God-Emperors (brainstorming)

[Vorpal Pete]

There were plenty of ancient (and not so ancient) cultures in the real world that believed that their king/emperor was a god. Carried out to the fantasy genre, it would be very possible to have a king or emperor who actually is a god, a demigod, or an avatar of some sort.

This is a sort of brainstorming thread to consider including a god-king in the campaign I'm thinking about. I would very much appreciate input.

So how would this play out in a game set in the capital city of the empire? I suppose you could have clerics of the god-king. The god-king's temple would likely have a prominent place in the nation's politics.

PCs could meet the god-king. The god-king could bestow powers on them directly if he saw fit, or destroy them in the blink of an eye. There would be the risk of a serious Elminster syndrome here. A good DM would stay away from having the god-king directly involved as a mentor or quest-giver, except perhaps in an atonement sense. "You made me angry. Go do X useless and dangerous task to prove your regret."

There would be a danger of the god-king eclipsing all the other gods in the pantheon by virtue of being physically present. That assumes the existence of a regular pantheon, of course, as there was in Egyptian or Mayan belief systems. An alternate option would be to put all the gods directly on the planet, possibly as rulers of other nations or as hermits/mysterious travellers. This might make a playability problem, since PC clerics might feel like they're being railroaded into worshipping the local god-king.

Would the god-king be immortal and simply rule forever? Or would he die and his godhood pass into his progeny?

What would be appropriate limits on the god-king's power to keep him from simply willing any national problems out of existence?

I think Darksun had god-kings, but they were essentially just very high level cleric-wizards.

I'm interested to hear how you would approach this issue.

[JackofAllBlades]

Maybe use godkings as prophets.A specific God grants power to the king.It would work good in a low level magic campaign(where arcane casters or divine caters are rare so the godking could have the less existant one) i guess,since many dont have magical powers and godkings do. Also there should exist a balance in powers granted;no immortality,no powers based on solely will of the person(i mean godkings thinking shouldnt be able to kill or such)

[Closet_Skeleton]

Give them Divine Rank 0 and 20 cleric or wizard levels. Give them Gestault Cleric levels if you really want them to be special. You might consider Half-Celestial as an alternative or supplement to Divine Rank 0.

Alternatively the God-King could just be a Lich or a Polymorphed Dragon. Maybe that Prc in Draconomicon that turns a Dragon into a pseudo-god. Fiend Folio has a Fiend of Blasphemy Prc that could be another possibility.

[Vorpal Pete]

What's divine rank 0? And what's gestault cleric levels?

So you think the god-king would be too powerful as an actual god? It seems both of you are recommending a toning-down...

[Inyssius Tor]

Ah, it appears you need to familiarise yourself with all the stuff (http://www.d20srd.org/) WotC is required to give us us under the Open Gaming License; divine ranks (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/divineRanksPowers.htm) are the most Core way to advance gods, and Gestault ([sic]; it's supposed to be gestalt, though no one spells it properly) characters basically combine the best parts of any two (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) classes (BAB, special abilities, skills, proficiencies, spells, etc).

Usually, gods are waay powerful; a Wizard 20 is capable of completely messing up the universe on his own, but he probably has bigger fish to fry. A god on earth is practically obliged to do so; if Emperor is his only thing, he has nothing better to do than alter reality away every problem that could ever conceivably trouble his constituents. If he does have more epic issues to handle, then why would he bother with commoners? To him, they're like ants; boring, weak, irritating, tiny and inconsequential. For that matter, why only some of them? There are other planes, and a major deity can handle ants at almost any volume.

[Closet_Skeleton]

What's divine rank 0? And what's gestault cleric levels?

So you think the god-king would be too powerful as an actual god? It seems both of you are recommending a toning-down...

Divine Rank 0 is part of the Divine rules. If you're using a god in the real world you might want to take a look at them in the SRD http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/divine.html. Gestault Cleric levels basically means that he casts spells as though he was a cleric of his level. Full Gestault rules are at http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/unearthedGestalt.html. You don't need the Divine rules if gods are seperate creatures on that never leave their own planes but if a god exists in the real world the players might want to challange him.

I would assume that a God-Emperor wouldn't be a full powered god but that's mainly because real world ones were purely human. I don't see why one wouldn't be a full god but that would really shoot up the power level of the world really high. If there's a god walking around they'd probably be quite a lot of Epic Characters and Demigods wandering around as well. If a full god is on the material plane you're changing the expectation of the cosmology a lot from core. I'm not saying it's a bad thing but you have to think through what effect it will have. Like the giant said, don't just make a world that's Grey Hawk but on a giant tree, think about what kind of a world would really exist on a giant tree.

[akira72703]

I think you should lay out the god kings strategies/motivations/ways of thinking first. Is he a ruthless conqueror that wants to take over the world, or is he benign and enlightened (or some combination of the above.) Alot of how he interacts with the world will be solved by simply deciding on how he views the world and his motivations for interaction with the world. He should have an agenda and that is what he should be persuing. The godking should definitely have representatives whether they be clerical or simply beurecratic (possibly in the vain of I represent the god kings will even though the god king has never made his will known to you for the corrupt type and then theres always the truly pious) As far as his abilities go, hes a god, he can pretty much do whatever he wants as long as his actions stay consistent with his motivations etc.
I have a homebrew where one of the main antagonists is a god king, and he basically serves as a backdrop for some of the action in the game. (Mainly in the form of manipulating his priesthood and followers against his mortal enemy, the other god king on the continent) The PC's have never directly interacted with him (and probably will not) but they have thrown some massive wrenches into his plans.

[ASCIISkull]

In my campaign I have two kings who ascended to godhood. Both quickly abandoned running their empires. One left a barren wasteland of his country due to his efforts to gain godhood, and the other left behind a prosperous empire, giving his semi divine son the crown and a healthy dose of divine right to rule.

Then of course, there are all the guys who tried to jump on the celestial bandwagon and failed spectacularly. Turns out that you can't repeat a trick...

[Emperor Tippy]

Just make your "god" emperor a level 20 wizard, sorcerer, cleric, druid, or psion.

A level 20 wizard has the power to literally destroy armies in a day. A level 20 cleric can resurrect someone 10 years dead with no part of their body. A level 20 psion can literally reprogram someones mind from the moment that the person was born.

If your campaign is relatively low magic (most people top out at casting 4th level spells or so) then you have an excellent god character with just a wizard 20. Make him an Elan if you want immortality.


Real gods get way to broken. Even a demigod is nigh unkillable before level 30 or so. The higher level gods aren't killabel until you get your own divine rank of a level reasonably close to theirs.

[Collin152]

Just make your "god" emperor a level 20 wizard, sorcerer, cleric, druid, or psion.

A level 20 wizard has the power to literally destroy armies in a day. A level 20 cleric can resurrect someone 10 years dead with no part of their body. A level 20 psion can literally reprogram someones mind from the moment that the person was born.

If your campaign is relatively low magic (most people top out at casting 4th level spells or so) then you have an excellent god character with just a wizard 20. Make him an Elan if you want immortality.


Real gods get way to broken. Even a demigod is nigh unkillable before level 30 or so. The higher level gods aren't killabel until you get your own divine rank of a level reasonably close to theirs.
Which is why they maintain the throne; it's like natural selection for royalty- The one's that don't get killed are either wel loved by the people or powerful enough that his people ar respected out of fear.

[Vorpal Pete]

Okay, cool. I like the divine rank zero thing, more or less, and I think akira is on the right path as far as developing the god-king a little first. This campaign idea is really in its infancy, but let's see what I can come up with now...

Let's say the campaign is mid-magic, with a few powerful items instead of a profusion of +1 items and similar small magics. The NPCs run the gamut of levels, with journeymen being 4th to 8th level in their classes. There are perhaps 100 individuals between 16th and 20th level in the city, though many of these people have only NPC classes.

After seeing an illustration of the plane of shadow in a sourcebook and reflecting on some great video games (Silent Hill and... Legacy of Kain, I think it was?) I want to run a game in which the players repeatedly cross the boundary between the material plane and the plane of shadow. However, rather than just having the plane of shadow be one of many planes without real mythological connotations, I want there to be something sinister in the plane of shadow connected to this city.

That brings me to the god-king idea. Perhaps the present god-king usurped the throne from an older god-king. I suppose I should give them names so I can talk about them without getting them confused, but I don't want to throw syllables together without meaning, so for now I'll call them the prime-king and the shadow-king.

The prime-king somehow tricked the shadow-king into entering an empty mirror plane of the city, I'm thinking, where the shadow-king became imprisoned. Over time his rage and bitterness transformed the empty city into a nightmare landscape and peopled it with monsters. Now somehow the PCs will be drawn into the shadow-city again and again. I haven't worked that part out yet.

I imagine the prime-king as jaded, bored, and dangerous. The affairs of his government have grown too banal to interest him, and he delegates his governing powers to a cadre of sycophantic bureaucrats, all too eager to snatch the reins of state. He richly rewards anyone who can pique his interest, even for a moment. He may punish those who he finds particularly tiresome. As I brainstorm about it the whole thing is taking on a sort of Chinese Emperor feel...

[Shadow of the Sun]

I thought of a campaign where all the gods avatarized instead of ruling in the upper plain. This avatar would have incredible power, but limited compared to the god would be if he was in his normal form. You would still tap divine power from your god, but the god either didn't realize it or didn't care. The villain had found a way to kill the avatar and contain their divine energies within himself, like Sylar in Heroes.

In a god-king scenario I would make it so that a Paladin had to be instated by his god-king.

Also, I have to ask, in DnD don't you only really need a certain number of worshipers to become a bona-fide god? It would be interesting, if the first god-king obtained his powers by spreading around stories of him being a god, and his followers believed him, then he woke up as a god. His children gained the mantle after him, and soon who ever was seated on the throne became a god.

[Rumpus]

While I'm sure this isn't what you are going for, a possibility is to have the god-king be a regular mortal, say an Aristocrat 5. All the historical rulers who pulled off being god-kings did so by creating a sense of majesty and mystery about themselves, as well as violently suppressing anyone who questioned them. In this case, obviously he can't grant spells, but I think it would be hysterical to watch the PCs discover that the person they've been running errands for and quaking in terror before only has 30 hit points. Real potential for a "Pay no attention to the man behind the curatin!" moment.

Another option would be a diluted divine bloodline. Maybe the founder of the nation went through apotheosis, and now his descendents sit on the throne claiming to be him reincarnated (or actually reincarnated). While it's not core mechanics, maybe the ONLY divine power the king has is to grant cleric spells to loyal worshippers (maybe he can't even cast them himself). That would both prove his divinity while giving him a reason he's sticking close to home.

[Caelestion]

I had an infamous LE lich archmage who seized control of a small jungle city and formed a vast empire over the course of two centuries. His arrogance was such that he believed himself almost unto divinity and his hapless subjects agreed, worshipping him as a living quasi-deity. In so doing, he later ascended, leaving behind his avatar to govern his empire.

[knightsaline]

make the god-emporer the avatar of the god but make it so that they must stay within the alignment of the god they are the avatar of. (in other words, if syreth is LG, delasp, the Walker of Syreth, MUST BE LG all the time. failure to do so results in a modified VGOG targeted on the Walker and the walker alone. the god themselves chooses the emperor and chooses a new one once the old one dies. the emperor only rules due to the grace of the god the emperor serves. I can imagine what some CN god would say when his Walker is unfit to do his duty "this one is broken, i want a new one"

[Ceres]

I do in fact have a god-king in my campaign-setting. However, it is very unclear to the player exactly who or what he is, or indeed if he is alive. I've surrounded him with many myths, and made him a mysterious character. I can't give you the details, as my players might read this forum, but I would recommend you to create some mystery armound him, so that the eventual meeting will be even more interesting.

But if you just want a plain, no-nonsense god-king I recommend you to take a look at Imothep in the "dieties and demigods" book, as he is a pretty good template for a god-king.

I also sympathise with Emperor Tippy's suggestion to just make him simply a wizard or cleric lvl 20, since they are actually very powerful at this level.

Or just do as I would have done: Homebrew the hell out of him!

[EffigyOfFaith]

I really like your godking idea. I fact I may steal/borrow it. I think that in my game the godking will have stumbled acrossed an imprisioned powerful being, maybe a god or a demigod, and some how the godking is using a portion of this imprioned being divine power to fuel his own god-like action. This could include granting spell to his clerics. This makes for sort of a combination of the man-behind-the-curtain, with healthy dose of very real power. The pay off when the PCs discover that the Godking's prisioner should be excellent, and lead naturally to big and better adventures.

Cheers