d6 Cold, Touch Attack

Hit Dice: D8; BAB: Average (3/4); Cost: 3 Narrative Power

Base Stats:

Str: - Dex: 14 Con: - Int: 12 Wis: 13 Cha: 15

Skills: The Shadow’s "class" skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (Religion), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis)

Skill points at 1st Hit Dice: 4(x4) + Int Mod
Skill Points at Each Additional Hit Dice: 4 + Int Mod



Class Level
Hit Dice
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Skill Points
Feats
Base Embellishments
Special


1st
1
+0
+0
+2
+2
4(x4)
1
3
Undead, Incorporeal, Unholy Toughness, Chilling Touch 1d6, Telepathic Link


2nd
1
+0
+0
+2
+2
4
1
4
Shadow Rider


3rd
2
+1
+0
+3
+3
8
1
5
Chilling Touch, 2d6


4th
3
+2
+1
+3
+3
12
2
7
Sensory Link


5th
3
+2
+1
+3
+3
12
2
8



6th
4
+3
+1
+4
+4
16
2
9
Chilling Touch, 3d6


7th
5
+3
+1
+4
+4
20
2
11



8th
6
+4
+2
+5
+5
24
3
12
Chilling Touch, 4d6


9th
6
+4
+2
+5
+5
24
3
13
Shadow Possession


10th
7
+5
+2
+5
+5
28
3
15



11th
8
+6/+1
+2
+6
+6
32
3
16
Chilling Touch, 5d6


12th
8
+6/+1
+2
+6
+6
32
3
17



13th
9
+6/+1
+3
+6
+6
36
4
19



14th
10
+7/+2
+3
+7
+7
40
4
20
Chilling Touch, 6d6


15th
10
+7/+2
+3
+7
+7
40
4
21






Special:

Undead: The Shadow is an Undead creature.

Incorporeal: The Shadow possesses the Incorporeal Subtype.

Unholy Toughness (Ex): The Shadow possesses the Unholy Toughness special quality, allowing it to use it's Charisma Modifier in place of it Constitution for Hit Points.

Chilling Touch (Su): At The Shadow's first Hit Dice, it gains a Touch Attack that deals 1d6 Cold Damage. At The Shadow's 2nd Hit Dice, and every even numbered Hit Dice thereafter, the damage increases by 1d6.

Telepathic Link (Su): The Shadow maintains a permanent link to The Episkesptis that summoned it. This is identical to the "Telepathy" special ability, except that it only links The Shadow and The Episkeptis and it functions regardless of distance.

Shadow Rider (Ex): The Shadow may, as a free action, latch onto a single, adjacent shadow cast by a creature. The Shadow does not become "invisible", the creature's shadow appears to gain "something", such as an extra limb or a large lump. The Shadow may attempt a Disguise Check to hide in the shadow. It may stop riding the shadow as a free action. While riding, The Shadow may be any distance away from the Episkeptis. If The Shadow stops riding while beyond the 300ft range, it "reforms" adjacent to the Episkeptis.

Sensory Link (Su): As a Standard Action, The Shadow can attempt to merge it's own senses with that of it's Host. The Host must make a Will Save to prevent this merging. If the host fails the save, then whatever the Host senses, the Shadow does as well.

The Host must be a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid for this ability to function.

Shadow Possession (Su): If The Shadow has successfully linked with the senses of its host, it may, as a standard action, attempt to gain complete control over its host. This action also forces a Will Save (However, if The Shadow's Charisma Modifier is higher than that of the Episkeptis, it may use its own Charisma Modifier on this save). If the host fails, The Shadow has complete control over the host's actions, as per the Dominate Person spell. (Including Will Saves to do things against its nature or committing self destructive acts.)

1 Embellishment Abilities:

Shadow Dissuasion Mastery (Ex): The Shadow gains a +10 Racial Bonus on Disguise Checks made to hide in the shadow of another creature.

Ever Constant Whispers (Ex): Whenever The Shadow has linked senses with a creature, it can whisper into the ears of the creature, causing fear and paranoia. This manifests as a constant -2 penalty to Listen and Knowledge Checks, which is removed when The Shadow leaves. Additionally, The Shadow may, as a Standard Action, make the whispers worse, louder and more numerous. This manifests as a -4 Penalty to Listen and Knowledge checks, in addition to causing the creature to be Shaken. This second effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to The Shadow's Charisma Modifier. It can only be performed once every 10 Minutes.

Disappear (Ex): When in contact with the shadow of an inanimate object, it can merge with it completely, becoming Invisible. Additionally, The Shadow is treated as possessing Total Concealment when in any conditions other than Full Daylight. The Daylight spell can negate this Concealment as will completely lighting the area. Under those circumstances, The Shadow still possesses Concealment.

Cold Resistance (Ex): The Shadow gains Cold Resistance equal to (5 X 1/2 its Hit Dice). At 7 Hit Dice, this can be upgraded to Immunity for an extra Embellishment.

Improved Sensory Capacity (Ex): Select 2 of the following Types: Animal, Fey, Giant, Ooze, Plant and Vermin. The Shadow's Sensory Link ability functions on those types. This ability can be gained multiple times, selecting different types each time. This DOES NOT expand Shadow Possesion.

2 Embellishment Abilities:

Ability Score Increase (Ex): Increase one of The Shadows ability scores by +2. This ability can be selected more than once. It can only be applied once to an individual ability score, plus 1 additional time for every 5 Hit Dice The Shadow possesses. (Once at 1st level, again at 5th and at 10th and every 5th Hit Dice thereafter.)

Clothed by the darkness (Su): Whenever The Shadow is summoned, The Episkeptis gains a "cloak" of darkness. This "cloak" can take any form of clothing desired, such as an actual cloak, a fine dress/suit or simple overalls. The "cloak" is technically incorporeal, it won't get damaged or dirty (And no dirt will seep through the "cloak" onto your actual clothing or bare skin) nor will it get trapped or snagged. It always appears to be the "ideal" for whatever clothing it is (Suits are creaseless from lapel to ankle and dresses are... whatever the ideal for a dresses is. (I'm a bloke! I don't bloody know.))

Whatever the form, it's functionality is unchanged: The Episkeptis gains Total Concealment under the same conditions as Disappear, see above. Additionally, The Episkeptis gains a +6 Bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks. And thirdly, The Episkeptis gains a Deflection Bonus equal to his Charisma Modifier.

Turn Resistance (Su): The Shadow gains Turn Resistance equal to it's Charisma Modifier. This resistance also applies to hostile Rebuke attempts.

Energy Resistance (Ex): Pick one of the following Energy Types: Acid, Electricity, Fire or Sonic. The Shadow gains Resistance 5 against the chosen Energy Type. This increases by 5 for every 3 Hit Dice The Shadow possesses. At 9 Hit Dice, this can be upgraded to Immunity for 1 extra Embellishment.

This ability can be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a different Energy Type.

Warped Perspective (Ex): This ability functions as Improved Sensory Capacity, except that you Select 2 of the following types: Aberration, Construct, Elemental, Fey, Magical Beast or Undead (No, you still can't take control via Shadow possession). You must have Improved Sensory Capacity to take this ability. Additionally, the Types chosen for Improved Sensory Capacity can now be affected by Shadow Possession.

3 Embellishment abilities:

Eyes amongst the darkness (Ex): The Shadow gains Blindsense out to 30ft. Additionally, it can see clearly in all types of Darkness (Including Magical Darkness and Deeper Darkness). This ability can be "leant" to creatures it has possessed.

See through the eyes of gods (Ex): This functions as Improved Sensory Capacity, except that it applies to Dragons and Outsiders. You must have Warped Perspective to take this ability. Additionally, the Types chosen for Warped Perspective can now be affected by Shadow Possession.

4 Embellishment abilities:

Bonds of darkness and willpower (Ex): Shadow Possession now affects Dragons and Outsiders. You must have See Through the Eyes of Gods to take this ability.




So, now that I've got a "finished" [Guardian] Mythos, what do you think?

BTW, the next Mythos I do will be an [Expression]. Guess which one :smalltongue:.

EDIT: Ignore me. I forgot something kiiiiinda important. Gimme a few mins to sort it.

EDIT 2: Done now. PEACH and all that, if you have time.

[Kymme]

This is an edit of The Shadow. Including important things, such as "class" skills, crafting abilities and, um, mild proofreading on the story!

Also, the "Crafting Pool" malarkey is now known as "Embellishments".

Also, have some general stuff regarding [Guardians]:


Guardians must remain within 500ft of The Episkeptis. Some [Guardians] can ignore or extend this limit, either generally or under certain circumstances. If the [Guardian] goes beyond this limit, they vanish, just as if The Episkeptis dismissed them.

All [Guardian]s speak (Provided they CAN speak) and (At least) understand every language The Episkeptis can.

A [Guardian] is dismissed as a Free Action. So, yes, you CAN dismiss a [Guardian] and use the returned Narrative Power to summon a different [Guardian] in the same round.

The [Guardian] can be summoned anywhere within 500ft (Or more, if the [Guardian] has an extended range) that is within the Episkeptis' Line of Sight.

All [Guardian]s have a Type. This is mentioned as a "Special" ability. No spell, ability, class feature, etc, can cause a [Guardian] to fall under the control of someone other than The Episkeptis. (So if, for example, an Undead [Guardian] is attacked by an Evil Cleric, the Cleric's Rebuke Undead ability would not be able to Command the Guardian. EVER. No, not even then.)

[Guardian]s last for as long as the Episkeptis wishes them to, provided the Episkeptis is still concious. (So going to sleep will automatically dismiss all Guardians.)





Of The Things That Lurk In Darkness

There once was a town guardsman, returning home. Today, he thought, was a good day. He had just returned from the home of a man. This man had fallen on hard times, you see, but he had a great many items of value. The man was trying to sell them off, to various merchants but he was not having tremendous luck. He had a daughter, too, and they were both hungry. Of course what few items he was able to sell did not provide much, so he was forced to steal food to feed them both.

He was a thief now and the rulers of the town did not approve of thievery, whatever the reason. So they sent a guardsman out to arrest him. This guardsman however, was a greedy man. Upon entering the house he saw the unsold items his greed got the better of him. The man was there, but his daughter was not. The man was a thief and the guardsman was only defending himself, he would later say. With none to refute his claims that he was attacked first. The man was a thief and his possessions were no longer his after death. The lion's share of the many valuables went to the guardsman for "bravery in the act of enforcing order" while the rest were divvied between his fellows.

Several weeks passed by and the guardsman was happy with the gold gained from selling what he "earned". One day, there was a small commotion in town and he investigated. It was a small scuffle, a drunken fight between patrons. What happened next, few would dare retell. The guardsman drew his sword and slew the two drunken brawlers and then, bloodied sword in hand, rushed towards the crowd. With screams and sword strikes the guardsman's rampage soon caught the attention of other guards who soon rushed to the scene.

Talk did not calm the guardsman, reason did not sway him and his companions could not subdue him. They had no other action but to kill him. But there was shock in the guardsman's killer, for he looked upon the shadow of the guardsman and saw a thing trail away. A thing that, the guardsman's killer knew, was what forced the guardsman's hand.

A distance away, in view of the slaughter of the guardsman, was the daughter. The daughter of the man the guardsman killed out of greed and avarice. The shadow-thing slinked towards her, stopping at her shadow not to influence but to whisper three words. "It is done". The daughter smiled and walked away. But from then on, the girl's shadow was... different, smaller. For whenever people looked upon her shadow, they saw that it was missing an arm. As payment, for the shadow and the revenge it took in her name.

The Shadow



Base Statistics:

Shape: Amorphous; Size: Medium; Speed: 30ft (Fly); Attack: 1d6 Cold, Touch Attack

Hit Dice: D8; BAB: Average (3/4); Cost: 3 Narrative Power

Base Stats:

Str: - Dex: 14 Con: - Int: 12 Wis: 13 Cha: 15

Skills: The Shadow’s "class" skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Concentration (Con), Disguise (Cha), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (Religion), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis)

Skill points at 1st Hit Dice: 4(x4) + Int Mod
Skill Points at Each Additional Hit Dice: 4 + Int Mod



Class Level
Hit Dice
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Skill Points
Feats
Base Embellishments
Special


1st
1
+0
+0
+2
+2
4(x4)
1
3
Undead, Incorporeal, Unholy Toughness, Chilling Touch 1d6, Telepathic Link


2nd
1
+0
+0
+2
+2
4
1
4
Shadow Rider


3rd
2
+1
+0
+3
+3
8
1
5
Chilling Touch, 2d6


4th
3
+2
+1
+3
+3
12
2
7
Sensory Link


5th
3
+2
+1
+3
+3
12
2
8



6th
4
+3
+1
+4
+4
16
2
9
Chilling Touch, 3d6


7th
5
+3
+1
+4
+4
20
2
11



8th
6
+4
+2
+5
+5
24
3
12
Chilling Touch, 4d6


9th
6
+4
+2
+5
+5
24
3
13
Shadow Possession


10th
7
+5
+2
+5
+5
28
3
15



11th
8
+6/+1
+2
+6
+6
32
3
16
Chilling Touch, 5d6


12th
8
+6/+1
+2
+6
+6
32
3
17



13th
9
+6/+1
+3
+6
+6
36
4
19



14th
10
+7/+2
+3
+7
+7
40
4
20
Chilling Touch, 6d6


15th
10
+7/+2
+3
+7
+7
40
4
21






Special:

Undead: The Shadow is an Undead creature.

Incorporeal: The Shadow possesses the Incorporeal Subtype.

Unholy Toughness (Ex): The Shadow possesses the Unholy Toughness special quality, allowing it to use it's Charisma Modifier in place of it Constitution for Hit Points.

Chilling Touch (Su): At The Shadow's first Hit Dice, it gains a Touch Attack that deals 1d6 Cold Damage. At The Shadow's 2nd Hit Dice, and every even numbered Hit Dice thereafter, the damage increases by 1d6.

Telepathic Link (Su): The Shadow maintains a permanent link to The Episkesptis that summoned it. This is identical to the "Telepathy" special ability, except that it only links The Shadow and The Episkeptis and it functions regardless of distance.

Shadow Rider (Ex): The Shadow may, as a free action, latch onto a single, adjacent shadow cast by a creature. The Shadow does not become "invisible", the creature's shadow appears to gain "something", such as an extra limb or a large lump. The Shadow may attempt a Disguise Check to hide in the shadow. It may stop riding the shadow as a free action. While riding, The Shadow may be any distance away from the Episkeptis. If The Shadow stops riding while beyond the 300ft range, it "reforms" adjacent to the Episkeptis.

Sensory Link (Su): As a Standard Action, The Shadow can attempt to merge it's own senses with that of it's Host. The Host must make a Will Save to prevent this merging. If the host fails the save, then whatever the Host senses, the Shadow does as well.

The Host must be a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid for this ability to function.

Shadow Possession (Su): If The Shadow has successfully linked with the senses of its host, it may, as a standard action, attempt to gain complete control over its host. This action also forces a Will Save (However, if The Shadow's Charisma Modifier is higher than that of the Episkeptis, it may use its own Charisma Modifier on this save). If the host fails, The Shadow has complete control over the host's actions, as per the Dominate Person spell. (Including Will Saves to do things against its nature or committing self destructive acts.)

1 Embellishment Abilities:

Shadow Dissuasion Mastery (Ex): The Shadow gains a +10 Racial Bonus on Disguise Checks made to hide in the shadow of another creature.

Ever Constant Whispers (Ex): Whenever The Shadow has linked senses with a creature, it can whisper into the ears of the creature, causing fear and paranoia. This manifests as a constant -2 penalty to Listen and Knowledge Checks, which is removed when The Shadow leaves. Additionally, The Shadow may, as a Standard Action, make the whispers worse, louder and more numerous. This manifests as a -4 Penalty to Listen and Knowledge checks, in addition to causing the creature to be Shaken. This second effect lasts for a number of rounds equal to The Shadow's Charisma Modifier. It can only be performed once every 10 Minutes.

Disappear (Ex): When in contact with the shadow of an inanimate object, it can merge with it completely, becoming Invisible. Additionally, The Shadow is treated as possessing Total Concealment when in any conditions other than Full Daylight. The Daylight spell can negate this Concealment as will completely lighting the area. Under those circumstances, The Shadow still possesses Concealment.

Cold Resistance (Ex): The Shadow gains Cold Resistance equal to (5 X 1/2 its Hit Dice). At 7 Hit Dice, this can be upgraded to Immunity for an extra Embellishment.

Improved Sensory Capacity (Ex): Select 2 of the following Types: Animal, Fey, Giant, Ooze, Plant and Vermin. The Shadow's Sensory Link ability functions on those types. This ability can be gained multiple times, selecting different types each time. This DOES NOT expand Shadow Possesion.

2 Embellishment Abilities:

Ability Score Increase (Ex): Increase one of The Shadows ability scores by +2. This ability can be selected more than once. It can only be applied once to an individual ability score, plus 1 additional time for every 5 Hit Dice The Shadow possesses. (Once at 1st level, again at 5th and at 10th and every 5th Hit Dice thereafter.)

Clothed by the darkness (Su): Whenever The Shadow is summoned, The Episkeptis gains a "cloak" of darkness. This "cloak" can take any form of clothing desired, such as an actual cloak, a fine dress/suit or simple overalls. The "cloak" is technically incorporeal, it won't get damaged or dirty (And no dirt will seep through the "cloak" onto your actual clothing or bare skin) nor will it get trapped or snagged. It always appears to be the "ideal" for whatever clothing it is (Suits are creaseless from lapel to ankle and dresses are... whatever the ideal for a dresses is. (I'm a bloke! I don't bloody know.))

Whatever the form, it's functionality is unchanged: The Episkeptis gains Total Concealment under the same conditions as Disappear, see above. Additionally, The Episkeptis gains a +6 Bonus to Hide and Move Silently checks. And thirdly, The Episkeptis gains a Deflection Bonus equal to his Charisma Modifier.

Turn Resistance (Su): The Shadow gains Turn Resistance equal to it's Charisma Modifier. This resistance also applies to hostile Rebuke attempts.

Energy Resistance (Ex): Pick one of the following Energy Types: Acid, Electricity, Fire or Sonic. The Shadow gains Resistance 5 against the chosen Energy Type. This increases by 5 for every 3 Hit Dice The Shadow possesses. At 9 Hit Dice, this can be upgraded to Immunity for 1 extra Embellishment.

This ability can be taken multiple times, each time it applies to a different Energy Type.

Warped Perspective (Ex): This ability functions as Improved Sensory Capacity, except that you Select 2 of the following types: Aberration, Construct, Elemental, Fey, Magical Beast or Undead (No, you still can't take control via Shadow possession). You must have Improved Sensory Capacity to take this ability. Additionally, the Types chosen for Improved Sensory Capacity can now be affected by Shadow Possession.

3 Embellishment abilities:

Eyes amongst the darkness (Ex): The Shadow gains Blindsense out to 30ft. Additionally, it can see clearly in all types of Darkness (Including Magical Darkness and Deeper Darkness). This ability can be "leant" to creatures it has possessed.

See through the eyes of gods (Ex): This functions as Improved Sensory Capacity, except that it applies to Dragons and Outsiders. You must have Warped Perspective to take this ability. Additionally, the Types chosen for Warped Perspective can now be affected by Shadow Possession.

4 Embellishment abilities:

Bonds of darkness and willpower (Ex): Shadow Possession now affects Dragons and Outsiders. You must have See Through the Eyes of Gods to take this ability.




So, now that I've got a "finished" [Guardian] Mythos, what do you think?

BTW, the next Mythos I do will be an [Expression]. Guess which one :smalltongue:.

EDIT: Ignore me. I forgot something kiiiiinda important. Gimme a few mins to sort it.

EDIT 2: Done now. PEACH and all that, if you have time.

Great to see! Not too versatile, but also not too specialized. Also, 'Embelishments' is an absolutely perfect name for what you're trying to get across.

So, the Shadow costs 3 narrative power to have summoned. Well, that covers my concerns with how many Guardians you can have at any given time; Narrative Power puts a hard and fast limit on them, it seems. That's good.

As far as your calculations for Narrative Power, do you think it would be gamebreaking for Legendary or maybe just Exalted Mythos to maybe add double to your NP? I think that it would make sense for Mythos as world-shattering as those to be a little bit more powerful than their lesser fellows.

Also, something to consider: an Excellency that gives you an additional point or two of Narrative Power - in exchange for some kind of sacrifice. Like, a penalty to an ability score or to saving throws or maximum hp. Something to represent the summoner losing a bit of his own vitality in exchange for more ULTIMATE POWAH.

[Sgt. Cookie]

At this early stage, I haven't done any calculations yet. For now, at least, I'm just Eyeballing the cost. Once I get a good chunk of Mythos together, I'm going to do some calculations. Hell, we might find that the current base is too low.

That said, a little bit of theorycrafting never hurt:

There will be, at least, 10 Mythos that are split between [Guardian] and [Expression]. The exact ratio is unimportant right now.

What that means is that a minimum of 5 points of Narrative Power exist, just, as is.

Assuming a Human with 18 Charisma, that gives us 4 points of Narrative Power, via Ability Scores.

So, let's say that Episkeptis is taken from levels 1-20, the increases to Charisma (Permanent/Semi-Permanent, that is) that I know of are:

Level up bonus: +5
Cloak of Charisma: +6 (Enhance)
Tome of Leadership and Influence: +5

For a total of +16 to Charisma, for a total of 34, a +12 modifier.

Which, in total, means a total Narrative Power pool of 17.

If we were to summon, say, 3 Cost [Guardian]s we would be able to have five [Guardians] at once, with 2 points spare.

Which is... exactly how many [Guardian] Mythos there are. At the ABSOLUTE minimum.

TL;DR: It appears that [Guardian]s may need to be more expensive OR the Narrative Power equation needs to be nerfed.

A most... interesting turn of events.

[commander panda]

ok, it took me a while, but i finally got this thing down on paper. sorta.
here is the bellator debuffing mythos me and JKTrickster were working on. feel free to PEACH. i still have one advanced manifestation in the works, just so you know.


body breaking word weaponization
prerequisite:-

As a move action, the Bellator may fix her gaze upon one of her opponents and utter a Promise that she will be coming for him. Whether this Promise takes the form of a lengthy threat or a single definitive word is up to the Bellator, but no matter what, her opponent must have line of sight to her, be able to hear her speak, understand her language and have a minimum intelligence score of 3. Once the Promise is made, the Bellator's foe must make a will save, the DC of which uses the Bellator's intelligence modifier, or become constantly paranoid that she is about to strike.
Any round during which the Bellator's opponent chooses not spend at least a full standard action focusing on her, he is distracted by his worry and is subjected to a penalty against his attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws and AC equal to half the Bellator's class level, as well as a 30% spell failure chance. "Focusing on" the Bellator could mean anything from staring at her, to targeting her with a scorching ray, to running away in the opposite direction; the standard action just needs to be a reaction to her, that is focused on her.
This mind-effecting ability lasts for 1d4+half the Bellator's intelligence modifier rounds, at the end of which her foe collects his frayed wits and focusses on the task at hand. However, if the Bellator makes another Promise before her opponent recovers, the duration is re-set to the length of the new Promise, rather than the old one.

Basic Manifestations
Prattling Rancor Impulsion
prerequisite:-

Where the Bellator could make a Promise, she instead issues a Challenge, or even an insult, to her opponent, working him into a fit of pride and anger until he simply self destructs, with her help. The effects of issuing a Challenge are similar to making a Promise, except as noted here. The Bellator's opponent is no longer "distracted" by the her, nor is there risk that he will suffer penalties for ignoring her.
Because he won't ignore her.
Upon failing the will save against the Bellator's Challenge, her enemy must move within 15 feet of her and not leave by any means for as long as they are beheld by the Challenge. They also must enter combat with her, whether this means casting a spell or hitting her with an axe is entirely up to them.
The moment the misbegotten fool comes within the 15ft area of the Bellator's Challenge, he begins to feel the exhaustive side effects of fighting the Bellator on her own terms, and becomes fatigued. As a swift action the Bellator can try to worsen her foe's condition by forcing a fortitude save vs becoming exhausted. If her opponent is already exhausted, he can be made staggered (regardless of whether his nonlethal damage equals his current hit points) at the normal DC -3. An opponent who is already staggered and fails their last fort save (which takes a -6 to the dc) finally gives in to exhaustion and falls unconscious for 1d10+the Bellator's int rounds.
Every round that the Bellator's opponent is beheld by her Challenge, they suffer from a stacking -4 to will saves, and fort saves where they apply to this mythos.

Dread The Iron Muse
prerequisite:-

With the taking of this manifestation, the Bellator learns to give her Promise a new level of… intensity. Her every word drips with her intention to run this fool into the ground and take his head like a hunting trophy. She is no longer issuing a Promise; it is a Hunters Mark.
The effects of issuing a Hunters Mark is similar to a Promise, except as noted here. In order to force a will save associated with this manifestation, the Bellator's prey must be within 100ft of her, in addition to the usual sight and sound requirements. Furthermore, the Bellator's opponent is no longer "distracted" by her, nor is there risk that he will suffer penalties for ignoring her. Because he can't ignore her. He is terrified of her.
As soon as the Bellator's opponent fails the initial will save vs her Hunters Mark, he immediately becomes frightened. Furthermore, the Bellator's prey is rarely able to muster the grace or focus for a proper retreat, and is reduced to half his base land speed as he stumbles and trips over roots, corpses, and his own clumsy feet.
If the Bellator chooses to chase after her fleeing foe (meaning she moves, in his general direction, at either her own full base land speed or the total distance her prey moved during his last turn, whichever is lower,) each round she does so and stays within 60 ft of him inflicts a stacking -4 penalty on will saves. As a swift action the Bellator can further the frightened prey's terror by forcing a will save vs. becoming panicked. If her prey is already panicked the save DC is reduced by 3 and he becomes both panicked and shaken. foes who are both panicked and shaken make their save against the normal DC -6, but become Cowering and Helpless on a failure, for 1d8+the Bellator's int modifier rounds.
If at any point the Bellator's prey spends a full round unable to see or hear her, the fear effects inflicted by this mythos are reduced by one, and are reduced by one for every further round spent away from her, and the speed penalty disappears. however all will save penalties remain for the next 24 hours.
enemies immune to fear are immune to this mythos manifestation.

Advanced Manifestations
Civic Hostility
prerequisite:-

The Bellator can now use this mythos to target a number of enemies up to half her class level, and these enemies no longer need to understand her language, nor have an intelligence score in excess of 3. At level 10, the Bellator's skill for influencing her many enemies grows even greater, and she can target her full class level's number of people, but only if they all have a hit die count half that of the Bellator, or less.
Whenever the Bellator has more that one creature Challenged or Marked at a time, and she kills one of them, all the others are given an immediate -4 on will and fortitude saves (as they pertain to this mythos) that stack with any other penalties they would normally accrue.


anyway, that (mostly) done. what do people prefer to see next: a mythos for ranged combat (sort of a trick shot theme), or a mythos to let shield bearers tank AoEs?

[Temotei]

what do people prefer to see next: a mythos for ranged combat (sort of a trick shot theme), or a mythos to let shield bearers tank AoEs?

I assume this means you'll be working on both?

I'd prefer to see the shield one first, personally.

[Lanth Sor]

So I've read a lot about the great wheel, but have seen next to nothing about fey origins and what not anyone got any points of interest? Thus why I have my lore based on Pathfinders lore as its well fleshed out. I'd like to key it off the normal but I need help.

[JKTrickster]

ok, it took me a while, but i finally got this thing down on paper. sorta.
here is the bellator debuffing mythos me and JKTrickster were working on. feel free to PEACH. i still have one advanced manifestation in the works, just so you know.


body breaking word weaponization
prerequisite:-

As a move action, the Bellator may fix her gaze upon one of her opponents and utter a Promise that she will be coming for him. Whether this Promise takes the form of a lengthy threat or a single definitive word is up to the Bellator, but no matter what, her opponent must have line of sight to her, be able to hear her speak, understand her language and have a minimum intelligence score of 3. Once the Promise is made, the Bellator's foe must make a will save, the DC of which uses the Bellator's intelligence modifier, or become constantly paranoid that she is about to strike.
Any round during which the Bellator's opponent chooses not spend at least a full standard action focusing on her, he is distracted by his worry and is subjected to a penalty against his attack rolls, skill checks, saving throws and AC equal to half the Bellator's class level, as well as a 30% spell failure chance. "Focusing on" the Bellator could mean anything from staring at her, to targeting her with a scorching ray, to running away in the opposite direction; the standard action just needs to be a reaction to her, that is focused on her.
This mind-effecting ability lasts for 1d4+half the Bellator's intelligence modifier rounds, at the end of which her foe collects his frayed wits and focusses on the task at hand. However, if the Bellator makes another Promise before her opponent recovers, the duration is re-set to the length of the new Promise, rather than the old one.

Basic Manifestations
Prattling Rancor Impulsion
prerequisite:-

Where the Bellator could make a Promise, she instead issues a Challenge, or even an insult, to her opponent, working him into a fit of pride and anger until he simply self destructs, with her help. The effects of issuing a Challenge are similar to making a Promise, except as noted here. The Bellator's opponent is no longer "distracted" by the her, nor is there risk that he will suffer penalties for ignoring her.
Because he won't ignore her.
Upon failing the will save against the Bellator's Challenge, her enemy must move within 15 feet of her and not leave by any means for as long as they are beheld by the Challenge. They also must enter combat with her, whether this means casting a spell or hitting her with an axe is entirely up to them.
The moment the misbegotten fool comes within the 15ft area of the Bellator's Challenge, he begins to feel the exhaustive side effects of fighting the Bellator on her own terms, and becomes fatigued. As a swift action the Bellator can try to worsen her foe's condition by forcing a fortitude save vs becoming exhausted. If her opponent is already exhausted, he can be made staggered (regardless of whether his nonlethal damage equals his current hit points) at the normal DC -3. An opponent who is already staggered and fails their last fort save (which takes a -6 to the dc) finally gives in to exhaustion and falls unconscious for 1d10+the Bellator's int rounds.
Every round that the Bellator's opponent is beheld by her Challenge, they suffer from a stacking -4 to will saves, and fort saves where they apply to this mythos.

Dread The Iron Muse
prerequisite:-

With the taking of this manifestation, the Bellator learns to give her Promise a new level of… intensity. Her every word drips with her intention to run this fool into the ground and take his head like a hunting trophy. She is no longer issuing a Promise; it is a Hunters Mark.
The effects of issuing a Hunters Mark is similar to a Promise, except as noted here. In order to force a will save associated with this manifestation, the Bellator's prey must be within 100ft of her, in addition to the usual sight and sound requirements. Furthermore, the Bellator's opponent is no longer "distracted" by her, nor is there risk that he will suffer penalties for ignoring her. Because he can't ignore her. He is terrified of her.
As soon as the Bellator's opponent fails the initial will save vs her Hunters Mark, he immediately becomes frightened. Furthermore, the Bellator's prey is rarely able to muster the grace or focus for a proper retreat, and is reduced to half his base land speed as he stumbles and trips over roots, corpses, and his own clumsy feet.
If the Bellator chooses to chase after her fleeing foe (meaning she moves, in his general direction, at either her own full base land speed or the total distance her prey moved during his last turn, whichever is lower,) each round she does so and stays within 60 ft of him inflicts a stacking -4 penalty on will saves. As a swift action the Bellator can further the frightened prey's terror by forcing a will save vs. becoming panicked. If her prey is already panicked the save DC is reduced by 3 and he becomes both panicked and shaken. foes who are both panicked and shaken make their save against the normal DC -6, but become Cowering and Helpless on a failure, for 1d8+the Bellator's int modifier rounds.
If at any point the Bellator's prey spends a full round unable to see or hear her, the fear effects inflicted by this mythos are reduced by one, and are reduced by one for every further round spent away from her, and the speed penalty disappears. however all will save penalties remain for the next 24 hours.
enemies immune to fear are immune to this mythos manifestation.

Advanced Manifestations
Civic Hostility
prerequisite:-

The Bellator can now use this mythos to target a number of enemies up to half her class level, and these enemies no longer need to understand her language, nor have an intelligence score in excess of 3. At level 10, the Bellator's skill for influencing her many enemies grows even greater, and she can target her full class level's number of people, but only if they all have a hit die count half that of the Bellator, or less.
Whenever the Bellator has more that one creature Challenged or Marked at a time, and she kills one of them, all the others are given an immediate -4 on will and fortitude saves (as they pertain to this mythos) that stack with any other penalties they would normally accrue.


anyway, that (mostly) done. what do people prefer to see next: a mythos for ranged combat (sort of a trick shot theme), or a mythos to let shield bearers tank AoEs?

This is still missing an advanced manifestation?

Hmmm I'll withhold critiquing it then. But it seems like to be much, much stronger than the other Fantastic Mythos. The combination of numbers and utility is just huge.

[commander panda]

No no, feel free to critique. I only wrote that becaus I have the notes for another manifestation, and was planning on writing out the details soon. I'm not really certain I want to include it anymore though, I think it's more rules than this mythos can handle before becoming blatantly over complicated..

Edit: also, ranged or shield mythos?

[Allnightmask]

Man, ranged mythos. I wouldn't mind either but I would like more ranged ones.

[ThreadNecro5]

The Mythic Vampire was not one of my brightest ideas. In fact, the power and flavor of it is just a mess.
I actually like the mythic vampire, even if the bite attack-granting mythos is very strong for when its available (maybe drop it by a single die and add a manifestation to increase it back to the original?). The whole fact how its associated titan was played up as an abomination i.e aberration, rather than a vampire as an undead, was an interesting spin on the idea.


That being said, why in the world would a Vampire also want to be the Sun?

lets face it, its not the vampire, its the player behind it, and lets admit that half the reason players do anything is just because they can, I should know. and also Tacitus's idea, I really want to play that now.

to anyone wondering how I was wanting an answer to such a stupid awesome idea, I was originally thinking of how to create Alucard from Hellsing ultimate in PC form and eventually found such an implausible curcumstance as the vampire holocaust sun was possable

[Arkanist]

Hello, all. I'm currently working on the Dimios, a mythic slayer/assassin. I just want some help getting the roster image right (It feels crooked) , and maybe coming up with ideas. Feel free to modify the roster image.

http://i.imgur.com/WhDNRx2.png

The roster (from the top left corner, than going clockwise): Shogo Makishima (Psycho Pass), Lucien Lachance (TES IV: Oblivion), Danzo Shimura (Naruto), a Vindicare Assassin (Warhammer 40k), Kei Kurono (Gantz), The Bride (Kill Bill), Emiya Kiritsugu (Fate/Zero), and Francisco Scaramanga (The Man With the Golden Gun).

EDIT: Fixed the image.

[Tanuki Tales]

So, my game got upgraded to being a Gestalt. Any suggestions on what would go well with the Teramach? So far I'm looking at pairing it with Midwoka's Olympian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13322347&postcount=11).

[Nanoblack]

So, my game got upgraded to being a Gestalt. Any suggestions on what would go well with the Teramach? So far I'm looking at pairing it with Midwoka's Olympian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13322347&postcount=11).

I would use warlock. They're one of the few casting classes that can be used while in a rage and offer lots of passive buffs that are always on while you punch stuff.

[Arkanist]

So, my game got upgraded to being a Gestalt. Any suggestions on what would go well with the Teramach? So far I'm looking at pairing it with Midwoka's Olympian (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=13322347&postcount=11).

Can you pair it with other Mythos classes? A Teramach mixed with an Olethrofex would be a pretty terrifying opponent to face.

[Tacitus]

An incarnum class might also be useful. Debatable about if you'd be able to shift Essentia while raging, but there are plenty of passive benefits to be had for Incarnate or Totemist.

[Tanuki Tales]

I would use warlock. They're one of the few casting classes that can be used while in a rage and offer lots of passive buffs that are always on while you punch stuff.


Can you pair it with other Mythos classes? A Teramach mixed with an Olethrofex would be a pretty terrifying opponent to face.


An incarnum class might also be useful. Debatable about if you'd be able to shift Essentia while raging, but there are plenty of passive benefits to be had for Incarnate or Totemist.

I'm using the Teramach with altered fluff to kind of play a Luchador. :smallredface:

The GM has also flat out said characters need to be somewhat socially acceptable (so nothing that city guards would want to detain and execute on sight) and he's leery of the inherent power of the Teramach (which is why using the Half-Troll template already got shot down, since it compliments and improves what the Teramach gives too much).

[Arkanist]

I'm using the Teramach with altered fluff to kind of play a Luchador. :smallredface:

The GM has also flat out said characters need to be somewhat socially acceptable (so nothing that city guards would want to detain and execute on sight) and he's leery of the inherent power of the Teramach (which is why using the Half-Troll template already got shot down, since it compliments and improves what the Teramach gives too much).

If socially acceptable is something that figures in this, then I don't recommend the idea of merging your rage avatar with a soul-warping necromancer. In fact, the fluff of Tome of Magic also says Binding is frowned upon in a burn-the-witch kind of way, so maybe a meldshaper is the way to go.

[Tacitus]

Are you going to be an agave farmer? You need a mask, and to be able to turn into a chicken.

[Tanuki Tales]

Are you going to be an agave farmer? You need a mask, and to be able to turn into a chicken.

We're building up the "Luchador" community as being a clan based confederacy similar to Star Wars's Mandalorians, with the original tennets and style being handed down to the Material Plane from a lone Celestial. They aren't performers but are very ceremonial and flamboyant in their actions and fighting style, with a duel between two of them being like a fight between peacocks.

The character is just another one of the young acolytes who are sent off into the world to perform some great feat of glory to bring back to their clan, which will earn them the right to a name, identity and mask (with failures remaining nameless and reduced to performing the grunt, day-to-day labor for the real "Luchadors").

Edit:

Also, I've flubbed my way into trying my hand at doing a Mythos class, The Calgurant (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?367133-quot-You-are-strong-child-but-I-am-beyond-strength-quot-Mythos&p=17949049). There's nothing there but a Mythos Point gaining method, a single class feature and one nameless Exceptional Mythos. I have ideas for Mythos and Excellencies, but I'm completely blank on naming them and I don't want to clutter up the class with nameless junk at the moment. I'd really appreciate any and all help over there in building this thing. :smallsmile:

[Sgt. Cookie]

You like Mythos? I like Mythos. Have two Mythos. They also have stories attached. Because I like stories.

Rage of the Fire Beast
[Expression]

In a time long past, in a kingdom now forgotten, people say, was a great beast. It's coming was like that of the sun, brightening the sky and scorching the land with it's passing. Armies were useless, magic was powerless and even devils from the hottest parts of hell burned to ash before it. What form it had none can say with any certainty. Some say it took the form of a wolf or lion. Others say it was shapeless, as flame is. But what they DO say for certain is that the Beast of Flame became angry.

The reasons for this are as varied as there are stars in the sky. One tale goes that a simple orphan boy tricked it into jumping into a nearby lake, hoping to quench the flames. Another says that a band of warriors of the King's guard provoked it and lured it into icy wastelands. While another says that a mighty Wizard tried to dominate the beast. All the stories say that each method appeared to be successful. At least at first. The lake began to boil into nothingness, the wasteland melted away and the Wizard lost control of it. And the Beast was angry. Very angry. And its rage was mighty, burning the Kingdom away. Leaving nothing but ash and cinders.

Whichever version of the tale you know, the rage of the Beast of Flame still resonates within you. Red hot anger flowing through your veins, waiting to be let out. With a few simple words, the Beast of Flame is made real. Its form, its anger and its insurmountable power. And it is all yours to command. But unleashing the Beast of Flame is not without cost, the story of the Beast, its fury, cannot be satisfied by simply "being".

As it burns your foes, so too it burns part of you, as fuel. Taking of your story, to make its rage real. No being can stand this for long, forcing you, in pain, to dismiss the Beast as quickly as your anger made it real.

Select a spot within 100ft. At this point, you manifest the Fire Beast, in all its great and terrible might. All enemies within 40ft of the Fire Beast take 1d6 points of Fire Damage per Episkeptis level, Reflex save for half damage. This damage ignores both Fire Resistance and Fire Immunity, as the Fire Beast's anger burns hotter than any ordinary flame.

Enemies that have taken damage continue to take half the damage dealt for 1d3+3 rounds. This damage, too, cannot be mitigated via resistance or immunity.

Using this Mythos Burns one point of your Narrative Power. However, if you Burn more points, the various Dice upgrade by one step for every point you Burn. The damage die upgrade as follows: 6 becomes d8, becomes d10, etc. The "Duration" die upgrades as follows: d3 + 3 becomes d4 + 6, d4 + 6 becomes d6 + 9, etc.)

Additionally, for every extra point you burn, you may roll an extra dice.

The initial Burned point, and all extra points, have a recovery time of one hour.

Basic

Guarded by the flames of hate: Even when you have not called upon the Fire Beast, you can still feel its hate coursing through you, protecting you. You gain Fire Resistance equal to (Your level X 5). At level 12, this upgrades to Immunity.

Flame within, flame without: Fire. It is the source of all life and it can be used to protect. Whenever someone makes an attack against you, you may, as an Immediate Action, make a Ranged Touch Attack against the attacker, dealing 1d6/2 levels of Fire Damage. Unlike the main effect, Resistance/Immunity affects this attack.


Tears of the Gentle Healer
[Expression]

There once was a girl, her birth was like that of any other girl but her childhood was not. She grew up in a small farming village, you see and she was tasked with keeping watch over the animals. Her task was to feed them, clean them and keep an eye on them, if they got sick or injured she was to tell her parents. The first two tasks were done without argument nor worry but her third... wasn't. Although she watched them all, they never seemed to grow ill or become injured. Although this confused the parents, they simply shrugged it away as some sort of divine favour. They were right, of course, but not in the way they thought.

About 8 years after the girl's birth, a cleric came to town. He was a simple man, wearing simple clothes, but his stance, tales of wonder, and knowing more than a smattering of Celestial, clearly marked him out. Like any good follower, the girl's parents invited the cleric into their home, providing him with food and shelter for a few days. During his time there the Cleric grew, not irritable but certainly... snappily curious. There was something about this farm that he ought to know, but couldn't put his finger on exactly what. The parents suggested that he examine the animals, as they never seemed to become ill or injured.

The cleric, devoid of other options, decided to check up on the animals. On his second day of study, he found what he was after. A cow had gotten loose, you see, and had quite a large gash in her side from a large splinter of wood. After watching for a few moments he was about to dismiss the idea and move on to another avenue of investigation. After healing the cow, of course, in return for the shelter and supplies. But before he had a chance to do so, he saw the girl walk up to the cow, place her hand near the gash and heal the wound. Probably better than he could have done.

This was it, this was what he had been looking for. The girl's unmatched raw potential for life was astounding. He knew immediately what had to be done. The cleric spoke with the girl's parents, explaining that her potential had to be fully realised, for the betterment of the world. It took a while, but after promising that the temple would take care healing duties for the farm (A promise that was kept), they agreed to allow their daughter to go with the cleric. So that one day her talents would be fully realised.

It took years of training and tutelage under various teachers, but eventually, the girl grew into her full potential and became known as Gentle Healer. Wherever she went, life flourished. Wounds were healed, illness was eradicated and even the passage of death became more bearable. One day, however, she came across a battlefield. She had heard that a war was about to be waged over a simple slight. She hoped that, if she got there in time, the Gentle Healer could prevent this war over words.

Alas, she was too late. But not by long. The bodies were fresh, the blood had yet to seep into the dirt, but worst of all, everyone had died. There was no victor in this war, only the defeated. It drove her to her knees, the pointlessness of it all, how a simple word spoken in haste could cause so much death. She began to weep and the sky itself wept with her. For how long the rain lasted, none can say, but it did not last for very long. For you see, for every soldier the waters of the rain touched, life was returned and wounds were sealed. The soldiers stood, confused. They looked around and saw that their "enemies" were alive too and stood to fight once more. But before they had the chance, they found a woman, crying in the mud. Asking to no one in particular, why this war was allowed to be. It was then, the soldiers knew, why they were alive. And the mistake they could not make again.

By taking upon yourself a small part of the grief the Gentle Healer felt at that moment, you can borrow a small part of her power. But to take upon the full burden of her grief would be perilous as it would turn the Episkeptis into a husk of sadness and despair. But even the small burden the Episkeptis lifts from the Gentle Healer takes a heavy toll.

When you use this Mythos, it begins raining in a circle that has a radius of (Charisma Modifier X 100)ft, centred on you. Despite the downpour, nothing in the area actually gets wet, however, all Allies (Including You) are affected by the following:

Cured of all the following Conditions: Ability damage, ability drain, blinded, cowering, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fascinated, fatigued, feebleminded, frightened, insanity, nauseated, panicked, paralysed, petrified, shaken, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. Additionally, any major trauma, such as a lost limb, is restored as if it were never lost.

Healed 20 Hit Points per Episkeptis Level. (Undead in range are damaged this amount, instead)

Allies within range that have been dead no longer than a number of rounds equal to the Episkeptis' level are brought back to life 0 Hit Points and healed 10 hit points per Episkeptis Level. The ally's body does not need to be "whole" for this to work, as their body is restored to completion due to the first effect.

Basic:

Ever present sadness: Once per encounter, you may use Mass Heal. Your Episkeptis level is treated as your caster level and there is no maximum hit point total you can heal.


On another note, I have an idea as to what the Episkeptis' "Shintai" Mythos will be. I don't have anything concrete, yet, but I have a starting point.

[Arkanist]

Okay, I've been working on my mythos class, and it's changing completely from an Assassin into some sort of energy manipulator. I think I'll have to alter the roster accordingly. Here's some class features, though.

Aetheric Radiance
Your body and soul are suffused with sheer astral energy. You gain a pool of "Essence" equal to your number of levels in Mythos-granting classes plus your Intelligence modifier, which you can use to empower your Mythos and class features. Whenever you spend essence, you radiate visible energy as per a Light spell until the end of your next turn. Essence that is spent is restored to its maximum after five minutes of uninterrupted meditation in a peaceful setting. Essence above your maximum vanishes after five minutes regardless. Lastly, the mystical power that courses through your veins wards you from harm, allowing you to add your Intelligence modifier to your AC while not wearing any armor.

Primeval Arcana
You wield magic beyond the scope of ordinary wizards, tapping into your essence to shape powerful spells called "Arcana". As longs as you have at least one essence remaining, you may use the following abilities. You may spend additional essence to increase their effectiveness.

Mystic Turning: This Arcana is a ranged touch attack dealing 1d6 plus your INT modifier points of untyped damage. You may choose to make this damage non-lethal without penalty. By spending Essence, you may increase the damage dealt by this by 1d6 per point spent.

Luminous Rebuke: This Arcana is a melee touch attack that knocks a Large or smaller creature back 10 feet plus 5 additional feet per Essence spent. An additional Arcana must be spent for each size category the target is above Large. If the target collides with a solid object, both things take 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage for every five feet it was prevented from travelling. At the end of the knockback, the target must make a reflex save versus the DC (10+1/2[Mythos Class Name] Level+Int Modifier) or fall prone.

[Lanth Sor]

I've been b-lining through the archikos getting the basics done so I can flesh it out. End goal is to have a full build path for each element, energy type and fey mentality.

Edit: the archikos is now playable. Ill be adding more options and yes part of those options will include melee.

[qazzquimby]

Could people check the compendium to see if everything is being represented correctly, and all material is up? I think there's at least one google doc full of mythos missing, and the class descriptions are not very helpful right now.

[commander panda]

ok, so i think i'll call my last mythos done untill further notice, though if anyone wants to PEACH it along with this one, i'd be much obliged.

since i only got two conflictiong votes on the shield vs ranged mythos question, i'm going to start with the one i already had mostly formulated.

this one definitly neads to be PEACHed. i'll post some of my own questions in red as i go through it. i'm also working on manifestation names, if anyone wants to help with that.

Wave Breaking Barrier Defiance
Prerequisite: Guarding Vallation Style

Whenever the Bellator is wielding a shield of heavy weight or larger, and makes a reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she may substitute her dexterity modifier for her strength, and add her shield bonus to the save. If she succeeds on the reflex save the Bellator takes no damage from the attack, as if she possessed the Evasion class feature.
Whenever the Bellator blocks this manner of attack, she can use her shield to repel some of the danger away from herself and her allies, creating a zone of relative safety from harm; within this area, all creatures are considered to have passed their reflex save for half damage (even if they would normally be unable to attempt the save, for instance due to unconsciousness.) If the creatures the Bellator is defending actually do pass the save DC, regardless of help from the safe zone, they instead take no damage as if they had the Improved Evasion class feature.
The size and shape of this safe zone depends greatly upon the attack the Bellator is warding off. If the attack is a cone or spherical in shape, the safe zone will be cone shaped, and if the attack takes the form of a cylinder, the safe zone is a line. If the attack is a line, it simply stops at the Bellator. The length of the safe zone is always the length of the initial attack, and always leads away from it's point of origin, starting at the Bellator's occupied squares.
The Bellator now also adds her shield bonus to her touch AC.

Basic Manifestations
Retributive Tidal Rush
Prerequisite:-
If the Bellator successfully avoids damage from an AoE attack using her shield, and the adversary who launched the attack is within half her base move distance, she may spend her move action for the next round as an immediate action to rush at her opponent and push some of the attack back at him.
When the Bellator attempts a maneuver like this, she completely forgoes the creation of her safe zone for the round (meaning the area attack will proceed as normal and effect her allies, regardless of her success. She still maintains her own her own defences, though.) As the Bellator moves she invokes attacks of opportunity as normal from everyone but the subject of her attack. At the end of her movement the Bellator makes a bash attack with her shield. If it hits, the area attack the Bellator just blocked is is expanded to include her target, and he must make his own reflex save (using the bellator's DC) against the attack.

Ocean Polished Mirror Defence
Prerequisite:-
The Bellator may reflect ranged touch attacks that failed to overcome her Armor Class a number of times per round equal to the higher of her Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers. To reflect the attack, the Bellator may either take her opponent's attack roll or make an attack roll of her own, using her opponent's attack bonus. This attack may target any creature the Bellator wishes, recalculating maximum range as if the Bellator were the attacks point of origin.

Beware The Traveling Bastion
Prerequisite: Weakling-Saving Gallantry manifestation of Guarding Vallation Style mythos
The range of the Bellator's Constant Guardian feat is extended by a further 5 ft and the benefits of the Dutiful Guardian feat now apply if the beneficiary is facing an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful reflex save.
If the feat's beneficiary is unable to legally occupy the Bellators's previous square, he is simply pushed back five feet from the spell's point of origin so the Bellator can occupy the old space. if that is also impossible, the Bellator simply occupies the same square as her beneficiary.

[Bluydee]

You know, I'm interested in making an entire mythos class devoted in heroism and justice. Mostly, the ideas I'm thinking of are the class having a comeback system, where, when things look bleak, he can use abilities akin to many things, such as the anime tropes of newfound power (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIH9uas-uPk), the new technique (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wa5OkdP3-r8), and the speech of friendship (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF6d3FVGNW0) where, inspired by the words of their ally, they get stronger and defeat their enemy. (last one is gurren lagann spoilers).

[Tempestfury]

Just going to leave this two updated Mythos here...

Zenith of the Nine Arts
[Exalted]
Requirements: The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep

The Bellator’s understanding of the Disciples of the Sublime Way has reached its peak, rivalling even the legendary Reshar in his ability to use the powers of the Sublime Way... and perhaps you might grow to become even stronger.

You gain the seventh level maneuvers and stances of each disciple that you have taken with ‘‘The [Discipline]’s Stem Flourishes’. Once per turn you may now use an additional strike or boost whenever you would use a strike or boost, and may may an additional strike or boost for each 5 levels above the level 20. Additionally, you may use a counter as a free action, up to the amount of additional strikes or boosts you can make.

Finally, the effects of The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep applies to all disciplines that have taken up to The [Discipline]’s Stem Flourishes, and the Passive Strike can now be selected from any second level strike. If you gain the ability to use eighth or higher level strikes, then the highest level of maneuvers that the Passive Strike may use increases to the highest level of maneuvers you can make -5.

Basic

Mastery of the Basics - You may now use a boost in place of a strike for your Passive Strike ability. Additionally, you may use an additional strike or boost with your Passive Strike, up to the number of half the additional strikes or boosts granted by this Mythos, rounded up.

Opportunity Exploitation - Whenever you make an attack of opportunity, you make use a 4th level strike instead of a normal attack. If you gain the ability to use eight or higher level strikes, you may instead using a strike of your highest level maneuvers -3.

Sublime Combat Fusion - Whenever you use a martial strike, you may make a free feint, trip, disarm, sunder or bull rush attempt before or after the strike. If you have the ability to make a free check after hitting an enemy, you instead gain a bonus to the check equal to your Bellator level/2.

Advanced

The Sublime Way - You may now use all eight and ninth level stances and maneuvers instead of only seventh level maneuvers and stances granted by this mythos.

Blazing Thunder Style
[Exceptional]

You gain Gunsmithing as a bonus feat.

Additionally, you gain a battered firearm of your choice. Similarly to the Gunslinger’s firearm. Everyone else treats the firearm as being broken, and if already broken they cannot use it at all. However, unlike the Gunslinger’s firearm, you may fix the gun, removing the battered condition at level six.

When wielding a firearm and attacking an enemy within penetration range, you may add your dexterity modifier to the damage rolls. Whenever a firearm misfires and gains the broken condition, you may spend a standard action to fix it.

Basic
Staining the Air Black - You gain the Rapid Reload feat for free, at level 6, you may double the effect of Rapid Reload. Whenever you fire a firearm more than once a round against an enemy within penetration range, you may fire an extra shot at that enemy.

One Shot, One Kill - The range of your firearm is doubled, and its base damage is increased as if it was one size larger. Whenever you manage to fell an enemy in a single shot, you may reload your firearm as a free action.

Advanced
Calculation Aiming - Instead of Dexterity, you may use your Intelligence modifier for attack and damage rolls using firearms.

Flashy Double Firing - You gain Two-Weapon Fighting for free, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites. You can treat Pistols as a light-weapon whenever beneficial.

Supreme Penetration - Whenever you attack an enemy within penetration range, you may ignore an amount of DR equal to your Dexterity modifier If you have the Calculation Aiming mythos, you may instead use your Intelligence modifier

And a new mythos... and yes. I love the Bellator.

The [Disciples] Seeds Stretch Far
[Excellency]
Prerequisite: The ‘[Discipline] Seed Awakening’ mythos, and either the ‘Arching Comet Style’ mythos or the ‘Blazing Thunder Style’ mythos.

When using a weapon that the Style Mythos applies to, you made treat it as a melee weapon for the purposes of martial maneuvers, as long as any attacks you make are within the first range increment of the weapon.

[Allnightmask]

I kind of like the new mythos, but the advanced manifestation "The Sublime Way" feels way too ridiculous. A sudden spike in power, even though the first discipline seed mythos sets a precedent for breaking that up. I think we should rebuild that. In similitude of the first tier.

[Tempestfury]

Heh, possibly. I still don't feel that having to spend exp on this final manifestation really fits...

[The_Final_Stand]

I agree with Allnightmask. 9th maneuvers for each Discipline seems... too much, even for an Exalted Mythos.

Also, as written, it grants 7th level maneuvers when the relevant disciplines may not even have the 6th level ones (those are granted with the Knowledge Sprouts with Branches and Perfect Violence Blossoms manifestations of [Discipline's] Stem Flourishes), so I'd recommend limiting the effects to those [Discipline]s that you have "Perfect Violence Blossoms" with.

[Tempestfury]

... Okay yes there is that possibility. But come-on. If you've gone THAT far in the Discipline chain, your going to grab the sixth level ones as well. If I really, really have to. Yes, I will add that as a prerequisite, but I'm not entirely sure its a problem... as for the Sublime Way granting 9th level maneuvers? Well, so? Your Exalted, Level's 19-20, your amazingly powerful, and the 9th level maneuvers will show that exceedingly well. If people REALLY think I need to... then yes, I will split it into two Advanced Manifestations for ecah level.

[commander panda]

i'm liking all the bellator mythos, tempest :smallsmile:. one thing though: steel avalanche style kind of renders flashy double firing redundant.

also, does really no one want to comment on the belletor's new AoE-shield-tanking-mythos, and anger/fear mythos?

[Tempestfury]

i'm liking all the bellator mythos, tempest :smallsmile:. one thing though: steel avalanche style kind of renders flashy double firing redundant.

also, does really no one want to comment on the belletor's, AoE-shield-tanking-mythos and anger/fear mythos?

The entire point though, is that flashy double firing means that you don't need to take steel avalanche style, without giving you the full TWFing feat-chain. You don't need to take two style mythos to get what you want.

... I missed them, sorry.

[commander panda]

The entire point though, is that flashy double firing means that you don't need to take steel avalanche style, without giving you the full TWFing feat-chain. You don't need to take two style mythos to get what you want.
fair enough. i suppose SAS still does it better anyway, if people want to go the extra mile for fancy trick shots.


... I missed them, sorry.

don't worry, the question wasn't aimed expicitly at you. i was kind of curious if people had just missed them, though. :smallconfused:

[ThreadNecro5]

iv just about finished writing excellency's for the Kreikiri but cant think of a name for this one:

(name)
Perquisites:-
You gain graft flesh as a bonus feat with the addition that you may ignore racial perquisites. You may also spend mythos points as well as GP, in a 1-to-1 ratio and in any combination when using the feat.

You may take this Excellency mutable times, choosing a new category of grafts each time.

anyone have any ideas?

[7th son of sons]

iv just about finished writing excellency's for the Kreikiri but cant think of a name for this one:

(name)
Perquisites:-
You gain graft flesh as a bonus feat with the addition that you may ignore racial perquisites. You may also spend mythos points as well as GP, in a 1-to-1 ratio and in any combination when using the feat.

You may take this Excellency mutable times, choosing a new category of grafts each time.

anyone have any ideas?

Flesh-Warping Lineage Exhonoration, OR, Abominable Sewn-Flesh Displayment

[Sgt. Cookie]

Idea occurred. Images gathered. Name decided.




The Epithymia

http://i.imgur.com/QJo8x0J.png

"This Thief is the absolute best there is. He is faceless, he could be anyone. No one has ever gotten a fingerprint, a footprint, not even a whiff of him. Even the Keepers are oblivious to him. He carries out his work with meticulous detail, leaves no evidence at all that he was there. He has quite a large self image but cares nothing about gaining a reputation. In fact, he wants to remain anonymous. But at the same time, he enters a mission with a heightened sense of paranoia. Nothing can go wrong, he will settle for no error or slip ups in his execution of the job. He is a Paranoid Perfectionist while working, nothing out of place or amiss when he is finished. Not even the Allusion of a Thought in anyone's mind that he was there. He is also discriminating. Some missions he might not take because he might leave a trail, clue or hint of something. People are wondering how these things happen or get stolen and who is doing it and how. But no one knows anything or has a clue."

In the time of the Gods of Law, The Sun rose and birthed the first day. The Sun reigned, unchallenged, as the Stars appeared. The first, lost to time, passed by. The second, Harmony, created all the Gods. The third, Erudition, became knowledge itself. And the fourth, End, brought the first night. Revealed the Moon and brought darkness to existence. But in that darkness, there was... something. It was not a star, called by the light of the sun. It was not a God of Law, unseen and unheard. It was anguish, loss. Its birth-scream one of longing, of grief.

Of Desire.

The loss of the Sun caused a thought to appear. It was, at first, meaningless. Barely more than an incoherent whisper with nothing but darkness and the Moon. But the darkness soon coalesced around that thought, amplifying it, adding a voice. The whisper grow louder, more comprehensible until the darkness could contain it no longer. Its anguished sound shocking the thought into self awareness, at first, and then horror soon after. "I want the Sun!" it cried, but as soon as Desire made his demand, he realised what he had done. He had given an order to the Sun.

Before it could respond, Desire fled. He ran and hid and hoped he was beyond the Sun's reach. On the Second day, the Sun rose and heard Desire's demand, but found only an echo of grief. Oblivious to the thing it had unwittingly created. It spent the second day existing. It's brilliance brightening the sky. But the bodiless demand unsettled him. And so on the second night, he told the stars to wait. To be a beacon when the Sun could not. But their light was weak. No matter how brightly they shone or how many was among their number, darkness still reigned supreme.

But for Desire, it was a gift beyond measure. His demand of the Sun made him wary. When darkness fell, he was started at the sky, but was soon calm. The light was not the Sun, it was something... else. Desire did not know what they were, only that he wanted them. And so he left his hiding place and went to the stars he saw. They were not the Sun, no, they were lesser beings. But they still held a light and Desire very much wanted light. So he stole some Stars. He stole and stole and stole until the Sun approached and Desire returned to his secret place.

When the Sun arrived, fully, he saw that some Stars were gone and he did not know where. The Sun questioned the Moon, but she saw nothing. He questioned the rest of the stars, all of them, but none saw anything. Their brethren were there but then they were not. Desire, in his hiding place, looked upon "his" stars. But he found them lacking. Individually, they were nothing but together, they were brighter. Much, much brighter. But together, they still paled in comparison to the Sun. But he wanted more, ever more, until he had a light as bright as the Sun. And so he waited, until night fell once more and he could, unseen and unknown, take the Stars to create for himself a knew sun. All his own.

And such is his Legacy, The Epithymia. They walk the earth, coveting all they see. Wealth, gold, jewels, they take it all. But they are not without allies. Darkness, anonymity and stealth. They take and steal and want, with only what has been lost proving that they exist at all.



Before you ask, no. I've not stopped working on the Episkeptis.

[Tempestfury]

So two questions... One, does this take inspiration from the Exatled mythos at all? And two, what do people think to the idea of a Zen-Monk idea? I get that the Kathados is a bit monkish, but its focuesed more on elements than the traditinol monk...

[Bluydee]

Anyone have ideas for fictional heroes, as in the example what they should be, refusing to back down and protect those they care about? I need 3 more to finish my banner.

[Temotei]

Anyone have ideas for fictional heroes, as in the example what they should be, refusing to back down and protect those they care about? I need 3 more to finish my banner.

Natsu Dragneel from Fairy Tail might do.

[Sgt. Cookie]

I come bearing gifts of Epithymia Mythos!

Sun Escaping Shadow Walk

Before the age of creation, the Sun shone eternal. Brightening almost every corner. Almost, being Desire's greatest ally. In his paranoia, Desire sought all those places were the Rebel Dawn did not touch and learned to move from shadow to shadow, under the light of the sun.

You gain Darkstalker (LoM) and Lightfeet (RotW) as Bonus Feats. You also gain the Slipping Past and Shrouded Dance Skilltricks. These bonus skill tricks do not take up a slot additionally you may use these Skill Tricks at will, rather than once per encounter.

Traversing The Paths Unknown

You gain Roofwalker as a Bonus Feat.

Basic:

Urban Pathway Epiphany: You gain Agile Athlete (RotW) and Leap of the Heavens (PhB2) as Bonus Feats.

Clamber upon statues: You gain Steady Mountaineer (RoS) as a Bonus Feat. You also gain the Extreme Leap, Speedy Ascent and Leaping Climber skilltricks as Bonus Skilltricks.

[Bluydee]

I had the brilliant idea, and here is what I am thinking of:


The Kalthorros
"I am the hope of the universe. I am the answer to all living things that cry out for peace. I am protector of the innocent. I am the light in the darkness. I am truth. Ally to good! Nightmare to you!" -Goku

http://i558.photobucket.com/albums/ss21/Bluydee/Kalthorros.png

When Titans walked the earth and the Sun was birthed from the dark, death and destruction strode, bringing doom to all. Disaster plagued the land. Monsters roamed, shaking the world with each mighty step. Many a person rose, lauding over others with their power, only to be defeated and shamed by yet another. It was an endless cycle, a dragon chasing its tail to the ends of time. Mind-numbing despair haunted the victims, following each on every step, the subjects of a neverending torment of famine and poverty. And as those petty emperors and mortal gods blinded them with their boundless arrogance and tyranny, a seed of hope was planted.

Among the men and women who walked the earth, there was one who saw this cycle as injustice, who refused to prostrate themselves to those who have no right to power and strength. Who dared to stand up and say no. The Hero was the one who saw the world as it was, as corruption and hatred, and believed, believed that he could save it, believed he could force the jaws of the world open and prevent it from consuming itself.

It is said that they were human in the most known rendition of the tale. Others among their own culture believe they were an elf, a dwarf, or, as even the most barbaric civilizations think, an orc. Whatever the case, they are long dead. But they live on, for every so often, someone sees injustice happen and refuse to let it stand, from a human who saw his parents die, to the dragon who's child is captured. They are known as the Kalthorros.

[Tempestfury]

Okay, that is an awesome opening... now what will define them?

[Kymme]

Zenith of the Nine Arts

I feel like this should just let you use an additional Strike or Boost 1/round as a free action, rather than doubling-up boosts and strikes. You could then have the 1/round thing scale up with levels.

While I appreciate you using the Passive Strike mechanic, I feel that you may be over-doing it a little bit. Having higher level strikes as your passive was never really my intention to begin with. I mean, if every attack you make is an Emerald Razor or Insightful Strike, it kind of makes a lot of lower level feat-based fighting styles completely wasted. So, instead of increasing the level of your Passive Strike, why not allow a Bellator to have multiple Passive Strikes at one time? The number can start at 2, then scale with levels.

I'm not quite sure how Mastery of the Basics is supposed to work. Does it let you always be effected by a Boost? If so, that's a little overkill, especially with your ability to spam all the maneuvers you know at any given time. Opportunity Exploitation is interesting, but could do with more clarification on how the scaling works. In fact, all your wording about scaling could do with some clarification. There is so such thing as 10th level maneuvers, so there ought to be some kind of mention in there about a cap.

I really dig Sublime Combat Fusion - it's really how I'd imagine a master of war to fight. I assume the second sentence is meant to work with Improved Trip and the like?


Blazing Thunder Style

I like this mythos, but you made some references to a rule I am not familiar with. What is penetration range? I assume it refers to Pathfinder firearm's ability to make touch attacks within their first range increment. You ought to call out that this mythos makes use of the firearms rules in Pathfinder, rather than the ones in the 3.5 DMG.


The [Disciples] Seeds Stretch Far

Me. Gusta. This is what the Maneuver-User Bellator was in desperate need of.


Immovable Object Resolution

I assume you mean the shield's shield bonus/enhancement bonus, as shields do not provide an armor bonus to AC. If so, then this feature seems perfectly reasonable.

Also, the 'safe-zone' function: does this mean that creatures in the safe zone effectively have Improved Evasion? Seems reasonable.


Basic Manifestations

These seem alright to me, but they're a little unclear.

[commander panda]

I assume you mean the shield's shield bonus/enhancement bonus, as shields do not provide an armor bonus to AC. If so, then this feature seems perfectly reasonable.correct. thanks for the catch.


Also, the 'safe-zone' function: does this mean that creatures in the safe zone effectively have Improved Evasion? Seems reasonable. not quite. the way it currently works is that they just auto succeed on the reflex save. that said, i had seriously considered boosting it to something like improved evasion. do you think that would be more of a fantastic, or legendary ability?


These seem alright to me, but they're a little unclear. do you mind elaborating?

[Adam1949]

I had the brilliant idea, and here is what I am thinking of:

-snip-


Personally, I think you should swap out a few of the iconics with other characters. There are just too many from Japanese media; it would be my suggestion to get a more well-rounded, all-encompassing banner for any Mythos class.

[Bluydee]

I couldn't really find many hot-blooded heros out of japan, so I'd appreciate any suggestions.

[vasharanpaladin]

I couldn't really find many hot-blooded heros out of japan, so I'd appreciate any suggestions.

Herakles, Leonidas, Kratos, Thor, Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner.

[ThreadNecro5]

Flesh-Warping Lineage Exhonoration, OR, Abominable Sewn-Flesh Displayment

nice, Il use that second one, and looking up the definition of the last word in the first name suggestion has inspired an excellency in and of itself that allows graft to be passed genetically.

also is it just me or is every other name of a Kreikiri-related anything got the word flesh in it?

also (again), on an unrelated note to the above that i'm just thinking out loud, as a thought yesterday I was starting to question may sanity while working on the Kreikiri after realizing I've unintentionally created a class with a half envisioned mythos that will (with sufficient time,effort, good dice roles, and raw material) allow you to turn the campaign setting into that of either 'Gyo' or 'Attack on Titan'. Or both at the same time. With he possibility of adding dead space to the mix. I don't know weather this is a good or bad thing, only that is an awesome thing :smallcool:.

Given how the class tiers measurement are based partly on how a class can change the world (as I recall anyway) I may have created tier zero (this last part is meant as a joke, clarifying due to how tone is unavailable).

-edit-
honestly I look at one name, decide its cool for an excellency and now it takes up two pages of a word document, well that homebrew for you isn't it :smallbiggrin:

[Kymme]

correct. thanks for the catch.

No problem. I'm always happy to help!


not quite. the way it currently works is that they just auto succeed on the reflex save. that said, i had seriously considered boosting it to something like improved evasion. do you think that would be more of a fantastic, or legendary ability?

I think that giving multiple people in an AoE improved evasion would totally be worth a Legendary Mythos. Considering most classes gain it around tenth level, gaining an AoE version of it seems appropriate for 13th level.


do you mind elaborating?

Sure!


Retributive Tidal Rush

So, this pretty much gives the Bellator an immediate action interrupt whenever someone would use an AoE on her allies? If so, the reflection seems a little bit overkill. Why not just have the adversary make a Concentration check (DC based off the damage the Bellator's attack dealt) to avoid having their ability interrupted?


Ocean-Polished Mirror Defense

Why not try changing the wording to this: 'The Bellator may reflect ranged touch attacks that failed to overcome her Armor Class a number of times per round equal to the higher of her Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers. To reflect the attack, the Bellator may either take her opponent's attack roll or make an attack roll of her own, using her opponent's attack bonus. This attack may target any creature the Bellator wishes, recalculating maximum range as if the Bellator were the attacks point of origin.' I think that clears this manifestation up nicely.


Beware The Traveling Bastion

I don't think this effect is necessary. Remember, the Dutiful Guardian feat already lets you do this. Maybe this manifestation could expand the range of Constant Guardian, or let you do a kind of Combat Expertise thing, but apply it to allies within the range of Constant Guardian?

[commander panda]

I think that giving multiple people in an AoE improved evasion would totally be worth a Legendary Mythos. Considering most classes gain it around tenth level, gaining an AoE version of it seems appropriate for 13th level.fair enough. i think i'll make this legendary after all.



So, this pretty much gives the Bellator an immediate action interrupt whenever someone would use an AoE on her allies? If so, the reflection seems a little bit overkill. Why not just have the adversary make a Concentration check (DC based off the damage the Bellator's attack dealt) to avoid having their ability interrupted?thats not exactly how it works. it lets the bellator spend her next move action early, to move/throw back the attack instead of activating her safe zone. it's not intended to activate off of her allies, but as it is currently worded this and the traveling bastion would end up meshing ridiculously well. i'll fix that. also, it doesn't interrupt the attack; everything is still on fire. the difference is that now everything includes Mr.Lich McWizard.

do you mind pointing out exactly what gave you this impression so i can correct it?


Why not try changing the wording to this: 'The Bellator may reflect ranged touch attacks that failed to overcome her Armor Class a number of times per round equal to the higher of her Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers. To reflect the attack, the Bellator may either take her opponent's attack roll or make an attack roll of her own, using her opponent's attack bonus. This attack may target any creature the Bellator wishes, recalculating maximum range as if the Bellator were the attacks point of origin.' I think that clears this manifestation up nicely.

thanks for this :smallbiggrin:. its a bit more powerful than the old version, but then the old version was intended for fantastic tier. this works perfectly.


don't think this effect is necessary. Remember, the Dutiful Guardian feat already lets you do this. Maybe this manifestation could expand the range of Constant Guardian, or let you do a kind of Combat Expertise thing, but apply it to allies within the range of Constant Guardian? i actually wasn't aware of this feat. unfortunately, the point isn't really to improve your allies AC, it's to let you jump in the way and activate a safe zone, basically 'taking a bullet' for them. that said, i could definitely make it less confusing sounding by basing it off of DG. bear in mind again though, that this isn't necessarily meant to mesh with retributive tidal rush.

[Tempestfury]

I feel like this should just let you use an additional Strike or Boost 1/round as a free action, rather than doubling-up boosts and strikes. You could then have the 1/round thing scale up with levels.

Why can't they double-up on boosts or strikes instead of using an additional strike and boost? Admittedly the doubling up would be stronger than the additional strike or boost. But doubling up is the capstone of the ToB base-classes. Save Crusader, as it doesn't have one. But I digress, if ToB double's up. Shouldn't the Bellator as the Zenith, be able to double up, but better?


While I appreciate you using the Passive Strike mechanic, I feel that you may be over-doing it a little bit. Having higher level strikes as your passive was never really my intention to begin with. I mean, if every attack you make is an Emerald Razor or Insightful Strike, it kind of makes a lot of lower level feat-based fighting styles completely wasted. So, instead of increasing the level of your Passive Strike, why not allow a Bellator to have multiple Passive Strikes at one time? The number can start at 2, then scale with levels.

I know the intention was not to have the passive strike allow higher-level mechanics, but I figured as the passive strike at level one was a Legendary Ability, so it made perfect sense to me to have the Exalted Ability allow you to take higher level strikes. Maybe I could reduce change it so your limit to level 2 only if your that scared. But I think making every attack an Emerald Razor or Insightful Strike won't make negate the 'lower level feat-based fighting styles', only enhance them. Hell at this level, Insightful Strike would be a nerf.

Having the level of Passive Strike increases seems to be a more natural progression to me, and increasing the number of active passive strikes in one of the basic manifestations already. So if I do change it to your suggestion, I'll have to think of a way to upgrade Mastery of the Basics in some way.


I'm not quite sure how Mastery of the Basics is supposed to work. Does it let you always be effected by a Boost? If so, that's a little overkill, especially with your ability to spam all the maneuvers you know at any given time.

Overkill? No its not. Letting your strikes be affected by a low-level boost instead of a low-level strike, is not overkill. It simply allows you to have more flexibility in what you can apply as a boost, as well as giving you a second strike/boost to add to the attacks.


Opportunity Exploitation is interesting, but could do with more clarification on how the scaling works. In fact, all your wording about scaling could do with some clarification. There is no such thing as 10th level maneuvers, so there ought to be some kind of mention in there about a cap.

... The scaling is fine. If you have 8th level maneuvers, you can use a 5th level strike. Because 8-3 = five. Also, I know there is no such thing as 10th level maneuvers (though, wouldn't Epic Maneuvers count?), but I'm not putting in a cap to allow for flexibility for homebrew in case someone decides to make 10th level maneuvers.


I really dig Sublime Combat Fusion - it's really how I'd imagine a master of war to fight. I assume the second sentence is meant to work with Improved Trip and the like?

Actually, its meant to work with abilities like Knock-Down. You know, hit the enemy, get a free trip attempt, etc?

Also. Kymme. What do you think to the Advanced Manifestation granting you both level 8 and level 9 maneuvers? Is that too much? Should I split it into two and make you pay to get the level 9 maneuvers, or should I limit it to level 8 only?


I like this mythos, but you made some references to a rule I am not familiar with. What is penetration range? I assume it refers to Pathfinder firearm's ability to make touch attacks within their first range increment. You ought to call out that this mythos makes use of the firearms rules in Pathfinder, rather than the ones in the 3.5 DMG.

... I'm already referencing the Gunslinger. 3.5 doesn't have a Gunslinger. Its pretty darn obvious. Same with the Gunsmithing Feat.

[Kymme]

fair enough. i think i'll make this legendary after all.

Splendiforous! The Bellator need more of those. (Speaking of that, I should probably finish my summoning and ultimate-showdown mythos for the Kathodos)


thats not exactly how it works. it lets the bellator spend her next move action early, to move/throw back the attack instead of activating her safe zone. it's not intended to activate off of her allies, but as it is currently worded this and the traveling bastion would end up meshing ridiculously well. i'll fix that. also, it doesn't interrupt the attack; everything is still on fire. the difference is that now everything includes Mr.Lich McWizard.

Oh, well, in that case, I don't think that the Bellator should have to spend any action. (Other than an immediate)


do you mind pointing out exactly what gave you this impression so i can correct it?

I see that you've changed it now to prevent ambiguity, but your first wording of that manifestation used the word 'reflect'. That's what gave me that impression.


thanks for this :smallbiggrin:. its a bit more powerful than the old version, but then the old version was intended for fantastic tier. this works perfectly.

You are quite welcome! :smallsmile:


i actually wasn't aware of this feat. unfortunately, the point isn't really to improve your allies AC, it's to let you jump in the way and activate a safe zone, basically 'taking a bullet' for them. that said, i could definitely make it less confusing sounding by basing it off of DG. bear in mind again though, that this isn't necessarily meant to mesh with retributive tidal rush.

The thing is, the benefits of Dutiful Guardian already let you 'take the bullet'. The problem is, you can only take the bullet for so many allies at any given time, and they all have to be within ~10 ft of you. Rather than creating an effect that is superior to and overlaps the benefits of Weakling-Saving Gallantry, why not just straight up buff it? (Note, I am a firm believer in Occam's Razor)


Why can't they double-up on boosts or strikes instead of using an additional strike and boost? Admittedly the doubling up would be stronger than the additional strike or boost. But doubling up is the capstone of the ToB base-classes. Save Crusader, as it doesn't have one. But I digress, if ToB double's up. Shouldn't the Bellator as the Zenith, be able to double up, but better?

Well, first of all, nobody in ToB gets to double up strikes. And, power aside, doubling up just feels like a clumsy way to go about giving the Bellator more bang for it's buck.


I know the intention was not to have the passive strike allow higher-level mechanics, but I figured as the passive strike at level one was a Legendary Ability, so it made perfect sense to me to have the Exalted Ability allow you to take higher level strikes. Maybe I could reduce change it so your limit to level 2 only if your that scared. But I think making every attack an Emerald Razor or Insightful Strike won't make negate the 'lower level feat-based fighting styles', only enhance them. Hell at this level, Insightful Strike would be a nerf.

Increasing it to level 2 would be appropriate for Exalted, I suppose, but not much higher than that. Insightful Strike was just an example. With the addition of homebrew disciplines, the sheer amount of options for your Passive Strike becomes pretty ridiculous, and the chances of finding a strike that makes your attacks completely ridiculous increase dramatically.


Having the level of Passive Strike increases seems to be a more natural progression to me, and increasing the number of active passive strikes in one of the basic manifestations already. So if I do change it to your suggestion, I'll have to think of a way to upgrade Mastery of the Basics in some way.

You could always have Mastery of the Basics increase the DC of your maneuvers to 10+1/2 character level+higher of Str or Int. That'd certainly be a buff to low level maneuvers.


Overkill? No its not. Letting your strikes be affected by a low-level boost instead of a low-level strike, is not overkill. It simply allows you to have more flexibility in what you can apply as a boost, as well as giving you a second strike/boost to add to the attacks.

Allow me to break down my thought process: Bellator not having any real need for swift actions + double up on Boosts + always-on Boost = Overkill. Swapping out your Passive Strike for a Passive Boost is a little bit of a rough transition, because Strikes activate as part of an attack and Boosts typically require a separate action to activate.


... The scaling is fine. If you have 8th level maneuvers, you can use a 5th level strike. Because 8-3 = five. Also, I know there is no such thing as 10th level maneuvers (though, wouldn't Epic Maneuvers count?), but I'm not putting in a cap to allow for flexibility for homebrew in case someone decides to make 10th level maneuvers.

I disagree, because in the case of this mythos, there really is no scaling. When you take this Mythos, it is pretty much just an instant boost to the top of the maneuver ladder. You can't climb higher than ninth level maneuvers (Epic Maneuvers have no level), so basing something like this, that a Bellator gets at the end of their career, off of the highest level maneuvers they can use seems a bit silly, to me. Just picture the level of maneuvers you want and set it at that.


Actually, its meant to work with abilities like Knock-Down. You know, hit the enemy, get a free trip attempt, etc?

Ah, well then it seems that I was confusing the two feats. Carry on.


Also. Kymme. What do you think to the Advanced Manifestation granting you both level 8 and level 9 maneuvers? Is that too much? Should I split it into two and make you pay to get the level 9 maneuvers, or should I limit it to level 8 only?

Ah, what the heck. Might as well keep the 8 and 9 increases together. Primarily because most disciplines only get 2 8th level maneuvers and 1 ninth level one, and typically they aren't that far apart in power level.

[QUOTE=Tempestfury;17999269]... I'm already referencing the Gunslinger. 3.5 doesn't have a Gunslinger. Its pretty darn obvious. Same with the Gunsmithing Feat.

You are referencing the Gunslinger, which is a Pathfinder Class. You should call out somewhere that this particular mythos uses some of the Pathfinder rules, to avoid confusing people who only know 3.5.

[Tempestfury]

Okay... made some tweaks... hopefully their good to go into the document now.

Zenith of the Nine Arts
[Exalted]
Requirements: The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep

The Bellator’s understanding of the Disciples of the Sublime Way has reached its peak, rivaling even the legendary Reshar in his ability to use the powers of the Sublime Way... and perhaps you might grow to become even stronger.

You gain the seventh level maneuvers and stances of each disciple that you have taken with ‘‘The [Discipline]’s Stem Flourishes’. Additionally, you can make a strike or boost as a free action once per round, and make a counter as a free action once per round. For every 4 levels about level 20. You may make an addition strike/boost and counter as a free action per round.

Finally, the effects of The [Discipline]'s Roots Grow Deep applies to all disciplines that have taken up to The [Discipline]’s Stem Flourishes, and the Passive Strike can now be selected from any 2nd level strike. In addition, you may now use 2 Passive Strikes at once. For every 4 levels above level 20, you may may have an addition Passive Strike.

Basic

Mastery of the Basics - You may now use a 1st or 2nd level boost in addition to your passive strikes. Additionally, 3rd level maneuvers no longer have saves - their effects happen automatically.

Opportunity Exploitation - Whenever you make an attack of opportunity, you may use a 5th level strike instead of a normal attack.

Sublime Combat Fusion - Whenever you use a martial strike, you may make a free feint, trip, disarm, sunder or bull rush attempt before or after the strike. If you have the ability to make a free check after hitting an enemy, you instead gain a bonus to the check equal to your Bellator level/2.

Advanced

The Sublime Way - You may now use all eight and ninth level stances and maneuvers instead of only seventh level maneuvers and stances granted by this mythos.

Blazing Thunder Style
[Exceptional]
Special: This feat uses martial from Pathfinder as its basis instead of 3.5

You gain Gunsmithing as a bonus feat.

Additionally, you gain a battered firearm of your choice. Similarly to the Gunslinger’s firearm. Everyone else treats the firearm as being broken, and if already broken they cannot use it at all. However, unlike the Gunslinger’s firearm, you may fix the gun, removing the battered condition at level six.

When wielding a firearm and attacking an enemy within penetration range, you may add your dexterity modifier to the damage rolls. Whenever a firearm misfires and gains the broken condition, you may spend a standard action to fix it.

Basic
Staining the Air Black - You gain the Rapid Reload feat for free, at level 6, you may double the effect of Rapid Reload. Whenever you fire a firearm more than once a round against an enemy within penetration range, you may fire an extra shot at that enemy.

One Shot, One Kill - The range of your firearm is doubled, and its base damage is increased as if it was one size larger. Whenever you manage to fell an enemy in a single shot, you may reload your firearm as a free action.

Advanced
Calculation Aiming - Instead of Dexterity, you may use your Intelligence modifier for attack and damage rolls using firearms.

Flashy Double Firing - You gain Two-Weapon Fighting for free, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites. You can treat Pistols as a light-weapon whenever beneficial.

Supreme Penetration - Whenever you attack an enemy within penetration range, you may ignore an amount of DR equal to your Dexterity modifier If you have the Calculation Aiming mythos, you may instead use your Intelligence modifier

[Adam1949]

Blazing Thunder Style
[Exceptional]


You gain Gunsmithing (Pathfinder, UC) as a bonus feat.

Additionally, you gain a battered firearm of your choice. Similarly to the Gunslinger’s firearm. Everyone else treats the firearm as being broken, and if already broken they cannot use it at all. However, unlike the Gunslinger’s firearm, you may fix the gun, removing the battered condition at level six.

When wielding a firearm and attacking an enemy within penetration range, you may add your dexterity modifier to the damage rolls. Whenever a firearm misfires and gains the broken condition, you may spend a standard action to fix it.

[B]Basic
Staining the Air Black - You gain the Rapid Reload feat for free, at level 6, you may double the effect of Rapid Reload. Whenever you fire a firearm more than once a round against an enemy within penetration range, you may fire an extra shot at that enemy.

One Shot, One Kill - The range of your firearm is doubled, and its base damage is increased as if it was one size larger. Whenever you manage to fell an enemy in a single shot, you may reload your firearm as a free action.

Advanced
Calculation Aiming - Instead of Dexterity, you may use your Intelligence modifier for attack and damage rolls using firearms.

Double-Down Pistolaro- You gain Two-Weapon Fighting for free, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites. You can treat Pistols as a light-weapon whenever beneficial.

Supreme Penetration - Whenever you attack an enemy within penetration range, you may ignore an amount of DR equal to your Dexterity modifier. If you have the Calculation Aiming mythos, you may instead use your Intelligence modifier for this purpose.

Try this instead? After all, some feats you mention are also in Pathfinder and are changed slightly, if I recall correctly.

[Tempestfury]

Nyeh, sure. That works.

[commander panda]

ok, so i redid the last manifestation of my Wave Breaking Barrier Defiance mythos. anyone have any final thoughts? otherwise i'm gonna call this one done.


Wave Breaking Barrier Defiance
Prerequisite: Guarding Vallation Style

Whenever the Bellator is wielding a shield of heavy weight or larger, and makes a reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she may substitute her dexterity modifier for her strength, and add her shield bonus to the save. If she succeeds on the reflex save the Bellator takes no damage from the attack, as if she possessed the Evasion class feature.
Whenever the Bellator blocks this manner of attack, she can use her shield to repel some of the danger away from herself and her allies, creating a zone of relative safety from harm; within this area, all creatures are considered to have passed their reflex save for half damage (even if they would normally be unable to attempt the save, for instance due to unconsciousness.) If the creatures the Bellator is defending actually do pass the save DC, regardless of help from the safe zone, they instead take no damage as if they had the Improved Evasion class feature.
The size and shape of this safe zone depends greatly upon the attack the Bellator is warding off. If the attack is a cone or spherical in shape, the safe zone will be cone shaped, and if the attack takes the form of a cylinder, the safe zone is a line. If the attack is a line, it simply stops at the Bellator. The length of the safe zone is always the length of the initial attack, and always leads away from it's point of origin, starting at the Bellator's occupied squares.
The Bellator now also adds her shield bonus to her touch AC.

Basic Manifestations
Retributive Tidal Rush
Prerequisite:-
If the Bellator successfully avoids damage from an AoE attack using her shield, and the adversary who launched the attack is within half her base move distance, she may spend her move action for the next round as an immediate action to rush at her opponent and push some of the attack back at him.
When the Bellator attempts a maneuver like this, she completely forgoes the creation of her safe zone for the round (meaning the area attack will proceed as normal and effect her allies, regardless of her success. She still maintains her own her own defences, though.) As the Bellator moves she invokes attacks of opportunity as normal from everyone but the subject of her attack. At the end of her movement the Bellator makes a bash attack with her shield. If it hits, the area attack the Bellator just blocked is is expanded to include her target, and he must make his own reflex save (using the bellator's DC) against the attack.

Ocean Polished Mirror Defence
Prerequisite:-
The Bellator may reflect ranged touch attacks that failed to overcome her Armor Class a number of times per round equal to the higher of her Dexterity or Intelligence modifiers. To reflect the attack, the Bellator may either take her opponent's attack roll or make an attack roll of her own, using her opponent's attack bonus. This attack may target any creature the Bellator wishes, recalculating maximum range as if the Bellator were the attacks point of origin.

Beware The Traveling Bastion
Prerequisite: Weakling-Saving Gallantry manifestation of Guarding Vallation Style mythos
The range of the Bellator's Constant Guardian feat is extended to include the Bellator's threatened squares (not counting threatened squares gained via reach or larger than normal weapons) and the benefits of the Dutiful Guardian feat now apply if the beneficiary is facing an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful reflex save.
If the feat's beneficiary is unable to legally occupy the Bellators's previous square, he is simply pushed back from the spell's point of origin until he is on a square where the Bellator can stand between them. if that is also impossible, the Bellator simply occupies the same square as her beneficiary.

[Kymme]

Seems alright to me, except for one thing. 5 ft is not a whole lot of extra range, and this IS a Legendary Mythos after all. I'd say that the range of CG should be increased by the Bellator's melee reach. And if that seems like too much, then maybe just increase it by half reach (rounding down to the nearest increment of five).


I've been thinking about some more blasty-type mythos for the Kathodos. What would you guys say to an excellencythat enhances Wrathful Dragon-Shot by giving it the Power Surge feat from Dragon #313 and one Metabreath feat of the Kathodos' choice (that they qualify for), as well as letting them use their Dexterity in place of Constitution for meeting pre-requisites for Metabreath feats?

And then I'd probably put in a Legendary Mythos that lets the Kathodos use Breath Effects like the Dragonfire Adept.

[commander panda]

Seems alright to me, except for one thing. 5 ft is not a whole lot of extra range, and this IS a Legendary Mythos after all. I'd say that the range of CG should be increased by the Bellator's melee reach. And if that seems like too much, then maybe just increase it by half reach (rounding down to the nearest increment of five).

bear in mind that this rang increase stacks with he one from Weakling-Saving Gallantry. might still be to short though:smallannoyed:. what do you mean by melee reach? it sounds like you mean threatened squares, but then the idea of letting the belletor move farther becaus he's holding a spear seems a bit weird to me :smallconfused:.

maybe a number of additional squares equal to int? that might be too much though.

[Kymme]

bear in mind that this rang increase stacks with he one from Weakling-Saving Gallantry. might still be to short though:smallannoyed:. what do you mean by melee reach? it sounds like you mean threatened squares, but then the idea of letting the belletor move farther becaus he's holding a spear seems a bit weird to me :smallconfused:.

maybe a number of additional squares equal to int? that might be too much though.

Oh, my bad. :smallredface: I forgot that Weakling-Saving Gallantry increases the range of CG based on size.

And I wasn't really thinking about reach weapons. That's kind of kiddie stuff when the Bellator is concerned. :smalltongue: I meant stuff like 'Step, Step, Cut' and 'Standing Against the Horde', both of which increase the Bellator's reach by letting them:


...take a few quick steps, strike, and return to your starting space with exceptional swiftness.

[commander panda]

Oh, my bad. :smallredface: I forgot that Weakling-Saving Gallantry increases the range of CG based on size.

And I wasn't really thinking about reach weapons. That's kind of kiddie stuff when the Bellator is concerned. :smalltongue: I meant stuff like 'Step, Step, Cut' and 'Standing Against the Horde', both of which increase the Bellator's reach by letting them:

hmm.... i guess i could use that. i know you weren't really thinking of reach weapons, but it seemed like an easy exploit that needed to be brought up. i guess i could just say that it doesn't stack with reach weapons. does handling larger than normal weapons ever increase reach? because that seems like something that i should cover as well.

Edit: made changes. any new thoughts?

[Tempestfury]

Giving the Kathados a super-breath fits and would be nice to play.

[commander panda]

i'm not going to have much interest in the kathodos until its fully playable, but if it doesn't already have breath weapons and metabreath feats it needs them now.

btw Kymme, my updated version of F*** chivalry is finished, if you want to swap out the one in your mythos document.

i'll repost it for convenience
The Crooked Fist Of Pragmatism
prerequisites: -

The Bellator has become adept at attacking her foes in ways they can neither easily predict nor easily defend against. Whenever the Bellator hits an enemy who is denied their dexterity bonus to their AC, she deals a number of d4s in bonus damage based on her class level. This maneuver is not precision damage and works on enemies that would normally be immune to techniques like sneak attack.
This mythos is considered equivalent to sneak attack for the purpose of qualifying for feats, prestige classes and for determining her effectiveness against enemies with uncanny dodge.


Bellator level
Bonus Die


Level 1
1d4


Level 3
2d4


Level 5
3d4


Level 7
4d4


Level 9
5d4


Level 11
6d4


Level 13
7d4


Level 15
8d4


Level 17
9d4


Level 19
10d4



basic
Nerve-Ending Confluence Crush
prerequisites: -
The Bellator knows very well where to hit a man so it hurts.
As a standard action (but not part of a full attack) the Bellator may preform a special unarmed attack to strike her opponent where it really really hurts. If the Belletor is not proficient with unarmed strikes, the attack invokes AoO's and deal nonlethal damage as normal. No damage is dealt if the attack lands successfully, but the target must make a fort save or be rendered flat footed for a number of rounds equal to half the Bellator's strength modifier, even if its nonlethal damage doesn't exactly equal its current hit points. If the Bellator kicks him again before he recovers, the time is reset and he is also staggerd, even if its nonlethal damage doesn't exactly equal its current hit points.
This attack can only be used on enemies with a discernible anatomy who feel pain. undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures are unaffected.
despite the name, this strike is not limited to nut shots, and is therefore not limited to men. If used against a women, the Bellator might just give her a strong kick to the stomach, so she keels over.

Ground And Pound
prerequisites: -
The bellator gains Improved Grappling as a bonus feat.
Once the Bellator has pinned an enemy to the floor during a grapple, she can attack with light and one handed weapons, draw weapons while pinning and escape another's grapple while pinning. Attacks while grappling no longer incur a -4 penalty. Any round in which the Bellator strikes a pinned and struggling opponent, they take a penalty on their escape artist and grapple checks, equal to her strength modifier.
Finally, while the Bellator's opponent is pinned, he does not gain his dexterity modifier to his AC against her attacks.

Concealed Sword In Silt Offensive
prerequisites: -
If the Bellator is standing on loose and moveable ground (sand, mud, gravel, sewage, water, ect) she can kick the loose material into an opponents square within her natural reach, avoidable with a reflex saving throw, as an attack action. If her opponent fails the save the muck gets in his eyes, and everyone he sees is treated as having partial concealment from him until he takes a full round to remove the grime (this provokes an attack of opportunity.) the target needs to actually rely on their eyes to be effected.
Obviously, if the material used would have other negative effects on contact with the Bellator's target, such as acid, they are also applied if the attack hits.
The Bellator's enemy does not gain his dexterity modifier to his AC until he clears his eyes.

[Tempestfury]

Would be nice to see it finished.

[commander panda]

ok, so i'm just making some minor edits to my Pin And Bug Restrainment mythos. i actualy like some of the stuff kymme did with this one, but disagree with others. its more or less the same as the original, though.

Pin And Bug Restrainment
prerequisites:-

As standard action, while wielding either a piercing weapon or a weapon that could conceivably do piercing damage (such as a longsword,) the Bellator can attempt to drive her weapon through her opponent and pin them to a nearby surface. This surface can be an adjacent wall/pillar/etc, the floor, and any other surface deemed reasonable by the DM. (for example, the DM could rule that it would be possible for a Bellator to pin someone's hand to a table with a dagger, but only if the hand was already on said table.)
to use this attack, the Bellator must first declare their intention to do so. the target may attempt a reflex save to avoid being pinned in place. regardless of weather the manuver works, the attack will deal half damage. If successful, the opponent cannot move out of their square, and takes the initial damage dealt again whenever they attempt a reflex saving throw (which they take a -10 on.)
This ability stays in effect as long as the weapon pinning the target stays embedded in both them and the surface behind them. Removing the Bellator's weapon deals the initial damage all over again.

basic
Hammer And Nail Body Security
prerequisites:-
when the bellator nails down her foe, she has the option to make a strength check and add half her class level to drive her weapon deeper. Whenever someone attempts to remove the weapon they must beat the strength check to be successful. damage is dealt to the pinned person regardless of whether the check is beat or not.

Rough And Tumble Acupuncture
prerequisites:-
When stabbing her blade through a fool, the Bellator has the option no do no damage, or nonlethal damage, rather then the normal half damage. This could be done by simply pinning their clothes to a wall, or the Bellator could slide her blade smoothly between muscle and bone in a way that barley makes her target bleed. Her choice.

advanced
Corpse Stacking Needle Charge
prerequisites:-
Gain Improved Bullrush as a bonus feat. If she already has that, the Bellator is now considered one size larger for the purpose of making bullrush checks.
The Bellator's unsettling talent for nailing her adversaries in place reaches new heights, as she learns fresh and exiting ways to trap enemies on the blade of her sword.
Whenever the Bellator successfully lands a Pin And Bug Restrainment strike, rather then run her weapon into a nearby surface and trap the fool, she can make an immediate bullrush attempt to push him in the direction of her choice. If successful, the Bellator can follow along with her opponent and keep him impaled on her blade, moving him at a rate of 5 ft for every 1 point by which she beat his opposing strength check. If, on their way, the two enter another creatures square, the Bellator can make an additional bullrush attempt against them too. if that succeeds, they are also impaled, and come along for the ride (do not recalculate distance for new enemies.) At the end of her turn, regardless of how far she travels, the Bellator must drive her weapon into a surface and pin her new friends.

Big Game Bug Hunting
prerequisites:-
Gain Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot as bonus feats.
The Bellator may now use the Pin And Bug Restrainment mythos, and its assorted manifestations, with ranged piercing weapons (excluding weapons with extremely fine ammunition, like a sling or pistol.)
If the Bellator attempts to use Corpse Stacking Needle Charge in this manner she does not need to move into her opponents space, nor move with her opponent. However, she can only move her opponent directly away from her, and only in a straight line; any ability that would normally allow the Bellator to move during a bull rush does not apply if she is using a ranged weapon. Enemies moved in this manner move at a rate of 5 ft for every two points by which the Bellator beats their strength check.

[Kymme]

@Tempestfury

In that case, I'll get right on it.

@commander panda

I'll put those in the Mythos doc post-haste!

[Vauron]

Concerning the Kathados and metabreath feats, they don't work. The Kathados can do elemental damage in a cone, its just not a breath weapon. Overwhelming Dragon-Suspire and Wrathful Dragon-Shot don't have a time between breathes measured in rounds so they can't benefit from metabreath feats. Currently, the only way to boost the damage from the cone or the basic blast is the 'frak the undead' excellency I posted a while ago. It'd be fairly easy to apply the Dragonfire Adept's breath effects to the Kathados, but several would be largely pointless as an already existent mythos exists to cover them.

I haven't really been doing any homebrew based on WDS and ODS, though perhaps some of the Warlock's essence invocations could also be mined. On that note, what would you think of a mythos that let you make iterative attacks with WDS? That would be relatively quick to bang out compared to the problem's I've had wording Current Controlling Caliph and making All-Sky Sovereign special.

[commander panda]

@commander panda

I'll put those in the Mythos doc post-haste!

the you kindly, good sir. :smallsmile:

[Kymme]

Concerning the Kathados and metabreath feats, they don't work. The Kathados can do elemental damage in a cone, its just not a breath weapon. Overwhelming Dragon-Suspire and Wrathful Dragon-Shot don't have a time between breathes measured in rounds so they can't benefit from metabreath feats. Currently, the only way to boost the damage from the cone or the basic blast is the 'frak the undead' excellency I posted a while ago. It'd be fairly easy to apply the Dragonfire Adept's breath effects to the Kathados, but several would be largely pointless as an already existent mythos exists to cover them.

I haven't really been doing any homebrew based on WDS and ODS, though perhaps some of the Warlock's essence invocations could also be mined. On that note, what would you think of a mythos that let you make iterative attacks with WDS? That would be relatively quick to bang out compared to the problem's I've had wording Current Controlling Caliph and making All-Sky Sovereign special.

First of all, what are Current Controlling Caliph and All-Sky Sovereign? Are those two Mythos you've got in the works? If so, I'd love to see them.

My good sir, it seems you haven't heard of the most amazing feat ever: Power Surge. In short, this little gem (found in the 313th issue of Dragon Magazine) lets you put some additional 'tiny buffs' onto a supernatural ability that you can use more than 3/day, in exchange for giving the ability a 1 round recharge.

So, yeah. They do work. :smalltongue: I absolutely adore DFAs (probably my favorite class, outside of Arcane variant Swordsage), and I run that feat on pretty much every single one I play.

[Vauron]

First of all, what are Current Controlling Caliph and All-Sky Sovereign? Are those two Mythos you've got in the works? If so, I'd love to see them.

My good sir, it seems you haven't heard of the most amazing feat ever: Power Surge. In short, this little gem (found in the 313th issue of Dragon Magazine) lets you put some additional 'tiny buffs' onto a supernatural ability that you can use more than 3/day, in exchange for giving the ability a 1 round recharge.

So, yeah. They do work. :smalltongue: I absolutely adore DFAs (probably my favorite class, outside of Arcane variant Swordsage), and I run that feat on pretty much every single one I play.

Dragon Magazine? Honestly, no, I don't count Dragon Magazine. I don't have access to it, and know little of what is in it. It may be appropriate to create a mythos that does something similar, but I'm not concerned at the moment about the blasting mythos.


Current Controlling Caliph and All-Sky Sovereign* are indeed mythos I am making.** CCC is a prerequisite for All-Sky Sovereign and deals with wind manipulation when above water and water manipulation when underwater. CCC is basically a battlefield control mythos, while All-Sky Sovereign is weather control. I know what I want for CCC, I'm just stumbling on the wording.


*I only now noticed that I can't abbreviate All-Sky Sovereign on this forum.
**Making very slowly.

[commander panda]

ok, i have been meaning to do this for ages. here is a rewrite of all my old excellencies. i scraped the ones that i though were to much like weak exceptional mythos and tried to make them more passive, overall (for the most part.) i added a new one too.

also, @kymme, i really really liked a lot of the changes you made to the excellencies of mine you put in your mythos documents, and may have flagrantly ripped them off. just so you know :smalltongue:.

i dont expect a blow by blow review of these from anyone, but comments would be appreciated.

Short Haft, Long Haft
Prerequisites: combat reflexes feat

If the Bellator is wielding a reach weapon that would normally not threaten her adjacent squares, she can now switch between treating it as a reach weapon and having it threaten her adjacent squares as a swift action.
If she is wielding a weapon that can do bonus damage when it is set against a charge, she can now set it as an immediate action

Imposing General's Command
prerequisites:-

Whenever the Bellator issues an order to a subordinate (meaning a cohort, follower, hireling, or really anyone who considers her "the boss.") they benefit from a moral on D20 rolls equal to one fourth the Bellator's class level until the task is carried out. the task must be something achievable in one hour, such as "storm that castle", "steal this trinket", or "seduce that monster".
These benefits are only available only as long as the subordinate is actively working to carry out the Bellator's orders.

'Elementary' Battle Discernment
Prerequisites: 5 ranks in spot, int 13

For the Bellator, war is like the written tongue. It's meanings are hinted in the scars of crippled veterans and the ashes of burnt out wheat fields, but where the words are most clearly read is on field of battle, where whole stories are written of their own accord.
When the Bellator comes across a place where at least 2 creatures have been fighting she can spend (1d10-intelligence modifier) minutes inspecting the area, and discern the following details:
-The creature types of the combatants. This works on all creature types but outsiders and intelligent undead, since they usually have similar bodies and mannerisms to other, more common, creature types.
-Who won. This can be on either a personal scale between a few people, or on the scale of a full battle.
-A vague guess at the skill of the combatants. the Bellator is only able to discern the levels of the combatants within these categories.



Combatant Level/hit dice


Level 1-5


Level 6-10


Level 11-15


Level 16-20



If the Bellator is of level 20 or higher, she can expand the above table to include levels 21-30, then 31-40 and so on as she hits the ascending caps.

Riding Lightning
Prerequisites: 6 ranks in Ride and handle animal

The Bellator is an expert rider, and knows better than most how to push a mount too, and beyond, it's limits. Whenever the Bellator is in the saddle, her mount gains a boost to it's base land speed (and flight/swim/climb speed, if it has any of those) equal to 10ft/Bellator level. The Bellator's mount also knows how to use its speed to pass by danger unmolested. The mount gains a bonus to AC and reflex saves equal to +1/10ft moved in it's previous turn, and gains the evasion class feature in any round that it has moved at least 40ft.

Adrenaline Fuelled Battle Sustenance
Prerequisites:-

Whenever the Bellator downs an enemy in combat with a number of hit dice equal to or greater than her's she gains her class level in temporary hit points. When she down an enemy below with hit dice below her's, she gains half her level in temporary hit points.
These temporary hit points will stack on each other up to a sum of 10 applications, and she can only hit the cap once; after that point she stops gaining temporary hit points for the remainder of the encounter. the hit points will remain until ten minutes after the encounter ends, at which point the Bellator comes down from her massive adrenaline rush and all the damage dealt comes rushing back to her.
This excellency will not trigger unless the combined hit dice of all enemies involved are at least equal to her own.

The Warrior's Reputation Precedes Her
Prerequisites: Bellator level 5

Wherever the Bellator goes, her reputation precedes her. All NPC's she interacts with who could realistically have heard of her are moved one category up or down the attitude scale (it should usually be up, but there may be places where the Bellator is seen unfavourably.) If the Bellator has been especially helpful or active in a certain area, the people there may be moved up or down two categories, instead of one.
If a Bellator has an inherently negative reputation it does not necessarily mean that people will be moved down the attitude scale. They may volunteer to help the Bellator out of fear, as much as respect or love.
This effect can be negated by concealing the Bellator's identity, for instance by using a bluff or disguise check.

All Seeing Sentinel Eyes
prerequisites:-

The Bellator is a guard when she needs to be, and when she undertakes such a task none can pass her un-noticed.
Any time when the Bellator is standing still and not taking any actions, she may choose to benefit from dark-vision, tremor-sense and see invisibility out to a range of 100ft+10ft/int modifier. The Bellator may not focus on anything other than her watching while using this ability, and will tune out any unconcerning distraction (such as casual speech or random peasants at work) as if it wasn't there.
Using this ability in combat takes a full round action and disallows swift immediate or free actions. Obviously this provokes attacks of opportunity.
The Bellator may choose to ready an action one round, then activate her All Seeing Sentinel Eyes in the following round and keep it active while holding the action, but she will lose the excellencie's benefits when she releases the action.

Ungental Man-Handling Chastisement
prerequisites:-

The Bellator no longer takes a -4 penalty for dealing non lethal damage with a lethal weapon.
In edition, anyone she has non-lethally beat to half their total hit points, within the past 24 hours, can be cowed just with the threat of further punishment. The Bellator gains bonus to intimidate checks against such individuals equal to her intelligence modifier.

EDIT: @Kymme ok, i just hunted down my mythos within your document, and wanted to thank you again. its nice to see them next to all the other mythos in a place where they wont get lost.
i do have one pedantic and slightly vain request though. could i get my name next to pin and bug restrainment? i go a bit OCD about consistent titling.

EDIT, EDIT: thanks!

[Kymme]

Dragon Magazine? Honestly, no, I don't count Dragon Magazine. I don't have access to it, and know little of what is in it. It may be appropriate to create a mythos that does something similar, but I'm not concerned at the moment about the blasting mythos.


Current Controlling Caliph and All-Sky Sovereign* are indeed mythos I am making.** CCC is a prerequisite for All-Sky Sovereign and deals with wind manipulation when above water and water manipulation when underwater. CCC is basically a battlefield control mythos, while All-Sky Sovereign is weather control. I know what I want for CCC, I'm just stumbling on the wording.


*I only now noticed that I can't abbreviate All-Sky Sovereign on this forum.
**Making very slowly.

Ah, well, to each their own. I'm just using Xefas' suggestion of finding mechanics to suit what you're looking for. I think that applying Metabreath feats is a good way to increase power and versatility on the Kathodos' few blasting mythos, and Power Surge is the feat to tie it all together.

Also, I like the concept of CCC and All-Sky Sovereign. (*snrk*) That little fact has probably just made my day.

Please, feel free to send 'em my way if you'd like a second opinion on them.

[Vauron]

I do go with that advice generally, although Fundament Invoking Behest is the main example of the mythos I have released. All-Sky Sovereign and Life-Water Benediction both cleave closer to preexisting mechanics than many of the mythos I have released so far.

As to my comments on Dragon Magazine, I simply have no access to it and little interest in hunting it down.

[commander panda]

btw, Kymme, there's no rush or anything but if you could swap out the excellencies of mine in your document for the new ones that would be great.

[Kymme]

btw, Kymme, there's no rush or anything but if you could swap out the excellencies of mine in your document for the new ones that would be great.

As you wish.

[Sgt. Cookie]

Hey! Guess what? Epithymia got a new Mythos!

Phantom Echo of Avarice
Prerequisites: -

When you take this Mythos, you disappear from history. Your name, face and deeds performed vanish not only from memory, but from all places. Letters with your true name, paintings (or other images) of you or tapestries representing your deeds become damaged, irrevocably lost or otherwise rendered unrecognisable. Your "Truename" (As per ToM) does not cease to be, but "changes" to be little more than a vague sound, making it impossible to use it to identify you (But that doesn't stop people who are right in front of you from affecting you with Truenaming. Their mind just doesn't make the link between that sound and you if they're not looking at you).

The exception to all of this, of course, are acts of thievery. Although they will forgot "who" did it, no one's going to forget that the Emperor's grand safe had been opened and the crown jewels had been taken, for example. You will be forgotten, but remembered by what you stole.

This does not only affect the past, but the future as well. People who see you will forget you existed, depending on your level of contact. A guard who caught sight of you for a few moments is going to forget you were ever there almost as soon as you turn the corner. But a man you've viscously tortured for several days is going to be able to describe you. In VERY general terms, of course (Such as, "man", "short hair" and "pale skin".). Family members (Or other people YOU tell your true name to, such as fellow Party Members) will still be able to recognise you.

This ability is also useful in a fight (As hinted at above). Enemies who are not actively focused on you* "forget" you're there. This is effectively Total Concealment, except that your enemies cannot purposefully attack random squares in an attempt to find you. AoE's targeted at others can still hit you (You are physically there, after all), but you still get the benefits of the Miss Chance. This is not "true" concealment so you cannot use it to make Hide Checks.

Your opponents still "know" that you're there they just don't know where, unless they're looking at you. As such, combat won't end as soon as attention is shifted from you, they do remember enough to try and find you. Once an opponent has lost track of you, it must spend a Standard Action to try to "find" you again, provided that they are able to focus on you. If an opponent cannot find you after 1d3+1 turns, then if forgets you exist at all.

*This includes, but is not limited to: Not having Line of Sight to you, engaging in Melee combat with someone else, making a Ranged attack or casting a Single Target Spell against someone else and all Standard and Full Round actions that provoke AoOs that are not targeted at you.

[(int) darkness]

The Umbramendax: Mythic Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369117-3-5-Mythos-%93Beware-lest-you-lose-the-substance-by-grasping-at-the-shadow-quot-PEACH)

I made this.

It's reasonably complete up until level 13 (where you start to gain Legendary Mythos), but I'm running out of ideas to add. :p

PEACH please.

[ThreadNecro5]

im part way through a rather large mythos, im wanting a second opinion on it before I finish manifestations just to make sure there are no glaring errors or abusable uses for it.

Creeping flesh-fortress (legendery)
Perquisites: (to be decided)
As a full round action, you may spend 50 graft points to produce a ‘flesh node’ a small ball of unusual matter that is anchored to the ground by tendrils that is placed in an area within the Kreikiri’s reach. This node produces a thick carpet of material similar to strands of butchered or necrotic flesh over any surface it is on, including up walls and ceilings, that expands 5ft outwards in all directions for every 12 hours that the flesh node exists until the mass covers a 60ft radius in all directions from its point of origin. Once it has expanded to this point it slows to spreading 5ft every d6 days. You may concentrate as a full round action to grant yourself 5ft blindsight from everywhere this material grows (as long as it is sourced from your flesh nodes rather than another Kreikiries), including across planes.

This fleshy material and the flesh nodes themselves may be destroyed through a sunder combat manoeuvre. The standard material has 10hp/inch and a hardness of 5. The nodes have 10hp +10 for every Kreikiri level you have and have a hardness of 10. Should the node be destroyed the material they support will begin to deteriorate by having all squares of the material be destroyed at a rate of 1hp/minute to all squares within 5ft of the nodes prior position, and then once they are destroyed, affecting all the squares within 5ft of those positions, and so on until all of the material is destroyed or the space overlaps that of another node. In addition to the above the flesh node and the matter it produces possess a vulnerability to fire.

By default the material produced will spread on a horizontal plane until it reaches a point where it must travel vertically in either direction, and keep spreading, and has a default thickness of an inch where it has spread. You can influence the material by spending a minute in concentration and choosing one of the following options:
• The material may be made thickener or thinner by one inch.

• The area may grow 1ft in a direction of your choice, including straight up, in which case a small inch thick wall begins to form that can be thickened with additional applications of this option, or even across open spaces.

• May harden the material, which increases its HP/inch to 30 and its hardness becomes 10, but prevents further growth from that point. Each use of this affects the most external one-inch layer of the material on that square. Reversing this is preformed identically to originally applying this effect. This hardened material may be worked like metal and often resembles a carapace of some creature or similar form.

• May alter a 5ft area to contain a simple mechanism that allows for the opening or closing of a gap in the material. Possible uses include creating doors, chests, windows, ect. These may only be opened or closed by you and those you choose to allow. Doing so is a mental action that uses up a swift action.
The effect takes 2d4 hours to apply and at any given use you may only affect a number of individual 5ft squares equal to your level but the same square may be affected more than once/use. Each time you apply one of these effects it resets the time until the area next grows.

[Kymme]

Phantom Echo of Avarice

Cool! This is thematic, powerful, everything a Legendary mythos should be. I think you've hit the nail right on the head with this one.


The Umbramendax: Mythic Rogue (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?369117-3-5-Mythos-%93Beware-lest-you-lose-the-substance-by-grasping-at-the-shadow-quot-PEACH)

I made this.

It's reasonably complete up until level 13 (where you start to gain Legendary Mythos), but I'm running out of ideas to add. :p

PEACH please.

Yay! I love me some Mythos rogue type stuff. I'll see if I can post on your thread with critiques for the individual Mythos.


Creeping Flesh-Fortress

So, at the moment, it lets you pull a Song of Saya (MEAT. EVERYWHERE.) and gain limited omnipresence in your little flesh-world? Looks good to me. Can't wait to see what kinds of shenanigans the manifestations let you pull.

[(int) darkness]

Yay! I love me some Mythos rogue type stuff. I'll see if I can post on your thread with critiques for the individual Mythos.

Thanks, I'd really appreciate it.

[Tempestfury]

Question, for the The [Disciples] Root's Grow Deep, where it mentions the 'discipline’s initial feat', is it talking about homebrew disciplines that require a feat to be taken, or are they talking about feats like Ironheart Aura? (For Iron Heart obv.)

[Kymme]

Question, for the The [Disciples] Root's Grow Deep, where it mentions the 'discipline’s initial feat', is it talking about homebrew disciplines that require a feat to be taken, or are they talking about feats like Ironheart Aura? (For Iron Heart obv.)

Ironheart Aura, Desert Wind Dodge, Stone Power, all that jazz. I couldn't really think of an existing term for it, so I made one up.

[Sgt. Cookie]

What did people think of the intro for the Epithymia, anyway?

[Tempestfury]

Ironheart Aura, Desert Wind Dodge, Stone Power, all that jazz. I couldn't really think of an existing term for it, so I made one up.

The tactical requirement feat? Still, that means I got more feats to add to my list...

[7th son of sons]

Looking for some advice on the Epic Bellator "Equivocal to the Holocaust Sun" Prestige Class, in a few areas.

1: A Name for the Class Itself (Concept is a Bellator who knows of the origins of his class, and mythic classes in general, and has taken it upon himself to become the "Author" of the Bellators "story")

2: Ideas for Sempiternal Mythos

and 3: How does one structure Epic PRC's as Tables? I can barely figure out how to structure regular classes.

[Vauron]

Honestly the idea of an 'Author' prestige class for the Bellator never made sense to me. The only thing that I can think of which may be appropriate would be to allow you to make changes to mythos, letting you exert control over lesser Bellators.

[7th son of sons]

Honestly the idea of an 'Author' prestige class for the Bellator never made sense to me. The only thing that I can think of which may be appropriate would be to allow you to make changes to mythos, letting you exert control over lesser Bellators.

It's known as the Author Anthol because they are, in essence, so advanced and so dedicated to the ways and stories of the Iron Mythos that they have reached a level of Awareness that they are, in a sense, becoming the Titans of Conflict. Not a singular Bellator, but every Author Anthol, together, going above and beyond what would be possible for a single mortal Bellator, working in stride to accomplish the truly impossible. The Iron Mythos is special in that it has no existing Titan, and these "Authors" know it, and strive to take the place of one, however foolishly such a dream may be.

[Vauron]

'Becoming a Titan' feels like the narrative space of an Epic Destiny, not something you'd ever actually play. Honestly, what exactly could the Author prestige class do that you could not with the Bellator? Essentially, you seem to want the 'Author' prestige class to be a Premise of the Iron Titan. Outside of manipulating other Bellators, I guess the class could deal with the creation of Notions.

I also feel 'Conflict' is much too all encompassing for any class. As an example, Iron Chef or American Idol would be 'conflicts' but definitely aren't something I consider appropriate for an Iron Mythos. Cooking a lot of stuff quickly to feed troops? Sure. Cooking a meal so great that it brings tears to the eyes of all who eat it? Nope, not happening.

[Kymme]

What did people think of the intro for the Epithymia, anyway?

I read it. I liked it, too.

Vauron, I feel the need to point out that the Holocaust Sun (the Prestige Class that the Author-Anthol is based off of) tells the story of a Teramach that ate the sun of the prime material plane. I don't think that calling it 'something you'd never actually play' is a valid complaint when you look at it alongside its inspiration. They're both pretty ridiculous, and meant to be so. :smalltongue:

7th son, are you at all familiar with Exalted? In Exalted, there is a group of Infernals (hell-rockstars with the powers of titans) known as Devil-Tigers that seek to become Pseudo-Titans. I don't know if that helps, but it might serve as some inspiration.

As for Sempiternal Mythos, you could always borrow my War Grows Anew. Now that I've increased it's tier, there's no way for the stock Bellator to gain it, which I think is a cryin' shame.

I have no idea how tables for Epic Classes work. :smallfrown: Sorry, but I won't be much help there.

[Nanoblack]

Why make the author mythos directly attached to a class in the first place? Who is to say you couldn't make it a supplementary mythos along the lines of the vestige or some of the mythic races? Seems like something anyone with a stake in a myrhic class should have access to...

[Vauron]

Why make the author mythos directly attached to a class in the first place? Who is to say you couldn't make it a supplementary mythos along the lines of the vestige or some of the mythic races? Seems like something anyone with a stake in a myrhic class should have access to...

An 'Author' for the Bellator comes from the fluff that there is no titanic entity that it draws on yet. The Kathados has the Omphalos, the Teramach has the Monster, and the Olethrofex has the Abomination. The Author would seek to become the equivalent for the Bellator.

[Tempestfury]

So, made a few tweaks to Zenith of the Nine Arts (found in the doc), and when looking over my newest character, I came to a realization.

The Bellator doesn't have a Fencing Style mythos, does it?

[Kymme]

Fleeting Footsteps Style = fencing in a nutshell. Exceptional fencing, mind you. There is still room for a Fantastic or Legendary fencing mythos.

[Tempestfury]

Yeah... I suppose that it is... idk, that seems to be more of a skirmisher than just fencing.

[Lanth Sor]

Is anyone currently working on a paladin archytype class? I started one and don't want to step on toes. Mine will be up after its mostly hammered out, after I lost my way with the archikos I'm not making that mistake again. Its called an Agios and it gains mythos points buy being metro man when roxanne riche finds out he's alive.com

[Allnightmask]

I think any other paladin like classes were abandoned. Do It.

On that note, Do any of you who quit making their classes. Could we get your old material posted on the board? Some of those builds sounded super cool and they may be a good jumping off point for others in addition to satiating my want for more xefas crafted classes as I wait..

[ThreadNecro5]

So, at the moment, it lets you pull a Song of Saya (MEAT. EVERYWHERE.) and gain limited omnipresence in your little flesh-world? Looks good to me. Can't wait to see what kinds of shenanigans the manifestations let you pull.

iv just looked up what Song of Saya is and yes, that is essentially what that is going to do with the planet (and beyond), I think a character may have earned being added to the banner when its done), and yes the whole convert the planet into monsters thing in one of the ends of the visual novel is going to be an option when this is combined with another mythos im doing soon (by now that mythos will also be able to replicate attack on titan, dead space and gyo, potently all at once. (WHAT. MONSTROSITY. HAVE. I. CREATED.).

the mythos itself was first inspired by the corruption from dead space combined with some parts of the virus from Prototype.

as far as manifestations ive go these so far (id have got more but id got distracted writing a race, then watched a horror movie that inspired another), further ideas would be appreciated:

Sentinels (spoilerd for length)
When you are altering the area of flesh your node produces you may spend five squares worth of alterations to produce one of the following objects. Each object is anchored to the substance produced by the node, and is destroyed if removed. it can also make some actions as if it was a creature, as listed in its description. When sundering such an object you must roll to hit against its armour class as normal, and this AC is its normal, touch and flat footed AC. When you create each effect you may spend graft points to give it a bonus on all attack rolls and CMB, damage rolls and/or AC equal to a +1 bonus in a single category per 3 points spent.

Guardian:
The guardian is a large sack of flesh that contains a number of tentacles. Every round the guardian will attack an enemy target, as is chosen by its creator or simply the closest target if the creator is unavailable with one of the following attack forms once/round.
Melee: 2 tentacles +5 (1d6+2 plus grab)
Ranged: spike +5 (1d6, crit:19-20)
The guardian has an AC of 16, 5HP/HD you possess and a hardness of 10
SQ: constrict (tentacles, 1d6+2) reach: 40ft (tentacles)
CMB: +4

Nest:
The nest is a pod that contains three tendrils that end in luminescent sacks which house a number of explosive worm-like creatures. Every round the Nest will fire three shots, as detailed below, at one or more enemy targets, as is chosen by its creator or simply the closest target if the creator is unavailable, defaulting to firing all three at a single creature.
Should the nest start its round with an enemy creature within 15ft it immediately retracts into an armoured shell at its base, only becoming active again once a creature is not within 15ft of it at the start of its round. When within the shell it gains resistance 5 to all elements, gains +4 armour class, and increases its hardness by two.
Ranged: pod +5 (2d4+2, +1d6 fire)
The nest has an AC of 14, 10HP/HD you possess and a hardness of 10

Cyst
The cyst is a stump-like creature that produces a number of explosive pods and hurls them at an enemy target (range increment is 10ft), as is chosen by its creator or simply the closest target if the creator is unavailable with the following attack form, usable every 1d4+1 rounds. Unless otherwise directed it will refuse to target an area that would hit an allied creature.
Ranged: explosive sack +4, 15ft radius (3d6+2) DC18 REF save for half
The nest has an AC of 14, 10HP/HD and a hardness of 10

You can only produce one of these objects every d12 days and it takes d20 hours to develop.
Commanding these objects is a free action used when concentrating to use your blindsight from the matter produced through this mythos.

Uneven footing
The terrain that makes up the material hampers the movement of those whose presence is unwanted. This reduces the base speed of all creatures other than you, creatures you’ve created (through any means available to you) and those you specifically allow, by 10ft.

Everywhere at once
When you are concentrating to benefit from your blindsight, you may transport yourself to any area you can see and that is covered by the fleshy material, as a full round action.

Always watching
You are now always considered to be concentrating on the matter produced by your flesh nodes for the purpose of this mythos when it would benefit you (i.e your blindsight is always active and such).

Extrude flesh
You may, as a full round action, choose to destroy a single 5ft by 5ft block of the material created by one of your nodes in order to gain two graft points.

as an aside im worried this class may cause the Apocalypse (or meatocalypse?) too easily, but then again people say similar things about shadows.

also for some reason im now imagining a BBEG duo of an Akastarepti and a Kreikiri he hired for landscaping and such, here is how id imagine it would go:

Akastarepti: I demand a palace formed from the flensed flesh of my enemy!

Kreikiri: but just this week iv made one from your friends, subjects, each member of your former adventuring party, and your tongue collection. and by the way I should mention that the ones formed form your adventuring party have legs, are still fully sentient, and can fly.

Akastarepti: <glares at Kreikiri>

Kreikiri: WHAT!, you knew what you were in for when you hired me.

[Lanth Sor]

Devotion Emblazened Sheild
Prerquisite: Ardent Agis Bastion and 3 knight's mythos

When the Agios takes up a sheild of masterwork quality no better no worse they grant an sacred bonus to the shield based on their level. The shield gains a +1 sacred bonus the bonus increases by +1 at the 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th levels.

PlZ peach ill be adding some advanced after work.

[vasharanpaladin]

I think any other paladin like classes were abandoned. Do It.

On that note, Do any of you who quit making their classes. Could we get your old material posted on the board? Some of those builds sounded super cool and they may be a good jumping off point for others in addition to satiating my want for more xefas crafted classes as I wait..

I ended up stalling out on the Luminarch (which I guess would have been more of a deconstructed paladin), but I can honestly say I didn't get much farther than the banner before slamming headlong into the question of how to use Light as the basis for everything. Got a few answers in the previous discussion thread but ultimately forgot about it. :smallredface:

[THEChanger]

I'm still occasionally working on the Aethenos, though I've lost contact with GreaserFish a long while back. No real progress in some time, but I am thinking on it!

[Tacitus]

Hah, on the subject of a Meatpocalypse, the Occassus had something similar going for it, though it was more limited in scope and started with merely augmenting willing or unconscious creatures into walking slabs of metal (aka Composite Plating), then to voltron into towers, then ultramegazord into fortresses, and then the last was to drag the whole thing to another plane aware from your enemies because screw this place everything is scary.
Not that some overlap is a bad thing, especially as it has different motivations and mechanics. The Occasus is very much a Mystic Chirurgeon, because surgeon is too modern. >.> I just have way too many negative aspects of healing and the fear of death in it so far. >.>

On the subject of abandoned projects, the Occasus is certainly not abandoned, I'm just very slow. I've probably posted the whole thing already in the last discussion thread, but never got enough input to push me very far along. Not ready to make a thread for it though, not by far.

[Seventeen]

walking slabs of metal (aka Composite Plating), then to voltron into towers, then ultramegazord into fortresses

That actually sounds a lot like the power-progression of Alchemical Exalted. They go from human-like magical robot people to giant mechas to entire cities.

What was the theme of the Occasus?

[Tacitus]

The Occasus fears death and pain and isolation, so they do everything in their power to promote life and safety, even if that means stitching together your friends in both body and soul, grafting armor to their body so it can never be lost or stolen, and surrounding themselves with friends and subdued foes turned friends... which may not be conscious because they are the building blocks of your life palace.

Main mechanic is Mania, which is a number that represents the degradation of their sanity in their pursuits by choosing Manic mythos or using neutral Mythos in Manic ways. For example, the armor grafting Mythos is neutral, unless you use it on someone against their will.

The less paranoid Mythos include a line just for healing damage, stitching willing allies souls together to share healing between them, and other totally not creepy things I swear.

[Tempestfury]

So, I'm currently working on four new Bellator mythos (yes Bellator is my favourite class, how could you guess?), and their a bit... different from the norm as their all intlinked with one another. Its a rather basic way of linking them together currently, but I want to make the bond stronger, and I'm hoping to grant them manifestations which can only be chosen if you have one or more of the other mythos... but I'm not completely sure what. So, does anyone have any suggestions/ideas?

Water of the West
[Exceptional]

This is a ‘Elements of the World’ mythos. Whenever you take an Elements of the World mythos, the other Elements of the World mythos climb a rank in mythos. (e.g. taking this mythos as an exceptional mythos will make all the other Elements of the World mythos become Fantastic mythos).

You gain the ability to perform trip attempts with any weapon, though you take a -4 penalty if you do. Whenever you successfully hit an opponent, you can make a free trip or disarm check, though at a -4 penalty.

At levels 6, 11 and 16. You gain a +2 bonus to trip and disarms checks.

Air of the North
[Exceptional]

This is a ‘Elements of the World’ mythos. Whenever you take an Elements of the World mythos, the other Elements of the World mythos climb a rank in mythos. (e.g. taking this mythos as an exceptional mythos will make all the other Elements of the World mythos become Fantastic mythos).

Whenever you make an attack against an enemy, you may make an extra attack at your full-attack bonus. If you do, all attacks this round take a -4 penalty to attacks. At level 6, this penalty decreases by 2. At level 11, you can make an extra two attacks, but take the full -4 penalty if you do. At level 16, the penalty for both options decreases by 2.


Fire of the South.
[Exceptional]

This is a ‘Elements of the World’ mythos. Whenever you take an Elements of the World mythos, the other Elements of the World mythos climb a rank in mythos. (e.g. taking this mythos as an exceptional mythos will make all the other Elements of the World mythos become Fantastic mythos).

Your weapons are treated as one size large for the amount of damage they can do. At level 6, you may add your 1/2 your strength modifier as a bonus to damage for all your attacks. At level 11, your weapons are treated as two sizes larger. At level 16, your weapons are treated as three sizes larger, and you can add your full strength modifier for all your attacks.

Earth of the East
[Exceptional]

This is a ‘Elements of the World’ mythos. Whenever you take an Elements of the World mythos, the other Elements of the World mythos climb a rank in mythos. (e.g. taking this mythos as an exceptional mythos will make all the other Elements of the World mythos become Fantastic mythos).

You may add your strength modifier to your armour class, up to a total of Bellator level. At levels 6, 11 and 16, you also gain an additional +2 untyped bonus to your armour class. At level 20, you may add your full strength modifier to your armour class, even if it exceeds your Bellator level.

[Seventeen]

So, I'm currently working on four new Bellator mythos (yes Bellator is my favourite class, how could you guess?), and their a bit... different from the norm as their all intlinked with one another. Its a rather basic way of linking them together currently, but I want to make the bond stronger, and I'm hoping to grant them manifestations which can only be chosen if you have one or more of the other mythos... but I'm not completely sure what. So, does anyone have any suggestions/ideas?


The Air one seems significantly better than the rest. I'd take that and not bother with the rest at all, which doesn't sound like a good outcome. Other than that I've got nothing.

In any case, what's the story behind these?

[Tempestfury]

Extra attacks is useful I admit, which is why its got a bigger attack penalty than the norm. As for taking just Wind and not the others? Well, I need suggestions of manifestations that give you very strong reasons to take the others. Maybe a Wind/Fire one, that lets you do more damage for each successful hit?

And wada mean, what's the story?

[Sgt. Cookie]

Epithymia Excellency GO!

Sifting Through the Horde
Prerequisites: -

When looking at an object you instinctively know it's rough GP value to it's largest integer. For example, you were looking at an object worth 12,300 GP, you would know it was worth roughly 10,000 GP. An item that was worth 192,500 GP would ping as being worth around 200,000 GP. You are still well aware that this is a rough estimate, so Appraise checks will still be required to find out it's actual value.

This ability functions on objects you've never seen before, an object someone is trying to deceive you into believing is more valuable (A green glass bauble, for example, would ping as being almost worthless despite how much you believe it to be an Emerald), illusionary treasure (Wouldn't even ping) or other such objects.

Additionally, when looking at a large "chunk" of treasure (Such as a Dragon's Horde or a large, well filled vault) you instinctively gravitate towards the most valuable portions, even if you can't physically see the valuables.

This ability assumes that the Epithymia primarily deals in Gold Pieces, but if you find yourself in a place that uses something else as currency (Such as a lower plane that deals in Souls), your instincts acclimatise to this alternate currency after 24 Hours.

[Mehket]

Epithymia Excellency GO!

Sifting Through the Horde
Prerequisites: -

When looking at an object you instinctively know it's rough GP value to it's largest integer. For example, you were looking at an object worth 12,300 GP, you would know it was worth roughly 10,000 GP. An item that was worth 192,500 GP would ping as being worth around 200,000 GP. You are still well aware that this is a rough estimate, so Appraise checks will still be required to find out it's actual value.

This ability functions on objects you've never seen before, an object someone is trying to deceive you into believing is more valuable (A green glass bauble, for example, would ping as being almost worthless despite how much you believe it to be an Emerald), illusionary treasure (Wouldn't even ping) or other such objects.

Additionally, when looking at a large "chunk" of treasure (Such as a Dragon's Horde or a large, well filled vault) you instinctively gravitate towards the most valuable portions, even if you can't physically see the valuables.

This ability assumes that the Epithymia primarily deals in Gold Pieces, but if you find yourself in a place that uses something else as currency (Such as a lower plane that deals in Souls), your instincts acclimatise to this alternate currency after 24 Hours.

I love it! I love the Epithymia intro too but I didn't have an account at the time. I find the nearest integer mechanism very creative. The player won't know if it's more or less but will have a rough idea. Perfect.

My only concern, please explain how it interacts with illusions with a little more clarity. By my reading, if a naked person used an illusion of clothes, it'd be a no save illusion penetration. This could have unforseen implications stronger than you'd want for an Excellency. Certain abilities/spells may at least call for a caster level check against something appropriate to the Epithymia. At least personally, I hate the binary nature of True Seeing and spells I'm general.

Also, I know it's very WiP but can you create an Epithymia thread? I have a lot of ideas. In addition, I've been lurking this forum and minmax for many years and have a large collection of well done rogue-like base and prestige classes. I'd like a thread to post links to them, highlight their unique abilities and discuss how they can become inspiration for Epithymia mythos and class features.

Final thought, since you and (int) darkness are developing thematically different mythos rogues, I'd suggest you collaborate with him on mythos that work mechanically for both classes. Since this is all for free, neither of you should feel guilty or uncreative for having overlapping mythos despite taking the mythic rogue in different directions. I'm not a mythos expert but I do consider myself well-versed in rogue lore and plan on providing feedback for both of you.

Best,
-Mk

[Vauron]

Extra attacks is useful I admit, which is why its got a bigger attack penalty than the norm. As for taking just Wind and not the others? Well, I need suggestions of manifestations that give you very strong reasons to take the others. Maybe a Wind/Fire one, that lets you do more damage for each successful hit?

And wada mean, what's the story?

While I don't want to put words in Seventeen's mouth, I'm pretty sure what is meant by 'what's the story' is 'what is the fluff'? I also think the attack penalty is pretty small, but I'm not that good at balance myself.

For my own part, I'd like to know why does the no-frills Bellator have a set of mythos based on elemental imagery? Or at least I'm assuming as much from the names. To compare, while the Olethrofex has an elemental mythos in Necrotic Phantasmagoria Pulse, the elements have an tainted by the forces of death.

[Tempestfury]

-2 to all attacks for an extra attack is actually the standard (looking at flurry of blows). Admittedly, Slasher Flurry, which does the same is a -5 penalty, but that's from a feat. -4 is actually double the norm. Though it does go down to -2 at the end, it is the Bellator after all, your just a little bit beyond.

As for the fluff? Well, the Bellator is taking inspiration from the Elements to improve his fighting style. Learning how to improve his combat ability from the most primal of forces. The Bellator is the fighter exalted, so he should be able to learn from forces such as the elements, don't you agree?

[Vauron]

As for the fluff? Well, the Bellator is taking inspiration from the Elements to improve his fighting style. Learning how to improve his combat ability from the most primal of forces. The Bellator is the fighter exalted, so he should be able to learn from forces such as the elements, don't you agree?

Not as you have it here, no. Those are more what you'd expect from a Kathados mythos. Admittedly, I don't read most of the mythos for the most uninteresting mythos class to me, but generally they deal with the Bellator's supernal skill. You currently just have 'Element + Direction'. Those names could work as manifestations or mythos for the Kathados, not the Bellator.




You are free to disagree with me, and I can't make you change anything, but this is what I think.

[Tempestfury]

I am going to disagree completely. The Kathados draws power completely and utterly from the elements. The Bellator will be studying the elements and using what he's learned to advanced his combat ability. Two entirely different things. One is supernatural, one isn't.

[Vauron]

Than could you at least include some fluff with the mythos? Using elemental terms isn't forbidden with Bellator mythos, but do something with it to make it something other than a Kathados mythos with the wrong class name appended to it. 'Studying the elements and using what you learned to increase your capacity in and out of combat' is also what Kathados do.

[Tempestfury]

... I'll add the fluff AFTER I've sorted out the mechanics a bit more. And NO. The Kathods don't just study the elements and use what they've learned to fight better. They study the elements and use what they've learned to fight better by USING the elements themselves! This is just like how the Bellator can learn the Tiger Claw discipline by watching a tiger hunting! (Which is a actual mythos fluff, not a fan-made one)

[Vauron]

I suppose we have different interpretations of Elemental-Fisted Pugilist Style. Regardless, I'll drop it.

[Tempestfury]

... It says in the mythos itself, that your using the power of the elements (interally) to increase your unarmed powers.

[ThreadNecro5]

The Occasus fears death and pain and isolation, so they do everything in their power to promote life and safety, even if that means stitching together your friends in both body and soul, grafting armor to their body so it can never be lost or stolen, and surrounding themselves with friends and subdued foes turned friends... which may not be conscious because they are the building blocks of your life palace.

the Kreikiri approves of this.

on a more serious note I really like the concept you have going on here nice spin on the forceful robot-conversion idea.

have you by any chance seen the 1999 movie 'Virus', may be worth a look for inspiration on a darker or more grotesque concept for an Occasus if you think of it from the Occasus's motivations.

on a related note with that movie it now has to become a campaign featuring a team-up between an Occasuis and a 'benevolent' Kreikiri on a quest to unite a world in peace and unity. with body horror. ALL the body horror.


Main mechanic is Mania, which is a number that represents the degradation of their sanity in their pursuits by choosing Manic mythos or using neutral Mythos in Manic ways. For example, the armor grafting Mythos is neutral, unless you use it on someone against their will.

have you by any chance heard of the fan-made NWOD game genius: the transgression, it may be worth a read (or skim, is rather big) and you may get some ideas from the mechanics of background inside, the titular genius's have some similar themes going on.


other totally not creepy things I swear.

as a guy whose class would likely say the exact same thing im not going to believe that one second. please prove me right :smallbiggrin:.

and while im here I may as well post the complete disease mythos ive mentions a few times if anyone is interested.

Necrotic meat-mutation
Perquisite: Monster-making beast-lord

Your body becomes host to a mutational disease. This disease is spread through your body fluids and though any natural attack you possess, using the mechanics listed below:
It is an injury disease whose save DC as is normal for mythos-based effects. It has an onset period of 3d4 days with a frequency of 1/month.

The effects of the disease are 1d2 charisma drain, and once contracted it is curable with two successful saves.
The visible symptoms of the disease are that the victim’s entire body begins going through temporary spontaneous mutations, at first only things like hair colour or skin texture may be effected, but later entire vestigial limbs may develop and retract, their limbs develop new joints, and eventually the infected individual becomes a horrifying sight of jumbled, ever-shifting flesh and erupting organs, looking almost as if a swarm of writhing insects has burrowed beneath their skin. Despite the effects on someone’s looks, and likely their mental state, a canny individual can make use of their situation. Once a creature has took five points of charisma damage from the disease they increase their natural reach by 5ft, for every three points of such damage they take they increase all their physical statistics by one point, and they gain a bonus on intimidate checks equal to ½ the amount of charisma damage they have taken.
Unfortunately (for the victim anyway) however the infected who reach an advanced stage of infection, having a charisma of 7 or lower and after a minimum of a month infected, develop an unending compulsive hunger, gaining a bite attack that deals 1d6 damage for a medium creature. That drives them to consume any and all food available, but that still does not reduce the hunger. The only way a creature may relieve themselves of their hunger is by consuming the body of a creature that has been dead for no less than 24 hours. The infected creature can consume the body unnaturally quickly taking 15 minutes for a small sized creature, with +15 minutes per side larger or half that time per size smaller. After eating the creature the infected individual gains a number of graft points (identical to yours but they lack any means to use them) identical to how many you would have gained should to have harvested the corpse for graft points, taking into account any modifiers you possess into the roll such as making the dice used d6s or such, with the alteration that all dice rolled are maximised (should the consumed creature possess graft points they are gained by the consumer as well). Once the creature has consumed point’s equal to the amount of charisma drain they possess X10 they regain a point of charisma drain and cease their hunger until they need to make a save for the disease again.

This continues until the creature has been infected for 3d10 years or their charisma becomes zero, at which time the true effects of the disease become apparent upon the victim slipping into a coma and begins to mutate over an hour. At this time you immediately become aware of this creature and subsequently become aware of their location and of what the creature has seen in the past minute. You may then immediately create a creature, as per ‘Monster-making beast-lord’, without having to pay the 15 points to construct the creatures body, and using the amount of graft points the creature has (and only that creature, not any of yours) combined with that they would grant should you harvest them but with the dice rolled maximised. This creature is treated as one you created in all ways and for resurrection purposes the creature who was infected (whose body became the new creature) is treated as if their body was raised as an undead creature bypassing nay immunity to such effects. When creating a creature due to this disease you must spend at least half the graft points available. Any unused points are granted to the Kreikiri.
Creatures created from the infected bodies are considered allies to each other, and will likely engage in pack tactics if of animal level intelligence, and will cooperate to greater degrees if smarter, and such creatures may retain their original mind is you desire them to (but now loyal to the other infected creatures).
Once the disease is cured any charisma drain the infected creature took becomes charisma damage and can be healed normally and any graft points the creature accused are lost and granted to the Kreikiri.

Advanced manifestations:
Virulent plague
You gain ability focus (Necrotic meat-mutation) as a bonus feat. In addition your disease now becomes magical, now requiring a remove curse spell in additional to a cure disease spell to cure it.

Outbreak
All creatures created though your disease gain the ability to spread the disease through their bodily fluids and natural attacks identically to the Kreikiri. Additionally you select one of your natural attacks. When used to transmit the disease the DC is increased by +1.

Dead men tell no secrets but those of flesh
When an infected creature dies their death throws produce a number of thrashing limbs that target all creatures within 10ft. have the creature roll a single attack roll and compare it to all effected creatures AC and every creature hit takes 2d6 damage.
For every creature that dies as a result of this (as well as any corpses in the area affected) is fused with the now dead infected creature that is immediately considered to have consumed those corpses for graft points. After this the creature immediately becomes a creature as if their charisma becomes zero.

Nightmarish genesis
Whenever the disease causes a creature to be formed, it only takes one round to do so.

Unbound creation
Your disease now ignores immunity to disease.

im quite pleased with it myself, seriously im sure you could make a campaign based around that mythos alone, just think of the potential (... and now I sound like a kreikiri, ugh I need sleep).

[Sgt. Cookie]

I love it! I love the Epithymia intro too but I didn't have an account at the time. I find the nearest integer mechanism very creative. The player won't know if it's more or less but will have a rough idea. Perfect.

That's sort of the idea. You ever play the newest Thief game? At the start, Garret identifies a mask as being made from fake gemstones as soon as he has a look at it. This ability is meant to give you that "trained eye" that can tell the beauties from the baubles at a mere glance.


My only concern, please explain how it interacts with illusions with a little more clarity. By my reading, if a naked person used an illusion of clothes, it'd be a no save illusion penetration. This could have unforseen implications stronger than you'd want for an Excellency. Certain abilities/spells may at least call for a caster level check against something appropriate to the Epithymia. At least personally, I hate the binary nature of True Seeing and spells I'm general.

Well, the ability isn't anything like True Seeing. Hell it isn't an Illusion-dar. It's a Value-dar. A room full of illusionary gold doesn't ping on the value-dar and that would make you suspicious, but trying to pick it up and finding your hand goes through it as if it were air is more suspicious.

Similarly, an Illusion of a Pit Fiend wouldn't ping on the value-dar, but that won't make you automatically suspicious because an actual Pit Fiend wouldn't ping either.

I will add the following, though: "You are treated as if you were "Interacting" with the Illusionary Object, but your inability to gauge any kind of value at all is often proof enough that an object is an illusion. Illusions of creatures (And even some large, low value objects such as an Illusionary wall) are not "Interacted" with, as the creature (or large object) would not "have" a value even if it were real.


Also, I know it's very WiP but can you create an Epithymia thread? I have a lot of ideas. In addition, I've been lurking this forum and minmax for many years and have a large collection of well done rogue-like base and prestige classes. I'd like a thread to post links to them, highlight their unique abilities and discuss how they can become inspiration for Epithymia mythos and class features.

Sure, I'll stick it up now for ya. Class table and things will have to wait for a few hours, though (It's 2:30 AM for me right now.)


Final thought, since you and (int) darkness are developing thematically different mythos rogues, I'd suggest you collaborate with him on mythos that work mechanically for both classes. Since this is all for free, neither of you should feel guilty or uncreative for having overlapping mythos despite taking the mythic rogue in different directions. I'm not a mythos expert but I do consider myself well-versed in rogue lore and plan on providing feedback for both of you.

Best,
-Mk

(int) darkness' Umbramendax is a generalised class, you can be the trickster, the liar, the assassin, powered by the vestigial remains of the first shadow, hiding away until the time you strike and show the world what you really are.

The Epithymia is a Thief. Nothing more than a taker of wealth and nothing less than a perfectionist. The scion of the first selfish thought who, rather than face the Sun it wanted, took the stars from the sky to comfort it.


So, while I understand the idea behind the suggestion, the thematics behind the classes are too different to make collaboration a worthwhile endeavour.

[Tacitus]

Not heard of Virus, might look it up at some point, but I'm trying my hardest to do Mythos right now that aren't in that line. Not enough options yet to play a nice guy with an Occasus. Plenty to drive the crazy train to a meatpocalypse, but not to be a nice guy.

Have heard of Genius, skimmed it ages ago and could never get my group to get on with it. I'll have to look it over again.

I have my Shintai planned out in concept. Your Mania becomes equal to its maximum at all times and can never be lowered, you no longer suffer from comas from Wis being penalized to 0, but you become akin to the Kishin, producing a madness wavelength that might slowly drive the world insane. Will branch from an enhancement line that Borgs people, which may or may not let you be reborn from one of them akin to the Teramach mythos that makes reavers, but with less anger and more madness. Bonus points if they look like nurses with malformed faces, bandaged heads, or no faces at all.

[Seventeen]

While I don't want to put words in Seventeen's mouth, I'm pretty sure what is meant by 'what's the story' is 'what is the fluff'? I also think the attack penalty is pretty small, but I'm not that good at balance myself.

For my own part, I'd like to know why does the no-frills Bellator have a set of mythos based on elemental imagery? Or at least I'm assuming as much from the names. To compare, while the Olethrofex has an elemental mythos in Necrotic Phantasmagoria Pulse, the elements have an tainted by the forces of death.

Got it in one.

[SodaDarwin]

Despite having never tried homebrew before, since I saw the Mythos system and started examining it aplenty, I've been thinking.
Unfortunately, as I can't find anything to transliterate Greek-to-English, I'm lacking in the clever names department. What idea I do have though, is a monster. Not like the Teramach, who is a mental monster of physical rage and slaughter, but a physical monster of domination and consumption made to rule or end whatever they touch. And they can mutate heavily, through acquiring and manipulating Biomass. Inspired by characters and things such as Alex Mercer from Prototype, the Zerg from Starcraft, or even sort of Kevin 11 from Ben 10 I suppose.
A cosmic horror that claimed the very being of some poor soul, rapidly twisting them to fit its own needs. They may fight back against it, or embrace it, or even try to manipulate it in turn. They could be an all consuming being attempting to annihilate existence with its hunger, or a 'mother' that creates a hive, to conquer. Perhaps not tyrannical in nature. However, it is always primal, always disturbing. Depending on the build, I'd imagine it could go anywhere to and between a freight train upon the battlefield, such as Alex Mercer, to a queen of the Zerg or Xenomorphs. Heavy emphasis on melee, versatility through mutation and spontaneous changes, and crowd control with possibilities of minions and/or durability.
They'd be resource based, getting the Biomass needed for abilities and mutations by consuming organic matter.
As Mythos scale from extroadinary, but plausible, to deific things, I'd imagine Exceptional Mythos to be those the common people could imagine, but still only exist within nightmare fuel stories made for the purpose of making children behave. Thralls and children, claws and hunger. A standard, if disturbing monster. Fantastic would be things barely out of the realm of what people dare accept, and those who can imagine them cry in terror from what may be. Giants, broods, and the monsters that make valiant knights go cry in the corner. Legendary is what even kings cannot dare fathom, for fear their kingdom would rot from the thought. Hives and dragon sized horrors, all consuming beings that the universe dares to allow in only due to fear of what they would do to it if it refused.
Exalted Mythos come from the nightmares of the gods. Turning not just nations but planets and further into hives, or consuming the fabric of the world for lack of what else to claim.

[Tempestfury]

So... a Mythos Evolutionist? Because that's what the idea sounds like tbh.

[SodaDarwin]

Oh. Darn.
I'll go sit in the corner

[Tempestfury]

Hey, hey. That's just my thoughts and opinions on it, why don't we wait until a few more people have said their piece, hmmm?

[commander panda]

Hey guys, quick question. Do we have a mythic weapon finesse style thing for dex based bellators yet? I feel like there should be an option to build a dex based bellator.

[Tempestfury]

No, there is no such option. Though I was thinking of making my own fencing mythos that uses weapon finesse.

[commander panda]

Hmmm... In that case I think I'm going to pull together an exceptional mythos to let the belletor Use her dex in more places. Maybe lend a hand to the occasional vertically challenged bellator as well.

[Tempestfury]

Yes... a mythos that could let you use your dex instead of strength for other places, including other mythos could be interesting to see...

[Temotei]

Done! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371238-The-Journey-Never-Ends-3-5-Mythos&p=18091170) :smallbiggrin:

[Kymme]

Dear sweet Malpheas...

http://31.media.tumblr.com/31b8ab8746927957760c96ea167c635a/tumblr_mlgy51JgE61qdeg0do1_500.jpg

It's beautiful.

[commander panda]

Done! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?371238-The-Journey-Never-Ends-3-5-Mythos&p=18091170) :smallbiggrin:

havent finished reading the mythos yet, but the fluff is really, really cool. needy for more mythos, but cool.

[Tempestfury]

Hmmm... do people think it might be possible to make a Kensai Mythos?

[Amechra]

Can I make a general request?

Can you guys grab a dictionary or something, to check the meanings of words before you use them? I mean, I used to think that's what you did, and then the word Spoor comes up.

"Spoor" is a term used by naturalists and hunters to refer to the feces left behind by an animal, which can be used to track it down; it does not mean "path", "trail", or "route". I know I'm over-reacting a bit, but seriously; know what the words you're using mean.

And if you are iffy on what they mean, look it up.

(I'm assuming, of course, that Temotei didn't actually mean to have a Mythos that reads Planar-Boundaries Breaking Poop. If so, carry on, as you were (with a dictionary; poetry isn't an excuse for bad English)).

[ThreadNecro5]

Unfortunately, as I can't find anything to transliterate Greek-to-English, I'm lacking in the clever names department.

have you tried Google translate?, that is what I use.


What idea I do have though, is a monster. Not like the Teramach, who is a mental monster of physical rage and slaughter, but a physical monster of domination and consumption made to rule or end whatever they touch. And they can mutate heavily, through acquiring and manipulating Biomass. Inspired by characters and things such as Alex Mercer from Prototype, the Zerg from Starcraft, or even sort of Kevin 11 from Ben 10 I suppose.
A cosmic horror that claimed the very being of some poor soul, rapidly twisting them to fit its own needs. They may fight back against it, or embrace it, or even try to manipulate it in turn. They could be an all consuming being attempting to annihilate existence with its hunger, or a 'mother' that creates a hive, to conquer. Perhaps not tyrannical in nature. However, it is always primal, always disturbing. Depending on the build, I'd imagine it could go anywhere to and between a freight train upon the battlefield, such as Alex Mercer, to a queen of the Zerg or Xenomorphs. Heavy emphasis on melee, versatility through mutation and spontaneous changes, and crowd control with possibilities of minions and/or durability.
They'd be resource based, getting the Biomass needed for abilities and mutations by consuming organic matter.
As Mythos scale from extroadinary, but plausible, to deific things, I'd imagine Exceptional Mythos to be those the common people could imagine, but still only exist within nightmare fuel stories made for the purpose of making children behave. Thralls and children, claws and hunger. A standard, if disturbing monster. Fantastic would be things barely out of the realm of what people dare accept, and those who can imagine them cry in terror from what may be. Giants, broods, and the monsters that make valiant knights go cry in the corner. Legendary is what even kings cannot dare fathom, for fear their kingdom would rot from the thought. Hives and dragon sized horrors, all consuming beings that the universe dares to allow in only due to fear of what they would do to it if it refused.
Exalted Mythos come from the nightmares of the gods. Turning not just nations but planets and further into hives, or consuming the fabric of the world for lack of what else to claim.

I realty like this idea. especially the creating a hive part, i have been wanting to play something like that for a while now as it seems an interesting idea from a gaming perspective as well as in character. yes, I play weird stuff.

[Temotei]

(I'm assuming, of course, that Temotei didn't actually mean to have a Mythos that reads Planar-Boundaries Breaking Poop. If so, carry on, as you were (with a dictionary; poetry isn't an excuse for bad English)).

Usually I just think of words that fit and if I run out, I go to the thesaurus and cross-reference with the dictionary.

This time I forgot to use the dictionary. Derp.

[ShadowFireLance]

Despite having never tried homebrew before, since I saw the Mythos system and started examining it aplenty, I've been thinking.
Unfortunately, as I can't find anything to transliterate Greek-to-English, I'm lacking in the clever names department. What idea I do have though, is a monster. Not like the Teramach, who is a mental monster of physical rage and slaughter, but a physical monster of domination and consumption made to rule or end whatever they touch. And they can mutate heavily, through acquiring and manipulating Biomass. Inspired by characters and things such as Alex Mercer from Prototype, the Zerg from Starcraft, or even sort of Kevin 11 from Ben 10 I suppose.
A cosmic horror that claimed the very being of some poor soul, rapidly twisting them to fit its own needs. They may fight back against it, or embrace it, or even try to manipulate it in turn. They could be an all consuming being attempting to annihilate existence with its hunger, or a 'mother' that creates a hive, to conquer. Perhaps not tyrannical in nature. However, it is always primal, always disturbing. Depending on the build, I'd imagine it could go anywhere to and between a freight train upon the battlefield, such as Alex Mercer, to a queen of the Zerg or Xenomorphs. Heavy emphasis on melee, versatility through mutation and spontaneous changes, and crowd control with possibilities of minions and/or durability.
They'd be resource based, getting the Biomass needed for abilities and mutations by consuming organic matter.
As Mythos scale from extroadinary, but plausible, to deific things, I'd imagine Exceptional Mythos to be those the common people could imagine, but still only exist within nightmare fuel stories made for the purpose of making children behave. Thralls and children, claws and hunger. A standard, if disturbing monster. Fantastic would be things barely out of the realm of what people dare accept, and those who can imagine them cry in terror from what may be. Giants, broods, and the monsters that make valiant knights go cry in the corner. Legendary is what even kings cannot dare fathom, for fear their kingdom would rot from the thought. Hives and dragon sized horrors, all consuming beings that the universe dares to allow in only due to fear of what they would do to it if it refused.
Exalted Mythos come from the nightmares of the gods. Turning not just nations but planets and further into hives, or consuming the fabric of the world for lack of what else to claim.


Actually, uh, I have this exact concept.
The Archansin; (Which, I'm not quite sure what it translates to anymore, I think it has something to do with Hive or swarm, and monster.)
http://uppix.com/f-Archansin53b0e5ff0016e327.png

It uses the exact mechanic you mentioned; Biomass. Myself and a friend are mostly done with it, we've just hit the stumbling block of how to make massive hive structures out of people. :smallcool:

[SodaDarwin]

Actually, uh, I have this exact concept.
The Archansin; (Which, I'm not quite sure what it translates to anymore, I think it has something to do with Hive or swarm, and monster.)
http://uppix.com/f-Archansin53b0e5ff0016e327.png

It uses the exact mechanic you mentioned; Biomass. Myself and a friend are mostly done with it, we've just hit the stumbling block of how to make massive hive structures out of people. :smallcool:

My god.
Okay then.
HIPHIPHOORAY FOR THINKING ALIKE! Cannot wait to see how it'll turn out at the end.

[commander panda]

ok. new Bellator excellency. i'll try to get my weapon finesse mythos written up soon-ish, but university just started chucking assignments at my head, so i might be a while.

also, if anyone has any ideas for a better name, i'm all ears. not a huge fan of this one. changed my mind :smalltongue:. forget it.

Ocean Splitting Battle-Shrimp
Prerequisites: size small or smaller

As long as the Bellator remains smaller than medium size, she may treat any weapon she wields as if it were built for a creature one size larger than her whenever it is beneficial. At level 10 the Bellator has the option to treat her weapons as two sizes larger.

In addition, the attack bonus she gains from being smaller than average increases by 2. This attack bonus disappears, however, if she exceeds small size.

EDIT: should have been "exceeds small size". fixing it.

EDITEDIT: ok, so this mythos is going to be pretty inconsequential at higher levels. i'm making a quick edit to give it a bit more shelf life.

[vasharanpaladin]

ok. new Bellator excellency. i'll try to get my weapon finesse mythos written up soon-ish, but university just started chucking assignments at my head, so i might be a while.

also, if anyone has any ideas for a better name, i'm all ears. not a huge fan of this one.

Ocean Splitting Battle-Shrimp
Prerequisites: size small or smaller

As long as the Bellator remains smaller than medium size, she may treat any weapon she wields as if it were built for a creature one size larger than her whenever it is beneficial.

In addition, the attack bonus she gains from being smaller than average increases by 2. This attack bonus disappears, however, if she exceeds medium size.

Any name that references the almighty pistol shrimp is exempt from scorn. 'Tis a beautiful thing.

[commander panda]

....truth be told, i've never actualy heard of the holy pistol shrimp. now that i have, i feel much better about that name. thank you, ser paladin!

[commander panda]

sorry for the double post, guys, but i just pulled together a rough draft for Bellator's mythic weapon finesse, and i need some opinions.

my main question is if it seems to versatile for its teir. i want the dex based bellator to be just as viable as the strength based one, but i'm worried i might have overdone it.

i'll post questions in red where i'm particularly concerned, but if i'm completely missing something, let me know.

ok, i think its fine now. i'll call this done.


The Nimblest Killer You Ever Did See
prerequisite: The Bellator's dexterity score must be higher than her strength by two points.
Not all Bellators go to battle clad in rippling muscle. A Bellator who has this excellency, and wields a light or one handed weapon, has the option to replace her strength score with her dexterity score for the purpose of attack rolls, damage and skill checks. She also replaces her strength modifier with her dexterity in any strength based saving throw DCs.

[JKTrickster]

I think it would be better as an Excellency.

Honestly Mythos should be building blocks for stories. Weapon styles or armor styles or actions that couldn't be taken otherwise.

This is basically Weapon Finesse+ - mainly passive bonuses and a random Improved Feint (which has nothing to do with Dex mechanically)

So why not an Excellency?


Be Nimble, Be Quick

Req: Weapon Finesse

A Bellator can only benefit from this Excellency as long as their Dex is 4 points higher than Str (or something like that)

With any weapons that Bellator can apply Weapon Finesse to, it can also add Dex to damage.

Furthermore, for all Saving Throw DCs or Skill Checks based on Strength, Bellator can substitute their Dex mod instead.



~~~

I think that's enough. Allowing Dex to replace Stre ENTIRELY would be broken.

A Str based Bellator still wants 18 Dex (give or take, esp if they want Lightning and Wind Execution). A Dex based Bellator would never need Str, ever. And that would get worse if you allowed it to replace Str for other Mythos. Then Dex would be TOO strong.

[commander panda]

I think it would be better as an Excellency.

Honestly Mythos should be building blocks for stories. Weapon styles or armor styles or actions that couldn't be taken otherwise.

This is basically Weapon Finesse+ - mainly passive bonuses and a random Improved Feint (which has nothing to do with Dex mechanically)

yeah, this was pretty much my original intent. i upped it to full mythos because of its power level, but i can definitely tone it down to an excellency again. the feint manifestation was for variety in manifestations.



Be Nimble, Be Quick

Req: Weapon Finesse

A Bellator can only benefit from this Excellency as long as their Dex is 4 points higher than Str (or something like that)

With any weapons that Bellator can apply Weapon Finesse to, it can also add Dex to damage.

Furthermore, for all Saving Throw DCs or Skill Checks based on Strength, Bellator can substitute their Dex mod instead.

hmm. the name seems a bit boring, but i like this otherwise. i think i'll take this and just expand the field of available weapons.


I think that's enough. Allowing Dex to replace Stre ENTIRELY would be broken.

A Str based Bellator still wants 18 Dex (give or take, esp if they want Lightning and Wind Execution). A Dex based Bellator would never need Str, ever. And that would get worse if you allowed it to replace Str for other Mythos. Then Dex would be TOO strong.
hence my worry :smalltongue:. thanks for pushing me off the fence on that.

[JKTrickster]

Oh yeah please change the name - I'm so terrible with names, it isn't even funny :smalltongue:


The main reason for not depending on Dex entirely is metagame reasons. Dex is already a rather strong stat - it provides a bonus to AC, Init, Reflex Saves, and multiple Skills.

It's not exactly useless. Even a Str based Bellator wants to take the Cross Training Regimen Excellency to make sure his Dex is around 18.


But Strength? If you don't need it, you REALLY don't need it. Aside from carrying capacity and melee attack/damage rolls and Str checks....what do you REALLY use it for?

The Strength skills aren't as popular as the Dexterity skills either.


But yeah I think the flavor matches an Excellency better. It's equal too: Str based Bellators are more direct, but have two Excellencies to reduce Stat points needed. Dex based Bellators might be slightly harder to build, but only need one Excellency (on the other hand, still need a good Con). So it's more balanced that way.

[commander panda]

agree with all of the above. i think i can probably call it finished now.

anyway now the real reason i'm posting.
@xefas, i was wondring if you might consider posting links to the discussion forums and the collaborated mythos document in the pages for the mythos classes. i figure people new to the system might want to know right off the bat that there are a bunch of extra mythos available to them.

[Xefas]

I've added links to both discussion threads to all my Mythos class threads. The Random Mythos Document can then be reached via the first posts therein.

I've also made some alterations and additions to the class features and Mythos for the Kathodos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?301261-3-5-quot-I-have-mastered-the-Elements-a-thousand-times-in-a-thousand-lifetimes-quot&p=15947087#post15947087), if anyone is interested. Some removed Mythos will be returning later. For best results, let go your earthly tether and enter the void before reading.

[Kymme]

I've also made some alterations and additions to the class features and Mythos for the Kathodos (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?301261-3-5-quot-I-have-mastered-the-Elements-a-thousand-times-in-a-thousand-lifetimes-quot&p=15947087#post15947087), if anyone is interested. Some removed Mythos will be returning later. For best results, let go your earthly tether and enter the void before reading.

I... I think I'm in love. Bless you, sir. Bless you.

[Tempestfury]

Can we have a changelog?

[commander panda]

Can we have a changelog?

seconded. i dont know what's different.

[Xefas]

Can we have a changelog?

Class Features
-Flow of Energy no longer requires that all Kathodos Mythos must be either [Internal] or [External]
-[External] Mythos functionality completed reworked
-Flow of Energy now provides new bonuses at 3rd, 5th, and 7th level
-Precision Philosophy added

Mythos
-The following Mythos were removed (some temporarily): Coursing Riverwalker Swiftness, Ether-Crown Illumination, Fulminatory Lightning Epiphany, Geomantic Worldbender Assumption, Harrowing Ice Epiphany, White-Hot Ember Stoking Rage, Wrathful Dragon-Shot, A Million Little Gods, Changing Seasons Kata, Overwhelming Dragon-Suspire, Steam-and-Dust Showdown, Sun-and-Sky Union, Descrying The Lifestream, Martial Agility Training, Uncompromising Strife-Cutting Intellect

-The following Mythos were added: At Home In This World, Blossoming Incarnum Inheritance, Land-Strike Wrath, Ley-Channeling Shamanism Practices, Meditating On The Elements, Omphalic Monument Skin, Cosmic Yang Epiphany, Cosmic Yin Epiphany, Dualistic Paraelemental Understanding, Flowing Incarnum Inheritance, Negative Quasielemental Understanding, Positive Quasielemental Understanding, Tumultuous Geokinema Assault, Wandering The Omphalos, Elemental Servant-Will Sublimation, Sojourner Of A Thousand Lives Shintai, Surging Incarnum Inheritance, Eminent Incarnum Inheritance, Essence Fracture, Terrestrial Disaster Incarnation, [Ability] Beyond Mortal Seeming, Sea-of-Chi Understanding

-Sought By Nature's Chaperon is now Exceptional, down from Fantastic
-Elemental-Fisted Pugilist Style had its advanced manifestation, Storm-Fist Technique, removed, and most of its effects combined into the base Mythos
-Land-Forged Geomach Arsenal completely reworked
-Wind-Fire Sky Stride reworked

Paladin
-Hammer of Justice now stuns for 45 seconds, down from 2 weeks

[Kymme]

Looking at the new beatific Kathodos, I find that quite a few of its new Mythos make some of my homebrew-of-a-homebrew additions defunct. I don't consider this a bad thing, because in all honestly many of the Kathodos Mythos I've created have been a mess of poor mechanics and even poorer fluff. In all honestly, I'm happy that my stuff like Claiming Life's Heart got a canon brother like Essence Fracture. It warms my heart to know that, even if my interpretations were somewhat clumsy, I was still drinking from the same metaphorical punchbowl as our glorious white-furred leader.

Also, Terrestrial Disaster Incarnation is the most epic Exalted Mythos I've yet laid eyes on. It's just wonderful, in every possible way.

[commander panda]

wow... well i definitely find these new mythos really interesting. the exalted stuff are both amazing.

with this new influx of mythos, and the possibility that many of the removed ones will come back, do you think the kathodos will soon be approaching playability?