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Emperor Demonking
2007-03-06, 02:00 PM
I really loved this one keep up the good work.
Is it just me or does Stanley not like being called a bad guy.

Maxymiuk
2007-03-06, 02:00 PM
Sooo.... Is that what they call begging the question? :smallamused:

chionophile
2007-03-06, 02:00 PM
Wow. Stanley can be scary! Impressive.

Edit: Huh. Three Erf 31 threads all within 30 seconds of each other. Yikes.

ObadiahtheSlim
2007-03-06, 02:01 PM
I guess we get to see what good and evil really are here.

Raistlin1040
2007-03-06, 02:03 PM
Loved it. What makes you think we're the "bad guys" Well apart from the undead and the red dragons...

musicnerd
2007-03-06, 02:05 PM
ok, I didn't like the last comic, but this one was awesome! we finally got to see an arkentool in action :)

spite48
2007-03-06, 02:08 PM
What does the pink dragon breathe?

Maxymiuk
2007-03-06, 02:08 PM
There's something to be said for three threads going up nearly simultaneously right after the new comic is up...


In other news, here is what I've been brining up in practically every alignment thread over in Gaming. Namely, evil does not think of itself as evil.

Of course, Stanley could be in the right.

*gasp* "Vot a tvist!"

Ironfist Orc
2007-03-06, 02:09 PM
"What makes you think we are the bad guys?" A very good question indeed. (Defend the croakamancy - the most misunderstood discipline.)

Grug
2007-03-06, 02:10 PM
Whoah! Stanley is Pissed!!!

Om
2007-03-06, 02:27 PM
What does the pink dragon breathe?Love :smallwink:

Woot Spitum
2007-03-06, 02:28 PM
What does the pink dragon breathe?

Bubblegum or molten taffy.

Anything sugary.

Kriel
2007-03-06, 02:28 PM
Note to self: Stanley may be inept as a leader, but it is really NOT a smart idea to piss him off.

Neofite
2007-03-06, 02:30 PM
Wow!!! I guess Stanley thinks he's on the side of good :)

Om
2007-03-06, 02:33 PM
Wow!!! I guess Stanley thinks he's on the side of good :)Didn't you know? Everyone thinks that they are on the side of good.

I do wonder if Parson's comment was a dig at us fans though.

SteveMB
2007-03-06, 02:33 PM
Wow!!! I guess Stanley thinks he's on the side of good :)
Doesn't everybody?

I mean seriously, in the real world [scrubbed].

Jarelk
2007-03-06, 02:36 PM
Lovely. Parson still has the upper hand though. I mean, what is Stanley going to do, harm him? Parson can use Stanley's shortage of warlords as a threat.

"Harm me and I will refuse to lead your armies!"

Woot Spitum
2007-03-06, 02:38 PM
Wouldn't it be great if the forces of Gobwin Knob turn out to be the good guys? Now Parson gets to explain to Lord Stanley that in our world, "bad" can mean "good."

Khantalas
2007-03-06, 02:38 PM
Doesn't everybody?

I mean seriously, in the real world [scrubbed].

[Scrubbed]

Go go Flower Dragons! (If you don't get the reference... tsk tsk.)

chionophile
2007-03-06, 02:42 PM
There's something to be said for three threads going up nearly simultaneously right after the new comic is up...

No kidding...

Anyways, I like the dragon types. Looking forward to finding out what pink-bubbly dragon does. And exactly how they use the crap-dragon in combat. Looks like it's meant to be used mostly for ground bombardment.

Hilary Moon Murphy
2007-03-06, 02:43 PM
Wow!!! I guess Stanley thinks he's on the side of good :)


Of course he's on the side of good. (What's good for Stanley must be good...)

http://www.sff.net/people/hmm/images/angel.gif

Lovely to see the Arkenhammer in action.
Hmm

Neofite
2007-03-06, 02:45 PM
Man, is it saturday yet?!?!?!?!

Lefty the Drunken Lush
2007-03-06, 02:47 PM
Oopsy. Slip of the tongue. In my world, bad means good. Besides, I said 'rad guys'.

pyrofly
2007-03-06, 02:56 PM
Maxymiuk, love the quote! Had the theme song runnin' through my head all day.

OcoM
2007-03-06, 03:00 PM
I just LOVE alignment issues. Have had several games ruined by it.

But let's go back to the dark dungeon where the girls are, girls and ...whipping and a mistress and ....a mistress and whipping....
:smallredface: :smallwink: :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

Tharj TreeSmiter
2007-03-06, 03:02 PM
Maybe it's just the abundance of extralength OOTS strips but the erfworlds strips never seem to get as much story out in one comic. It's a little frusterating because I'm actually starting to get into it now.

Woot Spitum
2007-03-06, 03:06 PM
I just LOVE alignment issues. Have had several games ruined by it.

But let's go back to the dark dungeon where the girls are, girls and ...whipping and a mistress and ....a mistress and whipping....
:smallredface: :smallwink: :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

It's too late for that now. No, now Jillian must face the unspeakable horror that is...A room with a moose!

dakiwiboid
2007-03-06, 03:10 PM
However, did anyone notice that Parson is still big even next to a dwagon? Of course, he probably can't do much against clouds of black smoke, fire, lightning, sulfur and bubble gum, or whatever it is that the pink dragon breathes, but he isn't dwarfed as much by them as everyone else is.

Indon
2007-03-06, 03:18 PM
Ah, that was amusing.

"Evil? We're not evil! If you call me evil again, I'll roast your soul over an open fire!"

Though, I am intrigued by the possibility that perhaps, due to Erfworld's odd laws, not only does Stanley consider himself a good guy, but everyone else considers themselves the bad guys.

ElfLad
2007-03-06, 03:24 PM
They're not evil; they're eviw. No, I don't know how that's pronounced.

OcoM
2007-03-06, 03:26 PM
It's too late for that now. No, now Jillian must face the unspeakable horror that is...A room with a moose!

I need that wormhole, I NEED IT. Anyways, i'd be a lot more worried about Rubber Piggies.

benthehater
2007-03-06, 03:26 PM
How could anyone ona quest to seek the legendary tools of the titans be anything but the most holy and good? And also a tool?

It's plausible. Ansom weilds the Arkenpliers but can't really use them for much apart from a melee weapon. He's not worthy of them?

And, well, I don't think it's been revealed to us the precise reason that Ansom's alliance has gathered to crush Stanley's shrinking empire. Just because Ansom has a nice red radish on his armor doesn't necessarily mean he's a nice guy upholding the cause of goody goody goodness.

(Is that a radish?)

Tharj TreeSmiter
2007-03-06, 03:26 PM
Ah, that was amusing.

"Evil? We're not evil! If you call me evil again, I'll roast your soul over an open fire!"

Though, I am intrigued by the possibility that perhaps, due to Erfworld's odd laws, not only does Stanley consider himself a good guy, but everyone else considers themselves the bad guys.

I think that is just the perspective, if you look at the bottom left frame there are some dwagons that have landed next to him and he is much smaller.

GreedyAlgorithm
2007-03-06, 03:27 PM
It appears Parson is pretty much integrated into Erfworld now.
His font certainly suggests as much.

Om
2007-03-06, 03:28 PM
Wow. There really is a "Crap Dwagon"

benthehater
2007-03-06, 03:30 PM
It appears Parson is pretty much integrated into Erfworld now.
His font certainly suggests as much.

Good eyes on that. Even 29 still had a slightly different font for Parson.

Ave
2007-03-06, 03:42 PM
Haha, now people who said Parson would like to play on the goodie side will sulk in the corner.
And i guess those who said Stanley is definitely the evil side start to gulp nervously too.

pclips
2007-03-06, 03:46 PM
It appears Parson is pretty much integrated into Erfworld now.
His font certainly suggests as much.

D'oh!!!!! :smallmad:

Azrael
2007-03-06, 03:49 PM
Wait.

If Rob is reading people's spoilers, why are we spoilering them?

Woot Spitum
2007-03-06, 03:51 PM
Wait.

If Rob is reading people's spoilers, why are we spoilering them?

So as not to spoil them for other readers who might want to be surprised by what happens next in the strip.

Wolf53226
2007-03-06, 03:53 PM
Maybe he doesn't care? I mean, I know the Giant cares to not read spoilers about his comic, but Rob seems to always be interacting and telling people if they get something right based on observed things.

Luvlein
2007-03-06, 03:55 PM
And i guess those who said Stanley is definitely the evil side start to gulp nervously too.
Not at all.

Runolfr
2007-03-06, 04:03 PM
Lovely. Parson still has the upper hand though. I mean, what is Stanley going to do, harm him? Parson can use Stanley's shortage of warlords as a threat.

"Harm me and I will refuse to lead your armies!"

Umm... he can't refuse. Magically compelled to obey, remember?

Of course, he might become a morale case.

Sebastian
2007-03-06, 04:03 PM
Loved it. What makes you think we're the "bad guys" Well apart from the undead and the red dragons...

Well, for the evil side there is also the use of torture and the fact that they have no problem in forcing an intelligne being in fight for them against his will, also they have henchmen and lackeys, not self respecting Good Guy would have them. And last but not least tool Stanley jokes are awful but he want people to laugh at them all the same (typical evil overlord behaviour) .

OTOH for the for what would make them the good guys there is... nothing that I can see.

dauntilus
2007-03-06, 04:03 PM
What does the pink dragon breathe?

Heart:elan:

Aerysil
2007-03-06, 04:05 PM
Never discuss alignment in-game. Never.

SteveMB
2007-03-06, 04:06 PM
And i guess those who said Stanley is definitely the evil side start to gulp nervously too.
Not necessarily; as several people noted, everybody thinks their own side is the good side (or, even if they're totally cynical about "good" and "bad", they at least say their side is the good side for public consumption).

DCR
2007-03-06, 04:07 PM
Time for Lord Hammy to wise up and quit 'playing', methinks.

...But why oh why would Stan care about the Ham Sir's opinion?

SteveMB
2007-03-06, 04:11 PM
...But why oh why would Stan care about the Ham Sir's opinion?
He probably doesn't, really; he's just (if we take his reaction at face value) annoyed at being insulted.

Then again, if the Tool is really annoyed, he doesn't need to threaten him with dwagons, he can just disband him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0019.html).

slayerx
2007-03-06, 04:22 PM
Hmm... yup, just goes to show that riding on a dragon can make just about anyone look intimidating
Looks like Stanely doesn't like being called the bad guy... and from Bogroll, we can tell that this isn't the first time someone called Stanely a "bad guy"

and it seems parson's even bigger then Bogroll


What does the pink dragon breathe?

Looking at Panel 4, seems to be bubbles or seomthing like that

so...
Blue is lightning
red is fire
brown is Smoke/smog?
Yellow... not sure what that is... crap?
Pink is bubbles... gum?


Lovely. Parson still has the upper hand though. I mean, what is Stanley going to do, harm him? Parson can use Stanley's shortage of warlords as a threat.

"Harm me and I will refuse to lead your armies!"
Magic kinda prevents him from refusing to lead...
a much better statement would be
"y'know, if you kill me, it'll make it rather hard for me to lead your troops"

unfortunatly... that still leaves him open to being maimed
So kinda best to just swim with the tide not against it

Ultimatum479
2007-03-06, 04:22 PM
Really? Is that how you guys are seeing this: Stanley feeling insulted about being called a "bad guy"? Strange. That whole strip looks to me like he's relishing his power, and the last line is completely intentionally sarcastic. I think he _loves_ being called a "bad guy".

Oh, and Parson's appearance is also getting closer and closer to the general Erfworld feel, not just his font.

mikeejimbo
2007-03-06, 04:26 PM
They're all evil. Also, they all think they're good.

Wait, no, that's real life I'm thinking of.

SteveMB
2007-03-06, 04:28 PM
Really? Is that how you guys are seeing this: Stanley feeling insulted about being called a "bad guy"? Strange. That whole strip looks to me like he's relishing his power, and the last line is completely intentionally sarcastic. I think he _loves_ being called a "bad guy".
You have a point (hence my "if we take his reaction at face value" caveat).

I think he's sufficiently irritated to put a scare into Parson (and have some fun showing off), but not all that angry (again, he could just disband Parson if provoked far enough -- he doesn't seem the type to think ahead to the "oh, boop, now how do I get a strategy to win this war" problem before reacting).

TinSoldier
2007-03-06, 04:40 PM
No, I think Stanley is pissed about being called a bad guy. Even Bogroll seemed to know Stanley would get mad as soon as the words were out of Parson's mouth.

chionophile
2007-03-06, 04:40 PM
Wait.

If Rob is reading people's spoilers, why are we spoilering them?


So as not to spoil them for other readers who might want to be surprised by what happens next in the strip.


Maybe he doesn't care? I mean, I know the Giant cares to not read spoilers about his comic, but Rob seems to always be interacting and telling people if they get something right based on observed things.

I'm pretty sure that Rob has specifically stated that it's not necessary to spoiler-tag speculation, since he has the entire story planned out already. It doesn't matter what we say, he's not changing it at this point.

As for other people being "spoiled" by speculation... that's just silly. It's speculation. No one knows what's going to happen next except Rob and Jamie.


Really? Is that how you guys are seeing this: Stanley feeling insulted about being called a "bad guy"? Strange. That whole strip looks to me like he's relishing his power, and the last line is completely intentionally sarcastic. I think he _loves_ being called a "bad guy".

I disagree with this. Stanley is pissed. You can tell because his eyes are black and he has angry eyebrows and such. Also, Bogroll looks terrified. Probably not without reason.

Marller
2007-03-06, 04:43 PM
What does the pink dragon breathe?
Air Freshener.

KillerCardinal
2007-03-06, 04:45 PM
No, I think Stanley is pissed about being called a bad guy. Even Bogroll seemed to know Stanley would get mad as soon as the words were out of Parson's mouth.

I would have to agree with this. I definately think that we are about to find out more about this conflict.

I would guess that stanley is about to tell us why he is searching for the arkentools, obviously spun so that he is the hero. However, if he isn't actually good, I expect him to slip up and say something that proves to us he isn't good, since I don't have the most respect for his oratory capabilities at this point.

Carrion_Humanoid
2007-03-06, 04:55 PM
I love the Expression on his face with those HUGE BLACK eyes

ichthus
2007-03-06, 04:57 PM
Agreed, Tool is peeved. I'm guessing that he's been repeatedly and unfairly painted as the bad guy by (most likely) Ansom's camp. We're coming in in the middle of a long waged war. We don't know who started it or why. As readers, we must wait for the exposition to present itself. And a good storyteller will paint a 'good guy' as a bad scary person or is painted as one by the society around them. Beauty and the Beast. Spiderman (J Jonah Jameson is devoted to the idea that Spiderman is a villain). Batman. Strider in Lord of the Rings is originally portrayed as a scary person. Leeroy Jenkins is a kind-hearted soul... err... forget that one.

mandarinka
2007-03-06, 05:01 PM
I mean seriously, in the real world [scrubbed]. [Scrubbed]

Green Bean
2007-03-06, 05:05 PM
Nice. Looks like there's some alignment issues in Erfworld :smallbiggrin:

Hart av Srednak
2007-03-06, 05:12 PM
I predicted this in Episode 23 thread


Parson himself must be evil because he curses (or tries to curse) so much. He also bites the head of that cute innocent birdcandy in a way that looks intentionally. He also listens aggressive music.

Also he is strategy gamer. So I suppose he has immorally commanded armies of every alingment and enjoyed.. enjoyed war, is that evil?

I think he's commanding good guys but he's bad guy himself.

EDIT: ansom is also evil cause he uses armies of his allies as cannon fodders
EDIT2: my point is that (almost) every commander of any army in history has thought that something (be it a god, or fate, or superior skill or anything) has given him a right to be in that position and in that position he's entitled to use almost any machivellian means to win. It's up to me and you if that's good or evil (or does good and evil even exist).
I think that Ansom, Stanley, Parson, Zillian and Wanda all fit in that catecory. Troops a side they are just cannon fodders.

I'm beginnig to be quite sure that even though they (Rob and Jami) have story preplanned. They remake some pages comment or make fun of our speculations (like this good/bad and Lord Hamster). Well, I can laught at myself:
ROFL

Xenon
2007-03-06, 05:28 PM
heh :) love the expression on bogrolls face.

nice power of the hammer there. and probably a full week of cliffhanger.

eilandesq
2007-03-06, 05:29 PM
Parson should be fine if he thinks fast: Stanley already thinks that Parson's home world is insanely strange, and if Parson just sticks to more or less the truth ("Your Toolness, in my world those who animate the dead and command dragons and spiders. . .er, dwagons and spidews, are considered bad guys by most. I've got no problem with them myself, but I'm used to working with armies that most of my people consider evil--that must be why the spell brought me here.") Stanley will probably give him a pitying look and snap something back like, "Well, we're not on your stupid world--I'm the good guy, and if I hear you say differently again I'll disband you and feed what remains to the dwagons!" Crisis averted.

KitsuneChan
2007-03-06, 05:36 PM
<snip> Well comunists had/have no problems with killing, stealing, lying, making people shut-up or brainwashed and basicaly everything "for the greater good" /needles to say they didn't mind those practices and they basically considered their use on people part of that greater good/. <snip>

Small problem with your post: [Scrubbed]
Back on topic, I love the dwagons in this strip. ^^ The pink dwagon is cute with its bubbles, but the red dwagon is just pwnsome. Voooosh!

Scientivore
2007-03-06, 05:38 PM
It just occurred to me that some may find it useful to peruse the board rules (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?f=47&a=1). Some of them are...different.

slowpoke
2007-03-06, 05:51 PM
I love the endless-circle "ROAR" sound effect. The way the crowd backs away from the swooping red dragon is nice too.

The Arkenhammer, in addition to cracking nuts and making pigeons, allows levitation?

Fus.Weapon 1337
2007-03-06, 05:51 PM
Can you say: Malicious?

Querzis
2007-03-06, 05:54 PM
I love it when people answer their own question:

«What make you think we are evil?»
«Well, firstly, good guys usually dont call their dragons to intimidate and/or hurt someone when they are called bad guys.»

SteveMB
2007-03-06, 05:56 PM
I love it when people answer their own question:

«What make you think we are evil?»
«Well, firstly, good guys usually dont call their dragons to intimidate and/or hurt someone when they are called bad guys.»
That may be an accurate answer, but I don't think it's a very prudent one....

Aegeus
2007-03-06, 06:10 PM
Judging from the view you get of the pink dragon, it looks like it's breathing bubbles. I'd say it breathes chewing gum. 6d6 Sugar damage, and persists for one round before the bubble pop.

dakiwiboid
2007-03-06, 06:19 PM
Judging from the view you get of the pink dragon, it looks like it's breathing bubbles. I'd say it breathes chewing gum. 6d6 Sugar damage, and persists for one round before the bubble pop.

Do you think the gwiffons do sugar damage, too? It would seem logical.

Devoured_Dude
2007-03-06, 06:19 PM
If Parson had a double-digit Charisma score (which I doubt), he could just pass it off at more "dumb Earth-boy humor" and change the subject...quickly.

petak
2007-03-06, 06:19 PM
Judging from the view you get of the pink dragon, it looks like it's breathing bubbles. I'd say it breathes chewing gum. 6d6 Sugar damage, and persists for one round before the bubble pop.

And entangling, dont forget entagle

mandarinka
2007-03-06, 06:40 PM
Small problem with your post: [scrubbed].[Scrubbed]

And sorry for being largely off topic - it all started as a real world example of how villains see themselves...

Scientivore
2007-03-06, 07:06 PM
Do you think the gwiffons do sugar damage, too? It would seem logical.

Why not. It would also seem logical that whenever a point of sugar damage heals non-magically, you would accumulate an insulin resistance point in its place, one for one. 1 IR point is erased per month and at 100 IR points you develop diabetes. At that point you have to do a system shock roll whenever you take sugar damage, rolling against the size of the damage with a penalty of your excess IR points beyond 100. Save = intoxication, failure = unconsciousness, critical failure = death. Once a year roll your fortitude versus your excess IR points beyond 100 and find the net result on a table with items like "feel icky", "lose a toe", "become impotent" and "go blind".

Given his diet and body type, I'd give good odds that Lord Hamster is already halfway there from self-inflicted sugar damage...IR points could be his kryptonite in a sustained campaign. Except, you know, that it would be such a mundane way to go...I don't think that it would work, unless maybe at some post-post-post-modern level of irony that is indistinguishable from naive enthusiasm.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-03-06, 07:15 PM
Mandarinka, please refrain from making such long political posts in the future, especially when they're so loosely connected with the subject matter. It really messes with the flow of things around here.


Although I do have to agree with the question- aside from torturing prisoners and the "Arguably Evil" science of Necromancy, has Lord Stanley the Plaid ever actually done anything... EVIL? I never really thought of him as such, instead just thinking of him as another side in the conflict.

Khantalas
2007-03-06, 07:21 PM
Croakamancy! Croakamancy! Not necromancy! The Tool will get mad!

fractal
2007-03-06, 07:24 PM
Although I do have to agree with the question- aside from torturing prisoners and the "Arguably Evil" science of Necromancy, has Lord Stanley the Plaid ever actually done anything... EVIL? I never really thought of him as such, instead just thinking of him as another side in the conflict.
Does employing Gobwins, Dwagons, and Spidews count? Just look at them, they're clearly evil, and they tore that poor cloth golem apart!

Querzis
2007-03-06, 07:34 PM
Although I do have to agree with the question- aside from torturing prisoners and the "Arguably Evil" science of Necromancy, has Lord Stanley the Plaid ever actually done anything... EVIL? I never really thought of him as such, instead just thinking of him as another side in the conflict.

The quest for ultimate power isnt enough? He is ready to kill other people or get his man killed for ultimate power, I dont know how thats supposed to be anything but evil. As a matter of fact, as soon as you hear «Quest for ultimate power» you already know who is the bad guy. Beside, as I already said, he was pretty evil in last comic too.

Cyclone231
2007-03-06, 07:39 PM
So, this is what they call a... "filler comic"? Because it doesn't really seem to get any particular information across.

Jorkens
2007-03-06, 07:54 PM
The quest for ultimate power isnt enough? He is ready to kill other people or get his man killed for ultimate power, I dont know how thats supposed to be anything but evil. As a matter of fact, as soon as you hear «Quest for ultimate power» you already know who is the bad guy. Beside, as I already said, he was pretty evil in last comic too.
Unless it's ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER!!! in which case you're generally assumed to be true neutral...

My current gut feeling is that Erfworld has a similar approach to morality to a lot of TBS games - good and evil are essentially colour schemes, and war / questing for ultimate power is just something that everyone does that doesn't really have moral consequences.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-03-06, 07:54 PM
[Scrubbed]

I hate to go off on this tangent, but I just have to clarify this...

[Scrubbed]

Also, it is entirely possible that every Dwagon breathes fire, reguardless of color.

Khantalas
2007-03-06, 07:55 PM
So, this is what they call a... "filler comic"? Because it doesn't really seem to get any particular information across.

Obviously you don't read Goblins.

This is not a filler comic. This is a comic to be completed with the next update. Only then will it truly make sense.

Caledonian
2007-03-06, 07:55 PM
The names for the D&D alignments give people the wrong idea. "Good" isn't necessarily good or right, and "Evil" isn't necessarily bad or wrong.

It would be far more accurate to say that the alignment spectrum in question is actually "Altruism" vs. "Egotism".

At present, we know nothing about whether either faction lies on that scale. We know only that one faction has a much darker decorating scheme.

Scudboy
2007-03-06, 07:59 PM
So, this is what they call a... "filler comic"? Because it doesn't really seem to get any particular information across.

Well, it gets across that Stanley is not just a cute little spoiled kid, but someone who can be kind of badass if he is so inclined.

Also: Dwagons. They've been getting their fanservice in in the last few strips, but were sorely short on gratuitious dwagon illustrations.:mitd:

Stormthorn
2007-03-06, 07:59 PM
Ok, who knew a guy as short and oblivious as Ol' Stan could be so scary.

Also, Ol' Stan might not be angry. I would have probably done the same thing in his place, but only because i like to force underlings to squirm by daring them to point out the blatantly odvious to a guy on a dragon. So i see it as either A: He is insulted by being called a bad guy OR B: He is relishing the bad guy-ness and Parsons fear just as i would. I could just imagine his voice dripping with sarcasm as he said that last line, but still demanding an answer.

Edit: Bwwwahahahahahahaha!

fractal
2007-03-06, 08:01 PM
I hate to go off on this tangent, but I just have to clarify this...

[Scrubbed]


Aww, just when I was looking forward to getting into a discussion about economic policy.

Roland St. Jude
2007-03-06, 08:01 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: Please kindly check your real world political discussions at the door. You can reclaim them (if you retain your ticket) when you leave. Thank you.

Please see the Rules of Posting located at the top of every forum for more details.

Querzis
2007-03-06, 08:24 PM
Unless it's ULTIMATE ARCANE POWER!!! in which case you're generally assumed to be true neutral...

If someday V become more concerned about power then his/her friends then he/she will become evil but V proved many times that his/her friends are more important for him/her then power so you cant trully say V isnt really on a quest for Ultimate Arcane Power right now. You cant say the same thing about Stanley.

Cyclone231
2007-03-06, 08:29 PM
Obviously you don't read Goblins.

This is not a filler comic. This is a comic to be completed with the next update. Only then will it truly make sense.
I'm sorry, but any comic that spends three quarters of it's page portraying "dwagons are summoned!" is filler.

That's just the way it is. Also:

Then comes the actual scripting. Rob takes his outline and starts filling in the blanks. The scripts are very detailed giving me dialog, page break downs, panel shots, action description, everything a comic artist needs. Every once in a while, Rob will ask if we can expand and add another page or two to give me some room to draw cool things and to give him some room to script. The Dwagon air battle is a perfect example of this.

DomaDoma
2007-03-06, 08:39 PM
Love :smallwink:

The metal-melting kind behind that locked door in Order of the Phoenix?

Reptilius
2007-03-06, 08:44 PM
Hahaha! The look on Stanley's face in panel 3 was hilarious.

happyturtle
2007-03-06, 09:01 PM
So, this is what they call a... "filler comic"? Because it doesn't really seem to get any particular information across.

I thought seeing the Arkenhammer in action was pretty cool information. What it didn't do was advance the action or bring us closer to the battle.

Cyclone231
2007-03-06, 09:05 PM
I thought seeing the Arkenhammer in action was pretty cool information. What it didn't do was advance the action or bring us closer to the battle.
Or give us additional information (we already knew what the Arkenhammer did). Or give us any characterization (omigod Stanley is mean? rly?).

the_tick_rules
2007-03-06, 09:10 PM
wow, hamster sure screwed up.

Wyborn
2007-03-06, 09:18 PM
Stanley's expression in the third panel is so funny I can't stop looking at it. Seriously, you don't get better than those huge soulless black eyes and the little puckered mouth. Hilarious.

Eldritch_Ent
2007-03-06, 09:36 PM
Ahh,y eah- the politics distracted me from commenting on that expression. It's absolutely fantastic. XD The big eyes especially. It just screams "Whoever crosses my path next will be awarded the title of "Arkennail"

Mr Teufel
2007-03-06, 09:44 PM
Maybe it's just the abundance of extralength OOTS strips but the erfworlds strips never seem to get as much story out in one comic. It's a little frusterating because I'm actually starting to get into it now.
Well, Erfworld art is more likely to be energy-intensive than OotS art - may The Giant forgive me.


Never discuss alignment in-game. Never.

QFT. Nobody likes being called the Bad Guy, Parson! Even if they know it's true (more likely in fiction) it can easily be seen as insulting, or challenging their authority. "When you say I'm a bad guy, does that mean you think I'm a bad leader?"


Does employing Gobwins, Dwagons, and Spidews count? Just look at them, they're clearly evil, and they tore that poor cloth golem apart!

In war critters on both sides die. The bear killed the spidew, too, and I'm sure if they'd had the option Ansom's soldiers would strike first - see Jillian's "scouting expedition".

Icewalker
2007-03-06, 10:10 PM
I don't know why almost everyone is automatically assuming that Stanley actually is evil and he just believes wrongly that he is on the side of good. Maybe Stanley is good, he hasn't given us any real reasons to assume otherwise (except the Wanda torturing part). So undead are automatically connected with evil in Dnd and most other sources, but why should that be true here? I think that Stanley actually is (relatively) good.

Tolkien_Freak
2007-03-06, 10:21 PM
Ooooohhhh....
Actiony!

So, obviously Stanley doesn't think he's evil, but is a guy who enjoys having people tortured really good?

Also, if you read the 'ring of roaring' in Panel 6 continuously, you get:
RRRROOOOOOOAAAAAAARRRROOOOOOOAAAAAAARRRROOOOOOOAAA AAAA...
which actually makes a good amount of sense.

And a good amount of people seem to be saying 'dragons' instead of 'dwagons'

KillerCardinal
2007-03-06, 10:23 PM
I don't know why almost everyone is automatically assuming that Stanley actually is evil and he just believes wrongly that he is on the side of good. Maybe Stanley is good, he hasn't given us any real reasons to assume otherwise (except the Wanda torturing part). So undead are automatically connected with evil in Dnd and most other sources, but why should that be true here? I think that Stanley actually is (relatively) good.

For myself, I'm betting that Stanley is actually on the side of good. However, if he isn't, I expect us to be able to figure it out from his speech in the next comic.

NecroPaladin
2007-03-06, 10:30 PM
My respect for Stanley has increased tenfold. Lawful Evil (Or even LG/LN with evil leanings) is by far my favorite alignment, because you can justify your actions. :smallbiggrin:

TRat
2007-03-06, 10:31 PM
Aesthetically, Lord Stanley comes off as evil--dragons and zombies and spiders and so on. But regarding the battle for Gobwin Knoll, he is the defender being invaded and in that sense can be considered good, or at least not the aggressor. We don't know how this war started do we? And while the other side uses Peeps and fuzzy bears, it also uses axes and arrows! That's not so darn cute.

fractal
2007-03-06, 10:53 PM
Aesthetically, Lord Stanley comes off as evil--dragons and zombies and spiders and so on. But regarding the battle for Gobwin Knoll, he is the defender being invaded and in that sense can be considered good, or at least not the aggressor. We don't know how this war started do we? And while the other side uses Peeps and fuzzy bears, it also uses axes and arrows! That's not so darn cute.
Well, my impression was always that Stanley started the war by trying to acquire the other Arkentools, which their current owners were unlikely to want to give up. Wanda certainly implies as much, when she states that Stanley's other 10 cities were lost as a result of his quest.

KillerCardinal
2007-03-06, 11:01 PM
Well, my impression was always that Stanley started the war by trying to acquire the other Arkentools, which their current owners were unlikely to want to give up. Wanda certainly implies as much, when she states that Stanley's other 10 cities were lost as a result of his quest.

Well, that could also be because the others didn't want him to get the Arkentools(whether or not they were the owners) and attacked him. Or it could be that while he was distracted by his quest all those mean guys :smallbiggrin: attacked him(Stanley, distractable, NEVER).

My other question that I need to know before I think he is good or evil is what EXACTLY would all the arkentools do when in his possesion, and what does he plan. So far I remain unconvinced of either side, but lean towards him being good. Partially because Parson would seem to prefer it if he was the bad guy, and at this point, I expect him to be disappointed.

Deuseldorf
2007-03-06, 11:02 PM
What makes you think we're the "bad guys?"

The fact that you're so defensive.

Stormthorn
2007-03-06, 11:48 PM
The fact that you're so defensive.

Or he could be being sarcastic.

Scientivore
2007-03-07, 12:19 AM
I'm sorry, but any comic that spends three quarters of it's page portraying "dwagons are summoned!" is filler.

I thought that it was a play on the obligatory, dazzling transformation/power display in all those Saturday morning merch-commercial-as-cartoons. Of course, those scenes are filler, so I'm not disagreeing that strongly. I think that, as much as they're poking fun at the trope, they're also making use of it to have fun drawing some very pretty pictures.

...Okay, I changed my mind: I am disagreeing that strongly. If we got a photocopy of those scenes every weekend then that would be filler; but just once, those pretty, pretty pictures are content (to me).

TinSoldier
2007-03-07, 12:37 AM
Sometimes you need to tame a dwagon. Sometimes you just need to bust a nut.

I think Stanley just did both.

Himeo
2007-03-07, 12:39 AM
Well, it's pretty obvious. For one, the bad guys are always outnumbered by the good guys. Secondly, the bad guys always have some trick, like croakamancy or an arkentool, which allows them to turn the good guys strength into a weakness. And lastly, the bad guys always win; which we will. Am I mistaken, tool?

<3.

Icewalker
2007-03-07, 01:42 AM
I dunno about his being evil because of his hunt for the Arkentools. My impression of it is that he was searching for more tools, not trying to kill others to take them (yet). Although considering the zeal with which he goes about things, I can see him reaching the point of trying to force them from others, such as the Arkenpliers.

Mutiemoe
2007-03-07, 02:02 AM
Wow! Stanley is booping metal! :smallcool:

Cyclone231
2007-03-07, 02:48 AM
Anyways, this is where a little bit of the old "creative backpedal" is important. What Parson should do is say it's because of the uncroaked, and when Stanley tells him that uncroaked are not evil, say "oh, well, in my world it's unquestionably evil because it requires a pact with the devil/summons negative energy/consumes the person's soul/is ugly."

Maurog
2007-03-07, 03:45 AM
I think all undead of Earth should rise against that stigma.

Jorkens
2007-03-07, 05:19 AM
Well, it's pretty obvious. For one, the bad guys are always outnumbered by the good guys. Secondly, the bad guys always have some trick, like croakamancy or an arkentool, which allows them to turn the good guys strength into a weakness. And lastly, the bad guys always win; which we will. Am I mistaken, tool?
Erm, yes? Isn't the absolute classic heroic story based on the good guys coming through and winning by the skin of their teeth despite facing overwhelming odds? If a story started out with the bad guys outnumbered twenty to one and lead by an incompetent, the story would just be "the good guys walk in and kill everyone and win. The end."

As regards who started the war - we are in something closely resembling a wargame. People in wargames fight wars. It's what they do. Who started it isn't really an issue. If noone starts a war, the whole thing gets boring very quickly. So to me, it doesn't really matter whether Stanley started the war so he could take the Arkentools or whether Ansom took advantage of him being distracted by a quest to sucker punch him - I don't think D&D type alignments are in force here.

Obviously this is subject to change depending on the next comic or two...

blackout
2007-03-07, 05:30 AM
Ahh,y eah- the politics distracted me from commenting on that expression. It's absolutely fantastic. XD The big eyes especially. It just screams "Whoever crosses my path next will be awarded the title of "Arkennail"
Hehehe. The Arkennail. That's a good'un.

Estelindis
2007-03-07, 05:37 AM
What does the pink dragon breathe?Heart:elan:
Best. Post. Ever. :smallbiggrin:

On a more serious note, good strip - it does seem that a lot of the preconceptions that have been coming up on the boards are being challenged in the comic (although not necessarily as a result of their coming up on the boards, it must be added). Still, until it's proven otherwise, I'm on Ansom and Jillian's side. :smallsmile:

factotum
2007-03-07, 06:02 AM
Well, for the evil side there is also the use of torture and the fact that they have no problem in forcing an intelligne being in fight for them against his will, also they have henchmen and lackeys, not self respecting Good Guy would have them.

We know Wanda is prone to torture, but that's the only example of that we've seen. As for forcing an intelligent being to fight for him against his will--where's that happening? If you're talking about the dwagons, it's entirely possible (in fact, probable given the events in this comic) that they serve the wielder of the Arkenhammer willingly--those dwagons which pop up here certainly look as if they're just itching to tear Parson apart.

Henchmen and lackeys are just names for lower-ranking people, and I have no problem whatsoever with seeing a good team having them.

As for reasons why Stanley etc. MIGHT be the good guys--well, as already pointed out, it's usually the good guys who are the heavily outnumbered ones!

Secchi
2007-03-07, 07:08 AM
Good, Bad, I'm the guy with the hammer...

This would be an appropriate line for Stanley.

sin_sephiroth
2007-03-07, 07:33 AM
We know Wanda is prone to torture, but that's the only example of that we've seen. As for forcing an intelligent being to fight for him against his will--where's that happening? If you're talking about the dwagons, it's entirely possible (in fact, probable given the events in this comic) that they serve the wielder of the Arkenhammer willingly--those dwagons which pop up here certainly look as if they're just itching to tear Parson apart.

Henchmen and lackeys are just names for lower-ranking people, and I have no problem whatsoever with seeing a good team having them.

As for reasons why Stanley etc. MIGHT be the good guys--well, as already pointed out, it's usually the good guys who are the heavily outnumbered ones!

Um....the intelligent beng is parson??? Please note that the question marks are dripping with sarcasm

Sampi
2007-03-07, 07:44 AM
What does the pink dragon breathe?

Ever play Bubble Bobble?

battleburn
2007-03-07, 07:44 AM
I don't know why almost everyone is automatically assuming that Stanley actually is evil and he just believes wrongly that he is on the side of good. Maybe Stanley is good, he hasn't given us any real reasons to assume otherwise (except the Wanda torturing part). So undead are automatically connected with evil in Dnd and most other sources, but why should that be true here? I think that Stanley actually is (relatively) good.

Of course Stanley is evil. He doesn't care about the lives or unlives of his troups. Parson will die when he doesn't obey Stanley's every whim.
How is that not evil?

Hart av Srednak
2007-03-07, 08:20 AM
Of course Stanley is evil. He doesn't care about the lives or unlives of his troups. Parson will die when he doesn't obey Stanley's every whim.
How is that not evil?

I guess that Stanley isn't only commander disbanding his troops.

Luvlein
2007-03-07, 08:27 AM
So other commanders may be evil as well. That doesn't change a thing for Stanley. The ultimate proof for Stanley's evilness, however, is that he forced Parson to laugh at his jokes.

Mr Teufel
2007-03-07, 08:38 AM
Erm, yes? Isn't the absolute classic heroic story based on the good guys coming through and winning by the skin of their teeth despite facing overwhelming odds? ...(snip)... Obviously this is subject to change depending on the next comic or two...

Jorkens, your sarcasm detector is on the fritz again...

Though frankly I think Stanley is evil - his diviners are chained to the table, he employs a torturer, and throws other people's lives into battle without caring about it, and is prepared to use force against a neutral party to make them fight on his behalf (Parson).

He's also "Eeeeville" in the sense that his troupes are uncroaked and nasty bitie things like spiders, demons and twolls, and he likes demon faces as an architectural/decorative motif - but I'll agree that they're superficial.

Jorkens
2007-03-07, 09:11 AM
Jorkens, your sarcasm detector is on the fritz again...
Oops...

Though frankly I think Stanley is evil - his diviners are chained to the table, he employs a torturer,
Yeah, those two I'll give you. Although this might well be pretty much standard behaviour in Erfworld. Hell, I think a lot of people would say that torturing information out of prisoners to reduce losses on your side is justified in the real world...

and throws other people's lives into battle without caring about it,
This is kind of par for the course for a military commander, though. We tend to judge them by their overall goals rather than by how much they care for the lives of each individual soldier.

and is prepared to use force against a neutral party to make them fight on his behalf (Parson).
Actually, he specifically asked for someone who wanted to be there and wouldn't be a morale case...

SteveMB
2007-03-07, 09:16 AM
Though frankly I think Stanley is evil - his diviners are chained to the table, he employs a torturer
OK, two points.


and throws other people's lives into battle without caring about it
You mean like (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0021.html): "As soon as the breach opens, I want the Eager Elves to go in first, followed by the Luckless Elves and the Schlemiel Elves."? :smallconfused:

Mr Teufel
2007-03-07, 09:25 AM
I never said Ansom was good.

Jorkens
2007-03-07, 09:28 AM
I never said Ansom was good.
Fair enough. I guess the difference is between 'Stanley is (at least a bit) evil' and 'Gobwin Knob are the Bad Guys.'

SteveMB
2007-03-07, 09:33 AM
I never said Ansom was good.
Fair enough. I suppose it boils down to whether "evil" is being judged by local relative standards or some absolute standard -- in the former case, establishing that it's SOP on both sides to treat your forces as expendable matters; in the latter case, not so much.

Gri
2007-03-07, 09:41 AM
He is a badguy. Look at the arkenhammers weaknesses in the cast page.

SteveMB
2007-03-07, 09:55 AM
He is a badguy. Look at the arkenhammers weaknesses in the cast page.
Perhaps, but Stanley's other personality flaws (stubbornness, poor judgment, etc) would justify that even if he isn't, strictly speaking, a "bad guy".

Calemyr
2007-03-07, 10:04 AM
So, this is what they call a... "filler comic"? Because it doesn't really seem to get any particular information across.

You, sir, haven't apparently *seen* filler before.
This (http://sluggy.com/daily.php?date=061204) is filler.
This (http://www.egscomics.com/Filler/) is filler.
This (http://www.aliendice.com/archive.php?day=20070207) is filler.
This (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-02-18) is filler.
This (http://www.gpf-comics.com/d/19991210.html) is filler.
This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0121.html) is filler.
I could go on, trust me, as filler-less comics are few and far between.
This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0031.html) is simply a strip focused on a single moment rather than the overall plot. An important moment, a defining moment, a moment that will set the stage for moments to come. Not filler.

Seriously, what does this particular strip do?
1) Demonstrates the power of the Arkentools.
2) Demonstrates Stanley does not think himself to be "bad", much less evil.
3) Demonstrates Parson's acceptance of working for the bad guys.
4) Demonstrates the size, powers, and intimidation factor of the dwagons.
5) Demonstrates that Stanley's reaction is not unusual (Bogroll saw it coming).
6) Sets the stage for Stanley to explain his perspective on the conflict.
7) Gives Parson a chance to prove his mettle by standing his ground or outsmarting Stanley in the face of dwagons.
8) Demonstrates that Stanley isn't the total joke he's been painted as - the guy has no small amount of power and can make an impression when he feels like it.

This may not have advanced any of the plots we're so eager to see resolved, like Wanda vs Jillian (just what is their relationship) or the war in general, but it does lay out a lot about two details that are likely to be very critical to the plot: about Stanley's perspective, and about the dwagons he controls.

Filler this is not.

chionophile
2007-03-07, 11:35 AM
You mean like (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0021.html): "As soon as the breach opens, I want the Eager Elves to go in first, followed by the Luckless Elves and the Schlemiel Elves."? :smallconfused:

I think it's interesting that everyone brings up this as an example of Ansom being evil. Someone has to go in first. Why not the people who want to? And the people unlucky enough to get picked. It's a good choice on Ansom's part.

Cyclone231
2007-03-07, 11:59 AM
Though frankly I think Stanley is evil - his diviners are chained to the table, he employs a torturer, and throws other people's lives into battle without caring about it, and is prepared to use force against a neutral party to make them fight on his behalf (Parson). I would make the point that suicide marches, throwing warriors into suicide attacks, disbanding units, and basically sending them to their deaths, is typical behavior in RTSes, and probably shouldn't be taken as a sign of evil

Furthermore, who's to say that the chaining of the diviners is not part of the casting of the spell (either to make the holographs or to see as much as they do)?

And finally, I would say that torturing prisoners is not inherently evil, especially in war conditions. [Scrub, scrub, scrub, scrub the real world political issue.]

hewhosaysfish
2007-03-07, 12:03 PM
From Bogroll's reaction, this conversation has definitely been had before and it hasn't went well for someone.
Stanley is even more touchy about people's judgement of his morality than he is about comments on his height.
Hmm... there's some (semi?)psychological term on the tip of my tongue...

Heliomance
2007-03-07, 12:30 PM
Erm, yes? Isn't the absolute classic heroic story based on the good guys coming through and winning by the skin of their teeth despite facing overwhelming odds? If a story started out with the bad guys outnumbered twenty to one and lead by an incompetent, the story would just be "the good guys walk in and kill everyone and win. The end."

Your sarcasm meter needs a service

As for forcing an intelligent being to fight for him against his will--where's that happening?

Parson

From Bogroll's reaction, this conversation has definitely been had before and it hasn't went well for someone.
Stanley is even more touchy about people's judgement of his morality than he is about comments on his height.
Hmm... there's some (semi?)psychological term on the tip of my tongue...
Inferiority complex

Inceidentally, do you think that dwagon was going ROOOOAAAARR or AAAARRROOOOOOO?



Gah! Ninja'd on two counts!

Clover
2007-03-07, 12:47 PM
It's too late for that now. No, now Jillian must face the unspeakable horror that is...A room with a moose!

OMG!!! Room with a moose! Room with a moose! Sooooo cool!!!

Friv
2007-03-07, 02:48 PM
Another hint that Stanley is a "bad guy", even if he doesn't believe it.

"Even if the City falls, I can get out." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0006.html)

The guy doesn't much seem to care about anyone but himself.

spite48
2007-03-07, 03:11 PM
Air Freshener.

That's got to be my favorite response for the Pink Dragon breath.

I was thinking perfume in such concentration that it makes breathing difficult.

SteveMB
2007-03-07, 03:13 PM
Another hint that Stanley is a "bad guy", even if he doesn't believe it.

"Even if the City falls, I can get out." (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0006.html)

The guy doesn't much seem to care about anyone but himself.
There are two different meanings of "bad guy" that apply here -- being on the "bad" side and being a "bad" individual.

Being a cowardly weasel (as demonstrated by planning to slip away and save your own skin if your side is defeated) is evidence for the latter, but not the former.

DCR
2007-03-07, 04:22 PM
That's got to be my favorite response for the Pink Dragon breath.

I was thinking perfume in such concentration that it makes breathing difficult.

Maybe pink cleans up after yellow....

EndgamerAzari
2007-03-07, 04:58 PM
You know, one of the earlier "Stanley-is-evil" claims is that he's on a quest for the ultimate power in the universe. I know he seems like a selfish jerk, but who's to say he'd use it for evil? He seems like the kinda guy who'd do it just so he could brag about it.

Dragor
2007-03-07, 05:07 PM
I'm not going to make any homosexual jokes about the pink dwagon.

And on the debate whether Stanley's evil... well, come on! He has a skull on his desk! That must mean something... *stamps 'Evil Villain' papers*

Cyclone231
2007-03-07, 05:30 PM
And on the debate whether Stanley's evil... well, come on! He has a skull on his desk! That must mean something...
Maybe it's the skull of his late father, and the action of having it on his desk is no more inherently evil than if it was an urn?

Electric_Monkey
2007-03-07, 05:45 PM
You, sir, haven't apparently *seen* filler before.
This (http://sluggy.com/daily.php?date=061204) is filler.
This (http://www.egscomics.com/Filler/) is filler.
This (http://www.aliendice.com/archive.php?day=20070207) is filler.
This (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2007-02-18) is filler.
This (http://www.gpf-comics.com/d/19991210.html) is filler.
This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0121.html) is filler.
I could go on, trust me, as filler-less comics are few and far between.
This (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/erf0031.html) is simply a strip focused on a single moment rather than the overall plot. An important moment, a defining moment, a moment that will set the stage for moments to come. Not filler.

Seriously, what does this particular strip do?
1) Demonstrates the power of the Arkentools.
2) Demonstrates Stanley does not think himself to be "bad", much less evil.
3) Demonstrates Parson's acceptance of working for the bad guys.
4) Demonstrates the size, powers, and intimidation factor of the dwagons.
5) Demonstrates that Stanley's reaction is not unusual (Bogroll saw it coming).
6) Sets the stage for Stanley to explain his perspective on the conflict.
7) Gives Parson a chance to prove his mettle by standing his ground or outsmarting Stanley in the face of dwagons.
8) Demonstrates that Stanley isn't the total joke he's been painted as - the guy has no small amount of power and can make an impression when he feels like it.

This may not have advanced any of the plots we're so eager to see resolved, like Wanda vs Jillian (just what is their relationship) or the war in general, but it does lay out a lot about two details that are likely to be very critical to the plot: about Stanley's perspective, and about the dwagons he controls.

Filler this is not.

You forgot another point - this strip closes the debate on whether or not Gobwin Knob is in Parson's game.

chionophile
2007-03-07, 06:26 PM
I thought that debate was closed already. It's clearly not his game; it's just that Stanley is in a strategic situation identical to the one Parson was planning.

Luvlein
2007-03-07, 07:27 PM
And finally, I would say that torturing prisoners is not inherently evil, especially in war conditions.
If torture isn't evil, nothing is. I suspect you would defend just anything that Stanley could possibly do.

Cyclone231
2007-03-07, 08:03 PM
If torture isn't evil, nothing is.
Oh, so if using violence or threat of violence to coerce information that could save lives isn't evil, say, rape is not evil either? Or murder?

Again, reason is the key here. Torturing people for fun without their permission = evil. Killing people for fun without their permission = evil. Having sex with people for fun without their permission = evil.

If you kill a man so that you can stop the deaths of thousands of others, is that bad? If you torture a man so that you can stop the deaths of thousands of others, is that bad?

Actions are not inherently evil, it is the context of these actions. Killing is not inherently immoral (for example, killing in self defense, killing enemy combatants in a war, et cetera), that's why we have the word murder. Having sex is not inherently immoral, that's why we have the word rape.

Kanthalion
2007-03-07, 08:49 PM
snip... Actions are not inherently evil, it is the context of these actions. ...snip

Although I agree with you, I acknowledge that people with different systems of morality will vehemently disagree with you.

TinSoldier
2007-03-07, 09:26 PM
Inceidentally, do you think that dwagon was going ROOOOAAAARR or AAAARRROOOOOOO?I thought it was AAAARRROOOOOOO.

Querzis
2007-03-07, 09:50 PM
Actions are not inherently evil, it is the context of these actions.

No but many actions cant be good. Killing, for example, can be justified so that its not really evil but it cant be good, it can be neutral at best just like stealing and other stuff like that. So the people who say: «if someone kill bad guys then he is a good guys» really make me laugh (I'm not talking about you but I heard that line often.) And by the way, saying «Even if the city falls, I can get out» sounds evil to me. Thats not cowardice, its just a total lack of compassion for his own minions.

But as far as I'm concerned, torture is evil no matter how you look at it. You can extract information without using pain, its just easier and faster that way. If someone wont talk, it could mean that he is ready to die with the information or that he dont know anything so he woudnt talk even with torture anyway.

pclips
2007-03-07, 10:16 PM
I thought it was AAAARRROOOOOOO.

Some of them were going ROOAARR! and some of them were going ARROOO!

One was going OAR! But that one's always been a little slow.

TinSoldier
2007-03-07, 10:47 PM
Some of them were going ROOAARR! and some of them were going ARROOO!

One was going OAR! But that one's always been a little slow.Dude, you had me at Cole's Law! I think I'm going to have an aneurysm!

Mr Teufel
2007-03-07, 10:55 PM
Torture is not only evil, it is ineffective at providing reliable information. Jack Bauer is not a good guy.

Wyborn
2007-03-07, 11:28 PM
If you kill a man so that you can stop the deaths of thousands of others, is that bad? If you torture a man so that you can stop the deaths of thousands of others, is that bad?

In fulfilling Godwin's Law, didn't you just lose the debate?:smallwink:

That said, I'm not a moral relativist - for me, torture is always wrong, and always reprehensible, but that may not be the case in whatever objective universe Erfworld is.

...HOLY CRAP! You ninja'd me as I was quoting you!

Cyclone231
2007-03-07, 11:40 PM
In fulfilling Godwin's Law, didn't you just lose the debate?:smallwink:
I did not fulfill Godwin's law in the unedited version, since Godwin's Law is...

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.[Emphasis Added
There was no comparison.

Wyborn
2007-03-07, 11:49 PM
Granted, there was no direct comparison, but the fact that you brought up the situation in a context that made it analogous to this situation....I could have paraphrased you as saying "Would Stanley be evil if he were torturing people to [Godwinism]" and lost none of the essential meaning.

Cancermage
2007-03-08, 02:59 AM
Stanley finally showing how he got one of the Arkentools :biggrin:

Ave
2007-03-08, 05:28 AM
Some of them were going ROOAARR! and some of them were going ARROOO!

One was going OAR! But that one's always been a little slow.

I KNEW IT!
I wanted to post it, but i was just too slow :)

TheAnimal
2007-03-08, 08:07 AM
What does the pink dragon breathe?

chewing gum bubbles?

Zienth
2007-03-08, 07:34 PM
Inceidentally, do you think that dwagon was going ROOOOAAAARR or AAAARRROOOOOOO?


Clearly it's OOOAAAAARRRRRRR!

Must be "Roar like a Pirate Day"!

Zienth

Ultimatum479
2007-03-10, 10:55 AM
At least one of them definitely is screaming OAR, yes, if I recall correctly from the capture of Jill (too lazy to check).

I think every panel from the third onwards in this strip is deserving of a place in the Blowing Up Erfworld thread.

Oh, and on the subject of the good-ness or bad-ness of Stanley...I'm still going with Stanley enjoying being called a "bad guy", that last line dripping with sarcasm, but whatever. Whether or not Gobwin Knob actually is on the side of "evil" in game terms should be, since we're talking about in-game terms of alignment, decided by the actual game mechanics. Has anyone ever heard of a turn-based strategy game in which the good guys don't get to go first? Cuz I haven't. As we know, when Ansom ends turn, it's night-time and everyone rests until the next day. That means that Gobwin Knob's turn comes first in the day. That would make them good, if I'm not mistaken. Or at least the protagonists.

SteveMB
2007-03-10, 11:24 AM
Has anyone ever heard of a turn-based strategy game in which the good guys don't get to go first? I haven't noticed that pattern; maybe it's because it seems more typical to me for the question of one side being &quot;good guys&quot; to be irrelevant; they're just two groups out for the same real estate or whatever (a la Emperor Charles V's comment &quot;My cousin Francis [I of France] and I are in complete agreement: he wants Vienna, and so do I.&quot;)

OOTS_Rules.
2007-03-10, 03:32 PM
I always thought that crapping was just something extra that the Yellow Dwagon did to Bogroll, but it appears to be the dwagon's special weapon.

TheAnimal
2007-03-13, 04:08 PM
One was going OAR! But that one's always been a little slow.
:smallbiggrin: This one almost made me fall off my chair!