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Meat Shield
2007-03-28, 07:22 AM
I just got Complete Scoundrel the other day and was looking it over for things to add to my campaign. I like the Spellwarp Sniper, but had a question on the prereqs: why is +1d6 sneak attack required to get it, and would it be terrible to ignore that requirement?

The player I was thinking of has a warmage, and this class would fit perfectly for him.

Person_Man
2007-03-28, 09:07 AM
Spellwarp Sniper is a potent PrC. Forcing the player to take 1 level of Rogue or whatever is a good way to balance its power.

Also, Warmage? If you really want to help your player, let him rebuild as a Wizard or even a Sorcerer.

Meat Shield
2007-03-28, 10:07 AM
Well, the whole point is that he is not going for an optimal build anyway, hence the warmage. The point is that the PrC fits his character well, and flavor wise, if anyone should be able to snipe with spells, it should be someone with military training like a warmage.

BTW, don't worry about Level 20 builds and it being broken. He is 4th level now, and the campaign will be over by the time everyone hits 10th level I am thinking.

Ikkitosen
2007-03-28, 10:08 AM
Drop the pre-req for that character only - a warmage will not give you balance problems even with such a boost. Just don't allow any tweaked PC such latitude!

Fax Celestis
2007-03-28, 10:24 AM
You could drop a feat on Martial Stance and pick up Assassin's Stance for +2d6 sneak attack.

Person_Man
2007-03-28, 10:43 AM
You could drop a feat on Martial Stance and pick up Assassin's Stance for +2d6 sneak attack.

Good idea. But doesn't Assassin's Stance have a prerequisite of one Shadow Hand Maneuver? So you'd have to pick up Martial Study first? I'm not sure, I don't have my ToB in front of me.

But if so, I'm not sure spending 2 feats to gain Sneak Attack would be worth it for a Spell Sniper build, when you could use those two feats for metamagic.

Fax Celestis
2007-03-28, 11:04 AM
Good idea. But doesn't Assassin's Stance have a prerequisite of one Shadow Hand Maneuver? So you'd have to pick up Martial Study first? I'm not sure, I don't have my ToB in front of me.

But if so, I'm not sure spending 2 feats to gain Sneak Attack would be worth it for a Spell Sniper build, when you could use those two feats for metamagic.

Martial Stance has a Martial Study prereq anyway, so it's a wash.

ShneekeyTheLost
2007-03-28, 11:13 AM
Or just dip two levels of Rogue and not only pick up your 1d6 SA you need, but Evasion as well to help defend against return fire. This could also give you some interesting skillsets as well (bluff, sense motive, and intimidate can all be handy for a Warmage. UMD might be worth picking up a few ranks just to be able to use CLW wands for emergency healing).

Person_Man
2007-03-28, 11:35 AM
Or just dip two levels of Rogue and not only pick up your 1d6 SA you need, but Evasion as well to help defend against return fire. This could also give you some interesting skillsets as well (bluff, sense motive, and intimidate can all be handy for a Warmage. UMD might be worth picking up a few ranks just to be able to use CLW wands for emergency healing).

I'd say that buying a Ring of Evasion would be a better idea then spending a 2nd level or Rogue to get it.

marjan
2007-03-28, 11:48 AM
I'd say that buying a Ring of Evasion would be a better idea then spending a 2nd level or Rogue to get it.

Depending on the money available and free slots for the rings.

Meat Shield
2007-03-28, 11:51 AM
I think I'll let him do it if he wants, but I still have the original question: why is the sneak attack prereq there? The class gives sneak attack progression but could easily have made that a new benefit to the class, not an extension of a pre-existing ability.

Fax Celestis
2007-03-28, 11:59 AM
Because sneak attack is a scoundrel thing to do, and it's in the Complete Scoundrel.

Ikkitosen
2007-03-28, 06:40 PM
I think I'll let him do it if he wants, but I still have the original question: why is the sneak attack prereq there? The class gives sneak attack progression but could easily have made that a new benefit to the class, not an extension of a pre-existing ability.

It's a way to make the caster give something up (namely a caster level) in exchange for what sound like a slew of special abilities and a full caster progression PrC. Notice that the most oft-quoted "broken" PrCs have full caster progression without any necessary prior loss of CL.

ImperiousLeader
2007-03-28, 06:46 PM
Spellthief is preferable to Rogue for a lot of Spellwarp Sniper builds, if you have room for "Master Spellthief", a feat from the same book. A Spellthief 2 / Sorcerer 6 / Spellwarp Sniper 5 .... is a fairly potent build.


I just got Complete Scoundrel the other day and was looking it over for things to add to my campaign. I like the Spellwarp Sniper, but had a question on the prereqs: why is +1d6 sneak attack required to get it, and would it be terrible to ignore that requirement?

If you were to do that, I'd recommend making the Spellwarp Sniper a 4/5 Caster class, IOW, it wouldn't grant a caster level boost at first level.

EvilElitest
2007-03-28, 07:07 PM
I've never played them, what is wrong with a warmage?
from,
EE

Dark_Wind
2007-03-28, 08:28 PM
I've never played them, what is wrong with a warmage?
from,
EE

They are incredibly one dimensional. Warmages are good at blasting and only blasting, which makes them less powerful than other arcanists by quite a bit. When it comes to spellcasting, versatility is the name of the game, and Warmages don't have that. Even with Advanced Learning, they can only get a few utility spells.

Ramza00
2007-03-28, 08:37 PM
80% of the Warmage spells reare damage spells, the other 20% are battlefield related. Yet you never get any real buffs such as fly, haste, invisibility, etc you would expect for a "battlefield mage." Furthermore damage spells are suboptimial almost always for an arcanist to cast. The only real advantage it has over a sorcerer is it can cast in armor (mage armor), it has a large selection of damage spells (sorcerer can pick smart damage spells and if necessary use energy substitution via feat or rods which are very cheap), and it gets an "edge ability" which at lvl 20 will cause your spells at max to do 12 more damage (though if done smartly and high point buy you can get an extra 3 or 4 damage per spell at lvl 1).

EvilElitest
2007-03-28, 10:11 PM
So warmages are literlly walking artillery? Sounds like the CW samerai
from,
EE

ImperiousLeader
2007-03-28, 11:46 PM
Pretty much. Warmages suck. If you really want to be a Direct Damage Mage, a Sorceror can do the job just as well and have a lot more versatility. The king of Direct Damage is probably the Artificer, though. See the Eberron Abuse thread for more on that.

Bears With Lasers
2007-03-29, 12:38 AM
The king of insert thing here is probably the Artificer.

Artificers: doing anything other casters can do, two levels earlier.