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SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-05, 03:33 PM
One thing that has bugged me is how mundane the fantasy worlds are of D&D outside of anything that is magical. By this I mean that the world and some classes are not fantasy, they just happen to have monsters and wizards running around.

A game should not play such favorites toward one group. Not only does it make for lazy game design but narratively it makes no sense.

So this is my attempt to expand on the last part of 5e and allow everyone sitting at the table to be playing a fantasy character instead of just playing in a fantasy setting.


Overview

In 5e, a skill contest is where two participants roll ability checks and apply all appropriate modifiers to see if something changes (as the attacker wants) or stays the same (as the defender wants).

For these following abilities you can use the rules found in chapter chapter 7 of the PHB to supplement anything I miss or don't cover.

For the purpose of these abilities a tie results in both contestants rolling a d20, whoever with the higher roll wins. This represents everything from luck to insight when two equally train and equally matched individuals go toe to toe in a contest.

Each skill contest can be used as an action or bonus action. Using the skill contest as a bonus action changes the results of the contest slightly.

You may know a number of Skill Contests equal to [ 2 * Proficiency Bonus] and you may relearn a skill contest during a long rest. You may learn a skill contest of any skill that you have proficiency in.

Once you gain Extra Attack (or multiple extra attacks) you may replace one attack per round with you a skill contest that you know.

So a Fighter 20 may with the attack action may attack 3 times and use a skill contest in a single turn.

Using action surge the Fighter would be able use another skill contest and attack 3 more times.

Special: Full Casters don't have the time to learn these due to dealing with their spells, praying, research, or practice.

Partial casters: May learn 1/2 Prof. Bonus skill contests. They include this in the martial side of their training.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-05, 03:34 PM
Improvised Shove: As an action you may use any object (including weapon) to make a Athelics versus Athletics or Acrobatics contest to shove a creature within 50' of you. You may use this as a bonus action to use the shove action to push the target.
Note: Just swinging a sword, throwing a weapon, or plucking an instrument can work for this.

Earth Slash: As an action you punch, stomp, or hit the ground sending a shockwave toward an a creature or object touching the ground within 20'. Make an Athletics versus Athletics or Acrobatics contest. If you succeed then the target takes 1d6 bludgeoning damage and is pushed 10' (pushed targets must be large or smaller). Although the path may have remnents of the shock way (such as broken tiles or pushed up dirt) the ground is not difficult terrain. Unattended objects automatically fail the contest.




Safe Passage: As an action you may make a Acrobatics versus Arcana or Religion check in order to move through a magical effect without being harmed. If the creator is not in the vacinity then you use Acrobatics versus the Spell DC.

If you win the contest you may move through spaces that have magical effects impeding you if your level is not lower than the caster's level or CR without having the magic effect your mind or body. With this ability you can walk through a wall of fire with no damage, slip through a wall of force, or move through magically created difficult terrain at normal speed. You must be aware of the specific magical effect before starting this action. (Note: this is based off an epic skill use from 3.5, may need some work but is very in line with a rogue's ability).





Steal Anything: As an action you may steal a weapon, backpack, piece of armor (helmet, arm, leg, or body piece), pants, or any other item that you can see from a target by making a Sleight of Hand verus Athletics or Acrobatics contest. The target gains advantage or you attempt to steal something not readily able to be taken such as the body piece of armor (chainshirt), equipped shield, or two handed weapon (great sword). If the target is unaware of you then they take disadvantage for the contest.

Steal Intangibles: You can reach into an item and pull out the magic essence. As an action you make a Sleight of Hand versus Arcana or Religion of the magic item creator's (if not present use passive score or special DC if higher). On a success you pull the magic from an item. Depending on the item determines what happens.

Charge Item: One charge is lost.
Permanent Item: Magic is suppressed for 1d4 rounds.
Permanent Item (attune needed): Magic is suppressed for 1 round.

Lich Phylactery: You pull out the soul of the lich and hold it in your hands. If you can damage incorporeal beings you may kill the soul.




Lightning Dash: As part of a Dash action when you are hidden, you make a Stealth versus Perception or Investigation contest against any number of creatures. If you win the contest you move so fast that you are essentially a tiny blur to them and are considered invisible during your Dash movement against all who failed their contest. If you stop during your dash to perform another action (or bonus action) this benefit ends.










Befuddling Fact: You pull up a random piece of historical information that hurts the target's head due to how random or stupid the piece of information may be. Make a History versus History or Insight contest. If you succeed then the target has disadvantage on its next attack roll.

Example: Chicago was once nearly level with Lake Michgan and couldn't drain so the people of Chicago jacked up pretty much the entire city... Sounds stupid but... http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/politics/chi-chicagodays-raisingstreets-story-story.html




Measuring the Enemy: As an action you perform a Investigation versus Deception contest to learn the CR, Level, HP, and Skill Proficiencies of the target. If you use a bonus action then you may learn one of the qualities listed for each bonus action.


Nature

Religion

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-05, 03:36 PM
Animal Handling, Literally:
When you attempt to grapple beasts, monstrosities, or dragons you may use Animal Handling versus Athletics or Acrobatics.



Know Thy Enemy: As an action you study your enemy and you make a Insight versus Deception or Performance contest to learn all weapon and elemental resistances and weaknesses of the target. If you use a bonus action then you may learn one of the qualities listed for each bonus action.


Purification Acupuncture: As an action you may hit a creature with an unarmed strike (with you hand, a kick, or a headbutt) or piercing weapon and readjust their ki/nervous system as a Medicine check versus DC 10 or effect DC.

When you do this you remove two of the following conditions: Charm, Blind, Deafness, Reduce Movement (not due to difficult terrain), poison, or inability to recover HP.

Using this as a bonus action removes one of the effects listed.

Stigma Acupuncture: As an action you may hit a creature with an unarmed strike (with you hand, a kick, or a headbutt) or piercing weapon and readjust their ki/nervous system as a Medicine versus Acrobatics or Medicine contest.

On a success the target has one of the following conditions placed on them for 1 round. Blind, Deafness, or inability to recover HP.








Survival

Deception

Provoke: You cause an enemy to realize you are the biggest threat to them. Make an Intimidation versus Insight contest against a creature within 30'. If you succeed then they must attack you, to the best if their ability on their next turn. They may choose not to attack anyone if they wish to perform another action.

This will go under persuasion and deception also. Slight modifications hopefully.



Distracting Performance: By faking a crazy attack you give your allies an opening to safely move out of the reach of the target creature. As an action make a Performance versus Insight contest with a weapon (monks may use unarmed strikes), if you succeed then your allies don't provoke an OA from the target the first time they move out of the target's reach until the start of your next turn.

Performance: Awkward Moment: You cause a misstep in your enemies movement by performing an awkward moment. This can be something you said (bad phrasing) or something you did (picking your nose). Make a Performance versus Insight contest. If you succeed then the target's speed is reduced by 10' until the start of your next turn.




Words of Beauty: As an action you make a Persuasion versus Insight or Persuasion contest, if you succeed then you have advantage on all charisma checks against the target for 1 minute. You may use this as a bonus action but the advantage is only for 1 round if successful.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-05, 03:37 PM
Alternative Attack and Defense Rules

Might change some things up (defenses) so that noncasters can target specific defenses like a caster can.

Heavy/One Handed Weapons: Athletics versus Acrobatics or Athletics

Light Weapons: Acrobatics versus Athletics or Acrobatics

Crossbows: Perception or Investigation versus Athletics or Acrobatics.

Longbows: Str (Acrobatics) versus Athletics or Acrobatics

Short Bows: Acrobatics versus Athletics or Acrobatics

Disadvantage and advantage works as normal but you only gain them if they would normally apply to an attack roll.

For consistency I'll give spells a contest too.
+++

Armor in this system gives temp HP equal to armor bonus - 10 (or some other number, I'll revisit this when I get the chance).

Shields give +4 Temp HP.

You must take 1 minute to restore your armor to fighting form to refresh your temp HP. Shields take 1 action to regain the temp HP (remember the warlock gains at will false life so this isn't as powerful as it seems).

You must be proficient with the armor or shield to gain the temp HP.

bloodshed343
2014-12-05, 04:35 PM
My flail master feat fits into this.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?386909-5e-Flail-Master-Shock-Trooper-feat

Also: Polearm Gambit: reaction, when an ally within reach would be affected by a spell that requires an attack roll or dexterity save. Make an athletics check versus the spell dc of the caster. On a success, you slide the ally to within 5 feet of you and the spell has no effect.

Knight's Move: move action. Make an investigate check opposed by an enemy's bluff check. On a success, you or one ally may move immediately up to half speed without provoking attacks of opportunity from that enemy.

Ziegander
2014-12-05, 05:36 PM
My flail master feat fits into this.
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?386909-5e-Flail-Master-Shock-Trooper-feat

Not really, and you should probably not just link to your homebrew every time you post in someone else's thread.


Also: Polearm Gambit: reaction, when an ally within reach would be affected by a spell that requires an attack roll or dexterity save. Make an athletics check versus the spell dc of the caster. On a success, you slide the ally to within 5 feet of you and the spell has no effect.

Knight's Move: move action. Make an investigate check opposed by an enemy's bluff check. On a success, you or one ally may move immediately up to half speed without provoking attacks of opportunity from that enemy.

Polearm Gambit has nothing to do with the OP's goals and could stand to be a "stunt" anyone could get to try, regardless of weapon type, with the proper training. Also, I have no idea why it's limited to protected nearby allies from only spells. Really, this makes no sense.

Why is a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check vs an enemy's Charisma (Bluff) allowing you to move without provoking attacks of opportunity? Why would it possibly allow an ally to take an immediate, half-move on your turn? Also, there is no such thing as a move action in 5e.

bloodshed343
2014-12-05, 05:59 PM
Not really, and you should probably not just link to your homebrew every time you post in someone else's thread.



Polearm Gambit has nothing to do with the OP's goals and could stand to be a "stunt" anyone could get to try, regardless of weapon type, with the proper training. Also, I have no idea why it's limited to protected nearby allies from only spells. Really, this makes no sense.

Why is a successful Intelligence (Investigation) check vs an enemy's Charisma (Bluff) allowing you to move without provoking attacks of opportunity? Why would it possibly allow an ally to take an immediate, half-move on your turn? Also, there is no such thing as a move action in 5e.

This spawned from another series of feats involving thrown weapons. I was saying the skill contest portion of the flail master feat could be converted to a general skill challenge. I didn't feel like retyping it, so I just linked it.

Also, the polearm gambit only works with spells because saving ally's from any attack at-will is too powerful. It only works with polearms because the idea is that the area near you, that you pull them into, is safe, while the area they're standing isn't. It's also limited to polearms so that weapon choice is a meaningful part of your build.

Knight's Move is reading an enemy’s stance and actions for openings. Maybe you notice the bear is blind in one eye. Maybe you notice the hobgoblin favors his left foot. Either way, you either take advantage of it or instruct an ally to take advantage of it.

A lot of your argument sounds like you're grasping at straws because you either don't like me personally, which is a you problem, not a me problem, or because you don't want non-casters to have nice things. Which is a you problem, not a me problem.

CrusaderJoe
2014-12-05, 11:42 PM
One thing that has bugged me is how mundane the fantasy worlds are of D&D outside of anything that is magical. By this I mean that the world and some classes are not fantasy, they just happen to have monsters and wizards running around.

A game should not play such favorites toward one group. Not only does it make for lazy game design but narratively it makes no sense.

So this is my attempt to expand on the last part of 5e and allow everyone sitting at the table to be playing a fantasy character instead of just playing in a fantasy setting.


Overview

In 5e, a skill contest is where two participants roll ability checks and apply all appropriate modifiers to see if something changes (as the attacker wants) or stays the same (as the defender wants).

For these following abilities you can use the rules found in chapter chapter 7 of the PHB to supplement anything I miss or don't cover.

For the purpose of these abilities a tie results in both contestants rolling a d20, whoever with the higher roll wins. This represents everything from luck to insight when two equally train and equally matched individuals go toe to toe in a contest.

Each skill contest can be used as an action or bonus action. Using the skill contest as a bonus action changes the results of the contest slightly.

You may know a number of Skill Contests equal to [ 2 * Proficiency Bonus] and you may relearn a skill contest during a long rest. You may learn a skill contest of any skill that you have proficiency in.

Expertise: [ Will do something with this...]

Passive Checks: [Will do something... Advantage or hidden maybe you go up against passive DC?]

I'm setting up my own project, loosely based on Final Fantasy Tactics/Final Fantasy/D&D and I would love to use this system in it.

I'll be using an entirely different ability score system but what you got so far looks like it will be fun in a fantasy system.

:)

Amnoriath
2014-12-07, 07:40 PM
A lot of your argument sounds like you're grasping at straws because you either don't like me personally, which is a you problem, not a me problem, or because you don't want non-casters to have nice things. Which is a you problem, not a me problem.
Zeigander has spent most of his threads devoted to making Fighter/non caster fixes, so this is a personal judgment based upon him criticizing situational measures that probably required affliction to begin with to be made at will as if skill check created it not because it was there to begin with. So, please use better conduct especially when he only responded once. Besides it is a little shameless to link your stuff right away without making a case of relevance and first talking about the creator's to begin with.

CrusaderJoe
2014-12-08, 08:01 AM
Zeigander has spent most of his threads devoted to making Fighter/non caster fixes, so this is a personal judgment based upon him criticizing situational measures that probably required affliction to begin with to be made at will as if skill check created it not because it was there to begin with. So, please use better conduct especially when he only responded once. Besides it is a little shameless to link your stuff right away without making a case of relevance and first talking about the creator's to begin with.

Wow a old saying about a pot and kettle comes to mind.

Anyways...

Performance: Awkward Moment: You cause a misstep in your enemies movement by performing an awkward moment. This can be something you said (bad phrasing) or something you did (picking your nose). Make a Performance versus Insight contest. If you succeed then the target's speed is reduced by 10' until the start of your next turn.

Ziegander
2014-12-08, 02:50 PM
This spawned from another series of feats involving thrown weapons. I was saying the skill contest portion of the flail master feat could be converted to a general skill challenge. I didn't feel like retyping it, so I just linked it.

I've noticed you link to your work in a handful of other threads and create a new thread of your own to link to your own work. I'm just letting you know that some people can find that obnoxious and in the end it can be detrimental toward trying to have your work evaluated. If people aren't commenting in your original thread, either you have a perfect idea that merits no further discussion, or people aren't interested.


Also, the polearm gambit only works with spells because saving ally's from any attack at-will is too powerful. It only works with polearms because the idea is that the area near you, that you pull them into, is safe, while the area they're standing isn't. It's also limited to polearms so that weapon choice is a meaningful part of your build.

None of those are thematic, immersive design decisions, instead they are the worst sort of gamist design decisions, you designed a power to work the way you want it to strictly because of game mechanics ignoring the concept of the power altogether. You may as well have called it Polearm Gambit and made the power grant you +1 to AC as a passive benefit and grant a 80/120ft ranged fire damage attack with your polearm because polearm wielders can't use shields so they need the AC boost and they need a ranged attack option because melee. And if you don't understand how that parallels to your own argument, then you should probably sit back and think about game design for a while before trying again.

If you can snag an ally with a polearm from 10ft away from you to save him from a spell attack, why couldn't you do the same thing, easier even, with your bare hands to save an adjacent ally from a spell attack? Or AoE effect? An exploding barrel perhaps, that's not a spell? Why not even a melee attack? Would it really be that broken to give someone a reaction-cost ability that moved a willing ally within your reach a distance up to your reach? It sure would be awesome, I know that. But your design doesn't even bother to consider any of this.


Knight's Move is reading an enemy’s stance and actions for openings. Maybe you notice the bear is blind in one eye. Maybe you notice the hobgoblin favors his left foot. Either way, you either take advantage of it or instruct an ally to take advantage of it.

That makes sense, but it still doesn't address how move actions in 5e don't exist, or why your instructions should allow an ally to move immediately outside of their own turn. Your advice is somehow making your ally faster than humanoidly possible? That doesn't make sense.


A lot of your argument sounds like you're grasping at straws because you either don't like me personally, which is a you problem, not a me problem, or because you don't want non-casters to have nice things. Which is a you problem, not a me problem.

I'm definitely not grasping at straws. Your powers are not what the OP is looking for, they don't make sense, and they are poor design. I'm trying to point this out to you so you can become a better designer. Your 5e Swordmage is a promising effort with some great ideas. But you don't need to link to it (or your other projects) in half the threads you post in. If you think I don't want non-casters to have Nice ThingsTM you haven't been paying attention.

bloodshed343
2014-12-08, 05:10 PM
So, to be clear, I never suggested that an ability similar to polearm gambit available to anyone with a free hand shouldn't exist, only that the improved 10 foot version be polearm specific, and be called polearm gambit. I mussed up the wording on the spell, but it was intended for area-effect spells. Specifically, I wanted it to work with dragon breath. Which isn't actually a spell. It should allow you to save the ally from any attack or effect that requires a dexterity save, provided that you aren't also in the area of effect.

Also, I don't see the problem with granting allies out-of-turn movement. This is probably due to playing 4e, where such a thing was common. Knight's Move is a very powerful utility. It seems like the sort of Nice Things that a non-caster should be able to do. If granting movement is too much for your suspension of disbelief, then it could be a bonus action which let's you or one ally disengage and move as part of the same action on your respective turns.

And, to be fair, I wasn't spamming my homebrew as badly as you claim. I made one thread in the 5E section (which I remade once after it vanished) to ask some of the people who know 5e for help. This was because the homebrew section seemed overwhelmingly populated with pathfinder homebrew.

SpawnOfMorbo
2014-12-08, 11:54 PM
Wow a old saying about a pot and kettle comes to mind.

Anyways...

Performance: Awkward Moment: You cause a misstep in your enemies movement by performing an awkward moment. This can be something you said (bad phrasing) or something you did (picking your nose). Make a Performance versus Insight contest. If you succeed then the target's speed is reduced by 10' until the start of your next turn.


Love it, totally reminds me of funny bot from south park...

Speaking of which, there needs to be a race of daleks in D&D... Maybe a mindflayer spawn type cyborg thingie...

CrusaderJoe
2014-12-10, 01:02 PM
Love it, totally reminds me of funny bot from south park...

Speaking of which, there needs to be a race of daleks in D&D... Maybe a mindflayer spawn type cyborg thingie...

I had a DM run a Dalek during a one shot, I'll send it over to you if I can find it.

I used improvised shove last night during a game, tons of fun and I may have a group to play tests these abilities.