View Full Version : Spell suggestions please

2007-03-17, 05:23 PM
I've looked over the sorceror spell optimization thread but those spells are core only and for generic sorcerors. I'm having trouble deciding what spells to take. Here's a quick rundown of my guy.

Dwarf Rogue//Sorceror 3 and will be played in an all sneaking campiagn. Pretty much all books are open for this. I have

Unearthed Arcana
Tome of Magic (for what it's worth)
Spell Compendium
Magic of Faerun


Thanks in advance.

2007-03-17, 05:37 PM
Orb, Lesser spells. All of them. My warmage Rogue practically lives off them. 1st level spells that scale in d8's, ranged touch no save no SR? Thank you!

Get some of the damaging cantrips too, because you can add sneak attack dice to them.

Invisibility when you can.

2007-03-17, 05:58 PM
Uhh, this is a scorcerer, so take 1, maybe 2 if you really think you need them. I would take a different energy type when you get the regular orb spells, maybe lesser fire and normal force.

Take glitterdust, as it is useful to anyone, but I would say focus on illusion spells, like invisiblity and disguse, and some enchantment, like the charm spells. Silence would also help(can't hear you).

In can't really give any detailed spell lists, but thats my take.

2007-03-17, 06:35 PM
Grease is a good choice. People are denied their Dex to AC when balancing (unless they have at least 5 ranks in balance), which makes them Sneak Attackable. And almost nothing actually has ranks in balance.

2007-03-17, 06:36 PM
Well, as you're only a third level sorcerer, you know...5 0 level and 3 1st level spells? I'd definitely make your level 0 lineup look like:

0 - Mage Hand, Dancing Lights, Light, Ghost Sound, Prestidigitation

These spells are amazingly useful! Always remember that Light and Dancing Lights make great distractions, as does Ghost Sound. Mage Hand should be enough to open doors at a distance (if they're unlocked), pull levers, push buttons, tug a rope...generally tricksy stuff. These are essential to the "Jedi force tricks" package for a sneakster. Also, work on picking up Open/Close, Mending (reseal documents so they were "never opened"), and Message (great for quiet conversations without high level casting).

For your first level suite, there ARE certain combat spells that prove useful (Shield, the Lesser Orbs, Magic Missile), but as a rouge you should be relying more on your sneak attack / flanking / etc. You didn't mention whether or not you are the primary arcane caster or not...if you are, then yes, the more combat spells are almost necessary, but if you have someone being a dedicated (or nearly dedicated) wizard, focus your spells more on those that will come up often. I'm looking at things like:

Disguise Self, Reduce Person (bonus to hide and move silently...you're sneaky, remember?), Jump, Feather Fall, Expedious Retreat, Animate Rope, Color Spray, Ventriloquism, Silent Image, Color Spray, Charm Person, Sleep, Hypnotism, Obscuring Mist, Grease, and Hold Portal.

That's way more spells than you can take, and many of them overlap in function. Wands are a great (and relatively cheap, compared to potions/scrolls, etc., especially since you can purchase partially charged wands at scaling prices) way to access non-save spells you may need but don't want to spend an actual spell slot on, like Jump, Feather Fall, Animate Rope, Obscuring Mist, Reduce Person, Ventriloquism, and Hold Portal. So that leaves a more manageable list. I'd advocate a list like:

1 - Disguise Self, Sleep OR Charm Person (both are better than Hypno, usually, and you really only need one...Charm is likely best), Silent Image

This basically expands your "Jedi Mind Tricks" bag by giving you a better disguise, the ability to bypass guards, and a great fall back to hide strategy. Silent Image may be Concentration duration, but the ability to create a distraction or hide while the guards run past is invaluable.

I hope that helps you out!

2007-03-17, 06:48 PM
thanks guys, I do appriciate the advice and I hope it keeps coming

2007-03-17, 08:10 PM
As a Dwarf you take a -2 hit to Charisma so instead of playing a sorcerer you might consider playing a UA Spellcaster and using Intelligence for your primary ability.

You get more skill points that way and a bonus feat instead of a familiar but you can still use it to get a familiar if you wish.

Even better it opens up all arcane and divine spells lists (Divine Favor, (the ability to use a Cure Light Wand or even better a Wand of Lesser Vigor 1 which does double the healing of the average Cure Light Wand over a period of 11 rounds since both spells are on your spell list)) on a side note several prorated wands (20 - 25%) are generally more useful than a single fully charged wand and ECs eternal wands are nice for lengthy adventures at 2 shots a day.

Spell selection depends on your style, your group and your campaign IMO.

I like the following cantrips:

Prestidigitation (Good up to 1 hour and moving up to 1 pound objects) and one of the best of breed.

Read Magic (Some of your own or other party member or treasure scrolls) gives you a lot more options with a litlle gold for some scrolls particularly with a Heward's Handy Haversack.

Acid Splash moderately more useful for a rogue sneak attacking (Get Electric Jolt if your choose to Take Acid Orb Lesser to have different style attacks).

Dancing Lights (10 Rounds) Send as far ahead as 130' for investigating with your current PC.

Caltrops can be useful for slowing down pursuit instead of a grease or in conjuntion with a grease and the area increases up to five 5' by 5' cubes at level 5 spellcasting.

Mage hand is useful but is gets abused alot IMO. The spell is limited to one nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 pounds with a range of 25' + 5 feet per 2 levels. You point your finger at an object and can lift it and move it at will from a distance. As a move action you can propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction though the spell ends if the distance between you and the object ever excedes the spell's range. Most doors (particularly dungeon doors) weigh more than 5 #. Lot of campaigns it won't open unlocked doors.

For first level spells I like:

Color Spray but the Cone 15' range will affect your positioning in the group as you will normally not want to take out your team mates.

Sleep still viable at that level dropping 4 HD but really waning in usefulness despite range 100' + 10' level.

Possibly True Strike for that +20 if you are into combat.

Charm Person, Disguise Self and Mount can be nice for a travelling con man and settng up others to take the fall (maybe not for a low charisma dwarf).

Silent Image can be useful depending on the campaign but so can a few scrolls.

I like Grease but the level 1 Grease gets abused a lot IMO as a first level spell being limited to one object or a 10 foot square. It becomes really useful when it is sculpted and can cover more area.

Chameleon gets you that +10 to Hide for sneaky type campaigns if elven cloaks are not available for purchase.

One of the Orbs will let you do 2D8 at spellcaster level 3 (Generally it is best to switch energy types (Don't take Acid if you took Acid Splash...))

Magic Missile 2D4 + 2 as a level 3 spell caster (force damage that doesn't miss averaging 7 hit points per spell each round it depends on your campaign)

Mage Hand Greater medium range and up to 40# is generally the better choice than the cantrip.

Persistent Blade Force Blade automatically flanks opponents.

Ray of Enfeeblement can be good for dropping opponents.

Scatter Spray can be useful but doesn't ramp up and is limited to 1D8 in a 10' Radius.

Shield is generally useful.

Unseen Force can be quite useful depending on the campaign.

Hope that helped.

Variable Arcana
2007-03-17, 11:32 PM
Why sorcerer instead of wizard??

Aside from the second-level spell you'd get as a wizard, it seems like the big tradeoff is a high intelligence (--> skill points!) versus high charisma (--> bluff/diplomacy). I'd go wizard, especially with a dwarf (charisma penalty!) -- and then specialize -- probably in illusion or enchantment, depending on which way you want to go with the character. Let the party's bard do the charisma checks.

As a rogue 1/illusionist 3 you could take, as a typical day's spells (5/4/3 w/ 16 int):
- Invisibility
- Minor Image
- Detect thoughts
(All of these will be inordinately useful in an intrigue campaign... might swap in Spider Climb...)
- Grease
- Ventriloquism
- Color Spray
- Disguise Self

- Prestidigitation
- Mage Hand
- Message
- Detect Magic
- Ghost Sound

Edit: I'd say skip the sneak-attack cantrips... buy yourself a hand-crossbow instead. It never runs out of ammo -- save the spell slots for things the fourth level ranger and fourth level rogue can't do ten times better than you can.

2007-03-17, 11:52 PM
You're gestalting, right? I have to agree with Variable Arcana, the synergy of a wizard's high Int and a rogue's high skill points would be very handy for your character. It would also let you tailor your spell selection to the task at hand, making your character extremely skillful and adaptable.

Otherwise, more information would be helpful; who else is in the party, what role do you want to fill, etc. Especially if you do want to stick with sorceror, spell selection hinges on your having a good idea of what your character will be getting up to.