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Falrin
2007-03-29, 10:13 AM
I have this major, horse-back army running around in my world, but now I'm in need of some decent tactics. Of course hit&run will be the basics, but other mall ideas are welcome.

One of these specific ideas I've come up with is the use of lasso's & nets. I'll have them ride by, throw a lasso attacht to the back of their saddle and drag them away from the formation. While dragging them other horsemen will poke them with lances & keep firing arrows.

But what about the dragging itself? I presume it will do some damage, but several things have to be taken into account.

- The terrain. From soft sand to rocks and all in between.
- How to unleash yourself? What DC/AC to kut the rope while being dragged?
- Normal & Natural Armour changes a lot. No damage? Acts as DR worthe their AC?

So the question is: How to work out dragging someone across the plains tied to the back of your horse mechanic-wise.

Lapak
2007-03-29, 10:17 AM
If you want to be cruel, you should also work up damage for being lassoed by two different riders and having them take off in opposite directions.

JackMage666
2007-03-29, 10:20 AM
I'd say, 1d6 at plain, normal ground, and an additional 1d6 for every step above it. And that's for a 30 ft-50 ft move, any less, no damage (unless the terrain is severely harmful).

This is mostly a judgement call at the time, I think.

Zeta Kai
2007-03-29, 10:21 AM
I'd treat it as falling damage, dealt out every 30-50' feet, but only if dragged at a minimum speed (your base speed x5?). Perhaps increasing damage by a multiple of 2 if dragged at twice this speed.

Overall, it sounds like this could be a good homebrew rule.

EDIT: Simu-ninja'd by JackMage666.

JackMage666
2007-03-29, 10:29 AM
As for the opposite pulling.. 2d6 per mount+Combined Str Modifiers of the two (or more) mounts. Strong enough to kill a weaker creature, but a strogner one is hurt by it, but can survive. Also, if they survive, the rope either breaks, or the two (or more) mounts are jerked back and fall prone (and, both mount and rider take 1d6 damage from the jerk and fall). Possibly, you get a Str check versus the combined Str check of the mounts in order to knock them prone, and if you fail, the rope breaks, leaving them unharmed.

NotCC
2007-03-29, 10:35 AM
If you treat it as falling damage do Monks/Rogues take less damage?

I believe that there are rules for cutting/ripping out of a net in Complete Warrior. I would use those and give it a +2 modifier for being dragged.

When it comes to armor I think of it like falling off a motorcycle. If your weaing no armor your going to take alot more damage, but even if you are wearing armor your still going to take blunt damage with the benifit that you get to keep your skin. In that regard I think that with no armor you take full damage, light armor is 3/4, medium 1/2, and heavy 1/4.

Zeta Kai
2007-03-29, 10:42 AM
Yeah, if you treat it as falling damage, it'd be fairly easy to adjudicate. And yes, I believe of all classes, Monks & Rogue would handle dragging the best.

JackMage666
2007-03-29, 10:48 AM
Maybe allow a Tumble Check (DC=1/2 Speed+Str) for half or negate damage?

Gamebird
2007-03-29, 10:49 AM
If the terrain is so difficult that it's doing "extra" damage, then it's probably also too difficult to ride over. I'd go with a d6 per 60 feet dragged if you wanted to be simple.

For more "realistic", have the ground make an attack roll against the PC with a +5 modifier. One roll per 30' dragged, for d6 damage, x2 crit. If a PC has good armor, then they stand a good chance of being "missed", meaning their armor absorbed the damage. If they have a low AC, then they're going to be hit all the time. Note they can be critically hit.

Falrin
2007-03-29, 10:55 AM
On a related note: I don't want it to be too deadly.

A light warhorse get 60 Ft Speeds.

A medium load falls between 231-460 pounds.

They have the run feat.

We'll assume they'll be in the Medium Load section when carrying a rider and dragging a man. This gets them to 40 ft speed, or 200 Ft/ round with the run feat. 1d6/50 ft would result in 4d6/round. A bit high for my taste.

On the other hand speed should be an issue, but I'd lower the damage a lot.

JackMage666
2007-03-29, 11:34 AM
You could allow a DC 13 Reflex save after the first round, to stop the dragging.

Fax Celestis
2007-03-29, 11:42 AM
For more "realistic", have the ground make an attack roll against the PC with a +5 modifier. One roll per 30' dragged, for d6 damage, x2 crit. If a PC has good armor, then they stand a good chance of being "missed", meaning their armor absorbed the damage. If they have a low AC, then they're going to be hit all the time. Note they can be critically hit.

The mental image of such a critical hit pains me in my nether regions.

Gamebird
2007-03-29, 12:18 PM
On a related note: I don't want it to be too deadly.
...
On the other hand speed should be an issue, but I'd lower the damage a lot.

Then just increase the distance needed for each check. How much damage do you want a round from dragging? 2d6 will kill most people in one round. How long do people normally survive being drug behind a horse? I'd say for 2-4 rounds. So maybe make one "attack roll" by the ground against them each round. With a +5 to hit, you'll hit about 50% of the time (I'm imagining these foes as being lightly armored and with a small DEX adjustment or shield).

A 50% chance of taking a d6 each round shouldn't be a big deal by itself. It's getting poked with lances while you can't use your DEX bonus or fight back that's a problem.

Subotei
2007-03-29, 05:07 PM
How much damage do you want a round from dragging? 2d6 will kill most people in one round. How long do people normally survive being drug behind a horse? I'd say for 2-4 rounds.

Yeah - There was a discussion about lassoing and dragging damage ages ago - can't find the thread unfortunately - and the same point was made; it can get very fatal very quickly. What I did in my game (I think) was to use a sixth of falling damage (ie 1D6 per 60ft dragged) as subdual damage each round unless a fortitude save is failed, in which case apply full damage. Good idea to modify for armour though - I guess I'm harsh.:smallwink:

I applied a mod to the fort save for terrain. The idea was this tactic was used for capturing people, which the subdual does nicely.

Falrin
2007-03-29, 06:11 PM
I like:

The FS idea for subdual damage.

The ground attacking the player. I'd say they lose dex so unarmoured get more rocks in their face.



Maybe we could scale damage dice with speed?

Distance / 20 Ft = Die rounded down.

20 = 1
40 = d2
30 = d3
...

Also the FS could scale. Maybe: 15 + Damage? Or should I take 10? half or subdual?