Monk vs. Warmage

[the_tick_rules]

I believe it was a warmage, my friends were talking about him having some kinda edge power that increased damage. He was also blind and saw through an blood covered orb, i dunno if that's a part of the class or something else the dm threw in there.
Well long story short my PC group has been captured by a beastmen horde and now we're doing gladitorial combat. Our 4th round was against the guy mentioned above. He shot a lighting bolt down our party which my monk expertly evaded. I then charged him and successfully grappled him. He tried casting a spell to escape but making a concentration check of 20 plus spell level is really hard. Next round i pinned him, so now he couldn't talk or use material componets, essentially crippling him. Oh and the rest of the party joined in stabbing him but he was not going to break my pin so they were just hastening his demise. Oh and with my earth's embrace i was doing 1d8+1d12+3 each round i maintained, so his head was quickly in several pieces as i bashed it into the floor. I also used my stunning fist combined with pain strike which nauseated him for 1 round after the stun, meaning for 2 rounds he could not cast spells each time it succeeded. I'm not trying to stir up the meele vs. spell-caster debate, that will rage forever. I just thought some people might enjoy the story of a level 5 monk with even less hp than the level 8 caster and absolutely dominating him.

[Khantalas]

Can that be because Warmage is a blaster caster at its core, and therefore, not really an effective spellcaster?

[storybookknight]

Monks are the "anti-wizard" class at low levels, it isn't all that surprising.

[Jason Va hater]

I loved it but I am pro monk. I wonder if the DM expected him to get beaten so badly? I sounds like that bad guy had some thought behind him and was not just another chunk of XP.

[marjan]

Not much of a thought if he send someone with poor BAB against the grappler. And besides what could this guy use to escape? Overconfidence on the DM's side I guess. And starting the fight with Lightning Bolt? No that doesn't work in most cases.

Edit: I wonder what would happen if I said that this proves that full casters suck and that Monks are overpowered?:smallamused:

[Assassinfox]

Edit: I wonder what would happen if I said that this proves that full casters suck and that Monks are overpowered?:smallamused:

Bears would start shooting you with lasers?

[Morty]

Edit: I wonder what would happen if I said that this proves that full casters suck and that Monks are overpowered?:smallamused:

You would be flamed so much. Not by me of course, since I loathe most spells that makes Wizards uber and I actually like blaster-casters even though I don't usually play them(yeah, that happens sometimes).

[Ramza00]

Need more information, so far we just know about a 5th lvl monk and an 8th lvl warmage. An intelligently played Warmage can butch that lvl monk considering.

Evard's Black Tentacles (You will lose the Grapple Check of 8+8=16)
Rings of Blades (1d6+8+Warmage Edge)
Fire Shield (1d6+8+Warmage Edge)
Magic Missle (4*(1d4+1)+Warmage Edge) Instant Hit
Scorching Ray (2*4d6+Warmage Edge) Must make touch attack on each one.
Ice Storm (3d6+2d6+Warmage Edge) no saving throw, instant hit

And this is before you throw in the use of your sudden empower of the warmage. What was the hitpoints, and ac of the monk again? A lvl 5 monk should get butchered by a lvl 8 warmage.

More importantly what is the info of the rest of the party. 3 people, 4 people, 8 people? Finally a warmage is a type of person who isn't that good on his own, naked, and can't choose his environment and thus gain advantageous terrain. It would have been alot different if the warmage had a simple scroll of fly.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Monk = anti-caster at low levels.
Warmage = ineffective caster.
Me = unimpressed.

[JaronK]

Warmages aren't casters, they're archers with a different fluff.

JaronK

[Ranis]

Can that be because Warmage is a blaster caster at its core, and therefore, not really an effective spellcaster?

That depends on a lot of things, not least important of which is your definition of the term "effective spellcaster."

[Khantalas]

One that wins the game? Like, a wizard? Or a druid?

[Bears With Lasers]

Like someone said, a warmage is an archer.

An effective spellcaster would've, you know, cast Fly, not Lightning Bolt.

[Ranis]

One that wins the game? Like, a wizard? Or a druid?

Sorry, but IMHO, if you play D&D to "win," then your PoV is already moot to me.

[Khantalas]

Of course not. I play Warlocks and Truenamers. That ought to mean something.

However, a Warmage being beaten by a Monk isn't great news. That's what I was talking about.

[Thrawn183]

Sorry, but IMHO, if you play D&D to "win," then your PoV is already moot to me.

What else would you do, play to die? I like to roleplay my characters with at least some sanity, they usually try pretty hard to avoid needing a resurrection in the first place.

Sorry, that's a knee jerk reaction. I've played intentionally sub-optimal builds before; but, there is a difference between a sub-optimal build and doing things with said build that would not maximize your chances of success. I personally think that that is the difference between someone who plays a weaker character to their fullest and someone who thinks that commiting suicide somehow makes them a better roleplayer.

[Ranis]

What else would you do, play to die? I like to roleplay my characters with at least some sanity, they usually try pretty hard to avoid needing a resurrection in the first place.

I wasn't arguing the fact that bad spell choice=bad roleplayer, it's just that it really bothers me when some people on these boards talk like build optimization=the only way to have a good time, and I know that's probably just my misconstrued perception, but I tend to look at things from the flavor side more than anything else, and if everyone in my party isn't completely min-maxed out, then it's no sweat off my back, really. At least they're making a (hopefully) great story.

And that's what's important, first, foremost, and always.

Besides, I'm sure the OP definitely had a good time, and in the end, that's all that matters. And he was excited enough to tell everyone here, and you all shot him down. Shame on you. D:<

[Zincorium]

I wasn't arguing the fact that bad spell choice=bad roleplayer, it's just that it really bothers me when some people on these boards talk like build optimization=the only way to have a good time, and I know that's probably just my misconstrued perception, but I tend to look at things from the flavor side more than anything else, and if everyone in my party isn't completely min-maxed out, then it's no sweat off my back, really. At least they're making a (hopefully) great story.

And that's what's important, first, foremost, and always.

Besides, I'm sure the OP definitely had a good time, and in the end, that's all that matters. And he was excited enough to tell everyone here, and you all shot him down. Shame on you. D:<

If you're bragging about something that seems from an outsider's perspective to be not that difficult, you're not going to be able to impress them by recounting it. That's just how it works. The OP had a glorious time without any of us there, and that's great.

And while build optimization is not the only way to have a good time, it definitely helps most people to have a good time. You can't 'win' D&D, but you can win individual battles, keep yourself and your friends alive in the face of immense challenges, and wield abilities that are just plain cool. Denying that any of that is fun is just as myopic as denying that having a good backstory and an interesting personality makes the game more fun. Two sides of the same coin.

You should play a game like D&D with rules for combat and other challenges because having rules makes the game more fun for you. If you really don't care about how much damage you can deal or what spell you need to cast to take out a monster, you do have other, better options. Play the game fully for what it is and you'll have a good time, and that's all that needs to be said.

[the_tick_rules]

Well i believe the reason he chose the lightning bolt was because there were 4 of us in a line so it was the perverbial ducks in a row, so the bolt was a very proper attack. If i've learned anything D&D is a game of counters. Everyone and everything has a counter. He casts fly, you do this, well then I do that, and so threads have gone for days. I just felt the story of a wounded monk taking down a spellcaster 3 levels higher without taking a hit was just too good a story to let it go untold, espcially on this forum.

[Aquillion]

Edit: I wonder what would happen if I said that this proves that full casters suck and that Monks are overpowered?:smallamused:Blasters are generally weak compared to other mages... but even then, that Warmage could've been played smarter. He should've thrown down a spell that kept the players from reaching him, not something that just dealt damage.

The problem with dealing damage is that until you get someone's HP below 1, it's usually not going to keep them from fighting at full strength. If you pit someone focused solely on dealing damage up against someone focused on disabling the opposition, disabling is going to win out unless your methods of dealing damage are extreme enough to win in one round (which almost no spells are.)

One of the main reasons normal spellcasters are so powerful is that they have many, many more options available to disable opponents, can disable at range while targetting enemy weakpoints, can 'disable' the opposition without giving them any chance of saving or resisting by using the right buffs on themselves or spells that change the battlefield, etc. But if you pit a pure blaster with no thought for effects, battlefield control, or anything beyond damage dice up against a grappler, the grappler will usually win. This isn't because monks are especially good at grappling or fighting casters (a fighter could have ate the first lightning bolt and done everything else basically as well), but because the way this blaster was being played was stupid.

[Zincorium]

Well i believe the reason he chose the lightning bolt was because there were 4 of us in a line so it was the perverbial ducks in a row, so the bolt was a very proper attack. If i've learned anything D&D is a game of counters. Everyone and everything has a counter. He casts fly, you do this, well then I do that, and so threads have gone for days. I just felt the story of a wounded monk taking down a spellcaster 3 levels higher without taking a hit was just too good a story to let it go untold, espcially on this forum.

Taking down a warmage, who apparently had no other characters around, with a monk, should not be that difficult. Bravo for pulling it off and very possibly saving the party. But warmages are not wizards. They can't dimension door or teleport out of your grasp without a concentration check, like wizards can. They can't summon beasties to keep you busy. They can't even cast a single defensive spell to keep them safe. And you've got darn good saves.

I'm not trying to shoot you down, but it's like an akita mauling a chihuahua.

[the_tick_rules]

I did mention this guy was round 4. We were fighting him after

round 1: 4 lions
round 2: 1 level 6 fighter and 2 level 5 barbarians
round 3: a 5 headed hydra.

We were all wounded as crap. All he had to do was hit any of us once and we were down. had i not dodged the bolt i may have survived one hit if i was lucky.

[Zincorium]

I did mention this guy was round 4. We were fighting him after

round 1: 4 lions
round 2: 1 level 6 fighter and 2 level 5 barbarians
round 3: a 5 headed hydra.

We were all wounded as crap. All he had to do was hit any of us once and we were down. had i not dodged the bolt i may have survived one hit if i was lucky.

Okay, a badly wounded akita mauling a chihuahua.

Honestly, a warmage as the final battle could very easily have killed most of the party, I've never denied that. But a warmage alone is significantly less of a threat than most casters. Had it been a well played sorceror of the same level, I'd rate your chances of winning significantly lower, and thus the resulting glory would be a lot more in my eyes.

Warmages are possibly the worst character of all time in melee combat, so it doesn't really matter in my mind whether you were at full strength or wounded, as long as you were still breathing when you closed to grapple, you were almost garaunteed to win.

[the_tick_rules]

I just wanted to tell a funny story and people are getting so upity. what are you people in love with wizards?

[Khantalas]

That Gnome Rogue / Wizards are just so damned cool it isn't even funny?

Wait, never mind, I thought you asked "what makes you people fall in love with the wizards", my mistake.

But I don't optimize. Really. The most famous warrior in my setting didn't even use Power Attack with his greatsword. It's just that, I got the vibe of "spellcasters can be beaten by monks, which you say is very weak" and I felt the need to correct that line of thought. Sorry if I upset you or made you angry.

[its_all_ogre]

nah i am in love with sorceress' high cha (hot!) high dex (limber!) high con (endurance!).
whats not to love?

good victory to be fair.
reminds me of when my level one wizard had to MELEE an ogre as all the other party members were on negatives or 0hps and i had no spells left!

ok so we died, but it was fun!

[Zincorium]

I just wanted to tell a funny story and people are getting so upity. what are you people in love with wizards?

I'm going to assume you're probably talking about me here. Yeah, you told a story, but it wasn't all that funny, seriously. Yes, you pwned a spellcaster by yourself, wounded, and saved the party. The setup seemed extremely contrived, and there wasn't any humor to be found. You used the right tactics and did incredible amounts of damage, it just isn't funny.

And as far as loving wizards go, I'm a take it or leave kind of guy, but warmages suck for the type of situation that guy was put in. They suck hard. It's far less about how a wizard could have beaten you all than how a warmage really didn't have a chance.

[clericwithnogod]

I just wanted to tell a funny story and people are getting so upity. what are you people in love with wizards?

I liked reading it. It's a nice break from the stories about how messed up something or someone is. It's always nice to read about an encounter that works out really well. A player getting to do something of consequence and doing it in an enjoyable way is what the game is supposed to be about.

Don't take negative posts personally. No matter what you post you're going to get some.

EDIT: Just be glad your opponent wasn't using Monkey Grip or people would be insulting your mother.

[Person_Man]

Warmages aren't casters, they're archers with a different fluff.

JaronK

Actually, a good archer build is much more effective then a Warmage. But I agree with the general point.

[Khantalas]

Are there any negative posts? Not really. Just posts that claim such a victory isn't a special thing.

I envy the OP for enjoying his D&D game. I haven't been able to game for about two months, myself, and feeling the lack of it. I also think that warmages aren't that powerful and monks can easily beat them, wounded or whatever, as long as there isn't a 5+ level difference between them.

[Dausuul]

One that wins the game? Like, a wizard? Or a druid?

That's not an effective caster, that's an overpowered broken uber 733t OMFG PWNED!!!?!?!! caster.

IMO, an "effective" caster is one that can haul his/her own weight as a member of a party. While blasting is nowhere near as powerful as many arcane spells, a blaster can still deal respectable damage, particularly against large numbers of relatively weak opponents. Thus, a well-designed warmage can be quite an effective caster, though he'll never "win D&D" the way a twinked-out wizard or druid can.

[the_tick_rules]

i think the wizardcentrism here, and the forum in general, is getting outta control personally. Now everyone is making excuses oh a warmage isn't a real caster, the warmage wasn't played well, he shoulda done this. In the two attacks he got off he killed a party member, heavily wounded 2 others, took the only full hp member into negatives, and woulda killed me if i hadn't evaded his attack. Then i procceded to kick his ass. It happens, just deal with it.

[Bears With Lasers]

Tick: the Warmage isn't a real caster. That's not an excuse, we've been saying that for some time. The Warmage is a magical archer.
The arcanist's job in a party is to do everything no one else can. The warmage can't do that; he does the thing everyone can do. The warmage does not fill the "arcanist" role in a party.

I mean, good for you that you took him down, but... so what?

[Khantalas]

A Warmage is a real spellcaster - he casts spells, and is real, after all. He just isn't a very good one.

Now, a monk kicking a warlock's butt within the same conditions - that'd be fun to see. Cause a Warlock has invisibility and flight at that level. It'd take him longer to win, but you couldn't even hurt him with a monk.

Yes, yes, a Warlock is weak. But he has flight and invisibility, the greatest defenses of a Wizard against melee opponents.

[Ramza00]

Original Poster, I am glad you have fun. I just was trying to get more information about the sides and the whole encounter so I could visualize it better :)

[kamikasei]

i think the wizardcentrism here, and the forum in general, is getting outta control personally. Now everyone is making excuses oh a warmage isn't a real caster, the warmage wasn't played well, he shoulda done this. In the two attacks he got off he killed a party member, heavily wounded 2 others, took the only full hp member into negatives, and woulda killed me if i hadn't evaded his attack. Then i procceded to kick his ass. It happens, just deal with it.

A warmage isn't a wizard. That's pretty undeniable. He trades the versatility that makes wizards so powerful for specialization in the weakest branch of wizardry. It's hardly "wizardcentrism" to deny that the story of a warmage's defeat by a non-caster has little relevance to the question of whether wizards are indeed more powerful than non-casters.

[Bears With Lasers]

A Warmage is a real spellcaster - he casts spells, and is real, after all. He just isn't a very good one.

By "not a spellcaster", I mean he doesn't fulfill the arcane spellcaster's job in a party.

[Khantalas]

Of course. I wasn't referring to your post though. You simply simu-ninja'd me.

[Henshin_Fanatic]

Tick: the Warmage isn't a real caster. That's not an excuse, we've been saying that for some time. The Warmage is a magical archer.
The arcanist's job in a party is to do everything no one else can. The warmage can't do that; he does the thing everyone can do. The warmage does not fill the "arcanist" role in a party.

Unfortunately, as far as magically empowered archers go, the warmage is pretty weak. The warlock is better and has longer staying power (though I maintain that a warlocks job is battlefield control, they don't get Chillling Tentacles and Wall of Perilous Flames for nothing you know). Not to mention what clerics are capable of when properly built.

[Bears With Lasers]

Unfortunately, as far as magically empowered archers go, the warmage is pretty weak. The warlock is better and has longer staying power (though I maintain that a warlocks job is battlefield control, they don't get Chillling Tentacles and Wall of Perilous Flames for nothing you know). Not to mention what clerics are capable of when properly built.

Yeah, um... no. Sure, cleric-archers are better, but Warlocks?
The Warmage's damage output is vastly better. They also get Black Tentacles (and Warlocks don't get Perilous Flames + Tentacles + Repelling Blast + Chain Blast Shape until late-ish, plus it's really one trick). The Warlock's flight and invisibility let him stay safer, but his Eldritch Blast damage is... well, not quite negligible, but not really significant.

[Khantalas]

Still, as long as he is alive, he can deal damage. A Warmage? Can't.

[Dausuul]

Still, as long as he is alive, he can deal damage. A Warmage? Can't.

Flight and invisibility allow the warlock to "skirmish" some monsters to death. If it can't fly, can't regen, and doesn't have a ranged attack, the warlock can wear it down no matter how tough it is--just plink, plink, plink from a distance.

However, warmages beat warlocks hands down when it comes to dishing up damage in a normal combat scenario.

[Morty]

Actually, Warmage can still be flying and invisible, due to Eclettic Learning variant from PHB II. It doesn't help much, they can do that.

[Person_Man]

Yeah, um... no. Sure, cleric-archers are better, but Warlocks?
The Warmage's damage output is vastly better. They also get Black Tentacles (and Warlocks don't get Perilous Flames + Tentacles + Repelling Blast + Chain Blast Shape until late-ish, plus it's really one trick). The Warlock's flight and invisibility let him stay safer, but his Eldritch Blast damage is... well, not quite negligible, but not really significant.

Comparing Warlocks and Warmages is like comparing different types of bicycles. Bicycle A might have 10 speeds. Bicycle B might have 12 speeds and better tires. But everyone else is driving a car. So why do you care what type of bicycle you're riding?

[ken-do-nim]

I just wanted to tell a funny story and people are getting so upity. what are you people in love with wizards?

I just wanted you to know that I enjoyed your story. I too had a fun time with a monk tackling an uber-caster and it will live long in the retelling. We actually had quite a long thread about it on here because it brought up some very interesting rules dilemmas about trying to jump out of a web spell. I didn't realize it until it happened, but 3E does not have a tackle combat maneuver. Grapple is not quite the same; it involves moving up next to somebody and grabbing them. The difference is that on a grapple, if you fail you stay where you are. On a tackle, if you miss the touch attack you go flying past.

[the_tick_rules]

yeah techincally grappling and pinning make no specifics as to what actually happens during them. So since i charged right at him head on for cinematics we said i tackled him during the grapple. Then when for the pinning it says prone so I said slammed him down and sat on his stomach, grabbed his head and slammed it into the ground until his brains basically came out. it's too bad my DM ruled i destroyed his helmet in the process, it was cool looking. Makes sense since I was keeping him from talking I figured I'd have my hands around his mouth. I guess I need to go kill a pure wizard now don't I :amused:

[marjan]

I guess I need to go kill a pure wizard now don't I :amused:

Yeah. That will shut most of our mouths here for long time. :smallwink:

[Fax Celestis]

Comparing Warlocks and Warmages is like comparing different types of bicycles. Bicycle A might have 10 speeds. Bicycle B might have 12 speeds and better tires. But everyone else is driving a car. So why do you care what type of bicycle you're riding?

Good analogy. Of course, there are places you can go with a bike that you can't with a car.

[Ramza00]

Good analogy. Of course, there are places you can go with a bike that you can't with a car.

A person driving a car can still go into those spaces he just doesn't gain any benefit of the car. He gets out and walks.

Like a wizard who wants spontaneity, that is what scrolls and now runestaves are for.

[the_tick_rules]

Yeah. That will shut most of our mouths here for long time. :smallwink:

Only as long as it would take people to read the battle then say he shoulda cast this instead of that. Wizards get killed, even if they do everything right.

[Noneoyabizzness]

magic missle alone should have killed the monk.

your warmage player denied the simplest advantage.

[ken-do-nim]

magic missle alone should have killed the monk.

your warmage player denied the simplest advantage.

I played a monk who previous to level 13 always wore a brooch of shielding for that reason. Now that she has spell resistance she trusts to that and wears a periapt of wisdom instead.

[marjan]

I played a monk who previous to level 13 always wore a brooch of shielding for that reason. Now that she has spell resistance she trusts to that and wears a periapt of wisdom instead.

And hope enemy spellcasters don't cast Assay Resistance or take Spell Penetration, or...

But still Periapt of Wisdom is better.

@the_tick_rules: Don't get that worked up about posts that you see. All of us here like to argue about everything. After all that's why these forums exist (although it is not their primary function).

[ken-do-nim]

And hope enemy spellcasters don't cast Assay Resistance or take Spell Penetration, or...

But still Periapt of Wisdom is better.


Too bad monks don't get feats to improve their spell resistance. I don't think it's fair to introduce a spell like assay resistance into the game without a counter. We've had Complete Arcane, then Complete Mage. When are going to get Complete Monk?

[marjan]

There is feat but unfortunatly it is Epic. You do have one in BoED but it requires something that monks don't have - CHA 15. And yeah, it is unfair.

[Khantalas]

What do you mean they don't have Charisma 15? My monks have at least 16 Charisma. Also at least 16 Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity and Constitution.

[marjan]

What do you mean they don't have Charisma 15? My monks have at least 16 Charisma. Also at least 16 Strength, Intelligence, Wisdom, Dexterity and Constitution.

Whoa. You have to borrow me some of your monks. Please, pretty please.:elan:

[Person_Man]

Too bad monks don't get feats to improve their spell resistance. I don't think it's fair to introduce a spell like assay resistance into the game without a counter. We've had Complete Arcane, then Complete Mage. When are going to get Complete Monk?

Boost Spell Resistance from Book of Vile Darkness increases your Spell Resistance by 2 (you must be Evil to take).

Improved Spell Resistance is an Epic feat that does the same thing, but any Epic character can take it.

Exalted Spell Resistance from Book of Exalted Deeds increases your Spell Resistance vs. Evil spells by 4 (must be Good to take).

Awaken Spell Resistance from the Draconomicon will give anyone with the Dragon type (dragonwrought kobolds, half-dragons) Spell Resistance equal to their hit dice, and you can take multiple times to increase your Spell Resistance by 2 each time.

But even with these feats, Spell Resistance is usually quite a poor defense, and its duplicative given the Monk's high saves, Evasion, and immunities.

If you want to avoid spell effects, I suggest Hexblade/Blackguard with a Ring of Evasion and high Con and Cha. They're usually much more effective in combat then Monks, and are 95% immune to magic (with the exception of No Save spells and when you roll a natural 1 on your Saves) by ECL 8. High Spell Resistance would be superior, but is basically unattainable for most builds without Incarnum.

[the_tick_rules]

beats having no natural SR though.

[Aquillion]

That's not an effective caster, that's an overpowered broken uber 733t OMFG PWNED!!!?!?!! caster.To be fair...

While wizards are very good, have a lot of strategies and options open to them, and can contribute a lot to the party at high levels, they're not really broken in the way Clerics or Druids can be. As good as a mage is, they always at least benefit from having a fighter and a rogue around, if only because it gives someone to cast buffs on and them an easy, inexpensive way to deal damage after their spells have rendered the enemy helpless. Irresistible Dance, say, is horribly powerful, but it works best when you have party member who can take advantage of the victim's helplessness. Mages can do well even on their own, with the right spell, but they work better in a party, and they still leave everyone with a way to contribute... they don't totally break the game dynamic unless you use a few really broken spells and strategies, or go out of your way to do it.

Even a moderately well-made cleric or druid, on the other hand, can render melee classes (and, indeed, anyone but a full caster) completely and totally obsolete, often without even trying too hard.

[The Mormegil]

I was going to play a quasi-epic campaign. I decided to play a rougish wizard with a few PrCs, then I heard my DM was going to play an NPC Cleric of our level, many times more equipped than us, just to have a good excuse to resurrect all of us. He didn't realize, though, that it was going to dominate all game. And THAT is NOT FUN.

How could he? Simple, just say he was casting a few Rapid Maximized Firestorms in a round, thanks to Divine Metamagic.
My good ol' wizard was kinda overpowered, 'cause he did a 300 damages media in a round, but he was no match for the Cleric even then.

Said this, I think a good spellcaster is able to kill a good monk, just by closing him in a Wall of Force and casting Prismatic Wall inside it... at lower levels he just fly away and cast Magic Missle. Monks are a good class against spellcaster, but they aren't a real match.

[Roderick_BR]

Nice beating ;)
Yup, the grappling option is nice against casters (grappling, that's the word I was trying to remember). I talked about it to my friends, and they told me some interesting ways to get to a wizard. If you manage to get him, you're golden.
Now, about the warmage: Eveyone knows that hurling fireballs/lightning bolts at monks and rogues are waste of time XD