Is fire the best damage for sorcerers?

[Kirion]

I'm thinking about which Draconic Heritage to pick for a sorcerer. Fire seems obvious because of Scorching Ray being awesome with it. Is there any other element that can compete?

[Kyutaru]

Among the dragon types, acid is actually the best one. This is purely because Fire is the most resisted element in the game alongside Poison. Lightning and Cold are fairly resisted but Acid is rarely so.

[TheOOB]

Among the dragon types, acid is actually the best one. This is purely because Fire is the most resisted element in the game alongside Poison. Lightning and Cold are fairly resisted but Acid is rarely so.

But how many good acid damage spells are there?

[Kyutaru]

But how many good acid damage spells are there?

Unless you consider cantrips to be good, zero. But that's easily remedied by a DM... I mean why even have Acid and Poison choices if they're just traps for dumb players? Fire is the only viable choice with the existing spell list so you need to expand the spell list.

[Gnomes2169]

Lightning is a decent choice as far as damage spells+Damage resistance go. Fire tends to have a LOT of creatures that resist it, while most creatures that deal it can also deal a different energy type (typically lightning or necrotic), while most creatures that deal lightning are either doing lightning+thunder solely, or it's augmenting their (slightly lowered) physical attacks.

Plus, when isn't the idea of chucking lightning bolts not awesome? I mean come on now...

[Scirocco]

Don't forget get the Tempest domain synergy.

[Gnomes2169]

Don't forget get the Tempest domain synergy.

This too. Though Light synergizes with fire as well...

[Cambrian]

With the Elemental Adept feat, assuming your DM allows it, will make it so only immune creatures (40 in the MM) are an issue. Fire is often resisted, but also the most likely to be vulnerable to (9 creatures in the MM).

With so many different fire spells and access to that feat it should be very effective. Just get some non-fire spells too-- preferably some that deal less resisted damage types. See Yorrin's breakdown of MM resistances (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?379165-MM-Resistances-Immunities-Vulnerabilities-and-Damage).

If your DM will allow you to change the damage types (acid, cold, fire, and lightning are more or less interchangeable) on spells you can go with whatever theme you want and get feat if you find it becomes relevant.

[TheOOB]

Unless you consider cantrips to be good, zero. But that's easily remedied by a DM... I mean why even have Acid and Poison choices if they're just traps for dumb players? Fire is the only viable choice with the existing spell list so you need to expand the spell list.

That's not a useful argument for balance here on the boards. RAW is the only common element among all the players and DM's here, so saying something is good only when it's houseruled means it's not good.

[Kyutaru]

That's not a useful argument for balance here on the boards. RAW is the only common element among all the players and DM's here, so saying something is good only when it's houseruled means it's not good.

It also means that there are literally options in the RAW that offer NO BENEFIT without such houserules.

[Easy_Lee]

The current spell list yields fire as the only real option. The other elements don't have enough spells. If you want more attack spells of a different element, talk to your DM.

[Ralanr]

What about cold? I don't see that thrown around often.

[Gnomes2169]

What about cold? I don't see that thrown around often.

It's the most resisted element, almost tied for most immunities, and has the fewest low-level spells... It's not the best choice.

[silveralen]

What about cold? I don't see that thrown around often.

About as many enemies resist and are immune to it as fire, slightly fewer enemies are vulnerable to it, and the spell list isn't as good. It's not a bad or trap choice, but it is just a tad worse.

Really it's just hard to compete with fireball+scorching ray. Those beat almost any of the other spells up to 6th lvl, and after that you have incendiary cloud, fire storm, and meteor swarm. For raw damage fire tends to win, though the lightning spells are pretty good and have the advantage (or disadvantage) of less collateral damage.

It honestly looks like they forgot to include an expanded spell list of "always known" spells like some other class features have. Things like acid arrow, call lightning, hunger of hadar, freezing sphere, wall of ice, and storm of vengeance could have helped make the other choices better (though even then acid and poison are pretty bad choices, with lightning and cold becoming meh).

[Kyutaru]

There's way more spells than that they could have included. Acid Storm, Ball Lightning, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Scintillating Sphere, Vitriolic Sphere, Lightning Ring, Icelance, Inferno, Firebrand, and the funny thing is that most spells they left out are just alternate versions of existing ones of the same level... hence easily house ruled into existence.

[Kirion]

Looking at the spell list yeah, I don't see anything coming close to fire. That's a shame. I would've preferred Lightning aesthetically if they had enough support but Shocking Grasp / Chromatic Orb / Witch Bolt / Lightning Bolt looks like a significant step down from Fire Bolt / Burning Hands / Scorching Ray / Fireball. You add your CHA to all 3 rays with Scorching Ray when you pick fire right? If so, that's nuts.

I eagerly await a spell compendium, or at least that feat from 3.5 that lets you change any spell damage into an element of your choice.

The one downside is the resistance / immunities but at level 8 I'll pick up that elemental adept feat (I didn't roll well so I'm going for the stat boost at 4). Hopefully it won't be too big of an issue until then.


There's way more spells than that they could have included. Acid Storm, Ball Lightning, Snowball Swarm, Electric Loop, Scintillating Sphere, Vitriolic Sphere, Lightning Ring, Icelance, Inferno, Firebrand, and the funny thing is that most spells they left out are just alternate versions of existing ones of the same level... hence easily house ruled into existence.

There was one spell, I forgot from what splatbook, it was essentially Lightning Bolt that teleported you to the end of the bolt's range. I thought that was super cool.

[GWJ_DanyBoy]

From the other thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?375024-Best-damage-type-for-a-dragon-path-sorcerer):

Here's a list of the Sorc's spells which deal an appropriate damage.


Fire
Fire Bolt
Chromatic Orb
Burning Hands
Scorching Ray
Fireball
Wall Of Fire
Delayed Blast Fireball
Fire Storm
Prismatic Spray
Incendiary Cloud
Meteor Swarm

Lightning
Shocking Grasp
Chromatic Orb
Witch Bolt
Lightning Bolt
Chain Lightning
Prismatic Spray

Cold
Ray of Frost
Chromatic Orb
Ice Storm
Cone Of Cold
Prismatic Spray

Acid
Acid Splash
Chromatic Orb
Prismatic Spray

Poison
Poison Spray
Chromatic Orb
Ray Of Sickness
Cloudkill
Prismatic Spray

As you can see, Fire gets the most spells, and all of the high level spells (Above 6) are Fire, making it a great choice, especially when combined with the Elemental feat. Acid is notably bad, as it only gets Acid Splash, a minor cantrip.