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BelGareth
2014-09-05, 04:55 PM
Recently I saw a classless system, but it was disappointing with the whole mechanical side of it. I have always thought a classless system was a great idea, but never saw a good way of doing it, and so, my brewing side of me thought and thought, and I came up with the idea that maybe, just maybe, I could put something together, with something along the lines of what I was looking for.

A way of leveling the play field. Where everyone has the same amount building points, and characters should seemingly be balanced.

Hopefully.

That was the plan, not sure if I got anywhere near it.

I started out by listing down which class had what, and assigning a point to each aspect. Starting with the base of each class, HD, BAB, saves, skill points and proficiency's.

Initially I started out with an interval of 5's between values, hoping that such a big difference would allow the spellcasting abilities to be priced accordingly. While this created a seemingly good scale of how each class is represented (which in and of itself is interesting in this process, as each class is not made the same), it failed to show a distinct difference between the spellcasters and the melee'ers.

So thinking on it, I though the best, easiest way, must be the simplest. Occam's Razor, so to speak.

So I whittled everything down to the lowest points possible, understanding that many of the facets of the class chasis are mere feats, I took that value and applied that to the basic ability of a bonus feat.

So below is what I got from the SRD base classes.

If you go this far, blessings be unto you, and thanks for reading.



CLASSLESS

"You classless heathen."

This is my humble attempt to create a 3.5 classless system.

Every level, each player is given a certain amount of points to pick and choose what characteristics they want when they level. So they can choose what Hit dice, how many skill points, how good their BAB and Saves are, and anything else.

Point system

Points per levelGameplay
14+3 at 1st levelGritty
18+3 at 1st levelLow
22+3 at 1st levelAverage
26+3 at 1st levelHigh
30+3 at 1st levelEpic



At each level, the player is given an amount of Character Points (CP) that they get to spend on what ever they want. At 1st level they get a bonus 3 CP to cover their proficiency's in weapons and armor. Characters do not gain a feat at 1st and every 3rd level as normal, nor do they gain a +1 stat bonus at 4th and every 4 levels beyond that. A maximum of 2 feats may be purchased at every level.


HDPoints
D40
D61
D82
D103
D124



SkillsPointsStarting class skills*
2010
4115
6225
8330


*This includes all knowledge's taken individually, and only applies at first level. The player chooses an amount of class skills up to their maximum.


BABPoints
Poor0
Medium1
Good2



Saves*Points
1 good0
2 good1
3 good2


*Player chooses the good saves at every level.


Weapon Proficiency'sPoints
None0
Simple1
Martial2
Monk Weapons*2


* = This includes all simple weapons.


Armor Proficiency'sPoints
None0
Light*1
Medium*2
Heavy**3


* Includes shields
** Does not include Tower shield.

Weapon and Armor proficiency's include the previous iteration, as in, Martial weapon proficiency's includes simple weapon proficiency's, so there is no need to take both. In addition, these are only required to be taken at 1st level, however, if you are upgrading at a later level, you may simply purchase the ability like normal.



ClassPointsTotal with class abilities
Barbarian1218
Bard832
Cleric828
Druid829
Fighter1113
Monk725
Paladin1123
Ranger1023
Rogue713
Sorcerer021
Wizard022






AbilityPointsSpecial
1 cantrip0.5You gain 1 cantrip known and 1 cantrip spell slot.

Prepared
1 spell learned2.5You gain 1 spell in your spellbook of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 3 spell's of a lower level.
1 Spell per day5You gain 1 spell slot up to the maximum spell level you are able to cast, as long as you are able to cast at least 3 spell's of a lower level.

Spontaneous
1 spell known5You gain 1 spell known of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 3 spell's of a lower level.
1 Spell per day2.5You gain 1 spell slot up to the maximum spell level you are able to cast, as long as you are able to cast at least 3 spell's of a lower level.


The maximum spell level you are able to learn and cast is limited to 1/2 your character level.

When you gain your 1st cantrip or orison, you must choose a mental statistic, this determines your bonus spells per day and the DC's of your spells.

You may not qualify for arcane spells with divine spells and vice versa. If you want to know both arcane and divine, you must purchase separate spell lists.




AbilityPointsSpecial
Detect Magic Invocation2
1 Invocation known*6You gain 1 Invocation of any grade that you are able to cast, as long as you know 3 invocations of a lesser grade.


* = If this is your first Invocation, you learn 1 Least invocation.

The maximum grade of invocation you can cast is limited to the following:


LevelGrade
1-5Least
7-10Lesser
11-15Greater
16-20Dark





AbilityPointsSpecial
1 Infusion known*1You gain 1 infusion known of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 1 infusion of a lower level.
1 Infusion per day3You gain 1 infusion per day of any level that you can cast, as long as you can cast at least 1 infusion of a lower level.
+1 level of craft Reserve3


* = If this is your first Infusion, you learn 1 1st level infusion.

The maximum level infusion you can learn is limited to the following:


LevelMax level Infusion
1-21st
3-42nd
5-73rd
8-104th
11-135th
14-206th





AbilityPointsSpecial
Warblade Recovery system & readied maneuvers
1 maneuver or stance known3You gain 1 maneuver or stance known of any level that you can learn from the Warblade list of disciplines, as long as you know at least 2 maneuvers or stances of a lower level.
Crusader Recovery system & readied maneuvers*
1 maneuver or stance known2.5You gain 1 maneuver or stance known of any level that you can learn from the Crusader list of disciplines, as long as you know at least 2 maneuvers or stances of a lower level.
Swordsage Recovery system & readied maneuvers
1 maneuver or stance known2You gain 1 maneuver or stance known of any level that you can learn from the Swordsage list of disciplines, as long as you know at least 2 maneuvers or stances of a lower level.

* = Until you have a total of 3 known maneuvers, you maneuvers are only usable 1/encounter.

The maximum maneuver or stance level you are able to learn is limited to 1/2 your character level.




AbilityPointsRequirementSpecial
Soul Binding (1 Vestige)5May take again at 8th, 14th & 20th levels.
Soul Binding level +12Soul Binding (1 Vestige)Determines the level of vestige you can bind.*


* = See ToM pg 9



Things to do

Base Classes
Barbarian
Bard
Cleric
Druid
Fighter
Monk
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer
Wizard

Archivist
Artificer
Beguiler
Binder
Dragon Shaman
Dragonfire Adept
Dread Necromancer
Duskblade
Factotum
Favored Soul
Healer
Hexblade
Knight
Marshal
Ninja
Samurai
Shaman
Shadowcaster
Shugenja
Sohei
Spellthief
Spirit Shaman
Swashbuckler
Truenamer
Warlock
Warmage
Wu Jen

Incarnate
Soulborn
Totemist

Crusader
Swordsage
Warblade

Ardent
Divine Mind
Erudite
Lurk
Psion
Psychic Rogue
Psychic Warrior
Souknife
Wilder

Prestige Classes
Bleh, too much to do to think about these

Helping
If you would like to help, below are the guidelines that I am using:


Anything that can be replicated with a feat costs 1 (which just reminded me to update something)
Anything that is slightly more powerful than a feat is 2 (like Countersong, and Trackless step)
Anything that is a solid class ability is a 4 (like Aura of courage, and Wild shape)
ACF's that replace an ability, cost the same as the replaced ability.
Abilities that replace a spell slot, cost the same.
ACF's that grant other class abilities should be ignored.



UA = Unearthed Arcana
CA = Complete Arcane
CC = Complete Champion
CM = Complete Mage
CS = Cityscape, (online web enhancement)
CV = Champions of Valor, (online web enhancement)
CW = Complete Warrior
DrM = Dragon Magic
DS = Dungeonscape
DU = Drow of the Underdark
EC = "Expanded Classes" (online: 1, 2, 3, 4)
ECS = Eberron Campaign Setting[/i[
ECR = Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
EoE = Exemplars of Evil - thanks Nanshork
FB = Frostburn
MoE = Magic of Eberron
MoI = Magic of Incarnum
PHB 2 = Players Handbook II
PlH = Planar Handbook
RD = Races of Destiny
RDr = Races of the Dragon
RE = Races of Eberron
RS = Races of Stone
RW = Races of the Wild
SSt = Sandstorm
SW = Stormwrack



2014-10-24, 2:17 PM - Added Maneuvers, Crusader, Warblade, & Swordsage.

2014-10-24, 11:48 AM - Changed spontaneous line x abilities from 2 points to 4.

2014-10-24, 9:24 AM - Fixed the Artificer, tweaked spells known/pre day requirement from 1 to 3. Removed bonus spells from Domain ability.

2014-10-22, 3:22 PM - Added Warlock, Wu Jen, Warmage, Dread Necromancer, Archivist, Dragonfire Adept, & Artificer. Added Invocations.

2014-10-22, 11:13 AM - Moved around some tables, added the Duskblade, Dragon Shaman, Beguiler, and Knight (courtesy of Ebon Dragon), changed AC bonus from 4 to 2 points.

2014-10-18, 2:28 PM - Updated spellcasting system.

2014-10-17, 3:11 PM - Finished PHB classes and ACF's, updated Master list.

2014-10-17, 10:43 AM - Added Fighter ACF's, updated Master list.

2014-10-17, 10:14 AM - Added monk weapon list in proficiencies.

2014-10-17, 09:52 AM - Added List of things to do.

2014-10-16, 03:44 PM - Finished Druid ACF's and added them, updated Master list. Started working on Fighter.

2014-10-16, 03:07 PM - Changed spellcasting to be truly classes, without predetermined spell lists, and more streamlined.

2014-10-15, 01:00 PM - Added, Barbarian, Bard and Cleric ACF's, started working on Druid.

2014-09-05, 02:55 PM - Created the project.



Cost 2
Learn New Prepared Spell known
Benefit: Gain 1 spell known, up to the maximum spell level you may learn based on your level.
Prerequisite: Your main casting stat must be10 plus the spell level learned or more. If the spell is higher than 1st level, you must already know 2 spells of the previous level. Additionally, you gain +1 caster level, up to the maximum of your HD.
Special: The new spell can be either Divine or Arcane, chosen at the time of taking this ability. If you are able to cast either, you must adhere to the prerequisites for each type. (You cannot qualify for a 2nd level divine spell with 2 arcane spells known).
1st level taken: If this is the first level taking this ability. You must choose a mental statistic to derive your spell DCís, bonus spells, and known spell limit. This cannot be changed. This only provides the knowledge of the spell, not the ability to cast it. This effectively gives you the ability to use spell trigger activated magic items, and take the New Prepared Spell Slot ability. Additionally, this gives you the ability to scribe spells into a spell book (but not the spell book), and the ability to prepare and cast read magic 4/day.

Cost 3
Learn New Spontaneous Spell known
Benefit: Gain 1 spell known, up to the maximum spell level you may learn based on your level.
Prerequisite: Your main casting stat must be10 plus the spell level learned or more. If the spell is higher than 1st level, you must already know 2 spells of the previous level. Additionally, you gain +1 caster level, up to the maximum of your HD.
Special: The new spell can be either Divine or Arcane, chosen at the time of taking this ability. If you are able to cast either, you must adhere to the prerequisites for each type. (You cannot qualify for a 2nd level divine spell with 2 arcane spells known).
1st level taken: If this is the first level taking this ability. You must choose a mental statistic to derive your spell DCís, bonus spells, and known spell limit. This cannot be changed. This only provides the knowledge of the spell, not the ability to cast it. This effectively gives you the ability to use spell trigger activated magic items, and take the New Spontaneous Spell Slot ability. Additionally, this gives you the ability to cast detect magic 4/day.

Cost 3
New Prepared Spell Slot
Benefit: Gain 1 spell known, up to the maximum spell level you may learn based on your level.
Prerequisite: Your main casting stat must be10 plus the spell level learned or more. If the spell is higher than 1st level, you must already know 2 spells of the previous level. Additionally, you gain +1 caster level, up to the maximum of your HD.
Special: The new spell can be either Divine or Arcane, chosen at the time of taking this ability. If you are able to cast either, you must adhere to the prerequisites for each type. (You cannot qualify for a 2nd level divine spell with 2 arcane spells known).
1st level taken: If this is the first level taking this ability. You must choose a mental statistic to derive your spell DCís, bonus spells, and known spell limit. This cannot be changed. This only provides the knowledge of the spell, not the ability to cast it. This effectively gives you the ability to use spell trigger activated magic items, and take the New Prepared Spell Slot ability. Additionally, this gives you the ability to scribe spells into a spell book (but not the spell book), and the ability to prepare and cast read magic 4/day.

BelGareth
2014-09-05, 04:56 PM
AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Bonus Feat1
+1 Ability4




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Damage Reduction 1/-47th levelMay take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 7th.
Fast Movement2Does not stack
Greater Rage4Rage 3/day
Improved Uncanny dodge4Uncanny Dodge
Indomitable Will414th level, & Greater Rage
Mighty Rage420th level & Tireless Rage
Tireless Rage4Greater Rage
Rage 1/day4May take an additional time for every 4 levels you have.
Trap Sense +123rd levelMay take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 3rd.
Uncanny Dodge42nd level
Berserker Strength4Counts as normal rage for prereqs, (PHB 2, p 33)
Incarnum Speed2(MOI pg 43)
Incarnum Defense46th level(MOI pg 43)
Incarnum Rage4Rage 3/day(MOI pg 43)
Fast Charge2(CV pg 40)
Awesome Charge42nd level(CV pg 40)
Raging Vigor46th level(CV pg 40)
Ferocity 1/day4May take an additional time for every 4 levels you have.
Greater Ferocity4Ferocity 3/day(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a))
Shifting Stance414th level, & Greater Ferocity(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a))
Relentless Ferocity4Greater Ferocity(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a))
Unstoppable Ferocity420th level & Relentless Ferocity(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a))
Mountain Rage 1/day4(RS pg 150) counts as normal rage for prereqs. May take an additional time for every 4 levels you have.
Lesser Fortification42nd level
Damage Reduction 2/Adamantium46th levelMay take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 7th.
Reckless Charge42nd level(RD pg 159)
Insightful Rage24th level, Rage feature(RD pg 159)
Two Handed Strike1(RD pg 159)
Portal Sense23rd level(PlH pg 28)
Menacing Rage4Rage 3/day(PlH pg 28)
Spell Sense +123rd level(CM pg 35) May take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 3rd.
Spiritual Totem: Bear4(CC pg 46)
Spiritual Totem: Eagle2(CC pg 46)
Spiritual Totem: Fox2(CC pg 46)
Spiritual Totem: Lion4(CC pg 46)
Spiritual Totem: Wolf2(CC pg 46)
Streetfighter47th level(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a))
Streetfighter, Improved4Streetfighter(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)) (counts as 10th level ability)
Streetfighter, Advanced 4Improved Streetfighter(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)) (counts as 13th level ability)
Streetfighter, Greater 4Advanced Streetfighter(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)) (counts as 16th level ability)
Streetfighter, Master 4Greater Streetfighter(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)) (counts as 19th level ability)
Spiritual Totem, Improved: Bear4Spiritual Totem: Bear(CC pg 46)
Spiritual Totem, Improved: Eagle2Spiritual Totem: Eagle(CC pg 46)
Spiritual Totem, Improved: Fox2Spiritual Totem: Fox(CC pg 46)
Spiritual Totem, Improved: Lion4Spiritual Totem: Lion(CC pg 46)
Spiritual Totem, Improved: Wolf2Spiritual Totem: Wolf(CC pg 46)
Trapkiller4(DS pg 8)
Uncanny Bravery42nd level(DrM pg 14)
View Spirit World2(CC pg 46)
Whirling Frenzy 1/day4(UA, p66) counts as normal rage for prereqs. May take an additional time for every 4 levels you have.
Greater Whirling Frenzy4Whirling Frenzy 3/day(UA, p66)
Mighty Whirling Frenzy420th level & Tireless Rage(UA, p66)




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Bardic Knowledge4
Countersong2
Evasion42nd level
Fascinate2
Aura of Courage44th level
Inspire Competence2
Inspire Courage +14May take an additional time at 8th level and for every additional 6 levels thereafter.
Inspire Greatness49th level
Inspire Heroics415th level
Mass Suggestion418th level
Song of Freedom412th level
Suggestion46th level
Bardic Knack4(PHB 2, pg 35)
Bardic Sage4Spellcasting(UA, pg 49)
Inspire Defiance 2(RS pg 147)
Phantasmal Song44th level(RS pg 147)
Healing Hymn2(CC, pg 47)
Hymn of Fortification2(CC, pg 47)
Inspire Awe44th level(DrM, pg 13)
Inspire Hatred49th level(EoE, pg 21)
Inspire Turning2(ECR, pg 206)
Loresong4(DS, pg 8)
Mimicking Song2(DS, pg 8)
Planar Inspiration2(PlH, pg 29)
Planar Dissonance46th level(PlH, pg 29)
Planar Discordance412th level(PlH, pg 29)
Repel Domination46th level(ECR, pg 206)
Spellbreaker Song2(CM, pg 35)
Inspire Arcana2(RDr, pg 110)
Undead Bardic Knowledge4(ECR, pg 206)




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Turn undead4
Domain2Does not grant bonus spells.
Channel Incarnum4(MoI, pg 42)
Soultouched Weapon24th level(MoI, pg 42)
Distribute Incarnum29th level(MoI, pg 42)
Spontaneous inflict/cure spells4
Blasphemous Incantation4Evil(EoE, p 20)
Destroy Undead4(ECR, pg 206)
Divine Counter Spell4(CM, pg 33)
Divine Magician2(CM, pg 33)
Divine Restoration2(DS, pg 9)
Turn Energy4(RDr, pg 106)
Energy Barrier35th level(RDr, pg 106)
Energy Sustenance109th level(RDr, pg 106)
Drow Cleric (rebuke Vermin)4(DU, pg 57)
Smite Giants4(RS. Pg 146)
Hammer Specialist44th level(RS. Pg 146)
Eathern Spell power58th level(RS. Pg 146)
Planar Dismissal44th level(PlH, pg 30)
Planar Domain47th level(PlH, pg 30)
Planar Banishment411th level(PlH, pg 30)
Pool of Healing5(CC, pg 47)
Positive Healing2(ECR, pg 207)
Spontaneous Faith healing44th level(CV, pg 47)
Imbue with spell like ability56th level(CV, pg 47)
Turn Invader49th level(CV, pg 47)
Air Master3(RW, pg 160)
Air Summoning Talent23rd level(RW, pg 160)
Open the Wind Gate27th level(RW, pg 160)
Rebuke Dragons4(DrM, pg 14)
Spontaneous Domain Casting4(PHB 2, pg 37)
True Daylight2(ECR, pg 207)




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
A thousand Faces412th level
Wild Empathy2
Wild Shape45th levelMay take an additional time at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, & 18th levels.
Animal Companion2
Wild Shape: elemental416th level & Wild shape 4/dayMay take an additional time at 18th & 20th levels.
Wild Shape: huge4Wild Shape 4/day
Wild Shape: huge elemental420th level & Wild Shape: elemental
Wild Shape: plant4Wild Shape 4/day
Wild Shape: tiny4Wild Shape 4/day
Nature Sense1
Resist Natures Lure24th level
Woodland Stride2
Timeless body415th level
Trackless Step2
Venom Immunity49th level
Aqautic Druid2(SW, pg 50)
City Shape4(CS, Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
City-Soul416th level & Wild shape 4/day(CS, Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Crowd Walker2(CS, Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Aspect of the Dragon4(DrM, pg 11)
Drow Druid4(DU, pg 58)
Elemental Companion2(CM, pg 33)
Go to ground2(CS, Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Spontaneous Summon natures ally4
Bully Animal24th level(RD, pg 159)
Augmented Natures Allie46th level(RD, pg 159)
Iron Constitution24th level(CS, Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Elemental Bond2(RS, pg 151)
Earth Companion26th level(RS, pg 151)
Earth Wildshape412th level(RS, pg 151)
Phynxkin Companion2(DrM, pg 13)
Resist Planar Might24th level(PlH, pg 31)
Planar Tolerance49th level(PlH, pg 31)
Counter Summoning413th level(PlH, pg 31)
Root Walker2(DS, pg 9)
Sandskimmer2(SSt, pg 47)
Shapeshifter4This may be taken and additional time at 5th, 8th, 12th and 16th .(PHB, pg 39)
Beast Spirit2(RE, pg 126)
Reckless Nature24th level(RE, pg 126)
Wild Shifting4Shifter Race, 5th levelActs as wild shape, (RE, og 126)
Spontaneous Affliction4(EoE, pg 21)
Spontaneous Rejuvenation4(PHB 2, pg 39)
Urban companion2(CS, Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Urbane Sense1(CS, Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Voice of the City2(CS, Web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a)
Waste Vermin Wildshape410th level(SSt, pg 47)




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Fighter Training1Counts as a Figher level for feat requirements.
Armor of God1(CC, pg 48)
Aligned Strike1(CC, pg 48)
Counter Attack1(PHB 2, pg 45)
Dancing Feint22nd level(CV, pg 38)
Combat Dancing28th level(CV, pg 38)
Dragonscale Husk3(DrM, pg 12)
Drow fighter1((DU, pg 58)
Dungeon Crasher4(DS, g 10)
Axe Focus1(RS, pg 146)
Dwarf Racial Foes12nd level, Dwarf race(RS, pg 146)
Heavy Armor expertise18th level, Heavy armor proficieny(RS, pg 146)
Elusive Attack1(PHB 2, pg 44)
Blade Focus1(RD, pg 157)
Main-Gauche12nd level(RD, pg 157)
Confusing Banter16th level(RD, pg 157)
Spear Focus1(RDr, pg 108)
Overpowering attack1(PHB 2, pg 45)
Planar Study14th level(PlH, pg 32)
Align Puissance18th level(PlH, pg 32)
Aura of Stability112th level(PlH, pg 32)
Encumbered Flight2Flight speed(RW, pg 161)
Airborne Strike14th level, Flight speed(RW, pg 161)
Fast Flight18th level, Flight speed(RW, pg 161)
Resolute1(CC, pg 48)
Battle Hardened1(RE, pg 130)
Body as Weapon14th level, Warforged race(RE, pg 130)
Extended Intimidation25th level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)
Swift Demoralization29th level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a)




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Abundant Step212th level
AC bonus2
Bonus Feat1
Diamond Body211th level
Diamond Soul4Diamond Body
Empty Body419th level
Flurry of blows4May take an additional 2 time's for every additional 4 levels you have. (5th & 9th levels)
Greater flurry4Flurry of blows x 3
Ki strike: (alignment)2Ki strike: Magic
Ki strike: adamantine2Ki strike: (alignment)Choose one alignment aspect of your own.
Ki strike: magic2Unarmed Strike
Perfect Self420th level & Timeless body
Quivering Palm415th level & Stunning Fist feat
Tongue of the Sun and the Moon417th level
Still mind2
Timeless body415th level
Unarmed Strike4Improved Unarmed strike FeatMay take an additional time for every 4 levels you have above 4th.
Unarmored speed bonus43rd levelMay take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 3rd.
Wholeness of body47th level
slow fall 20 ft22nd levelMay take an additional time for every 2 levels you have above 4th, granting an additional +10 ft.
Aquatic Monk22nd levelMay take an additional time for every 2 levels you have above 4th, granting an additional +10 ft. (SW, pg 50)
Darkivision2(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a))
Shadow Blend47th level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a))
Walk the Shadows212th level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a))
Decisive Attack4May take an additional 3 time's for every additional 4 levels you have. (5th, 9th, 11th levels)
Draconic Fist1(DrM pg 11)
Feign Death42nd level(EoE, pg 21)
Size Matters Not47th level(RW, pg 158)
Blur of Motion16th level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a))
The Harder they Fall49th level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a))
Holy/Evil Strike24th level & Unarmed strikeCounts as Ki strike: magic for prerequisites(CC, pg 48)
Invisible Fist42nd levelMay take an additional time at 9th level. (EoE, pg 21)
Psychic Insight4(RE, pg 124)
Augment Wholness of Body27th level(RE, pg 124)
Purifying Flame1(CV, pg 46)
Resistance to Energy 523rd levelChoose one ernergy type. May take again every 3 levels for +5 or new energy type.
Fire Stride212th level, Resistance to fire 5(CV, pg 46)
Aligned Soul4Diamond Body, 13th levelChoose one of your alignments, gain SR CL+15 vs opposed alignment.
Ki Strike (Cold Iron)2Ki strike (aligned)
Prayerful Meditation2(CC, pg 48)
Spine Strike2Skarn Race(MoI, pg 47)
Defensive Insight45th level(MoI, pg 47)
Soulwarp Strike1(CM, pg 34)
Spell Reflection42nd level(CM, pg 35)
Wall Walker22nd levelMay take an additional time for every 2 levels you have above 4th, granting an additional +10 ft. (DS, pg 11)
Standing Jump2(DS, pg 10)




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos2Choose one opposed alignment to your own.
Divine Grace42nd level
Divine Health43rd level
Lay on Hands2
Remove Disease 1/week26th level
Smite (alignment) 1/day2Choose one alignment aspect opposite to your own. You may take this an additional time for every 5 levels.
Special Mount25th level
Turn undead4
Aquatic Paladin25th level(Sw, pg 51)
Everbright Blessing43rd level(CV, pg 35)
Valiant Rescue44th level(CV, pg 35)
Binding Oath26th level(CV, pg 35)
Charging Smite25th level Smite (alignment)(PHB 2, pg 53)
Bird of Prey2(CV, pg 36)
Horus-Re's Glory512th level(CV, pg 36)
Curse Breaker26th level(CM pg 33)
Detect Undead2(ECR, pg 208)
Divine Counter spell4(CM, pg 33)
Divine Spirit25th level(DS, pg 11)
Detect Dragonblood2(RDr, pg 108)
Bahamuts Blessings2(RDr, pg 108)
Fearless special Mount25th level(RDr, pg 108)
Drakkensteed Mount25th level(DrM, pg 13)
Ranged Smite2(RW, pg 155)
Aura of Freedom44th level(RW, pg 155)
Aura of Courage44th level
Unicorn Mount45th level, any good alignment(RW, pg 155)
Corpsestrike2(CV, pg 39)
Eternal Vigor44th level(CV, pg 39)
Defend the Weak44th level(CV, pg 42)
Expanded Healing210th level(CV, pg 42)
Detect Magic2(CV, pg 43)
Enemy of Strife24th level(CV, pg 43)
Restore the Weave26th level(CV, pg 43)
Righteous Fury2You may take this an additional time for every 5 levels. (RD, pg 160)
Aura of Awe43rd level(RD, pg 160)
Remove Fatigue26th level(RD, pg 160)
Censure Devil24th level(CV, pg 44)
Zone of Truth26th level(CV, pg 44)
Firemane Aura43rd level(CV, pg 44)
Wild Fighting44th level(CV, pg 44)
Flying Lion25th level(CV, pg 44)
Spellshatter26th level(CV, pg 45)
Delay Poison26th level(CV, pg 45)
Pelors Blessing4(ECR, pg 208)
Celestial Mount26th level, Mount feature(PlH, pg 33)
Alignment Purity210th level(PlH, pg 33)
Brilliant Strategy42nd level(CV, pg 48)
Enduring Personality42nd level(CV, pg 49)
Heroism26th level(CV, pg 49)
Heroic Rapture612th level(CV, pg 49)
Stand Fast2(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a))
Vigilant Aid43rd level(CV, pg 51)
Awesome Smite44th level, Smite feature(CV, pg 51)
Warded Special Mount2Mount feature(ECR, pg 208)
Smite Construct2You may take this an additional time for every 5 levels. (RE, pg 130)
Durable Will42nd level(RE, pg 130)
Immunity to Stunning43rd level Warforged(RE, pg 130)
Tougher than Small43rd level(CV, pg 51)
Distracting Presence43rd level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a))
Commanding Presence210th level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a))




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Animal Companion (Druid)2
Camouflage213th level
Combat Style2
Combat style mastery211th level
Favored Enemy4May take an additional time for every 5 levels you have.
Hide in plain sight417th level
Improved Combat Style26th level
Woodland Stride2
Swift tracker2Track Feat
Trackless Step2
Arcane Hunter4(CM, pg 32)
Aqautic Ranger2(SW, pg 51)
Celestial Slayer4Evil aligned(EoE, pg 20)
Distracting Attack2(PHB 2, pg 55)
Elven Hound Companion24th level(RW, pg 155)
Strongheart Slayer410th level(RW, pg 155)
Urban Tracking1(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a))
Burrowing Animal Companion24th level(RS, pg 149)
Hidden Stalker4(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a))
Subterranean Stride2(RDr, pg 109)
Planar Ranger2(UA, pg 55)
Planar Animal Companion24th level(PlH, pg 34)
Portal Intuition2(PlH, pg 34)
Planar Tracking2Track feat(PlH, pg 34)
Rival Organization4(CS, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20070228a))
Sandskimmer2(SSt, pg 49)
Walk in Silence1(CV, pg 49)
Bane Weapon26th level(CV, pg 49)
Portal Analyses28th level(CV, pg 49)
Share Shifting24th level, Shifter Race(RE, pg 128)
Enhanced Shifting49th level, Shifter Race(RE, pg 128)
Weavespeak13rd level(CV, pg 50)
Spiritual Connection2(CC, pg 50)
Spiritual Guide2(CC, pg 50)
Waste Hunter4(SSt, pg 49)




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Bonus Feat1
Crippling Strike4Sneak attack +5d6
Defensive Roll410th level
Improved Evasion4Evasion
Opportunist4Sneak attack +5d6
Skill Mastery410th level
Slippery Mind410th level
Sneak Attack +1d64May take an additional time for every 2 levels you have above 1st.
Trapfinding2
Antiquarian2(CC, pg 51)
Breathstealer4Sneak Attack +5d6(DrM, pg 11)
Social Intuition4(RE, pg 121)
Deaths Ruin2Sneak Attack +1d6(CC, pg 51)
Trap Sense +123rd levelMay take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 3rd.
Disruptive Attack42nd level, Sneak Attack +1d6(PHB 2, pg 57)
Poison Use2
Friends Evasion4(CC, pg 51)
Frostfell Terrain Mastery4(FB, pg 45)
Mettle42nd level
Mettle of Mountains22nd level(RS, pg 152)
Wild Sense23rd level(RS, pg 152)
Ranged Sneak Attack4(RW, pg 160)
Thiefs Luck23rd level(RW, pg 160)
Sniping Mastery410th level(RW, pg 160)
Holy Stalker4Sneak Attack +5d6(CC, pg 51)
Lightbringer Penetrating Strike4Sneak Attack +1d6(ECR, pg 208)
Penetrating Strike4Sneak Attack +1d6(DS, pg 13)
Breach Sense46th level(PlH, pg 34)
Slip the bonds410th level(PlH, pg 34)
Quick Fingers2(DS, pg 13)
Improved Flanking2Sneak Attack +1d6(MoI, pg 47)
Fortunate Reflexes210th level(MoI, pg 47)
Spell Sense2(CM, pg 35)
Uncanny Bravery4(DrM, pg 14)




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Bonus Feat1
Aquatic Familiar1Spell caster(SW, pg 51)
Divine Companion1(CC, pg 51)
Arcane Insight2DragonbloodedCan be taken an additional 2 times for every 3 levels above 1st (4th and 7th) (RDr, pg 107)
Drakken Familiar1Spell caster(DrM, pg 12)
Arcane Earthblood2(RS, pg 161)
Power of Stone24th level(RS, pg 161)
Earth Meditation47th level(RS, pg 161)
Frostfell Familiar1(FB, pg 45)
Metamagic Specialist4spell caster(PHB 2, pg 61)
Force Charged Energy2spell caster, 5th level(PlH, pg 35)
Extraplanar Spell Penetration4Spell caster, 9th level(PlH, pg 35)
Spontaneous Planar Summoning4spell caster, 13th level(PlH, pg 35)
Air Elemental Familiar2spell caster(RW, pg 162)
Spell on the wing2spell caster and flight speed(RW, pg 162)
Spell Shield2spell caster(DS, pg 13)
Wasteland familiar1spell caster(SSt, pg 49)




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Bonus Feat1
School Specialization2Prepared arcane caster
Dual Specialization2(RE, pg 123)
Morphic Familiar2Familiar(RE, pg 123)
Override Transmutation2Transmutation Specialist(RE, pg 123)
Domain Granted Power2(CC, pg 53)
Drow Wizard4Prepared arcane caster(DU, pg 59)
Generalist Wizardry4Prepared arcane caster(RW, pg 158)
Natural Link2Familiar(RW, pg 158)
Focused Specialist4Prepared arcane caster(CM, pg 34)
Indisdious Illusions410th level(RS, pg 148)
Reduce Armor Hindrances44th level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a))
Familiar Mount4Mount and Familiar features, 5th level(CV, web (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060327a))
Immediate Magic4(School) Specialist(PHB 2, pg 68)
Unimpeded Magic2Spell caster, 6th level(PlH, pg 36)
Planar Spellcasting2spell caster, 10th level(PlH, pg 36)
Enhanced Magic4spell caster, 14th level(PlH, pg 36)
Spontaneous Divination4Divination Specialist(CC, pg 53)
Resistance to Energy2Abjuration Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Aura of Protection25th level, Abjuration specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Spontaneous Dispelling45th level, Abjuration specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm)), may be taken again at 11th level.
Rapid Summoning2Conjuration Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Enhanced Summoning1Conjuration Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm)), may be taken again at 5th and 10th level.
Spontaneous Summoning4Conjuration Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Enhanced Awareness2Divination Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Prescience2Divination Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm)), may be taken again for every 5 levels. (5th, 10th, 15th & 20th)
Cohort16th level, Enchanter Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Social Proficiency1Enchanter Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm)), may be taken again for every 5 additional levels beyond 5th. (5th, 10th, 15th and 20th)
Extended Enchantments2Enchanter Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Energy Affinity2Evoker Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Energy Substitution25th level, Evoker Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm)), may be taken again for every 5 additional levels beyond 5th. (5th, 10th, 15th and 20th)
Overcome Resistance2Evoker Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm)), may be taken again for every 2 additional levels beyond 1st. (1st, 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, 15th, 17th, & 19th)
Chains of Disbelief2Illusionist Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Shadow Shaper1Illusionist Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm)), may be taken again for every 5 levels. (5th, 10th, 15th & 20th)
Illusion Mastery2Illusionist Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Skeletal Minion1Necromancy Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Undead Apotheosis25th level, Necromancy Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm)), may be taken again at 10th & 20th levels)
Enhanced Undead2Necromancy Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Enhanced Attribute1Transmuter Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Spell Versatility2Transmuter Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))
Transmutable Memory2Transmuter Specialist(UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/specialistWizardVariants.htm))







AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Armored Mage2Arcane CastingCan be taken one additional time at fourth level, provides medium and shields
Arcane Attunement4Counts as knowing and being able to cast 0th level arcane spells for the purpose of prerequisites
Arcane Channeling43rd level, Arcane spellsCan be taken one additional time at 13th level
Quick Cast45th levelCan be taken once every 5 subsequent levels
Spell Power16th level




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Surprise Casting2May be taken again at 6th level
Cloaked Casting22nd levelMay be taken again at every 6th level after 2nd, maximum 20th.
Armored Mage2Arcane CastingCan be taken one additional time at fourth level, provides medium and shields




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Draconic Aura +14Not including aura's known themselves. May be taken again at 5th level and once every 5 subsequent levels.
1 Draconic Aura Known1Draconic Aura +1May be taken multiple times
Totem Dragon1
Draconic Adaptation1Totem DragonMay be selected one additinal time at 13th level
Breath Weapon (1d4 rounds)4Totem Dragon, 4th level
Draconic Resolve24th level
Touch of Vitality26th levelMay be selected again at 11th level
Natural Armour +127th levelMay be selected again every 5 subsequent levels
Energy Immunity4Totem Dragon, 9th level
Commune with Dragon Spirit414th level
Draconic Wings4Totem Dragon, Energy Immunity




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Fighting Challenge +12May be chosen again at every 6 levels beyond 1st, increasing the bonus by +1. Acts like Knights challenge for intents and purposes.
Shield Block22nd levelMay be chosen again at every 9 level beyond 2nd
Bulwark of Defense43rd level
Armour Mastery24th levelMay be chosen again at 9th level
Test of Mettle24th level, Fighting Challenge
Vigilant Defender15th level
Shield Ally26th level
Call to Battle28th level, Fighting Challenge
Daunting Challenge212th level, Fighting Challenge
Improved Shield Ally214th level, Shield Ally
Bond of Loyalty214th level, Fighting Challenge
Impetuous Endurance217th level
Loyal Beyond Death420th level, Fighting Challenge







AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Dark Knowledge:Tactics4May take again for every 3 levels (1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th & 18th)
Dark Knowledge:Puissance45th level
Dark Knowledge:Foe48th level
Dark Knowledge:Dread Secret411th level
Dark Knowledge:Foreknowledge414th level
Lore Mastery22nd level
Still Mind44th level




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Charnel Touch2
Lich Body42nd levelMay take again at 7th, 11th & 15th levels.
Negative Energy Burst23rd levelMay take an additional time for every 5 levels beyond 3rd. (8th, 13th & 18th)
Mental Bastion44th levelMay take again at 14th level.
Fear Aura45th level
Scabrous Touch4Charnel Touch, 6th levelMay take again for every additional 5 levels beyond 6th. (11th & 16th)
Undead Mastery4Arcane/Divine Caster
Negative Energy Resistance49th level
Enervating Touch412th level, Charnel Touch

BelGareth
2014-09-05, 04:57 PM
AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Eldritch Blast 1d64May take an additional time at every odd level.
Damage Reduction 1/cold iron43rd levelMay gain an additional time every 4 levels beyond 3rd. (7th, 11th, 15h & 19th)
Deceive Item24th level
Fiendish Resilience28th levelMay take again at 13th level
Energy Resistance410th levelMay take again at 20th level
Imbue Item214th level




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Warmage Edge4Spell caster




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Watchful Spirit1
Spell Secret + Taboo2Spell casterMay take an additional time at 9th and every 3 levels thereafter. (9th, 12th, 15th & 18th)
Elemental Mastery26th level, Spell caster







AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Energy Resistance25thMay be taken again once every 5 subsequent levels
Wings417th




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Sense Elements2



TBA






AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Hexblade's Curse2May be taken once every four levels after 1st
Greater Hexblade's Curse46th level, Hexblade's Curse
Dire Hexblade's Curse419th level, Greater Hexblade's Curse
Aura of Unluck212th levelMay be taken again every four levels after 12th
Dark Companion4PHBII p. 47




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Kai Smite2May be taken again at 7th level and every 5 levels thereafter
Staredown14th level
Mass Staredown210th level, Staredown
Improved Staredown414th level, Mass Staredown
Frightful Prescence220th level




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Insightful Strike4
Dodge Bonus25th levelMay take again for every 5 levels above 5th.(10th, 15th, & 20th)
Shield of Blades25th levelPHBII p. 63
Acrobatic Charge17th level
Improved Flanking18th level
Lucky211th level
Weakening Critical414th level
Wounding Critical419th level
Grace22nd levelMay take again at 11th and 20th levels







AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Breath Weapon 1d6 (at will)4May take an additional time at every odd level.
Breath effect42nd level, Breath weapon (at will)May take an additional time at 5th, 10th, 12th, 15th & 20th level)
Scales +242nd level, Breath weapon (at will)
Scales +128th level, Scales +2May take an additional time at 13thy & 18th levels.
Dragonkin2Dragonblooded
Damage Reduction 2/magic46th levelMay take again at 16th level.
Draconic Immunities419th level, Dragonblooded







AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Artificer Knowledge21 known infusion
Artisan Bonus1
Item creation2
Craft Homonculus14th level
Retain Essence45th level, Craft Reserve
Metamagic Spell Trigger47th level, 1 item creation feat
Metamagic Spell completion411th level, Metamagic Spell Trigger







AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Battle Clarity4
Weapon Aptitude2
Battle Ardor43rd level
Battle Cunning47th level
Battle Skill411th level
Battle Mastery415th level, 2 other Battle abilities
Stance Mastery420th level




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Steely Resolve 54May be taken again at 4th and every 4 levels thereafter. (1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, & 20th)
Furious counterstrike4Steely Resolve 5
Indomitable Soul22nd level
Zealous Surge23rd level




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Quick to Act +12May be taken again at 5th level and every 5 levels thereafter. (1st, 5th, 10th, 15th & 20th)
AC Bonus with light armor42nd level, Light Armor proficiency
Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus)2May take again, choose a different discipline each time.
Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike)44th level, Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus)May take again, choose a different discipline each time.
Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance)48th level, Discipline Focus (Insightful Strike)May take again, choose a different discipline each time.
Sense Magic27th level
Dual Boost 3/day420th level







AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Supress Sign12nd level, Soul Binding
Pact Augmentation32nd level, Soul BindingMay take again at 5th, 10th, 16th and 20th levels.
Soul Guardian46th level, Soul Binding (3rd level pacts)May take again at 9th, 13th, and 19th levels.




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial





AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial

BelGareth
2014-09-05, 04:58 PM
I'm looking to start a playtest once I have all the PHB classes with ACF's done.

If you are interested in that, please post and let me know.

Current Playtest is open (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?377966-Classless-System-Playtest-(3-5-looking-for-players))

Suggested changes

n/a

sajro
2014-10-07, 03:47 AM
I find this system really really interesting, but one problem I have at the moment is, the missing descriptions of the different abilities you can choose from the classes.

Are all of these abilities ment to be found in the books? Because at the moment I am not sure how to find the descriptions.

EDIT:
Just read it all closer and saw that most abilities had a book and page reference, but some doesnt, I know that most of those that doesnt have i PHB abilities but some (Berserkers strength for one) Is from PHB2 and I think you should put in a book and page reference aswell there.

BelGareth
2014-10-07, 01:02 PM
I find this system really really interesting, but one problem I have at the moment is, the missing descriptions of the different abilities you can choose from the classes.

Are all of these abilities ment to be found in the books? Because at the moment I am not sure how to find the descriptions.

EDIT:
Just read it all closer and saw that most abilities had a book and page reference, but some doesnt, I know that most of those that doesnt have i PHB abilities but some (Berserkers strength for one) Is from PHB2 and I think you should put in a book and page reference aswell there.

Thanks!

Anything that doesn't have a source cited, is from the SRD (d20srd.com).

But yeah, there are a few, I'll have to add them when I get some time to work on this again.

Reality Glitch
2014-10-11, 04:51 PM
How are you going to handle Psiconic, Submlime, Incarnum, etc. options?

BelGareth
2014-10-12, 09:44 AM
How are you going to handle Psiconic, Submlime, Incarnum, etc. options?

Just like spellcasting, although they will be worth different amounts, which will probably need some play testing to ensure a balance.

I just haven't gotten there yet.

I'm focusing on the phb classes and their acf's then I'll move to other base classes and cover these subsystems as I go.

And then, maybe monster abilities...

sajro
2014-10-12, 09:53 AM
I was talking with some friends about your system and something confused us a bit:

Can you choose different BAB's at different levels or do you decide in level one which progression ypu want and pay the stated amount every level? same for Saves?

Skills:
So again do you choose an amount per level at level one or can this be changed at every level? Same for HD?

Spellcasting:
Again do you pay the 20 points for 1-9 casting every level or only first?

What about points you dont spend do they transfer to the next level?

BelGareth
2014-10-12, 12:12 PM
I was talking with some friends about your system and something confused us a bit:

Can you choose different BAB's at different levels or do you decide in level one which progression ypu want and pay the stated amount every level? same for Saves?

Skills:
So again do you choose an amount per level at level one or can this be changed at every level? Same for HD?

Spellcasting:
Again do you pay the 20 points for 1-9 casting every level or only first?

What about points you dont spend do they transfer to the next level?

Yep, you choose what you want at every level, except proficiencies, which are only purchased at first level, unless you want to upgrade them.

With spellcasting, if you want new spells known and per day, you must spend the points for it again at that level.

It can get complicated, but it allows for the ultimate expression in create characters.

Edit: yes, you can spend the, as you see fit, and they roll over to next level. I have a character Points based Xp system, where you gain character points instead of xp in the works.

sajro
2014-10-12, 01:05 PM
Then how do you check what you get with bab and saves, if you choose a different than you had last level?

And for spell casting, would it be possible to change the system so you dont have to decide at level one what the highest spell level you want acces to?

EDIT:
MAybe paying a number of points equal to the spell level times the number of spells of that level you can cast extra per day? and a flat cost of 5 points for spellcasting levels in general?
Early levels are cheaper for casters but costs more later on?

Temotei
2014-10-12, 01:47 PM
Yep, you choose what you want at every level, except proficiencies, which are only purchased at first level, unless you want to upgrade them.

Why wouldn't everyone choose 8+Int skill points at 1st level, then, from a mechanical standpoint?

BelGareth
2014-10-15, 03:24 PM
Then how do you check what you get with bab and saves, if you choose a different than you had last level?

And for spell casting, would it be possible to change the system so you dont have to decide at level one what the highest spell level you want acces to?

EDIT:
MAybe paying a number of points equal to the spell level times the number of spells of that level you can cast extra per day? and a flat cost of 5 points for spellcasting levels in general?
Early levels are cheaper for casters but costs more later on?

It would require the usage of Fractional Saves/BAB (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9333939&postcount=4).

It might be possible to break down spellcasting even further, I haven't had time to really delve into that far realm yet.


Why wouldn't everyone choose 8+Int skill points at 1st level, then, from a mechanical standpoint?

the same reason everyone doesn't take Factotum at 1st?

Not sure where you're heading with this, skills are chosen at every level, not static once chosen at 1st.

BelGareth
2014-10-15, 04:51 PM
Spell casting

PointsAbilityRequirements
0.51 cantrip/orison known*-
11 spell known*-
1+1 cantrip/orison per day1 orison or cantrip known
2+1 1st level spell per day1 1st level spell known
4+1 2nd level spell per day1 2nd level spell known
6+1 3rd level spell per day1 3rd level spell known
8+1 4th level spell per day1 4th level spell known
10+1 5th level spell per day1 5th level spell known
12+1 6th level spell per day1 6th level spell known
14+1 7th level spell per day1 7th level spell known
16+1 8th level spell per day1 8th level spell known
18+1 9th level spell per day1 9th level spell known


* = You gain a spell of any spell level you are able to cast up to your maximum determined by your character level (1st level spell at 1st-2nd level, 2nd at 3rd-4th, 3rd at 5th-6th and etc). You must know a spell of a lower level as a prerequisite for learning a spell.

Spell lists
When gaining a new spell known for the 1st time, you create a new spell list. Upon creating a new spell list, you must choose out of the following options:

Arcane or Divine
Spontaneous or Prepared
A casting statistic, which determines bonus spells per day and the DC of the spells

Once chosen, your spell list becomes unchangeable, and any new spells known or spell slots gained are added to this spell list.

You may choose to create a new spell list by gaining a new 1st level spell known, follow the process above. If you have multiple spell lists, you must choose which one you are gaining new spells known or spell slots gained for each time.

New spells/slots
When gaining new spells known, there is a general prerequisite of knowing 1 spell of a lower level. This is the same for gaining new spell slots per day.

Temotei
2014-10-15, 07:26 PM
Not sure where you're heading with this, skills are chosen at every level, not static once chosen at 1st.

At 1st level, your skill points are multiplied by 4 still, correct? Why would anyone choose a lower point value (unless they didn't have enough for their core mechanic [e.g. spellcasting]) if they could get so many more skill points for just a couple of points at 1st level (and possibly never again)?

BelGareth
2014-10-15, 10:22 PM
At 1st level, your skill points are multiplied by 4 still, correct? Why would anyone choose a lower point value (unless they didn't have enough for their core mechanic [e.g. spellcasting]) if they could get so many more skill points for just a couple of points at 1st level (and possibly never again)?

Because 8 skills for 3 points is a lot of points, it may not seem it, but at first level, you other things you wouldn't usually have to buy, like proficiencies and so forth, and having 8 skills, even times for isn't going to break anything.

Do think they should be worth more?

qazzquimby
2014-10-16, 12:32 AM
I might be interested in helping with this, as much as time allows. Could you write a brief guide on balance points so that others might add content?

BelGareth
2014-10-16, 11:07 AM
I might be interested in helping with this, as much as time allows. Could you write a brief guide on balance points so that others might add content?

ooh, thats awesome, and many thanks in advance, I'll get on that asap (although today might be hard as I'm on email duty)

But basic premise is I'm covering all the PHB classes, and then their ACF's.

Anything that can be replicated with a feat costs 1 (which just reminded me to update something)
Anything that is slightly more powerful than a feat is 2 (like Countersong, and Trackless step)
Anything that is a solid class ability is a 4 (like Aura of courage, and Wild shape)
ACF's that replace an ability, cost the same as the replaced ability.
Abilities that replace a spell slot, cost the same.

qazzquimby
2014-10-16, 11:49 AM
Have you seen the Trissociate? I'd want this to go the same way, with a very strong backbone of core, then branching out into the best or most appropriate homebrew.

sajro
2014-10-16, 12:10 PM
Regarding spells, I think it would be a good Idea to disregard the lists entirely but still maybe differentiate between divine and arcane magic, so you can have the ability to cast both but have different casterlevels for each type.

Also, it might be a good idea to put in a requirement to know and be able to cast a spell of the previous level before you can learn a new level?

BelGareth
2014-10-16, 12:29 PM
Have you seen the Trissociate? I'd want this to go the same way, with a very strong backbone of core, then branching out into the best or most appropriate homebrew.

I have, I plan on doing all the classes, then PRC's (its a big project) then once all WoTC stuff is added, move onto well written brew.


Regarding spells, I think it would be a good Idea to disregard the lists entirely but still maybe differentiate between divine and arcane magic, so you can have the ability to cast both but have different casterlevels for each type.

Also, it might be a good idea to put in a requirement to know and be able to cast a spell of the previous level before you can learn a new level?

I think you might be correct, having so many spell lists is confusing, and yes I need to tweak it and refine it somewhat....it's on my next to do list.

EDIT: see above post, I changed it somewhat.

qazzquimby
2014-10-16, 06:54 PM
Maybe write up a priority list of things for people to do.
Depending on the extent this project is completed, it could become great monolith. It will just take an obscene amount of work to get there.

BelGareth
2014-10-17, 11:26 AM
Maybe write up a priority list of things for people to do.
Depending on the extent this project is completed, it could become great monolith. It will just take an obscene amount of work to get there.

Good point, I'll add a list to the third post.

EDIT: added.

Ilinoris
2014-10-17, 11:49 AM
I was wondering, if it is possible to take multiple feats every level?
Does this stack with the feats you get every 3rd level?

BelGareth
2014-10-17, 11:51 AM
I was wondering, if it is possible to take multiple feats every level?
Does this stack with the feats you get every 3rd level?

Yeah, the only thing limiting you is the amount of character points available.

And yeah, this is only taking into account class abilities, but I think it would be up to the DM, I think it would be better to remove all level dependent bonuses except those purchased.

BelGareth
2014-10-17, 05:50 PM
All PHB base classes and ACF's are complete.

MeklorIlavator
2014-10-17, 10:16 PM
Some thoughts: You're off mark with balance. Giving everyone the same number of points helps matters, but as you can see with your charts on the current base classes, that doesn't help matters when certain abilities are much more powerful than others. Spellcasting is, going by the current stats, ludicrously undercosted. Especially since you can easily cherry pick spells, then buy a bunch of spell slots, and have it be divine casting too boot(which doesn't have built in disadvantages like arcane spells).

Also, it seems odd to me that Combat Mastery is worth more points than a free bonus feat.

Finally, the way the costs work is somewhat unclear. For example, if I buy the druids animal companion(and that's another thing, why would you make the druid and range animal companion cost the same amount? one's explicitly inferior to the other), do I have to purchase it multiple levels?

Drako_Beoulve
2014-10-17, 11:10 PM
You have missing the Paladin's ACF that swaps Divine grace for CHA to AC

BelGareth
2014-10-18, 10:10 AM
Some thoughts: You're off mark with balance. Giving everyone the same number of points helps matters, but as you can see with your charts on the current base classes, that doesn't help matters when certain abilities are much more powerful than others.

Indeed, which made it exceptionally hard to assign arbitrary point values to class abilities, but when I went about trying to gauge the point value of each class, I wasn't trying to keep them all within the same range, as you can see, the fighter and rogue are severely under rated in that regards. I was hoping to make this system to fix that issue although.


Spellcasting is, going by the current stats, ludicrously under costed. Especially since you can easily cherry pick spells, then buy a bunch of spell slots, and have it be divine casting too boot(which doesn't have built in disadvantages like arcane spells).

Well, i think I may have omitted (and will need to amend) the idea of choosing divine/arcane spells, I wasn't intending arcane spells to be used as divine spells and vice versa. In regards to being under costed, I think that has yet to be seen, from what I can see it seems like a reverse bell curve where lower levels are much more powerful than later, as spellcasters are going to be hard pressed to purchase new spells per day for their higher level spells.


Also, it seems odd to me that Combat Mastery is worth more points than a free bonus feat.
Combat mastery and its affiliates allow a someone to bypass the normal prereqs, making it better than the standard feat.


Finally, the way the costs work is somewhat unclear. For example, if I buy the druids animal companion(and that's another thing, why would you make the druid and range animal companion cost the same amount? one's explicitly inferior to the other), do I have to purchase it multiple levels?
Some features that naturally level are consistent, and do not require additional investment, like the animal companion, if it doesn't say so, no you do not need to do anything, and your character level is what is important, not the amount of class levels in x and y.

I didn't include the ranger companion, as it is a step below the animal companion, which is worth 2 points, making it conceivably worth 1 point, which is what a feat costs. Why would I do that when players can get the Wild Cohort feat for the same price? I might consider changing animal companion up to 4 (or even 3) and make the Ranger version cost 2, but again, who would do that when you could get the wild cohort for 1?


You have missing the Paladin's ACF that swaps Divine grace for CHA to AC
Not familiar with that one, where is it from?

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-18, 10:33 AM
It occurs to me that there's a really cheap way around the steep cost of spell slots. Extra Slot from complete arcana means that, for anything that isn't your highest level spells, you get one slot at the low, low cost of 1 point for a feat.

BelGareth
2014-10-18, 10:34 AM
It occurs to me that there's a really cheap way around the steep cost of spell slots. Extra Slot from complete arcana means that, for anything that isn't your highest level spells, you get one slot at the low, low cost of 1 point for a feat.

Yeah, I thought about that and annoyingly I have no way around it...
EDIT: other than banning it.

Beheld
2014-10-18, 10:57 AM
Spellcasting:

You outlawed Clerics. That is odd, since you purport to tell us how many points to make a Cleric, while simultaneously outlawing them by forcing all prepared casters to read books for spells.

Also, it seems like a really bad idea to tell people that in order to get 9th level spells they have to save up. To get the same number of spells as a Wizard you would need to have saved up more than 3 levels worth of Epic Build Points. That seems like a bad way to design the system.(EDIT: For emphasis and clarification, I mean that at no point should any character ever be having to make a decision "Man, I want X now, but if I save up my buildpoints, I can have something way better next level." Instead, you should probably write something about people can't carry build points over, so that they have to spend everything every level, maybe allow them to carry one point if they have it left over, but only one.) In fact, the entire spell system is the worst possible case of characters created at a level are drastically better than ones built from scratch.

The system where starting at level 17 you can spend all your points on 9th, 7th, and 4th level spells (or whatever levels you think have the best spells) and devote all the points you would have spent on spells that where your highest level into something else is weird.

Also the whole "spells known" thing makes absolutely no sense for prepared casters. Either they can't get "spells known" from the world, in which case they suck and everyone should just choose spontaneous, or they can, and everyone should choose prepared because buying a Scroll of Implosion and scribing it in a book allows you to spend your build points at level 2 on 9th level spells.

Spellcasting needs a lot more clarification, explanation, codification. And it may need a completely different system in some mechanics.

For example, you could make spells cost way more to get spells per day, but then have their costs reduce based on number of levels you are higher than spell level.

So at level 1 a level 1 spell costs 7 points, but then at level 7 it costs one point. Obviously those numbers are completely made up and almost certainly wrong, but you get the point.

MeklorIlavator
2014-10-18, 11:03 AM
Combat mastery and its affiliates allow a someone to bypass the normal prereqs, making it better than the standard feat.
They also add other restrictions and have few options, which make them less useful.


I didn't include the ranger companion, as it is a step below the animal companion, which is worth 2 points, making it conceivably worth 1 point, which is what a feat costs. Why would I do that when players can get the Wild Cohort feat for the same price? I might consider changing animal companion up to 4 (or even 3) and make the Ranger version cost 2, but again, who would do that when you could get the wild cohort for 1?
There's a spot under Ranger that lists animal companion as 2 points. That implies that, for 2 points, you get the animal companion of the ranger for 2 points.

BelGareth
2014-10-18, 11:10 AM
Spellcasting:

You outlawed Clerics. That is odd, since you purport to tell us how many points to make a Cleric, while simultaneously outlawing them by forcing all prepared casters to read books for spells.

Also, it seems like a really bad idea to tell people that in order to get 9th level spells they have to save up. To get the same number of spells as a Wizard you would need to have saved up more than 3 levels worth of Epic Build Points. That seems like a bad way to design the system.(EDIT: For emphasis and clarification, I mean that at no point should any character ever be having to make a decision "Man, I want X now, but if I save up my buildpoints, I can have something way better next level." Instead, you should probably write something about people can't carry build points over, so that they have to spend everything every level, maybe allow them to carry one point if they have it left over, but only one.) In fact, the entire spell system is the worst possible case of characters created at a level are drastically better than ones built from scratch.

The system where starting at level 17 you can spend all your points on 9th, 7th, and 4th level spells (or whatever levels you think have the best spells) and devote all the points you would have spent on spells that where your highest level into something else is weird.

Also the whole "spells known" thing makes absolutely no sense for prepared casters. Either they can't get "spells known" from the world, in which case they suck and everyone should just choose spontaneous, or they can, and everyone should choose prepared because buying a Scroll of Implosion and scribing it in a book allows you to spend your build points at level 2 on 9th level spells.

Spellcasting needs a lot more clarification, explanation, codification. And it may need a completely different system in some mechanics.

For example, you could make spells cost way more to get spells per day, but then have their costs reduce based on number of levels you are higher than spell level.

So at level 1 a level 1 spell costs 7 points, but then at level 7 it costs one point. Obviously those numbers are completely made up and almost certainly wrong, but you get the point.

The spell casting system was is a rough draft, and needs to be heavily tested and vetted. I admit that.

Not sure how I outlawed clerics, merely fixed list spellcasters. In order to reduce spellcasters down to an equal plane, I had to remake/remove several things, having fixed spell lists is part of the problem with balance, which is the whole point of this system.

you do not need to save up, getting one 9th spell cost 18 and then one 9th spell per day is 1. 19 points. That's one level in standard play.

I'm not trying to emulate classes here, and I certainly am not trying to give casters the same amount of power as regular 3.5. Again, that's the point of this system, is to remove classes, and provide a meaningful amount of balance, if possible, all casters are Tier 1-2 for a reason.

I disagree, I think rolling points over is just fine, and I've seen it work in other systems.

Correct the spell system could/should be revised, its definitely one the harder aspects of the system to break down.

There are obvious benefits to being spontaneous and prepared, it's up to the player, and I do not see it as being an obvious choice.
The term Spells known is a little confusing, but that's a simple fix to spells learned or something similar.

I am going to be looking at the spell casting system a little closer soon, so I can focus on it and see whats up.

BelGareth
2014-10-18, 11:12 AM
They also add other restrictions and have few options, which make them less useful.


There's a spot under Ranger that lists animal companion as 2 points. That implies that, for 2 points, you get the animal companion of the ranger for 2 points.

Thats merely a place for people to look for 'Ranger' features, but yeah, I'll add in that its the druid version.

JBPuffin
2014-10-18, 11:15 AM
There's a spot under Ranger that lists animal companion as 2 points. That implies that, for 2 points, you get the animal companion of the ranger for 2 points.

From RAI, he just gave the Ranger a better animal companion *shrug*. Works for me.

Every time I see one of these, I only have one thing to say: there's this thing called Eclipse: the Codex Persona that does point-buy. You can also make literally anything with it - races, classes, feats, the whole nine yards. There's also a blog by the creator that has a lot of examples and discussions about it (click here (http://ruscumag.wordpress.com/)). It's also free as a PDF. Before you devote too much time into your own creation, see what you get from this, if nothing else than to help inspire you. Good luck on your quest for a good point buy 3.5, BelGareth.

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-18, 11:25 AM
Do you want help quantifying some of the remaining classes? I could do break-downs of the abilities of the phbII classes at the very least, they're relatively obvious, and I'm relatively sure they don't have any ACF's flying around in other books, so there's only the one source to deal with.

BelGareth
2014-10-18, 11:45 AM
From RAI, he just gave the Ranger a better animal companion *shrug*. Works for me.

Every time I see one of these, I only have one thing to say: there's this thing called Eclipse: the Codex Persona that does point-buy. You can also make literally anything with it - races, classes, feats, the whole nine yards. There's also a blog by the creator that has a lot of examples and discussions about it (click here (http://ruscumag.wordpress.com/)). It's also free as a PDF. Before you devote too much time into your own creation, see what you get from this, if nothing else than to help inspire you. Good luck on your quest for a good point buy 3.5, BelGareth.

Thanks! I'll take a look see.


Do you want help quantifying some of the remaining classes? I could do break-downs of the abilities of the phbII classes at the very least, they're relatively obvious, and I'm relatively sure they don't have any ACF's flying around in other books, so there's only the one source to deal with.

I'm always up for help, that would be awesome.

Beheld
2014-10-18, 11:58 AM
Not sure how I outlawed clerics, merely fixed list spellcasters. In order to reduce spellcasters down to an equal plane, I had to remake/remove several things, having fixed spell lists is part of the problem with balance, which is the whole point of this system.

Clerics can prepare spells from their entire list. You have made prepared Divine Casters walk around with a book full of spells, instead of getting them from praying to their god(ess). That is not a Cleric. That is an Archivist.


you do not need to save up, getting one 9th spell cost 18 and then one 9th spell per day is 1. 19 points. That's one level in standard play.

First off, gritty is 14 points. Secondly, what I said is that you have to save up to get what a Wizard does. A Wizard gets more than one spell of the level they get access to, because they need it to keep up with multiple encounters a day with monsters that require that level of power.

You are missing the point. The point is that is makes no sense for a Wizard to start at level 1 in an Epic game with 20 uses of Color Spray a day, but then hit level 17 and get one 9th level spell. It isn't an issue of casters being less powerful, it is an issue that by definition, if you use more points for higher level spells but give the same points at level 20 as at level 1, then by definition you are creating a situation in which the point total will give a much much much much smaller level of level 9 spells then level 1 spells per level. This game makes casters, who were already the strongest characters, even stronger at levels 1-5 or 6 depending on track. But then it makes them significantly weaker later on in a way that is boring and hurts the party as a whole.


I disagree, I think rolling points over is just fine, and I've seen it work in other systems.

No. No. No. No. Any time you say to someone "You can either be good now and bad later, or you can be bad now and good later" you are failing to design the game. No one should ever be able to choose between those two options.


There are obvious benefits to being spontaneous and prepared, it's up to the player, and I do not see it as being an obvious choice.
The term Spells known is a little confusing, but that's a simple fix to spells learned or something similar.

I am talking about a specific problem. A level 1 Wizard is walking through the world, and they come across a spellbook which has a 9th level spell. Do they know that spell? If so, you instantly can start taking 9th level spell slots at level 1. If not, then it follows they cannot cast spells they find in the world in spell slots, so that means that a Wizard with one spell known and 19 spell slots can't ever cast any spell except the one he paid build points for. If you can only cast spells you spent build points for, then you should never ever ever ever ever ever ever be a prepared caster, because it is objectively better to cast spontaneously from the same number of spell slots and spells known.


There is also another problem that I keep thinking about, but the forgetting when I start typing these replies. I can't remember what it is right now, but if I do I'll try to mention it.

MeklorIlavator
2014-10-18, 12:10 PM
I'd point out that there's a limit against that Wizard learning the 9th level spell in standard DnD as well: you can only learn spells that are [levelX2]-1, at least for wizards. So that level one wizard cannot learn that spell, thought a level 17 one likely could.

sajro
2014-10-18, 12:11 PM
Clerics can prepare spells from their entire list. You have made prepared Divine Casters walk around with a book full of spells, instead of getting them from praying to their god(ess). That is not a Cleric. That is an Archivist.

By this system the "cleric" just have a smaller list granted by their God(ess), there is no place where it is said to be in a spellbook.


I am talking about a specific problem. A level 1 Wizard is walking through the world, and they come across a spellbook which has a 9th level spell. Do they know that spell? If so, you instantly can start taking 9th level spell slots at level 1. If not, then it follows they cannot cast spells they find in the world in spell slots, so that means that a Wizard with one spell known and 19 spell slots can't ever cast any spell except the one he paid build points for. If you can only cast spells you spent build points for, then you should never ever ever ever ever ever ever be a prepared caster, because it is objectively better to cast spontaneously from the same number of spell slots and spells known.

This I must say I agree with, and I believe a way to fix it is to say that an Prepared caster can learn spells found in the world if he already know a spell of the apropiate level?
And then Spontaneus can only through buying them with points

Beheld
2014-10-18, 12:24 PM
I'd point out that there's a limit against that Wizard learning the 9th level spell in standard DnD as well: you can only learn spells that are [levelX2]-1, at least for wizards. So that level one wizard cannot learn that spell, thought a level 17 one likely could.

Wizards don't have spells known in regular D&D, they have spell slots. So a Wizard finding a spellbook with 9th level spells changes nothing. In this game, the only pre-req to getting spell slots is knowing a spell of that level. So either Wizards can never have any spell slots, or they can if they have the spell in a spellbook. If they have it in a book, then nothing stops them from getting a 9th level slot at level 2.


By this system the "cleric" just have a smaller list granted by their God(ess), there is no place where it is said to be in a spellbook.

You are right, it never ever says that at all. It definitely doesn't say that explicitly in the rules for spell lists, where it specifically says:


Spontaneous casters cannot learn knew spells from other sources, while prepared casters can, and use a spellbook to prepare and learn spells.

sajro
2014-10-18, 12:29 PM
You are right, it never ever says that at all. It definitely doesn't say that explicitly in the rules for spell lists, where it specifically says:

First off there is no reason to be sarcastic.
Secondly where is that stated? I guess you are refering to this post?
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18264453&postcount=14

Beheld
2014-10-18, 12:46 PM
First off there is no reason to be sarcastic.
Secondly where is that stated? I guess you are refering to this post?
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=18264453&postcount=14

There sure is a reason to be sarcastic. Sarcasm is funny. That is a sufficient reason.

I am talking about the very first post in this thread, if you scroll down and click on the spellcasting spoiler, you will find a section that read in it's entirety:


Spell lists
When gaining a new spell known for the 1st time, you create a new spell list. Upon creating a new spell list, you must choose out of the following options:

Arcane or Divine (determined by the 1st spell you choose)
Spontaneous or Prepared
A mental statistic, which determines bonus spells per day and the DC of the spells.

The spell you 1st learn determines whether or not your spell list will be Divine or Arcane, you may not mix and match, and only choose other spells that are of the same type for your spell list.

Spontaneous casters cannot learn knew spells from other sources, while prepared casters can, and use a spellbook to prepare and learn spells.

Once chosen, your spell list becomes unchangeable, and any new spells known or spell slots gained are added to this spell list.

You may choose to create a new spell list by gaining a new 1st level spell known, follow the process above. If you have multiple spell lists, you must choose which one you are gaining new spells known or spell slots gained for each time.

MeklorIlavator
2014-10-18, 12:48 PM
Wizards don't have spells known in regular D&D, they have spell slots. So a Wizard finding a spellbook with 9th level spells changes nothing. In this game, the only pre-req to getting spell slots is knowing a spell of that level. So either Wizards can never have any spell slots, or they can if they have the spell in a spellbook. If they have it in a book, then nothing stops them from getting a 9th level slot at level 2.


Ah, I was mixing up learning the spell with being able to cast the spell, largely because that's the way it is with this set of rules. Note the sentences directly under the table.

sajro
2014-10-18, 12:53 PM
There sure is a reason to be sarcastic. Sarcasm is funny. That is a sufficient reason.

I am talking about the very first post in this thread, if you scroll down and click on the spellcasting spoiler, you will find a section that read in it's entirety:


I Disagree with you on the first part Sarcasm isnt funny because sarcasm is supposed to be offensive.
And I think we should end it here as it is Off-topic?

And I hadn't read that part I was checking the other post because it seemed the place he updated his spellcasting, so thats the reason for the confusion.

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-18, 02:06 PM
Here's two of the phbII classes. I'm bad at tables so that might have to be cleaned up.



Ability
Cost
Prerequisites
Special


Armored Mage
4
Arcane Spellcasting



Trapfinding
2




Surprise Casting
2

May be taken again at 6th level


Cloaked Casting
4
2nd level
May be taken again at every 6th level after 2nd, maximum 20th.



Comments; chassis costs 5=1(simple)+1(light)+1(d6hd)+2(6/30 skills) at first level and 3 after that. If you go for the two provided abilities, you're left with 11 points for spell-casting in a standard game.
Advanced Learning and the various bonus metamagic feats are irrelevant in this system, or just translate to feats.

Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Armored Mage
4
Arcane Casting
Can be taken one additional time at fourth level, provides medium and shields


Arcane Attunement
2

Counts as knowing and being able to cast 0th level arcane spells for the purpose of prerequisites


Arcane Channeling
4
3rd level, Arcane spells
Can be taken one additional time at 13th level


Quick Cast
4
5th
Can be taken once every 5 subsequent levels


Spell Power
1
6th


Comments; Chassis costs 10 pts at first level and 6 at all subsequent levels. Quite expensive, as are the first few levels of abilities.

Regarding the spellcasting debate; I quite agree that something is off. I'm not quite sure what would be a better way to go about it, however. My gut instinct says that you should probably have all spells cost the same and trust the fact that spells are level-appropriate to keep the balance.

This seems weird since spells are tiered, but consider that inspire courage +1 and inspire heroics both cost four points, even though inspire heroics is straight up better. The same thing should apply to spells, IMO.

The hard part is deciding how much a spell slot should cost. Personally, I think five points sounds about right; a first level caster will have one to three spells per day, and have room for other abilities too, like spells known, familiars, specializations, rage, or animal companions.

Now, this way of doing it has an obviouis problem. Since getting high-level spell slots is no more expensive than getting low-level spell-slots, something like the dusk-blade or even the paladin won't make sense. I'm not sure what to do about that. Maybe put up a one-time tiered cost? Say, if you had to pay (2*spell level) just as a pre-requisite to start taking that level of spells, (probably getting first level for free), you'd have soft-banned spells higher than sixth level or so in low-power campaigns, which seems about right, and there'd be a reason for builds trying to do other things, even in epic campaigns, to avoid grabbing the higher spell-levels.

Alternatively, as I find that method quite inelegant, you could provide a discount on buying spell slots of a lower level than the highest you could've. Say, if a max-level spell slot cost five points, a max-1 could cost four, max-2 could be three and so on. This way there'd be incentive to pick up some low-level slots for cheap.

qazzquimby
2014-10-18, 02:10 PM
How do you handle things that advance very slowly, like the number of vestiges you can simultaneously bind? Minimum level requirement of the level it's usually granted?

Beheld
2014-10-18, 02:14 PM
Ah, I was mixing up learning the spell with being able to cast the spell, largely because that's the way it is with this set of rules. Note the sentences directly under the table.

Note that those sentences only apply to using build points to buy spells known, hence my repeated emphasis on level 1 Wizards finding a spellbook in game.

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-18, 02:37 PM
There's another option, I dislike it, but it's likely to work as well as normal dnd.

Suppose you chose a dnd class to cast like, got that progression, and then at each level you paid a set number of character points for that.

Wizard would be really expensive, on the magnitude of 20pts or so (if you count all the stuff they normally get outside of casting, they have 2 points on average each level that isn't used on spellcasting.) Using that as benchmark you could set up the costs of other spellcasters. Druid and cleric casting could be a little cheaper, archivist falls somewhere in between along with the sorcerer, beguiler and warmage and duskblade are comparatively cheap. 4rth max casting should probably be around four points each level, but only when you actually have casting, so no loss levels 1-3.

This is a really clunky way to do it though, and kind of defeats the purpose of doing away with classes. I really recommend making a modular do-it-yourself system work, I'm just saying that this is a possibility to think about, and maybe it can get someone with better ideas than me thinking.

BelGareth
2014-10-18, 03:42 PM
Here's two of the phbII classes. I'm bad at tables so that might have to be cleaned up.



Ability
Cost
Prerequisites
Special


Armored Mage
4
Arcane Spellcasting



Trapfinding
2




Surprise Casting
2

May be taken again at 6th level


Cloaked Casting
4
2nd level
May be taken again at every 6th level after 2nd, maximum 20th.



Comments; chassis costs 5=1(simple)+1(light)+1(d6hd)+2(6/30 skills) at first level and 3 after that. If you go for the two provided abilities, you're left with 11 points for spell-casting in a standard game.
Advanced Learning and the various bonus metamagic feats are irrelevant in this system, or just translate to feats.

Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Armored Mage
4
Arcane Casting
Can be taken one additional time at fourth level, provides medium and shields


Arcane Attunement
2

Counts as knowing and being able to cast 0th level arcane spells for the purpose of prerequisites


Arcane Channeling
4
3rd level, Arcane spells
Can be taken one additional time at 13th level


Quick Cast
4
5th
Can be taken once every 5 subsequent levels


Spell Power
1
6th


Comments; Chassis costs 10 pts at first level and 6 at all subsequent levels. Quite expensive, as are the first few levels of abilities.


This looks awesome, thanks!

EDIT: I would change Armored Mage and Cloaked Casting to 2.



Ok, I think I have a good way of doing prepared and spontaneous arcane spells:

Prepared:
1 spell learned = 2.5 CP
2 spell's learned = 5 CP
1 spell per day = 5 CP

So this emulates the wizard learning more, and being able to cast less. Also fits within my ~20 ish CP allotment.

Spontaneous:
1 spell known = 5 CP
1 spell per day = 2.5 CP

Likewise, this emulates the sorcerers ability to cast more and know less while staying within the same amount of CP's.

While both seemingly look the same at 1st, it will quickly change as they level, assume the standard requirements of knowing a certain spell level lower before gaining a new spell level etc...(things I'm to lazy to write up right now)

This should also allow me to utilize the same thing for other progressive abilities similar to this (like Binders and Martial maneuvers) as well as possibly keeping the fixed spell lists. (working on cleric as we speak)

EDIT: this may even work for Divine as well, I'm still not sold on having fixed spell lists, I just think they would cause to much of an issue in this system.



Here we go:

AbilityPointsSpecial
+1 cantrip0.5You gain 1 cantrip known and 1 cantrip spell slot.

Prepared
+1 spell learned2.5You gain 1 spell in your spellbook of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 1 spell of a lower level.
+1 Spell per day5You gain 1 spell slot up to the maximum spell level you are able to cast, as long as you are able to cast at least 1 spell of a lower level.

Spontaneous
+1 spell known5You gain 1 spell known of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 1 spell of a lower level.
+1 Spell per day2.5You gain 1 spell slot up to the maximum spell level you are able to cast, as long as you are able to cast at least 1 spell of a lower level.


The maximum spell level you are able to learn and cast is limited to 1/2 your character level.

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-18, 04:34 PM
Did the dragon shaman too. Is the +3 points at first level a new addition or did I just miss it before?



Ability
Cost
Prerequisites
Special


Draconic Aura +1
4

Not including aura's known themselves. May be taken again at 5th level and once every 5 subsequent levels.


1 Draconic Aura Known
1
Draconic Aura +1
May be taken multiple times


Totem Dragon
1




Draconic Adaptation
1
Totem Dragon
May be selected one additinal time at 13th level


Breath Weapon
4
Totem Dragon, 4th



Draconic Resolve
2
4th



Touch of Vitality
2
6th
May be selected again at 11th level


Natural Armour +1
2
7th
May be selected again every 5 subsequent levels


Energy Immunity
4
Totem Dragon, 9th



Commune with Dragon Spirit
4
14th



Draconic Wings
4
19th




Overall, it's very cheap to get all of the abilities.
This fits pretty well with my experience of the class, it's not that it's terrible, it's just not all that good. None of it is rage, aura nearly comes close, but not all the way, and breath weapon doesn't hold a candle to real blasting.

Edit; interesting thought. Mightn't it make it too good for standard wizards? Then again, I'm making them pay 4cp for what amounts to continous mage-armor. It does seem a bit steep. 2 is probably fine. I'm not sure about cloaked casting, but I am aware that spell focus is a feat... You're probably right, come to think of that.

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-18, 06:27 PM
Here's the Knight as well.


Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Fighting Challenge
4

May be chosen again at every 6 levels beyond 1st


Shield Block
2
2nd
May be chosen again at every 9 level beyond 2nd


Bulwark of Defense
4
3rd



Armour Mastery
2
4th
May be chosen again at 9th level


Test of Mettle
4
4th



Vigilant Defender
1
5th



Shield Ally
2
6th



Call to Battle
2
8th



Daunting Challenge
2
12th



Improved Shield Ally
2
14th, Shield Ally



Bond of Loyalty
2
14th



Impetuous Endurance
2
17th



Loyal Beyond Death
4
20th

Drako_Beoulve
2014-10-19, 05:14 PM
This looks awesome, thanks!

EDIT: I would change Armored Mage and Cloaked Casting to 2.



Ok, I think I have a good way of doing prepared and spontaneous arcane spells:

Prepared:
1 spell learned = 2.5 CP
2 spell's learned = 5 CP
1 spell per day = 5 CP

So this emulates the wizard learning more, and being able to cast less. Also fits within my ~20 ish CP allotment.

Spontaneous:
1 spell known = 5 CP
1 spell per day = 2.5 CP

Likewise, this emulates the sorcerers ability to cast more and know less while staying within the same amount of CP's.

While both seemingly look the same at 1st, it will quickly change as they level, assume the standard requirements of knowing a certain spell level lower before gaining a new spell level etc...(things I'm to lazy to write up right now)

This should also allow me to utilize the same thing for other progressive abilities similar to this (like Binders and Martial maneuvers) as well as possibly keeping the fixed spell lists. (working on cleric as we speak)

EDIT: this may even work for Divine as well, I'm still not sold on having fixed spell lists, I just think they would cause to much of an issue in this system.



Here we go:

AbilityPointsSpecial
+1 cantrip0.5You gain 1 cantrip known and 1 cantrip spell slot.

Prepared
+1 spell learned2.5You gain 1 spell in your spellbook of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 1 spell of a lower level.
+1 Spell per day5You gain 1 spell slot up to the maximum spell level you are able to cast, as long as you are able to cast at least 1 spell of a lower level.

Spontaneous
+1 spell known5You gain 1 spell known of any level that you can cast, as long as you know at least 1 spell of a lower level.
+1 Spell per day2.5You gain 1 spell slot up to the maximum spell level you are able to cast, as long as you are able to cast at least 1 spell of a lower level.


The maximum spell level you are able to learn and cast is limited to 1/2 your character level.

I already tried some combinations on your new breakdown and I think is too expensive, At level 1, with 22 points per level, you need 8 points to cast 1 cantrip and 1 spell at day, even if you spend all your points you can get 2 slots + 2 spells + 4 cantrips. If that's what you want then It's fine, but I think you should lower the cost from 2.5 to 2 and from 5 to 4. In that way casting a spell per day will cost 6 points, that is, 2 point more than a regular class feature, in that way, you will have 3 slots + 3 spells + 4 points left for cantrips, feats, or features

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-19, 05:36 PM
I already tried some combinations on your new breakdown and I think is too expensive, At level 1, with 22 points per level, you need 8 points to cast 1 cantrip and 1 spell at day, even if you spend all your points you can get 2 slots + 2 spells + 4 cantrips. If that's what you want then It's fine, but I think you should lower the cost from 2.5 to 2 and from 5 to 4. In that way casting a spell per day will cost 6 points, that is, 2 point more than a regular class feature, in that way, you will have 3 slots + 3 spells + 4 points left for cantrips, feats, or features
I think you're quite mistaken here, as you're forgetting something vitally important.

Consider that the standard wizard (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/sorcererWizard.htm#wizard) only has a single actual spell slot at first level. using specialization to get the second one. He's got a familiar, scribe scroll and school specialization. It all adds up to six(seven if we take a feat) out of twenty-five points that aren't spent on getting all cantrips, three cantrip spell slots, ~6 first level spells known and a single first-level spell slots.

Suppose we buy the three cantrips. That makes 1.5cp. Then we go buy the spell slot. We have now spent 5 points on that, and it all adds up to 13.5cp, and we have 11.5cp left with which to buy spells known. This probably isn't optimal point use, but it emulates the wizard pretty well.

At next level he gets 22 new shiny points. If he grabs two more first level spells, he now has room for three more spell slots, and two points left for feats. We're actually doing better than the standard wizard by now. Rinse and repeat all the way to level 20.

Edit; Specialization is two points, not four, so we can grab yet another spell known at level one, raising the content of our book to five. We're left with a single point, which can be spent as we like. Aside from that point, we're more or less equal with a standard wizard. It gets better after this level though.

Drako_Beoulve
2014-10-19, 11:17 PM
Not familiar with that one, where is it from?

Champions of valor pg # 48

nikkoli
2014-10-19, 11:34 PM
With the monk armor bonus, are you leveling up only the +1 they get every 4 levels, or does getting the first level of it allow you to add an insight bonus to your ac based off of wisdom like a regular monk?
When I found this thread I got really excited because I think that I could make just about anything I wanted with it. I had an idea for a sorcerer/monk or warlock/monk, but the stats I would have to invest from standard point buy severely limit what I could do, with multi class.
Keep up with this project it looks extremely promising!
I might try to post a break down of some other class you have on the main page to help out if I can.

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-20, 11:43 AM
Is there a reason the wizard abilities of Unearthed Arcana was omitted? Things like Rapid conjuration are quite key to the summoner archetype, and not including it seems... wierd.

BelGareth
2014-10-22, 11:08 AM
Champions of valor pg # 48

That is included, it's 'Brilliant strategy" from the Red Falcon Paladin ACF


With the monk armor bonus, are you leveling up only the +1 they get every 4 levels, or does getting the first level of it allow you to add an insight bonus to your ac based off of wisdom like a regular monk?
When I found this thread I got really excited because I think that I could make just about anything I wanted with it. I had an idea for a sorcerer/monk or warlock/monk, but the stats I would have to invest from standard point buy severely limit what I could do, with multi class.
Keep up with this project it looks extremely promising!
I might try to post a break down of some other class you have on the main page to help out if I can.

Unless otherwise stated you get everything from the class feature as normal. So yes, you get the +1 ac every 4 levels.

Thanks for the feedback, stay tuned as its picked up some momentum and I'll be doing other classes soon.


Is there a reason the wizard abilities of Unearthed Arcana was omitted? Things like Rapid conjuration are quite key to the summoner archetype, and not including it seems... wierd.

Just missed them (or either passed them over and didn't think they were worth it) I'll add them sometime today.

BelGareth
2014-10-22, 02:25 PM
Updated tables (and moved them around a little) with the PHB 2 classes (THANKS Ebon Dragon!)

Added the UA wizard specialist ACF's as requested.

Onto the Complete series for base classes.....

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-23, 07:27 AM
Actually, maybe the 'arcane spells' requirement should be taken off the arcane channelling duskblade feature? It's one of those things that in retrospect seem an arbitrary legacy.



Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Hexblade's Curse
4

May be taken once every four levels after 1st


Greater Hexblade's Curse
4
6th, Hexblade's Curse



Dire Hexblade's Curse
4
19th, Hexblade's Curse



Aura of Unluck
2
12th
May be taken again every four levels after 12th


Dark Companion
4

PHBII p. 47



Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Kai Smite
4

May be taken again at 7th level and every 5 levels thereafter


Mass Staredown
1




Improved Mass Staredown
4
Mass Staredown



Frightful Prescence
2
20th





Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Insightful Strike
4




Dodge Bonus
2
5th



Shield of Blades
2
5th
PHBII p. 63


Acrobatic Charge
1




Improved Flanking
1




Lucky
2
11th



Acrobatic Mastery
2
13th



Weakening Critical
4
14th



Wounding Critical
4
19th





Here's a suggestion for how the cw classes could look. I'm not aware of any ACF's or sub levels for those outside the PHBII, am I missing something? Edit; Swashbuckler has arcane stunt in CM, but he might as well take some spells, so it doesn't really matter.

Edit; I was wondering, when you get around to doing the PRC's are you going to have the requirements for enterning the class be a requirement for taking the features?



Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Energy Resistance
2
5th
May be taken again once every 5 subsequent levels


Wings
4
17th



Damage reduction
4
20th



Deity's Favor
4
3rd





Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Sense Elements
2

Drako_Beoulve
2014-10-23, 06:26 PM
My Two Cents:




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Steely resolve 54May take an additional time at 2nd and every 4 levels thereafter
Furious counterstrike4Steely resolve
Indomitable soul2
Zealous surge23rd level




I will post the other two classes over the weekend

BelGareth
2014-10-23, 06:41 PM
Actually, maybe the 'arcane spells' requirement should be taken off the arcane channelling duskblade feature? It's one of those things that in retrospect seem an arbitrary legacy.



Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Hexblade's Curse
4

May be taken once every four levels after 1st


Greater Hexblade's Curse
4
6th, Hexblade's Curse



Dire Hexblade's Curse
4
19th, Hexblade's Curse



Aura of Unluck
2
12th
May be taken again every four levels after 12th


Dark Companion
4

PHBII p. 47



Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Kai Smite
4

May be taken again at 7th level and every 5 levels thereafter


Mass Staredown
1




Improved Mass Staredown
4
Mass Staredown



Frightful Prescence
2
20th





Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Insightful Strike
4




Dodge Bonus
2
5th



Shield of Blades
2
5th
PHBII p. 63


Acrobatic Charge
1




Improved Flanking
1




Lucky
2
11th



Acrobatic Mastery
2
13th



Weakening Critical
4
14th



Wounding Critical
4
19th





Here's a suggestion for how the cw classes could look. I'm not aware of any ACF's or sub levels for those outside the PHBII, am I missing something? Edit; Swashbuckler has arcane stunt in CM, but he might as well take some spells, so it doesn't really matter.

Edit; I was wondering, when you get around to doing the PRC's are you going to have the requirements for enterning the class be a requirement for taking the features?



Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Energy Resistance
2
5th
May be taken again once every 5 subsequent levels


Wings
4
17th



Damage reduction
4
20th



Deity's Favor
4
3rd





Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Sense Elements
2





Awesome, again, thank you!


My Two Cents:




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Steely resolve 56May take an additional time at 2nd and every 4 levels thereafter
Furious counterstrike4Steely resolve
Indomitable soul2
Zealous surge23rd level
Smite 1/day4May take an additional time every 6 levels thereafter
Mettle410th level




I will post the other two classes over the weekend

Well, first off, I would not have anything above 4, thats reserved for spells, and spell likes. Smite has already been covered (in Paladin) and cost 2, as well as Mettle (staying in at 4).

General rule, if a previous class covered it, it doesn't need to be done again.

Thanks for covering the class, I'll be covering the Maneuver system soon.

Drako_Beoulve
2014-10-23, 10:23 PM
Awesome, again, thank you!



Well, first off, I would not have anything above 4, thats reserved for spells, and spell likes. Smite has already been covered (in Paladin) and cost 2, as well as Mettle (staying in at 4).

General rule, if a previous class covered it, it doesn't need to be done again.

Thanks for covering the class, I'll be covering the Maneuver system soon. the 6 was a typo, I mean 4 hehehe. Thought Smite and Smite Evil was a separate features. Table fixed!

nikkoli
2014-10-23, 10:40 PM
You've got invocations as 6 class points each, I'm not completely clear on how they work, but don't they just make spells into spell like abilities, albeit just a smaller list? Are they at-will rather than using up slots and that's why they are more expensive?

Drako_Beoulve
2014-10-23, 10:48 PM
AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Quick to Act +12May take an additional time at every 4 levels thereafter
Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus)4Martial Discipline"Discipline Focus" features can be taken once every 4 levels; may take this feature more than once
Discipline Focus (Insightful strike)44th level; Martial Discipline"Discipline Focus" features can be taken once every 4 levels; may take this feature more than once
Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance)44th level; Martial Discipline"Discipline Focus" features can be taken once every 4 levels; may take this feature more than once
Sense magic2
Dual boost 3/day420th Level; Martial Discipline




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Weapon aptitude4
Battle clarity4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Battle ardor4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Battle cunning4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Battle skill4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Battle mastery4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Stance mastery420th level



Bel, do you will include base classes from Dragon Compendium?

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-24, 07:07 AM
If smite is a 2point ability, kai smite should probably be 2 pts as well. I thought you had it priced at 4 pts.

Hexblade's curse should probably also be 2 pts, come to think of it.

sajro
2014-10-24, 07:36 AM
I was just wondering about how you are going to do the maneuvers for ToB, the most simple would be to handle them as spells?
But I am not sure if that is what you where thinking of doing?

So you would end up with a table like this:



Ability
Points
Special



Maneuver known
5
You gain knowledge of any maneuver as long as you meet its requirements and have the required level1


Maneuver readied
5
You have an extra maneuver readied1


1This also increases your initiator level by 1 max once per level



Maneuver level
Initiator Level


1st
1-2



2nd

3-4



3rd

5-6



4th

7-8



5th

9-10



6th

11-12



7th

13-14



8th

15-16



9th

17-20




I am mostly concerned if it is too expensive or too cheap?

SterlingDS
2014-10-24, 07:46 AM
The artificer has a couple issues. You've confused Metamagic Spell trigger - which they get at 7nth - with Metamagic Spell Completion - which they get at 11nth, and you've negelected to add as a costed ability.

You've priced Craft Homunculus at 2 when Craft Construct costs 1 and allows you to craft homunculi as well as other constructs.


Also, I'm curious about stuff like "Generalist Wizard". Doesn't this ACF lead to a massive cost savings to a prepared spell caster who's buying spells known?

However, why is that prepared spell caster buying spells known? It's much cheaper to buy them as scrolls and transcribe them. Who would pay 2.5 feats for what amounts to a single 1st level spell scroll? That would seem to give prepared casters a pretty huge advantage...

Further, if I'm pointbuying, why would I spend anything but the bare minimum on spell casting till perhaps level 5 or 7 anyway - I could just be a fighter with lots of feats till then, then suddenly pick up spell casting when spells start becoming valuable. Perhaps you need a rule that you must have purchased at least as many spell slots of the previous level to get them at the current level?

Jyssika
2014-10-24, 08:29 AM
Question:
Does Spontanious XXX Casting grant all spells known of the group?
For example; does Spontanious Summon Natures Ally grant all SNA spells? I to IX?

I have built a rather interesting Cleric using;

Domain x2 (Pick 2) (4)
Spells Per day (spontanious) x2 (5)
Spontanious (Cure & Summon Natures ally) (4)

For 13 points at lvl 1 can cast any 2 lvl1 spells per day from a rather large list of spells (4 at lvl 1) (Equivelant of 20 points if bought otherwise, only 8 using this technique and obveously it scales unlike the cost of 20 per lvl that it would otherwise cost) (2 domains, cure and SNA spells)
Obveously at later levels the slots could increase by adding more spells per day (pretty cheap for spontanious casters without the heavy spells known costs)
and spell lists could be increased by just picking more domains... Things like Time and Travel stand out as very good options.

---

Also I would like to point out a small ... well... large discrepancy with the system that irks me slightly, just to show perspective not as an attack. (Because this system is amazing and if I had your adress I would post you cookies for it!)

Some of your features scale as dips; others scale per investment.

For example the Druid is often considered not worth ever PrC'ing due to its scaling features being amazing (ignore PShep)
In this system however the Druid is perhaps the best dip imaginable... for 5 points you can have Wildshape r/HD 1/day and 1 feat letting you cast whilst in wildshape...
For 7 Points you can have that and the Animal Companion... Lifetime warranty.

Casting on the other hand is a veeeeery heavy investment each and every level.
It skewes the value of points very badly to have some powers scale for free and others
be a point cost at each level and it would be perhaps best to consider one or the other.

---

Anyway... thats my 2 cents.

As you can see from my above question and build it is much more efficient to use scaling features than
static ones; at higher levels it become much more obscene.

Drako_Beoulve
2014-10-24, 10:04 AM
I was just wondering about how you are going to do the maneuvers for ToB, the most simple would be to handle them as spells?
But I am not sure if that is what you where thinking of doing?

So you would end up with a table like this:



Ability
Points
Special



Maneuver known
5
You gain knowledge of any maneuver as long as you meet its requirements and have the required level1


Maneuver readied
5
You have an extra maneuver readied1


1This also increases your initiator level by 1 max once per level

I am mostly concerned if it is too expensive or too cheap?
I think the cost should depend of what type of recover mechanic you have, Swordsage should be cheaper, Crusader should be average price and Warblade should be the expensive one.



Mechanic
Maneuver/Stance Known
Maneuver Ready


Swordsage
2.5
3


Crusader
5
3


Warblade
5
5



In the other hand, I think of having a starting package whenever a player chooses a system to have, i.e if you choose to be a spontaneous spellcaster then you'll receive 4 cantrips 2 spells known and 1 spell per day at the cost of 10 points or be an Initiator having 3 maneuvers known, 2 ready and 1 stance for the same 10 points. In this way, further spell slot, maneuvers known will make more sense on high prices.

sajro
2014-10-24, 10:29 AM
I think the cost should depend of what type of recover mechanic you have, Swordsage should be cheaper, Crusader should be average price and Warblade should be the expensive one.



Mechanic
Maneuver/Stance Known
Maneuver Ready


Swordsage
2.5
3


Crusader
5
3


Warblade
5
5



In the other hand, I think of having a starting package whenever a player chooses a system to have, i.e if you choose to be a spontaneous spellcaster then you'll receive 4 cantrips 2 spells known and 1 spell per day at the cost of 10 points or be an Initiator having 3 maneuvers known, 2 ready and 1 stance for the same 10 points. In this way, further spell slot, maneuvers known will make more sense on high prices.

But doesnt this break the purpose of the system a bit? I might be wrong, but I feel that the system is build to mix and choose what abilities you want without any kind of packages?
So maybe leaving the prices at the level of the Crusaders, since the swordsage as far as I can tell is going to pay less if he wants to get his class abilities compared to the warblade, so the swordsage would have more points to spend on the maneuvers?

EDIT:
For the swordsage shouldn't discipline focus(weapon focus) be able to be taken at first level?
And aren't you missing the Discipline focus(Insightful Strike)?

BelGareth
2014-10-24, 11:17 AM
You've got invocations as 6 class points each, I'm not completely clear on how they work, but don't they just make spells into spell like abilities, albeit just a smaller list? Are they at-will rather than using up slots and that's why they are more expensive?

Invocations are the Worlocks and Dragon fire Adepts spells, which they can use at will.
Spot on, as theya re at will, they are more expensive.




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Quick to Act +12May take an additional time at every 4 levels thereafter
Discipline Focus (Weapon Focus)44th level; Martial Discipline"Discipline Focus" features can be taken once every 4 levels; may take this feature more than once
Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance)44th level; Martial Discipline"Discipline Focus" features can be taken once every 4 levels; may take this feature more than once
Sense magic2
Dual boost 3/day420th Level; Martial Discipline




AbilityPointsRequirementsSpecial
Weapon aptitude4
Battle clarity4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Battle ardor4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Battle cunning4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Battle skill4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Battle mastery4"Battle" features can be taken once every 3 levels
Stance mastery420th level



Bel, do you will include base classes from Dragon Compendium?

Sure, I can add them to the list.
I think I might modify the Warblade a little bit, and possibly the swordsage, but other than a few tweaks, they look great!


If smite is a 2point ability, kai smite should probably be 2 pts as well. I thought you had it priced at 4 pts.

Hexblade's curse should probably also be 2 pts, come to think of it.

Exactamundo, Ebon Dragon is in the know.


I was just wondering about how you are going to do the maneuvers for ToB, the most simple would be to handle them as spells?
But I am not sure if that is what you where thinking of doing?

So you would end up with a table like this:



Ability
Points
Special



Maneuver known
5
You gain knowledge of any maneuver as long as you meet its requirements and have the required level1


Maneuver readied
5
You have an extra maneuver readied1


1This also increases your initiator level by 1 max once per level



Maneuver level
Initiator Level


1st
1-2



2nd

3-4



3rd

5-6



4th

7-8



5th

9-10



6th

11-12



7th

13-14



8th

15-16



9th

17-20




I am mostly concerned if it is too expensive or too cheap?

Well, very similar, but cheaper than spells, as they are the inferior nephew to spellcasting.


The artificer has a couple issues. You've confused Metamagic Spell trigger - which they get at 7nth - with Metamagic Spell Completion - which they get at 11nth, and you've negelected to add as a costed ability.

You've priced Craft Homunculus at 2 when Craft Construct costs 1 and allows you to craft homunculi as well as other constructs.

Also, I'm curious about stuff like "Generalist Wizard". Doesn't this ACF lead to a massive cost savings to a prepared spell caster who's buying spells known?

However, why is that prepared spell caster buying spells known? It's much cheaper to buy them as scrolls and transcribe them. Who would pay 2.5 feats for what amounts to a single 1st level spell scroll? That would seem to give prepared casters a pretty huge advantage...

Further, if I'm pointbuying, why would I spend anything but the bare minimum on spell casting till perhaps level 5 or 7 anyway - I could just be a fighter with lots of feats till then, then suddenly pick up spell casting when spells start becoming valuable. Perhaps you need a rule that you must have purchased at least as many spell slots of the previous level to get them at the current level?

Good catches, I'll get those changed and update ASAP.
Yes, Generalist wizard would grant a huge boost, maybe I should increase the cost of it....but consider that it does remove the ability to gain other specific abilities attributed to specializations.

You are right, they could do that, but if they don't want to spend the money, then they can buy spells known via CP. The DM may be running a low wealth game or something similar, and therefore, the ability to buy spells known needs to be there.

Thats a possibility, and one I'm fine with, but I do see it as maybe a slight issue, maybe require 2 spells known before going to next level?
Personally, that just feels like someone who is gishing it up, then concentrating on spells afterwards, a reasonable way to make a character.


Question:
Does Spontanious XXX Casting grant all spells known of the group?
For example; does Spontanious Summon Natures Ally grant all SNA spells? I to IX?

I have built a rather interesting Cleric using;

Domain x2 (Pick 2) (4)
Spells Per day (spontanious) x2 (5)
Spontanious (Cure & Summon Natures ally) (4)

For 13 points at lvl 1 can cast any 2 lvl1 spells per day from a rather large list of spells (4 at lvl 1) (Equivelant of 20 points if bought otherwise, only 8 using this technique and obveously it scales unlike the cost of 20 per lvl that it would otherwise cost) (2 domains, cure and SNA spells)
Obveously at later levels the slots could increase by adding more spells per day (pretty cheap for spontanious casters without the heavy spells known costs)
and spell lists could be increased by just picking more domains... Things like Time and Travel stand out as very good options.

---

Also I would like to point out a small ... well... large discrepancy with the system that irks me slightly, just to show perspective not as an attack. (Because this system is amazing and if I had your adress I would post you cookies for it!)

Some of your features scale as dips; others scale per investment.

For example the Druid is often considered not worth ever PrC'ing due to its scaling features being amazing (ignore PShep)
In this system however the Druid is perhaps the best dip imaginable... for 5 points you can have Wildshape r/HD 1/day and 1 feat letting you cast whilst in wildshape...
For 7 Points you can have that and the Animal Companion... Lifetime warranty.

Casting on the other hand is a veeeeery heavy investment each and every level.
It skewes the value of points very badly to have some powers scale for free and others
be a point cost at each level and it would be perhaps best to consider one or the other.

---

Anyway... thats my 2 cents.

As you can see from my above question and build it is much more efficient to use scaling features than
static ones; at higher levels it become much more obscene.

First off, your idea doesn't work as spells per day has a requirement of a known spell of the same level.
Also, this has made me think to remove the bonus spells from domains. Which would make sense and bring it within the power level of its cost.

And thank! I like it too!

Yes, there are things that do not require any more investment, like the Animal Companion, which in regular gaming, lets be honest, is hardly used, unless the player really works hard to make it worth it. So I decided to make it worth it, by only costing 2, and not having to invest anything else into it, letting it scale with your character level.

I purposefully did that to spells, but made it as close as possible to the actual wizard and sorcerers (I think Ebon Dragon made an example of on the 2nd page), which is quite close.

You may be right about Wildshape, and that will be highlighted at 4th when everyone takes it...lol as it is, everyone in the test game is a cleric/monk chassis


But doesnt this break the purpose of the system a bit? I might be wrong, but I feel that the system is build to mix and choose what abilities you want without any kind of packages?
So maybe leaving the prices at the level of the Crusaders, since the swordsage as far as I can tell is going to pay less if he wants to get his class abilities compared to the warblade, so the swordsage would have more points to spend on the maneuvers?

EDIT:
For the swordsage shouldn't discipline focus(weapon focus) be able to be taken at first level?
And aren't you missing the Discipline focus(Insightful Strike)?

Thats exactly the point, so its going to have to be like the Spontaneous/prepared caster idea.

EDIT: Updated have been made and are reflected in their appropriate locations.

"Fixed the Artificer, tweaked spells known/pre day requirement from 1 to 3. Removed bonus spells from Domain ability."

Jyssika
2014-10-24, 11:44 AM
First off, your idea doesn't work as spells per day has a requirement of a known spell of the same level.
Also, this has made me think to remove the bonus spells from domains. Which would make sense and bring it within the power level of its cost.


Ah; missed that little biscuit!
Although; if Domains grants you Known spell doesn't that allow you to qualify?
Although I think I am remembering domains granting you knowledge of spells you have spell slots to cast... so... chicken and egg... so nvm! :D

Well it still works if you take a single spell per level you want first?
And lets be honest... there is always 1 spell per level worth spending those 5 points on that cant be found in any domains... :D

As to Monk/Cleric... I imagine everyone will be dipping for the Wis to AC and Divine Grace.
Perhaps an extra cost on amazing dips? *shrugs*

Also; pooo removing spells for domains.... *sulks*
(Kinda ruins my idea of a Domain Casting character... Oh wells)
What about Spontanious Cast XXX removing bonus spells for them too? :O

As for domains how about: (this could also perhaps be done for Spontanious XXX or XXX)
2 Points for domain power, 1 point for 1st level spell a further point for each new spell as the character becomes able to
cast them however the character may not skip a spell level and thus for a domain and its entire 9 spells would be 11 points.
Or... I suppose you could go for 1.5/2 points per spell bumping it to 15.5 or 20 for the full domain list.

Why
Maintains a way for Clerics to exist...
I always prefered when divine casters emphasized their domains more; clerics become
such Czilla "I DMM PERSIST xxx and use the most broken spells on my list no matter what diety I claim to follow."

Drako_Beoulve
2014-10-24, 12:34 PM
EDIT:
For the swordsage shouldn't discipline focus(weapon focus) be able to be taken at first level?
And aren't you missing the Discipline focus(Insightful Strike)?
Noted, thank you. table updated.



I think I might modify the Warblade a little bit, and possibly the swordsage, but other than a few tweaks, they look great!


Bel, I modified a bit the table as per Sajro observations.

sajro
2014-10-24, 02:07 PM
Well, very similar, but cheaper than spells, as they are the inferior nephew to spellcasting.

Then what about setting them at a cost of 2 points each? and maybe one should add an ability that adds the refresh mechanics of the 3 classes?
I was thinking it like this:

Swordsage refresh: 1 points
Warblade refresh: 4 points
crusader refresh 4 points

I am very unsure if this is how it should be, because the warblades ability is really powerful, but with this system I can easily see the crusaders exploited, so what do you guys think?

BelGareth
2014-10-24, 02:10 PM
Then what about setting them at a cost of 2 points each? and maybe one should add an ability that adds the refresh mechanics of the 3 classes?
I was thinking it like this:

Swordsage refresh: 1 points
Warblade refresh: 4 points
crusader refresh 4 points

I am very unsure if this is how it should be, because the warblades ability is really powerful, but with this system I can easily see the crusaders exploited, so what do you guys think?

I am, working on it right now, your ideas are very on par with mine.

BelGareth
2014-10-24, 03:46 PM
Maneuvers


AbilityPointsSpecial
Warblade Recovery system & readied maneuvers
1 maneuver or stance known3You gain 1 maneuver or stance known of any level that you can learn from the Warblade list of disciplines, as long as you know at least 2 maneuvers or stances of a lower level.
Crusader Recovery system & readied maneuvers*
1 maneuver or stance known2.5You gain 1 maneuver or stance known of any level that you can learn from the Crusader list of disciplines, as long as you know at least 2 maneuvers or stances of a lower level.
Swordsage Recovery system & readied maneuvers
1 maneuver or stance known2You gain 1 maneuver or stance known of any level that you can learn from the Swordsage list of disciplines, as long as you know at least 2 maneuvers or stances of a lower level.


* = Until you have a total of 3 known maneuvers, you maneuvers are only usable 1/encounter.

The maximum maneuver or stance level you are able to learn is limited to 1/2 your character level.

Jyssika
2014-10-24, 04:45 PM
This is totally broken bro; Crusader Recovery method +1 maneuver = Minotaur Stone Death Hammer of Zero Prerequisites every round.
Basically Crusader random maneuvers readied and are recovered after all used becomes very broken if you only have 1 maneuever.

Perhaps:
The character gains the recovery method of their choice once they have x number of maneuvers; until then they may recover maneuvers
as a full round action asthough they have the feat.

Also I think you have a typo; of instead of or?

BelGareth
2014-10-24, 05:06 PM
This is totally broken bro; Crusader Recovery method +1 maneuver = Minotaur Stone Death Hammer of Zero Prerequisites every round.
Basically Crusader random maneuvers readied and are recovered after all used becomes very broken if you only have 1 maneuever.

Perhaps:
The character gains the recovery method of their choice once they have x number of maneuvers; until then they may recover maneuvers
as a full round action asthough they have the feat.

Also I think you have a typo; of instead of or?

hmmm, good point, and yeah i got that typo everywhere except here....

I might just add in a clause if they only know one maneuver....acts like the feat until they have 3 or more.

EDIT: finished the Binder and Soul Binding.

Jyssika
2014-10-24, 05:48 PM
hmmm, good point, and yeah i got that typo everywhere except here....

I might just add in a clause if they only know one maneuver....acts like the feat until they have 3 or more.

EDIT: finished the Binder and Soul Binding.

Yey *Feels like she is helping!*

Would point out ways to abuse binder but I have no idea how Binding works... because I am a closed minded
person who rarely takes the time to learn the obscure systems within 3.5...

I will have a look through it though! Perhaps your amazing bake-your-own-character binding will actually make
me want to learn it! :O (After all we cant all take Wildshape right? :O)

Ah....

You also need to specify how many maneuvers a character can have readied at any given time...
Are we to presume it is as a lvl1 of their chosen recovery class and never increases? What about
a small cost of 1 ton increase readied maneuver numbers at equivilent levels to when the class of
your recover can?

(For example 10th and 20th for crusader)

Or... is the restriction on "Must be a Crusader/Must be a Warblade" lifted on the Feats (Extra granted maneuver and extra readied maneuver?)
However presumably it would have to have a limit to may only be taken x number of times?

SterlingDS
2014-10-24, 07:09 PM
Thats a possibility, and one I'm fine with, but I do see it as maybe a slight issue, maybe require 2 spells known before going to next level?
Personally, that just feels like someone who is gishing it up, then concentrating on spells afterwards, a reasonable way to make a character.



Think maybe there's some confusion with what I meant - I didn't write it clearly after all.

What I meant is this - you could have a character that does the following

0th level spells known - 1, 0th level slots - 1
1st level spells known - 1, 1st level slots - 1.
2nd level spells known - 1, 2nd level slots - 1
3rd level spells known - 1, 3rd level slots - 1
4th level spells known - 5, 4th level slots - 8
etc

and therefore get the benefit of high level casting without having spent much of the standard investment a normal caster would have.

Point being, if you wanted it to look more like the standard D&D distribution you could add a requirement that to have X slots of Y level, you have to have at >= X slots of Y-1 level. (possibly with the exception of 0th level spells?)

Jyssika
2014-10-24, 07:25 PM
Yes; but that entirely destroys the point of "pick what you want spell casting".
Otherwise you might as-well just choose from a set of progressions...

But yeah; basically it is really open to abuse...
Perhaps EACH 9th should require an 8th, and that a 7th... and so on.
So at WORST case a character could have; 4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4,4. Casting
As opposed to 1,1,1,1,1,1,1,4

Phrased: May have no more spells of a certain level known or castable per day than any level of spells lower than it.


Maybe if you wanted more freedom.

May not have more spells of a certain level know or castable per day than the sum of the two levels below it.

Allowing for;
1,1,2,3,5,8,9,9,9
1,1,1,1,2,3,5,8,9
1,1,1,1,2,2,4,6,9

Although that seems to basically incourage top heavyness...

Pehaps no more than of either the two levels below it; whichever is higher?

Allowing for:
9,0,9,0,9,0,9,0,9
9,5,3,5,0,5,4,5,5

..

*shrugs*

SterlingDS
2014-10-24, 07:47 PM
Nother small issue I see with your TOB rules - dunno if this is on purpose or not

But your rule requiring 2 manuevers known of a lower level to have the next level up does mean that neither the Warblade nor the Crusader would get access to their higher level maneuvers without investing in more manuevers known than either class normally would have to.

For example, the warblade only knows 12 maneuvers by 17nth level, but has access to 9nth level maneuvers at that point. The classless version has to have 16 maneuvers.

However, all the TOB classes allow the mechanic of trading out lower level manuevers for higher ones. Is that 'built in'? Maybe that fixes it? For instance, let's say you got to 6th level, with the following.

1st - 2 manuevers
2nd - 2 manuevers
3rd - 1 manuever. - now I trade up a 1st level manuever for 3rd level one 'breaking' the progression that I already had, but I'd be ready to buy a 4th level manuever when I hit level 7.

Jyssika
2014-10-24, 07:51 PM
Nother small issue I see with your TOB rules - dunno if this is on purpose or not

But your rule requiring 2 manuevers known of a lower level to have the next level up does mean that neither the Warblade nor the Crusader would get access to their higher level maneuvers without investing in more manuevers known than either class normally would have to.

For example, the warblade only knows 12 maneuvers by 17nth level, but has access to 9nth level maneuvers at that point. The classless version has to have 16 maneuvers.

However, all the TOB classes allow the mechanic of trading out lower level manuevers for higher ones. Is that 'built in'? Maybe that fixes it? For instance, let's say you got to 6th level, with the following.

1st - 2 manuevers
2nd - 2 manuevers
3rd - 1 manuever. - now I trade up a 1st level manuever for 3rd level one 'breaking' the progression that I already had, but I'd be ready to buy a 4th level manuever when I hit level 7.

Perhaps every 4th maneuver could be bought at a reduced point cost if a maneuver is traded in?
Perhaps half the cost?

SterlingDS
2014-10-25, 03:06 AM
Perhaps every 4th maneuver could be bought at a reduced point cost if a maneuver is traded in?
Perhaps half the cost?

Yes - or you could count stances in the requirement.

Oh, another thing that's missing - where's the monk's scaling unarmed strike damage?

BelGareth
2014-10-25, 09:07 AM
Think maybe there's some confusion with what I meant - I didn't write it clearly after all.

What I meant is this - you could have a character that does the following

0th level spells known - 1, 0th level slots - 1
1st level spells known - 1, 1st level slots - 1.
2nd level spells known - 1, 2nd level slots - 1
3rd level spells known - 1, 3rd level slots - 1
4th level spells known - 5, 4th level slots - 8
etc

and therefore get the benefit of high level casting without having spent much of the standard investment a normal caster would have.

Point being, if you wanted it to look more like the standard D&D distribution you could add a requirement that to have X slots of Y level, you have to have at >= X slots of Y-1 level. (possibly with the exception of 0th level spells?)

This was fixed with requiring 3 spells of a lower level.


Yes - or you could count stances in the requirement.

Oh, another thing that's missing - where's the monk's scaling unarmed strike damage?

It's there, somewhere....

I am going to change the Warblade and Crusader prereq to 1 known.

Too tired to do or say anything else.......................

Ebon Dragon
2014-10-25, 09:43 AM
Improved unarmed damage a la monk can't be taken 'till 4th level for some reason. It probably shouldn't have been, tbh.

Also, I feel that there should be a cap on how many times you can take Soul Binding Level +1, probably amount of times=Character level.

Otherwise you run into stupid crap like level one characters spending 19 pts to bind buer in exchange for unlimited healing (Not a big deal at higher levels since it's slow and hp pools are deep, but quite powerful at level 1) or 14 pts if improved binding is something you can snag at level 1.

Jyssika
2014-10-25, 11:23 AM
A) This was fixed with requiring 3 spells of a lower level.

or


B) This was fixed with requiring 3 spells of the previous level.

Cos

A basically means; take 3 Cantrips/lvl 1 spells... then take as many 9th lvl spells as you like.

1st 3,
2nd 0,
3rd 0,
4th 0,
...
9th 15!

sajro
2014-10-27, 05:17 AM
Sohei


Ability
Cost
Requirements
Special


Defensive Strike
1 points
7th level



Ki Frenze 1/day
4 points

Can be taken once every 4 levels


Remain Concious
1 points
5th level



Strength of mind
2 points
5th level




This is my first try at converting an class for this system, so I would like to receive some feedback, and if I seem to have grasped it correctly I might do some more.

qazzquimby
2015-05-08, 01:44 PM
It seems many abilities are meant to only be taken once, but this is never mentioned, as far as I can tell.



Ability
Cost
Prerequisite
Special


Mutations
2




Monster Sage
1




Teratomorphism X
4
2nd level
Begins as Teratomorphism I. May take an additional time for every 3 levels you have above 2nd, with X incrimenting each time.


Mutant Ascendancy
4
10th level



Mutant Perfection
4
20th level




The current spell prerequisites are kind of silly. I do not think previous spells should be required, to have later spells, as that requires taking abilities you don't necessarily want, which is out of the spirit of a classless system. I would handle spells with a scaling cost. As was mentioned, spells only start "getting good" at later levels, so I would suggest later level spells cost more to acquire. I also think it should be possible to forget previous spells known and replace them with spells of the highest level you are capable, to some degree.

sajro
2015-05-15, 08:29 AM
Well I like this system too much to just leave it be, so I am here posting my ideas for incarnum:




Ability
Cost
Requirements
Special
Effect


Basics of Incarnum






Essentia Pool
1

Can be taken at every level
You gain 1 essentia


Shape Soulmelds
2

Can only be taken once
You can shape 2 soulmelds


Soulmelds
1
Shape Soulmelds
Can be taken multiple times
You learn 5 soulmelds


Extra shaping
1
Shape Soulmelds, level 2
Can be taken at level 2, 4 and every 3 levels
You can shape an extra soulmeld


Open Least Chakra
2
Level 2, Shape Soulmelds
Can be taken multiple times, but only one at level 2
You open one of the following chakras: Crown, Feet, Hands


Chakra Binds
2
Level 2, Shape Soulmelds
Can be taken once every four additional levels
You can bind 1 Soulmeld to a chakra


Open Totem Chakra
4
Level 2, Shape Soulmelds
Can not be taken at level 2 if you already opened a least chakra
You open the Totem chakra for binding


Open Lesser Chakra
4
Level 9, Shape Soulmelds, Open Least Chakra
Can be taken multiple times
You open one of the following Chakras: Arms, Brow, Shoulders


Open Greater Chakra
4
Level 14, Shape Soulmelds, Open Lesser Chakra
Can be taken multiple times
You open the Waist or Throat Chakra.


Open Heart Chakra
4
Level 16, Shape Soulmelds, Open Greater Chakra
Can only be taken once
You open the Heart Chakra


Open Soul Chakra
4
Level 19, Shape Soulmelds, Open Heart Chakra
Can only be taken once
You open the Soul Chakra


Advanced Incarnum






Expanded Essentia Pool
1
Level 15, Essentia Pool
Can be taken every level
You gain 1 essentia


Expanded Soulmeld Capacity(+1)
1
Level 3, Shape Soulmelds
Can be taken every 2 levels
When shaping one soulmeld have increased capacity (+1)


Expanded Soulmeld Capacity(+2)
2
Level 15, Expanded Soulmeld Capacity(+1)
Can be taken once every level
When shaping one soulmeld have increased capacity (+2)


Expanded Chakra Capacity(+1)
2
Level 2, Open Chakra
Can be taken once
When chosen: one Chakra grantis +1 essentia to bound soulmeld


Expanded Chakra Capacity(+2)
2
Level 15, Open Chakra
Can be taken once
As above but +2 instead of +1, this removes the above feature


Chakra improved Meldshaper
4
Level 6, Expanded Chakra Capacity
Can be taken once
The chakra chosen in ECC now have +1 meldshaper level


Rebind Soulmeld
4
Level 8
Can be taken again at 12th, 16th and 20th level
You now rebind a new soulmeld to the chakra chosen with ECC


Rapid Meldshaping
4
Level 5
can be taken once for every additional 6 levels
You can use the Rapid Meldshaping 1/day


Incarnate Specific






Incarnum Radiance
4
Level 2, Soulmelds
Can be taken once every additional 5 levels
You gain the Incarnum radiance ability 1/day


Share Radiance
4
Level 7, Incarnum Radiance
Can be Taken again at level 17
You gain the Share Incarnum Radiance ability, taken twice you are not fatigued


Perfect Meldshaper
4
Level 20
Can only be taken once
You gain the Perfect Meldshaper Feature


True Incarnation
4
Level 20
Can only be taken once
You gain the True Incarnation feature


Totemist Specific






Totems Protection
2
Level 3, Totem Chakra Open
Can only be taken once
You gain the Totem protection Feature


Totem Double Bind
4
Level 11, Totem Chakra Open
Can only be taken once
You gain the Totem Chakra(Double Bind) Feature


Totem Embodiment
4
Level 20, Totem Chakra Open
Can only be taken once
You gain the Totem Embodiment Feature




Yes I know that some of the features doesn't exist, I chose to rework some of them to benefit in different ways, such as the Chakra Capacity, which is a reworked version of the Totem Chaka(+1) feature, so that is the reason that some features are under the general part, and not one of the classes.
I haven't done the Soulborn, because I am not sure about it at all.