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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next The Techsmith, alchemist and engineer extraordinaire! (rogue subclass)



Sindeloke
2014-11-25, 01:05 PM
These guys were their own separate base class in my 3.p homebrew, but they're roguelike enough and subclasses are so versatile in 5 that it's actually super-easy to just make them a new subsystem of an existing class, huzzah!

I am especially looking for feedback on the marvels, since they're the heart of the class and the hardest part to balance, but all input is welcome, as usual.



Techsmith

Your skill and flexibility has served you well in your pursuit of technological marvels, and you've mastered both chemistry and clockwork in support of your goals. You can use your creations to buff your allies, distract and dismay your foes, get into places you shouldn't or even design powerful mechanical companions to aid you in combat.

http://s18.postimg.org/rgl0kc1m1/Robot_and_Engineer_by_Monkey_Paw.png
Source (http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs45/f/2009/069/1/6/Robot_and_Engineer_by_Monkey_Paw.png)

Canny Mechanist
When you take this archetype at third level, you may add twice your proficiency bonus to any checks made to deal with delicate machinery, including bypassing clockwork locks and traps, building machines, and repairing damaged tools or constructs, provided you would be able to add any proficiency bonus at all. You also suffer no chance of misfire when using guns.

Guns deal high damage (2d8 for a 2h rifle), always attack against AC 15 regardless of the target's AC, and add no Dex bonus to damage. They have a misfire range (usually 1 or 2 on the d20, sometimes as much as 1-5) which means they jam, and you have to spend an action to clear them before you can fire again. Reloading eats your free-interaction-while-moving.

Combat Chemistry
You have learned a number of formulae for sophisticated tech and alchemy that you can use in combat, called marvels. These formulae are inscribed in your Schematica, a special blueprint collection you keep with you at all times. The Schematica can take any form, from a leather-bound journal to a collection of vellum sheets hidden in a scabbard to a clever clockwork sphere that unfolds into patterns only you can interpret, but you must have it with you to create your marvels. You begin knowing two formulae and learn one new formula each time you gain an odd-numbered level in this class, provided you meet the prerequisites. You can also add new formulae to your Schematica when you come across them, or through study during down time, again provided you meet the prerequisites.

You are also encouraged to invent new formulae in place of learning existing ones. Work with your DM to create a balanced effect for your level.

Each time you take a long rest, you may spend half an hour to build a number of marvels equal to 4 plus your proficiency bonus. Marvels are inherently unstable chemicals react and degrade, fragile moving parts break and thus they become useless if not used within 24 hours.

Some marvels require your target to make a saving throw. The save DC for these effects is 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Intelligence modifier.

You are proficient with your marvels, should they require proficiency to use.

Clockwork Companion
When you take this archetype at third level, you build a loyal, obedient clockwork companion for yourself. Clockwork companions cannot be healed by normal means, but they can be repaired during a short rest, which restores up to 3 hp/level, or after a long rest, which fully repairs them. If destroyed, you may rebuild your companion by spending 8 hours and 150 gp worth of materials. There are two types of clockwork companions you can create.

Clockwork Scout: This is a Tiny construct with AC 15+ your proficiency bonus, a 60ft fly speed, and the ability to record and re-play up to 5 minutes of visual, olfactory, or auditory impressions. It adds twice your proficiency bonus to Stealth and Perception checks. It has no proficient attacks, and deals only 1 piercing damage on a successful natural attack (applying no modifiers). Its stats are 2 Str, 20 Dex, 10 Con, 9 Int, 6 Wis, 1 Cha and it has 3 hit points plus 2 per character level of its master. It has a small alchemical light with a shutter that sheds light as a lantern when opened.

Clockwork Guardian: This is a Medium construct with AC 11+ your proficiency bonus, a 30ft walk speed, and a bite, claw or slam attack that deals 1d6 damage (piercing, slashing or bludgeoning respectively). It adds your proficiency bonus to attack rolls and Str and Con saves, and twice your proficiency bonus to Athletics checks and to any attempt to resist a shove or grapple. It has either a Climb or Swim speed equal to its walk speed (choose one when you first build it). Its stats are 16 Str, 12 Dex, 14 Con, 5 Int, 6 Wis, 1 Cha, and it has 10 hit points plus 7 per character level of its master.

In combat, your companion acts on your initiative. You can use a bonus action to give it a specific command (such as to attack a particular foe, use the Help action, or retreat to a position). If you give it no commands it will act of its own volition, either continuing to follow your last order, or if you gave none, fleeing to safety (if a scout) or defending you to the best of its ability (guardian). It understands any languages you do, though a clockwork companion cannot speak on its own.

Engineering Aptitude
At 9th level, you can build and take apart machines in your sleep. You deal bonus damage equal to your Intelligence modifier whenever you hit an object or construct, and add double your proficiency bonus on Intelligence checks related to alchemy, architecture, engineering, and mechanics.

You may also add one of the following clockwork effects to your clockwork companion.
Automatic reset. If your companion fails a Charisma, Intelligence or Wisdom save, you may roll the save again as a reaction and take the new result.
Impact gearing. If your companion makes a successful attack, it can attempt a shove or a grapple (choose one when first gaining this ability) against that foe as a bonus action. Scout companions cannot be given this effect.
Onboard toolpack. Any check you could attempt with your thieves' or mechanics' tools, your companion can attempt in your stead, using your modifier. Guardian companions cannot be given this effect.
Self-repair. At the beginning of your turn (or every six seconds, if not in combat), if your companion has less than half its maximum hit points, it heals a number of hit points equal to 1/5 your level.

After a long rest, you may swap out one clockwork effect for another, if you desire, as part of the normal process of preparing your daily marvels.

Master Alchemist
At 13th level, your knowledge of alchemy far outstrips any mundane dabbler's. Alchemical items you craft (such as alchemists' fire, icebore bullets or tanglefoot bags) are increased in potency. Items that deal damage deal additional damage equal to your Intelligence modifier, items with an area of effect have their area increased by 50%, and items with a duration last twice as long. The DC of any saving throws from items you make cannot be less than your techsmith DC, regardless of the item's listed DC.

Marvels do not benefit from this ability.

You may also add one of the following alchemical effects to your clockwork companion:
Flamethrower. As an action, your companion creates a 15-foot cone of flame extending out from its square. Any creature in range takes 3d8 fire damage, or half on a successful Dexterity save. Once used, this ability must recharge. At the beginning of each turn, roll d6. On a 5 or 6, your companion can use flamethrower again. Scout companions cannot be given this effect.
Hypothermic coating. On a successful attack, your companion deals an extra 1d6 cold damage.
Stun cloud. As an action, your companion expels a burst of toxic gas. Any creature within 5 feet must make a Constitution save or be stunned until the beginning of your next turn. Once used, this ability must recharge. At the beginning of each turn, roll d6. On a roll of 6, your companion can use stun cloud again.
Sympathy lens. Your companion can store one magical effect and release it on command, as though cast from a wand or scroll. The magic must first be infused into the lens by a character capable of creating the spell effect (whether naturally or via using an item), and the process requires expending the spell/ability/item charge into the lens, using the normal activation time. Only one such effect can be stored in the lens at once; imbuing a new effect while the old one is still present causes the old one to dissipate and be replaced. Guardian companions cannot be given this effect.

After a long rest, you may swap out one alchemical effect for another, if you desire, as part of the normal process of preparing your daily marvels.

Quick Crafter
At 17th level, during a short rest, if you have fewer than your maximum number of marvels on hand, you may create a number of new ones equal to your Intelligence modifier (up to your normal max).

Sindeloke
2014-11-25, 01:06 PM
MARVEL FORMULAE


Aqueous vigorium. This milky-white chemical improves health and regeneration, immediately granting a character who drinks it a number of temporary hit points equal to 1d8 + your Intelligence modifier + your proficiency bonus, which last until depleted.

Clockwork hornet. This minuscule bug can be released from your hand and directed at an enemy within 30 feet as an action. Upon reaching its target, it begins stinging, buzzing and harassing the foe, causing no damage but producing such extreme annoyance that the target must make a Wisdom save or flee it. Until the end of your next turn, the target behaves as though feared by you (though this is not a fear effect).

Clockwork sparrow. A small gold and brass construct, the clockwork sparrow can fly up to 300 miles in a 12-hour period, while carrying a single object of no heavier than 5 ounces. It will deliver this object to a person matching a description you give when you send it out, and can return to you with another object if it still has time before its 24-hour lifespan runs out.

Improvised Items. Instead of a special techsmith formula, you may learn a jury-rigged version of any normal alchemical or clockwork item. You can't learn to make an item with a normal DC of more than 12+your proficiency bonus. Each time you learn this formula, you can learn to make a different alchemical or clockwork item. Like other marvels, these special jury-rigged items degrade after 24 hours.

Lightning whip. Despite its name, this one-handed finesse weapon is more like a crop than a proper whip. Its short, stiff length is laced with conductive wires and hooked to an alchemical battery in the hilt, allowing it to deal 1d8 lightning damage on a successful hit, in addition to its 1 slashing damage. (Extra damage such as sneak attack is also slashing.)
Though the whip itself does not degrade over time like other marvels, the battery pack is depleted over a 24 hour period, and recharging it counts against your daily marvels.

Phial of resistance. This batch of three small phials offers resistance to your own alchemical effects. Anyone who drinks the liquid inside is immune to the hostile effects of any oils or gaseous marvels you create. This immunity lasts twelve hours.

Pneumatic hammer. A sturdy reaction-driven machine, this loud, 50 lb drill applies multiple severe impacts at a remarkable speed. When properly anchored (a process requiring five minutes' work), it can destroy doors, floors, walls, and solid rock in minutes. The hammer can pound through up to a foot of just about any substance, but if you use it on an object with a break DC greater than 10+your Int+your proficiency, it is destroyed by the effort. Any creature within 100 feet of an active pneumatic hammer is considered deafened.

Power grapple. A spring-locking, self-propelling grappling claw, this tool can be fired as an action at any solid surface, which it will immediately latch on to. It can climb unerringly up to 10 feet per round in any direction, and can support up to a single Large creature or object on its 30-foot rope.

Oil of impact. This oil, when spread on a weapon as an action, creates a thin layer of grease that is toxic to most magical creatures. Such a weapon is considered magic for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity for the next hour. The oil is equally effective on natural weapons, but its toxicity is a concern for the wearer as well and also removes any resistance or immunity to nonmagical damage he or she may possess.

Repulsion bomb. A combination of pacifying chemicals and unpleasant smells, this bomb briefly coats its target in an alchemical liquid that discourages aggression and makes him a low priority to foes. As an action, throw the bomb at any creature within 30 feet. Living creatures who can perceive your target must make a Wisdom save; creatures with unusually strong noses make this save at disadvantage. Creatures (including allies) who fail this save cannot attack the bombed creature, target it with hostile spells, or willingly come within 15 feet of it until the end of your next turn unless no other targets are available.

Smoke cloud. This simple bomb can be launched at any square within 30 feet. Upon impact, it bursts open, filling a 10-ft radius with thick smoke. All smoke-filled squares block line of sight from the outside and anything within is completely obscured.
At the end of each of your turns after throwing a smoke cloud, roll d6. On a result of 1, the cloud disperses and the effect ends.


Aqueous impervium. This gray-purple liquid, when spread over the skin as an action, bonds and hardens into a flexible but resilient shell, granting resistance to bludgeoning, slashing, piercing, poison and force damage. After one minute, it flakes off harmlessly.

Clockwork wings. These collapsible wings attach to a stiff harness and can be designed for any Medium or smaller creature (or even bolted on to your clockwork companion, if you desire). They furl to a relatively unobtrusive state or unfurl into their full spread as a bonus action. While the wings are unfurled, the creature takes no falling damage and can glide its speed each round (moving laterally or down, but never climbing). The creature may engage the mechanisms to flap the wings and increase its altitude (ascending at a maximum of half its speed, using a bonus action each round to do so), but the wings will break and fail if used this way for more than one minute. They can be repaired from this stress during a short rest.

Clockwork wings do not degrade like other marvels, but they are fragile in combat. Each time a creature wearing the wings in their unfurled state is hit by an attack or makes a Strength, Dexterity or Constitution save, roll d20. On a result of 1-2, the wings are severely damaged, immediately fail, and must be repaired as part of your daily marvel preparation to be used again. At level 17 this chance of failure decreases to a roll of 1.

Elixir of alchemical extension. When imbibed, this phial of bluish-green syrup increases the potency of your other alchemical effects. For twelve hours, any alchemical marvel applied to the consumer of this elixir is doubled in duration. If the effect has no duration, but instead a random chance to dissipate, that chance is halved (so an emnity bomb would disperse only on a roll of 1, for example).

Emnity bomb. This volatile sack of pheromones can be thrown at a creature up to 30 feet away. It bursts on contact, coating its target in a powerful stench that inspires fear and loathing. Any living, smelling creature that begins a turn within 10 feet of the target must make a Wisdom save; creatures with unusually strong noses make this save with disadvantage. On a failed save, the creature cannot make attacks or cast spells this turn that do not target the source of the stench (though they are under no obligation to attack at all; weak or cowardly creatures may choose to run instead).

At the end of each of your turns after throwing an emnity bomb, roll d6. On a result of 1 or 2, the cloud disperses and the effects end.

Flashbang. A bomb with phosphorescent components, a flashbang creates a brief, brilliant flare of light. Anyone who can see it (apart from its user) must make a Dexterity save or be blinded until the beginning of your next turn, and have disadvantage on all attacks and Dexterity saves for the next round after.

Noxious cloud. This bomb, which can be thrown up to 30 feet, is filled with a nauseating cocktail of foul stenches and emetics that fills a 10-foot radius around the point of impact. Any living creature that begins its turn in the radius of the cloud must make a Constitution save; creatures with unusually strong noses make this save with disadvantage, and creatures immune to poison automatically succeed. On a failed save, the creature's speed is halved and it becomes incapacitated by nausea and vomiting until the beginning of its next turn.

At the end of each of your turns after throwing a noxious cloud, roll a d6. On a result of 1, the cloud disperses and the effects end.

Oil of immolation. This oil, when spread on a weapon as a bonus action, ignites into green-hot flame at its first exposure to air. The next successful attack with the weapon deals an extra 3d6 fire damage. Nonmagical weapons made of wood or otherwise flammable materials are badly damaged by the flame and deal only half damage thereafter until repaired.

Oil of subtlety. A sort of counter-perfume, this oil, when applied to a creature as an action, slightly deadens any sound that creature or its equipment makes and neutralizes any scent it normally emits. For the one hour that the oil lasts, the creature cannot be detected by smell, leaves no scent trail, and has advantage on Stealth checks.

Rail rocket. This hazardous-looking contraption costs 1200 gp in materials to construct and involves a minimum of eight hours of work, but does not break down over time. Resembling nothing so much as a tightly-sprung ballista, the rail rocket can launch an object as a siege weapon, but is primarily designed to launch people. It comes equipped with several parachutes and can be mounted for half movement; once on board, a creature can launch itself up to a mile through the air, landing three rounds later at its target destination. Parachuting is not inherently safe, and a DC 15 Dexterity (acrobatics) check is required to make landfall without incurring 3d10 damage.

Shrieker bomb. Not actually a bomb in the conventional sense, the shrieker is a whirling clockwork contraption that, when thrown at any square within 30 feet, emits a shrill, earsplitting whistle until destroyed. Any hearing creature within 300 feet of an active shrieker at the beginning of its turn is deafened for one round and must make a Constitution save or lose concentration. The shrieker is a Tiny object with 5 hp.

Thunderlance. A curious gunlike weapon, similar in appearance to a barakazil, the thunderlance combines clockwork and alchemical reactions to create a bolt of sonic force that can blast an enemy up to 60 feet away with 2d4 thunder damage. A thunderlance is slightly easier to handle than a normal gun, attacking against AC 13 rather than 15.

Though the lance itself does not degrade over time like other marvels, the battery pack is depleted over a 24 hour period, and recharging it counts against your daily marvels.

Because of the fragility and volatility of these powerful marvels, you can't safely have more than one of each type on your person at once.

Aetherbreaker. This fragile flask of silvery alchemical substance can be thrown at a creature within 30 feet, forcing it to make a Dexterity save or be coated in the antimagical fluid. An affected creature loses concentration and cannot cast spells or cantrips, channel divinity, use lair actions, project auras, or make any other supernatural action fueled by their own power or personal divine connection. The creature can still use magic items and mundane abilities, if it possesses them, but any magic active on it when it is hit is ended.

This effect lasts until the creature takes an action to wipe off a significant amount of the fluid. Depending on its size, physical confirmation, intelligence, and the proximity of water or fabric, it may be forced to go prone and roll or scrape to accomplish this.

Aqueous accelerat. A green-brown and extremely bitter fluid, this alchemical substance enhances speed and reflexes. It can be drunk as a bonus action, granting unusual quickness to its consumer until the end of their next turn; during this time, their speed doubles, and they may make either one extra action, one extra bonus action, or one extra reaction.

Boom barrel. A small wooden cask packed with gunpowder and augmenting chemicals, the boom barrel is typically used for road construction, mining, and demolition, but finds occasional use as a siege weapon and general tool of war. Once lit, the fuse burns for one minute, then detonates the materials inside, dealing 10d6 fire damage and 10d6 bludgeoning damage to any creature or object within 60 feet, plus another 10d6 bludgeoning damage to anything within 100 feet. Boom barrels easily collapse structures or tunnels, or leave deep craters in open ground.

Clockwork armor. This mechanized suit of armor has a broad array of built-in tools, spring-loaded strength boosters, and destructive gadgets. It sets your AC to 19, grants advantage on all Strength (Athletics) checks, adds 1d6 lightning damage to any unarmed or natural attack you make, has built-in lights that provide illumination as a lantern when active or built-in optics that provide darkvision 60 ft (your choice when crafting it), and can produce a burst of static that deals 2d6 lightning damage to any creature within 5 feet as a bonus action (recharge 5 or 6). Its heavy gauntlets and clanking parts, however, impose disadvantage on Stealth checks, and on Dexterity checks to do delicate work such as lockpicking or disarming traps.

Though the suit itself does not break down over time, its battery depletes over 24 hours, leaving it nothing but a 1 AC heavy armor, and an extremely cumbersome one without its mechanical support (imposing disadvantage on all attacks, checks, and Str or Dex saves). Recharging the battery counts against your daily marvels.

Hypnotic orb. This clockwork device has a small glass screen that flashes with bizarre, entrancing patterns and a music box that plays a haunting melody as it hovers in front of its target. As an action, it can be thrown at any creature within 30 feet, forcing the creature to make a Wisdom save or be stunned for one minute, unable to look away from the orb. Each time it is attacked or forced to make a save against another effect, it is afforded a new save to break free of the orb.

Short-term augments. When you make an adjustment to change your clockwork companion's alchemical or clockwork effect, you may add one additional clockwork or alchemical effect to it for which it qualifies.

Sindeloke
2014-11-29, 08:24 AM
Aww, no thoughts from anyone?

bloodshed343
2014-11-29, 03:31 PM
I had to go to the 5e forums and beg some more experienced players to review my work.

I really don't have enough experience with the system to make a meaningful critique.

PS: how do I get that nifty red tag?

bloodshed343
2014-11-29, 03:33 PM
PPS: Wanna help me with subclasses for Swordmage? =D

Sindeloke
2014-12-07, 08:33 PM
PPS: Wanna help me with subclasses for Swordmage? =D

Haha, sure, do you have a forum link?


PS: how do I get that nifty red tag?

When you go to post a new thread, there's a drop-down box for "prefix" right above the box for your thread title. Choose 5e/Next. :smallsmile:


Anyway, I made a minor edit, replacing jury bullets with an all-purpose "learn temp version of any alchemical item" ability. Alchemical bullets are still learnable this way, but now you can also have unlimited tanglefoot bags too.

bloodshed343
2014-12-08, 05:24 PM
Haha, sure, do you have a forum link?



When you go to post a new thread, there's a drop-down box for "prefix" right above the box for your thread title. Choose 5e/Next. :smallsmile:


Anyway, I made a minor edit, replacing jury bullets with an all-purpose "learn temp version of any alchemical item" ability. Alchemical bullets are still learnable this way, but now you can also have unlimited tanglefoot bags too.

Here's the link:http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?385373-5e-Swordmage-homebrew

My favorite marvel has got to be the hookshot. I always carry at least three grappling hooks.

The pneumatic hammer is a bit too much, though. A dc of 30 is "nearly impossible" which would be the rating on, say, Bane's fortress gates. It should start at a lower score (say, 10+int+proficiency), then have a higher level version with a better score. Having the ability to auto-succeed on every smash check in the game is just too much at 3rd level, despite the fact that it gives you disadvantage on stealth and perception checks.

Sindeloke
2014-12-10, 04:26 AM
Hmn, right you are. My goal with the totally-not-a-steampunk-jackhammer-I-swear was to find a non-magical way to emulate things like stone shape and passwall in obstacle-clearing capability. But those aren't online until much higher level. What if I kick it up to lvl 9, drop it down to max of DC 30, and say that it breaks if you use it on something with a DC higher than 10+Int+Prof? That way you can get through Bane's fortress gates, but now you're stuck in the vestibule in front of the DC 30 inner door and everyone in a 2-mile radius knows you're here.

Leuku
2014-12-10, 06:18 AM
Halloa!

Allow me to weigh in, and I hope you'll take a look at my Bowmaster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387137-The-Bowmaster-class-with-3-Subclasses) and Path of the Weapons Master (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?387548-Monk-Subclass-Path-of-the-Weapons-Master)

Lessee.

So you get Canny Mechanist, Combat Chemistry, AND Clockwork Companion at 3rd level? Pretty hefty 3rd level. Fortunately they're all very niche, so that balances, (although no misfire on a gun is pretty strong, considering how strong a consequence a misfire has).

Wow, your companion is REALLY expensive. It's basically a more inconvenient Beast Master Ranger's animal companion.

Clockwork Scout: Wow, it could get easily downed in one shot with 9 starting HP, though that is pretty awesome AC. Good stuff, good stuff, there's not a thing I don't like. Let's hope to god no one attempts to charm it.

Guardian: I don't like how it has three saving throw proficiencies. Clockwork Scout is the one with obscenely high Dex, so I think the Dex saving throw proficiency should be dropped on the Guardian. 31 Hp at 3rd level, wow, that's pretty beefy! It may have more HP than your Rogue! It's got the same hit-die size as your rogue, eh? Bonus action attack capability, huh; that's pretty strong. But its damage is really weak, and it doesn't appear to increase with level. What the guardian does, though, is guarantee that you can deal sneak attack. Which isn't a big deal, considering you'd stick to your party's fighter otherwise.

It bothers me a bit that the Guardian is basically doubling your HP pool, yet at the same time its AC is quite low, so it'll probably be getting hit pretty often. Your repairing mechanic seems to scale pretty well, though. At level 3, the Guardian will have 31 HP and you'll be able to repair 6 hp, approximately 20% of its hp. At level 20, the Guardian will have 150 HP and you'll be able to repair 40 hp, approx 26% HP. Hmm, actually, if anything your repair mechanic is too weak.

Maybe it should be 3 hp per level? At 3rd level, The Guardian will have 31 HP and you'll be able to repair 9 HP, 29%. At 20th level, 150 HP and repair 60 HP, 40%. That's much better. I say it should be 3 HP per level.

9th level: Does self-repair work even out of combat? Because if you install that in to your companion, then so long as your companion doesn't die you'll never have to worry about repair again.

Can you change out these things? Like uninstalling and re-installing modules? I would like to be able to change my companion's setting. Maybe during short rests. Or even during 5 minute periods. 5 minute periods would not be game breaking for such minor effects. But again, I'm worried about the self-repair: How about self-repair stops when the companion reaches half its HP? Like how the self-repair upgrade works in the Starcraft II Terran Campaign.

13th level: Flamethrower - Flamethrowers are usually swept side to side. I think it should be a 15 ft. cone. Besides, line spells are usually really, really long because of how limiting a line is.

I would imagine that these take longer to install, so only during long rests.

Otherwise, awesome. I would play this. I would go full GirlGenius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php#.VIf0ZnvfEZw) (I'm a guy) on this.

I'll look at the Marvels in a second post.

Leuku
2014-12-10, 06:45 AM
OK, first off, at 3rd level you start off with 6 total Marvels; that's quite a lot. By 17th level, you can carry 10 total Marvels; that is not a very significant change. That may not be a good thing.

Since these are per long rest, one needs to think of them in terms of limited Spell Slots.

Clockwork Hornet: That is a pretty damn strong effect for a 3rd level rogue. How about you instead make it a fear effect, forcing the combatant to run away from the threat?

Elixer of Alchemical Extension: This sounds like a thing that should come at a later level. A Marvel that can augment a Marvel from the get go? Sounds more like a 9th level thing.

Firework Bundle: So... Dancing Lights, but only once per long rest per Marvel, and incredibly minor damage if you happen to be right next to its source. I'm... not sure how exactly this is worth a Marvel. This sounds more like something you could just craft normally, the only limit being time and materials.

Improvised Item: Again, another Marvel augmentation Marvel.

Phial of Resistance: I don't get how this would work. How can it make you immune to the Lightning Whip?

Pneumatic Hammer: This sounds like a higher level item. Even then, a 40 Str check? Those don't even exist. With that much power, it should be able to instantly destroy adamantium in a single strike. I would either nerf it heavily or just take it out. It must be freakin heavy to carry, too.

Power Grapple: How long is the rope? What action does it consume?

Oil of Illumination: Permanent Lighting? Sounds like Witchcraft! Every form of light has a source, and the source is a form of power. For a thing to be lit up permanently, it must have an eternal power source. That is the fantasy pipe dream of Alchemy, of building a non-stop motion device. I call shenanigans on an eternal alchemy light. Even magic has a source and thus a limit. Also, why bother with this when someone could just acquire an ever-burning torch? Or just regular torches, and keep a few spare? Or be a caster and have the Light cantrip? This sounds more like a thing you should be able to do on your own time with your own materials rather than as a limited Marvel resource.

Replusion Bomb: This sounds more like a Constitution saving throw. Also maybe add - "If the target has a sense of smell, it must also make a Constitution saving throw; on a fail, it becomes stunned. If it fails its next saving throw, it becomes incapacitated."

Smoke Cloud: The dispersal mechanic is... weird. Maybe make it last 1d4 + 1 rounds, or something.

There are a lot of these, so I'm going to split each level of Marvels in to a new post.

Leuku
2014-12-10, 07:12 AM
Aqueous Impervium: Woah, that's pretty beefy! Resistance to all except two rather uncommon damage types? For entire encounters? I feel iffy on that. It sounds like it should just make on resistance to Bludgeoning, Piercing, Slashing, and maybe Poison and Disease. After all, why is it weak against thunder but strong against Lightning? Or maybe you should choose a damage type at the time that someone drinks it, like a dial on it that your turn as a bonus action.

Clockwork wings: The wings should require an action to flap. Also make the limit 1 minute. 5 minutes of flying is a damn descent amount of time to ascend in to the air. And there's only a 5% chance for it to break when its user is hit by an attack? That's a pretty damn low chance. It should be more like 1 in 5 chance.

Emnity bomb: There are no such things as Will saves. Also, this is a ridiculously powerful ability. Throw it on the BBEG who is surrounded by his many minions and they'll all gang up on him. Odds are the BBEG will go down in one round. That's ridiculous even for 17th level. I say Take This Out!

Noxious cloud: An incapacitating effect; again that's pretty damn freakin strong. A lot of these Marvels are basically Save or essentially Die; which 5e did mostly away with.

Oil of immolation: 2d6 additional fire damage for 1 minute!? Do you have any idea how OP this is? Throw this on a lvl 9 Greatsword Fighter and he's doing 8d6 per attack action, 16d6 on action surge! 1d6 additional damage, and even metal weapons are ruined. Ever watch Game of Thrones? All metal swords become useless after you've lit them on fire.

Rail rocket. This hazardous-looking contraption costs 1200 gp in materials to construct and involves a minimum of eight hours of work, but does not break down over time. Resembling nothing so much as a tightly-sprung ballista, the rail rocket can launch an object as a siege weapon, but is primarily designed to launch people. It comes equipped with several parachutes and can be mounted for half movement; once on board, a creature can launch itself up to a mile through the air, landing three rounds later at its target destination. Parachuting is not inherently safe, and a DC 15 Dexterity (acrobatics) check is required to make landfall without incurring 3d10 damage.

Cooooooool. I'll be the first to ride the Rail Rocket.

Shrieker bomb: No automatic concentration breaking. Targets get to make a constitution saving throw like normal. But make the Shrieker bomb something that'll keep screaming for a few rounds, so a caster will inevitably break concentration at some point until someone smashes the Shrieker.

Thunderlance: So you basically get a 3d6 elemental 60 feet range weapon with unlimited uses for 24 hours? That's better than any firearm. Give it actual charges of use. 10 max.

Leuku
2014-12-10, 07:22 AM
Aetherbreaker: Woah. This is better than most 9th level spells. But this is 17th level, and you can only carry one of these types of Marvels per Long Rest, so I guess it's OK.

Boom barrel: That's actually really minor damage for an effect so large. You should increase the damage. 10d6 bludgeoning and 10d6 Fire at least. It's still only 60 average damage.

Clockwork armor: Crazy excessive bonuses but no drawback to using it? If you're in a suit of mechanical armor like the suits portrayed in Legend of Korra, then I'd imagine that you'd have less than stellar vision due to having to look through colored glass and not having a limited view window. And why would the suit have both Darkvision and light illumination? I'd make it just have light illumination. AND +3 AC!? It's equivalent to a Legendary Magic Armor? No way, Jose. What it should do instead is replace whatever armor value you have for an AC of 19. Also, I'd imagine your movements would be constrained in it, like reducing the number of attacks you can make with an Attack action constrained. Or something. Lastly, 24 hours for such a strong bonus is a long ass battery life.

Short-term augments: What?

bloodshed343
2014-12-10, 03:03 PM
Damn leuku, that was thorough. How about you take a look at my swordmage? :P

Leuku
2014-12-10, 05:03 PM
I was looking at your Swordmage a couple days ago, but there's a lot of ground to cover.

I started making these replies to these homebrews because I was sad that my homebrews weren't getting much reviews. So I thought I'd look through the 5e homebrews that equally weren't getting any comprehensive reviews and throw my lot in; how can I expect to get reviews if I won't give them?

But your Swordmage has plenty of reviews already.

Ah, I DID make a review, but not here. Someone pulled up your Swordmage and asked about it on the Dnd subreddit; Found it! I'll reproduce it here:

Be forewarned that the following may be outdated; it's from 3 days ago and I'm just copying and pasting.


There's a typo for Cantrips Known at 4th level.

The class gets access to 5th level spell slots waaaaaaay too soon. At best, it should have the spell slot progression of the Paladin or Ranger, who /u/JamesMusicus, compiler of the 5e Homebrew Class Guidelines, explains are "Half-Casters".

3 Skill proficiencies is too many; especially considering this is a cross between Eldritch Knight and Wizard, both of whom have 2 skill proficiencies at first level. Reduce it to 2.

Sword Bond: Elemental weapon damage at level 1 may be a bit too much. I'm not sure it's too much, though. There's just no parallel between it and any other class, so it's hard to tell if it's a big deal or not.

Insightful Dodge - Weird that the Wisdom modifier in place of Dexterity modifier for AC comes up at 3rd level. Normally you'd see that sort of AC math-change at level 1. If anything, it makes this class a bit weaker, as you have to decide at 1st level to have more Dex so that you can survive levels 1 and 2, or have more Wis to take advantage of this feature and risk lower AC for levels 1 and 2.

Grimoire of the Soul: Nothing bad about this.

This class appears to lack any Extra Attack features, making it lag far, far behind on any martial magic user, like the Eldritch Knight, Paladin, and Ranger.

Overload: This appears to make up for the lack of Extra attack. But take note of the Cleric: At 8th level, a cleric can one per turn add 1d8 damage to a weapon attack. At 14th level, the bonus damage is 2d8. The Cleric also lacks an Extra Attack feature.

Overload is a 6th level feature with double the bonus damage compared to the Cleric at 8th level.

Reclaim Soul: Can't really judge the strength of this; you shouldn't have to worry about it, as reaching 20th level should be a long away pipe dream for now.

I wonder: When one chooses a Ward, can one only choose from the list at the current level, or can someone take lower level wards?

The fact that you can only use a specific ward once per short/long rest and that each lasts an hour long actually dramatically reduces the flexibility of this class. You have many wards geared toward specific elements. What if you have back to back encounters, one with a fire-breather and one with a lightning-exhaler? You activate the fire-based ward against the fire-breather, then 5 minutes later you face a lightning-monster. You can have only 1 ward at a time, and you don't recover a ward until a short or long rest, so do you sacrifice the last 55 minutes of your Fire ward for your Lightning ward?

Kinda sucks balls the way it's mechanically structured. Each ward is pretty damn strong, considering all of them grant a +2 bonus to AC in addition to all their effects.

I don't like how the secondary effects are all "Reduce damage equal to Con Mod" - that kind of fight-math-calculation is precisely the thing that 5e is trying to avoid. But it's not exactly a big deal.

Otherwise, my opinion is that the Wards are not game-breaking, especially considering their lack of flexibility.

The fact that the 20th level feature "Reclaim Soul" has nothing to do with recovering/improving your wards is really, really wonky. Most 20th level features for classes are about reclaiming uses of primary class features, like the Bard's inspiration die.

Subclasses:

Elemental Dervish.

Speed of Thought - Everyone is proficient in attacking with two weapons, so there's no point to this specific part of the feature.

Elemental Blade - No. Too much damage stacking. While wielding two weapons you are bonded with, you are potentially dealing double con mod damage during your turn and extra Con Mod damage on turns you attack outside of your turn. You already get a bonus to your offhand attack at 2nd level equal to your Wis mod. And you're seriously risking a lot of Multiple Attribute Dependency, splitting scores in Int, Con, and Wis.

Additionally, a lot of these subclass features seem to appear at the same time when the class gets access to new spell slots. That's a big no no. Access to a higher level spell slot replaces any class feature you could have gotten at that level. This needs serious fixing. If we use the Half-Caster spell slot table, then the Swordmage would get new level slots at: 5th, 9th, 13th, and 17th.

As evidenced by the Extra Attack feature a Paladin gets at 5th level, it's OK to have something like Extra attack appear alongside a new slot. But take note that the paladin does not get any features at levels 9, 13, and 17.

Dragon's Teeth - No. Just no. This feature would turn you in to a multiple creature targeting guy with a greatsword, every round, which is really wonky considering the Swordmage is limited to low damage swords and this subclass in particular focuses on dual wielding.

You may not have any extra attacking features, but this feature would still let you potentially attack more creatures every round at 10th level than a Fighter with 2 extra attack features at 11th level. For 2d6 damage, up to a maximum of 5d6 damage on a creature you target with both cones.

Coronal Guard.

Unbreakable - Yeah, OK. Your AC is already going to be really, really high just being a straight up sword mage, but sure let's tack another +1 AC on top of it. I'm only being semi-sarcastic because this isn't game-breaking either - it's not that big of a deal. The shield's range should be 20/60, not 30/60.

Ever-present escort - Hmm. Hmmmmm... Ehhh... the fact that you can stop all of an enemy's attack with a successful shield hit sounds like a Red Flag to me, but the fact that you can only do it so many times per short rest mitigates that red flag. Hmm... I dunno. The higher the level the party, the more OP this becomes, due to the higher frequency of multiple attacks from higher level creatures. So the higher the level you go, the more game-breaking this feature approaches.

Unstoppable - WHAT!!!?? NO. Just no. This is not a 7th level feature. This is a capstone feature. This is what you should get like at 17th or 18th or 20th level.

Expansive Ward - No. Your wards are already freaking strong. The Auras the Paladin produces don't come close to the strength of your wards. No way should you be able to give your party within 30 feet of you +2 AC in addition to everything else in a ward. And the Paladin's aura features don't reach 30 feet in radius until 18th level, so that should show you how OP this feature is.

Student of Malediction.

Hell's Implement - Not entirely sure why the Glaive is hell's implement. A trident would be more aptly flavorful to me. The extra damage is similar to a Warlock's, so it's not that big a deal.

Maledictor's Curse - First off, I've noticed a trend of 50 feet ranges. Things should on average be multiples of 30 feet, with 10 foot reach and 20 foot thrown weapon ranges being exceptions. Regarding the feature itself, No. Do not do the -2 penalty to attack rolls. That's the exact sort of numbers bookkeeping that 5e is trying to avoid. It's too 4e, and 4e is the edition I play.

Fiendish Transference - Ehhh... not bad.

Baleful Hex - Sure, OK, whatever, but at what levels can you cast Hex?


I'll also provide the link to the reddit threat so you can see other reviews. (http://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/2oi7k1/5e_player_wants_to_play_this_custom_class_my_gut/)

bloodshed343
2014-12-10, 09:51 PM
I was looking at your Swordmage a couple days ago, but there's a lot of ground to cover.

I started making these replies to these homebrews because I was sad that my homebrews weren't getting much reviews. So I thought I'd look through the 5e homebrews that equally weren't getting any comprehensive reviews and throw my lot in; how can I expect to get reviews if I won't give them?

But your Swordmage has plenty of reviews already.

Ah, I DID make a review, but not here. Someone pulled up your Swordmage and asked about it on the Dnd subreddit; Found it! I'll reproduce it here:

Be forewarned that the following may be outdated; it's from 3 days ago and I'm just copying and pasting.



I'll also provide the link to the reddit threat so you can see other reviews. (http://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/2oi7k1/5e_player_wants_to_play_this_custom_class_my_gut/)


Thanks!

The Swordmage isn't meant to be a half-caster like the paladin, it's meant to be a "3/4 caster". Not as good at casting as a warlock, not as good in melee as a paladin. I was hoping to make it somewhere in the middle.

Can you help me think of a feature to replace elemental blade and Unbreakable? I'm thinking maybe a bonus action dodge/disengage for the dervish and... I don't know what to replace Unbreakable with.

I really want to keep Dragon's Teeth. Maybe I can make it x times per short rest.

I'll replace the expanded ward with the ability to cast a ward on an ally instead of yourself x times per day.

Well, this seems like an inappropriate place to talk about my homebrew, so I'm gonna steer this back toward the OP :P.

To the OP: this should have a subclass support for a sword-and-board character who uses bombs, longbows, hook-shots, hammers, and boomerangs. Some sort of "Hero of time".

Sindeloke
2014-12-13, 10:01 AM
Spit-tons of awesome

Whoa dang! Thank you for that exhaustive breakdown! I will definitely check out your classes as well.


Companion stuff

Yeah, my main intent with the guardian was that it would be a sort of living shield. It's not really supposed to do noteworthy damage, since rogues have pretty good sustained damage already, and techsmiths get alchemist's fire and boom barrels for burst. Mostly it's there to offer reliable sneak attack and a little bit of crowd control to keep things off your back. Given its HP, though, you're right, it's probably fair to strip the Dex save. I'm with you on the repair math, too, I'll kick that up to 3. I didn't really consider the armor because constructs are common in my setting, so things like installable armor plating can just be purchased without investing class resources, but maybe I should slap something like that in as an available modification for folks who would use this in their own homebrews. I'll mull it.

Swapping out the modifications makes sense, though I think I'd prefer to keep it all to a long rest just for simplicity. I'll make it an optional part of the daily marvel prep. That'll let me make Short-term Augments more clear, too: "When you alter your companion's modifications, you may add one additional modification from those available to you."

Self-repair isn't supposed to work out of combat, but now that you mention it, locking it to half HP and letting it work wherever is a lot better (and less blatantly gamey).


Otherwise, awesome. I would play this. I would go full GirlGenius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php#.VIf0ZnvfEZw) (I'm a guy) on this.

It is not impossible that that comic was some part of the inspiration for this. :smallwink:


at 3rd level you start off with 6 total Marvels; that's quite a lot. By 17th level, you can carry 10 total Marvels; that is not a very significant change. That may not be a good thing.

Hmn. I don't want to go much higher than 10. What if I start at 1+prof, and each time they get an archetype level they get one extra? That goes from 3-10, so a lower floor without improving the ceiling. Starts to feel a little complicated though.


Improvised Item: Again, another Marvel augmentation Marvel.

Not exactly. I feel like a techsmith should be able to have alchemist's fire, tanglefoot bags, and a handful of alchemical bullets or vials of silver without having to go to a lot of silly expense. I suppose a marvel is pretty expensive too, though. IDK. My DMG just came yesterday so I'm going to take a look at the crafting rules, I may just end up scrapping this and wrapping improved, cheaper crafting into Master Alchemist.


Phial of Resistance: I don't get how this would work. How can it make you immune to the Lightning Whip?

It didn't occur to me that that would even come up, to be honest. It's there to combo with Emnity Bomb so you can make your tank more appealing to enemies without forcing your own guys to attack him, or let yourself run into your own noxious cloud to stab people. I suppose if you get mind-whammied that would be a thing... maybe I should make it explicit that it applies only to oils and gases?

Speaking of noxious cloud, it doesn't seem that strong to me, certainly not save-or-lose, since incapacitated is just "can't act or react." You can still run out of the cloud (in one turn, even at half speed) and you don't take any defensive penalties, and I don't think stuff like Legendary Resistance or Lair Actions are prohibited either, though that's a DM call I guess.


Pneumatic Hammer:

Everybody hates on the hammer :smallfrown:


Oil of Illumination: Permanent Lighting? Sounds like Witchcraft! Every form of light has a source, and the source is a form of power. For a thing to be lit up permanently, it must have an eternal power source. That is the fantasy pipe dream of Alchemy, of building a non-stop motion device. I call shenanigans on an eternal alchemy light. Even magic has a source and thus a limit. Also, why bother with this when someone could just acquire an ever-burning torch? Or just regular torches, and keep a few spare? Or be a caster and have the Light cantrip? This sounds more like a thing you should be able to do on your own time with your own materials rather than as a limited Marvel resource.

That's right, Light is a free infinite cantrip now. Making flames took a limited use spell resource back in 3.5, and this was just the equivalent. Guess I'll knock it down to a mundane alchemy item. But sure it's the fantasy pipe dream of alchemy! It's a fantasy game! That's what we're here for! :smallbiggrin:


Smoke Cloud: The dispersal mechanic is... weird. Maybe make it last 1d4 + 1 rounds, or something.

The roll-to-disperse is just the reverse of the roll-to-recharge that they introduced in 4e for dragon breath, etc. You see it in a few places in the 5e MM as well. I really like it because I hate tracking effects round-to-round. I could make it a parenthetical system, though, like monster damage is in 5e - ie, "Disperse on a 1 (1d4+1 rounds)" for people who prefer that.

Anyway, thanks again for all this! I've made some adjustments accordingly, and I'll probably be back to make some more once I've thought over some of the fiddly stuff.

Leuku
2014-12-14, 04:02 AM
Hmn. I don't want to go much higher than 10. What if I start at 1+prof, and each time they get an archetype level they get one extra? That goes from 3-10, so a lower floor without improving the ceiling. Starts to feel a little complicated though.

Hmm. It's not easy figuring out the right progression. I've actually been trying to come up with a similar mechanic for a Fighter Subclass I'm making: Demoman, the short to mid-range Grenade specialist. Like your Techsmith, he'll have a utility belt that can fit a number of "Grenades". I'm making it so that higher level grenades and upgrades to his regular grenades consume more space on his belt. So he can increase power at the expense of number of grenades.

I'll tell you when I come up with a concrete mechanic.



Not exactly. I feel like a techsmith should be able to have alchemist's fire, tanglefoot bags, and a handful of alchemical bullets or vials of silver without having to go to a lot of silly expense. I suppose a marvel is pretty expensive too, though. IDK. My DMG just came yesterday so I'm going to take a look at the crafting rules, I may just end up scrapping this and wrapping improved, cheaper crafting into Master Alchemist.

Is that what Improvised Item does? I honestly cannot tell based on its wording. It's just a feature that lets you make a Marvel you did not have prepared quickly? That sounds fine.


It didn't occur to me that that would even come up, to be honest. It's there to combo with Emnity Bomb so you can make your tank more appealing to enemies without forcing your own guys to attack him, or let yourself run into your own noxious cloud to stab people. I suppose if you get mind-whammied that would be a thing... maybe I should make it explicit that it applies only to oils and gases?

That sounds good. It lasts 12 hours long and you get 3 uses for one Marvel, though. I might reduce it to 1 hour each; it should be a "Now is the time to use it", not a "oh, It's morning. Hey Fighter, drink this like I make you do every day."


Speaking of noxious cloud, it doesn't seem that strong to me, certainly not save-or-lose, since incapacitated is just "can't act or react." You can still run out of the cloud (in one turn, even at half speed) and you don't take any defensive penalties, and I don't think stuff like Legendary Resistance or Lair Actions are prohibited either, though that's a DM call I guess.

Wait a second: It says that the creature is incapacitated by nausea and vomiting until the start of its next turn. So when an affected creature's turn begins, they're completely OK? Thus making my criticism of it largely irrelevant? It's basically a "I can run past you without triggering an opportunity attack ability? Huh. That severely reduces its power. Additionally, by RAW, it sounds as though Lair Actions would count, since they are a type of Action.


Everybody hates on the hammer :smallfrown:

And rightfully so! You Sparks and your crazy auto-pneumatic god-killer-hammers. Maybe make it something similar to the humanoid-tossing-catapult in terms of time and cost and reduce it to STR check 30 or 25.


That's right, Light is a free infinite cantrip now. Making flames took a limited use spell resource back in 3.5, and this was just the equivalent. Guess I'll knock it down to a mundane alchemy item. But sure it's the fantasy pipe dream of alchemy! It's a fantasy game! That's what we're here for! :smallbiggrin:

Yes, it's fantasy! We've got dragons and magic! What we don't got is unlimited magic. That's why we have Spell Slots! Why not make it a Marvel that has a light last as long as the value of the component it consumes? Something like gemstones. Page 134 of the DMG. 10 GP gemstones for 8 hours of light. 50 GP gemstones for 24 hours. 100 GP gemstones for 3 days. 500 GP gemstones for a week. 1000 GP gemstones for a year. 5000 GP gemstones for 10 years. Something like that.


The roll-to-disperse is just the reverse of the roll-to-recharge that they introduced in 4e for dragon breath, etc. You see it in a few places in the 5e MM as well. I really like it because I hate tracking effects round-to-round. I could make it a parenthetical system, though, like monster damage is in 5e - ie, "Disperse on a 1 (1d4+1 rounds)" for people who prefer that.

The issue I have with that is simply that it's possible for it to last forever. Odds are it won't last forever, but it could. And a 1 in 6 change is not too bad of odds. Each time you roll the d6 it does not become more likely for it to be a 1; each roll is a new and completely different roll. So the odds stay the same no matter how many times you roll it. Maybe just give it a static number? 2 or 3 rounds?


Anyway, thanks again for all this! I've made some adjustments accordingly, and I'll probably be back to make some more once I've thought over some of the fiddly stuff.

Best of Luck!