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...Eh?
2007-03-23, 10:17 PM
kk. I'm more or less a slightly experienced nub, so here, I'm going to post attempts at making different characters. Unless noted otherwise, I'll be using the standard for most campaigns I'm in: 76 point buy, 200 starting gold, paying for equipment. Any and all critque will be accepted, but due to the fact that I'm a stubborn ass, it won't always be accept instantly. And now, my first real crack at making a caster, here comes a warmage...

Player: Joe
Name:
Race: Human
Class: Warmage
Level: 1
EXP: 0/1000
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral

Str: 10 (+0)
Dex: 14 (+2)
Con: 10 (+0)
Int: 18 (+4)
Wis: 6 (-3)
Cha: 18 (+4)

HP: 6

AC: 17 (+4 Chain Shirt, +1 Sheild +2 Dex)

Initiative: +2 (+2 Dex)

Saving Throws:

Fort: +0 (+0 Base, +0 Con)
Reflex: +2 (+0 Base, +2 Dex)
Will: +6 (+2 Base, +4 Cha)

Attack bonuses:

Base: +0
Melee: +0
Ranged: +2

Weapon Stats:

Heavy Crossbow, 1d10, 19-20/2, 120 ft., 8 lb., Piercing

Skills:

Concentration (Con) Rank 4, +4 (+0 Con, +4 Rank)
Craft (Int) (weaponsmithing) Rank 4, +8 (+4 Int, +4 Rank)
Craft (Int) (armorsmithing) Rank 4, +8 (+4 Int, +4 Rank)
Intimidate (Cha) Rank 4, +8 (+4 Cha, +4 Rank)
Knowledge (arcana) (Int) Rank 4, +8 (+4 Int, +4 Rank)
Knowledge (history) (Int) Rank 4, +8 (+4 Int, +4 Rank)
Profession (Wis) -3 (-3 Wis)
Spellcraft (Int) Rank 4, +8 (+4 Int, +4 Rank)

Feats:

Point Blank Shot
Force of Personality

Class Features:

Armored Mage (light)
Warmage Edge

Racial features :

Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Human base land speed is 30 feet.
1 extra feat at 1st level.
4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). See the Speak Language skill.
Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.

Equipment:

Heavy Crossbow
Bolts (20)
Chain Shirt
Liht Wooden Sheild
Spell Component Pouch
Rations for 10 days
Backpack

Cash: 0 pp, 31 gp, 0 sp, 0 cp



How does it look?

GunMage
2007-03-23, 10:51 PM
T looks pretty good, but I have a few questions.

1. Are you playing in a 1)kick-in-the-door style game, or 2)a roleplaying centric game. It will matter

If you chose one: Why do you have both a ranged and a melee weapon? Pick one and go with it. As an offensive caster you really don't need a ranged weapon.

If you chose two: your character is somewhate of a loose cannon in a roleplaying situation. That wisdom of 6 shouldn't be very helpful for a character whose alignment pretty much says "It's all about me."

Also, what prestige class are you considering, if any, as you seem to be overextending yourself.

And how do you carry so much stuff without a backpack?

...Eh?
2007-03-23, 10:52 PM
<_< Like I said, nub. I forgot about the backpack. Also, I'm so used to playing frontline fighters and keeping a backup ranged weapon that I forgot that the second I get in melee, I die. And I'm aiming for the Spellwarp Sniper, from the Complete Scoundrel. Look better?

GunMage
2007-03-23, 10:58 PM
Very much so, after the changes. Good luck:smallwink: .

Zincorium
2007-03-23, 10:59 PM
76 point buy? I'm assuming you start at 0 in all stats then. A little odd, but not a big deal. Anyway, on to the critique, as I'm sure I'm being ninja'd as I write this.

Warmage is okay for beginning players. You still need to know the details of your spells, but you don't have to pick them except every once in a while and you get to use whichever ones you like. However...

Warmages have jack all for defensive, buffing, debuffing, and utility spells. Don't worry about what all those terms mean, because they're something you don't have.

You have blasting. And when that runs out you have combat effectiveness just slightly above that of a normal wizard or sorceror, which is to say you should only try it if your character is going to die anyway. But while it lasts the blasting is excellent.

Charisma is the stat you need, as nice as warmage's edge sounds, it's only a few points of damage, and it's the only thing you really need intelligence for.

Constitution and dexterity are very, very important. You have no defensive spells, so your lightly armored, d6 hit die warmage has about the defensive ability of a bard. This is not exactly awe inspiring. Constitution not only gives you a reasonable amount of hit points and good fortitude saves, but it improves your concentration checks. Combat Casting is only good for when you are using the casting defensively action, and that leaves the vast majority of times you are using concentration uncovered. Even one or two points can make a difference.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-03-23, 11:19 PM
As a suggestion:

Warmages sound cool to begin with, you get to cast spells in armor after all, but in realit, they're rather sub-par.

The vast majority of the Warmages spells are elemental damage spells, which generally suck, since the Meatshield of the party should be able to easily out-damage any blast you can dish out. What you are wanting are Save or Die, Save or Suck, or Battlefield Control. These tend to be the best bang for your buck.

Save or Die, things like Disintigrate, Finger of Death, Phantasmal Killer... these things can one-shot anything with a weak save of the appropriate type (nearly always Fort, although Phantasmal Killer is a Will save). Now then, who has the weakest fort saves and the most ability to wipe out a party? You guessed it, other casters. So when you run across a high-level opponent caster, you pop him with something like Finger of Death and make him save vs his weakest save or croak instantly.

Save or Suck spells are disablers, letting your party walk over them with ease. Slow is an example of this spell, it hits a number of targets equal to your caster level, and they all have to make Will saves or either make a single attack (rather than a full attack) OR make a move action. This will greatly nerf fighter types attacking you, who, coincidentally, have weak Will saves.

Battlefield Control are spells that keep opponents in place and lets your party deal with them on an individual basis. This includes things like Solid Fog, which slows movement down to 5' while in it, and doesn't allow Save *OR* SR, and if you move 5', you can't make your single attack. Other examples would be Color Spray, Stinking Cloud (which is also a Save or Suck effect), and Sleep (which should be considered a Save or Die effect as well, because if it's asleep, the party can Coup De Grace it dead).

To be honest, the only time Elemental Damage comes into play would be on the rare instances you come across oozes or slimes which are all but immune to physical damage but are weak against a specific element. For these cases, pack scrolls.

In other words, a Sorcerer can be just as nasty, if not moreso, than a Warmage. And once you get to about 4th level, you'll be able to get yourself +1 Twilight Mithral Chain which has no ASF chance anyways. Sorcerer gets about as many spells per day (maybe more, don't have Warmage stats in front of me), and also casts spontaniously. He just has access to fewer spells, although he gets to choose which spells he has access too, which are generally better than the Warmage spells (for reasons I've already put forth).

...Eh?
2007-03-23, 11:24 PM
I'll mess around with the stats in a bit. Right now, I need a backup, because I'm not quite sure if I'll be allowed to og outside core. <_<

Player: Joe
Name: Darren Mightfist
Race: Human
Class: Fighter
Level: 1
EXP: 0/1000
Alignment: True Neutral

Str: 18 (+4)
Dex: 16 (+3)
Con: 16 (+3)
Int: 8 (-1)
Wis: 8 (-1)
Cha: 10 (+0)

HP: 13

AC: 18 (+3 Hide, +2 Sheild +3 Dex)

Initiative: +3 (+3 Dex)

Saving Throws:

Fort: +5 (+2 Base, +3 Con)
Reflex: +3 (+0 Base, +3 Dex)
Will: -1 (+0 Base, -1 Wis)

Attack bonuses:

Base: +1
Melee: +5
Ranged: +4

Weapon Stats:

Lance, 1d8, 3, 10 lb., Piercing

Skills:

Climb (Str) +1 (+4 Str, -3 Armor)
Craft (Int) -1 (-1 Int)
Handle Animal (Cha) Rank 4, +4 (+0 Cha, +4 Rank)
Intimidate (Cha) +0 (+0 Cha)
Jump (Str) +1 (+4 Str, -3 Armor)
Ride (Dex) Rank 4, +7 (+3 Dex, +4 Rank)
Swim (Str) +1 (+4 Str, -3 Armor)

Feats:

Mounted Combat
Ride-by Attack
Spirited Charge

Class Features:

Bonus feat

Racial features :

Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
Human base land speed is 30 feet.
1 extra feat at 1st level.
4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.
Automatic Language: Common. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). See the Speak Language skill.
Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.

Equipment:

Lance
Hide
Heavy Wooden Sheild
Light Warhorse
Military Saddle
Rations for 10 days

Cash: 0 pp, 0 gp, 0 sp, 0 cp

Zincorium
2007-03-24, 01:19 AM
This is going to sound a bit odd, but if you're going for a build that's spending everything on mounted combat, you're going to want a small character so that you can actually go into medium size dungeons while still riding. Goblins are one of the better for a mounted build, since you get a +4 racial bonus on ride checks, as well as darkvision which halflings do not get. Get a worg or at least a riding dog and smash your enemies wherever you may find them.

Variable Arcana
2007-03-24, 01:21 AM
The fighter looks reasonable, except:

1) Make sure you're playing an outdoor campaign that's not in dense woods or swamps or the like. Horses aren't so good in dungeons, and then you've blown your three feats and whole combat build.

Edit: Ooh. What Zincorium said. Now I want to try dungeon-crawling with a goblin paladin (celestial worg?).

2) You're going to want at least one backup weapon to the lance -- (i) a melee weapon for close up and (ii) a ranged weapon of some sort.

3) What's your starting gold? (Average lvl 1 fighter starts with 150 gp -- which will buy you the horse and nothing else... If you rolled well, or the DM was generous with the starting gold, then this part's fine.)

The Valiant Turtle
2007-03-24, 08:03 AM
OK, I definitely do not understand what version of point buying you are using here. It's certainly not any of the variants in the DMG, but whatever it is it's producing more or less normal stats, so it's all good, although I would dearly love to make a 76 point buy from DMG rules.

Anyway, on the warmage I would definitely drop Int a bit and shore up your Wis. I also agree that a sorcerer might be better (a warlock might even be better in this situation). It really depends on the party composition. If you are the only arcane spell caster, a warmage is a terrible choice. If there are other arcane casters, then it's fine if that's what you want to do, but I would still consider a sorcerer. Definitely find out what the rest of the group is doing. I personally always recommend group character creation so you'll know how to work together.

If you're not allowed to go outside of core, then a fighter isn't the greatest choice. They also aren't as simple as you might think because to play one effectively you need to be very well versed in all the available combat actions (trip, sunder, grapple, bull rush, attacks of opportunity). I would definitely consider some of the other melee classes. If your DM allows it and someone has it available, the Tome of Battle has wonderful classes and is a lot of fun, but it does add complexity.

Keep in mind that as a fighter, the group typically expects you to try to shield the soft and squishy types from the enemy bad guys, which is hard to do if you are charging around trying to do ride-by-attacks. Again, this is fine if someone else in the party is playing shield, but otherwise a mounted fighter isn't always a good choice. They do perform exceptionally well in the early levels when you don't have multiple attacks available, but in later levels they aren't so hot. If you don't really expect to get to those later levels, it's fine.

For this particular fighter build I would drop the Dex down to about 13 or so, which is enough for most Dex dependent feats. It's a tough call whether to boost Int or Wis, but I'd probably go with Int for more skill points.

brian c
2007-03-24, 10:14 AM
OK, I definitely do not understand what version of point buying you are using here. It's certainly not any of the variants in the DMG, but whatever it is it's producing more or less normal stats, so it's all good, although I would dearly love to make a 76 point buy from DMG rules.

Zinc mentioned this earlier and assumed that its 76 points above 0. 18+16+16+8+8+10 = 76
10+14+10+18+6+18 = 76


Also, @Variable, OP says starting gold is 200gp