Races for a Horror Setting

[Renrik]

I'm having a problem. I don't know which races to use for a horror setting. I'll describe a bit of the setting.


The Multiverse.
The material plane and its transistory planes are a lonely bastion of sanity in a horrific universe. It is sheilded from the terrors of the Far Real, the aberrant Elder Evils and other such creatures, bu the thin and porous wall that is the Dreamscape, through which nightmarish creatures still slip. The biggest hole in the Dreamscape is the Abyss, a rift into the FarRealm where a degenerate race of demonic creatures, deformed spawn of the horrors of the Far Realm, dwell.

Note: The outer planes don't exist, or at least I haven;t decided to creae them. The paragraph above is basically the description of the multiverse. Most extraplanar creatures dwell in the Far Realm, the Abyss, the Dreamscape, or the Astral Plane (between the Dreamscape and the Material Plane).

Note: No alignment exists. Using the Taint mechanics found in Heros of Horror.

The World.
The world is a dark place, with the sunken ruins of old and terrible empires hidden in the land, forgotten horrors left buried, and new dangers ever emerging.

I've set on only three races so far; the humans, elves, and dwarves. I didn;t want t use the gnomes beause they always seem t get played as eccentric comic releif, and halflings didn't seem appropriate to the setting. I'm pretty sure I'll use the Illumians, too.

THE HUMANS
The humans of this campain world are from several diffferent kingdoms, but all of them are bound together by a single power; the Light. The Church of the Light is the only mainstream religion in human culture. The other religions consist of cults and secret druidic circles. The Light's main mission is to eradicate all taint. They hunt down tainted creatures and their servants, cleanse tainted sites, and destroy forbidden lore. Their methods can be harsh, but the majority of clerics of the Light are truly good-hearted people who seek to protect humanity, at any price.
I've determined that the human cultures should probably have a western feel to them; I don;t think I'll be using asian cultural design or middle-eastern (I might consider it, but in some ways the Light is somewhat like the Catholic Church in Europe during the middle ages; a institution that controls many walks of life and is almost universally followed, so European feel seems best; that said, it is fantasy, so there could be a variety of human cultures. Other than The Light, you can't make any generalized statements about humanity.)

THE ELVES
The elves are an isolationist people, who look down as humans as barbaric and foolish, and look at dwarves as allies of the Elder Evils. The Elves have a special place in their society for the Elder Evils, as they are the ultimate villains in elven lore. In the distant past, the elves were enslaved by the Aboleths, spawn of the Elder Gods, and since then the Elves have hated all abberations even more than they normally would, and they trust very few people.

The elves follow a code of laws, the High Laws, set down by the first of the great kings, descendants of the ruler who rose to power as the elves freed themselves from the aboleths. These laws state that the elves must follow certain codes to ward against the touch of the Elder Evils and their spawn. Though all other laws are somewhat mercurial and can be changed, the High Laws are considered sacred, and cannot be altered.

The Elves are divided into two people, the Sel'esti and the Sae'esti, and have been ever since the Parting, the great civil war of the elven people to decide rulership of their kingdom. In the end, the two feuding parties split into two seperate, rival kingdoms and became monarchs. Sel'Esti and Sae'esti do not like eachother at all, regarding the other as a lesser race and followers of a false king and false laws, but they tolerate eachother's existance a little bit more than they do the existance of other peoples.

To approach the kingdom of the High Elves, the Sel'esti, is to invite death, for all tresspassers within their lands are slain, without exception. The Sae'esti, the Grey Elves (actually, the Grey Elves in this world are like the High Elves in the Monster Manual, and the High Elves are like the Grey Elves.) are a little more open, but still incredibly distustful. The third subrace of elves are the Que'esti, or the Dark Elves, the Lost Elves, who are not a species but somply a title placed on outcasts of their original race. Que'esti are exiles, regarded as scum who are traitors to all elves, and for a Que'esti to enter elven lands is death.

THE DWARVES

The dwarves are a people with no central government, instead being composed of small thranedoms, with a complicated system of alliances and alleigances between the thranes and their clans.

The dwarves worship their anscestors. Not in the sense of veneration and respect, but in a sense of true worship. Dwarven religion is heavily steeped in the ancient rites of necromancy, whch the dwarven death preists are the masters of.

I haven't made much more data on the dwarves yet, and am still working on fleshing them out.



I have these three main races, but I need more. I can make human cultures and flesh out the dwarves, but I still need more races.

I have determined a am likely to use the Illuminati from RoD, and maybe have goblinoids be a playable race that is much hated by the others, but I still need more races. Can you think of a way to flavor gnomes or halfings to be acceptable to a horror setting? Does anyone have any other races that would be appropriate to the setting?

[Fuum Bango]

This is just a simple idea, but how about Halflings no longer trusting anyone not of thier race after years of wandering into towns full of tainted people. Perhaps now they live in one isolated but giant city that is so large houses are built on house and disease is everywhere, which they blame on the other races.

[Renrik]

xenophobic halflings...

ironic. I like it. I'll have to think on that some more, flesh that out some...

Halfings living in one giant city or a series large cities... it gives the chance for gritty, city-based campains with xenophobic halflings. Plus, it's quite possible that the hafling cities are largely being eaten away by taint....

That shall be option A for halflings, so far.

[EvilElitest]

You could make the halflings like gypies, wanders who dis trust everyone and have a highly superstious nature. they steal and kill for to live and outsiders are not welcome into their camps.
Have the gnomes be swords for hire. The races is not unitied in the least but now is spread across the land as millions of mercany camps with little oginization or order, working for whoever pays them the highest. They tend to be dour and distrustful. many are cruel and sadistic as well. They often become bandits or start gangs in the larger cities.
You can have half orcs be a real generic race rather than a just crossbreeds. They have orginized as a race of highly devout, supersticous and xeniphobic tribal people who live in the most tainted regions of the land, were they worshiop strange creature and preform vile rituels.
from,
EE

[Zeta Kai]

Mind Flayers make for great agents of the Ancient Ones. A little bit of hell on earth never hurt anyone. BwaHaHaHaHa...

[Fuum Bango]

Sup, I've just had a idea for the Gobliniods (Half-Orcs, Goblins and Hobgoblins combined). As the older races fade into hiding, the green skins gained a empire of sorts, branching away from the dark mountains and into abandoned palaces and well kept elven woods, they watched as the others ran away from the taint...but the Goblinoids were not about to return to the old ways now thy had a taste of the high life.
So they agreed to collectively rid the world of taint. So thats nice right?, but here the hook; they're still really evil. They'll kill a vile outsider, then pillage the village it was attacking.
To contrast with the other races they should be all about brotherhood and honesty eath other members of the race, brotherhood like Fight Club; Fist fights to solve problems and drinking each others blood to become "family". They shouldn't hate other races either and any evil character of any race can join a group of Green Skins if they pass a harsh and painful test.

[Renrik]

I like the halfing ideas, but I need to think of a way to make them a little more high-fantasy style. Dark high fantasy, not so gothic as much as Lovecraftian, but with some psuedo-gothic elements. In the city idea, they have a chance to have a xenophobic and urban society in a city where only a few very large urban centers exist. Which is good. In the gypsie idea, they have a chance to remain closer to how halfings are protrayed in base D&D, but with a new twist, and not adding large urban centers. Either way, we need to find a way to make halfings fit inot the kind of feel for the campaign.

The gnomish idea is okay, but I don;t see gnomes as mercenaries. Granted, greedy and evil gnomes who do anything for money is a nice idea, but mercenaries?

I like the goblinoid idea very much. I have imagined goblinoids as a militaristic, expanionist society made of warlords living in small territories, who constantly war with achother and their neighbors. I imagine a martial tradition for them, maybe borrowing from Gorbash Kazdar's thread on weapons of the savage races. I imagine they will be constantly at war with the dwarves and possibly encoraching on elven territories. Their conflict with the dwarves probably rules out necromancy as part of their religion, as they would probably hate the dwarven death priests. Of course, their relationship with the creatures of the Far Realm and of Hell is yet to be determined. Are they worshippers of abberations? Do they ally with demonic forces but dislike abberations? Do they oppose all spawn of the Elder Evils? What is their religion? I'm thinking probably some kind of cult allying the goblinoid tribes with demonic froces from the abyss. That has potential, I think.

So, we need to flesh out the halfling ideas or get new ones, think of some more gnome ideas, and get a few new races to add into the mix.

[thehothead]

I'm guessing that right after the hole-portal-thingy opened up or came into existance or whatever it did, explorers went through it to find out about the other side, most of them probably died, but not all of them would have. Their descendents, which are at this pont horribly mutated, split into two groups, one which gave in, no, cherished the evil about them, and the other resisted it.

The cherishers are now a cruel evil race, which has gained dark powers, and the resisters are the opposite, and probably have paladin as their favored class.

[MegasquidMan]

two syllables: Yuan-Ti.

Cruel, secretive, alien in their own right. Perhaps Yuan-Ti can fit somewhere in your campaign universe. :smallbiggrin:

[Fax Celestis]

Anthropomorphic Aboleths. Beholder-kin. Half-Illithid Lizardfolk.

[MegasquidMan]

Anthropomorphic Aboleths. Beholder-kin. Half-Illithid Lizardfolk.

Tch, why don't we call it the "Aberrant Campaign", while we're at it? :smallmad:

I know I like Aberrations as much as the next guy, but use them too much, and they're boring. They're the most powerful when they're in the least amount of numbers.

Hmmm.. however, in terms of the paranoia aspect of the campaign, I would suggest looking up on Keepers. They're the Outsider equivalant to the Men In Black (not the movie version). I know the Fiend Folio picture of them looks kinda gawky, but if you've seen Dragon Issue #353, they look much better. More ominous.

[The_Snark]

I like the setting. I agree with Megasquid, too- abberations are best used sparingly, unless you actually end up in the Far Realms. And definitely be sparing with humanoid abberations; if there are any, there should be a good reason why they're humanoid (mind flayers and the products of their twisted experiments are good examples). There should never be an abberation that's useable as a PC; if it's still PC-suitable, it shouldn't be an abberation.

Kaorti, from Fiend Folio, might make good antagonists; their given story is actually kind of similar to the events that created your Abyss. They could easily reside deep in the Abyss, or closer to the surface. Not a playable race, obviously.

I like the idea of halflings as gypsies. That's what they are usually, of course, but I like the idea of taking some of the more negative stereotypes; they're rumored to be thieves and murderers. Very closely knit families, because they can't trust any of the other races, and very established customs- maybe they have to give hospitality for a night to those who ask them politely, and can't harm their guests; but if they feel put upon, they'll follow their former guests and slit their throats the next night. In a campaign where all the races are a bit darker and gritter, this works well, I think.

[Renrik]

I'm definately going to be using the halfings at this point. I've been thinking more and more about the gypsie ideas and some of the thoughts ecpressed therein shall become a baseline for the halfing identity; a mistrustful, small folk that are ostracized by society and live by darker means. They are still OK among themselves, and decent folk overall, but they have a more distict dark side than usually seen in base D&D. Hobbits, hese are not.
For some reason, I almost have an urge to give them plumed tails. Like a lion has. Don;t know why. Maybe, maybe not.

I think I'll give the Yaun-Ti a society in some jungle-like area far to south of the main part of the campain world. But they'll make appearances in other parts. I can definately build adventures around them. I need a souther jungle anyway, to house all the monsters that are appropraite to a southern jungle.

Kaorti will definately be used. I'm going to take a look at the Keepers in about ten minutes to see if I should use them. I'm considering the cherisher/resistor race, though I am likely to give them a different name if I use them.

So far, for player races:

Humans
Elves
Dwarves
Halflings
Goblinoids(?)
Illuminati

I have access to a lot of the sourcebooks, but I haven;t found too much stuffto build major societies and cultures off of from them. So most of the PCs will be choosing from the above list, plus any other I add.

I'm considering making special stats for humans of different countries. Humans are underpowered already, anyway, so I'll just give them a minor boost in something depending on their culture.

[ArmorArmadillo]

A good horror race set-up is to have a race previously thought to be weak and "in-check" (Kobolds, Goblins, Kenku) and suddenly have them becoming more threatening and aggressive.

Things are all the more scary when you feel like they shouldn't be.

[Rumpus]

Not sure whether all these races should be playable. One of Lovecraft's central themes was a terror of the unknown and possibly unknowable "other". Any race that you make playable automatically stops being mysterious. If the players have enough detail about all these groups to pick them as PCs, you'd probably have to skip to aberrations pretty quickly.

I really like the gypsy halfling idea, but I'd outlaw them as a player race initially, letting the players wonder what's really going on with them. Actually, I'd probably only allow humans and maybe elves initially, with the players provided a xenophobic initial campaign introduction that makes the players scared of everything "other". If it turns out the halfling gypsies (or whoever) are okay after all, maybe allow replacement PCs of that race (it's not a horror campaign without an occassional body count!). A society of dwarf necromancers is really going to throw most PCs for a loop, but it robs them of a great in-game moment if they are told about dwarf society when initially setting the backdrop. Much better to have them walk into a dwarvish citadel for the first time and be surrounded by zombies shuffling around doing chores in the dark.

[Vorpal Pete]

How about mongrelmen? They're horrible and easily shunned... they'd be great in a horror setting, both as PCs and NPCs.

[The_Snark]

Halflings could be PC races or restricted at the start of the game either way, but I'd keep mongrelfolk as NPCs. They're not all horribly ugly and easily recognized... most of them can be mistaken for other common races. The tall dwarf with the short beard that lives down the street, the short human with maybe a hint of elf blood, that little half-orc who got lucky and inherited mostly from her human mother... any of them could be mongrelfolk. You'd never know.

I also reccomend changelings, doppelgangers, and skulks as nonplayable humanoids. They all run more or less around that same theme, but a little more ominous.

[onasuma]

as maybe a non-player race: Half Undead.
Probably would be hard to work out but thats not my problem. It just seems cool.

[Rumpus]

Ooh, savage gnome cannibals. I would have said pygmies, but since they are already so short, what would be the point? Or maybe not so savage, they might have a highly developed society, and just happen to eat their own (plus any outsiders they catch).

I'd still say restrict the PCs to 1 or 2 races, and tell them horrible stories about all the others at the beginning. Then, the first time they encounter another race, have it all be true. ie "Oh my gods! The halfling gypsies really do slit throats/kidnap teenage girls/eat human babies!" After that, the players will always be paranoid of "others", and the DM can decide with each group as it is introduced whether it is basically ok or a warped psychotic version of itself. Maintaining uncertainty about the motives and goals of others is essential to do Lovecraft-style horror.

[EvilElitest]

About the halfling gypies, i am not talking about the ones friendly travlers from D&D. Base them off of real gypies. I'm sorry about what i'm going to say, but real life gypies as a culture scare me. I will never mess with a sociaty that views lying, stealing, trickery as a means of living. They also have many ritual, cultures, and myths that are no understood by outsiders (these are the real life ones). Their also very hated in Europe. I don't hate them, i have a strange facination. Have the halfling be good people, but have highly ulterior motives all the time and always try to work for the highest price. Might not make good player characters.

Have gnomes be sell swords. Why? Because they will focurs their intentive skills on weapons of war, change their love for life to semi satanic love for fighting, and have their demeror change from silly to cold. They would be scary becuase PCs would expect something far more nice from gnomes, so these ones while not evil, but really cold would be scary to the extreme.

Kenkue are a nice race to use as well
from,
EE

[Vorpal Pete]

...I'd keep mongrelfolk as NPCs. They're not all horribly ugly and easily recognized... most of them can be mistaken for other common races. The tall dwarf with the short beard that lives down the street, the short human with maybe a hint of elf blood, that little half-orc who got lucky and inherited mostly from her human mother... any of them could be mongrelfolk. You'd never know.

Mongrelfolk aren't mixed blood PC races... they're freaks with random animal/goblinoid/you name it parts. The tall dwarf with the short beard, lobster claw, melted face, tufted ears and two club feet who lives down the street at the circus.

[Weirdlet]

I think you could have halflings as both belonging to a huge city, and as gypsies/wanderers- two halves of the same xenophobic coin, some staying 'safe' in their decaying city, while others wander and bring back supplies in meandering, secretive trade-routes. Very paranoid that way- maybe sometimes the city goes hungry because the caravans can't shake the feeling that someone's following them and so they double back and wander too long and the grain spoils, that sort of thing.

[The_Snark]

Mongrelfolk aren't mixed blood PC races... they're freaks with random animal/goblinoid/you name it parts. The tall dwarf with the short beard, lobster claw, melted face, tufted ears and two club feet who lives down the street at the circus.

I'm pretty sure we're talking about different mongrelfolk by now... I'm thinking of the ones from Races of Destiny/Fiend Folio. The Fiend Folio implies they're all twisted little goblin-creatures, whereas Races of Destiny says that's exactly what the mongrelfolk would like you to think, and really most of them can be mistaken for members of other races without much difficulty. Neither includes non-humanoid blood, which is why I think we're talking about two different races with the same name...

Personally, I think the Races of Destiny take on the humanoid-only mongrelfolk is better overall and for this particular game. If a creature has as much elf and dwarf as goblin and orc, there's no real reason it should favor the goblin and orc sides. And the Races of Destiny mongrelfolk are still slightly creepy, similar to doppelgangers and changelings.

[MegasquidMan]

Hmm... I always used to prefer 2nd Edition Mongrelfolk, and kinda used Fiend Folio's version as an adaptation... but I guess one can be better than others. I mean, who says a Displacer Beast HAS to look ike 3rd edition's version (I don't they're too ugly)? I prefer the Jet Black Jaguar/Panther with spikey Tentacles and glowing green eyes anyday.

Anyways, getting on track, I wonder what out creator of this campaign has thought up since we last saw him.

[Renrik]

I will definately be using the halflings, and am considering using both the city idea and the wanderer idea.

The gnomes, I am still not sure of. I need to find a way to make them both high-fantasy and midly flawed and dark as well. They can;t be as perfect as in the base D&D. That's what ruined them as a race to begin with. The gnome sellsword idea could work if they had a very martial culture, which, given the gnomish racial traits, I don;t quite see. The gnomes seem to me to be a naturally magically-gifted race, but the elves already fill that bracket, and so the gnomes have to have other talents. War doesn;t seem like a gnomish talent, but hen again, I am trying to get rid of gnomish steryotypes. Nonetheless, they're so small, and unlike in halflings, they don;t seem to have an affinity for guerilla warfare so much as homestead defense. I imagine whatever culture they have will be a small one. Perhaps the halflings are wanderers, and I adapt the city idea to the gnomes, confining them to a few cities. But that might only strengthen gnome steryotypes. Plus, if I use the Illuminati, then I already have a cloistered and xenophobic society of scholar-types.

I think I'll take Rumpus's advice in restricting the PC races that are initially available. The other ones can be allowed to be PC races as the setting becomes more defined.

I will certainly be looking into cultural traits for humans.

[Fuum Bango]

A quick one before my computer crashes again, why not have the gnomes die? What better way to show how harsh the world is that killing the jesters.

Or better yet, when the taint came the gnomes vanished, most say they are dead but some think they live on in illusion covered towns... or better yet they all left for the dreamscape, transforming themselves into powerful Outsiders that fight for the good of the world! (Dun dun dun)

[thehothead]

If you want to shatter the gnome stereotypes, make THEM the xynophobic people, and make them ultra serious. It could be that their actual personality is humerous and happy-go-lucky, but they've frowned on that view of the world since the rift opened up.

[Fuum Bango]

Ok, I'm going to have to cut in here before every race becomes xenophobic.
I have a idea, Gnomes have left the material plane for some magical hide away in the Dreamscape.
They're good guys on the whole, still humourous but their dark side is very dark.
Some Gnomes have begun using their illusion magic, hightened by the Dreamscape, to make people on the material plane do things for them. Like pretending to be messangers from their gods or a ghost of a dead friend, all to stop the Evil.
They have been changed by the Dreamscape, they should act alien and have motives most folk can't understand. Some travel to the world as spies and soldiers.

[EvilElitest]

Here is an idea for gnomes

The gnomes once had a great empire. however the rift from the far plane opened in their lands and it was destroyed. The gnomes were devastated. 90% of their race was destroyed and they had long sense lost the will to repair such damage. They hid themselves in forgotton dwarf keeps. Their they turned inward and started using illusion magic to create the empire anew. Soon they lived in a great empire, but a fake one. Their realm had not truth to it, but the gnomes, who had long sense given up on real hope deluded themselves into thinking it was real. After a few generations, when the survivers of the orginal empire had long sense died, the new generation had lived their lives in the illusionary empire. They were never told it was fake or that their race lived in a decline. Many of them took illusion sponces and died thinking that they had make their race stronger with more children. The race dwindled and dwindled. The illsuion has taken a mind of its own, and now the gnomes have no control over it.
A bit like the Matrix
Some gnomes break themselves free of the curse and flee the grand Illusionary cities to experience the real world. However they are realized that the real experences are better than a fake. And so many of find pleasure in causing others pain, just to feel the experence. Many sadist and masicists among them. Some go made and become ceral killers. Other become so disillusioned with the real world and simple become mernaries, using their tech skill to unleash major destruction.
from,
EE

[Fuum Bango]

Here is an idea for gnomes


Other become so disillusioned with the real world and simple become mernaries, using their tech skill to unleash major destruction.
from,
EE

BA DA BUM, TSSSHHH

[Demented]

The gnomes once had a great empire.

Or do it the Space Opera way.

The gnomes once had a great empire. Then, so many years ago, they either vanished or were destroyed under mysterious circumstances, leaving behind traces of a vast and technologically powerful civilization.

On the one hand, that means you can make powerful gnomish relics and superweapons available to the few.

On the other hand, you'll need a way to escape cracks about "Gnomes from space!"

And anyone who finds a Gnomish Pentium processor will need to die a burning, heretical death.

[EvilElitest]

Or do it the Space Opera way.

The gnomes once had a great empire. Then, so many years ago, they either vanished or were destroyed under mysterious circumstances, leaving behind traces of a vast and technologically powerful civilization.

On the one hand, that means you can make powerful gnomish relics and superweapons available to the few.

On the other hand, you'll need a way to escape cracks about "Gnomes from space!"

And anyone who finds a Gnomish Pentium processor will need to die a burning, heretical death.

You could do both, as the orginal empire is left abanded, while the gnomes are content with their fake one.
from,
EE

[Clementx]

Am I the only one that thinks that a race perfectly suited for deceit and enchantment, while physically weak, should be slavers? It would show off the dark and twisted side of the Enchantment school (it would also help if Irresistible Dance was changed to Irresistible Retching). They are insular and mysterious because they don't associate with other creatures unless they have them Dominated/Charmed/are glamored to all hell. It is a race who have a casual attitude about crushing the will of others, and selling them to the highest bidder as livestock/laborers/sacrifices as it suits them. If you want them to be urban, focus on arcane casters. If you want to them to rural, mix in more Druid to their Bardness.

Personally, the first thing I want my players to think when they meet a gnome is the picture for Shadow Landscape in the Spell Compendium, not Gimble the Bard.

[The_Snark]

Am I the only one that thinks that a race perfectly suited for deceit and enchantment, while physically weak, should be slavers? It would show off the dark and twisted side of the Enchantment school (it would also help if Irresistible Dance was changed to Irresistible Retching). They are insular and mysterious because they don't associate with other creatures unless they have them Dominated/Charmed/are glamored to all hell. It is a race who have a casual attitude about crushing the will of others, and selling them to the highest bidder as livestock/laborers/sacrifices as it suits them. If you want them to be urban, focus on arcane casters. If you want to them to rural, mix in more Druid to their Bardness.

Personally, the first thing I want my players to think when they meet a gnome is the picture for Shadow Landscape in the Spell Compendium, not Gimble the Bard.

I like this idea. If you want to include all the standard PHB races for some reason, this is the gnome interpretation I'd take. Gnome warriors is taking the gnomish stereotypes and turning them around in a way that comes close to silly, and any long dead empire or race of dream beings loses some credibility when the PCs find out they're gnomes. It's just the association most players have with gnomes—they're lighthearted and vaguely comical. Making them slavers is somewhat like what making halflings dangerous, unpredictable thieves does; it takes the D&D standard and makes it darker.

You can use the earlier urban ideas you had for halflings for the gnomes, too. They don't have to be cloistered and xenophobic; on the contrary, they cheerfully welcome traders and visitors to their cities, which are somewhat dark and sleazy. Whether you ever leave again, of course... that depends on how careful you are. They have access to powerful magic, and so you can purchase spells and magic items there... for a hefty price, and you'll need to watch your back so you don't find you've been maneuvered into a slave cell using illusions or simply dominated. Amoral and greedy.

Hmmm. I may have to end up stealing some of these ideas, mostly the halfling and gnome portrayals.

[Fax Celestis]

Am I the only one that thinks that a race perfectly suited for deceit and enchantment, while physically weak, should be slavers? It would show off the dark and twisted side of the Enchantment school (it would also help if Irresistible Dance was changed to Irresistible Retching). They are insular and mysterious because they don't associate with other creatures unless they have them Dominated/Charmed/are glamored to all hell. It is a race who have a casual attitude about crushing the will of others, and selling them to the highest bidder as livestock/laborers/sacrifices as it suits them. If you want them to be urban, focus on arcane casters. If you want to them to rural, mix in more Druid to their Bardness.

Personally, the first thing I want my players to think when they meet a gnome is the picture for Shadow Landscape in the Spell Compendium, not Gimble the Bard.

So....illithids?

[Renrik]

I'll consider the ideas for gnomes. The slaver idea is definately growing on me (there are going to be so many fallen empires in this game it wouldn;t be very good for that idea.).

[EvilElitest]

Wouldn't Drow or Mind Flayers work as better slavers?
from,
EE

[The_Snark]

So....illithids?


Wouldn't Drow or Mind Flayers work as better slavers?
from,
EE

Everyone's used to that by now, though. Elves in this world have been established as extremely xenophobic and certainly not inherently good; we don't need an evil version of them running around to confuse things. Mind flayers are much less likely to trade with outsiders, particularly in this setting, where they're presumably inimical beings from the Far Realms.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned neogi—that's what they made me think of. But since cordial contact between abberations and non-abberations is even more difficult than usual in this world, neogi don't work—and having the slavers be a humanoid race that isn't famed for being evil means that the PCs are less likely to look at gnomes and immediately assume that they're enemies. In a horror setting, that's a useful edge; nobody is going to be surprised by cruel drow slavers, but cruel gnome slavers are a bit more surprising.

[Clementx]

You know, that is what PHB gnomes are missing- tentacles and exploding into swarms of spiders to reproduce.

Sure, it does overlap with other races. But why would you need those races if gnomes are more-core, less abberation-ZOMG, and unsettle the players more? Remember, you have to scare the players, not the characters. In a perfect world players would be just as surprised and horrified by mind flayers eating brains. But they have been reading about them doing that since 1st edition. After all, they are mind flayers- they can't help it.

I am actually going to apply my own idea to my setting, which has a lot of parallels to the OPs (with undead in place of abberations as the primary horrific invasion). I had been hand-waving PHB races with minor roles away to far-off corners of the world to center the game on horror. Now I realize I should have made them all equally unfortunate as the central fallen human empire.

[EvilElitest]

My only question, before you leave my idea to die
Gnomes are really good with illusions. Matrix can be made to be scary.
While i admit i like the slaver idea, i want to point out that wouldn't a race better with enchanting magic be suited.
from,
EE

[Renrik]

Yeah, they're both good ideas... maybe the gnomes are a secluded people who withdraw from the troubles of the world and hide themselves using illusion magic in their great hidden cities where they keep their enslaved ousiders?

[MegasquidMan]

You know, that is what PHB gnomes are missing- tentacles and exploding into swarms of spiders to reproduce.

Sure, it does overlap with other races. But why would you need those races if gnomes are more-core, less abberation-ZOMG, and unsettle the players more? Remember, you have to scare the players, not the characters. In a perfect world players would be just as surprised and horrified by mind flayers eating brains. But they have been reading about them doing that since 1st edition. After all, they are mind flayers- they can't help it.

I am actually going to apply my own idea to my setting, which has a lot of parallels to the OPs (with undead in place of abberations as the primary horrific invasion). I had been hand-waving PHB races with minor roles away to far-off corners of the world to center the game on horror. Now I realize I should have made them all equally unfortunate as the central fallen human empire.


tentacles and exploding spiders, eh?

yeah... THAT'S WHAT THE HALF-FARSPAWN TEMPLATE IS FOR!!!! :smallfurious: (oh, and BTW, if a PC becomes a Half-Farspawn... IMHO, they should become so insane or so far mentally different to be considered playable anymore... do H-F's make decent villains... possibly)

seriously... anyways... Renrik, I figured though you may not have any current use for the Yuan-Ti- some obvious mentionings about them should be stated:

-They do INDEED affiliate with the demons from the Abyss, because they feel that the demons are much like themselves with their cold cunning, and predatiousness.

-They are secretive, but do make it known that they are spreading their temples and outposts throughout the jungles.

-Their society's basics, hoestly, I could see being a cross between Sumerian and Mezo-American or Incan: something that a Europea-based culture like that of the humans in your campaign would not cope with too easilly (especially the sacrifices, and gladitorial battles against the fierce animals that lurk in the jungles shadows, beit Jaguars, Pythons, or even Displacer Beasts).

-Also, they definetly make more of their kind through rituals (abducting beings who venture too far into their territory, and forcing bitter poisons into their victims, which, although do allow them to slowly turn into Yuan-Ti, also have a slight chance of killing them in the process.).

-The God they worship is, if you want it to be, Merrshaulk (he's also known as Sseth, if you prefer a more atypical name), who is a demonic god who wants to envolope the world in chaos and venom, to eventually corrode it, and destory it.


I figured that possibly to have Gnolls also reside in the jungle too, but the Yuan-Ti have been effectively mowing down their numbers, as sacrifices and as conversions of New Yuan-Ti. Gnolls, like the Yuan-Ti, are most likely unplayable, becuase they are more animal than humanoid. They are, however, very in tune with nature: The rocks, the plants, the rivers, the wind, the sky, the sun, and the moon... Gnolls understand nature.

Oh yes, one more thing about these Gnolls: They're not sided with anything from the Abyss or Far Realm (I know that your campaign isn't alignment-based, but technically.. Gnolls aren't "Evil", just seperatist), and they hate the fact that the Yuan-Ti are encroaching on their land.

That's all I got for now.

[MegasquidMan]

Yeah, they're both good ideas... maybe the gnomes are a secluded people who withdraw from the troubles of the world and hide themselves using illusion magic in their great hidden cities where they keep their enslaved ousiders?

That could work.

Yeah, kinda like gorilla city in DC comics, right?

[EvilElitest]

Yeah, they're both good ideas... maybe the gnomes are a secluded people who withdraw from the troubles of the world and hide themselves using illusion magic in their great hidden cities where they keep their enslaved ousiders?

Wait, waht if they used their illusions to make their victom think they were in some sort of safe place. They could have an entire enslaved race who are convience they must do X work for some reason or another. And every year, they must banish X amount of people. And when a guy "dies" in a war, he is in reality sold as a slave (there are no real enemies)
scary
from,
EE

[MegasquidMan]

Just bringing this topic from Undeath to see what you've come up with, so far.

I'm always interested to see what others can come up with when it comes to atypical campaigns, especially if the idea is thought out.

[Matthew]

I'm considering making special stats for humans of different countries. Humans are underpowered already, anyway, so I'll just give them a minor boost in something depending on their culture.
Veh? I like the idea of creating Human 'Sub Races', but underpowered? That runs contrary to my understanding of Humans in D&D 3.x.

[EvilElitest]

Visitini anyone?
from,
EE

[Caledonian]

Sure, it does overlap with other races. But why would you need those races if gnomes are more-core, less abberation-ZOMG, and unsettle the players more? Remember, you have to scare the players, not the characters. In a perfect world players would be just as surprised and horrified by mind flayers eating brains. But they have been reading about them doing that since 1st edition. After all, they are mind flayers- they can't help it.

Eating brains? Mind Flayers don't eat brains. That's just silly - they eat the same things every other race does.

The four-tentacles-to-the-head thing is how they reproduce. Like in Alien, only with less chest-bursting and more slow, hideous transformation.

[Demented]

Well, if Mind Flayers don't eat brains, who does? Aasimar?

[Caledonian]

Don't have anything eat brains. It's trite and overused.

[The_Snark]

Eating brains? Mind Flayers don't eat brains. That's just silly - they eat the same things every other race does.

The four-tentacles-to-the-head thing is how they reproduce. Like in Alien, only with less chest-bursting and more slow, hideous transformation.

Well, yeah, actually. They do eat brains. Reproduction's a little different, and does not involve four tentacles to the head; just one tadpole to the head. They also eat other things, but brains are necessary for some reason.

[GuesssWho]

Definitely be sparing with humanoid abberations; if there are any, there should be a good reason why they're humanoid (mind flayers and the products of their twisted experiments are good examples). There should never be an abberation that's useable as a PC; if it's still PC-suitable, it shouldn't be an abberation.
How about half-farspawn? (By the way, that template is inherited.)

And as for illithids, I think they do it to power their psionic abilities of something.

[Caledonian]

Well, yeah, actually. They do eat brains.

I rather think you're missing the point.

If you insist upon leaving Mind Flayers in the unaltered state, try having Phantom Fungi that reproduce through a sting. It won't be expected, and it's not such a cliche as brain-eating.

[The_Snark]

I rather think you're missing the point.

If you insist upon leaving Mind Flayers in the unaltered state, try having Phantom Fungi that reproduce through a sting. It won't be expected, and it's not such a cliche as brain-eating.

Ah, right. I did miss the point, I think. I like mind flayers as-is, but that would be a neat alteration; your player will be grateful that his brain wasn't eaten, right up until he starts taking ability damage. Fun, and much more unexpected, which is good in a horror campaign.


Half-farspawn are good, since they have a reason to be humanoid. But again, sparing. The Elder Evils don't create progeny very often. And after a few appearances, they lose shock value. Shock value is important.

[Caledonian]

And after a few appearances, they lose shock value. Shock value is important.

Absolutely.

Here's a thought for an encounter: the party is set upon by a pack of starving, emaciated wolves. Then, suddenly, the wolves panic and run off.

What's coming? And why can't the party detect it?

[Rama_Lei]

Keep gnomes as sort of comic relief. But make them cannibals, who kill and eat travelers.

[MegasquidMan]

Keep gnomes as sort of comic relief. But make them cannibals, who kill and eat travelers.

yeah, that seems like a complete contradiction, to me. It's like saying, "Yeah, I want my Orcs for to war-like and savage, yet I want them all to be into the fine arts and smoke pipes, wear fezes, and sit in comfy armchairs!"

Can we PLEASE keep the Illitids as is, PLEASE?! They're good as is, and the fact that they EAT brains makes them hostile and stand-offish.

Also, HF (as much as I like them) should not be used too much (not as stricly as most Aberrations, but they're not typical characters), and humanoids of the same template try and keep their abnormalities covered (i.e. baggy clothes, robes, cloaks, jackets), to keep suspicion at an all-time low. Infact, Akhando from Lords of Madness s a good example: he has two green tentales sprouting from his waist, and he has alien eyes with golden irises on his left hand up to his forearm, so he wears baggy clothing, and keeps his hand gloved.

However, there is more to him than just the blatantly abnormal: His skin is pale, and the look in his eyes seems feverish and intense (imagine someone pissed off and staring daggers at you and your soul, kinda like that), as well as the picture shows him with his hair standing on end (which actually loks unnatural for a typical human, but not for Akhando). It's the little and the big things that you have to think about.

[GuesssWho]

That's true.
And since the alternative is probably to get shot or stabbed, that isn't too surprising.

[Rama_Lei]

Hey, the joking is a front. And who says cannibals can't be funny.

[EvilElitest]

BA DA BUM, TSSSHHH

Nice


Anways, you could make the gnomes world like the Matix, only illusions instead of computors. And more scary
from,
EE