The Gargantuan Flail

[Icewalker]

New weapon! Inspired by the Witch King's flail in the Return of the King movie.

Gargantuan Flail
http://www.imagehosting.com/out.php/i381926_GargantuanFlail.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.com)
The Gargantuan Flail is not for the weak, it is a massive weapon that can only be wielded by the strongest of the strong. It appears as a large handle, with a thick chain coming down from the end, ending in a massive sphere sometimes over a foot across. You do not want to get hit by this thing. (note the picture above is an example of a heavier and more ornately spiked Gargantuan Flail, as the Fist of the Witch King, see below)
damage: 3d6
Crit range: 20/x2
Price: (I don't know, any suggestions?)
2h Weapon...at least?
Weight: 80 lbs.
cost: 150gp?

Special: Gargantuan Flails are so massively heavy that they can only be wielded as a weapon by someone with a strength of 22 or higher.
Making a single attack with a Gargantuan Flail is a full action, unless you have the Gargantuan Control feat.


Gargantuan Control [General]
Prerequisites: Str 25
Benefits: Gargantuan Control allows you to make attacks with a Gargantuan Flail normally (1 attack as standard action, full attack as full action)
Normal: Normally you may only make 1 attack per round with the Gargantuan flail, as a full action.


I have two holes in this which I need help with, as well as comments on everything else:

How much should it cost?
What happens to the str requirements if it is magical in ways that lower the weight? Don't all magic item's traditionally have 1/2 normal weight, or is that just 1st edition?

[SpartacusThe2nd]

wow it's a cool one, useful but the only thing tat bugs me is the picture...where did you get that from (the movie?) cause it seems like some1's room.

[Icewalker]

The picture comes from some website, I'm not sure whether it was the actual workshop's website, or some fan who got pictures of it. The flail is hanging on the wall of what I assume is WETA workshop, where they made everything for the movies. Also, edited the description of the flail to be more generic, and I am going to make a magic item (Fist of the Witch King) which looks like that picture. As of now it is mainly an example of size.

[Fizban]

Oh so many things:

Automaticaly destroying someone's shield? No.
Arm breaks? You're going to have to make up your own rules for that, since there aren't any offical ones I know of.

What you should be doing:
Take a heavy flail, increase damage by two steps, make it an exotic weapon that you can only make one attack with as a full round action. Then make another feat that let's you make your normal attacks with it. This will make it comperable to the suglin, another ridiculously large weapon.

[EvilElitest]

Big. I can't say more
from,
EE

[Maldraugedhen]

Broken shield arm:

Cannot use a shield or two handed weapon. Fortitude check (DC 25) to save from passing out due to injury. After a DC 15 Heal check to make a splint, a two hander may be used, but you must make a fortitude check at DC 20 to wield a two handed weapon (without being able to wield it in one hand anyway). Magical healing or standard healing for 3 mos., Heal check DC of 20.

That just about good? Fort checks and heal check okay?

[Fizban]

Having any sort of specific body damage sets a precedent that you don't want to happen. If you really must have it, then go with: if the shield is destroyed, the target takes damage as if the weapon had struck them, and the arm wielding the shield is broken. A broken arm cannot be used for anything except to hold one 5lb or less item until the creature recieves a regenerate spell.

The fact is, in DnD, unless the attacker specifically targets the shield, it takes no damage at all. If one was to use a tower shield for full cover, and the DM uses the "striking cover" option, then the shield could take damage, but normal use does not. Therefore, the whole break shield/arm is going against the combat abstraction that DnD requires to work well.

I maintain that it should just be a heavy flail with lots of damage (though the one in the movie wansn't all that mega-huge anyway).

[Icewalker]

It was over a foot across in the head, and I added in the shieldsmashing because thats what it does in the movie. I'm thinking I'll remove it and make it a power of the Fist of the Witch King magic item. I think it breaks any shield except tower shields, and it should definitely have some chance of hitting the shield when the attack roll doesn't hit, because they block with it, you know? I dunno how aiming for a shield would work, but I like your description of the arm breaking and damage/regeneration, as well as Maldraugedhen's 3mon/heal DC 20 for natural healing. Dunno bout using a two-handed wep with a splint though.

@Maldraugedhen, you can't really make a fort save/passing out, because the idea of passing out from pain is exactly what subdual damage is. Maybe if it breaks the shield it deals its 2d8 subdual damage.

[Innis Cabal]

subdual damage is being knocked unconcious...not do to pain...its just getting punched in the head alot without actually having lethal force. On the weapon.....give it to the dragoon

[ArmorArmadillo]

No offense, but why all the hubbaballoo?
It seems most appropriate just to use a large Heavy Flail.

[Vaynor]

I have four main holes in this which I need help with, as well as comments on everything else:
How much should it cost?
What happens when it hits a magical shield?
Can you aim for their shield?
What happens to the str requirements if it is magical in ways that lower the weight? Don't all magic item's traditionally have 1/2 normal weight, or is that just 1st edition?

-At least 100-300 gold.
-Bonus on sunder
-Sunder attempt
-I think that's just first edition. You can make it mithral to half the weight, I believe, and the strength would probably have to be around 18-20.

[Icewalker]

Ah, ty for answering my questions Vaynor.

Huh, I was about to post how Innis Cabal was nor fully correct, that subdual damage also involved pain, but after looking at the definition in the PHB and torture devices in the Book of Vile Darkness turns out I have been confused about subdual damage. So I guess the shield smashing would do normal damage. Doesn't really matter yet, I haven't made the Fist of the Witch King yet. Though I need to modify the original post...

[woc33]

You could make the shield shattering ability a magic weapon special ability, equal a +1 or +2 bonus.

[Maerok]

I love that flail. It's the only one I'd use :smallbiggrin:. But those 'loops' at either end of the chain don't look too sturdy (for a real one; this one is probably foam). I wish they would use actual objects for movies :smallamused:. "That's fake, righ- SMASH!!!"

[Icewalker]

Yeah, that'd be fun. Cept then actors would keep dying, and that'd probably cause problems, you know?

I'm moving the shield smashing ability into a power of a specific item, you know, one of those items with powers that aren't on the standard powers list. I'm gonna make Fist of the Witch King, along the lines of +4 shield smashy evil gargantuan flail with some other powers, not really positive yet.

[Demented]

Yeah, that'd be fun. Cept then actors would keep dying, and that'd probably cause problems, you know?

More likely, the guy playing the Witch King would pull a muscle.
"Oh, ye gods! Why can't they make these things out of foam?"

[Icewalker]

I dunno about that, he was a massive guy, a simoan. He played the Witch King and the pink creepy lookin orc commander dude.

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

I love that flail. It's the only one I'd use :smallbiggrin:. But those 'loops' at either end of the chain don't look too sturdy (for a real one; this one is probably foam). I wish they would use actual objects for movies :smallamused:. "That's fake, righ- SMASH!!!"

Actually, it was a real one in the movie, except when it actually hit's eowyn's arm, she's just a dummy. And it was so heavy in real life, they had to have a guy underneath to push it up, cause the actor couldn't hold it.

i would say around, oh, 50 lbs?

[Icewalker]

Right...Eowyn dummy....massive metal pointy object swinging around...

(actually, the LOTR appendices are really really interesting. theres some funny stuff. The guy who plays Gimli was missing part of his finger, so he had a prosthetic one, and thy put a drop of blood between them and he went and showed Peter, saying there had been an accident, and pushed it like halfway off and blood came out and Peter Jackson freaked out, and other funny stories)