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View Full Version : Erfworld 30 The Shark Has Been Jumped



nihil8r
2007-03-04, 09:59 PM
Turn-based sapphic domination, catch it now at giantitp.com!

ajkkjjk52
2007-03-04, 10:11 PM
How could you say something like that?

It jumped at 28, when half the strip was devoted to Wanda's outfit.

jami
2007-03-05, 12:52 AM
It jumped at 28, when half the strip was devoted to Wanda's outfit.

By that logic, the entire comic book industry jumped the shark in the 90's.

Oh wait...

Rocheforte
2007-03-05, 01:54 AM
I love the sheer hubris of people whose first ever post in a forum (all nihil8r's other posts are in OotS territory, and ajkkjjk52 has also never been spotted in Erf) is some great declaration like "this strip has jumped the shark". Fiat.

We will know that the strip has lost its entertainment value when people stop reading it. Nothing short of that can possibly be used as evidence for such an inane statement.

I suppose, since you're both done with this strip, there's no need to bother with ignore-listing you?

Mutiemoe
2007-03-05, 02:30 AM
Bah!
What exactly is so bad turn-based sapphic domination, I mean if the fans are cheering?

I wonder what kind of bile-spewing outrage would there be if there ever would be a certain sort hypothetical strip about why exactly Lord Stanley chooses to pick most handsome and dashing prettyboys as generals. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more*

Om
2007-03-05, 06:31 AM
I was going to do a humorous superimposition of Wanda on the Fonze jumping the shark but unfortunately I only have MS Paint to work with :smallfrown:

Caractacus
2007-03-05, 09:23 AM
Yeah, there's been 30 comic strips, and it's jumped the shark. Yup. Ho yuss.:smallsigh:

Silver
2007-03-05, 09:34 AM
Shark-jumping is only if it goes downhill afterward. Shows, and strips, can stumble once in awhile; declaring a shark-jump requires the perspective of time.

#30 certainly does have the potential, though. But I'll reserve judgment on the shark part. Maybe Jami and Rob will pull out some frickin' lasers.

They'll have to be pretty good lasers, though. But I'm not ready to say it can't be done.

Ave
2007-03-05, 10:10 AM
Bah!
why exactly Lord Stanley chooses to pick most handsome and dashing prettyboys as generals. *wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more*

How the singing fat lady fits in that picture?

kialos
2007-03-05, 12:40 PM
I don't see how its POSSIBLE for this comic to jump the shark, it hasn't had enough story established for some changes to MEAN anything yet, we don't have enough understanding of the world to know were things aren't consistant. I completely disagree with that idea.

Minchandre
2007-03-05, 03:39 PM
I definitely think that Rob is going somewhere with this aside from "ZOMG Lesbian S&M! As a fanboy who is both misogynistic and scared of girls, I find this highly arousing!!!111oneoneeleven"

I think, did I think that it was a little gratuitous? Yes. Do I find cartoon boobies hot? No. Do I honestly think something is going to come out of this, and that it was done for a reason? Yes.

Luvlein
2007-03-05, 03:47 PM
did I think that it was a little gratuitous? Yes.

Do I honestly think something is going to come out of this, and that it was done for a reason? Yes.
This is somewhat contradictory, no?

SteveMB
2007-03-05, 03:52 PM
This is somewhat contradictory, no?
Not really; my interpretation is that Minchandre was describing the lesbian-BSDM overtones of the scenes as "gratuitous" while acknowledging that there was some plot and character development behind them.

Of course, those overtones could be serving the purpose of the cute assistant distracting the audience while the magician does his prestidigitation....

Minchandre
2007-03-05, 03:53 PM
^
|

He explained it better (than my original explanation; thus the edit)

Luvlein
2007-03-05, 03:59 PM
Too late, I have already read your post :smallwink:

Caractacus
2007-03-05, 04:56 PM
I don't see how its POSSIBLE for this comic to jump the shark, it hasn't had enough story established for some changes to MEAN anything yet, we don't have enough understanding of the world to know were things aren't consistant. I completely disagree with that idea.

Quite. My point exactly. Thoroughly agree.:smallcool:

archon_huskie
2007-03-05, 06:59 PM
So you are saying, "now that something people have been predicting for a while has happened, it's changed."

agentx42
2007-03-05, 07:26 PM
Hmmm, untill we see W & J get busy like a late-night Cinemax movie, I wouldn't say the shark has jumped. But that sucker's certainly limbering up...

Geoff
2007-03-05, 07:28 PM
I'm thinking the phrase "Jumping the Shark" has prettymuch 'Jumped the Shark' by now. :smallannoyed:

Fronko
2007-03-05, 07:43 PM
So, for us stupid non-native speakers:

"Jumping the shark" obviously does mean "it is going down", probably strongly connected to "itīs going lezbo to catch what is left of the readers interest" ... am I right with that assumption?

If yes:
Well, screw me, but I think it is
a) developing in a direction that is way to cool for you to grasp or
b) being a sarcastic persiflage on recent trends

Choose whatever you like.

Oh, and if gay/lesbian issues are too out-there for you: I am a European. We cope with these things, sue me.

If no: Nevermind, I just had too much beer tonight.

averagejoe
2007-03-05, 07:54 PM
The phrase comes from the show Happy Days, referring to the episode where The Fonz jumped over a shark on water skis. There are people who believe this is the point at which the show started going downhill.

Edit: So, yes, you are correct on that.

Tharj TreeSmiter
2007-03-05, 08:00 PM
So, for us stupid non-native speakers:

"Jumping the shark" obviously does mean "it is going down", probably strongly connected to "itīs going lezbo to catch what is left of the readers interest" ... am I right with that assumption?

If yes:
Well, screw me, but I think it is
a) developing in a direction that is way to cool for you to grasp or
b) being a sarcastic persiflage on recent trends

Choose whatever you like.

Oh, and if gay/lesbian issues are too out-there for you: I am a European. We cope with these things, sue me.

If no: Nevermind, I just had too much beer tonight.

"jumping the shark" is a specific reference to an old american TV show called "Happy days" with a character "The Fonz" who actually jumped a tank of water with a shark in it with his motorcycle in one episode. It's generally seen as the low point of the show which ended soon after.

That episode and event has now become a catch phrase for something that's hit a low point and will or should be cancelled.

I don't agree with it being used for erfworld. I didn't like it for the first few weeks but it's finally starting to have a plot and I actually am somewhat interested in what happens. I don't think there is anything wrong with the last couple of strips (no pun intended), maybe because this forum has a lot of kids and teenagers but for adults it shouldn't be an issue. If Erf World turns into a web-porno rather than a web-comic then I'll change my mind but I highly doubt that happening.

averagejoe
2007-03-05, 08:08 PM
See, that's pretty much it. I don't know about the kid thing, but sex or sex-themed stuff in the strip is not, in and of itself, a bad thing, and in this case I think it actually adds something. If it was sexual in the Laura Croft/God of War/The Scorpion King/The Sword of Truth or any of those other books/movies/games who use sex as a simple "wow" factor, then I would most likely agree that the latest strip should have been done differently. However, in this case it isn't simply to shock and wow people; it adds an interesting tension to the strip and helps develop Wanda and Jillian as characters. As with a lot of Erfworld, it is unconventional and downright strange, and somewhat new (or, at least mostly unexplored) territory as far as comics go.

Indon
2007-03-06, 10:42 AM
I don't see how there could be any shark-jumping this early in the strip.

I mean, we haven't seen any naval units yet! :smallbiggrin:

...unless there were some kind of land shark. But it'd have to spring out of the ground to attack...

I guess maybe in Erfworld, sharks jump you?

Wallyz
2007-03-06, 11:05 AM
"jumping the shark" is a specific reference to an old american TV show called "Happy days" with a character "The Fonz" who actually jumped a tank of water with a shark in it with his motorcycle in one episode. It's generally seen as the low point of the show which ended soon after.



Nit pick-

He was waterskiing on a lake that had a shark in it while the soundtrack played the song "Personality"

RecklessFable
2007-03-06, 11:52 AM
Nit pick-

He was waterskiing on a lake that had a shark in it while the soundtrack played the song "Personality"

Even nitpickier! He was at a California beach (the shark being an ocean dweller) :smallsmile:

The phrase is now used to refer to "The Moment" when a series has gone in a direction that takes it downhill. I guess it can be called "The beginning of the end" (Usually a TV show, but nowadays pretty much anything)

Other moments include:
Cheers: Sam and Diane finally kiss
Married with Children: Ed Bagley Junior joins the cast.
M.A.S.H.: Ceases to be a comedy and becomes all about Alan Alda anti-war speeches.
The Star Wars Movies: Ewoks...

Flame_Drake
2007-03-06, 02:14 PM
I don't see how there could be any shark-jumping this early in the strip.

I mean, we haven't seen any naval units yet! :smallbiggrin:

...unless there were some kind of land shark. But it'd have to spring out of the ground to attack...

I guess maybe in Erfworld, sharks jump you?

So a Bulette then? :smalltongue:


Drake

Tharj TreeSmiter
2007-03-06, 03:00 PM
Even nitpickier! He was at a California beach (the shark being an ocean dweller) :smallsmile:

The phrase is now used to refer to "The Moment" when a series has gone in a direction that takes it downhill. I guess it can be called "The beginning of the end" (Usually a TV show, but nowadays pretty much anything)

Other moments include:
Cheers: Sam and Diane finally kiss
Married with Children: Ed Bagley Junior joins the cast.
M.A.S.H.: Ceases to be a comedy and becomes all about Alan Alda anti-war speeches.
The Star Wars Movies: Ewoks...


Thanks, I hadn't actually seen that episode. But I'd seen parady's of it which had him jumping a shark in a tank with his motorcycle.

Now I know and knowing is half the battle!... :)

Bilgore
2007-03-06, 05:06 PM
I guess maybe in Erfworld, sharks jump you?

Well, at least we know what kind of porn people will say this is headed towards becoming...
:smallwink:

Machiara
2007-03-06, 08:20 PM
Even nitpickier . . . the shark jumping occurred during a special "Cunninghams and Hangers-on Go to Hawaii" episode of the show. So it happened in Hawaii. ;D

archon_huskie
2007-03-06, 11:26 PM
in any ase, the next strip erfworld has not jumped the shark at all.

pylonhead
2007-03-07, 01:26 AM
I like the concept. I like the artwork. I'm even titillated by the s&m.

I just wish they would keep the action moving. I find the pacing to be glacial. Two episodes a week require less posing, more plot movement!

Look at todays "What makes you think we're the bad guys" comic. We got the message after the first three panels, but then we have to sit thought 6 special effect panels that don't advance the story at all.

Give us the meat. What observations will Parson make that are key to the defense? What is Wanda's hidden agenda? How will Sizemore's liberal arts education save the day?

averagejoe
2007-03-07, 01:35 AM
While I do wish that I could read the entire comic today, the pacing is fine. It gives the comic style, and it's a good storytelling technique.

Caractacus
2007-03-07, 10:40 AM
True, it IS slow, but these are the penalties for being in on the Next Big Thing while it is still only a Relatively Small Thing (with apologies to Pratchett).

I like the artistic elements A LOT. I am not a seasoned traveller of Web-comics by any stretch of the imagination, but this strikes me as being really quite special, almost cinematographic.

I can handle a slow plot in exchange for this unusual bonus feature - I assume it woud be lost if we had to pack in more action. Or get the creators chained to a slave boat and forced to draw, draw, draw...

SteveMB
2007-03-07, 10:51 AM
Look at todays "What makes you think we're the bad guys" comic. We got the message after the first three panels, but then we have to sit thought 6 special effect panels that don't advance the story at all.
I disagree. The first three panels take Stanley from "annoying buffoon" to "annoying and angry buffoon making some vague threat". By the end, he's gotten to "OMG, pissing him off was a really bad idea" in a way that never came across before.

pylonhead
2007-03-07, 12:47 PM
Edit to note that I didn't see this post before I responded here.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36815
I'm glad to see that the authors are thinking about this. I think the comic has the potential to be amazing.




I like the artistic elements A LOT.

[...]

I can handle a slow plot in exchange for this unusual bonus feature - I assume it woud be lost if we had to pack in more action. Or get the creators chained to a slave boat and forced to draw, draw, draw...

That would be true if I thought we needed more panels. I think we need more efficient story telling. A director of a film would ask themselves, "If I need to establish this thread of the story, and I need to hit that emotional beat, what's the quickest way of visually accomplishing that to keep the film moving?"


I disagree. The first three panels take Stanley from "annoying buffoon" to "annoying and angry buffoon making some vague threat". By the end, he's gotten to "OMG, pissing him off was a really bad idea" in a way that never came across before.

Except that it's already been established that Parson is magically impelled to do his every bidding. Now the entire threat scene is completely off base. When you can order someone to lick your boots, and they have to comply, you don't need an army of dragons to keep them in line.

averagejoe
2007-03-07, 02:59 PM
It's not about keeping him in line. It's about being darned impressive. It means that Stanely could do worse things to you even if you don't directly disobey them. Heck, if I owned the arkenhammer, I'd be hellishly abusive of that particular feature. I'd be like, *ka-DWAGON* "As a matter of fact, I don't really want a subscription to your magazine!"

Plus Stanely is totally obsessed with himself. Mere obedience isn't enough. He needs awe and respect as well. It's a short guy thing.

Wardog
2007-03-07, 04:09 PM
Jumping the shark is a metaphor that was originally used to denote the tipping point at which a TV series is deemed to have passed its peak, or has introduced plot twists that are illogical in terms of everything that has preceded them. Once a show has "jumped the shark," fans sense a noticeable decline in quality or feel the show has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm. The term has also evolved to describe other areas of pop culture, including movie series, music, acting celebrities, or authors for whom a drastic change was seen as the beginning of the end. These changes are often attempts to attract their fans' waning attention with over-the-top statements or increasingly overt appeals to sex or violence. Some have broadened its use to simply describe any decline in appeal for the subject in question, without requiring a significant "jump the shark" moment.

Jump-the-shark moments are typically scenes that finally convince viewers that the show has fundamentally and permanently strayed from its original premise. In these cases, they are viewed as a desperate and futile attempt to keep a series fresh in the face of a decline in ratings. In other cases, the departure or replacement of a main cast member or character or a significant change in setting changes a critical dynamic of the show.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

I don't really see how this description could apply to Erfworld.

I don't see anything that could be described as illogical plot twists, or evidence that the series has "fundamentally and permanently strayed from its original premise". (And given the sureal nature of Erfwold, I would imagine that would be quite hard to do).

And Seeing that we are only on episode 31, I don't see how you can say that episode 30 was the point at which of a "noticeable decline in quality or feel the show has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm".

RecklessFable
2007-03-07, 04:27 PM
Even nitpickier . . . the shark jumping occurred during a special "Cunninghams and Hangers-on Go to Hawaii" episode of the show. So it happened in Hawaii. ;D

They were in Hawaii?!?!? Damn, my childhood memory is fading fast... *sniff*

But I'll never forget the Fonz in the air with the "Aaaaaaaaaayeeeee" cut to commercial cliffhanger :p

And now to totally threadjack, did anyone have to argue with their parents to be able to watch the final MASH episode because it was past their bedtime?

RecklessFable
2007-03-07, 04:35 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark

I don't really see how this description could apply to Erfworld.

I don't see anything that could be described as illogical plot twists, or evidence that the series has "fundamentally and permanently strayed from its original premise". (And given the sureal nature of Erfwold, I would imagine that would be quite hard to do).

And Seeing that we are only on episode 31, I don't see how you can say that episode 30 was the point at which of a "noticeable decline in quality or feel the show has undergone too many changes to retain its original charm".

Well, to play Devil's Advocate, one might easily say that now that Jumped the Shark is part of the vernacular, the meaning has expanded beyond the original meaning. "The Beginning of the End" seems to be closer to where the usage is settling.

To play another side of the arguement, one might argue that it Jumped when it went from a comic containing childish themes and childlike, big-eyed characters to having a Lesbian BDSM edge WAS a fundamental change.

The easiest arguement to make that it never Jumped is because it was never good or massively successful, and therefore doesn't have far enough to decline.

I guess the final arguement is that is actually a good comic or something, but I can't really argue that point effectively.

Personally, I don't like that it is no longer "Safe for Work", but then again, I only click on it when there is no new OOTS up and I've got 3 minutes to peruse a new comic.

Scientivore
2007-03-07, 07:55 PM
I guess maybe in Erfworld, sharks jump you?

Woohoo! I have a sig now! *happydance*

TinSoldier
2007-03-07, 09:13 PM
And now to totally threadjack, did anyone have to argue with their parents to be able to watch the final MASH episode because it was past their bedtime?Nope. We had watched MASH so long and had been fans for so long that it was a given to be able to watch the whole thing.

Of course, I was a teenager at the time as well.

pclips
2007-03-07, 10:07 PM
See, you stole our thunder. We've been considering a T-shirt that says:

In Erfworld, Peep Eats You!

Scientivore
2007-03-07, 10:34 PM
If there's a cool enough picture then I think that it wouldn't matter how stale the meme is. Like, have a couple of marauding gwiffons attacking a village. I see one in the center-left foreground chasing a fleeing villager (screaming and flailing his or her arms) diagonally into the bottom left corner with the gwiffon stretching its neck forward in eagerness as it runs. The other gwiffon is in the middle-right of the background, facing left, swallowing someone whole, head tilted back so that its neck is straight and its food can slide straight down, the villager in to his or her waist, legs still outside and kicking. The image could be balanced out as necessary with a few huts and some stereotyped fantasy village clutter, like a central well and some farming implements. I see it all on a clear background with no border, so that the entire t-shirt is the canvas. Then put that tagline beneath it and I think that would work! :smallbiggrin:

SmartAlec
2007-03-08, 06:49 AM
Except that it's already been established that Parson is magically impelled to do his every bidding. Now the entire threat scene is completely off base. When you can order someone to lick your boots, and they have to comply, you don't need an army of dragons to keep them in line.

The comic tells us what the Arkenhammer does.

Sure, it was mentioned before, but now we know EXACTLY what it does and how.

I bet that'll be important for the reader to know at some point.

Erk
2007-03-08, 06:57 AM
Also, the comic establishes an aspect of Stanley's character we hadn't seen, namely some strength and conviction. I don't think a pixel of it is wasted.

And yeah, the torture scene was gratuitous, but gratuity != shark jumping. Wanda's fanservice is fast becoming one of her hallmarks. It is cute.

Luvlein
2007-03-08, 07:28 AM
And yeah, the torture scene was gratuitous.
I disagree. I consider Erf 30 to be very important, plot-wise as well as in developing two of the main characters. People complaining about the pace of 31 probably do so because it is in contrast with the very fast and complex 30.

Scientivore
2007-03-08, 07:50 AM
Aha! I coincidentally just discovered pclips' own litmus test for webcomic shark-jumping (http://www.partiallyclips.com/index.php?id=1091&c=1): making fart jokes and breaking the fourth wall. Nice to know what to not expect.

SteveMB
2007-03-08, 11:40 AM
And yeah, the torture scene was gratuitous, but gratuity != shark jumping. Wanda's fanservice is fast becoming one of her hallmarks. It is cute.
There's a lot more to it than fanservice (not that there's anything wrong with that).

What's behind Jillian's proposal? Did she realize the risk that Wanda would react that way? If so, she must have been pretty highly motivated -- by what? If not, is she now taking this situation a lot more seriously than her previous cavalier attitude (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0008.html) about being captured?

As for Wanda, the "Call me Mistress" line seems a bit odd, really -- an island of fanservicable BDSM play in the middle of a genuinely brutal torture session. (My guess is that she simply doesn't want Jillian addressing her by name, as a preemptive dismissal of any more friendly overtures.)

Erk
2007-03-09, 12:03 AM
I didn't mean that the scene was superfluous. I meant that it was a gratuity: pages 29 and 30 were clearly designed to be fanservice. That doesn't mean they do not serve a purpose and advance the plot. Gratuitous and superfluous are not synonyms. "Given or received without cost or obligation; free" in this case.

I loved the torture comic and I find fanservice annoying, so that should say plenty.

TinSoldier
2007-03-09, 11:15 AM
Aha! I coincidentally just discovered pclips' own litmus test for webcomic shark-jumping (http://www.partiallyclips.com/index.php?id=1091&c=1): making fart jokes and breaking the fourth wall. Nice to know what to not expect.Heh. That was great!

Green Bean
2007-03-09, 12:27 PM
It's not about keeping him in line. It's about being darned impressive. It means that Stanely could do worse things to you even if you don't directly disobey them. Heck, if I owned the arkenhammer, I'd be hellishly abusive of that particular feature. I'd be like, *ka-DWAGON* "As a matter of fact, I don't really want a subscription to your magazine!"

Plus Stanely is totally obsessed with himself. Mere obedience isn't enough. He needs awe and respect as well. It's a short guy thing.

Agreed. Stanley doesn't want to order people to obey him: he wants them to do it anyway out of fear.

Besides, I think that this comic made me move him from 'idiotic, incompetant overlord' to 'idiotic, incompetant overlord, that you don't want to mess with'

Daedalus73
2007-03-09, 01:14 PM
Turn-based sapphic domination, catch it now at giantitp.com!

I really liked Erfworld when it came out ... it was intriguing, and different. As the story evolved it began to interest me more & more. I've posted here before (which btw isn't necessary to have a valid opinion, despite what some prolific posters like to think), sometimes with praise and glee and one time with a "ho-hum". I've never been an Erf-basher.

The OP's opinion seems to strike true to me. It seems like excessive fan-service to Wanda and Jillian to me, and it's really begun to turn me off to the comic. Which is a shame, because I've really enjoyed it until recently.

--an Erfworld fan

JonathanC
2007-03-09, 02:41 PM
You know, I honestly think that a lot of this "outrage" over so-called "fan service" in episode 30 is just a smokescreen. I think people are just mad that their favorite character, who we already know is *supposed* to be (nominally) a villain, is finally ACTING LIKE ONE. That's right! Wanda, the Necromancer who sends incompetent troop leaders to die knowing that they aren't competent, then raises their dead bodies as enslaved mockeries of life, has finally done something "bad" on screen.

Oooh! Somebody call the police!

If you're going to root for the bad guy, fine. She's a fairly sympathetic "bad guy". But don't cry and whine whenever they finally start behaving in something less than a heroic manner. If you want heroes, go cheer for Prince Ansom's forces.

SteveMB
2007-03-09, 03:09 PM
Wanda, the Necromancer who sends incompetent troop leaders to die knowing that they aren't competent
Huh? That's Stanley's doing -- Wanda clearly understands that it's a bad idea (though we don't know how hard she tried to dissuade him before it finally came down to their last chance to avoid total defeat, and she implies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html) that her ability to do so before it came down to this was limited).

JonathanC
2007-03-09, 06:35 PM
Huh? That's Stanley's doing -- Wanda clearly understands that it's a bad idea (though we don't know how hard she tried to dissuade him before it finally came down to their last chance to avoid total defeat, and she implies (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0005.html) that her ability to do so before it came down to this was limited).
Irregardless, she did it. In fact, she studied how to do it for quite some time, and apparently doing so is her main interest, as far as magic goes. She takes dead bodies and animates them, and not for any particularly nice purpose.

She's not the "big bad guy" in the strip, and may or may not be considered a monster, but she is certainly villainous. One of the main problems I have with a lot of fans (of a variety of comics) is that they can't stand a real villain. They want to root for the bad guys, have the good guys be bland and easily ignored, and look forward to when the bad guys thrash them.

Well, there's nothing wrong with liking a villain. But I prefer for my villains to have an edge; I don't care about Darth Vader as an innocent little boy. I want the Darth Vader who's executing children in the Jedi Temple. Because when he gets tossed into lava and burnt to a crisp, I'm glad to see him go. That's what a villain is for.

It was stated from several strips ago that Wanda's "hobby" is torturing people. Acting surprised when she appears to enjoy torturing people (most people enjoy their hobbies, you know) just strikes me as disingenuous.

spite48
2007-03-09, 06:42 PM
I really don't understand why people post on forums for free webcomics that they don't like. Some of us are really really enjoying erfworld. There's plenty of internet for everyone, go find a part that you like. I hear OOTS is really good.

Silver
2007-03-09, 08:14 PM
I really don't understand why people post on forums for free webcomics that they don't like. Some of us are really really enjoying erfworld. There's plenty of internet for everyone, go find a part that you like. I hear OOTS is really good.

I imagine that most people who just flat don't like Erfworld *don't* post here. I'm seeing people (including the one in the mirror) who do like it, but don't like the turn it took, and care enough to give the creators feedback.

JonathanC
2007-03-09, 08:38 PM
Wanda finally doing something evil is a turn that was long overdue.

Daedalus73
2007-03-09, 11:07 PM
You know, I honestly think that a lot of this "outrage" over so-called "fan service" in episode 30 is just a smokescreen. I think people are just mad that their favorite character, who we already know is *supposed* to be (nominally) a villain, is finally ACTING LIKE ONE. That's right! Wanda, the Necromancer who sends incompetent troop leaders to die knowing that they aren't competent, then raises their dead bodies as enslaved mockeries of life, has finally done something "bad" on screen.

Oooh! Somebody call the police!

If you're going to root for the bad guy, fine. She's a fairly sympathetic "bad guy". But don't cry and whine whenever they finally start behaving in something less than a heroic manner. If you want heroes, go cheer for Prince Ansom's forces.

Sorry, you missed the mark. At least with me. I have no problem liking fictional villians who do bad bad things. It's the excessive and blatant fanservice that I don't like.

Daedalus73
2007-03-09, 11:07 PM
I imagine that most people who just flat don't like Erfworld *don't* post here. I'm seeing people (including the one in the mirror) who do like it, but don't like the turn it took, and care enough to give the creators feedback.

So very true.

Panda So Angry
2007-03-10, 04:56 PM
Sorry, you missed the mark. At least with me. I have no problem liking fictional villians who do bad bad things. It's the excessive and blatant fanservice that I don't like.

Is it "fanservice"? Could just be all you little deviants are reading more into it than is really there. You can certainly make the case for some of the things suggested in the forum, and it is possible that had some minor influence on how some of the panels ultimately turned out. But it seems to me that the writing was on the wall and some of the fans jumped what seemed to be the logical conclusion, at the very least a probable one.

I personally believe that the comics are colored in part by what's said on the forum, but really don't have an impact on the original intent of the creators. That they already have the roadmap of the comic and so you'll find tidbits here and there, where they don't impact the storyline, that are thrown in for the fans. I make this point because I think a comic that has no direction would stoop to "fanservice" as a gimmick to keep readers.

'Sides, I don't think we've seen the full scope of what is really going on between Wanda and Jillian to chalk their interaction up to "fanservice".

Vonriel
2007-03-10, 11:20 PM
I'm gonna argue against the fact that it was simlpy 'fanservice'. That term implies that there was absolutely nothing to be gained other than a bit of eye candy. In all honesty, I can agree that maybe portions of it were unnecessary. Maybe. In fact, the only part I'd agree on that with is Wanda's choice of costume, which could've been less revealing. But hey, it's not my place to judge what the artist wanted to draw, since it is partially his comic.

As for why I argue my point. The only hint of sexual innuendo in there was Jillian's response to Wanda assuming she'd have to torture her. I assume that Jillian has been captured enough by now to become tired with always having to be hurt and humiliated by Wanda, and decided to try a different approach. Wanda realized it for what it was and in turn gave the prisoner a lashing with what appeared to be a cat o' nine tails. Damn nasty things, if you ask me. As for what Wanda said, maybe Jillian has a habit of trying to seduce Wanda, and Wanda has decided to keep things as Mistress (Purely the feminine form of master, by the way, and it came about long before any sort of .. well, I'm going to say 'odd' so as not to offend anyone, so.. odd sexual play came into being) and Prisoner, much the way a tyrant wanting to dehumanize someone else will refer to them as something akin to "Subject <#>" or "Prisoner <#>" and having them constantly refer to the tyrant as 'master' or 'lord'. It's a way to continually reinforce that they are nothing, and that the tyrant is their superior in every possible way.

Could this have been done in a different way? Maybe, but then the relationship between the two wouldn't have wound up as developed as it is.

Rawhide
2007-03-30, 10:10 PM
Aha! I coincidentally just discovered pclips' own litmus test for webcomic shark-jumping (http://www.partiallyclips.com/index.php?id=1091&c=1): making fart jokes and breaking the fourth wall. Nice to know what to not expect.
Am I too late to point out that the follow on strip is also related and highly amusing :smallwink:
http://www.partiallyclips.com/index.php?id=1092&c=1

Stormthorn
2007-04-04, 12:04 PM
Aha! I coincidentally just discovered pclips' own litmus test for webcomic shark-jumping (http://www.partiallyclips.com/index.php?id=1091&c=1): making fart jokes and breaking the fourth wall. Nice to know what to not expect.


Well, I dont know what to say about fart jokes, but one of the best comics I ever read was 1/0, and in that, the fourth wall was a personal perspective that a few characters had.

Dark
2007-04-05, 03:20 PM
I don't really get the concept of "fanservice", or why it would be bad. If a comic is not designed to appeal to its fans, then... who should it appeal to? Is there an audience of non-fans that is more significant? I guess that would be the dreaded "critics". Screw them, I say.

In any case, I enjoyed the hints of a sexual relationship between Wanda and Jillian. There are hints about lots of things in that strip, and figuring out what's really going on between them is a tantalizing puzzle. Why did Wanda change outfits? Especially to white, which easily stains? What exactly was the "easy way"?

I see people calling out the sexual aspects and evaluating whether they're "gratuitous", but to me that seems like admiring a painting and then saying "You know... the artist didn't really need any blue in this". Indeed, presumably the painting could have been made without the color blue. It would have been a different painting, though. And why would you have to justify the use of one color among many?

I notice that no-one complained about gratuitous violence :)

Stormthorn
2007-04-05, 04:13 PM
I see people calling out the sexual aspects and evaluating whether they're "gratuitous", but to me that seems like admiring a painting and then saying "You know... the artist didn't really need any blue in this". Indeed, presumably the painting could have been made without the color blue. It would have been a different painting, though. And why would you have to justify the use of one color among many?



Brava!!


(added this for minumum characters needed)

Scientivore
2007-04-05, 04:26 PM
I notice that no-one complained about gratuitous violence :)

That cultural double standard is a pet peeve of mine, however I deleted the following rant because I'm not sure if it might break the forum rules.

ArkhamPatient
2007-04-11, 12:18 AM
It's just another story arc, and one that can keep us guessing and hoping for a while. That is a good thing, not a shark jumping.