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View Full Version : How much wood would a woodchuck chuck?



Corsair420
2014-08-15, 09:13 PM
but in all seriousness, I was pondering, how much strength would the average PC need to crush another humans skull? I've been able to find lift capacity but not force measurements, using the high end of what I've found that it would take to crush a human skull, it would take 200 pounds of force, and that is dependent on the direction it is crushed(ie ear to ear, or jaw to top of head) it may obviously take much less.

Mr Beer
2014-08-16, 06:27 AM
I think it's beyond real life human max strength but not hugely so. It depends on what ST scale you use, say we use ST:20 as human max I would say ST:30.

Jay R
2014-08-16, 08:09 AM
In the words of Frozone's wife, "Why do you need to know?"

Palegreenpants
2014-08-16, 08:12 AM
I want to make a Star Trek: Into Darkness reference.

Corsair420
2014-08-16, 01:04 PM
In the words of Frozone's wife, "Why do you need to know?"

Because I need it!



I think it's beyond real life human max strength but not hugely so. It depends on what ST scale you use, say we use ST:20 as human max I would say ST:30.

I'm talking about dnd rules, theres no cap to stats, so i'm pondering what a player character would need in str to crush another humans skull

Jay R
2014-08-16, 01:15 PM
Because I need it!

That asserts that there is a reason. I didn't ask if there was a reason; I asked what the reason was.


I'm talking about dnd rules, theres no cap to stats, so i'm pondering what a player character would need in str to crush another humans skull

Assuming D&D rules, very is a very wide margin of how many hit points of damage is necessary to do that level of damage. The answer, I suppose, is, "Enough that a single two-handed unarmed attack does enough damage to kill." That would be much less strength against a 1st level commoner than against a 10th level Fighter.

Corsair420
2014-08-16, 01:20 PM
That asserts that there is a reason. I didn't ask if there was a reason; I asked what the reason was.

Dammit woman! where. is. my. super. suit!

Assuming D&D rules, very is a very wide margin of how many hit points of damage is necessary to do that level of damage. The answer, I suppose, is, "Enough that a single two-handed unarmed attack does enough damage to kill." That would be much less strength against a 1st level commoner than against a 10th level Fighter.

but that doesnt' necessarily mean cracked skull, you punch someone in the chest you can rupture organs, but is there a graph or something someone has made that denotes the force applied based on strength? not necessarily wotc, but even a person who used some math and/or logic

Jacob.Tyr
2014-08-16, 01:51 PM
In 3.5, I'd say anything that allows you to deal 50 damage with an unarmed attack, triggering massive damage/death save.

Jacob.Tyr
2014-08-16, 02:01 PM
but that doesnt' necessarily mean cracked skull, you punch someone in the chest you can rupture organs, but is there a graph or something someone has made that denotes the force applied based on strength? not necessarily wotc, but even a person who used some math and/or logic
Just use the carrying capacity chart. You can lift your maximum load over your head, so your arms can exert at least that much force if applied from the proper angle. If you're going with the target of 200lbs of force, 15 STR.

But you can also push 5X your maximum load, although in reality this would be done by the legs. Nothing about distance or muscle groups used is in the RAW, though, so one could argue that you are pushing it away from you a slight distance using your arms, which would be similar to crushing someones head between your hands (would use chest muscles). In that case, you just need a max load of 40lbs to exert 200lbs of force. Str 5, then, can crush someones head between their hands.

nedz
2014-08-16, 02:03 PM
36 pounds per square inch, apparently (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_force_is_required_to_crush_a_human_skull) .

They don't show their working, so I've no idea if this is accurate YMMV.

Jacob.Tyr
2014-08-16, 02:08 PM
36 pounds per square inch, apparently (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_force_is_required_to_crush_a_human_skull) .

They don't show their working, so I've no idea if this is accurate YMMV.

So Tiny-Hands the 4 str commoner could crush a skull with his bizarrely tiny hands.

Corsair420
2014-08-16, 02:24 PM
you really cant use lift, because its different muscle groups, legs and such is used for any kind of lifting, you'd need to calculate the amount of force the aveage human can exert just crushing something between their hands that gives you a baseline for 10 str which is human average, then you can figur out how to calculate that based on math needed to increase carrying capacity, (example being 10 str emits 10 psi, and can lift 100 pounds, 11 str can lift 120, the math would intidicate that they could emit 12 psi when crushing something) thats just an exmaple and not based on anything, but that is how i think it would need to be calculated

nedz
2014-08-16, 04:20 PM
So Tiny-Hands the 4 str commoner could crush a skull with his bizarrely tiny hands.

That would open up an amusing Rules Dysfunction: the smaller you are the easier it is to crush someone's skull given equal strength. Thankfully the rules are silent on this option at least in every game system I've ever seen.

Mr Beer
2014-08-16, 04:53 PM
Thankfully the rules are silent on this option at least in every game system I've ever seen.

"Thankfully"? This is an egregious oversight sir!

Mr Beer
2014-08-16, 04:56 PM
I'm talking about dnd rules, theres no cap to stats, so i'm pondering what a player character would need in str to crush another humans skull

I think you'll have to house rule it and I would use something like a successful wrestling attack followed by enough damage to kill and the attacker has ST:30 (or whatever is somewhat past real life human max) can crush the victim's skull.

Kafana
2014-08-16, 05:15 PM
Oberyn Martell does not approve.

Jacob.Tyr
2014-08-16, 05:18 PM
I think you'll have to house rule it and I would use something like a successful wrestling attack followed by enough damage to kill and the attacker has ST:30 (or whatever is somewhat past real life human max) can crush the victim's skull.

Unarmed coup de grace against an opponent you've just knocked out in a grapple would also be viable.

Millennium
2014-08-16, 05:26 PM
A good woodchuck would chuck as much wood as it should. No word yet on Neutral or Evil woodchucks, though, nor how the situation would change for dire woodchucks of any alignment.

As for cracking open a human skull, Fluffmodeous claims that it only takes seven pounds of pressure, as long as you do it from the inside (http://somethingpositive.net/sp12262006.shtml). However, seeing as he's not a woodchuck (no one is quite clear on exactly what he is), I'm not sure if it's in scope or not. The comic's author, however, is fairly likely to have done his homework.

From the outside, I think you may have to just go with 36 psi.

Slipperychicken
2014-08-16, 05:27 PM
D&D likes to resolve this with break (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm#walls) DCs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems). A 6 inch thick wooden wall is DC 20, and a 3 inch thick iron door is DC 30.

Since bone is stronger than wood, but skulls are thinner than 6 inches, my first guess is around strength DC 25 to break a skull by with your bare hands (not punching the skull, but forcing ones hands together while holding it). With that DC, the minimum required modifier is +5, meaning you need either Strength 20, or extra bonuses from somewhere.

Mastikator
2014-08-16, 06:01 PM
So Tiny-Hands the 4 str commoner could crush a skull with his bizarrely tiny hands.

Your hands would basically be spears at that point, it's not crushing, just piercing the cranium with your hands.

Hell, with a sharp rock many people could probably crush a human skull.

Corsair420
2014-08-16, 06:39 PM
Saying it takes 36 psi does no good when you don't know in game how much strength is required to reach that much, but using a break dc makes a lot of sense, I'm sure somewhere in one of the books is a hardness for bone as there is bone armor and such things

Sith_Happens
2014-08-17, 04:37 PM
D&D likes to resolve this with break (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/dungeons.htm#walls) DCs (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#breakingItems). A 6 inch thick wooden wall is DC 20, and a 3 inch thick iron door is DC 30.

Since bone is stronger than wood, but skulls are thinner than 6 inches, my first guess is around strength DC 25 to break a skull by with your bare hands (not punching the skull, but forcing ones hands together while holding it). With that DC, the minimum required modifier is +5, meaning you need either Strength 20, or extra bonuses from somewhere.

The average human skull is just over a quarter-inch thick, so there's no way we're talking higher than DC 20.

Slipperychicken
2014-08-17, 07:39 PM
The average human skull is just over a quarter-inch thick, so there's no way we're talking higher than DC 20.

The strength check to burst doors assumes you're putting your whole body into it. With our skull-crushing exercise, it's just hands and arms.


As for it being higher than DC 20, we would want to determine whether the average person could crush a skull with his bare hands. If this feat of strength by necessity requires someone stronger than average, the DC would need to be higher than 20.

Erik Vale
2014-08-17, 08:23 PM
*Looks*
Ok, everything's Answered, but from Tittle to first line I thought.
'Boy. That escalated quickly...'

Corsair420
2014-08-17, 09:45 PM
How much strength is needed? To skull thickness, psi, and break dc