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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Homebrew Dragonfire Adept for 5e [PEACH]



xyianth
2014-08-27, 10:26 PM
One of the classes in 3.5 that I really enjoyed was the Dragonfire Adept. Since it was stylistically similar to the 3.5 Warlock, I based this 5e version on the 5e Warlock. Anyway, please feel free to critique anything that seems out of place. I am fairly sure that it needs some balancing against the rest of 5e, but I am currently unable to give it a proper playtest.

Dragonfire Adept
A dragonfire adept is a student devoted to understanding the ways of dragons and emulating them.



Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
Spells Known
Spell Slots
Slot Level
Invocations Known


1st
+2
Draconic Patron, Spellcasting
2
2
1
1st
ó


2nd
+2
Draconic Invocations
2
3
2
1st
2


3rd
+2
Draconic Patron feature
2
4
2
2nd
2


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
3
5
2
2nd
2


5th
+3
ó
3
6
2
3rd
3


6th
+3
Draconic Patron feature
3
7
2
3rd
3


7th
+3
ó
3
8
2
4th
4


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
3
9
2
4th
4


9th
+4
ó
3
10
2
5th
5


10th
+4
Draconic Patron feature
4
10
2
5th
5


11th
+4
Draconic Secret(6th)
4
11
3
5th
5


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
4
11
3
5th
6


13th
+5
Draconic Secret(7th)
4
12
3
5th
6


14th
+5
Draconic Patron feature
4
12
3
5th
6


15th
+5
Draconic Secret(8th)
4
13
3
5th
7


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
4
13
3
5th
7


17th
+6
Draconic Secret(9th)
4
14
4
5th
7


18th
+6
ó
4
14
4
5th
8


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
4
15
4
5th
8


20th
+6
Draconic Master
4
15
4
5th
8



Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per dragonfire adept level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per dragonfire adept level after 1st

Proficiencies
Armor: None
Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: None

Saving Throws: Constitution, Charisma
Skills: Choose two from Arcana, History, Intimidation, Nature, Religion, Perception, Insight

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

(a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) ant simple weapon
(a) a component pouch or (b) an arcane focus
(a) a dungeoneerís pack or (b) a scholarís pack
any simple weapon and two daggers

Draconic Patron
At 1st level, you make a choice to follow the ideals of the metallic dragons in the service of Bahamut or to embrace your darker nature and follow Tiamat and her chromatic dragons. Your choice grants you features at 1st level and again at 3rd, 6th, 10th, and 14th level. Each of these are detailed at the end of the class description.

Spellcasting
Your draconic nature grants you a certain facility with spells. See chapter 10 for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 for the dragonfire adept spell list.


Cantrips
At 1st level, you know two cantrips of your choice from the dragonfire adept spell list. You learn additional cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Dragonfire Adept table.

Spell Slots
The Dragonfire Adept table shows how many spell slots you have. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your dragonfire adept spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest.

For example, when you are 5th level, you have two 3rd-level spell slots. To cast the 1st-level spell thunderwave, you must spend one of those slots, and you cast it as a 3rd-level spell.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher
At 1st level, you know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the dragonfire adept spell list.
The Spells Known column of the Dragonfire Adept table shows when you learn more dragonfire adept spells of your choice of 1st level and higher. A spell you choose must be of a level no higher than whatís shown in the tableís Slot Level column for your level. When you reach 6th level, for example, you learn a new dragonfire adept spell, which can be 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the dragonfire adept spells you know and replace it with another spell from the dragonfire adept spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Spellcasting Ability
Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your dragonfire adept spells, so you use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a dragonfire adept spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier
Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus (found in chapter 5) as a spellcasting focus for your dragonfire adept spells.

Draconic Invocations
As you awaken your draconic heritage, you acquire additional facets of draconic mysticism that imbue you with an abiding magical ability.
At 2nd level, you gain two draconic invocations of your choice. Your invocation options are detailed at the end of the class description. When you gain certain dragonfire adept levels, you gain additional invocations of your choice, as shown in the Invocations Known column of the Dragonfire Adept table.
Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the invocations you know and replace it with another invocation that you could learn at that level.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you canít increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Draconic Secret
At 11th level, your draconic heritage reveals to you a potent magical secret. Choose one 6th-level spell from the dragonfire adept spell list as this secret.
You can cast your secret spell once without expending a spell slot. You must finish a long rest before you can do so again.
At higher levels, you gain more dragonfire adept spells of your choice that can be cast in this way: one 7th-level spell at 13th level, one 8th-level spell at 15th level, and one 9th-level spell at 17th level. You regain all uses of your Draconic Secrets when you finish a long rest.

Draconic Master
At 20th level, you can draw on your inner reserve of draconic power to regain expended spell slots. You can spend 1 minute of inner reflection to regain all your expended spell slots, but not your Draconic Secrets. Once you regain spell slots with this feature, you must finish a long rest before you can do so again.


Draconic Patrons
Your choice of draconic patron greatly influences your abilities as you progress in experience.

Bahamut

Expanded Spell List


1st
color spray, protection from evil


2nd
calm emotions, heat metal


3rd
counterspell, gaseous form


4th
hallucinatory terrain, otilukeís resilient sphere


5th
bigbyís hand, contact other plane



Aspect of the Metallic Dragons
At 1st level, your choice of Draconic Patron influences your draconic nature at a fundamental level. You must select a type of metallic dragon that you identify with. Your choices are detailed below. You gain a breath weapon that deals damage of the type indicated. You also grow a thin set of scales that match the color of your chosen dragon. These scales give you an AC of 13 + your Dexterity modifier when you arenít wearing armor.



Brass
Fire


Bronze
Acid


Copper
Lightning


Gold
Fire


Silver
Cold



Breath Weapon
conjuration cantrip

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 15 feet (cone) or 30 feet (line)
Components: None
Duration: Instantaneous

You tap into your draconic nature and unleash a raging torrent of energy. Choose the shape and range of this energy when you use it. All creatures in range must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d8 damage. On a successful save, they take half damage. The save DC for this effect is based on your Constitution modifier. The type of damage is determined by your Draconic Patron choice. This damage increases by 1d8 damage at 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).


Energy Expertise
At 3rd level, your mastery of your draconic nature improves enough for a secondary breath weapon type to emerge. Consult the table below to determine your new energy type. You cannot select a different dragon than you selected before. Whenever you use your breath weapon, you can select which of your two energy types to use. In addition, you gain resistance to both energy types.



Brass
Radiant


Bronze
Necrotic


Copper
Thunder


Gold
Radiant


Silver
Force



Scintillating Scales
At 6th level, as a reaction in response to being hit with an attack you can stiffen your scales for a short period of time. Starting with the attack that triggered this reaction and lasting for 1 minute, you can add your proficiency bonus to your AC. Once you use this ability, you can not do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Greater Aspect of Metallic Dragons
At 10th level, you become immune to paralysis and magical effects that render you unconcious. Additionally, your breath weaponís range is doubled. You may add double your proficiency bonus to any Charisma checks when interacting with metallic dragons, even if you would otherwise not be proficient in them.

Discorporating Breath of Bahamut
At 14th level, you learn to mimic the effects of the mighty breath weapon of Bahamut. As an action on your turn you can produce a breath weapon that inflicts 10d10 untyped damage to those in range unless they succeed on a dexterity saving throw. Those that do save take half damage. This damage bypasses all resistances and immunities. If a creature is dropped to 0 hit points with this damage, it and all of its non-magical possessions turn to dust. (see the disintegrate spell for details) Once you use this ability, you can not do so again until you finish a long rest.


Tiamat

Expanded Spell List


1st
chromatic orb, protection from good


2nd
crown of madness, blindness/deafness


3rd
animate dead, vampiric touch


4th
blight, phantasmal killer


5th
modify memory, planar binding



Aspect of the Chromatic Dragons
At 1st level, your choice of Draconic Patron influences your draconic nature at a fundamental level. You must select a type of chromatic dragon that you identify with. Your choices are detailed below. You gain a breath weapon that deals damage of the type indicated. You also grow a thin set of scales that match the color of your chosen dragon. These scales give you an AC of 13 + your Dexterity modifier when you arenít wearing armor.



Black
Acid


Blue
Lightning


Green
Poison


Red
Fire


White
Cold



Breath Weapon
conjuration cantrip

Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 15 feet (cone) or 30 feet (line)
Components: None
Duration: Instantaneous

You tap into your draconic nature and unleash a raging torrent of energy. Choose the shape and range of this energy when you use it. All creatures in range must succeed on a Dexterity saving throw or take 1d8 damage. On a successful save, they take half damage. The save DC for this effect is based on your Constitution modifier. The type of damage is determined by your Draconic Patron choice. This damage increases by 1d8 damage at 5th level (2d8), 11th level (3d8), and 17th level (4d8).


Energy Dominance
At 3rd level, your mastery of your draconic nature improves enough for a secondary breath weapon type to emerge. Consult the table below to determine your new energy type. You cannot select a different dragon than you selected before. Whenever you use your breath weapon, you can select which of your two energy types to use. In addition, you gain resistance to both energy types.



Black
Necrotic


Blue
Thunder


Green
Psychic


Red
Radiant


White
Force



Frightful Presence
At 6th level, as a reaction in response to being attacked, you can project the frightful presence of a dragon for a brief moment. All enemies within 30í must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. Any creatures affected by this can attempt a new save at the start of their turn to end the effect. Creatures immune to fear are not affected by this ability. Once you use this feature, you can not do so again until you finish a short or long rest.

Greater Aspect of Chromatic Dragons
At 10th level, you become immune to paralysis and magical effects that render you unconscious. Additionally, your breath weaponís range is doubled. You may add double your proficiency bonus to any Charisma checks when interacting with chromatic dragons, even if you would otherwise not be proficient in them.

Fivefold Breath of Tiamat
At 14th level, you learn to mimic the effects of the mighty breath weapon of Tiamat. You can, as an action on your turn use your breath weapon 5 times simultaneously. Each breath weapon is resolved independently and can be aimed at different targets. Each breath weapon corresponds to one of the five primary energy types: acid, lightning, poison, fire, and cold. Once you use this feature, you can not do so again until you finish a long rest.


Draconic Invocations
If a draconic invocation has prerequisites, you must meet them to learn it. You can learn the invocation at the same time that you meet its prerequisites.


Baleful Geas
Prerequisite: 9th level
You can cast geas once using a dragonfire adept spell slot. You canít do so again until you finish a long rest.

Beguiling Influence
You gain proficiency in the Deception and Persuasion skills.

Breath of the Night
Prerequisite: 12th level
You can cast fog cloud at-will, without expending a spell slot.

Draconic Knowledge
You gain proficiency in the Arcana and History skills.

Draconic Toughness
Prerequisite: 7th level
You can cast false life on yourself at-will as a 2nd-level spell, without expending a spell slot or material components.

Dragon Wings
Prerequisite: 12th level
You gain the ability to sprout a pair of dragon wings from your back, gaining a flying speed equal to your current speed. You can create these wings as a bonus action on your turn. They last until you dismiss them as a bonus action on your turn. This ability works exactly like the Draconic Sorcerer ability Dragon Wings.

Dragonsight
You can see normally in darkness, both magical and nonmagical, to a distance of 120 feet.

Endure Exposure
Your breath weapon only affects enemies in range.

Entangling Exhalation
When you use your breath weapon, you can choose to make it an entangling blast of energy. Your breath weapon deals half its normal damage (which is halved again if the creature saves), but any creature that takes damage becomes restrained for 1d4 rounds. Any creature so restrained takes 1d8 damage of the same type as your breath weapon at the start of its turn. It can use its action to end the effect. It can also attempt a Dexterity check against your breath weaponís save DC to ignore the restrained condition, but not the damage, for the current turn. You can use the ability at-will. Multiple uses of this ability with the same energy type donít stack. Multiple uses of this ability with different energy types overlap for the purposes of the restrained condition, but the damage from all energy sources is resolved independently. A creature can end all entangling breath effects affecting it with an action on its turn.

Enthralling Voice
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast the spell enthrall at-will, without expending a spell slot.

Humanoid Shape
Prerequisite: 15th level
You can cast alter self at-will, without expending a spell slot.

Lingering Breath
Prerequisite: 9th level
When you use your breath weapon you can choose to have it linger as a cloud for 1 round. Any creature that enters or ends its turn inside the cloud takes half normal damage and/or feels the effects of the breath weapon, but only for half the normal duration. You can use this ability at-will.

Magic Insight
You can cast detect magic at will, without expending a spell slot. If you concentrate on a magic item for 1 minute, you learn its properties as if you had cast identify on the item.

Powerful Breath
When you use your Breath Weapon ability, add your Charisma modifier to the damage it deals to each creature in range.

Sleep Breath
Prerequisite: 9th level
When you use your breath weapon, you can choose to breathe a sleep-inducing gas instead. Your breath weapon deals no damage, and all creatures affected must succeed on a Constitution save or be affected as by the sleep spell. Each creature can attempt a new save each round for the duration (2 rounds) to ignore the sleep effect for that round. You may use this ability at-will.

Slow Breath
Prerequisite: 5th level
When you use your breath weapon, you can choose to breathe a magical slow effect instead. Your breath weapon deals no damage and all creatures affected must succeed on a Strength save or be affected as by the slow spell. Each creature can attempt a new save each round for the duration (2 rounds) to ignore the slow effect for that round. You may use this ability at-will.

Terrifying Roar
Prerequisite: 7th level
You can cast fear at will, without expending a spell slot. Your roar has a duration of 2 rounds. Any creature that succeeds on its Wisdom save is immune to your fear spells for 24 hours.

Voracious Dispelling
Prerequisite: 5th level
You can cast dispel magic once using a dragonfire adept spell slot. You canít do so again until you finish a long rest.

Whispers of the Dragon
Prerequisite: 15th level
You can cast suggestion at-will, without expending a spell slot.

Wingstorm
Prerequisite: 15th level, Dragon Wings invocation
While flying with your Dragon Wings, you can cast gust of wind at-will, without expending a spell slot as a bonus action. The gust only lasts 1 round each use.

Dragonfire Adept Spell List


0th
blade ward, dancing lights, friends, light, mage hand, message, minor illusion, prestidigitation, thaumaturgy, true strike, vicious mockery


1st
charm person, comprehend languages, disguise self, expeditious retreat, feather fall, grease, illusory script, instill vulnerability*, magic missile, ray of sickness, shield, silent image, sleep, thunderwave


2nd
arcane lock, cloud of daggers, darkness, detect thoughts, enlarge/reduce, hold person, invisibility, locate object, magic mouth, mirror image, misty step, ray of enfeeblement, shatter


3rd
bestow curse, glyph of warding, haste, hypnotic pattern, magic circle, remove curse, sending, sleet storm, stinking cloud, tongues, water breathing


4th
banishment, dimension door, fire shield, ice storm, stoneskin, wall of fire


5th
cloudkill, creation, hold monster, legend lore, scrying, telekinesis


6th
arcane gate, contingency, globe of invulnerability, guards and wards, mass suggestion, true seeing


7th
etherealness, plane shift, prismatic spray, project image, reverse gravity, teleport


8th
dominate monster, feeblemind, glibness, mind blank, power word stun


9th
foresight, power word kill, shapechange, time stop, true polymorph


* = new spell defined below

New Spells

Instill Vulnerability
1st-level necromancy

Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 90 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour

You project your draconic majesty towards a creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, that creature gains vulnerability to one energy type of your choice. If the target is resistant to that energy type, it instead loses that resistance. If the target is immune to that energy, it instead becomes resistant to it. Also, the target has disadvantage on ability checks made to resist your breath weapon.
If the target drops to 0 hit points before the spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to instill vulnerability in a new creature.
A remove curse cast on the target ends this spell early.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.

Please let me know if I should add any formatting to make this easier to read. Thanks in advance for reading.

AuraTwilight
2014-08-28, 12:55 AM
This is fantastic!

Dyhmas
2014-08-28, 07:06 AM
*clap clap clap*

You sir just made a player in my table one happy dude.

I'll be sure to check this later for some PEACHing and, when my group starts playing, I'll be sure to give any impressions we get with this class.

Brew on!

-Dyhmas

Gnomes2169
2014-08-28, 08:09 AM
The breath weapon's damage is probably a little low (there are many, many cantrips that do just as much damage, and some that do more, and a dragonborn starts with higher damage...). At the moment, there is no reason a player would choose the damage form of tge weapon over the sleep or entangling versions, since the 23 average damage at level 20 is the left side of worthless, and thinking about it... sleep with not hit point cap might just be a little broken, even if it is only for one round...

Anyway, beyond that, everything looks good!

xyianth
2014-08-28, 09:52 AM
This is fantastic!

Thank you!


*clap clap clap*

You sir just made a player in my table one happy dude.

I'll be sure to check this later for some PEACHing and, when my group starts playing, I'll be sure to give any impressions we get with this class.

Brew on!

-Dyhmas

I'm happy it was helpful. Any impressions from actual playing would be awesome, it will help me balance this out.


The breath weapon's damage is probably a little low (there are many, many cantrips that do just as much damage, and some that do more, and a dragonborn starts with higher damage...). At the moment, there is no reason a player would choose the damage form of tge weapon over the sleep or entangling versions, since the 23 average damage at level 20 is the left side of worthless, and thinking about it... sleep with not hit point cap might just be a little broken, even if it is only for one round...

I thought about upping the damage, but no other cantrip is capable of half damage on a save, changeable energy types (for targeting vulnerabilities), or 30' cone AoE. I was afraid that upping the damage on top of all that would be too much. As for the dragonborn's breath, that isn't at-will right? In my experience with a Dragonfire Adept in 3.5, they were never really about being the blaster of the group. They were much better as a battlefield controller. Maybe I can solve the damage problem with a homebrew spell similar to the hex spell for warlocks, one that specifically increases the damage of the breath weapon against a single target. It still wouldn't deter players from using the entangling/slow/sleep versions every time, but that was also true in 3.5...


Instill Vulnerability
1st-level necromancy

Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: 90 feet
Components: V, S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 hour

You project your draconic majesty towards a creature that you can see within range. Until the spell ends, that creature gains vulnerability to one energy type of your choice. If the target is resistant to that energy type, it instead loses that resistance. If the target is immune to that energy, it instead becomes resistant to it. Also, the target has disadvantage on ability checks made to resist your breath weapon.
If the target drops to 0 hit points before the spell ends, you can use a bonus action on a subsequent turn of yours to instill vulnerability in a new creature.
A remove curse cast on the target ends this spell early.
At Higher Levels. When you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd or 4th level, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 8 hours. When you use a spell slot of 5th level or higher, you can maintain your concentration on the spell for up to 24 hours.

I think you might be right on the no hit point cap sleep effect being broken, maybe adding a scaling hit point cap would fix it? how about:

roll 10d8+normal breath weapon damage, the total is how many hit points of creatures this breath can affect. creatures are affected in ascending hp order(lowest first).
This would make it equivalent to a 6th-7th level sleep spell with a larger, shaped area of effect and a shorter duration.

Thoughts?


Anyway, beyond that, everything looks good!

Thanks!

Gnomes2169
2014-08-28, 11:42 AM
Instill vulnerability should probably scale to hit multiple targets instead of having a larger durration. It seems to be a much more in-combat effect, and I don't really see too much of a use for it outside that role... But it would be a good way to debuff the targets and increase the damage of your breath weapons and your evocation specialist's cantrips.

And the sleep thing should make it a bit more scaled... Though I have to check the level you set to get it, make sure you don't get to cast level 6/7 spells at will really early... :P

xyianth
2014-08-28, 09:30 PM
Instill vulnerability should probably scale to hit multiple targets instead of having a larger durration. It seems to be a much more in-combat effect, and I don't really see too much of a use for it outside that role... But it would be a good way to debuff the targets and increase the damage of your breath weapons and your evocation specialist's cantrips.

I took that from the Warlock's hex spell. I think the way it is intended to work is: you spend a slot at the beginning of the day to concentrate on your hex spell (or in this case instill vulnerability), you can then use your other slots for spells that don't require concentration. You continue to maintain concentration all day, using bonus actions to switch targets. After a short rest, all your spell slots come back, but you are still concentrating on hex/instill vulnerability so you don't need to cast it again. You essentially trade your ability to concentrate on other spells for a constant damage boost, or you can switch to a more control focus and not use the hex/instill vulnerability spell to boost your damage thereby freeing up your concentration for control style spells.

As for targeting multiple creatures, I was trying to balance it with the hex spell. Warlocks use their eldritch blast cantrip to make 1-4x attacks that each do 1d10 normally. (Add Charisma with an invocation slot, just like the Powerful Breath invocation here.) If that target is affected by hex, each attack does an extra 1d6 damage. Compare this to the instill vulnerability spell, and instead of 1-4x d10+d6 you have 2-8x d8. This then averages about the same.


And the sleep thing should make it a bit more scaled... Though I have to check the level you set to get it, make sure you don't get to cast level 6/7 spells at will really early... :P

Having looked at the monsters listed in the DM's Basic Rules Guide, I think I want to change the scaling again. I was overestimating the value of the sleep spell's duration and the average amount of health creatures had. The earliest you can get the Sleep Breath invocation is level 9, the same time Wizards first get 5th level slots. Since the Sleep Breath invocation is at-will, it should probably lag behind the best a similarly leveled Wizard can pull off. That said, sleep is a really poor way for a Wizard to spend a high level spell slot, given their other options. At level 9, the Dragonfire Adept's breath weapon is doing 2d8+Charisma at best. A 5th level sleep spell affects 10d8 hp worth of creatures. This is a range from 10-80 hp, with an average of 50hp. If I set the hp limit on Sleep Breath to 3x the damage of your breath weapon, this gives you a range of 6-48 + 3x Charisma. (or 21-63 at best, average of 45) This seems like a decent effect, without being overpowering. Scaling up to 17th level, when Wizards get access to 9th level spells and Dragonfire Adepts gain 4d8 breath weapons, the 9th level sleep spell affects 18d8 hp worth (18-144 hp, average of 90) and the Sleep Breath affects 3x 4d8+Charisma. (27-111 hp, average of 75) Again this seems reasonable without being game breaking. So I think I will just set the limit on Sleep Breath to 3x your normal breath weapon's damage.

Thanks for the comments, I think these changes have helped improve the balance of this class significantly. :smallsmile:

Edit: Having revisited the sleep spell, I seem to have overlooked the fact that the creatures affected by a Wizard's sleep spell get no save to resist the effect. This makes the hp total the only limiting factor on a sleep spell. The sleep spell is thus MUCH better than even the original uncapped version of Sleep Breath, since creatures can save each round to ignore the effect. I also believe that Constitution will end up being the statistically worst save to target, but that is just a guess until we have an official Monster Manual. In light of this, I'm going to leave Sleep Breath uncapped for now. I think if I add a hp limit, I should remove the save, and I prefer the save being there as a counterbalance.

Zweisteine
2014-08-28, 09:55 PM
While I love this idea, and heartily approve of the idea of using the basic warlock model for this, I see a number of issues.

This class does not stray far enough from that basic warlock model, and seems to be barely a class of its own. Outside of the patrons, invocations, and spell lists, there is almost no difference between the classes.

Also, the patrons are far, far too similar. I would recommend something like this:
Make the scale armor a default class feature, along with the breath weapon. These two features include the lines "the color of your scales is determined by your Draconic patron" and "the energy type of your breath weapon is determined by the color of you scales, as shown in this table." (And the patrons say why colors you can pick).
Do the same with the second breath weapon damage type.

My biggest recommendation is this: cut down on the spellcasting, and add more breath-boosting abilities, like the original DfA. Make this guy's casting be to a paladin or ranger's what a warlock's is to a wuzard's, and give this guy more cool dragon powers to make up for it.

Lesser issues:

Dragon wings should probably ly specify that you grow wings, rather than cast fly. Perhaps say "this invocation is identical to the Draconic sorcerer ability '[whatever it's called]' ."

Wingstorm doesn't seem all that good. Perhaps it should be omnidirectional?

DiBastet
2014-08-28, 10:35 PM
I'll add this as a warlock subclass in my games for sure. In fact, I just did exactly this. Thank you.

xyianth
2014-08-28, 10:45 PM
While I love this idea, and heartily approve of the idea of using the basic warlock model for this, I see a number of issues.

Awesome, thanks for the interest!


This class does not stray far enough from that basic warlock model, and seems to be barely a class of its own. Outside of the patrons, invocations, and spell lists, there is almost no difference between the classes.

So other than the casting progression, and hit points, everything is different, but not different enough? I think I understand what you mean, but I am not sure I agree. The purpose of this was to recreate the feel of the Dragonfire Adept from 3.5, which was essentially a dragon-flavored warlock. That said, this certainly could be viewed as an alternate patron/pact combination for the warlock class as opposed to a class unto itself.


Also, the patrons are far, far too similar. I would recommend something like this:
Make the scale armor a default class feature, along with the breath weapon. These two features include the lines "the color of your scales is determined by your Draconic patron" and "the energy type of your breath weapon is determined by the color of you scales, as shown in this table." (And the patrons say why colors you can pick).
Do the same with the second breath weapon damage type.

I do agree on this point, and admit that it was a bit of laziness on my part to come up with more features for the two patrons. :smallredface: I'll try and think of some other things for the patron features and move the commonalities back into the main class chassis.


My biggest recommendation is this: cut down on the spellcasting, and add more breath-boosting abilities, like the original DfA. Make this guy's casting be to a paladin or ranger's what a warlock's is to a wuzard's, and give this guy more cool dragon powers to make up for it.

Err, are we looking at the same Dragonfire Adept from 3.5? DFAs got 6 breath effects and 8 invocations over 20 levels. Warlocks got 12 invocations (which had to include shapes and essences if they wanted them) and the ability to use UMD really well. Aside from the UMD thing, the at-will invocation casting basically balanced out with the warlock.

That aside, I do like the idea of cutting back on the spellcasting and increasing the dragon powers to compensate. I'll put together some ideas and post them for consideration. I personally thought they inserted too much casting into the Warlock class anyway, and really only included it to match. As for the paladin/ranger reference, I think I want to keep any spellcasting arcane, but I think you were referring more to the progression and approximate power of those classes than their power source. If so, I think we are in agreement.


Dragon wings should probably ly specify that you grow wings, rather than cast fly. Perhaps say "this invocation is identical to the Draconic sorcerer ability '[whatever it's called]' ."

Yes, that is a much better way to put it. I'll do that right now. Thanks!


Wingstorm doesn't seem all that good. Perhaps it should be omnidirectional?

Well, I don't have any real objection to the omnidirectional bit, but consider this: it is a bonus action, which is essentially free for most of your turns. It acts effectively as a no-save slow effect on the enemies movement toward you, it can knockback creatures opening up coordinated opportunity attacks with team members, and it disperses clouds thereby acting as a decent defense against nasty spells like stinking cloud and cloudkill. I'm definitely not suggesting that it is so good that every DFA will take it, but it does have its uses. Although if I change it to omnidirectional, I think I have to reduce the range somewhat, a 60 foot burst might be a little much. :smalleek:

Thanks for the comments, I definitely have some additional thinking to do.


I'll add this as a warlock subclass in my games for sure. In fact, I just did exactly this. Thank you.

Thanks, I'm happy you like it!

chando
2015-07-15, 04:21 PM
I really like this class, and have came back to check it from time to time.
I'm thinking of allowing it to my players in case one of the PC die. It seems pretty balanced, but has the OP or anyone else actually used it in game? Any sugestions or changes that you guys have made?

:smallsmile:

xyianth
2015-07-16, 04:14 AM
I really like this class, and have came back to check it from time to time.
I'm thinking of allowing it to my players in case one of the PC die. It seems pretty balanced, but has the OP or anyone else actually used it in game? Any sugestions or changes that you guys have made?

:smallsmile:

There was another thread by juanmaj0027 that discussed a slightly modified version of this class and gave a few comments and suggestions based on playing it: link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?407572-Dragonfire-Adept-5e-Handbook-%28homebrew-revised%29). I think it would be worth reading through it if you are interested.

chando
2015-07-19, 03:44 PM
There was another thread by juanmaj0027 that discussed a slightly modified version of this class and gave a few comments and suggestions based on playing it: link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?407572-Dragonfire-Adept-5e-Handbook-%28homebrew-revised%29). I think it would be worth reading through it if you are interested.

Thanks! exactly what I was looking for :D

Kaldur_Rahm
2015-10-18, 11:31 PM
I think that the breath damage should be the same as the eldritch blast cantrip, and that their should be an agonizing blast esque invocation for it. Just my two cents.