How Permanent is Permanent?

[mister__joshua]

This may have been answered elsewhere, but I couldn't see it. This is a very straightforward True Polymorph question.

If, for the sake of this example, I'm a wizard with true polymorph. I cast this on myself and turn into some amazing beastie (dragon/field/whatever). After getting carried away adventuring I forget to drop the spell and the change becomes permanent!

But, how long is this? Do I revert to normal form after dropping to 0 hit points? Can it be dispelled? Will True Seeing still show me in my original form? Can I voluntarily drop the spell still? If the answer to all of these is no, is my only remaining option to get someone to True Polymorph me back into myself?


Cheers for any guidance. Not likely to come up in our game for months, but I was reading the description and it interested me.

[Madfellow]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure either another True Polymorph or a Wish would be needed to fix it.

[1of3]

Permanent magic is still magic. So yes, dispel works. Antimagic field works.

Instanteous magic on the other hand, does its job and is then gone. Therefore you cannot dispel a spell with duration instantaneous.

[Celcey]

I think it depends on your DM. I personally would rule that you need another True Polymorph/Wish spell, but someone else might rule that you can dispel it. If they did, though, they'd probably rule that it would need to be cast as a 9th level spell in order for it to work.

[HugeC]

As usual, they left it vague and subject to DM interpretation.

[Vogonjeltz]

This may have been answered elsewhere, but I couldn't see it. This is a very straightforward True Polymorph question.

If, for the sake of this example, I'm a wizard with true polymorph. I cast this on myself and turn into some amazing beastie (dragon/field/whatever). After getting carried away adventuring I forget to drop the spell and the change becomes permanent!

But, how long is this? Do I revert to normal form after dropping to 0 hit points? Can it be dispelled? Will True Seeing still show me in my original form? Can I voluntarily drop the spell still? If the answer to all of these is no, is my only remaining option to get someone to True Polymorph me back into myself?


Cheers for any guidance. Not likely to come up in our game for months, but I was reading the description and it interested me.

Unlike 3.5, Permanent isn't a game-defined duration. Presumably it just means the magic is permanently occurring, no longer requiring concentration. So...forever unless other actions are taken.

I'd say yes, you would revert at 0 hit points, that doesn't cease to be an end condition.

Also yes, the spell isn't instantaneous, it's a permanent ongoing magical spell effect.

Also yes, you're transformed by magic, truesight shows the original form.

No you can't drop it voluntarily, it's not a concentration spell anymore.

So recourse actions if you accidentally true polymorph yourself for that duration:
Get "killed" or Dispel Magic.

[Kyutaru]

I'm also of the opinion that being that it is merely making the magical effect "permanent", it's similar to the permanency spells of old. It merely extends the duration of the spell to infinite. It can be gotten rid of the same way you get rid of any polymorph, aside from the concentration dismissal because it's no longer being managed by your brain.

However, this poses a far more interesting turn around.

Let's say I polymorph into a deer permanently. Then I get polymorphed into a rabbit permanently. Then a zebra permanently. Then a shark. Permanently.

Do I now have four concurrently running polymorph effects on me? If I die as a shark, do I revert to a human or a zebra? Or do I become the deer again through "oldest spell" rules? Does dying once as a shark dispel ALL my polymorphed forms? If not, can I polymorph myself into a Human over and over again so that when I die repeatedly, I continually revert to another of my human selves, effectively making me nigh immortal?

Obviously True Seeing still sees me as a human, but what about dispel magic? Does it need to strip me down layer by layer forcing me to morph through a petting zoo of forms if it fails to dispel that form? If so, can't I just cast Polymorph: Giant about eighty-seven times and become effectively dispel resistant through sheer probability?

[mister__joshua]

It's a strange issue. I'm not even sure which way I'd prefer it to work, as a player or DM. It being dispelled sounds mechanically weaker, but I'm not sure it is. It allows the Wizard to change into anything he wants without fear of changing himself forever. It makes it weaker as an offensive spell.

The change being permanent as in always has been/always will be permanent makes it better and worse for buffing. You're now a dragon forever no matter what, but that would make returning to your normal form harder. I also think that this permanent has better story applications from a DM point of view. The cat that used to be a powerful wizard etc.

[Serpentine]

Wait, does Polymorph have an Animorphs-style time-limit-then-you're-stuck-that-way clause in 5th ed? Huh. Neat.

[Kyutaru]

Wait, does Polymorph have an Animorphs-style time-limit-then-you're-stuck-that-way clause in 5th ed? Huh. Neat.

Yes, but it also has a WoW-style murdering-the-sheep-turns-it-back-into-a-danger clause.

It's become essentially what Mages have used Polymorph for this past decade. Temporary crowd control. Turning the villain into a squirrel is no longer a surefire way of defeating it.