Thoughtbot360
2007-03-23, 04:32 AM
I hope I'm coherent, its really late at night...
I've been thinking: why not simply sell skill ranks for gold pieces? I mean, every 1st-level character in the world starts with 4x their normal skill ranks and a feat (and humans have even more, of course). Where they born with these talents? I think not! Is it not reasonalbe to infer that characters in the D&D world have to suffer through education in their childhood like people in the real world do? That, for instance, a master blacksmith (5th level expert with 8 ranks in craft: weaponmaking and skill focus: weaponmaking) could actually be teaching his blacksmithing apprentice how to have reach his level of mastery (as opposed to just using him for the +2 circumstance bonus? You know, cause supossedly thats what "appretice" is.)
And speaking of that apprentice, most people don't know "when they level up" and casaully leveling up faceless NPCs has a lot of problems anyway, due to their increase in battle prowess (the weakest adept who knows "raise dead" can probably kick the PC barbarian's ass, if early enough in the game). Therefore the "they learn when they level up" argument fails. Its kind of useful to get some free skill ranks when you level up, just because some people simply improve over time, and pick up new interests and get better as a matter of course, but its useful for them to have other ways to acquire skills during thier downtime. He's my list:
Spending a teaching cycle with a master: You spend a certain amount of your downtime (DM's discression) with a teacher, and make an 1d20 + 1/2 skill ranks check + 2 if you're human (DC= your current skill rank x the sophistication level of the skill - the collective intelligence modifier of the student and the teacher. The DC is reduced by 25% for class skills). Every time you retry you pay the tuition fee again, but you gain a +2 bonus each time. Learning the first rank of a new skill is DC 10 for a trained skill and DC 1 (!) for an untrained skill. You need to pay the tuition costs and go through a teaching cycle again for every rank you acquire, but you are not limited by your level, so you can technically buy ranks over your level limit. However, you have to find a teacher that has that many ranks of the skill in question before you can collect. And the DCs of those Gather information checks needed to find ever more talented masters of the skill you're over-specializing in are just going to get harder and harder and lead to a lot of dead ends and hoaxes. This is a tool for diverisifing skills, not mastering Move silently at 1st level. Learning feats simply has counts as learning the first rank of a new trained skill (DC 10) humans do not get a +2 bonus on this check, but fighters and wizards do (and only if the feat is a fighter feat or wizard feat respectively). Fighter feats (even if the character isn't a fighter) should be have relatively short teaching cycles (as per real world combat training) while metamagic and the like should be relatively long (as per typical fantasy world presupposition that magic is somewhat complicated.)
Tuition costs
For commonly used/boring skills (Sophistication level 1):
2 gp x current rank (for the first rank, pay 15 sp) per teaching cycle.
For mercantile/wilderness/adventuring skills (Sophisitcation level 2):
10 gp x current rank (for first rank, pay 5 gp) per teaching cycle
For scholarly pursuits and exact sciences (Sophistication level 3)
50 gp x current rank (for first rank, pay 15 gp)
For feats (Sophistication level 4)
500 gp x (5 + 1 per prerequiste feat + 1 per prerequisite base attack bonus + 1 per prerequisite caster level). Prerequisite class or character levels are not factored in. Weapon proficencies cost 1/100th as much. (come on, a fighter starts at level 1 having proficency in 55 weapons!) Training for Exotic weapons cost 1/10th as much.
Sophistication level of skills:
1: Climb, Handle Animal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Proffession, Search, Spot, Use Rope
2: Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather information, Heal, Move Silently, Open Lock, Ride, Sense Motive, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Survival, Swim, Tumble
3: Concentration, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Dispel Magic *, Divination*, Forgery, Knowledge, Perform, Scry*, Speak Language, Spellcraft**, Class-exclusive skills (namely Use Magic Device, but Animal Empathy used to be one..:smallfrown: )
4: Feats
*-this is an Elements of Magic (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699) skill, although scry used to be in 3.0....
**-Yeah, spellcraft is used to emulate Identify spells the like in EOM
Self-teaching: Bonus skill points in-between level ups!
I reccomend (perhaps as a new twist on the idea of "roleplaying experience", because XP is just too dangerous a gift.) that the DM hands out 1/4 of a skill point at the end of a session. Humans get thirds instead of fourths (its like their only selling point after 1st level! Seriously, why not polymorph yourself into a Drow or something? *rolls eyes*) The player records some where on his character sheet how much of a skill point he has and he resets that value every time he gains a skill point. He then buys his new skill rank immediately. This isn't limited by his character level, and all skills (except class-exclusive ones) count as "class skills" as far as these bonus ranks are concerned.
Feats addemum
Now you might be scratching your head when you notice feats are in that list. I humbly submit that feats simply won't break your game. Also there are some feats out there that are more nice than they are helpful (Rapid reload, TWF, and Improved unarmed strike come to mind) and people don't get them because "it'd be a waste." A waste of the time getting to the level that gave them the feat! (it took them 3 freaking levels to get here! :smallmad:) You might freak out at the prospect of a fighter gaining 40 greater weapon specializations with his weapon of choice, but I'd like to point out that he has to find another fighter with all those greater weapon specializations first. And if we assume, like the alexandrian does, that 5th level counts as the sort of guy who comes around "once in a generation" (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) then your fighter will be hard pressed to find another 12 level fighter who has one greater weapon specialization (and remember, he will also have to have more and more greater weapon specializations ALL IN THE SAME WEAPON, to teach the PC fighter.)
For those who didn't click the link, here is the important part of the article:
So what have we learned so far? Almost everyone you have ever met is a 1st level character. The few exceptional people you’ve met are probably 2nd or 3rd level – they’re canny and experienced and can accomplish things that others find difficult or impossible.
If you know someone who’s 4th level, then you’re privileged to know one of the most talented people around: They’re a professional sports player. Or a brain surgeon. Or a rocket scientist.
If you know someone who’s 5th level, then you have the honor of knowing someone that will probably be written about in history books. Walter Payton. Michael Jordan. Albert Einstein. Isaac Newton. Miyamoto Musashi. William Shakespeare.
So when your D&D character hits 6th level, it means they’re literally superhuman: They are capable of achieving things that no human being has ever been capable of achieving. They have transcended the mortal plane and become a mythic hero.
Even though feats are a fighter's selling points, fighters end up relying more on magic weapons created by an NPC wizard (who stupidly throws away his xp making an item that raises a nonmagical stranger's survivability in a hostile, supernatural, high-level world when he could be hoarding the xp for himself, improving his usefulness for the occasion he might have to go on such an adventure).
One major thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of people are level 1, and therefore have 1-2 feats. But supposedly, those feats are varied. And if the Aragorns and Luke Skywalkers of the world are level 5 (as this guy (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) says) and level 6 and over are super human freaks. Then if people CANNOT teach each other feats, they are stuck with a maximum of 6 feats (if they are human fighters.) and the only people who have whirlwind attack are those who choose to postpone getting their 3rd level feat and get both spring attack AND whirlwind attack at fourth level (both have a prerequisite of +4 BAB) and such people will NEVER get weapon specialization :smallfrown: (unless they become heroes themselves.) Its not a really bad lose as NPCs tend to lead boring lives and like that just fine, but it just seems...a little static for my taste.
So I implore you, DMs of the world, to use these rules and put skills and feats ON SALE! After all, is it really so bad if one guy has weapon specialization in more than one weapon, including unarmed?
Your fighter might even dare to invest in a cross-class skill, Complete with a Skill focus feat for that skill. :smallbiggrin:
I've been thinking: why not simply sell skill ranks for gold pieces? I mean, every 1st-level character in the world starts with 4x their normal skill ranks and a feat (and humans have even more, of course). Where they born with these talents? I think not! Is it not reasonalbe to infer that characters in the D&D world have to suffer through education in their childhood like people in the real world do? That, for instance, a master blacksmith (5th level expert with 8 ranks in craft: weaponmaking and skill focus: weaponmaking) could actually be teaching his blacksmithing apprentice how to have reach his level of mastery (as opposed to just using him for the +2 circumstance bonus? You know, cause supossedly thats what "appretice" is.)
And speaking of that apprentice, most people don't know "when they level up" and casaully leveling up faceless NPCs has a lot of problems anyway, due to their increase in battle prowess (the weakest adept who knows "raise dead" can probably kick the PC barbarian's ass, if early enough in the game). Therefore the "they learn when they level up" argument fails. Its kind of useful to get some free skill ranks when you level up, just because some people simply improve over time, and pick up new interests and get better as a matter of course, but its useful for them to have other ways to acquire skills during thier downtime. He's my list:
Spending a teaching cycle with a master: You spend a certain amount of your downtime (DM's discression) with a teacher, and make an 1d20 + 1/2 skill ranks check + 2 if you're human (DC= your current skill rank x the sophistication level of the skill - the collective intelligence modifier of the student and the teacher. The DC is reduced by 25% for class skills). Every time you retry you pay the tuition fee again, but you gain a +2 bonus each time. Learning the first rank of a new skill is DC 10 for a trained skill and DC 1 (!) for an untrained skill. You need to pay the tuition costs and go through a teaching cycle again for every rank you acquire, but you are not limited by your level, so you can technically buy ranks over your level limit. However, you have to find a teacher that has that many ranks of the skill in question before you can collect. And the DCs of those Gather information checks needed to find ever more talented masters of the skill you're over-specializing in are just going to get harder and harder and lead to a lot of dead ends and hoaxes. This is a tool for diverisifing skills, not mastering Move silently at 1st level. Learning feats simply has counts as learning the first rank of a new trained skill (DC 10) humans do not get a +2 bonus on this check, but fighters and wizards do (and only if the feat is a fighter feat or wizard feat respectively). Fighter feats (even if the character isn't a fighter) should be have relatively short teaching cycles (as per real world combat training) while metamagic and the like should be relatively long (as per typical fantasy world presupposition that magic is somewhat complicated.)
Tuition costs
For commonly used/boring skills (Sophistication level 1):
2 gp x current rank (for the first rank, pay 15 sp) per teaching cycle.
For mercantile/wilderness/adventuring skills (Sophisitcation level 2):
10 gp x current rank (for first rank, pay 5 gp) per teaching cycle
For scholarly pursuits and exact sciences (Sophistication level 3)
50 gp x current rank (for first rank, pay 15 gp)
For feats (Sophistication level 4)
500 gp x (5 + 1 per prerequiste feat + 1 per prerequisite base attack bonus + 1 per prerequisite caster level). Prerequisite class or character levels are not factored in. Weapon proficencies cost 1/100th as much. (come on, a fighter starts at level 1 having proficency in 55 weapons!) Training for Exotic weapons cost 1/10th as much.
Sophistication level of skills:
1: Climb, Handle Animal, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Proffession, Search, Spot, Use Rope
2: Appraise, Balance, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather information, Heal, Move Silently, Open Lock, Ride, Sense Motive, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Survival, Swim, Tumble
3: Concentration, Decipher Script, Disable Device, Dispel Magic *, Divination*, Forgery, Knowledge, Perform, Scry*, Speak Language, Spellcraft**, Class-exclusive skills (namely Use Magic Device, but Animal Empathy used to be one..:smallfrown: )
4: Feats
*-this is an Elements of Magic (http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=2699) skill, although scry used to be in 3.0....
**-Yeah, spellcraft is used to emulate Identify spells the like in EOM
Self-teaching: Bonus skill points in-between level ups!
I reccomend (perhaps as a new twist on the idea of "roleplaying experience", because XP is just too dangerous a gift.) that the DM hands out 1/4 of a skill point at the end of a session. Humans get thirds instead of fourths (its like their only selling point after 1st level! Seriously, why not polymorph yourself into a Drow or something? *rolls eyes*) The player records some where on his character sheet how much of a skill point he has and he resets that value every time he gains a skill point. He then buys his new skill rank immediately. This isn't limited by his character level, and all skills (except class-exclusive ones) count as "class skills" as far as these bonus ranks are concerned.
Feats addemum
Now you might be scratching your head when you notice feats are in that list. I humbly submit that feats simply won't break your game. Also there are some feats out there that are more nice than they are helpful (Rapid reload, TWF, and Improved unarmed strike come to mind) and people don't get them because "it'd be a waste." A waste of the time getting to the level that gave them the feat! (it took them 3 freaking levels to get here! :smallmad:) You might freak out at the prospect of a fighter gaining 40 greater weapon specializations with his weapon of choice, but I'd like to point out that he has to find another fighter with all those greater weapon specializations first. And if we assume, like the alexandrian does, that 5th level counts as the sort of guy who comes around "once in a generation" (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) then your fighter will be hard pressed to find another 12 level fighter who has one greater weapon specialization (and remember, he will also have to have more and more greater weapon specializations ALL IN THE SAME WEAPON, to teach the PC fighter.)
For those who didn't click the link, here is the important part of the article:
So what have we learned so far? Almost everyone you have ever met is a 1st level character. The few exceptional people you’ve met are probably 2nd or 3rd level – they’re canny and experienced and can accomplish things that others find difficult or impossible.
If you know someone who’s 4th level, then you’re privileged to know one of the most talented people around: They’re a professional sports player. Or a brain surgeon. Or a rocket scientist.
If you know someone who’s 5th level, then you have the honor of knowing someone that will probably be written about in history books. Walter Payton. Michael Jordan. Albert Einstein. Isaac Newton. Miyamoto Musashi. William Shakespeare.
So when your D&D character hits 6th level, it means they’re literally superhuman: They are capable of achieving things that no human being has ever been capable of achieving. They have transcended the mortal plane and become a mythic hero.
Even though feats are a fighter's selling points, fighters end up relying more on magic weapons created by an NPC wizard (who stupidly throws away his xp making an item that raises a nonmagical stranger's survivability in a hostile, supernatural, high-level world when he could be hoarding the xp for himself, improving his usefulness for the occasion he might have to go on such an adventure).
One major thing to keep in mind is that the vast majority of people are level 1, and therefore have 1-2 feats. But supposedly, those feats are varied. And if the Aragorns and Luke Skywalkers of the world are level 5 (as this guy (http://www.thealexandrian.net/creations/misc/d&d-calibrating.html) says) and level 6 and over are super human freaks. Then if people CANNOT teach each other feats, they are stuck with a maximum of 6 feats (if they are human fighters.) and the only people who have whirlwind attack are those who choose to postpone getting their 3rd level feat and get both spring attack AND whirlwind attack at fourth level (both have a prerequisite of +4 BAB) and such people will NEVER get weapon specialization :smallfrown: (unless they become heroes themselves.) Its not a really bad lose as NPCs tend to lead boring lives and like that just fine, but it just seems...a little static for my taste.
So I implore you, DMs of the world, to use these rules and put skills and feats ON SALE! After all, is it really so bad if one guy has weapon specialization in more than one weapon, including unarmed?
Your fighter might even dare to invest in a cross-class skill, Complete with a Skill focus feat for that skill. :smallbiggrin: