Magic using Charlatan

[Unregistered]

Hello everyone,

our group is going to be playing D&D 5 in the forseeable future and I'd like some advice on building the character I have in mind. ATM I only have access to the Basic rules but I'll be able to borrow the player handbook.

I'd like to play a magic using crook/charlatan: you know, passing off as someone else, leaving without paying, selling worthless crap for high prices etc. So background is pretty much fixed as "Charlatan". It should be a human (or maybe a forest gnome but I definately prefer human). Spell selection is specialized on enchantment/illusion and spells that help get away. We're using the fixed array for the ability scores (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) and the optional rule of feats (meaning I'd chose the optional rule for humans that get them a feat - even though ATM I don't know what feats there are.).

Skill selection probably: From Class: Arcana, Insight; from background: Deception, Sleight of Hand; from human: Perception. (Deceive others, realize when others try to deceive me and spot trouble in advance).

So, first (and probably most important) question: Wizard or Sorceror? I have to say, story-wise, I favour the learned wizard that realized that he can make easy money. Also, I don't really like the sorceror's subclasses from what I heard (dragon blood or wild magic); if it's going to be sorceror then certainly wild magic (not that I know what this entails but dragon blood is out of the question). A clear plus for the sorceror is of course that deception and spell casting both use Cha. On the other hand, I never played Wizard before in D&D because of the spell casung mechanic and apparently in this edition, it is much easier to do so.

For stats I thought
- If Wizard: Str: 8, Dex: 14 (13+1), Con: 10, Int: 16 (15+1), Wis: 12, Cha: 14
- If Sorceror: Str: 10 or 8, Dex: 14 (13+1), Con: 12, Int: 10 or 8, Wis: 14, Cha: 16 (15+1) [Can I viably use Int. as dump stat when selecting a Sorceror?]


For spells: "Light" is a must as a cantrip per DM ruling (I must have the ability to see in darkness).

So, what are you suggestions class-, stats-, skill-, spell- and feat-wise?

Thanks in advance!

[Inevitability]

Sorcerer has one major perk in that it has Subtle Spell. One of my players took it at the last level-up, together with Suggestion. I am now shaking in fear when I think of what he's going to do. :smalleek:

I'd go for a sorcerer 3/wizard 17 build myself.

[Unregistered]

OK, thanks already. Subtle spell - as I said, I don't have access to the PHB ATM so I don't really know how exactly things work - seems indeed to be pretty powerful when combined with enchantments.

I should add that multiclassing is probably out of the question as well.

[Daishain]

Why not Rogue? The Arcane trickster variant to be specific.

They have fewer spells up their sleeve, but are built around doing exactly what you're talking about doing, using magic to swindle, trick, and steal from others.

[Foodle]

Human Bard or Sorc with the Actor feat would be what you're looking for i think.
Bard is a full caster now, getting up to level 9 spells, along with being able to pinch some spells from other classes spell lists at certain levels, giving it quite a bit of flexibility. It also gets expertise for some of your skills, making those out of combat encounters that much easier.
Sorc gains you Focus points (i think that's what they're called), which you can spend to regain used spell slots or for fueling your metamagic.

And yes, mechanically you're safe to dump INT for most classes (There are very few INT saves in the game so far). RP-wise though only if you can stand being stupid.

[Person_Man]

Yeah, I agree that Arcane Trickster Rogue would probably fit the character concept perfectly. You have a few low level magic spells you can pull off, but really you're just a con-artist pretending to be a great magician when you're not. (Basically Golderoy Lockhart (http://harrypotter.wikia.com/wiki/Gilderoy_Lockhart), but with Sneak Attack). On the down side, at mid-high levels you would be weaker than a Wizard or Sorcerer, since Arcane Trickster Rogue is probably one of the worst sub-class options in the Player's Handbook.

Bard would also work. But a mid-high level Bard is probably the most powerful and versitile classes in the game, because they get full casting, an open ended spell list, Skills, and floating buffs. That's not a charlatan, that's someone who is legitimately uber-powerful.

[Unregistered]

Why not Rogue? The Arcane trickster variant to be specific.

They have fewer spells up their sleeve, but are built around doing exactly what you're talking about doing, using magic to swindle, trick, and steal from others.

My first character idea was indeed a Rogue with Arcane Trickster but two things: 1st another player wants to fill the "Rogue" spot and 2nd: only starting at 3rd Level can I splay someone who uses magic to swindle people. But I'd like to play that kind of character from class 1. But the Arcane trickster is definately my backup character if somehow the Wizard/Sorceror does not work out.



Human Bard or Sorc with the Actor feat would be what you're looking for i think.
Bard is a full caster now, getting up to level 9 spells, along with being able to pinch some spells from other classes spell lists at certain levels, giving it quite a bit of flexibility. It also gets expertise for some of your skills, making those out of combat encounters that much easier.
Sorc gains you Focus points (i think that's what they're called), which you can spend to regain used spell slots or for fueling your metamagic.

And yes, mechanically you're safe to dump INT for most classes (There are very few INT saves in the game so far). RP-wise though only if you can stand being stupid.

Hmm, hadn't thought of the bard, I'll have to take a look. What does the Actor feat do?

I thought having a low intelligence but good wisdom could mean I'm not book smart but street smart (if these are the correct terms). But I have to say, I am not happy that we use the fixed stats because I dislike having a negative ability modifier (whether it's being a weakling, dumb, clumsy, ugly or whatever).

[Intercessor]

I am playing a magical Charlatan in my first campaign in 5e, I chose Warlock and it's working out great, I get a good blasting cantrip and most of my spells and invocations can be used for my schtick. Plus the Cha skill synergy. But the fluff is not for every character, and I've seen enough people complain the Warlock is underpowered. (In my party it's a Half-Elf Warlock [me], Halfling Rogue, Dragonborn Cleric, and Human (variant) Fighter.) The fighter is a TWF and has been getting the most kills, other than maybe the Cleric because she used her breathe weapon on a line of kobolds longer than its range. It was a one hit KO for most of them.

[Callin]

Why not a conj wiz. The lvl 2 ability to create all sorts of mundane equipment that looks magical...

Create a "potion" and sell it then book town

[Shadow]

I'll second the Bard suggestion. Bards are pretty much amazing in 5e, and exactly fit the flavor of what you're looking for.
Grab a component pouch for a focus and ignore the song fluff if you like.
Decent dex and finesse or ranged weapons makes for acceptable (not great) weapon combat.

In addition, if your DM allows multiclassing, two levels of Warlock grants great at will ranged damage on par with a fighter (with eldritch blast cantrip and agonizing blast invocation) and some at will control (from repelling blast invocation), and the possibility of burning hands as an offensive spell from slots if you need a little close range AoE from the fiend pact (plus a fiend pact will fit well with the coniving nature of the character), which actually makes a warlock 2 / bard X good at damage dealing combat as opposed to just illusion/enchant/control in combat.
Grab a tool proficiency for thieves' tools and then he truly becomes a Jack-of-all-Trades. Damage, control, healing/support, party face, trapper.... everything.

And the Bard even has a subclass that fits your preferred "learned" concept, from the College of Lore.
Seriously, the Bard is what you're looking for from this concept.

[Foodle]

Hmm, hadn't thought of the bard, I'll have to take a look. What does the Actor feat do?I'm away from my book atm, but from what i remember it grants you the ability to mimic voices of someone you've observed for a period of time and grants your advantage on all social checks to pretend to be that person. I think it might possibly also grant +1 Charisma.

But that feat paired with the "Disguise Self" level 1 spell and expertise in Deception and you could bluff your way into or out of most situations.

[Shadow]

I'm away from my book atm, but from what i remember it grants you the ability to mimic voices of someone you've observed for a period of time (yep) and grants your advantage on all social deception and performance checks to pretend to be that person. I think it might possibly also grant +1 Charisma. Yes, it does.

But that feat paired with the "Disguise Self" level 1 spell and expertise in Deception and you could bluff your way into or out of most situations.

notes in blue
Note that Bards get disguise self and expertise, and as he stated above, these things and the feat will make you the ultimate con artist.
Along with the two levels of warlock granting combat options other than weak weapon attacks and control, it also grants you two 1st level spell slots that refresh on a short rest, making you able to effectively disguise yourself at will for a very good portion of the day.

[WickerNipple]

Bard, without a doubt.

[Unregistered]

OK, thank you all for your suggestion (if you have others, they're of course welcome). I will take a look at the bard when I have the book though I am not really sure if I can get the image of the singing ministrel out of my head.