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View Full Version : D&D 3.x Class Iaijutsu Master 3.5 Base Class. PEACH.



Tempestfury
2014-08-26, 07:15 AM
Iaijutsu. The art of drawing and striking in one smooth motion. It is said that a master of Iaijutsu can strike so fast, that their blade has returned to its sheath by the time you realize youíve been struck. Fast, efficient, and deadly. A master of Iaijutsu is a force to be wary off.

Playing a master of Iaijutsu is rather difficult in D&D 3.5. 3.0, does have Oriental Adventures, which has the infamous Iaijutsu Focus skill, which if you hit a flat-footed opponent after drawing a weapon, allows you to perform extra damage. It also has a prestige class, Iaijutsu Master, which is all about improving the Iaijutsu skill for even more damage, among other things. However, that is 3.0, not 3.5, and though the concept was good, the Iaijutsu fighters had one serious flaw. Sheathing a weapon requires a move action, and there is no way to speed this up. Of course, you can sheathe your weapon and move at the same time, but it does limit you to using a single, powerful strike, once per round. Which, compared to martial adepts or just, THF chargers, feels a little... weak.

This of course, is where homebrew comes in. I am going to take the Iaijutsu Master and update to 3.5 by turning it into a full, 20 level base class, complete with an class feature each and every level. It more than likely isnít exactly necessary to take the Iaijutsu Master ot such an extent, but I want to do so, and if you donít want to take the full 20 levels in it... well, thatís what multiclassing is for, isnít it? Iím aiming to have the Iaijutsu Master to be a strong Tier 4 class. Mainly focused on melee, with the emphasis on Charisma helping it have a role as a party face, or a secondary one at least.

Iaijutsu Master

MAKING AN IAIJUTSU MASTER
Attributes: Charisma is the most important attribute by far. Not only is it the attribute that Iaijutsu focused is scaled on, but several class features dependant on it. Dexterity and Constitution are both important secondary attributes, improving defence, health and saves.
Alignment: Being mainly a Samurai technique, the vast majority of Iaijutsu Masters are Lawful in alignment. However there are few that are neutral, and fewer still that are Chaotic.
Starting age: As a Paladin
Staring gold As a Paladin.

Class Skills
The Zen Bladeís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex)
Skill Points at first level: (4 + Int Modifier)x4
Skill Points at each additional level: 4 + Int Modifier.
Hit Die: d8



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st
+1

+0
+2

+2Iaijutsu Training, Master Finesse


2nd
+2

+0
+3

+3Kiai, Draw, strike, sheath


3rd
+3

+1
+3

+3Kiai Strike


4th
+4

+1
+4

+4Bonus Feat


5th
+5

+1
+4

+4Lightning Blade


6th
+6/+1

+2
+5

+5Focused Strike


7th
+7/+2

+2
+5

+5Blurred Blade


8th
+8/+3

+2
+6

+6Masterís Challenge, Bonus Feat


9th
+9/+4

+3
+6

+6Strike from the Void


10th
+10/+5

+3
+7

+7Shield of Blades


11th
+11/+6/+1

+3
+7

+7One Strike, Two Cuts


12th
+12/+7/+2

+4
+8

+8Bonus Feat, Superior Finesse


13th
+13/+8/+3

+4
+8

+8Kiaiís Mobility


14th
+14/+9/+4

+4
+9

+9Grace of Kiai


15th
+15/+10/+5

+5
+9

+9Disruptive Strike


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1

+5
+10

+10One Strike, Three Cuts, Bonus Feat


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2

+5
+10

+10Battlefield Devastation


18th
18/+13/+8/+3

+6
+11

+11Challenge the World


19th
19/+14/+9/+4

+6
+11

+11Strike with No Thought


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5

+6
+12

+12Body-Spirit Unity, Bonus Feat



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Iaijutsu Master.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Iaijutsu Master are proficient with all simple weapons, and all one-handed swords. They are proficient with light and medium armour.
Special: The Iaijutsu Master Class Features only apply when wielding a one-handed sword in one hand, and nothing in the other hand.

Iaijutsu Training
The Iaijutsu Master, is of course, well versed in the art of Iaijutsu, more so than most. Every level taken as an Iaijutsu Master puts a skill point into the Iaijutsu Focus skill. If this class is taken at level one, this free skill point is x4.

Master Finesse
Speed and agility is more important to an Iaijutsu Master than raw strength. They get the Weapon Finesse feat for free, and can finesse any one-handed sword when holding nothing in their other hand.

Draw, strike, sheath
The art if Iaijutsu requires a quick draw to strike before returning the sword to its sheath. At level 2, the Iaijutsu Master gets Quick Draw as a bonus feat, and has the ability to sheathe a single one-handed sword as a swift action.

Kiai
Kiai, the representation of the fighting spirit. It is said that the stronger your Kiai, the stronger your blows will become when you call upon it. The Iaijutsu Master is an expert of calling on the power of their Kiai in various ways, although their spirit can only supply them with so much strength. After reaching level 2, at the start of each day, a Iaijutsu Master gains a number of Kiai points equal to their class level plus their Charisma modifier. Their Kiai goes up or down throughout the day, but cannot go higher than their class level plus their Charisma modifier. If an Iaijutsu Master successfully defeats an enemy in combat, they regain Kiai equal to 1/2 their Charisma modifier or 1/2 their class level, whichever is higher

Kiaiís Power
At level 3, when you still have 1 point of Kiai remaining, you may add your Charisma modifier as a bonus to your AC, as well as your damage rolls. In addition, your sword is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of damage reduction. At level 8, your Kiai becomes attuned to your alignment, making your sword be treated as either Lawful or Chaotic. Neutral Iaijutsu Masterís chose one. At level 12, you Kiai hardens your weapon, allowing it to be treated as adamantine for the purpose of damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

The bonus to AC only applies when wearing no armour or light armour. Wearing medium armour halves the bonus to AC, whilst wearing heavy armour completely negates it.

Bonus Feats
At 4th level, and every four levels after that, a Iaijutsu Master gains a bonus feat in addition to those they obtain by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, or Skill Focus (Iaijutsu Focus). A Iaijutsu Master must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a Iaijutsu Master is considered to have a fighter level equal to their Iaijutsu Master level -4

Lightning Blade
As an Iaijutsu Master becomes more experienced, their speed with the blade translate into a speed of the body. At 5th level, as long as the Iaijutsu Master has at least 1 point of Kiai, they add their Charisma modifier as a bonus to their Initiative, as well as their Dexterity modifier. This only applies when wearing no armour or light armour. Wearing medium armour halves the bonus to Initiative, whilst wearing heavy armour completely negates it.

Focused Strike
Upon reaching level 6, the Iaijutsu Master has learned how to use his Kiai to open his opponent up for his devastating strikes. By spending 1 point of Kiai as a swift action, they can treat an enemy as flat-footed until the end of the Iaijutsu Masterís turn, even if they do not lose their dexterity bonus to their AC.

At 12th level, the Iaijutsu Master ability to use his Kiai to make a focused, devastating strike improves. They no longer need to spend Kiai to treat an enemy as flat-footed for a swift action. They gain the ability to spend 1 point of Kiai as a free action to treat an enemy as flat-footed.

Blurred Blade
At level 7, the Iaijutsu Master speed is increasing significantly, bolstered by their Kiai. As long as they have 1 Kiai remaining, they may sheathe their weapon as a free action. Additionally, they gain Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat. If they already have Combat Reflexes, they may gain any fighter bonus feat they meet the prerequisites for. Whenever they would make attack of opportunity, they may spend 1 Kiai, to make enemy treated as flat-footed against that attack.

Masterís Challenge
Once they have reached level 8, the Iaijutsu Master begins to learn how to use their Kiai to fight against the fighting spirits of their enemy. By spending 2 points of Kiai as a free action, an Iaijutsu Master can challenge an opponent. They can either ignore the challenge, or respond to it. You can only challenge one opponent at a time, and can only challenge an opponent once per encounter.

If they ignore it, make a Concentration roll vs 10+ their ECL. If you succeed, you gain an attack bonus equal to your charisma modifier against your opponent. You can end this effect prematurely, in order to multiply the bonus attack granted by this class feature, by an amount equal to your Iaijutsu Master level/2 for one round.

If they respond to a challenge, make a Concentration roll vs their Intimidate or their Concentration, their choice. The winner gains a bonus to attack and damage rolls against the loser equal to your Charisma modifier, and the loser takes a penalty on all attack and damage rolls equal to half your Charisma modifier. If you won, you can end the effect prematurely to get the same effects as if they ignored the challenge, with the bonus damage multiplied by your Iaijutsu Master level/4.

Strike from the Void
The Iaijutsu Masterís strength of spirit keeps on increasing, allowing his blows to become even stronger. After reaching level 9, the Iaijutsu Master can spend 1 point of Kiai in order to add their charisma modifier to each 2 dice of damage from Iaijutsu Focus for one round.

The damage from Strike to the Void can be doubled endlessly, as long as you have the Kiai to spend. However, each time you do so, the Kiai costs four times the amount of previous. For example, adding the charisma modifier to each die of damage costs an additional 4 Kiai, for a total of 5. Raising it to a total of 2xCHA for each die of damage costs an additional 8 Kiai, for a total of 13. And so on and so forth.

Shield of Blades
The Iaijutsu Masterís speed and reflexes are always increasing, and at level 10, they unlock a new ability to add to their arsenal. Whenever they are attacked by a non-spell attack, they may spend 2 Kiai points to make an opposing attack roll or Iaijutsu Focus roll. If their rolling is higher, they may negate the attack. By spending an additional 2 Kiai points, they may also provoke an attack of opportunity from the attacker if they successfully negate the attack.

Superior Finesse
At level 12, the Iaijutsu Masterís skill with the blade and usage of Kiai have advanced to a point where he can use his Kiai to enhance the accuracy of his strikes. If you have at least 2 point of Kiai remaining, you can may instead add your dexterity modifier to attack rolls with Finessable weapons instead of replacing Strength, and now may add 1/2 of your dexterity modifier as a bonus to damage.

In addition, the Iaijutsu Master can use his Kiai for bursts of insights that allow him to strike past even the strongest of armour to drive his sword home. By spending 2 Kiai as a swift action, the Iaijutsu Master can make all of his attacks against 1 enemy against their Touch AC for one round. At level 17, this cost is reduced to 1, or they can spend 2 Kiai as a free action to have the same effect.

Kiaiís mobility
As they reach level 13, the Iaijutsu Masterís understanding of Kiai and its usage in augmenting his abilities, as well as his natural speed are reaching new heights. As long as the Iaijutsu Master has at least 2 points of Kiai remaining, the Iaijutsu Masterís base speed increases by 10ft, and they gain an extra 5ft in reach.

In addition, as a swift action the Iaijutsu Master may spend Kiai to move a distance equal to 10ft per point of Kiai spent, up to a total of their speed. At level 18, you may instead move 20ft per point of Kiai spent, or as a free action move 10ft equal to your Kiai spent.

Grace of Kiai
At level 14, an Iaijutsu Masterís understand of his fighting spirit allows him to use it in new, graceful ways that further his abilities. As long as the Iaijutsu Master has at least 2 points of Kiai remaining, he may add his Charisma modifier to his saves. This does not stack with ability that grant Charisma to all saves, but does stack with other ability to saves, or abilities that grant Charisma to a specific save

In addition, the power of the Iaijutsu Masterís Strike from the Void increases. Now, they add their charisma modifier for each die of damage of Iaijutsu Master for 1 Kiai, and can double the damage dealt from there. Or, you can pay double the cost in order to extend the effect to last for a number of rounds equal to half their Charisma modifier.

Disruptive Strike
The Iaijutsu Masterís strength of Kiai at level 15 allows them to see the world in new ways, to see the threads of magic and life force, and with enough concentration, are able to cutting through them directly to deal devastating blows. By spending 4 points of Kiai, an Iaijutsu Master may apply one of the three following effects to their next strike that successfully hits:

The Iaijutsu Master may make a dispelling check against any ongoing effect against the target he struck, this include striking a Wall spell and trying to dispel it. The Iaijutsu Master uses his Concentration check in place of a Caster Level check for this effect.

The Iaijutsu Master automatically staggers the opponent he hits for a number of rounds equal to half his charisma modifier. The Iaijutsu Master can instead opt to attempt to stun the opponent for a single round. The opponent can make a Fortitude saving throw against this, with the DC being equal to 10+1/2 class level+Cha. Enemies immune to stun are still effected by this, but gain a +4 bonus to resist.

Though perceiving the flow of life around them, the Iaijutsu Master can strike cleanly, ignoring effects that would otherwise dissuade him. By making an concentration check vs the AC of the enemy, they may ignore any miss-chance the enemy has and ignore damage reduction succeed in their check.

Battlefield Devastation
As they begin to reach towards the perfection of their art, an Iaijutsu Master seeks to do more than simply slay enemies, but to completely devastate the field. Upon reaching level 17, as long as the Iaijutsu Master has 3 points of Kiai remaining, they add another 20ft to their base speed and 5ft to their reach. By spending 3 points of Kiai, an Iaijutsu Master may extend his reach so that it equals their dexterity score for one round.

Additionally, the Iaijutsu Masterís ambition in the battlefield allows them to further fuel the Kiai. Whenever the Iaijutsu Master threatens with a critical hit, they may regain an amount of Kiai equal to 1/4 of their class level. Because of the increased emphasis on devastating strikes, the swords that the Iaijutsu Master is wielding has their critical range and critical modifier increased by 1.

Challenge the World
Growing more experienced in battle, and more confidant in their powers. Level 18 Iaijutsu Masterís begin to believe they can take on the world. They can now use the Masterí Challenge class feature on each enemy within 60ft, though the cost is doubled if they use it in this way. The cost for challenging only one enemy is reduced by 1.

In addition, the Iaijutsu Masterís confidence is enough that their Kiai itself can strike at enemies. As long as the Iaijutsu Master has 3 points of Kiai remaining, at the end of the round, each enemy within reach takes damage equal to the damage added by the Iaijutsu Focus. This damage can include Strike From the Void if it is in effect.

Strike with no Thought
The Iaijutsu Masterís ability to strike has reached a point that they no longer have to think in order to strike. At level 19, if an Iaijutsu Master begins combat within a range of opponent equal to her base speed+meele range, they gain a free surprise round. Even if the enemies are away of their presence, or even during a surprise round of their own. During this surprise round, an Iaijutsu Master must make an attack with a one-handed sword against an enemy or forfeit the surprise round

As well as this ability, the Iaijutsu Master can now unleash bursts of amazing speed, allowing them to perform feats that are impossible for a lesser man. By spending 8 points of Kiai, they may make an extra standard or move action this turn, by spending 16 points of Kiai, they may instead make an extra full-round action.

Body-Spirit Unity
At level 20, the Iaijutsu Master has reached the pinnacle of spiritual and physical ability, and is able to use his body and spirit to argument the others in ways previously thought impossible. All costs for Kiai are reduced by 1. Additionally, you gain the Epic Feat Improved Iaijutsu Focus (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20030902a), even if you donít meet the prerequisites.

Finally, whenever you apply your charisma modifier to a roll, you may also add your dexterity modifier as well, and whenever you apply your dexterity modifier to a roll, you may also add your charisma modifier as well. If you are only adding a fraction of an ability modifier to a roll, still add the other ability modifier, but it too is affected by the fraction. You can only add the extra ability modifier once with this effect.

Kazyan
2014-08-26, 02:01 PM
Let's see now...

I generally like the progression of the Iaijutsu Master's talents, from learning the basics to becoming a grandmaster. It's a smooth progression. It scales pretty well, but there are a few things to point out.

One, Greater Focused Strike and Improved Focused Strike are vicious if you have Power Attack. Hitting flat-footed touch AC means that basically only deflection and insight bonuses will apply and you'll never miss except on a 1. If this was intentional--it's level 17, after all--then carry on, but I wanted to point it out because being able to basically ignore the concept of AC is a big deal.

Two, Greater Blurred Blade should be clearer about what happens to your reach. It seems intended that reach becomes 5' x Dexterity modifier, but it just says Dexterity modifier. If that's not what you meant, please clear it up. Is it Dexterity modifier expressed in feet and rounded up to the nearest increment of 5'?

Third, Body-Spirit Unity should be clear about what happens if you can already apply both Dexterity and Charisma modifiers to something. As-written, since you can apply Charisma and Dexterity to your Iaijutsu dice at this level, this ability lets you apply them both again. If this is intentional, make a note of it.

Fourth--and this is the most important--out of the Iaijutsu Master's 21 class abilities, 11 over them are X stat to Y bonus. While this makes for a simpler character, X to Y is pretty easy to exploit and flat numerical bonuses are less interesting as class features than ones that do something unique. I mean, it works, but I think you can do better. It also makes for a character that is heavily dependent on their ability score rolls and/or point buy to determine their functionality, moreso than basically any official class.

Also, you skipped over "Zen Blade" in your class skill description.

You've got these issues, but it's still fairly good.

Tempestfury
2014-08-26, 02:25 PM
Hmmmm... alright, thanks for the feedback. I do understand your point about the possibly abusing of the Iaijutsu Master. Specifically with Power-Attack and X Stat to Y Bonus. The X Stat to Y Bonus focus, was a bit of a development from the Iaijutsu Master PrC, reducing MAD by allowing you to do well with only two stats. Cha and Dex, but your right in that I likely went to far with it, and if I had ideas, I would most likely change or modify some of them.

Spirit Shield was taken directly from the PrC, as was Lighting Blade and Strike from the Void... Spiritual Strike... well, flat-damage to your attacks is good, but the Iaijutsu Master is all about making those Iaijutsu Strikes, so you might not need it as much as others do... though it'll help you when at lower levels and not always able to make an Iaijutsu strike... Spiritual Alacrity can just flat-out go. Spiritual Grace I feel lit fits the Iaijutsu Master, but Swift Body... I suppose that could also be dropped...

Okay. Swift Body at level 15, Spiritual Alacrity at level 10, and possibly Spiritual Strike at level 3... those can be dropped, but the question is, what do I replace them with?

As for Focused Strike (And Blurred Blade?), I'm gonna add that it can only be used when your wielding a one-handed sword, and have nothing in the other hand... that should reduce some of the potential abuse, though I think striking for touch & flat-footed might be a bit too much, I'm not sure how to do the accuracy without being a flat bonus to attack...

somebody27else
2014-08-26, 03:31 PM
Any particular reason why you use blue as a default color? Just wondering. :smallsmile:

Tempestfury
2014-08-26, 03:40 PM
Because its my second fav colour and yellow is very hard to rea

Amechra
2014-08-26, 06:04 PM
For what it's worth, that particular blue is also pretty hard for me to read; I tend to skip most of your posts because the color they are posted in hurts (damn my defective senses!)

Any way I could convince you to adopt a darker or less intense blue?

Like a nice Dark Blue, Dark Slate Blue, Midnight Blue, Navy, or Steel Blue? And you could go for Gold if you want yellow (though I don't suggest it.)

If not, that's OK.

But anyway, the class in question!

First of all, you need to mark everything as being Ex, Su, or Sp. This is something important.

Iaijutsu Training
Understandable, though kinda inelegant. I'd personally prefer allowing you to substitute Class Level + 1/2 Levels in other Classes + 3 for your Iaijutsu Focus ranks for all purposes, but that's just me.

Master Finesse
'Sword' is kinda vague; why not specify 'weapons in the Sword weapon group'? That way, you can head off arguments before they begin (katanas are, after all, just Masterwork Bastard Swords).

Spirit Shield
Why halve it, instead of just removing it entirely? I see you mention that you took inspiration from the Worldrender, but why did you choose to go this route? It results in people going for heavily armored Iaijatsu Masters, because the +8 to my AC I get from Full Plate is usually going to be greater than half of my Charisma modifier.

Draw, strike, sheath
Fair enough; you kinda need this to not use a Gnomish Quickrazor.

Spirit Strike
The halving on this one is just kinda awkward; I know I would take the Heavy Armor most times, simply because Iajatsu Focus usually supplies you with plenty of damage, and (for an example, Cha 16 and Splint Mail; I get +3 to damage and AC while I don't wear the Splint Mail, and +1 ~ +2 to damage and +7-+8 to AC with the Splint Mail. I know which one I'd pick. I'd go without the armor if the choice was +3 to damage and AC or +6 to AC).

Bonus Feats
Pretty bog-standard. No problems here.

Lightning Blade
This is pretty nice; free initiative is lovely. I'm kinda wondering why you don't also have this one halving in Heavy Armor (for consistency), but I'm glad you don't.

Focused Strike
Ah, this one makes sure you can use the skill that powers the class. Some creatures are, however, immune to being Flat-Footed, so I think it would be a bit clearer (rules-wise) if Focused Strike allowed you to make a Concentration check to use Iaijutsu Focus regardless of whether or not your target's Flat-Footed.

Blurred Blade
This is just fine, though they might have already picked up Combat Reflexes; just let them take a different feat the qualify for if that's the case.

Strike from the void
The high-octane damage dealer from the original; narsty stuff. I will just say that this is probably broken for this particular rendition of the class; the original Iaijutsu Master was balanced around the idea that you're probably only getting one or two attacks with Iaijutsu Focus off per round. Your class can get Iaijutsu Damage on every melee attack they make. Maybe introduce Strike From The Void earlier, and have it give a scaling damage bonus (+1 per die at level X, +2 per die at level Y, +3 per die at level Z, etcetera, etcetera)?

I'm just not comfortable with the fact that you'll be essentially getting Charisma to damage up to 9 times. On every melee attack you make. With full attacks.

Spiritual Alacrity
Reasonable.

One Strike, Two Cuts
This does not do what you think it does. It, in fact, does not do anything. The language you are looking for is "Whenever an Iaijutsu Master of at least 11th level makes an attack as part of a Standard Action, they may make a second attack at their full BAB." That'll cover everything, including Strikes.

Improved Focused Strike
That 'successfully' should be 'successful'. Also, why not just say that they may now use Iaijutsu Focus regardless of whether their target is Flat-Footed or not? Also, at this point, your Concentration check pretty much always succeeds. Just saying.

Improved Blurred Blade
Groovy.

Spiritual Grace
Pretty nifty.

Swift Body
And there you go, pumping your Concentration check even higher. Seriously, your already going to have a +20-ish bonus;anything else is gravy.

One Strike, Three Cuts
See what I said about One Strike, Two Cuts; in addition, you really should think of putting some penalties on the attack; a -2 to your attack roll for the rest of the round is pretty standard. With the right Strikes, you can get off 4 attacks as a standard action at this point; which beats out your puny Full Attacks due to all of those attacks being likely to hit.

Greater Focused Strike
This ability is kinda lame; all it does is save you a bit of rolling (your bonus on your Concentration checks is probably higher than your opponent's AC, and you don't autofail skill checks for rolling a 1), as well as letting you roll to ignore a piddly amount of DR (seriously, you're throwing out more than 100 damage per attack at this point; DR is, at best, a slight annoyance to you.)

Greater Blurred Blade
Rounded up to what? The nearest multiple of 5? The nearest multiple of 10? The nearest whole number? Otherwise, it's fine.

Strike With No Thought
I like it.

Body-Spirit Unity
This is just a big numbers hike; a bit boring if you ask me.

Thoughts

This guy is... how do I say this... not very well put together. Thanks to the nature of the beast, you are already rolling more than practically anyone else at the table (Iaijutsu Focus adds an extra roll to your attack resolution); Focused Strike and it's upgrades basically just wastes your time and holds up the flow.

Why? Skill Bonuses ramp up much faster than AC does; in fact, they are the bonus that gets really high really quickly. You should be auto-succeeding on the Concentration check for Focused Strike as soon as you get the class feature!

I'd suggest having Focused Strike and its upgrades cost an action to use. Maybe something like:


Focused Strike: At 6th level, an Iaijutsu Master may spend a Swift action to allow them to use Iaijutsu Focus on their next attack, regardless of whether or not their target is Flat-Footed. At 12th level, they may do so as a free action.

Improved Focused Strike: At 12th level, an Iaijutsu Master may spend a Swift action to make their next melee attack a melee touch attack. At 17th level, tehy may do so as a free action.

That way, you aren't just rolling a check that you are almost certainly going to succeed.

On top of that, the only class features you've got that don't just add numbers are Focused Strike and Friends, One Strike, Two/Three Cuts, and Strike With No Thought. Everything else either adds bigger numbers, or gives you a bonus feat. Admittedly, some of them give you really big numbers... but you don't have cool options.

Your default response to everything is "I roll to attack. I roll Iaijutsu Focus. Woo." Even just an ability that worked like my Heart of the Razor (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?338011-Step-and-CUT!-Feats-PEACH&p=17221618#post17221618) feat, letting you use Ambush Feats with your Iaijutsu Focus, would do a lot to switch-up your in-combat actions.

Tempestfury
2014-08-26, 06:35 PM
Firstly, thanks for looking at this. I'm a fan of your work, especially the feats your linked and your Monstrous Armiger class. Secondly, thank you very much for helping my correcting the wording for my abilities. I feel that wording is always something I struggle with when it comes to my homebrew (especially as D&D is a rather... complicated game)

Third, thanks for the honest review on my class... and yes, I am already starting to see that whilst I might of had good intentions for this class (taking an old 3.0 fighting style and renewing it for 3.5), I failed rather horribly in its execution, with two regards especially. First one is something that both you and Kazyan both highlighted. That the vast majority of the the class is simply X Stat to Y Bonus/Moar Numbers. Secondly, I failed to create any engaging options for the Iaijutsu Master, beyond 'Attack+Iaijutsu Focus', as you yourself pointed out. Not only does it not really encourage people to play as an Iaijutsu Master, but I failed in adding what I see to an essetinal part of the Iaijutsu Master. The intense concentration and focus required to make such quick, deverstating strikes.

With this in mind, I would like to ask people who are reading this thread to give my suggestions as to other abilities that the Iaijutsu Master can have in place of ones I have currently, to give the Iaijutsu Master more engaging gameplay, as well as giving them reason to level up the Concentration Skill.

Amechra
2014-08-26, 08:37 PM
I'd suggest taking a look at the Diamond Mind discipline from ToB; it's got Concentration love in droves.

Actually, ToB added a new option for the Intimidate skill, Duel of Wills; basically, you lock eyes with someone while Initiative is rolled, and you can get bonuses based off of an opposed Intimidate check. Diamond Mind's first Discipline feat, Unnerving Calm, lets you use Concentration on the check instead, with a +4 bonus and a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls if they ignore your challenge.

Maybe a set of class features based off that? You get bonuses on Duels of Wills, can use Concentration checks instead of Intimidate checks, use it on more people, ramp up the benefits, etc, etc.

After all, what's more iconic than staring people down before you slash them up with perfect concentration?

Other skill uses you could co-op and steal for Concentration are:

Autohypnosis' Resist Dying and Willpower uses. Let you use Concentration for them, ramp 'em up to something superhuman, and you've got something neat going on.
Sense Motive's Assess Opponent. Supreme focus lets you read your opponent's martial skills!
Swim's Extra Breath. Stay underwater a bit longer through your iron will.
Constitution Checks to hold your breath, resist hunger and thirst, and to keep running.

Also, I'm glad you like my homebrew; always good to hear. (And I'm liking the Steel Blue).

Dyhmas
2014-08-27, 08:52 AM
Regarding Iaijutsu Training, given that this class already get 4 skill points per level, I think it is only fair that the player has to spend some of those points in order to max this skill. Wich he'll certainly do, I know. Why don't you make it so he gets a bonus on Iaijutsu Focus rolls equal to half his level in the class? This way you don't mess with the skill points mechanic and you give breathing room for the player, in case he wants to spend those points in something else.

Also, while I like this class, I think you're barely scratching the surface, when it comes to fluff. Perhaps you'd do well to read about Iaijutsu (wich is still practiced nowadays, I'm sure you know) to check some other aspects of it you can add to the class, since it goes way beyond only being able to draw and defeat a foe quickly.

Anyway, liking it so far!

Brew on!

-Dyhmas

~Corvus~
2014-08-27, 12:14 PM
A concept after my heart. Great suggestions so far. I kind of see the Iaijutsu Focus skill the way you put it: the fixed skill progression prevents skillpoint shenanigans.

Do add more, as per Amechra and Dhymas' suggestions. Also the Kiai ability is a big part of the Samurai/ iaido tradition, as it represents your fighting spirit.

Tempestfury
2014-09-04, 01:15 PM
Okay. Iaijutsu Master 2.0 potentially, going to post what I've got here in order to see what people think of the changes and also allow them to look at the whole picture of what the changes do.

Iaijutsu Master

MAKING AN IAIJUTSU MASTER
Attributes: Charisma is the most important attribute by far. Not only is it the attribute that Iaijutsu focused is scaled on, but several class features dependant on it. Dexterity and Constitution are both important secondary attributes, improving defence, health and saves.
Alignment: Being mainly a Samurai technique, the vast majority of Iaijutsu Masters are Lawful in alignment. However there are few that are neutral, and fewer still that are Chaotic.
Starting age: As a Paladin
Staring gold As a Paladin.

Class Skills
The Zen Bladeís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Iaijutsu Focus (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex)
Skill Points at first level: (4 + Int Modifier)x4
Skill Points at each additional level: 4 + Int Modifier.
Hit Die: d8



Level
Base Attack Bonus
Fort Save
Ref Save
Will Save
Special


1st
+1

+0
+2

+2Iaijutsu Training, Master Finesse


2nd
+2

+0
+3

+3Kiai, Draw, strike, sheath


3rd
+3

+1
+3

+3Kiai Strike


4th
+4

+1
+4

+4Bonus Feat


5th
+5

+1
+4

+4Lightning Blade


6th
+6/+1

+2
+5

+5Focused Strike


7th
+7/+2

+2
+5

+5Blurred Blade


8th
+8/+3

+2
+6

+6Masterís Challenge, Bonus Feat


9th
+9/+4

+3
+6

+6Strike from the Void


10th
+10/+5

+3
+7

+7Shield of Blades


11th
+11/+6/+1

+3
+7

+7One Strike, Two Cuts


12th
+12/+7/+2

+4
+8

+8Bonus Feat, Superior Finesse


13th
+13/+8/+3

+4
+8

+8Kiaiís Mobility


14th
+14/+9/+4

+4
+9

+9Grace of Kiai


15th
+15/+10/+5

+5
+9

+9Disruptive Strike


16th
+16/+11/+6/+1

+5
+10

+10One Strike, Three Cuts, Bonus Feat


17th
+17/+12/+7/+2

+5
+10

+10Battlefield Devastation


18th
18/+13/+8/+3

+6
+11

+11Challenge the World


19th
19/+14/+9/+4

+6
+11

+11Strike with No Thought


20th
+20/+15/+10/+5

+6
+12

+12Body-Spirit Unity, Bonus Feat



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Iaijutsu Master.
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Iaijutsu Master are proficient with all simple weapons, and all one-handed swords. They are proficient with light and medium armour.
Special: The Iaijutsu Master Class Features only apply when wielding a one-handed sword in one hand, and nothing in the other hand.

Iaijutsu Training
The Iaijutsu Master, is of course, well versed in the art of Iaijutsu, more so than most. Every level taken as an Iaijutsu Master puts a skill point into the Iaijutsu Focus skill. If this class is taken at level one, this free skill point is x4.

Master Finesse
Speed and agility is more important to an Iaijutsu Master than raw strength. They get the Weapon Finesse feat for free, and can finesse any one-handed sword when holding nothing in their other hand.

Draw, strike, sheath
The art if Iaijutsu requires a quick draw to strike before returning the sword to its sheath. At level 2, the Iaijutsu Master gets Quick Draw as a bonus feat, and has the ability to sheathe a single one-handed sword as a swift action.

Kiai
Kiai, the representation of the fighting spirit. It is said that the stronger your Kiai, the stronger your blows will become when you call upon it. The Iaijutsu Master is an expert of calling on the power of their Kiai in various ways, although their spirit can only supply them with so much strength. After reaching level 2, at the beginning of each day, you gain a number of Kiai points equal to your Class level, plus your Charisma modifier. Whenever you, personally, successfully defeat an enemy, you regain a number of Kiai points equal to half your Charisma modifier.

Kiaiís Power
At level 3, when you still have 1 point of Kiai remaining, you may add your Charisma modifier as a bonus to your AC, as well as your damage rolls. In addition, your sword is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of damage reduction. At level 8, your Kiai becomes attuned to your alignment, making your sword be treated as either Lawful or Chaotic. Neutral Iaijutsu Masterís chose one. At level 12, you Kiai hardens your weapon, allowing it to be treated as adamantine for the purpose of damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

The bonus to AC only applies when wearing no armour or light armour. Wearing medium armour halves the bonus to AC, whilst wearing heavy armour completely negates it.

Bonus Feats
At 4th level, and every four levels after that, a Iaijutsu Master gains a bonus feat in addition to those they obtain by means of improving levels. These bonus feats must be drawn from the feats noted as fighter bonus feats, or Skill Focus (Iaijutsu Focus). A Iaijutsu Master must still meet the prerequisites for a bonus feat, as usual. For purposes of fighter level prerequisites, a Iaijutsu Master is considered to have a fighter level equal to their Iaijutsu Master level -4

Lightning Blade
As an Iaijutsu Master becomes more experienced, their speed with the blade translate into a speed of the body. At 5th level, as long as the Iaijutsu Master has at least 1 point of Kiai, they add their Charisma modifier as a bonus to their Initiative, as well as their Dexterity modifier. This only applies when wearing no armour or light armour. Wearing medium armour halves the bonus to Initiative, whilst wearing heavy armour completely negates it.

Focused Strike
Upon reaching level 6, the Iaijutsu Master has learned how to use his Kiai to open his opponent up for his devastating strikes. By spending 1 point of Kiai as a swift action, they can treat an enemy as flat-footed until the end of the Iaijutsu Masterís turn, even if they do not lose their dexterity bonus to their AC.

At 12th level, the Iaijutsu Master ability to use his Kiai to make a focused, devastating strike improves. They no longer need to spend Kiai to treat an enemy as flat-footed for a swift action. They gain the ability to spend 1 point of Kiai as a free action to treat an enemy as flat-footed.

Blurred Blade
At level 7, the Iaijutsu Master speed is increasing significantly, bolstered by their Kiai. As long as they have 1 Kiai remaining, they may sheathe their weapon as a free action. Additionally, they gain Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat. If they already have Combat Reflexes, they may gain any fighter bonus feat they mean the prerequisites for. Whenever they would make attack of opportunity, they may spend 1 Kiai, to make enemy treated as flat-footed against that attack.

Masterís Challenge
Once they have reached level 8, the Iaijutsu Master begins to learn how to use their Kiai to fight against the fighting spirits of their enemy. By spending 2 points of Kiai as a free action, an Iaijutsu Master can challenge an opponent. They can either ignore the challenge, or respond to it. You can only challenge one opponent at a time.

If they ignore it, make a Concentration roll vs 10+ their ECL. If you succeed, you gain an attack bonus equal to your charisma modifier against your opponent. You can end this effect prematurely, in order to multiply the bonus attack granted by your Iaijutsu Master level/2 for one round.

If they respond to a challenge, make a Concentration roll vs their Intimidate or their Concentration, whichever is higher. The winner gains a bonus to attack and damage rolls against the loser equal to your Charisma modifier, and the loser takes a penalty on all attack and damage rolls equal to half your Charisma modifier. If you won, you can end the effect prematurely to get the same effects as if they ignored the challenge, with the bonus damage multiplied by your Iaijutsu Master level/4.

Strike from the Void
The Iaijutsu Masterís strength of spirit keeps on increasing, allowing his blows to become even stronger. After reaching level 9, the Iaijutsu Master can spend 1 point of Kiai in order to add their charisma modifier to each 2 dice of damage from Iaijutsu Focus for one round.

The damage from Strike to the Void can be doubled endlessly, as long as you have the Kiai to spend. However, each time you do so, the Kiai costs double the amount of previous. For example, adding the charisma modifier to each die of damage costs an additional 2 Kiai, for a total of 3. Raising it to a total of 2xCHA for each die of damage costs an additional 4 Kiai, for a total of 7. And so on and so forth.

Shield of Blades
The Iaijutsu Masterís speed and reflexes are always increasing, and at level 10, they unlock a new ability to add to their arsenal. Whenever they are attacked by a non-spell attack, they may spend 2 Kiai points to make an opposing attack roll or Iaijutsu Focus roll. If their rolling is higher, they may negate the attack. By spending an additional 2 Kiai points, they may also provoke an attack of opportunity from the attacker if they successfully negate the attack.

Superior Finesse
At level 12, the Iaijutsu Masterís skill with the blade and usage of Kiai have advanced to a point where he can use his Kiai to enhance the accuracy of his strikes. If you have at least 2 point of Kiai remaining, you can may instead add your dexterity modifier to attack rolls with Finessable weapons instead of replacing Strength.

In addition, the Iaijutsu Master can use his Kiai for bursts of insights that allow him to strike past even the strongest of armour to drive his sword home. By spending 2 Kiai as a swift action, the Iaijutsu Master can make all of his attacks against 1 enemy against their Touch AC for one round. At level 17, this cost is reduced to 1, or they can spend 2 Kiai as a free action to have the same effect.

Kiaiís mobility
As they reach level 13, the Iaijutsu Masterís understanding of Kiai and its usage in augmenting his abilities, as well as his natural speed are reaching new heights. As long as the Iaijutsu Master has at least 2 points of Kiai remaining, the Iaijutsu Masterís base speed increases by 10ft, and they gain an extra 5ft in reach.

In addition, as a swift action the Iaijutsu Master may spend Kiai to move a distance equal to 10ft per point of Kiai spent, up to a total of their speed. At level 18, you may instead move 20ft per point of Kiai spent, or as a free action move 10ft equal to your Kiai spent.

Grace of Kiai
At level 14, an Iaijutsu Masterís understand of his fighting spirit allows him to use it in new, graceful ways that further his abilities. As long as the Iaijutsu Master has at least 2 points of Kiai remaining, he may add his Charisma modifier to his saves. This does not stack with Divine Grace, but does stack with other effects which increase saves.

In addition, the power of the Iaijutsu Masterís Strike from the Void increases. Now, they add their charisma modifier for each die of damage of Iaijutsu Master for 1 Kiai, and can double the damage dealt from there. Or, you can pay double the cost in order to extend the effect to last for a number of rounds equal to half their Charisma modifier.

Disruptive Strike
The Iaijutsu Masterís strength of Kiai at level 15 allows them to see the world in new ways, to see the threads of magic and life force, and with enough concentration, are able to cutting through them directly to deal devastating blows. By spending 3 points of Kiai, an Iaijutsu Master may apply one of the three following effects to their next strike:

The Iaijutsu Master may make a dispelling check against any ongoing effect against the target he struck, this include striking a Wall spell and trying to dispel it. The Iaijutsu Master uses his Concentration check in place of a Caster Level check for this effect.

The Iaijutsu Master automatically staggers the opponent he hits for a number of rounds equal to half his charisma modifier. The Iaijutsu Master can instead opt to attempt to stun the opponent for a single round. The opponent can make a Fortitude saving throw against this, with the DC being equal to a concentration check. This stun bypasses immunity to stuns.

Though perceiving the flow of life around them, the Iaijutsu Master can strike cleanly, ignoring effects that would otherwise dissuade him. By making an concentration check vs the AC of the enemy, they may ignore any miss-chance the enemy has and automatically threaten a critical hit if they succeed in their check.

Battlefield Devastation
As they begin to reach towards the perfection of their art, an Iaijutsu Master seeks to do more than simply slay enemies, but to completely devastate the field. Upon reaching level 17, as long as the Iaijutsu Master has 3 points of Kiai remaining, they add another 20ft to their base speed and 5ft to their reach. By spending 2 points of Kiai, an Iaijutsu Master may extend his reach so that it equals their dexterity score for one round.

Additionally, the Iaijutsu Masterís ambition in the battlefield allows them to further fuel the Kiai. Whenever the Iaijutsu Master threatens with a critical hit, they may regain an amount of Kiai equal to 1/4 of their class level. Because of the increased emphasis on devastating strikes, the swords that the Iaijutsu Master is wielding has their critical range and critical modifier increased by 1.

Challenge the World
Growing more experienced in battle, and more confidant in their powers. Level 18 Iaijutsu Masterís begin to believe they can take on the world. They can now use the Masterí Challenge class feature on each enemy within 60ft, though the cost is doubled if they use it in this way. The cost for challenging only one enemy is reduced by 1.

In addition, the Iaijutsu Masterís confidence is enough that their Kiai itself can strike at enemies. As long as the Iaijutsu Master has 3 points of Kiai remaining, at the end of the round, each enemy within reach takes damage equal to the damage added by the Iaijutsu Focus. This damage can include Strike From the Void if it is in effect.

Strike with no Thought
The Iaijutsu Masterís ability to strike has reached a point that they no longer have to think in order to strike. At level 19, if an Iaijutsu Master begins combat within a range of opponent equal to her base speed+meele range, they gain a free surprise round. Even if the enemies are away of their presence, or even during a surprise round of their own. During this surprise round, an Iaijutsu Master must make an attack with a one-handed sword against an enemy or forfeit the surprise round

As well as this ability, the Iaijutsu Master can now unleash bursts of amazing speed, allowing them to perform feats that are impossible for a lesser man. By spending 5 points of Kiai, they may make an extra standard or move action this turn, by spending 7 points of Kiai, they may instead make an extra full-round action.

Body-Spirit Unity
At level 20, the Iaijutsu Master has reached the pinnacle of spiritual and physical ability, and is able to use his body and spirit to argument the others in ways previously thought impossible. All costs for Kiai are reduced by 1. Additionally, you gain the Epic Feat Improved Iaijutsu Focus, even if you donít meet the prerequisites.

Finally, whenever you apply your charisma modifier to a roll, you may also add your dexterity modifier as well, and whenever you apply your dexterity modifier to a roll, you may also add your charisma modifier as well. If you are only adding a fraction of an ability modifier to a roll, still add the other ability modifier, but it too is affected by the fraction.

Amechra
2014-09-11, 10:31 PM
It looks pretty good! Or, at least, I like it.

You could have some way to recover Kiai, but that's a minor thing.

InfinityArts
2014-09-11, 11:00 PM
Grace of Kiai
At level 14, an Iaijutsu Masterís understand of his fighting spirit allows him to use it in new, graceful ways that further his abilities. As long as the Iaijutsu Master has at least 2 points of Kiai remaining, he may add his Charisma modifier to his saves. This does not stack with Divine Grace, but does stack with other effects which increase saves.

In addition, the power of the Iaijutsu Masterís Strike from the Void increases. Now, they add their charisma modifier for each die of damage of Iaijutsu Master for 1 Kiai, and can double the damage dealt from their. Or, you can pay double the cost in order to extend the effect to last for a number of rounds equal to half their Charisma modifier.

Disruptive Strike
The Iaijutsu Masterís strength of Kiai at level 15 allows them to see the world in new ways, to see the threads of magic and life force, and with enough concentration, are able to cutting through them directly to deal devastating blows. By spending 3 points of Kiai, an Iaijutsu Master may apply one of the three following effects to their next strike:

The Iaijutsu Master may make a dispelling check against any ongoing effect against the target he struck, this include striking a Wall spell and trying to dispel it. The Iaijutsu Master uses his Concentration check in place of a Caster Level check for this effect.

The Iaijutsu Master automatically staggers the opponent he hits for a number of rounds equal to half his charisma modifier. The Iaijutsu Master can instead opt to attempt to stun the opponent for a single round. The opponent can make a Fortitude saving throw against this, with the DC being equal to a concentration check. This stun bypasses immunity to stuns.

Though perceiving the flow of life around them, the Iaijutsu Master can strike cleanly, ignoring effects that would otherwise dissuade him. By making an concentration check vs the AC of the enemy, they may ignore any miss-chance the enemy has and automatically threaten a critical hit if they succeed in their check.


I really like this class, adding reach really makes your life as a melee fighter a lot easier, though sheathing as a swift action would keep you from abusing IF too much.

You're missing something in the Grace of Kiai entry (bolded). Also, save vs. skill checks? That's pretty mean.

Tempestfury
2014-09-12, 06:17 AM
It looks pretty good! Or, at least, I like it.

You could have some way to recover Kiai, but that's a minor thing.

Ummm, I do. Kiai itself lets you recover Kiai equal to your CHA if you manage to land the final blow on an enemy, and the Battlefield Deverstation Class Feature allows you to revoer Kiai equal to 1/4 your class level if you score a crit.

Anything else to say? Your previous response was a lot more detailed in the breakdown.


I really like this class, adding reach really makes your life as a melee fighter a lot easier, though sheathing as a swift action would keep you from abusing IF too much.

You're missing something in the Grace of Kiai entry (bolded). Also, save vs. skill checks? That's pretty mean.

Ummm, did you not not Blurred Blade allowing you to sheathe as a free action? Still, thanks for pointing out the little mistake.

Amechra
2014-09-12, 03:13 PM
I commented so much last time because there were many problems; now that there aren't that many problems, I don't have as much to comment about.

Also, my allergies are killing me, so I no think good right now.

Tempestfury
2014-09-12, 06:17 PM
Ah okay. That explains it then.

Qwertystop
2014-09-13, 11:34 AM
One thing at a time:
Chassis: Reasonable. Decent skills, for a non-Int-focused class that relies on maxing one skill - most likely it balances out at being equivalent to 2/level to choose, assuming Int is dumped and Iaijutsu is kept topped off. Keeping that in mind, though, bumping it up a little might not be too much of a problem.
BAB and Reflex make sense. I would have gone with good Fort over good Will, but it's not much either way.

Now for the Class Features:
Proficiencies are odd. I suppose they fit the class, though.

And... wait. They get Iaijutsu auto-maxed. Okay then, never mind about bumping up the skill points.

Free Finess, plus extra. Fine (I've always thought you should just be able to choose), though they still need Str to do damage.

Quick Draw and Quick Sheathe: Fine.

Kiai: Oh. This is where you're getting all the other class features from - I was wondering. Defeat - not necessarially by martial combat. Intended? Also, as written there seems to be no cap - you gain points every day, and "regain" whenever you defeat an enemy, but if you don't use any points you just have that many more the next day. As written, your effective cap is 2+Cha per day you've been Level 2, plus 3+Cha per day you've been level 3, plus 4+Cha per day you've been level 4, etcetera. Since the extra on defeating an enemy is regaining, not gaining, I'd say that that can only replace points you've spent, so no bag-of-rats trick to get up to NI points, but it still gets kind of crazy-high after a month of downtime or a week of travel.

Kiai's Power: Huh. Incentive to not quite use your whole pool? Interesting. Immediate or gradual power decisions, and it removes the need for Strength for damage.

Bonus Feats: Feels like filler, but useful, certainly.

Lightning Blade: This seems odd. Unless you start a fight with no Kiai, you get the Initiative boost, but after that this provides no extra incentive to keep it in your pool. The only way I can think of that you wouldn't start the fight with some Kiai (even if you fix the uncapped-pool error) is if you burned it all in an earlier fight that day, yet didn't defeat the enemy. In that case you're either in big trouble anyway, Initiative boost or not, or you've got allies. Or both.

Focused Strike: Ah. So the first time you get the ability to actually spend from the pool you've had since second level is at sixth level. And... it's almost entirely worse than Flick of the Wrist, which is a feat you really should have by this point. It's worse in that it takes an action (so you can't sheathe your weapon for the next round), and in that it uses Kiai (though to be honest you're not exactly lacking for Kiai). It's better in that it can be used more than once per foe per fight and lasts all round - except that since it takes an action you're not getting more than one Iaijutsu attack from it.
The eleventh-level upgrade is good, though. So you can use your swift action to make them flat-footed at no cost, or you can spend the Kiai that you have plenty of to do it as a free action? Much better - now you can use Focused Strike, draw, get an Iaijutsu attack, sheathe as a swift action, draw again, get another Iaijutsu attack, then finish your full attack. This is assuming you can sheathe and draw in the middle of a full attack - is that a thing? I'm not sure.

Blurred Blade: Oh, that mostly removes the action-cost disadvantage of Focused Strike. And then you can use Iaijutsu on AOOs. Typo: "they mean the prerequisites for"

Master's Challenge: Um. So. You challenge, two options. Either they ignore or they accept. If they ignore, you roll Concentration (a skill this class previously had zero use for) against a DC that's lower than your average roll for an enemy of your level. You get Cha to attack if you succeed. If you cancel... I can't tell what bonus that's referring to.
If they accept: you should rephrase this as an opposed check of your Concentration vs their Concentration or Intimidate (their choice). As-is, they get to roll both and pick the higher one. I would note here that most people with max Concentration will be spellcasters, who are unlikely to want to make this roll because they don't care about getting the bonus or penalty, but probably shouldn't risk you getting the bonus. And the canceling for a boost... again, not sure what this is referring to, but the effects if they ignored the challenge are strictly worse than if they accepted and you won.

Strike from the Void could be phrased better, I think. Not sure how, though. Maybe "...to get a bonus to damage equal to half the number of dice of damage from Iaijutsu Focus"? "each 2" is odd.

Shield of Blades: There's already a thing like this and it's better-phrased. Just lift the phrasing from Wall of Blades, it's much clearer. The ability itself is acceptable, though Warblades were doing it for quite a while already.

Superior Finesse: Bad thing. While technically Strength could have been helping you before now, in practice you're already trying to keep Charisma, Dexterity, and Constitution as as high as possible to do all the things you're actually good at doing. Strength is fourth-priority at best, and that's if you're letting both Intelligence and Wisdom be dumped. I'd be surprised to see it higher than 13, and that's only to get Power Attack since you're making so many attacks against flat-footed enemies anyway. Maybe a little higher for some PA-multipliers - I forget where the prerequisite points are for those - but the fact is that Strength is not your priority. The active ability here gives you a lot more Power Attack, though, since it means you can reliably drop the AC you have to hit to 10, then drop everything you can into Power Attack til your final attack bonus is 8. The passive just isn't likely to give you more than +1 to hit (immediately converted by PA to +1 damage) in the end, though.

Kiai's Mobility: Fine.

Grace of Kiai: Divine Grace, which doesn't stack with Divine Grace but does stack with anything else that gives you Charisma to saves - from the X to Y thread, that's Akodo Champion, Blackguard, Corrupt Avenger, Defiant, Eldeen Ranger, the Evil Blessing feat, Hexblade, and lots of other things later in the alphabet (plus some earlier ones that gave it only to specific saves), many of which could fit easily in as a dip with this class. And Grace of Kiai is boosted - double cost for possibly six times the effect, and you can gain the points back in one round and start spending them on other things. Not actually a problem, though - it's still just more damage, and being good at that is sort of the point here.

Disruptive Strike: The explicit inclusion of Wall spells is odd - nothing about them would make them exempt. However, you should say what Dispel spell it's equivalent to, because that does matter.
Stun bypassing immunity to stunning? That's kind of crazy. The DC is odd too - standard formula for saving-throw DC is half level plus ten plus ability modifier. The DC here is well above reasonable, at level plus three plus ability modifier - it starts off one higher than the standard (15+3+CON instead of 10+7+CON) and the gap just increases from there.
Ignore miss change and auto-threaten, by making a Concentration check instead of an attack roll? Um. It synergises well with Battlefield Devastation when they get it - spend three points, threaten a crit, automatically regain four points, five if you're twentieth level, on top of the good chance at bonus damage. Running out of Kiai is officially no longer a problem, if it ever was. Not sure how your odds of hitting would tend to compare, though - I don't know much about what numbers AC tends to hit.

Battlefield Devastation: Even more movespeed. Fine. Also, the crit-booster mentioned above.

Challenge the World: Upgrade to challenge, fine. Makes sense. Maybe a little late, even, but I'm not sure.
And then suddenly the abstract measure of how ready-to-fight you are can damage people you're standing vaguely close to. Based on how hard you just hit someone (so at minimum, it's doubling your Iaijutsu damage against one target). What?

Speed with no Thought: Odd. You're giving them a surprise round inside another surprise round - I don't think that's a thing. Also, "away of their presence".
And then action-granters. Nice.

Body-Spirit Unity: So most of your Kiai abilities are free, and most of the rest costs you less than what you gain back by threatening a crit, which you should be doing all the time anyway.

And then you get Charisma to anything Dexterity-based and Dexterity to anything Charisma-based, which probably means at least +6 on almost everything you're doing that isn't a Concentration check.


So. A lot of things are odd, but I'm not too sure anything's completely broken. Also, you need to mark every single ability with (Ex) or (Su) or possibly (Sp). Most of them seem (Ex), but a couple of things are (Su) at the least.

Tempestfury
2014-09-13, 11:44 AM
So, long digestion there... I know it might be a bit mean of me, but apart from the Ex and Su stuff and typos. What were the main things that bothered you about my class in particular? The top five things which you really disliked and feel that it needs to be changed, either because of its mechanical strength, potential for abuse due to working, or fluff reasons?

Edit: I've actually made a few quick adjustments. Clarified on Kiai to only count if you defeat them in combat, and use the wording from Grit to clean things up. Clarified that its the bonus from Master's Challenge that you can multiply, made it so you can only challenge someone 1/encounter and its their choice between intimidate and concentration. Made it so increasing the bonus damage from Strike From the Void requires you to pay 4x the cost instead of simply doubling it, that should stop it from getting silly.

Superior Finesse now allows you to add part of your Dex to damage as well. Grace of Kiai no longer stacks with other Cha to all save abilities, but other stat to saves or stat to specific save still stacks. Disruptive Strike costs 1 more, the stun has a better DC and gives people immune to stun +4 to resist, and you no longer auto-threaten a crit but instead ignore DR, and Strike with No Thought's extra action costs has been significantly increased.

Qwertystop
2014-09-13, 12:34 PM
Well. That was about it, except for the whole thing in the second part of Challenge the World, which still makes no sense fluff-wise.

Tempestfury
2014-09-13, 01:09 PM
Its meant to represent that his Kiai has grown strong enough that it can attack his enemies without him having to actively strike them. Though perhaps I should halve the damage instead of doing the full Iaijutsu Focus damage.

Qwertystop
2014-09-13, 02:28 PM
Its meant to represent that his Kiai has grown strong enough that it can attack his enemies without him having to actively strike them. Though perhaps I should halve the damage instead of doing the full Iaijutsu Focus damage.

My complaint had nothing to do with the damage. It's just that Kiai starts off as a representation of "fighting spirit." That doesn't mean "blessed by spirits that help you fight," it means that you're ready and willing to fight things.
Every class feature other than the second effect of Challenge the World fits that. You hit harder or faster our more accurately or you sprint or intimidate an enemy/psych yourself up, but it's kind of tiring so you can't keep it up forever, but if you take out an enemy that's encouraging so you can keep going longer. Nothing remotely magical, even if it's Extraordinary. The closest thing to magic is the dispel ability, and that's still just your own strength and skill bring used to disrupt a spell or effect. Kiai, other than the ability in question, is a stamina meter, and it's great.

And then suddenly you add in the second part of Challenge the World, and as long as you're not too tired, you have an aura of being-stabbed that does not involve you actually stabbing everyone in reach.

tl;dr: Other than that ability, you can replace "kiai" with "fighting spirit" as per your original definition and everything makes perfect sense. "Fighting spirit" does not mean "ghostly boxers."

Tempestfury
2014-09-13, 02:36 PM
Its still fits though, a bit of a stretch perhaps, but it still fits within the imagery of Kiai and general Japenesse martial believe as a whole. I think that I might of been a bit wrong in saying what the fluff was. It wasn't that your Kiai itself was striking out at your enemies, but your fighting spirit, and belief in that you could practically take on anything, creates a damaging aura around yourself. Your desire to defeat your enemies is so strong, that your mere presence in battle begins to slowly wear them down.

I believe that explanation fits much, MUCH better and it is definitely still within the realms of the fluff of the Kiai

Network
2014-09-13, 08:11 PM
Its still fits though, a bit of a stretch perhaps, but it still fits within the imagery of Kiai and general Japenesse martial believe as a whole. I think that I might of been a bit wrong in saying what the fluff was. It wasn't that your Kiai itself was striking out at your enemies, but your fighting spirit, and belief in that you could practically take on anything, creates a damaging aura around yourself. Your desire to defeat your enemies is so strong, that your mere presence in battle begins to slowly wear them down.

I believe that explanation fits much, MUCH better and it is definitely still within the realms of the fluff of the Kiai
Technically, this isn't correct. The japanese term "kiai" refers to a battle cry, with "ki" being the term for fighting spirit (the fact that the names are so similar is not a coincidence). Of course the portrayal of ki (or chi) in fiction has nothing to do with the actual thing, but at least you seem to understand that. The only way that kiai could actually damage things (without physical contact being made) is if you are screaming at an enemy... and I recommend you refluff Challenge the World to do exactly that.

The "I'm contracting my muscles to blow air on you that is just enough to hurt you" could also possibly work, if breaking the laws of physics does not bother you.

Nothing remotely magical, even if it's Extraordinary.
That's the point. Extraordinary things are not magical, no matter what some people would like to make others believe.

Tempestfury
2014-09-13, 08:17 PM
I know that Kiai is a battle cry more than your fighting spirit. I've done martial arts and shouted it myself. I'm just simply twisting reality a bit to make for a better story, or in this place, a better theme for my class. Ki isn't actually anything, but Qi, or Chi, which was refered to as Ki in Dragonball, is the energy of life. So I'm pretty sure Kiai fits better for fighting spirit. Plus the monk and ninja already use Ki, or at least retools do...

infinitetech
2014-10-06, 03:00 AM
good work, a much needed upgrade, keep it up :-)

Tempestfury
2014-10-06, 08:24 AM
Glad you like it, any chance of having a look at the others?

infinitetech
2014-10-06, 10:53 PM
certainly will, also will research this style more then post any ideas