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Melcar
2014-11-12, 02:42 PM
So, Im trying to come up with way in which to create a spell that can be use in a laboratory to anylyze spells, in a kind of a way like a magnetic field generator, so to hold spells for analysis. I have come up with the following, but I would love for some feedback here. Any ideas are welcome, as this is very much a work in progress. Tell my what I'm missing and what your think of the idea as a whole.

Thanks


Melcar's Intrinsic Field
Divination
Level: Sor/Wis ?
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: ?
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./ 2 level)
Area: One 30 ft. diameter sphere of magical energy
Duration: ?
Saving Throw: None, harmless
Spell Resistance: No, harmless
When this spell is cast, a 30 ft, diameter, spherical, slightly amethyst, transparent field in high energy magic is created 30 ft. The Field is mobile, and can be moved and turned by the caster at a speed 90 degrees or 5 ft per round. The field acts as a container for other spell effects. Spells cast into the field are suspended in time, in such a way, as to extend effect, so that it can be viewed and studied. The field itself functions as an analytical tool for the studying of spells at a more fundamental level, than what is capable via spells like detect magic or analyze dweomer. This spell gives the caster the capability to study in detail what is actually happening during and after the forming of spells, as the caster now views the Weave in all its glory, using the sphere as the lens through which it is viewed. This gives the follow options:

The caster of the intrinsic field has control of any spell cast into the field and thus gains the ability to pause, slow down, reverse or extend the effect of such spells. The maximum duration can be equal to the duration of the field itself.

The caster can enter the field at his own leisure to cast personal range spell, to have them suspended by the field.

Spells cast into the field which has an area that is greater than the area of the field, ends its effect at the boundary of the field.

Even spells cast by other, than the caster of the field, falls under control of the caster of the field.

A fireball cast into the field would be suspended just at the point of forming so that the caster could study how the weave takes form, and what kind of energies are used to create magical fire out of nothing. This spell could potentially be used in combat, but the gathering of more than one spell in the field could lead to unknown effects, and could therefore be dangerous.
Material Component: A water opal
Focus: A masterwork magnifying glass

Demidos
2014-11-12, 05:00 PM
I'd suggest a long cast time (an hour?) to avoid its use in combat (So the caster isnt throwing around the ability to add free metamagic or block the spells of other casters willy nilly) and a long duration (days/level?) so that the caster can take the full amount of time needed to document such effects.
An interesting alternate use would be a feat that gave access to such a "spell", which would then allow the caster to either cast the spell better (increased caster level) for a short duration (takes 30 min to prep, +2 CL for a day, perhaps), or allows the caster to cast a certain number of spells better (say equal to his int modifier. +2 CL for 5-8 is not bad in the scope of the non-optimization level you seem to be aiming for.

AuraTwilight
2014-11-12, 05:08 PM
This feels like it'd be a 9th level spell, because the ability to control all spells in the area is INCREDIBLY powerful.

Kornaki
2014-11-12, 05:32 PM
It doesn't have any mechanical benefit for studying spells though. OK, I've suspended a spell, now what? All I can do is fire it off at some later point. The ability to move it around makes it just feel like a combat buff as well. If it took a while to cast and was purely stationary, it would have more of a laboratory buff feel.

Melcar
2014-11-12, 05:48 PM
I'd suggest a long cast time (an hour?) to avoid its use in combat (So the caster isnt throwing around the ability to add free metamagic or block the spells of other casters willy nilly) and a long duration (days/level?) so that the caster can take the full amount of time needed to document such effects.
An interesting alternate use would be a feat that gave access to such a "spell", which would then allow the caster to either cast the spell better (increased caster level) for a short duration (takes 30 min to prep, +2 CL for a day, perhaps), or allows the caster to cast a certain number of spells better (say equal to his int modifier. +2 CL for 5-8 is not bad in the scope of the non-optimization level you seem to be aiming for.

Indeed, this was not meant for high optimization. It was more to somehow gain a bonus when creating spells or somehow give a boost to your casters understanding.



It doesn't have any mechanical benefit for studying spells though. OK, I've suspended a spell, now what? All I can do is fire it off at some later point. The ability to move it around makes it just feel like a combat buff as well. If it took a while to cast and was purely stationary, it would have more of a laboratory buff feel.

I see your point. The moving part was for the possibility to move around the lab, but I see your point. In terms of machanical benefits what would you suggest? I have a hard time imagining what could be done with it. Its not sopposed to be a combat spell at all, but I seem to be lacking any interesting benefits this could give.

Any suggestions would be perfect.

I was thinking about placing a time of study, per spell level, thus meaning a level 3 would take 3 hours or 3 days to fully understand. This understanding needs to do some mechanical thing for sure, but this I dont have a good idea for.

EDIT: I was also thinking about gaining the ability to perhaps ad meta-magic effects for free to the spell studied for the next day or perhaps it could be used to fuse spells or even apply unique effects. And perhaps a bonus to knowledge and spellcraft for a time equal the the spell studied? What do you guys think about that?

brian 333
2014-11-14, 08:18 AM
Caster level must be awesome for that spell. But I can think of several ways to go about it:

Lesser Intrinsic Field
As Level 3 spell: can contain any level 1 or lower spell. Adds caster level to spellcraft checks for determining properties of spells within the sphere.

When studied at a higher level, (use a higher level spell slot,) it can contain any spell two spell levels lower.

Intrinsic Field
As level 6 spell: can contain any level 6 or lower spell. Adds caster level x2 to spellcraft checks for determining properties of spells within the sphere. Grants the ability to scribe the contained spell into spellbook if the spell is castable by a wizard. This version also functions to analyze magic items, but not artifacts or relics.

When studied at a higher level, (use a higher spell slot,) it can contain any spell of its level.

Greater Intrinsic Field
Level 9 spell: can contain any spell of any level, (even epic.) Adds caster level x4 to spellcraft checks for determining properties of spells within the sphere. This version also functions to analyze magic items, artifacts, and relics. Grants the ability to scribe the spell contained within the spheree into spellbook if the spell is castable by a wizard, or to create a recipe for the production of a magic item similar to the one within the sphere.

Notes:
A difficult task which can be performed within any of these sphere is the removal of curses without otherwise damaging an item. The equivalent spell level of the curse involved determines how powerful a sphere is required, and the cost to remove it is the same as for the creation of the curse itself. Failure results in the curse being attached to the caster of the sphere.

Objects or effects within the sphere may be shrunk or enlarged at will so that the caster may more narrowly focus upon the aspect he desires to examine. This effect ends with the sphere's duration.

Sorcerers can learn spells through use of this spell if they have a slot available. Otherwise, they simply learn how it could be done on a theoretical level.

This spell cannot be used to craft items or scrolls, or to store spells within an existing item. It can be used to discover command words of items.

A living being within this sphere can be examined as an object. All attempts to learn anything about it must overcome its innate spell resistance, (if any,) and if the subject is unwilling it is allowed a save. (If no other save is appropriate, use Will vs. Will save.) A living being can have curses, geases, or any detrimental spell effect removed, but no spells may be placed on him while in the sphere which do not expire at the end of the duration of the sphere. An unrestrained living creature of any kind is able to leave the sphere at will.

Extra Anchovies
2014-11-14, 08:43 AM
I don't have much to contribute that hasn't already been said here, but I like this project. Magic lab = one step closer to Unseen University = so very much a good thing.

Hollowpoint
2014-11-14, 11:57 AM
Perhaps make it out like an extra dimensional space, except it only supports the existence of magical energy (ie: spells.)
You could have the same, or most of the control you described, but without the obvious brokenness.

Melcar
2014-11-14, 12:42 PM
I have made some changes, before the last suggestions though.


Melcar's Intrinsic Field
Divination
Level: Sor/Wis 9
Components: V, S, M, F
Casting Time: 1 day
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./ 2 level)
Area: One immobile 30 ft. diameter sphere of magical energy
Duration: 1/ day per level
Saving Throw: None, harmless
Spell Resistance: No, harmless
When this spell is cast, a 30 ft. diameter, spherical, slightly amethyst, transparent field of high energy magic is created. The field can be turned telepathically by the caster at a rate of 90 degrees per round. The field acts as a repository for other spell. Spells cast into the field are suspended in time, in such a way, as to prolong their effects, so that they may be viewed and studied. The field itself functions as an analytical tool for the studying of spells, at a more fundamental level, than what is capable via spells like detect magic or analyze dweomer, and thus gives the opportunity of viewing magic on a particle level. Using the sphere as the lens through which the weave is viewed on a microscopic level gives the caster the ability to observe the building blocks of magic itself, thus the field can be said to operate as spectrometer and a particle detector. This field gives the following options:

The caster of the intrinsic field has control of any spell cast into the field and gains the ability to pause, slow down, reverse or extend, pull apart or crush the effect of such spells. The maximum duration can be equal to the duration of the field itself.

The caster can enter the field to, to have personal range spells suspended by the field.

Spells cast into the field can be viewed as either particles or radiation, allowing for different analyses or it can be viewed without these filters, to allow for a more general examination.

Spells cast into the field which has an area that is greater than the area of the field, are blocked at the boundary of the field.

Even spells cast by other spellcasters, than the caster of the field, fall under control of the caster of the field.

The complete understanding of a spell, at its most primordial level, entails the caster with a great knowledge of magic itself. The possibilities of such knowledge are endless, and might include the ability to apply metamagic effects for free or alter the composition of spell in their entirety. The gathering of more than one spell in the field could lead to unknown effects, and could therefore be dangerous.


Material Component: A water opal wrapped in gold leaf.
Focus: A masterwork magnifying glass





Caster level must be awesome for that spell. But I can think of several ways to go about it:

Lesser Intrinsic Field
As Level 3 spell: can contain any level 1 or lower spell. Adds caster level to spellcraft checks for determining properties of spells within the sphere.

When studied at a higher level, (use a higher level spell slot,) it can contain any spell two spell levels lower.

Intrinsic Field
As level 6 spell: can contain any level 6 or lower spell. Adds caster level x2 to spellcraft checks for determining properties of spells within the sphere. Grants the ability to scribe the contained spell into spellbook if the spell is castable by a wizard. This version also functions to analyze magic items, but not artifacts or relics.

When studied at a higher level, (use a higher spell slot,) it can contain any spell of its level.

Greater Intrinsic Field
Level 9 spell: can contain any spell of any level, (even epic.) Adds caster level x4 to spellcraft checks for determining properties of spells within the sphere. This version also functions to analyze magic items, artifacts, and relics. Grants the ability to scribe the spell contained within the spheree into spellbook if the spell is castable by a wizard, or to create a recipe for the production of a magic item similar to the one within the sphere.

Notes:
A difficult task which can be performed within any of these sphere is the removal of curses without otherwise damaging an item. The equivalent spell level of the curse involved determines how powerful a sphere is required, and the cost to remove it is the same as for the creation of the curse itself. Failure results in the curse being attached to the caster of the sphere.

Objects or effects within the sphere may be shrunk or enlarged at will so that the caster may more narrowly focus upon the aspect he desires to examine. This effect ends with the sphere's duration.

Sorcerers can learn spells through use of this spell if they have a slot available. Otherwise, they simply learn how it could be done on a theoretical level.

This spell cannot be used to craft items or scrolls, or to store spells within an existing item. It can be used to discover command words of items.

A living being within this sphere can be examined as an object. All attempts to learn anything about it must overcome its innate spell resistance, (if any,) and if the subject is unwilling it is allowed a save. (If no other save is appropriate, use Will vs. Will save.) A living being can have curses, geases, or any detrimental spell effect removed, but no spells may be placed on him while in the sphere which do not expire at the end of the duration of the sphere. An unrestrained living creature of any kind is able to leave the sphere at will.

I really like this, but I would like to have you explain the "add caster level to spellcraft check" part. Im unsure of what check or DC your are reffering to.


Perhaps make it out like an extra dimensional space, except it only supports the existence of magical energy (ie: spells.)
You could have the same, or most of the control you described, but without the obvious brokenness.

Could you elaborate on how this could be abused in your eyes?

Hollowpoint
2014-11-14, 12:53 PM
Even if the casting time is a few hours, having a spell last for much longer could prove very, very powerful.

Off the top of my head you could all sorts buffs that should only last a few minutes last hours.

Melcar
2014-11-14, 02:06 PM
Even if the casting time is a few hours, having a spell last for much longer could prove very, very powerful.

Off the top of my head you could all sorts buffs that should only last a few minutes last hours.

But the spell effect cant leave the field. I might have forgotten to write that. Again thats why I post it here! :smallredface:

Hollowpoint
2014-11-14, 03:38 PM
The caster of the intrinsic field has control of any spell cast into the field and gains the ability to pause, slow down, reverse or extend, pull apart or crush the effect of such spells. The maximum duration can be equal to the duration of the field itself.

Basically any thing you'd like to have around all day, like cloudkill or gate or some divination or other.
An extremely liberal ruling could have you creating spawn points for the other party members, cause you'd never really be finishing that true resurrection, just rewinding it once they leave the field.

Melcar
2014-11-14, 04:30 PM
Basically any thing you'd like to have around all day, like cloudkill or gate or some divination or other.
An extremely liberal ruling could have you creating spawn points for the other party members, cause you'd never really be finishing that true resurrection, just rewinding it once they leave the field.

INdeed.... that both why a love at hate RAW. I have not added, what I the designer thought to be obvious, that the effect of the spell is suspended aswell, meaning that you cant walk in, cast timestop and be timestopped all day, that was not the idea ad least. As the field keeps the contained spells stable and essentially without a duration, I didnt think that they could affect anything...

jedipotter
2014-11-17, 03:04 AM
Melcar's Intrinsic Field

This is so not a divination spell. How do you see a spell that freezes or reverses spells as divination? Sure you tack on some ''understanding'' at the end of the spell, but that is like saying Meteor Swarm can be a divination as after it does the tons of fire damage you can figure out what targets had the most hit points.

This spell should be an evocation.

The idea that a caster could cast this spell and then for something like 20 days be immune to any spell cast on them is a bit crazy. Sure they need to stay in the bubble, but still. The fact that all spells are automatically effected is way too powerful. There should be a mechanic here, like a caster level check.

And the spell needs a limit. As written an infinite number of spells can be kept in the field. That is a lot of spells. A cap of like the casters level is needed. .

It has way too much abuse possible. A caster can use this spell to get the effects of any spell for 20 days or more. That is way too powerful.

And when you finally get to the end, with the whole ''the caster might learn things and stuff''...well that is kinda vague.


When you compare the spell to the other high level divination spells like Greater Arcane Sight and Analyze Denwomer, exactly what ''more'' are you looking to learn about a spell?

Hamste
2014-11-17, 09:16 AM
Hmm, what happens if I cast this spell into another one of these spells?

Melcar
2014-11-17, 11:26 AM
Melcar's Intrinsic Field

This is so not a divination spell. How do you see a spell that freezes or reverses spells as divination? Sure you tack on some ''understanding'' at the end of the spell, but that is like saying Meteor Swarm can be a divination as after it does the tons of fire damage you can figure out what targets had the most hit points.

This spell should be an evocation.

The idea that a caster could cast this spell and then for something like 20 days be immune to any spell cast on them is a bit crazy. Sure they need to stay in the bubble, but still. The fact that all spells are automatically effected is way too powerful. There should be a mechanic here, like a caster level check.

And the spell needs a limit. As written an infinite number of spells can be kept in the field. That is a lot of spells. A cap of like the casters level is needed. .

It has way too much abuse possible. A caster can use this spell to get the effects of any spell for 20 days or more. That is way too powerful.

And when you finally get to the end, with the whole ''the caster might learn things and stuff''...well that is kinda vague.


When you compare the spell to the other high level divination spells like Greater Arcane Sight and Analyze Denwomer, exactly what ''more'' are you looking to learn about a spell?

Ok... I will add some limits.

The spell effect cant affect anyone, its absorbed/contained by the field. I will put that in explicitly.

The spell is meant as a analytical tool, a role-playing idea that would allow and somehow help to sell the idea of a laboratory /particle accelerator kind of contraption that if successful would mean that any new spells invented, could be seriously powerful. The reason for not stating what happens after a concluded study is because that could vary, and it allows for the DM to be creative. Either I would have to list all possibilities in the hundreds or list a few, thus limiting this spell seriously. Also I was thinking that a spells could be combined. Imagine the number you could get from combining 3000 different wizard spells in different combinations. I would not have enough space in my hard disk to write that number of combinations possible. If I'm correct 3000^3000. So that's why I am so vague. I could try to narrow some general effects though.

I want a spell, that could sustain another spell so it could be viewed or kept like protons could be held by magnetism. Analyse Dweomer does not change that an instantaneous spell still goes buff and is gone. With this spell it would be still in explosion so that than effect could be viewed and studied.


Hmm, what happens if I cast this spell into another one of these spells?

See that is a good question. Reality as we know it would unravel! :smallwink:

jedipotter
2014-11-17, 06:23 PM
The spell is meant as a analytical tool, a role-playing idea

Well, if the spell is really not meant to ''do'' anything, then why does it ''do'' so much? If you get rid of the supreme power to control magic in the area, this spell could be:

This spell creates a snapshot of any single spell cast in the area. The snapshot is an exact duplicate of the cast spell, but has none of the effects of the spell. The caster and others can study the spell snapshot and learn lots of Things and Stuff about the spell (DM's are encouraged to add anything they wish to what can be discovered about the spell).

Melcar
2014-11-18, 12:04 PM
Well, if the spell is really not meant to ''do'' anything, then why does it ''do'' so much? If you get rid of the supreme power to control magic in the area, this spell could be:

This spell creates a snapshot of any single spell cast in the area. The snapshot is an exact duplicate of the cast spell, but has none of the effects of the spell. The caster and others can study the spell snapshot and learn lots of Things and Stuff about the spell (DM's are encouraged to add anything they wish to what can be discovered about the spell).

Well that why te spell is level 9. Its supposed to do a lot, but since the spell which have been cast into the field cant exit the area I dont see the problem with this supreme power as you say. The sphere is immobile, takes 1 day to cast, spells cant exit once inside, and neither can spell affect any target while inside the sphere. Which means that a timestop coudl be cast inside the field have its duration extended to 1 day per level, but noone would be affected by this since the spell energies would be caught in the field and suspended there for viewend and study.

As I have said, It might not be explicitly stated enough, and I would add that, but I'm in the middle of my some exams, so that will be added as soon as I have time... possibly tomorrow.

I totally get what you are saying and I understand that its anoying (for me too) that there are no set values or stats for this spell, which can be agued in terms of RAW. Im thinking of possibly stating the values as wish, which has some "safe" abilities and then some usafe aswell. This might be the best possible was of doing it.

Your idea with a snapshot does get the essential ability, but a snapshot would seem to 2D. Thats why Im was suggesting a continues extention of the effect of the spell, so it was "running" or turned on the whole time. And the one could zoom in or out and stuff....

Lastly I would just like to say that I wholly enjoy all of your comments. Thank you.