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View Full Version : I need help with *swarm* question

Tobrian
2007-03-29, 05:08 AM
Hello,

I like using swarms and mobs as a DM, but so far I've always used premade sample swarms from published sources and internet forums.

Now I want to create my own swarm, but I don't understand how you actually determine the hit dice and CR for a swarm or mob?

I've combed through the RAW text for swarms and mobs several times, from several sourcebooks (MM for swarms, DMG2 and Cityscape for mobs), but all I see is the small table that correlates swarm hit dice with swarm damage... but that only means you need to know the hit dice first. Some sample swarms have 10 HD, some 5, it doesnt seem to be conneted to the base creature at all, which is usually tiny or diminutive anyway. Same goes for mobs. Do you simply pick a number for HD and write down the corresponding damage? That doesn't make sense, because why would two swarms of same volume and made up of the same creatures have different HD total? :smallconfused:

And how do you calculate CR? The CR for mobs in the Cityscape book does not seem to be related to the mob HD total HD at all.

What am I missing?
Help is appreciated.
(If someone already has stats for a Stirge Swarm or can give me a link to where one is posted, doubly so.)

ravenkith
2007-03-29, 11:03 AM
DMG II has those rules, I think, IIRC.

Don't know em myself...

Tobrian
2007-03-29, 11:18 AM
Yeah, I already read the swarm rules, like, a dozen times. That's not what I mean.

Jasdoif
2007-03-29, 06:21 PM
Do you simply pick a number for HD and write down the corresponding damage? That doesn't make sense, because why would two swarms of same volume and made up of the same creatures have different HD total? :smallconfused: That does appear to be the case. Perhaps some swarms are more or less dense then others? I dunno.

And how do you calculate CR? The CR for mobs in the Cityscape book does not seem to be related to the mob HD total HD at all.Afraid I don't have Cityscape. But looking at the SRD's swarms, it appears the general rule is that CR is equal to half of the HD. The exceptions are the bat swarm (odd HD rounded up, perhaps because of the usefulness of wounding and blindsense), centipede swarm (odd HD rounded down), and hellwasp swarm (CR two higher, but with inhabitation, hive mind and fire resistance I can see the higher CR for special abilities).

What am I missing?
Help is appreciated.
(If someone already has stats for a Stirge Swarm or can give me a link to where one is posted, doubly so.)Since a stirge relies on grappling for its attacks, something a swarm isn't allowed to do, it's not particularly well-suited for being made into a swarm.

If you have DMGII, there are rules for mobs in there, which covers clusters of larger creatures. You could try to adapt some of that as a basis for a swarm-like cluster of stirges, including the ability to break out some individuals to use attach and blood drain.