LGBTAI+ 54: A Full Deck

[Togath]

Welcome to the 54th iteration of the LGBTAI thread!

Notice: This is mostly a support thread. There is an LGBTAI+ Q&A Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?356522-LGBTAI-Questions-Information-and-Discussion-thread!) right here.

The AI is for All-Inclusive because we have only so much space in the title, but everyone, regardless of orientation, direction, letter, acronym or chosen astrological symbol is welcome here!

We do, unfortunately, have a few rules. We are not an anarchist state! Or, we weren't until we voted we were? But shush.

1. We are primarily a support thread.
This means that the primary focus should be in helping people here feel better; about themselves, about their lives, about their problems. We are also an education thread, but when helping someone learn involves not supporting, we will default to support - Mostly. We are only mostly human, after all.

All of the other rules are basically precisions of rule #1.

2. If you want answers to triggering topics, spoiler-box or ask them privately.
Triggering topics are those which are likely to make other people feel bad, in any way whatsoever: for instance, rape, violence, bullying and many others may be triggering to some people. If someone, even just that one individual person, has a problem with a topic because it stirs demons best left in their pit, Do. Not. Bring. It. Up. Publicly. Use a spoiler box and think carefully about whether this is the place to broach the topic at all (see rule #1: "We are primarily a support thread.")

If you have questions or need help on something that involves triggering topics, please use spoiler tags and label your spoilers for trigger warnings. When in doubt, put trigger warnings.

3. Avoid discussing politics or religion.
It doesn't matter how much these two topics intersect with our forum topic, they are verboten. Sometimes, hints are...looked over, such as, "Man, in my country being gay sucks," but detail is right out, and even that could be considered willful disregard. Be careful. As the moderators themselves often say, if you aren't sure, don't.

4. Do not discuss moral justification.
No one here is going to discuss whether or not it's Right" or "Okay" to be LGBTAEIOUsometimesY or anything else. It's not topical, it's not relevant. We are, and we are here to cope with that and with the stresses it causes.
And no, my joking acronym doesn't constitute considering this rule less important.

5. Do not post sexually explicit content.
It's against forum rules, it's against decorum, and it will get us shut down pretty fast. What adults do behind closed doors is cool, and allusion is fine. Anything that could involve a diagram, though? No.

6. Avoid unfriendly debates.
Several topics of conversation have created huge arguments that made several people uncomfortable and defied our goal of being a support thread. This is especially true debates of definition. These do not always end well, and are best avoided.

This thread has a past of traumatic experiences which we would rather not repeat, and some topics which have created (in)famous rows include:
- the precise distinction between bi- and pansexual;
- what is or isn't a polyamorous relationship;
- whether transgender is more correct than transgendered.
(Other topics may be added to the list.)
Unless you need support or help about this, please refrain from bringing up these topics.

Also, if a conversation that is not about support runs long, spoiler it if possible, even if it is polite.

Glossary of Common Terms

For reference, here is a list of commonly-used words in our community along with their definitions. Please keep in mind that this vocabulary is constantly evolving and that this list may not be complete. Any contributions to the list are appreciated.
LGBT: Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans*

LGBTAI: LGBT+Asexual/Allies+Intersex/All-Inclusive

QUILTBAG:
Q - Queer and Questioning
U - Unidentified
I - Intersex
L - Lesbian
T - Transgender/Transsexual
B - Bisexual
A - Asexual
G - Gay, Genderqueer

GSRM: Gender, Sexuality, and Romantic Minorities; sometimes only GSM

Where a word below is in italics, that means it has its own entry on the list.

A note on labels: many of these labels are seemingly interchangeable, and for some people they are. However, please do not presume to correct or judge another person's use of a label. Bisexual and pansexual are especially tricky in this regard, as are transgender and transsexual to a lesser degree.
Often the difference in why one person feels one label is appropriate and not another is deeply personal. If you wish to know more it is probably a topic to seek private advice on, from one of the people listed in the next section.

AFAB/AMAB: Assigned Female/Male at Birth

Agender: Someone who lacks a gender.

Androgyne: Gender Identity with male and female aspects.

Androsexual: A person who is attracted to men.

Asexual: A person who does not feel sexual attraction.

Bigender: Someone who identifies as both male and female (or as any two genders) either simultaneously or alternating. See also Genderqueer, Genderfluid

Binary, The: See: Gender Binary.

Bisexual: 1. attracted to two genders; 2. attracted to one's own gender and another gender; 3. attracted to various genders; 4. attracted to people regardless of gender; 5. ask the person who says they're bi what exactly they mean by that. See also Pansexual

Cis: See: Cisgender

Cisgender (CG): Somebody whose gender and sex align.

Demisexual: A person who is sexually attracted to someone only after they have formed an intense emotional relationship with them.

Dysphoria: The etymological opposite of "euphoria." A state of unease or generalized dissatisfaction. In this context, generally referring to the discomfort or dissociation Trans* people feel with their own body.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Female: See: Woman

Female-to-Male (FtM): Someone who was assigned female at birth, but is male. (AKA: trans man)

FAAB: Female Assigned at Birth.

Feminine: Something generally associated by society with women.

FFS: Facial Feminization Surgery: Surgery to reduce chin/nose/cheekbones. Associated primarily with MAAB Trans people

FtM: See: Female to Male

Gay: See: homosexual.

Gender Binary: The commonly held notion that there are only men and women on two extremes, with nothing in between.

Gender Expression (GE): How one expresses their Gender Identity to society.

Gender Identity (GI): How one feels inside society's idea of "man, woman, or other".

Genderfluid: Someone who fluctuates between different genders.

Genderqueer (GQ): Someone who is not of a binary gender; someone who is neither male nor female.

Gynosexual: A person who is attracted to women.

Heterosexual: A person who is attracted to members of the opposite gender.

Homosexual: A person who is attracted to members of their own gender.

HRT: Hormone replacement therapy. MtF's tend to progesterone, estrogens and androgen blockers, while FtM's take testosterone almost exclusively.

Lesbian: A woman who is attracted to women.

MAAB: Male Assigned at Birth.

Male-to-Female (MtF): Someone who was assigned male at birth, but is female. (AKA: trans woman)

Man/men: A cis man or trans man. Male.

Masculine: Something generally associated by society with men.

Pansexual: A person who is attracted to people regardless of gender. See also Bisexual

Polyamorous: A person who is interested in a relationship with more than one person.

Presenting: Trans* shorthand for appearing as their preferred gender, regardless of any HRT, SRS or other changes.

Trans*: Transsexual and Transgender primarily, with the asterisk denoting that the trans- prefix could be followed by any number of appropriate words. It also includes other labels, and is a catch-all term for people who identify as something other than their biological sex at birth.

Transgender: Used in reference to a person whose sex(body) and gender(mind) are at odds or do not match. A transgender person can also identify as genderqueer, transsexual, or may use transgender as their only identity.

Transitioning: The process a Trans* person undergoes to move to their preferred gender. Often includes HRT, SRS, FFS.

Transsexual: In common terms the same as transgender above. In medical terms refers specifically to people who wish to transition from male to female or female to male, not accommodating any other options.

SRS: Sex Reassignment Surgery: Surgery to replace/transform a vagina into a penis, or vice versa. Mastectomies or plastic surgery may be used on breasts.

Sexual Orientation (SO): How one identifies who they are attracted to.

Significant Other(s) (SO): Person(s) you are in a relationship with.

Third-gendered: Someone who fits in a local society's third gender, usually male performing female tasks, occasionally vice versa. Also a person who feels they do not identify with any other gender identity.

Woman: A cis woman or trans woman. Female.

Allies: Heterosexual-Cisgender people who support equality for sexual, gender, and romantic minorities.


Private Consultation.

We have a list of people whoa re willing and able to discuss topics that may not be thread-appropriate but are still topical. They can be reached by Personal Message (PM), thought they may not respond immediately, or may be on sabbatical.


Name: Especially familiar with the topic(s) of
Absol197: Gender identity issues.
Philemonite: Relationships, depression.
Astrella: GSRM rights, feminism, trans stuff, Skype.
Chess435: Skype.
Eirala: Trans stuff (esp emotional issues), Skype(no voice or video, however).
Eldest: General/basics, bisexuality, polyamory, pansexuality will Skype(voice if needed, no video).
Enrico Dandolo (Caroline): Trans stuff, mental health, feminism, asexuality, hugs, make-up advice. PM first, Skype chat if asked.
Golentan: Mental health, fluid and questioning sexualities, and issues arising from sexual trauma.
HMS Sophia: Trans stuff (esp hormones).
inuyasha: Shoulder on which to cry, someone to listen.
Irish Musician: PM, Rants/Venting.
KenderWizard: General/basics, gender and feminism, bisexuality.
Kesnit: Trans stuff (FtM), legal issues.
Lea Plath: Genderfluidity.
Lentrax: General/basics, depression, bullying.
Lix Lorn: General/basics.
Lycunadari: Genderqueer and agendered.
Metditto: PM/Skype for L, T, GQ, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), demisexual, feminism, therapy, depression, dissociative identities.
Musashi: General/basics, asexuality/demisexuality, depression.
Mystic Muse: Skype-y goodness.
noparlpf: General/basics, asexuality, greysexuality, biology, Skype.
Partysan: PM/Skype, polyamory, pansexuality, BDSM(Off-thread or Spoiler Triggered), Rants/Venting.
Socratov: Skype-ness.
TaiLiu: General Transgender information, transphobia.
Warkitty: Academic/technical discussions, Make-up advice.
Wormwood74: Transgender legal issues, transgender outside contacts.

Some people are also willing to talk off-board, through Skype or email or other means; this is especially useful if your question involves board-forbidden topics such as religion or politics. Also, we can't (and ethically shouldn't!) give medical advice. If you need medical advice, please see a professional!

And as a parting note, I will say that even though moderators do not read PMs, they are still part of the forum and still subject to forums rules. Non-allowed topics and discussion should NOT be conducted via PM.


Previous Incarnations

Like the Glorious and Unconquered Sun, we have risen, lived, died, and risen anew, with many faces, many voices, many hearts. In this past, much can be found, both good, and bad, should one be brave or perhaps, foolish, enough to seek it.


LGBT people in the playground

LGBT people in the playground - part II

LGBTitp - part III

LGBTitp 4: We are a family?

LGBTitp - Part Five

LGBTitp - Part Six

LGBTitp - Part Seven

LGBTitp - Part Eight

LGBTitp - Part Nine

LGBTAitp - Part Ten

LGBTAitp - Part Eleven

LGBTAitp - Part Twelve

LGBTAitp - Part Thirteen

LGBTAitp - Part Fourteen

LGBTAitp - Part Fifteen

LGBTAitp - Part Sixteen

LGBTAitp - Part Seventeen

LGBTAitp - Part Eighteen!

LGBTAitp - Part Nineteen

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty - Critical Hit!

LGBTAitp - Part Twenty-One - BLACKJACK!

LGBTAitP Part 22: The Best There Is

LGBTAitP Part 23: Et tu, ~Bianca?

LGBTAitP: Alphabet Soup-with 24 different Vitamins!

LGBTAitP part 25: Doing Away With Subtitles

LGBTAitP 26: No Time For Snappy Titles

LGBTAitP 27: Of Shoes, and Ships, and Sealing Wax

LGBTAitP #28: Come Taste the Rainbow!

LGBTAitP #29: The Rainbow Outreach Program

LGBTAitP 30: Free Cuddles (Enquire Within)

LGBTAitP #31: Cuddles Are On Back Order. Have Some Snuggles!

LGBTAitp #32: The Great Plushie Invasion!

LGBTAitp #33: The Thread at the End of the Rainbow!

LGTAitP #34: <3!!

LGBTAitp #35: What Midlife Crisis? :3

LGBTAitp #36: May Contain Bites!

LGBTAitP #37: Once upon a time...

LGBTAitP #38: Once More With Feeling!!

LGBTAitP #38: Making Your Way in the World Today....

LGBTAitP #40: Technicolour Partyboat

LGBTAitp #41 - Imprecise Terminology Supercenter

LGBTAitp #42: Better Than Skittles/The Meaning of Life!

LGBTAitp #43 [Insert snappy subtitle here]

LGBTAIitP #44: Quick, We Need To Vote A New Title!

LGBTAIitP #45: Rainbow Anarchy

LGBTAitP #46: I Cast Prismatic Hugs

LGBTAIitp #47: Weather Control Central

LGBTAIitp #48: For a Cuddly Tomorrow!

LGBTAIitp #49: Please check all baggage before boarding the Rainbow Rail Road

LGBTAI+ #50: Warning: This Thread Has Exceeded its Maximum Awesome Level

LGBTAI+ 51: Lay That Hammer Down!

LGBTAI+ 52: Aces High

LGBTAI+ 53: The Nefarious Rainbow Syndicate






Webcomics that touch on... Well, everything related to the thread.
Venus Envy. (http://www.venusenvycomic.com/) Long dead webcomic. The creator has chosen not to continue it and move forward in life.
Rain. (http://rain.thecomicseries.com/comics/first/) A story of a MtF girl in high school.
Khaos Komix. (http://www.khaoskomix.com/)As the creator puts it(from his site): "A complete GLBTWTFBBQ comic about gender and sexuality. (Trigger warnings for EVERYTHING and nothing is safe for work.)"
Always Raining Here. (http://alwaysraininghere.com/index.php/first-page/) "Adrian is heartsick, Carter is horny. This is a story about their misadventures as awkward teenagers as they fumble through unrequited romances."
Tripping over you. (http://trippingoveryou.com/comic/gmorning-sunshine/)An awkward blind date leads to better options.
Questionable Content. (http://www.questionablecontent.net/) The LGBTA characters are fairly well done, and not stereotypes.
What's normal anyway. (http://whatsnormalanyway.net/?p=93) "What’s Normal Anyway? is a comic that discusses the trans male experience through the story of Mel, who takes the big risk of being himself and transitioning from female to male."
Princess. (http://the-princess.funonthe.net/) A webcomic.
Twokinds. (http://twokinds.keenspot.com/) Keveak: "It generally portrays GRSM matters positively and is quite a nice tale overall."
Misfile (Misfile.com) The Rose Dragon: "Ash is a young boy who, as a result of a screw-up in Heaven, gets stuck in a girl's body in a life he doesn't recognize, and has to deal with the changes and challenges of his new body while trying to get back his old life. Supernatural hijinks and car racing are involved."
Portside Stories (http://portsidestories.tumblr.com/) A cute(and recently started) webcomic.
El Goonish Shive (http://www.egscomics.com/) A long running webcomic, that I've heard often touches on lgbta relevant stuff.

I know I missed a few webcomics, and if anyone finds more, feel free to PM them to me with a brief description, and I will add them.
*as a shift from the usual copy/paste, I will add: I'm bad at writing up descriptions of things

The Brand New LGBTA Arts & Crafts Thread! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288941)

[Ravens_cry]

Reposting post from previous thread.

Gaffs. (http://www.crossdresser.com/lingerie-bras-gaffs/crossdressing-hiding-gaffs?gclid=CJ_FucGW8cICFUNrfgodPTQA1w) They're specifically designed (in a few different ways depending on style) to make sure there's no visible bulge from panties because unlike most lady's undergarments they are sewn with a penis in mind and the intention of keeping it out of sight.

Can compression underwear also work? On one hand, sure, they won't be designed to also look like pretty panties, but they are also at least a little less of a speciality product, so are going to be, in theory, less expensive.

[Lentrax]

Having not worn either, I cannot say. Though I would imagine the compression underpants would not be as effective as a gaff, since they were not designed to conceal.

[Jormengand]

Oh, hey, a thread. Hey people.

[SiuiS]

That is a very uncomfortable article to read, Lena. I think there's a valid point that's missed, that some of is don't address the issue in the way brought up because it opens out own wounds.

I don't have enough left in me to re-examine every cut and laceration, to pluck apart the stitches and let them freely, redly weep just so I can deny the knives that caused them. However pretty a picture, however useful a blueprint could be found in the blood of my wounds afterward, I cannot say it's worth it. Examining the validity of cisnormative beauty standards isn't done because many of us are seen together with spit and hope, and wouldn't survive the sutures being exposed to scrutiny.

It's a collective communal silence, so that there is a collective community left.

[Anarion]

That is a very uncomfortable article to read, Lena. I think there's a valid point that's missed, that some of is don't address the issue in the way brought up because it opens out own wounds.

I don't have enough left in me to re-examine every cut and laceration, to pluck apart the stitches and let them freely, redly weep just so I can deny the knives that caused them. However pretty a picture, however useful a blueprint could be found in the blood of my wounds afterward, I cannot say it's worth it. Examining the validity of cisnormative beauty standards isn't done because many of us are seen together with spit and hope, and wouldn't survive the sutures being exposed to scrutiny.

It's a collective communal silence, so that there is a collective community left.

There's an amount of pain there that rends my heart. There may be other ways to make changes, but for the moment, I mostly just feel like giving you a hug. *hugs*

[SiuiS]

My instinct is to dissemble or play humble. I will simply say, 'thank you' instead.

[golentan]

Anyone else get some homoerotic vibes coming from Thorin and Bilbo in the latest movie? (Terrible movie, but I enjoyed it despite hating it intensely)

[Anarion]

Anyone else get some homoerotic vibes coming from Thorin and Bilbo in the latest movie? (Terrible movie, but I enjoyed it despite hating it intensely)

I haven't seen it, but I'm going to it tomorrow. I shall keep my eyes open.

[golentan]

I haven't seen it, but I'm going to it tomorrow. I shall keep my eyes open.

They emphasize the word "friend" a lot, in a way that made me wonder. I shan't give spoilers.

[Astrella]

That is a very uncomfortable article to read, Lena. I think there's a valid point that's missed, that some of is don't address the issue in the way brought up because it opens out own wounds.

I don't have enough left in me to re-examine every cut and laceration, to pluck apart the stitches and let them freely, redly weep just so I can deny the knives that caused them. However pretty a picture, however useful a blueprint could be found in the blood of my wounds afterward, I cannot say it's worth it. Examining the validity of cisnormative beauty standards isn't done because many of us are seen together with spit and hope, and wouldn't survive the sutures being exposed to scrutiny.

It's a collective communal silence, so that there is a collective community left.

Mew. I know mew. The burden of changing cis normative beauty standards shouldn't be on us though mew, that's something that allies can help a lot with mew, calling out that stuff, trying to change it. Trans women shouldn't be responsible for a society that pushes that crap on us.

[Anarion]

They emphasize the word "friend" a lot, in a way that made me wonder. I shan't give spoilers.

They departed from the book enough that it's possible for the movie to have spoilers? :smallconfused:

[golentan]

Nah, but still. I got shouted at the last time I revealed what I thought was not a spoiler here.

[Astrella]

I admit the thought did cross my mind while watching it too, Golly. But I think like, Dwarves attach a lot and a lot of importance to friendship + the books being written in a different age probably means it wasn't intended.

----

I also picked up a term related to sex that might be useful: valprehension. Essentially what the person being penetrated by something does. Can be helpful for trans women who feel dysphoric / uncomfortable around penetration and similar terms, and also helps remove the idea that places the person penetrating as being the only actor.

[golentan]

I admit the thought did cross my mind while watching it too, Golly. But I think like, Dwarves attach a lot and a lot of importance to friendship + the books being written in a different age probably means it wasn't intended.

----

I also picked up a term related to sex that might be useful: valprehension. Essentially what the person being penetrated by something does. Can be helpful for trans women who feel dysphoric / uncomfortable around penetration and similar terms, and also helps remove the idea that places the person penetrating as being the only actor.

Huh, that's an interesting word... I can't find a dictionary definition for it... Do you have a more in depth explanation?

Also:
I guess the point where I started wondering was towards the end. Two people got drawn out, intended as touching death scenes where they passed a message to someone, Fili mouths "I Love You" to Tauriel and Thorin apologizes for everything to Bilbo and tells him he is a dear friend.

And that got me thinking about the repeated use of that word, Friend, especially in the final scene when Bilbo returns to Bag End and has a long pause where he searches for the right word for what Thorin was to him.

[Astrella]

@Golly; I got it from this (http://unobject.tumblr.com/post/48454882581/sex-talk-for-trans-women-and-the-rest-of-yall).

And yeah, about the Bilbo - Thorin thing, those were the same moments that gave me that impression too.

[Ravens_cry]

It could be a culture shift, much like how Sam and Frodo evoked a lot of the same feelings for many in the Lord of the Rings movies,
Still, I certainly did not get that feeling from them in the Hobbit novel, so maybe Peter Jackson just really likes writing slash.

[Kunie]

Didn't even notice this thread until a minute ago. Nice to meet you all. :smallsmile:

[Coidzor]

I admit the thought did cross my mind while watching it too, Golly. But I think like, Dwarves attach a lot and a lot of importance to friendship + the books being written in a different age probably means it wasn't intended.

----

I also picked up a term related to sex that might be useful: valprehension. Essentially what the person being penetrated by something does. Can be helpful for trans women who feel dysphoric / uncomfortable around penetration and similar terms, and also helps remove the idea that places the person penetrating as being the only actor.

Makes sense, good to have another term to more finely refer to what's going on during sex there, since the existing terminology is just... awful. Makes writing and reading erotica require a mutual agreement to suspend disbelief or be so horny that one's "what am I reading?" centers deactivate.

It's kind of weird, at least where I've found the Valprehension wordpress explaining why they invented the term after running into the verb valprehend, which seems to just be, well, kegels and kegel-equivalents. This person has an awful lot invested in the idea that a person cannot penetrate themselves, which was rather... incongruous with the general thrust of their ethos otherwise.

Also I'm kind of disappointed they didn't even address the fact that there is, in fact, non-valprehensive agency, not even by dismissing it as an irrelevant quibble. But, then, I suppose there's several components of this post which are already close enough to quibbling they wouldn't want to actually bring up that subject at all.

Always impressive when you have to read half of a piece of writing to get to someone's thesis, though.

Other than that, yeah, the term itself makes sense, even though it sounds like it'd be a bit... lulzy the first few times one uttered it or tried to use it in a sentece. If we were elsewhere on the internet we could go back and forth over the semantics and headspace and if you're going to invent this term you might as well also pair it with a bottom-sexuality equivalent to top-sexuality's "thrusting."

Actually, looking at the blog which invented the term valprehend itself which valprehension is derived from... I know it's been a half decade since 2010 when Valprehend was invented, but even before then I've encountered language about both women and men actively participating in penetrative sex, even with a lack of a specific term, so I find this assertion to the level of dogma that we were completley unable to discuss the idea of a woman having active agency and participation in penetrative sex rather than less able to be... flawed and slightly confusing.

Even without that there's still a clear need and purpose established for inventing the term and for wanting to propagate awareness of it. :smallconfused:

Not sure how many people are going to get the Val = Strength = Feel Powerful idea. That'd be interesting to find out though.

Huh. And at the end they still seem to have not escaped a binary state where one partner is passive and one partner is active, so both partners or, all partners in a 3+ sexual encounter, cannot be active at the same time. Interesting. Disappointing, but interesting. :smallconfused: I hope they've found a way for both partners to be actively engaged in sex in the intervening 5 years since writing that.

[Shadowscale]

What makes one transsexual, I always used the distinction of someone being fully transitioned and with all the surgeries, but I have trouble finding people who can accurately separate the two. Compared to transgendered that is.

[Coidzor]

What makes one transsexual, I always used the distinction of someone being fully transitioned and with all the surgeries, but I have trouble finding people who can accurately separate the two. Compared to transgendered that is.

A lot of it seems to depend on the individual person, who they're addressing, and what year it is/was.

Much like whether people will get cheesed off for using "transgender" or "transgendered."


It could be a culture shift, much like how Sam and Frodo evoked a lot of the same feelings for many in the Lord of the Rings movies,
Still, I certainly did not get that feeling from them in the Hobbit novel, so maybe Peter Jackson just really likes writing slash.

Well, more people relative to who watched the movies wanted Sam and Frodo to bone or thought they'd been boning than people who read the books, IIRC.

So I think Peter Jackson and his crew definitely had sommat to do with the matter, yes, even if it was just a natural consequence of trying to depict a relationship between two males on film.

[Comrade]

Didn't even notice this thread until a minute ago. Nice to meet you all. :smallsmile:

Hey! Welcome to the forums and to this thread!

[Kunie]

Hey! Welcome to the forums and to this thread!

Thank you, and a pleasure to meet you. I hope I'm not being too much of a dork, haha. I identify as pansexual and genderqueer, if anyone is curious. :)

*leaves tea and cookies out for everyone*

[Anarion]

I'm not sure if it's Jackson, or if it's just the age in combination with visual media. Like, Sam carried Frodo up the mountain because he collapsed doesn't, as a text file, obviously shout out erotic homosexual undertones. But if you take that and show Sam Gamgee, overwrought with emotion, lift up Frodo and carry him up the mountain, their bodies right up against each other, it's going to make people think about what feelings they might have.


Didn't even notice this thread until a minute ago. Nice to meet you all. :smallsmile:

*Ahem* You're a Raven-bunny! Squeeeeeeee.

I mean, hi, welcome.

[Vwulf DeMarcus]

Hey look, a thread. Hi all! :)

[Kunie]

I'm not sure if it's Jackson, or if it's just the age in combination with visual media. Like, Sam carried Frodo up the mountain because he collapsed doesn't, as a text file, obviously shout out erotic homosexual undertones. But if you take that and show Sam Gamgee, overwrought with emotion, lift up Frodo and carry him up the mountain, their bodies right up against each other, it's going to make people think about what feelings they might have.



*Ahem* You're a Raven-bunny! Squeeeeeeee.

I mean, hi, welcome.

*hugs* Hey there, I appreciate your squees!


Hey look, a thread. Hi all! :)

Howdy, Vwulf. :)

[SiuiS]

It's entirely possible we are all just conditioned and don't realize it.

Romance between me was not always a bad thing. The bond of brothers, the bond of companions at arms, is a thing that still exists; it's been depicted in the last few decades as "so manly it cuts through the girl ones right back around to Man Town, suck it up", but despite poor presentation it's still a thing. You'll hear that a lot. One of my favorites was a well-delivered off-hand joke by a character on scrubs, saying "is it that I have the name Terry tattooed on my butt? We were partners in the war. You would understand if you knew what we went through […]", and that's it. There's an undercurrent of a fierce love between two people who shouldn't love each other, based on respect and deep empathy, that is seemingly alien to folks now because the culture that engendered it – that made it necessary, to have some human link even in the depths of social sociopathy – simply doesn't exists anymore.

This goes both ways. You have people who just cannot grok non-"relationship sexy times getting married homosexual totally secret closet" relationships between men, and you get people who know they're supposed to depict such a thing but don't know how. You end up with the same sort of tunnel vision as in romance novel fantasies. A romance novel is full of what's basically abuse; but because it's bought into as part of the genre, it's acceptable. It's consensual.

With these guys, you'll get people who understand that the homoromantic undertones are a shorthand for a close bond that's not really homoromantic, or you'll get people who won't buy in who see homoeroticism.

My thoughts, Anyway.


It could be a culture shift, much like how Sam and Frodo evoked a lot of the same feelings for many in the Lord of the Rings movies,
Still, I certainly did not get that feeling from them in the Hobbit novel, so maybe Peter Jackson just really likes writing slash.

Headcanon accepted.

[spoiler="Coidzor"]

Makes sense, good to have another term to more finely refer to what's going on during sex there, since the existing terminology is just... awful. Makes writing and reading erotica require a mutual agreement to suspend disbelief or be so horny that one's "what am I reading?" centers deactivate.

Interesting. Do you have examples? I'm not seeing it.


it's kind of weird, at least where I've found the Valprehension wordpress explaining why they invented the term after running into the verb valprehend, which seems to just be, well, kegels and kegel-equivalents. This person has an awful lot invested in the idea that a person cannot penetrate themselves, which was rather... incongruous with the general thrust of their ethos otherwise.

Mm. I read it as "to take into" as opposed to just squeeze.


Also I'm kind of disappointed they didn't even address the fact that there is, in fact, non-valprehensive agency, not even by dismissing it as an irrelevant quibble. But, then, I suppose there's several components of this post which are already close enough to quibbling they wouldn't want to actually bring up that subject at all.

I don't know the background enough to get it. What sorts of other nonvalprehensive agency?



Other than that, yeah, the term itself makes sense, even though it sounds like it'd be a bit... lulzy the first few times one uttered it or tried to use it in a sentece. If we were elsewhere on the internet we could go back and forth over the semantics and headspace and if you're going to invent this term you might as well also pair it with a bottom-sexuality equivalent to top-sexuality's "thrusting."

Actually, looking at the blog which invented the term valprehend itself which valprehension is derived from... I know it's been a half decade since 2010 when Valprehend was invented, but even before then I've encountered language about both women and men actively participating in penetrative sex, even with a lack of a specific term, so I find this assertion to the level of dogma that we were completley unable to discuss the idea of a woman having active agency and participation in penetrative sex rather than less able to be... flawed and slightly confusing.

Even without that there's still a clear need and purpose established for inventing the term and for wanting to propagate awareness of it. :smallconfused:

Mm. This seems to me like someone who is simply both naive in a way, and passionate. Passion leads to tunnel vision sometimes.



Not sure how many people are going to get the Val = Strength = Feel Powerful idea. That'd be interesting to find out though.

Don't know if it relates to Sapir-worf like I feel it would, but yes. Mentally using an active term rather than a passive receptive one changes the texture of the thought and also requires rewording sentences and paragraphs to account for it's proper use. It accidentally structures things in a way which makes the valprehendor into an active power figure, both in their action taken and in their decision to utilize or not utilize that action as a meta level power play.

This plays interestingly into a changeling I was running for a while actually. I need to break through the conservative veneer of a fellow player and bombard him with hypotheticals about this. We never got to the point where there was enough space in the spotlight for the character's submissive-aggressive behavior to manifest well.


What makes one transsexual, I always used the distinction of someone being fully transitioned and with all the surgeries, but I have trouble finding people who can accurately separate the two. Compared to transgendered that is.

The difference is preference more than technicality. I suppose you could quibble that transsexual is concerned more with physical sex presentation but then you end up with two (relatively) identical people, one transsexual and one transgender, simply because of how they choose to focus on their apotheosis.

The clear key however is that if you ever tell someone what transsexual (vs transgender) means and they correct you, then – unless actual harm will come from actual misunderstanding – your response should just be "okay."

[golentan]

Welcome new folks!

[Kunie]

Welcome new folks!

Thanks for welcome, golentan. How are you doing?

Also, hey Siuis. :smallsmile:

[Comrade]

Thank you, and a pleasure to meet you. I hope I'm not being too much of a dork, haha.
Ain't no such thing in this thread. At least, I hope not, for my own sake.


Hey look, a thread. Hi all! :)

Welcome!

[golentan]

Thanks for welcome, golentan. How are you doing?

Also, hey Siuis. :smallsmile:

I am fighting with my cat because he does NOT GET TO EAT THE PECAN PIE, Grandpa!

My sleep schedule is wonky.

I'm tremendously lonely.

And I have nothing to do for the next week.

[SiuiS]

Thanks for welcome, golentan. How are you doing?

Also, hey Siuis. :smallsmile:

Hi there! Your avatar is familiar to me, but I don't de plum your nom. We have met before, oui?


I am fighting with my cat because he does NOT GET TO EAT THE PECAN PIE, Grandpa!

My sleep schedule is wonky.

I'm tremendously lonely.

And I have nothing to do for the next week.

XD

I'm serious about the writing buddies/writing group thing. If you know how to make a Facebook group for writing silly romance for fun, I'm in. :smallsmile:

[golentan]

XD

I'm serious about the writing buddies/writing group thing. If you know how to make a Facebook group for writing silly romance for fun, I'm in. :smallsmile:

If you promise to hold me feet to the fire so that I produce at least a chapter a week, I'm in. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, you're in the bay area, right? We could meet in person.

[SiuiS]

Potentially! I'm anchored a bit though.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/artist%20training%20grounds/art%20Study/0C36932D-45DF-4B76-9E31-1CA58C1266DB.jpg

But I've got an eventual get-together wi' Anarion pegged as 'hopeful' for mid-January, and would like to grab Gaelbert along too. I'll see if we can plan a day of it?

[golentan]

Sounds good to me. And I'd really like to give your lil babby something... Is she old enough for soft candy yet? Or alternately, what size onesie does she wear?

[Kunie]

Hi there! Your avatar is familiar to me, but I don't de plum your nom. We have met before, oui?

I don't think we have, but regardless, I'm glad we did now. It's really nice having an LGBTAI+ space on a tabletop forum, being a newcomer to it myself. :)

[Ravens_cry]

I don't think we have, but regardless, I'm glad we did now. It's really nice having an LGBTAI+ space on a tabletop forum, being a newcomer to it myself. :)
Well, welcome regardless. Just watch out for a stage magician with big blue nose.:smalltongue:

[golentan]

Well, I just read a commentary on valprehension that I should not have...

I now support the word wholeheartedly. Partly because it's a great word, and partly to spite that ass.

[Shadowscale]

I am fighting with my cat because he does NOT GET TO EAT THE PECAN PIE, Grandpa!

My sleep schedule is wonky.

I'm tremendously lonely.

And I have nothing to do for the next week.

I had to stay away from work for a week doctor's orders, and therefore am ditto on your last two points. Maybe we can fix that?

[golentan]

I had to stay away from work for a week doctor's orders, and therefore am ditto on your last two points. Maybe we can fix that?

Oh, milady. Always with the flirtation. :smallwink:

[Kunie]

I had to stay away from work for a week doctor's orders, and therefore am ditto on your last two points. Maybe we can fix that?

I just got off of a seasonal job, doing retail at a toy store. I sure don't miss it, but not having an income's going to hurt for a while. I do have some things lined up (potentially), so fingers crossed.

And hello to you, Shadowscale. :)

[KerfuffleMach2]

I just got off of a seasonal job, doing retail at a toy store. I sure don't miss it, but not having an income's going to hurt for a while. I do have some things lined up (potentially), so fingers crossed.

And hello to you, Shadowscale. :)

My lack of income is just about to end. Been out of a job for a while, starting a new one Tuesday.

Also had to deal with taking my mom to radiation and chemo for a while. Which wasn't fun.

[golentan]

My lack of income is just about to end. Been out of a job for a while, starting a new one Tuesday.

Also had to deal with taking my mom to radiation and chemo for a while. Which wasn't fun.

Oh no, is she going to be alright? What's her prognosis? *hugs*

[KerfuffleMach2]

Oh no, is she going to be alright? What's her prognosis? *hugs*

She has uterine cancer. Went through a hysterectomy, but it got into her lymph system, so she needed radiation and chemo. Stage 2, I think.

The radiation is done, as is the first round of chemo. At the end of this month, she starts the second round of chemo, which will be a stronger dosage, but she has to take it less often. The first round was once a week, the next round will be once every three weeks. After that, we just have to wait and see.

She's taking it well enough. She decided to shave her head, so that way the hair loss is on her terms. So, my brothers and I did the same. And since my hair was a foot long, I donated it. She also wanted to charge people a buck to see me without my hair.

[Kunie]

She has uterine cancer. Went through a hysterectomy, but it got into her lymph system, so she needed radiation and chemo. Stage 2, I think.

The radiation is done, as is the first round of chemo. At the end of this month, she starts the second round of chemo, which will be a stronger dosage, but she has to take it less often. The first round was once a week, the next round will be once every three weeks. After that, we just have to wait and see.

She's taking it well enough. She decided to shave her head, so that way the hair loss is on her terms. So, my brothers and I did the same. And since my hair was a foot long, I donated it. She also wanted to charge people a buck to see me without my hair.

*hug* I'm so sorry to hear about that.

[KerfuffleMach2]

*hug* I'm so sorry to hear about that.

Thanks. Just hoping it'll be fine after the chemo is done.

[golentan]

Thanks. Just hoping it'll be fine after the chemo is done.

Your family will be in my thoughts until you pull through this. Again, *hugs*

[KerfuffleMach2]

Your family will be in my thoughts until you pull through this. Again, *hugs*

Hey, just having people to talk to is good for me. I seem to have the habit of finding friends that like to abandon me.

[SowZ]

She has uterine cancer. Went through a hysterectomy, but it got into her lymph system, so she needed radiation and chemo. Stage 2, I think.

The radiation is done, as is the first round of chemo. At the end of this month, she starts the second round of chemo, which will be a stronger dosage, but she has to take it less often. The first round was once a week, the next round will be once every three weeks. After that, we just have to wait and see.

She's taking it well enough. She decided to shave her head, so that way the hair loss is on her terms. So, my brothers and I did the same. And since my hair was a foot long, I donated it. She also wanted to charge people a buck to see me without my hair.

Been there, man. Here's to hoping everything turns out. Hell.

[Kunie]

Hey, just having people to talk to is good for me. I seem to have the habit of finding friends that like to abandon me.

Trust me when I say that I've been there. Talking to people helps me, too.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Been there, man. Here's to hoping everything turns out. Hell.

Thanks.


Trust me when I say that I've been there. Talking to people helps me, too.

Yeah, just need people to talk to. Kind of the hard part for me.

[Anarion]

Saw the Hobbit, I'm not sure I see the romance angle though. My sense was that Bilbo had been inspired by Thorin. Forced out of his home initially, but then pushed onwards to complete the quest. And Thorin, in particular, was royalty, nobility. He had a bearing of authority and power that Bilbo felt was worth following. Thorin's greed in the movie was like watching a friend give in to an addiction and his death was untimely and was a loss to Bilbo who had made every effort to see Thorin become the great king he had the potential to be. So, I see what you guys are mentioning, but I don't really see it that way.


If you promise to hold me feet to the fire so that I produce at least a chapter a week, I'm in. :smallbiggrin:

Actually, you're in the bay area, right? We could meet in person.

You're a day or two too quick, I intend to organize that. I'm challenged by my own schedule tending to fill up quickly, but we will find a way to have a meeting with each other.


Potentially! I'm anchored a bit though.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/artist%20training%20grounds/art%20Study/0C36932D-45DF-4B76-9E31-1CA58C1266DB.jpg

But I've got an eventual get-together wi' Anarion pegged as 'hopeful' for mid-January, and would like to grab Gaelbert along too. I'll see if we can plan a day of it?

Cute!


My lack of income is just about to end. Been out of a job for a while, starting a new one Tuesday.

Also had to deal with taking my mom to radiation and chemo for a while. Which wasn't fun.

Mood swing responses: Congrats on getting the job! And I'm so sorry to hear about your mom. Good luck to her!

[Grytorm]

An acquaintance of mine committed suicide recently. It is interesting seeing how my family reacts and how deeply it affects people. I have definitely been effected but after a few days I think about it less but it still seems like they are more affected than I am maybe. Looking into the past while I only really care for her ex girlfriend my sisters roomate. I hope they are doing okay.

I have somewhat common thoughts of suicide. Which is difficult I guess. Dwelling on this isn't necessarily healthy because it engages emotional centers best left undisturbed. I don't even know why I am typing this part. A desire to share something but no words exist it leads into selfish dribble. Insecurities, loneliness, fears of sociopathy. I am making this about me by typing this. Who knows.

[SiuiS]

Interesting, in that you're not predisposed to engage in that kind of behavior not seek it everywhere.

So I'm looking at face book and groups and getting gun shy. Do I want to vomit to actually having to set out and write that romance novel? Even if drivel is allowed, that's daunting :smalleek:

Maybe I'll stick to snippets?

[KerfuffleMach2]

Mood swing responses: Congrats on getting the job! And I'm so sorry to hear about your mom. Good luck to her!

Thank you, and thank you.


An acquaintance of mine committed suicide recently. It is interesting seeing how my family reacts and how deeply it affects people. I have definitely been effected but after a few days I think about it less but it still seems like they are more affected than I am maybe. Looking into the past while I only really care for her ex girlfriend my sisters roomate. I hope they are doing okay.

I have somewhat common thoughts of suicide. Which is difficult I guess. Dwelling on this isn't necessarily healthy because it engages emotional centers best left undisturbed. I don't even know why I am typing this part. A desire to share something but no words exist it leads into selfish dribble. Insecurities, loneliness, fears of sociopathy. I am making this about me by typing this. Who knows.

I'm gonna guess you're typing it because you have the need to share with somebody, and figured this'd be the safest place. Which is fine. Makes sense to me. I share the insecurities and loneliness, so I kinda have an idea where you're coming from.

As for your suicidal thoughts...well, I have had those a couple times. What chased them away for me is thinking that things couldn't possibly get better if I followed through on them. Could things get worse? Yeah. That's always possible. Can't get better if you don't stick around, though.

[Grytorm]

I'm gonna guess you're typing it because you have the need to share with somebody, and figured this'd be the safest place. Which is fine. Makes sense to me. I share the insecurities and loneliness, so I kinda have an idea where you're coming from.

As for your suicidal thoughts...well, I have had those a couple times. What chased them away for me is thinking that things couldn't possibly get better if I followed through on them. Could things get worse? Yeah. That's always possible. Can't get better if you don't stick around, though.

Maybe.

I just realized nobody actually wants to talk to me. The only time I am in contact with those I call friends is when I reach out to them. Whats wrong with me.

[golentan]

Interesting, in that you're not predisposed to engage in that kind of behavior not seek it everywhere.

So I'm looking at face book and groups and getting gun shy. Do I want to vomit to actually having to set out and write that romance novel? Even if drivel is allowed, that's daunting :smalleek:

Maybe I'll stick to snippets?

Be Bloody, Bold, and Resolute! Be steadfast and true! C'mon, if nobody is making me keep to a deadline I'll never get anything written!


An acquaintance of mine committed suicide recently. It is interesting seeing how my family reacts and how deeply it affects people. I have definitely been effected but after a few days I think about it less but it still seems like they are more affected than I am maybe. Looking into the past while I only really care for her ex girlfriend my sisters roomate. I hope they are doing okay.

I have somewhat common thoughts of suicide. Which is difficult I guess. Dwelling on this isn't necessarily healthy because it engages emotional centers best left undisturbed. I don't even know why I am typing this part. A desire to share something but no words exist it leads into selfish dribble. Insecurities, loneliness, fears of sociopathy. I am making this about me by typing this. Who knows.

I've been suicidal before. If you ever need someone to talk to, please reach out for help first. You can see firsthand how much it hurts the people who love the victim.

If there's anything I can do to help, please let me know. I did attempt suicide at one point, and it was the worst mistake of my life. I don't think you're being selfish, and I know that "just don't do/think it" isn't helpful, but whatever you need, I'll be there if you ask.

[SiuiS]

Maybe.

I just realized nobody actually wants to talk to me. The only time I am in contact with those I call friends is when I reach out to them. Whats wrong with me.

That says nothing of you, sweet. It says more of them.

Consider though; ordinary people don't expect much from friendship as an institution. Everyone seems to feel that their desires for friends to be close and not just background characters in their escapades is a personal, selfish desire when that's truly what everyone wants. They may just be normalized and not realize they're crappy friends.


Be Bloody, Bold, and Resolute! Be steadfast and true! C'mon, if nobody is making me keep to a deadline I'll never get anything written!

I was going to try writing joke pulp romance style prose about literally holding your feet to a fire, but then I realized that's a huge violation of the rules. XD

Fine! I'll work something out eventually I suppose. Means I need to Facebook more often, though...

[golentan]

AAAAAAGH~!!!

Fire burns! No fire! No burning!

[SiuiS]

It's probably for the best that way. Last time an iron poker came up in writing it was agony trying to figure out how to make it relevant, interesting and believable.

Writing is like math. I hate it because it's a public and weirdly judged endeavor, even though the act itself is enjoyable.

[Coidzor]

Well, I just read a commentary on valprehension that I should not have...

I now support the word wholeheartedly. Partly because it's a great word, and partly to spite that ass.

Well, that escalated quickly. I didn't think I was being quite that hard on them, though. :smalltongue:

But seriously, that's just kinda weird. One would have to be running in fairly specific circles to have been exposed to valprehension because it's been ~5 years since its debut and it hasn't entered general consciousness, no?


An acquaintance of mine committed suicide recently. It is interesting seeing how my family reacts and how deeply it affects people. I have definitely been effected but after a few days I think about it less but it still seems like they are more affected than I am maybe. Looking into the past while I only really care for her ex girlfriend my sisters roomate. I hope they are doing okay.

I have somewhat common thoughts of suicide. Which is difficult I guess. Dwelling on this isn't necessarily healthy because it engages emotional centers best left undisturbed. I don't even know why I am typing this part. A desire to share something but no words exist it leads into selfish dribble. Insecurities, loneliness, fears of sociopathy. I am making this about me by typing this. Who knows.

Grief, mourning, reacting to death. These are for the living.

Definitely sounds like you have some things you need to unpack and work your way through here, though, rather than just relying on being able to keep them boxed away in the attic.

[golentan]

Well, that escalated quickly. I didn't think I was being quite that hard on them, though.

But seriously, that's just kinda weird. One would have to be running in fairly specific circles to have been exposed to valprehension because it's been ~5 years since its debut and it hasn't entered general consciousness, no?



Grief, mourning, reacting to death. These are for the living.

Definitely sounds like you have some things you need to unpack and work your way through here, though, rather than just relying on being able to keep them boxed away in the attic.

The guy was going on about the "a-sexual feminist agenda" and how women don't do anything during sex and have to get used to the idea that they're the ones being... *ahem* screwed.

I feel really sorry for his girlfriends if he thinks that anyone in a sexual relationship should be something other than an active participant.

[Grytorm]

That says nothing of you, sweet. It says more of them.

Consider though; ordinary people don't expect much from friendship as an institution. Everyone seems to feel that their desires for friends to be close and not just background characters in their escapades is a personal, selfish desire when that's truly what everyone wants. They may just be normalized and not realize they're crappy friends.

They are mostly great company when I randomly run into them. Often. I don't know if they are good friends. I wish I could spend more time with them. And they are the only friends I have. Like everything about me it is a lackluster part of my life.

[KerfuffleMach2]

Maybe.

I just realized nobody actually wants to talk to me. The only time I am in contact with those I call friends is when I reach out to them. Whats wrong with me.

Join the club. I know exactly how you feel there.

I try to talk to them. About half will hold a conversation when I initiate the contact. But none of them initiate the contact with me. None. Including a guy I've know since 1999. And a couple whose wedding I attended. As the best man. They stopped contact for some unknown reason a month ago. Won't respond to me. And the other friend hasn't responded to me in years.

It feels like, if there were a party where all of my friends were, and I was there, then they would talk to me and hang out a bit and stuff. But if I wasn't there, then none of them would wonder where I was, or try to get me there. They'd just act like I didn't exist and continue with the party.

Kind of upsetting. Also making me not want to find new friends again, because all of them so far have done this to me. Don't really feel like there's a point anymore.

Sorry. Bit of a rant there. Haven't really had anybody to share stuff with lately.

[SowZ]

An acquaintance of mine committed suicide recently. It is interesting seeing how my family reacts and how deeply it affects people. I have definitely been effected but after a few days I think about it less but it still seems like they are more affected than I am maybe. Looking into the past while I only really care for her ex girlfriend my sisters roomate. I hope they are doing okay.

I have somewhat common thoughts of suicide. Which is difficult I guess. Dwelling on this isn't necessarily healthy because it engages emotional centers best left undisturbed. I don't even know why I am typing this part. A desire to share something but no words exist it leads into selfish dribble. Insecurities, loneliness, fears of sociopathy. I am making this about me by typing this. Who knows.

The fact that you are afraid of sociopathy and are insecure about it indicate that you aren't a psychopath.

[Kunie]

I feel I should share that I've had thoughts of suicide as well, which only exaggerated after my family forced me out of the closet, along with the hellish amount of rejection and abuse I went through afterwards. It's never easy to think about it, and I always try my best to help myself, but a part of it always comes back.

[golentan]

I feel I should share that I've had thoughts of suicide as well, which only exaggerated after my family forced me out of the closet, along with the hellish amount of rejection and abuse I went through afterwards. It's never easy to think about it, and I always try my best to help myself, but a part of it always comes back.

If you need to talk about it, or anything else, we're here for you.

[Astrella]

I just thought it might be a handy word for trans women and such to avoid dysphoria...

[Lentrax]

Hey everybody. I don't have time to address everyone specifically right now, otherwise I would be multiquoting this thread like a boss, but look, it all comes down to this.

If you need to talk. If you need to vent. If you need to rant or rave, or just cry. I am here. I have an open inbox. And for the next few months I should be coherent enough to do something to help, until I enter my dark months for the year anyway...

Just wanting to let you know...

http://www.midwestoutreach.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Frazier-Crane.jpg

[Kunie]

Thanks for the kind words, all. :smallsmile:

Also, happy to meet you Astrella! *hugs*

[SiuiS]

Dropped quote I think. Wee'n runs in 9-12mo.
Luckily, she's not big enough to be into actual sizes yet...


I just thought it might be a handy word for trans women and such to avoid dysphoria...

It is, it's just a word worth discussing is all. :)

[Absol197]

I like this word and whole-heartedly support it!

However, I have questions about how to conjugate it. Anyone?

I valprehend
You valprehend
he/she/it valprehends? Am I on the right track?

Also, I am seconding people like Lentrax (hi again, Lentrax! I'm back-ish!): if you ever need anyone to talk to, I'll be here for you as much as I can. Talking is important. I almost gave in to that sort of unpleasantness once, and it was horrible for me. I also know what it's like to have someone close to you hurt themselves. It's not nice at all.

So, yeah...talk to us, please!


~Phoenix~

[Anarion]

I'm thirding Lentrax. I'm in a relatively stable position spot myself, and I'd be very open to talking privately to anyone that wants to chat about anything.

Also, regarding friends specifically, having people reach out or not isn't the way to think about it. It's not a rejection of you if nobody ever calls. A lot of relationships are not balanced and wouldn't even be good relationships if they were balanced. Some friends are very passive, and they think they're being a good friend simply by being available when you want to talk. Some of them might even worry that they'd be butting in on your private time if they contacted you instead of you contacting them. So, don't assume that someone thinks you're not important just because they're not initiating contact. If something does feel off, tell the person. "Hey, it seems like you haven't been in touch much recently. You really busy? Everything going okay? Anything I can help out with?"

[Kunie]

Also, I am seconding people like Lentrax (hi again, Lentrax! I'm back-ish!): if you ever need anyone to talk to, I'll be here for you as much as I can. Talking is important. I almost gave in to that sort of unpleasantness once, and it was horrible for me. I also know what it's like to have someone close to you hurt themselves. It's not nice at all.

So, yeah...talk to us, please!


~Phoenix~

*hugs you, offers cake*

Hello, Absol! I'm happy to meet you, and thanks for the kind words. :smallsmile:
Love your avatar, by the way.

[Anarion]

golentan, be a pal and clear out your completely full PM inbox so I can PM you about getting together soon, please. :smalltongue:

[Absol197]

*hugs you, offers cake*

Hello, Absol! I'm happy to meet you, and thanks for the kind words. :smallsmile:
Love your avatar, by the way.

Cake! *noms*

Thanks, I love my avatar too! It was made by our own Juniper here! And feel free to call me Phee :smile: .

I used to be a regular around here, but I got really busy and wasn't able to keep posting. But I'm back, hopefully to stay!


~Phoenix~

EDIT: Oh, I forgot! A me update for those who remember me: I'm at 1 year on hormones (a little longer, but), and things are going well. I have my SRS scheduled for my trans-birthday this year (in August; only a little more waiting...). I also got my name officially changed! My family, all of them, yes even the grandma that used to be really LGBT-phobic, are supportive. Things are going quite well. So that means since I don't have many dysphoria problems left myself, my job has shifted to helping others who are not as lucky as I am. Anything you want to talk or gripe about, let me know!

[Kunie]

I have to say, I'm taken aback at just how many trans and non-binary members are on this forum. I'm used to being among the handful (usually due to open prejudices or personal fears), but to see such a laid-back community is pretty mindblowing.

[SiuiS]

Cake! *noms*

Thanks, I love my avatar too! It was made by our own Juniper here! And feel free to call me Phee :smile: .

I used to be a regular around here, but I got really busy and wasn't able to keep posting. But I'm back, hopefully to stay!


~Phoenix~

EDIT: Oh, I forgot! A me update for those who remember me: I'm at 1 year on hormones (a little longer, but), and things are going well. I have my SRS scheduled for my trans-birthday this year (in August; only a little more waiting...). I also got my name officially changed! My family, all of them, yes even the grandma that used to be really LGBT-phobic, are supportive. Things are going quite well. So that means since I don't have many dysphoria problems left myself, my job has shifted to helping others who are not as lucky as I am. Anything you want to talk or gripe about, let me know!

Oh, right on! I'm glad! So there wasn't any trouble with having to move and basically being a part of the wrong branch of the company any more?

[Absol197]

Oh, right on! I'm glad! So there wasn't any trouble with having to move and basically being a part of the wrong branch of the company any more?

Yes. Well, sort of. I did some math and by selling some possessions, I can afford doing COBRA insurance. It means spending $5,000 more than necessary, basically meaning I don't get to save that money for FFS, but, eh. I want to get the big one out of the way, and get my official gender changed on documents first. Then hopefully I can get family members to loan me some money for FFS.

I had to sell my baritone saxophone to afford it, though :smallfrown: . I loved that horn...But she wasn't getting played at all and that wasn't likely to change soon, so now she's with a professional musician and going to get played a lot, which is what she deserves.Sorry for anthropomorphizing my musical instrument, but...gosh, I have a lot of memories with it. *Sniff*

~Phoenix~

[SiuiS]

... I would say I'm surprised about the COBRA thing but Anarion told me to do that very same thing like two months ago and I blew him off. :smallsigh:

Well, nuts to me and my pessimism! Rock on for you! I hope to be trailing along behind you very soonly. :smallsmile:

[Kunie]

Yes. Well, sort of. I did some math and by selling some possessions, I can afford doing COBRA insurance. It means spending $5,000 more than necessary, basically meaning I don't get to save that money for FFS, but, eh. I want to get the big one out of the way, and get my official gender changed on documents first. Then hopefully I can get family members to loan me some money for FFS.

I had to sell my baritone saxophone to afford it, though :smallfrown: . I loved that horn...But she wasn't getting played at all and that wasn't likely to change soon, so now she's with a professional musician and going to get played a lot, which is what she deserves.Sorry for anthropomorphizing my musical instrument, but...gosh, I have a lot of memories with it. *Sniff*

~Phoenix~

I'm very glad that you're getting to transition, and it's nice that you at least found a good owner for your saxophone. Be happy for the good you've done, friend. :smallbiggrin:

I just hope things don't go too bad from here. Selling possessions is never easy.

[Absol197]

... I would say I'm surprised about the COBRA thing but Anarion told me to do that very same thing like two months ago and I blew him off. :smallsigh:

Well, nuts to me and my pessimism! Rock on for you! I hope to be trailing along behind you very soonly. :smallsmile:

You really have to look at your finances, but if you think about it, COBRA is the smart way to go. Sure, id you had the insurance it would only be about ~$8,000, but without any it's more like ~$27,000. If your COBRA payments are like mine, then they're about $500 a month. So for 10 months like I had to do, it was tough but possible. $13,000 is still a heck of a lot cheaper than $27,000!

Oh, also! I got myself hooked on romance novels, so my current writing project is to write a romance! And of course, because this is me we're talking about, it's going to be a modern fantasy. And I'm going to tie the story into the world for my serious (is that a good word? Romance isn't not-serious...) stories I'm working on! It's going to be awesome! Detail available for those who want 'em...

[Kunie]

How neat, I'm working on becoming a writer, too! I'd love to hear more about your work, Absol.

[Anarion]

... I would say I'm surprised about the COBRA thing but Anarion told me to do that very same thing like two months ago and I blew him off. :smallsigh:


It's also not too late to enroll for regular health ensurance right now. The several hundred dollars less than COBRA kind. Just saying.

[SiuiS]

Oh, also! I got myself hooked on romance novels, so my current writing project is to write a romance! And of course, because this is me we're talking about, it's going to be a modern fantasy. And I'm going to tie the story into the world for my serious (is that a good word? Romance isn't not-serious...) stories I'm working on! It's going to be awesome! Detail available for those who want 'em...

https://mlpforums.com/uploads/monthly_08_2013/post-11395-0-29896200-1376410564.gif

I have a Facebook group I need you to join once I make it!

It's also not too late to enroll for regular health ensurance right now. The several hundred dollars less than COBRA kind. Just saying.

I'm still vaguely working on the 'my GF has some of the best benefits in the pay bracket' angle, though we are having some differences of opinion on getting me into her benefits.

[Absol197]

https://mlpforums.com/uploads/monthly_08_2013/post-11395-0-29896200-1376410564.gif

I'm not quite sure what this means *is being serious* ...

Also, no one answered me question! How does one conjugate valprehension? This is driving me batty (-er than normal!)


~Phoenix~


EDIT: Also, I do not do Facebook. At all. Sorry :smallwink:

[KerfuffleMach2]

I'm thirding Lentrax. I'm in a relatively stable position spot myself, and I'd be very open to talking privately to anyone that wants to chat about anything.

Also, regarding friends specifically, having people reach out or not isn't the way to think about it. It's not a rejection of you if nobody ever calls. A lot of relationships are not balanced and wouldn't even be good relationships if they were balanced. Some friends are very passive, and they think they're being a good friend simply by being available when you want to talk. Some of them might even worry that they'd be butting in on your private time if they contacted you instead of you contacting them. So, don't assume that someone thinks you're not important just because they're not initiating contact. If something does feel off, tell the person. "Hey, it seems like you haven't been in touch much recently. You really busy? Everything going okay? Anything I can help out with?"

Well, when the length of time that they haven't made any effort to contact me can be measured in years, I think I'm allowed to get a little upset about it.

[Kunie]

It's also not too late to enroll for regular health ensurance right now. The several hundred dollars less than COBRA kind. Just saying.

I'm actually not too familiar with COBRA or anything like that myself. I personally have thought of transitioning in the past, but money issues and lack of support often got in the way. Now that I'm slowly starting to get more independant, might this be something to consider?

[Shadowscale]

I have never felt this sick before :( It's going on day 6.

[Absol197]

I'm actually not too familiar with COBRA or anything like that myself. I personally have thought of transitioning in the past, but money issues and lack of support often got in the way. Now that I'm slowly starting to get more independant, might this be something to consider?

I'm assuming you're American for this.

COBRA is some ridiculous acrynym for basically staying on your employer's insurance after you've left the company. You basically have to have worked for a company that has an insurance policy that covers SRS, and then have left. Now, obviously, remaining at the company would be the better alternative, because then you don't have to pay nearly as much for the insurance, and it still covers you.

What happened to me is that I worked for a company that covered SRS, then my division was sold to a company that doesn't a little more than a year before I was planning to get my surgery. So my options were: no insurance (not possible to afford surgery), or do COBRA to stay on my first company's insurance (very expensive, but possible).

[golentan]

I have never felt this sick before :( It's going on day 6.

Please see a doctor, if it's gone on this long and is getting worse it could be very serious...

[Shadowscale]

Please see a doctor, if it's gone on this long and is getting worse it could be very serious...


I did, I was told if by monday i don't start improving to worry. Blisters on the back of my throat. Apparently from my job I got a serious virus usually only little kids get, but since they drool all over the carts. :/

[Kunie]

I'm assuming you're American for this.

COBRA is some ridiculous acrynym for basically staying on your employer's insurance after you've left the company. You basically have to have worked for a company that has an insurance policy that covers SRS, and then have left. Now, obviously, remaining at the company would be the better alternative, because then you don't have to pay nearly as much for the insurance, and it still covers you.

What happened to me is that I worked for a company that covered SRS, then my division was sold to a company that doesn't a little more than a year before I was planning to get my surgery. So my options were: no insurance (not possible to afford surgery), or do COBRA to stay on my first company's insurance (very expensive, but possible).

I see. Right now, I'm 20 and living with my family. My mother recently retired, and on top of the therapy I'm currently attending, it's taken a major hit on my budgeting (I've been unemployed for the last three years after a rather nasty experience with one of my last jobs). So now, I have to consider every option I need to.

I'm sorry if I'm being bothersome about it. It's really not easy to think about, being boxed up like this.

[Absol197]

I see. Right now, I'm 20 and living with my family. My mother recently retired, and on top of the therapy I'm currently attending, it's taken a major hit on my budgeting (I've been unemployed for the last three years after a rather nasty experience with one of my last jobs). So now, I have to consider every option I need to.

I'm sorry if I'm being bothersome about it. It's really not easy to think about, being boxed up like this.

It's no problem :smallsmile: . For your situation then looking for independent health insurance would be the way to go, but I have absolutely no idea how to do that. Sorry I can't help...It sounds like Anarion might have some helpful hints, though!

[Anarion]

It's no problem :smallsmile: . For your situation then looking for independent health insurance would be the way to go, but I have absolutely no idea how to do that. Sorry I can't help...It sounds like Anarion might have some helpful hints, though!

I might! Not sure though.

First off, it depends what state you're in. Some states have a state health exchange while other states do not and you'll need to use healthcare.gov. Google it, something like "[state name here] health exchange." I believe that open enrollment for 2015 remains open still, meaning that you can simply go onto the exchange, enter your info and browse possible plans. If you have no employment, that probably means Medicaid and I have no idea if they cover transitioning. You can look at the options you have and see their statements of coverage if you browse around, again depends on website exactly where.

If you don't want medicaid and you have some money, you can also pay for other plans.

[SiuiS]

I'm not quite sure what this means *is being serious* ...

Also, no one answered me question! How does one conjugate valprehension? This is driving me batty (-er than normal!)


~Phoenix~
EDIT: Also, I do not do Facebook. At all. Sorry :smallwink:

I'm going to make a Facebook group strictly for writing romance and romance-themed things? Which so far consists solely of me and Golentan forcing each other to put out actual words. Unfortunate about the Facebook stuff – I only do because it lets me keep in touch with Sensei Wayne and my lineage! Elsewise. Eh.

Don't suppose I could get you to make a dummy account just for romance writing? :3

And I use valprehendor the same as apprehend. I don't actually know how to conjugate (rather, not explicitly. My education has been lacking...) so... Yeah.


Well, when the length of time that they haven't made any effort to contact me can be measured in years, I think I'm allowed to get a little upset about it.

Aye.


I have never felt this sick before :( It's going on day 6.

Och. I know that feel. I basically spent November in traction. :-/
Get better, s'il vous plaît?


I see. Right now, I'm 20 and living with my family. My mother recently retired, and on top of the therapy I'm currently attending, it's taken a major hit on my budgeting (I've been unemployed for the last three years after a rather nasty experience with one of my last jobs). So now, I have to consider every option I need to.

I'm sorry if I'm being bothersome about it. It's really not easy to think about, being boxed up like this.

Try trade unions. They're hard to get into and screen for persistence (and iron work can ruin your body forever if you're not prepped for it... T~T) but they have good pay, good contracts, good benefits and despite being filled with asshat losers who are likely homophobic as sin, their contracts require respect for orientation and such so being openly transsexual is actually better than not because anyone speaking out against you is screwed.

This isn't always worth the 'putting up with bigot hjerkwads" cost though.

[Coidzor]

To valprehend and to (http://www.the-conjugation.com/english/verb/apprehend.php) apprehend (http://www.verb2verbe.com/conjugation/english-verb/apprehend.aspx) should use the same (http://www.verbix.com/webverbix/English/apprehend.html) conjugations (http://www.spanishdict.com/conjugate/apprehend) given their commonalities, I believe.

So other than valprehend, valprehended, valprehending, and the rare valprehends, we have things like "would" or "have" or "will" modifying one of those base conjugations.

[Kunie]

I'm going to make a Facebook group strictly for writing romance and romance-themed things? Which so far consists solely of me and Golentan forcing each other to put out actual words. Unfortunate about the Facebook stuff – I only do because it lets me keep in touch with Sensei Wayne and my lineage! Elsewise. Eh.

Don't suppose I could get you to make a dummy account just for romance writing? :3

Oh, could I join too? :3


Try trade unions. They're hard to get into and screen for persistence (and iron work can ruin your body forever if you're not prepped for it... T~T) but they have good pay, good contracts, good benefits and despite being filled with asshat losers who are likely homophobic as sin, their contracts require respect for orientation and such so being openly transsexual is actually better than not because anyone speaking out against you is screwed.

This isn't always worth the 'putting up with bigot hjerkwads" cost though.

Funny you mention trade. At one point, my parents tried to force me into a technical college (despite me actually having progress at the time in getting a job anyway), with little actual research or consideration of my actual skills compared to the dream job they wanted me to get. They even cut away all funding to my community college classes (another thing I have to worry about now, with money becoming scarce) and all but told me to pass this class or get booted into the streets. Long story short, the whole thing was a disaster, and my parents only got a fraction of their money back. I'm just lucky I'm still here, typing this.

[SiuiS]

Now I just want to see how one gets valprehensive :3

Well, that clinches it. Tomorrow when I can computer and not phone I'll actually make a group. :)

[golentan]

Now I just want to see how one gets valprehensive :3

Well, that clinches it. Tomorrow when I can computer and not phone I'll actually make a group. :)

I'll send you pictures sometime, assuming that Braz won't murder me for it. :3

[Lentrax]

I like this word and whole-heartedly support it!

However, I have questions about how to conjugate it. Anyone?

I valprehend
You valprehend
he/she/it valprehends? Am I on the right track?

Also, I am seconding people like Lentrax (hi again, Lentrax! I'm back-ish!): if you ever need anyone to talk to, I'll be here for you as much as I can. Talking is important. I almost gave in to that sort of unpleasantness once, and it was horrible for me. I also know what it's like to have someone close to you hurt themselves. It's not nice at all.

So, yeah...talk to us, please!


~Phoenix~

Heya, Phee! Been a while! *hugs*

Glad to hear you are doing well, and congratulations on making the 1 year mark for hormones. Its a big milestone, and one I am glad to hear you have passed.

[Togath]

So Leelah Alcorn's tumblr(and suicide note) were deleted earlier today.
...
Society really pisses me off at time like this.

[Jaycemonde]

So Leelah Alcorn's tumblr(and suicide note) were deleted earlier today.
...
Society really pisses me off at time like this.

Her "parents" are disgusting wastes of resources. We should shoot them into space.

[Marnath]

Her "parents" are disgusting wastes of resources. We should shoot them into space.

I fail to see how being some of the first space tourists would be a punishment. O.o

[Irish Musician]

Cake! *noms*

Thanks, I love my avatar too! It was made by our own Juniper here! And feel free to call me Phee :smile: .

I used to be a regular around here, but I got really busy and wasn't able to keep posting. But I'm back, hopefully to stay!


~Phoenix~

EDIT: Oh, I forgot! A me update for those who remember me: I'm at 1 year on hormones (a little longer, but), and things are going well. I have my SRS scheduled for my trans-birthday this year (in August; only a little more waiting...). I also got my name officially changed! My family, all of them, yes even the grandma that used to be really LGBT-phobic, are supportive. Things are going quite well. So that means since I don't have many dysphoria problems left myself, my job has shifted to helping others who are not as lucky as I am. Anything you want to talk or gripe about, let me know!
It fills my heart with joy and my eyes with tears to See Phee around again :smallsmile:

So Leelah Alcorn's tumblr(and suicide note) were deleted earlier today.
...
Society really pisses me off at time like this.
There was a link I found at some point that linked to her archived Tumblr, with note.

I fail to see how being some of the first space tourists would be a punishment. O.o
No...no.....shot out of a cannon, into space, into the sun. :smallamused:

Also, Siuis, glad to see your foal is getting so big!:smallbiggrin:

And nice to see new people around, Hello Cat-Raven. I'm Matt, or Matthew if you like, neighborhood, friendly Ally. Usually lurking and just reading, trying not to put my foot in my mouth too much.

M

[Jormengand]

I fail to see how being some of the first space tourists would be a punishment. O.o

Because Mars probably gets really boring after a while.

[Astrella]

I'm going to reply to stuff later, but I wanted to quickly share this cute trans webcomic I found: Portside Stories (http://portsidestories.tumblr.com/page/26)

[Irish Musician]

I'm going to reply to stuff later, but I wanted to quickly share this cute trans webcomic I found: Portside Stories (http://portsidestories.tumblr.com/page/26)
Lena, dear......if you are going to link a super cute comic like that, I'm going to need more than, like, 26 panels here. Now I have to wait for more......I hate waiting for more! :3

[Lycunadari]

Welcome to all the new people here! :smallsmile:

I've not been around much lately, I've started university in October and it feels like I'm drowning in stuff. Also, depression and anxiety came back in full force so that's another "I feel like drowning". But I'll pull through, somehow.But if anyone ever needs me, just write me a PM and I will make time for you. :smallsmile:

Also also, *glomps Phee* I missed you! And I'm so, so happy to hear your doing well. :smallsmile:

– Juniper

[Astrella]

Cake! *noms*

Thanks, I love my avatar too! It was made by our own Juniper here! And feel free to call me Phee :smile: .

I used to be a regular around here, but I got really busy and wasn't able to keep posting. But I'm back, hopefully to stay!


~Phoenix~

EDIT: Oh, I forgot! A me update for those who remember me: I'm at 1 year on hormones (a little longer, but), and things are going well. I have my SRS scheduled for my trans-birthday this year (in August; only a little more waiting...). I also got my name officially changed! My family, all of them, yes even the grandma that used to be really LGBT-phobic, are supportive. Things are going quite well. So that means since I don't have many dysphoria problems left myself, my job has shifted to helping others who are not as lucky as I am. Anything you want to talk or gripe about, let me know!

Hi again, Phee, I'm really glad your family turned around. :)

[Absol197]

Welcome to all the new people here! :smallsmile:

I've not been around much lately, I've started university in October and it feels like I'm drowning in stuff. Also, depression and anxiety came back in full force so that's another "I feel like drowning". But I'll pull through, somehow.But if anyone ever needs me, just write me a PM and I will make time for you. :smallsmile:

Also also, *glomps Phee* I missed you! And I'm so, so happy to hear your doing well. :smallsmile:

– Juniper

Hi Juniper!!! *Glomps back*

I take it your Abi went well, seeing as you're doing University now. I know you can do it! You'll pull through! My PM box is kinda full, but I'll try to clear some space in case you want to talk! Good luck!


Hi again, Phee, I'm really glad your family turned around. :)

Thanks, Lena! We haven't talked in forever! I hope things are going well for you! It seemed kinda rocky the last time we talked. Anytime 'm on Skype, please don't hesitate to message me if you feel like you need to talk!

[Karen Lynn]

My Phoenix senses were tingling. Hi Phee!

[Jormengand]

My Phoenix senses were tingling. Hi Phee!

While everyone's hi-ing everyone else, hi Karen. : 3

[Absol197]

My Phoenix senses were tingling. Hi Phee!

Hi Karen! How are you? You are another person I have not spoken with in a while! I hope you're doing well :smallsmile: !


~Phoenix~

[noparlpf]

It's also not too late to enroll for regular health insurance right now. The several hundred dollars less than COBRA kind. Just saying.

Yeah...my dad lost his job so my options were $2k/month COBRA to keep that (and the tremendous hassle it involved; they paid well when they actually paid for things but they were so useless they were actually negatively impacting my health overall) or NY health care (and the hassle that involves, because they messed something up and that means they won't be giving me insurance until mid-February). Ugh. But at least the NY health care plan isn't $2k/month. I can't afford that. That's like 15 times as expensive as my car insurance.

[golentan]

Suddenly hormone swing.

I have blocked craigslist as a precaution against temptation.

[SiuiS]

Planning for day trip will come once in finished planning my birthday and can convince Braz to sit a while and listen, declared Cain style. :smallbiggrin:


I fail to see how being some of the first space tourists would be a punishment. O.o

Oh, terrible people can suck the fun out of anything, never worry. They wouldn't enjoy [redacted] if it was Pan himself who [redacted].


Her "parents" are disgusting wastes of resources. We should shoot them into space.

Indeed. Sigh.

It's a terrible trap really. There's a lot of (valid) push for the trans community to work harder towards changing beauty standards and syatemized transmisogyny but, that leaves is out cold. It's a bunch of people who can't be arsed to change their own bad habits telling us to put the future of the next unfortunate generation before our own current health and well being, and it's a good plan almost! But, where does 'put on your own gas mask first' come in? It's a trap. Not a cunning trap, but a "oh god I only now see how deep the rabbit hole of the world sucking so bad goes" variety.

It's literally mind numbing to think about. Like, I can't process it. I get numb. It's like starting at weirdly advanced math. It seems to run on some form of electricitynumbers, but I'll be damned if I can make it out...

[Kunie]

You know, I've been having a bit of trouble looking out for LGBT spaces. I had one when I was going to college and making friends for the first time in years, but now that I won't be able to get back anytime soon, I need to think about trying to get more social again.

[Shadowscale]

Planning for day trip will come once in finished planning my birthday and can convince Braz to sit a while and listen, declared Cain style. :smallbiggrin:



Oh, terrible people can suck the fun out of anything, never worry. They wouldn't enjoy [redacted] if it was Pan himself who [redacted].



Indeed. Sigh.

It's a terrible trap really. There's a lot of (valid) push for the trans community to work harder towards changing beauty standards and syatemized transmisogyny but, that leaves is out cold. It's a bunch of people who can't be arsed to change their own bad habits telling us to put the future of the next unfortunate generation before our own current health and well being, and it's a good plan almost! But, where does 'put on your own gas mask first' come in? It's a trap. Not a cunning trap, but a "oh god I only now see how deep the rabbit hole of the world sucking so bad goes" variety.

It's literally mind numbing to think about. Like, I can't process it. I get numb. It's like starting at weirdly advanced math. It seems to run on some form of electricitynumbers, but I'll be damned if I can make it out...

I'm fine with putting our faith in the future generations at our own expense even most likely with me not having and descendants, at least those born after will live in a better place. Keep moving forward a bad movie once said.


You know, I've been having a bit of trouble looking out for LGBT spaces. I had one when I was going to college and making friends for the first time in years, but now that I won't be able to get back anytime soon, I need to think about trying to get more social again.

I feel you on that, such spaces though are essentially non existent in my state, it sucks you can't really be out at work nothing protects T rights and in a right to work state they will fire you. So I essentially can't be open anywhere or talk to anyone about any of this stuff.

[SiuiS]

the issue is, if we are the only ones making that change, we're suckers being tricked into giving up out happiness and still not securing theirs.

It's true that focusing on passing, and feminine beauty standards is feeding into a bad system and maintaining the toxicity, but the alternative – for trans women to not worry about looking feminine at all (and really, what is a feminine look? It's all beauty standards socialization. All the way down.) – doesn't help. It just makes us feel like **** because we're not allowed to try to look how we feel because we're feeding into internalized sexism? There's literally no winning here.somethings gone wrong and we need to back up somehow and find the branch, the fork in the road we past that had an 'everyone wins' option.

[Shadowscale]

the issue is, if we are the only ones making that change, we're suckers being tricked into giving up out happiness and still not securing theirs.

It's true that focusing on passing, and feminine beauty standards is feeding into a bad system and maintaining the toxicity, but the alternative – for trans women to not worry about looking feminine at all (and really, what is a feminine look? It's all beauty standards socialization. All the way down.) – doesn't help. It just makes us feel like **** because we're not allowed to try to look how we feel because we're feeding into internalized sexism? There's literally no winning here.somethings gone wrong and we need to back up somehow and find the branch, the fork in the road we past that had an 'everyone wins' option.

I hope it doesn't make me to seem like an awful person. But I'm alright with a small amount of sexism. At least it gives us something to work towards versus per say the sexes being completely the same. Maybe i don't know what I'm talking about. I've always just tried to do what makes me happy. I'm okay with the trade off of looking how I feel with accepting the sexism that is society. I may not agree, but there really is no easy answer here.

[SiuiS]

I understand. Sexual dimorphism isn't itself bad, even social sexual dimorphism.

Sexism is bad because it's a tautology; sexism is negative-connotation bias based on sex. Sexism is bad because sexism is bad. There is in my mind, a level of differentiation in treatment of different genders that is acceptable. It's just not what we currently have.

[Coidzor]

I hope it doesn't make me to seem like an awful person. But I'm alright with a small amount of sexism. At least it gives us something to work towards versus per say the sexes being completely the same. Maybe i don't know what I'm talking about. I've always just tried to do what makes me happy. I'm okay with the trade off of looking how I feel with accepting the sexism that is society. I may not agree, but there really is no easy answer here.

You definitely sound like you're a bit confused, yes. I'm left wondering if you actually know what sexism or equality actually are. :smallconfused:

[Astrella]

the issue is, if we are the only ones making that change, we're suckers being tricked into giving up out happiness and still not securing theirs.

It's true that focusing on passing, and feminine beauty standards is feeding into a bad system and maintaining the toxicity, but the alternative – for trans women to not worry about looking feminine at all (and really, what is a feminine look? It's all beauty standards socialization. All the way down.) – doesn't help. It just makes us feel like **** because we're not allowed to try to look how we feel because we're feeding into internalized sexism? There's literally no winning here.somethings gone wrong and we need to back up somehow and find the branch, the fork in the road we past that had an 'everyone wins' option.

Well, the thing is the overall societal attitudes have to change, but for trans women passing for example is in the vast majority of cases a safety and survival thing, ****ting on a vulnerable group for trying to survive in a ****ty society is off course wrong. I feel that if society was less horribly transphobic and if our standards of what constitutes a woman and a man weren't so narrow (and that's not for trans women alone, black women for example tend to be considered less of a woman a lot of the time too.) then there would be a lot less of a focus on passing because a) it wouldn't be necessary to be seen as worthwhile and valid and b) wouldn't be needed for safety reasons. But that burden isn't on us, and that's something where allies can help a lot as well.

[Heliomance]

I have to say, I'm taken aback at just how many trans and non-binary members are on this forum. I'm used to being among the handful (usually due to open prejudices or personal fears), but to see such a laid-back community is pretty mindblowing.

I have observed anecdotally that there seems to be a higher than would be expected overlap between the queer demographic and the geek demographic. I've wondered if it's because of the known overlaps between the geek and alternative demographics, and between the alternative and queer demographics, or if it's because geeks tend to be a non-judgemental bunch on the whole (well, apart from the whole sexism, fake gamer girl thing).



Also, no one answered me question! How does one conjugate valprehension? This is driving me batty (-er than normal!)

With great enthusiasm :smallamused:

[Septimus Faber]

I have observed anecdotally that there seems to be a higher than would be expected overlap between the queer demographic and the geek demographic. I've wondered if it's because of the known overlaps between the geek and alternative demographics, and between the alternative and queer demographics, or if it's because geeks tend to be a non-judgemental bunch on the whole.

Based on past experiences, I'd say it's probably a combination of both.

[Coidzor]

You know, I've been having a bit of trouble looking out for LGBT spaces. I had one when I was going to college and making friends for the first time in years, but now that I won't be able to get back anytime soon, I need to think about trying to get more social again.

Ack. :/ If you're near a metropolitan area there should be some local chapter of one group or another that should have an online presence. If you still live near the college you were going to, the organization there should probably have some awareness of, if not ties with, other groups in the community.


Oh, terrible people can suck the fun out of anything, never worry. They wouldn't enjoy [redacted] if it was Pan himself who [redacted].

:smallconfused: Most straight people wouldn't be cool with Pan [redacted]ing them, really. A large number of LGBT people wouldn't want him [redacted]ing them either, for that matter.

Really, only people who possess one or more of a very particular set of fetishes would be into Pan and his [redacted].


It's a terrible trap really. There's a lot of (valid) push for the trans community to work harder towards changing beauty standards and syatemized transmisogyny but, that leaves is out cold. It's a bunch of people who can't be arsed to change their own bad habits telling us to put the future of the next unfortunate generation before our own current health and well being, and it's a good plan almost! But, where does 'put on your own gas mask first' come in? It's a trap. Not a cunning trap, but a "oh god I only now see how deep the rabbit hole of the world sucking so bad goes" variety.

I'm sorry, what's a trap? What are you reacting to? You're basically coming out of left field with this paragraph.

I can't find anything this is actually a reaction to when scrolling up the thread, unless you're trying to **** on Phee's announcement about her getting SRS scheduled and receiving support even from her previously homophobic and transphobic grandparent, which seems unlikely, or somehow think this relates to Carol Alicorn being a terrible, terrible woman, which is just incongruous. :smallconfused:

Last I checked, Carol Alcorn didn't abuse her daughter because she thought that Leelah would never be pretty enough if allowed to start transitioning as a minor. Did I miss something that crucial to the story here? Because what I had gathered was just bog-standard transphobia on the part of Madam Alcorn and her husband. :smallconfused:


It's literally mind numbing to think about. Like, I can't process it. I get numb. It's like starting at weirdly advanced math. It seems to run on some form of electricitynumbers, but I'll be damned if I can make it out...

I'd just settle for some clarity as to what you're reacting to and talking about.



By the way, Phee, congratulations on getting that scheduled and I'm glad to hear that your family has come around. :smallbiggrin:




the issue is, if we are the only ones making that change, we're suckers being tricked into giving up out happiness and still not securing theirs.

It's true that focusing on passing, and feminine beauty standards is feeding into a bad system and maintaining the toxicity, but the alternative – for trans women to not worry about looking feminine at all (and really, what is a feminine look? It's all beauty standards socialization. All the way down.) – doesn't help. It just makes us feel like **** because we're not allowed to try to look how we feel because we're feeding into internalized sexism? There's literally no winning here.somethings gone wrong and we need to back up somehow and find the branch, the fork in the road we past that had an 'everyone wins' option.

Trying to expand definitions of female beauty to the point where one could look like Hafthor Bjornsson and be considered as much a paragon of female beauty as, say, Beyonce would mean the destruction of female beauty. Somewhere between possibly and probably the destruction of gendered beauty itself as well, since male beauty on its own would start to become a mentally confusing eyesore of an idea.

Whether this would lead to a net benefit for everyone or even a net benefit for transgender individuals, I couldn't say, but I certainly don't see any obvious advantage to no longer having any idea what an attractive woman looks like, and could see androgynous beauty standards for what an attractive person looks like still favoring what we might call feminine-looking men, both cis and trans alike, over trans women who can't pass well, even if we ended up pulling a Sweden and eliminating the idea of different sexes or genders entirely, though that'd have further ripple effects and complications.

Loosening and broadening the beauty standards? Yeah, we're already trying to do that and finding that people can't seem to accept the rights of zaftig women and petite women to each feel good about themselves, one group must always be ascendant. Maybe we'll start to get that figured out over the coming decade, though, since it seems like some of the idea that women can have beauty without cleaving to a single bodytype is starting to sink in with some people to some extent.

Also, don't most transgender individuals want to pass at least to some extent because they want to be indistinguishable from cisgender individuals of their gender even when you take discrimination and violence out of the equation and not get constantly clocked by random passers by? That's part of the whole insistence on being entirely their gender rather than transness causing a person to automatically become a third gender unto itself, no? That's what makes a trans woman a trans woman instead of a genderqueer person or gender**** person or twospirit or hijra, yeah?

Certainly there'd be a greater range of what would be considered passing as a result of this hypothetical removal of transphobia, but those who passed best would still have an advantage relative to others who didn't pass as well in much the same way that a cis woman or cis man who was more attractive than their peers would be advantaged.




I have observed anecdotally that there seems to be a higher than would be expected overlap between the queer demographic and the geek demographic. I've wondered if it's because of the known overlaps between the geek and alternative demographics, and between the alternative and queer demographics, or if it's because geeks tend to be a non-judgemental bunch on the whole (well, apart from the whole sexism, fake gamer girl thing).

With great enthusiasm :smallamused:

Good question. Maybe there's some of the angle of escapism dovetailing nicely with having more to want to escape from?

Indeed, though a certain amount of care should also be taken, lest something get broken or anyone injured.

[SaintRidley]

Hi lads and ladies, and nonbinary folk who don't have a handy word starting with "lad."

Wishing you all well, and hugs for those who need it.

Also a question. Based on the number of views, I may have touched a nerve (http://powderroom.jezebel.com/your-sympathies-are-misplaced-1677301110) on the Leelah Alcorn situation. Did I maybe overdo it?

[Coidzor]

Also a question. Based on the number of views, I may have touched a nerve (http://powderroom.jezebel.com/your-sympathies-are-misplaced-1677301110) on the Leelah Alcorn situation. Did I maybe overdo it?

Couldn't say. From skimming your piece I found I agreed with most of it. The bit about bigots and neighbourhoods could've probably been fleshed out a bit better or worded differently, since that seems to be what most people who've had any reservations have latched onto.

Lotta people who want to **** on Leelah for committing suicide and a lot of people who basically know nothing about trans* issues or that actually think that trans* lives are worth less than the lives of others in the comments sections of articles about Leelah and the Alicorn family, though, so taking any kind of real stance calling them out on their malarkey would probably cause them to concentrate a bit. :/

[golentan]

I have observed anecdotally that there seems to be a higher than would be expected overlap between the queer demographic and the geek demographic. I've wondered if it's because of the known overlaps between the geek and alternative demographics, and between the alternative and queer demographics, or if it's because geeks tend to be a non-judgemental bunch on the whole (well, apart from the whole sexism, fake gamer girl thing).

Well, and take this with a grain of salt given that as has been flogged repeatedly here pretty much all studies of homosexuality involve men and not women... I just did a bunch of research on this because once I started pulling the string everything was so absurd that I kept going. Geekiness is linked strongly with correlates of testosterone exposure during childhood and pregnancy, and lesbians tend to display high testosterone traits compared to other women, and male homosexuals tend to have higher blood plasma androgen levels (with a correlating larger genital size, so yay for us who like that :smallwink: and boo-hoo for me, sadly I like smaller genitals on my guys...) than other males. As far as the trans and genderqueer folks, once again, left handedness is correlated with high androgen exposure in the womb, and both MtF and FtM populations are left handed at about twice the rate of the general population, and just as a reminder testosterone is also linked with geekiness...

In short, I've decided that testosterone is crazy and may be responsible for the creation of everything from gays to the myth of the chupacabra, because seriously this is getting absurd. :smalltongue:


With great enthusiasm :smallamused:

And practicing kegels.

[Serpentine]

Hi lads and ladies, and nonbinary folk who don't have a handy word starting with "lad."

Wishing you all well, and hugs for those who need it.

Also a question. Based on the number of views, I may have touched a nerve (http://powderroom.jezebel.com/your-sympathies-are-misplaced-1677301110) on the Leelah Alcorn situation. Did I maybe overdo it?
Check out the article "I'm a Christian, Unless You're Gay". Well worth a read for everyone.

[Lentrax]

So many people, and so much pain. I can't take reading about all the crap in all the world....

[SiuiS]

I'm responding to a general situation, not any one post, Coid. Note that most of the linked discussions on this thing are about how the problem, really, is people saying 'we need to fix society!' And not addressing how. Then they go on to list the things wrong that shouldn't have to happen, all of them focusing on Leelah's pain at not fitting into gender standards of beauty, etc.

They all make very good points. But the cost of making those points actionable is too steep. Even the examination they call for is a bit much.


Hi lads and ladies, and nonbinary folk who don't have a handy word starting with "lad."

Wishing you all well, and hugs for those who need it.

Also a question. Based on the number of views, I may have touched a nerve (http://powderroom.jezebel.com/your-sympathies-are-misplaced-1677301110) on the Leelah Alcorn situation. Did I maybe overdo it?

I'm confused. I didn't know that I was supposed to feel bad for the family? I just sort of felt the parents were background characters, useless and fumbling to the point of active malfeasance.

[Anarion]

Well, and take this with a grain of salt given that as has been flogged repeatedly here pretty much all studies of homosexuality involve men and not women... I just did a bunch of research on this because once I started pulling the string everything was so absurd that I kept going. Geekiness is linked strongly with correlates of testosterone exposure during childhood and pregnancy, and lesbians tend to display high testosterone traits compared to other women, and male homosexuals tend to have higher blood plasma androgen levels (with a correlating larger genital size, so yay for us who like that :smallwink: and boo-hoo for me, sadly I like smaller genitals on my guys...) than other males. As far as the trans and genderqueer folks, once again, left handedness is correlated with high androgen exposure in the womb, and both MtF and FtM populations are left handed at about twice the rate of the general population, and just as a reminder testosterone is also linked with geekiness...

In short, I've decided that testosterone is crazy and may be responsible for the creation of everything from gays to the myth of the chupacabra, because seriously this is getting absurd. :smalltongue:


Huh?



And practicing kegels.

Double, huh?


So many people, and so much pain. I can't take reading about all the crap in all the world....

Try picking a very small part of the world, ideally one not too far away from you so that your boiling anger at the planet can be unleashed by doing good for the community instead of raging at the heavens or getting depressed. :smallsmile:

Though indeed, only reading about the problems that people are having can be too much for anyone. Also, try to remember that the world is still pretty awesome. (http://xkcd.com/442/)


I'm responding to a general situation, not any one post, Coid. Note that most of the linked discussions on this thing are about how the problem, really, is people saying 'we need to fix society!' And not addressing how. Then they go on to list the things wrong that shouldn't have to happen, all of them focusing on Leelah's pain at not fitting into gender standards of beauty, etc.

They all make very good points. But the cost of making those points actionable is too steep. Even the examination they call for is a bit much.


You're not the one that's supposed to do the examination or the action. Standards of beauty and image problems are a society-level thing, if not a worldwide one. Picking one of the most vulnerable, least confident population demographics and shouting at them "hey, it's your job to fix everything!" isn't helpful at all and certainly won't result in anything getting fixed. It's just a thing that people do sometimes to shrug off responsibility for their own problems.

[SiuiS]

Huh?


Testosterone. Primary androgen hormone and "manly" juice, also leading theoretical cause of homosexuality and other non-masculine things.



Double, huh?


A kegel is an exercise performed using the pelvic floor muscle, mostly used by women to maintain genital health. It's also good for men but not as easy to identify the muscles for through symptom.

In women, flexion of the pelvic floor is a gripping or tightening. This gripping and tightening is the same action that would be considered valprehension.



You're not the one that's supposed to do the examination or the action. Standards of beauty and image problems are a society-level thing, if not a worldwide one. Picking one of the most vulnerable, least confident population demographics and shouting at them "hey, it's your job to fix everything!" isn't helpful at all and certainly won't result in anything getting fixed. It's just a thing that people do sometimes to shrug off responsibility for their own problems.

I know. It's just... It's less that I have to fix it. It's more just a form of acknowledging how seemingly insurmountable the thing is. I'm keeping it academic because if it's personal, it becomes despair.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, here's the best photo of me from the event, first time in womanly apparel in front of others outside of Halloween.
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h355/ravens_cry/Morgan_betterQ_zps106a45e8.jpg
I'm not wearing make up, but I am fairly happy with how I look. :smallredface:

[Anarion]

Testosterone. Primary androgen hormone and "manly" juice, also leading theoretical cause of homosexuality and other non-masculine things.


Yeah, I'm still with golentan that it apparently does everything and nothing.



A kegel is an exercise performed using the pelvic floor muscle, mostly used by women to maintain genital health. It's also good for men but not as easy to identify the muscles for through symptom.

In women, flexion of the pelvic floor is a gripping or tightening. This gripping and tightening is the same action that would be considered valprehension.


Neat, I didn't know that.



I know. It's just... It's less that I have to fix it. It's more just a form of acknowledging how seemingly insurmountable the thing is. I'm keeping it academic because if it's personal, it becomes despair.

Yeah, I mean, look. I don't know if I can be reassuring about this one. It's not your fault and it has nothing to do with you or any one person. It's not even clear how much of this is leftover biologic signs that cause attraction with features linked with good health or likely reproductive success and how much is societally reinforced standards of beauty looping into themselves and appearing to be natural. The whole edifice of "beauty" seems rather silly to me in the first place. Everyone is different and unique and I'd like to live in a world where everyone dresses and carries themselves in a way that makes them happy as an individual.

It just turns out that ideal is ridiculously hard to achieve in practice because self-confidence is a misnomer and confidence tends to be derived at least in part from the approval of others whom one respects.



Well, here's the best photo of me from the event, first time in womanly apparel in front of others outside of Halloween.
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h355/ravens_cry/Morgan_betterQ_zps106a45e8.jpg
I'm not wearing make up, but I am fairly happy with how I look. :smallredface:

I think you look good. I like the shirt.

[SiuiS]

Well, here's the best photo of me from the event, first time in womanly apparel in front of others outside of Halloween.
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h355/ravens_cry/Morgan_betterQ_zps106a45e8.jpg
I'm not wearing make up, but I am fairly happy with how I look. :smallredface:

You look like a prettier version of one of my exes. Heh.


Yeah, I'm still with golentan that it apparently does everything and nothing.

Much like with bodybuilding, T seems to be an enabler more than, you know, doing anything itself. I see it as that dude who's egging everyone else on and preventing rational discussion by going "oooh! Did you hear that? He said [total intentional misphrasing]!".



Neat, I didn't know that.


I'm now restraining my love of anatomy discussion with "those are sexy times parts, not enough [redacted]s in the world to keep that board safe", I hope you know.



Yeah, I mean, look. I don't know if I can be reassuring about this one.

That's fine. Sorry I give that impression. I'm not looking for solution or reassurance at this juncture, really. Just more exposing how I feel to some scrutiny. We get out of that habit, especially as we are conditioned to be solution finders. I'm getting back into it. It keeps me stable – seems even a modicum of physical activity makes me more, well, physical, so I'm balancing my gym routine with trying to actively be a better creature.

Interesting point on self confidence. You know, I for lucky. We all rationalize. We all face cognitive dissonance and have to decide whether our sense of self is more important, or facts are more important. I spent my youth basically talking to myself and playing solo make believe (I still do, actually!) and I developed a internal system of logic(?) and morality that, thankfully, mitigates this; because my internal systems place truth as a virtue, I don't face cognitive dissonance asuch when my personal views are disproven. It actually bolsters me if it's done in good faith. Kind dislike the virtue/vice system in WoD. My virtue, it seems, is justice, and I cut ally take great joy from solutions to conflict even if I'm the loser, provided it's a just and actual solution.
Weird to know that my esteem for myself being based on my sense of integrity is both random/fleeting, and also rare to find.

[SaintRidley]

Ravens, that's a good looking picture.




I'm confused. I didn't know that I was supposed to feel bad for the family? I just sort of felt the parents were background characters, useless and fumbling to the point of active malfeasance.

I don't think you are. I have been told by numerous people in the comments, however, who think that being blunt and angry about the fact that they abused their daughter is being just as bigoted as they are and have been toward Leelah. I'm a monster, apparently, for not feeling sympathy - they lost a child.

It's a very weird world, apparently.

[Jormengand]

So one of my best friends asked me out today and we're now A Thing. :smallredface:

[Grytorm]

Congratulations.

Also thank you for all the offered supports.

[SiuiS]

I don't think you are. I have been told by numerous people in the comments, however, who think that being blunt and angry about the fact that they abused their daughter is being just as bigoted as they are and have been toward Leelah. I'm a monster, apparently, for not feeling sympathy - they lost a child.

It's a very weird world, apparently.

Oh! That is very simple to address actually. Yes, it's also prejudiced to be mad at them. You are prejudging them for accusations of abuse without scientific proof. But nobody really cares, because A) the bigotry toward abusive parents is not of the same magnitude as the bigotry towards their victims, let alone even necessarily a bad thing, and B) even if it is bigotry, it doesn't cancel out somehow.

You'll get people who say "well yes, X mursered Y, but the press made Y lose their career. So it's even.", you just point out that it's not even because the losses aren't equal and the second loss was justified whereas the first was not.

Then you ignore them because my god that is stupid.

[Lentrax]

So one of my best friends asked me out today and we're now A Thing. :smallredface:

Congrats hon. May the two of you find happiness together.

[Anarion]

Ravens, that's a good looking picture.



I don't think you are. I have been told by numerous people in the comments, however, who think that being blunt and angry about the fact that they abused their daughter is being just as bigoted as they are and have been toward Leelah. I'm a monster, apparently, for not feeling sympathy - they lost a child.

It's a very weird world, apparently.

If you were a perfect human being, you'd forgive them and empathize with their pain because every single person, no matter their flaws, deserves respect as a person. You would point out those flaws in a way that educates, rather than condemns, and everyone would be better off for it.

On the other hand, they're as close as people get to complete trash and a just world would have punished them for what they did to their daughter. So, yeah. You're fine.

[Jormengand]

Congrats hon. May the two of you find happiness together.

I do try. :smallredface:

[Absol197]

Yay for Jormengand! You lucky duck, you!

EDIT: SiuiS! *Poke poke* I is sent you stuff...

[Jaycemonde]

Really, only people who possess one or more of a very particular set of fetishes would be into Pan and his [redacted].

You rang?
I'm not sure why they'd have to be excruciatingly particular fetishes, though. Hooves and puffy tails are cute and most of the junk Pan pulls are tricks any dumb college kid would try at a party with ample alcohol.

[KyooTrap]

So I flew up to Connecticut and I am now with the love of my life for a couple weeks. Here we are:

http://i.imgur.com/2L7Eb5T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kfSXJNs.jpg

As you can see, we're both super adorable and trans and bisexual, so we're being super queer 100% of the time and annoying everyone :3

[Jormengand]

So I flew up to Connecticut and I am now with the love of my life for a couple weeks. Here we are:

http://i.imgur.com/2L7Eb5T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kfSXJNs.jpg

As you can see, we're both super adorable and trans and bisexual, so we're being super queer 100% of the time and annoying everyone :3

Adorable~ : 3

[Astrella]

Well, here's the best photo of me from the event, first time in womanly apparel in front of others outside of Halloween.
http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h355/ravens_cry/Morgan_betterQ_zps106a45e8.jpg
I'm not wearing make up, but I am fairly happy with how I look. :smallredface:

You look good. :smallsmile:


So one of my best friends asked me out today and we're now A Thing. :smallredface:

Yay! :smallbiggrin:


So I flew up to Connecticut and I am now with the love of my life for a couple weeks. Here we are:

http://i.imgur.com/2L7Eb5T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kfSXJNs.jpg

As you can see, we're both super adorable and trans and bisexual, so we're being super queer 100% of the time and annoying everyone :3

You two look really cute together. :)

[Togath]

At request, I've added two webcomics to the op.
El Goonish Shive (http://www.egscomics.com/)
and
Portside Stories (http://portsidestories.tumblr.com/)

...Though they don't have much of a description yet, since I'm not especially good at giving quick descriptions of media(especially when it's something I've only read a small amount of yet)

[Shadowscale]

I'm not for the notion that because my opinions are different they are by extension wrong. For majority of my life to this point I've been brow beat and supposed "logiced" to death to not even allow mention of my gender dysphoria. Now that I find a supposed safe place and I care to mention that I've not only been in the situation of many of these suicidal teens but also never allowed a fraction of the acceptance everyone goes on about in my given life.

I find it rather hard to understand. More than anything I'm baffled that I'm accused of not understanding sexism and equality. Equality is something I've never had in my entire life ever. I do however understand it. I don't know how to really feel about much of anything. I find events like the suicide recent horrendous, but also the notion the parents are monsters for not paying for transitioning and hormones, therapy yes, sure knows I could of used that as well.

I'm not saying this is the reason everyone is upset, yet I've heard many say this is mainly why. I've found money equals freedom and choice and the fact of wanting to avoid being buried something that I'm not and a chance to be true to my happiest self is the only motivation I have left.

It gets better once you start fighting and striving for your on freedom and don't have the law of parental authority holding you back is what I realized. its a catch 22 cause at that age the last thing I ever wanted to hear was "It gets better" but I've found it really has to once you grow into an adult with the freedom and security to make your own life choices. I've found it never works well hating one's parents for not allowing you the life you most desire. As they never do seem to take it well. I feel conflicted. :/

[golentan]

Just because you haven't been treated well doesn't mean that equality and good treatment aren't people's birthright.

[Anarion]

Just because you haven't been treated well doesn't mean that equality and good treatment aren't people's birthright.

This.

Also, there's a difference between money being an issue and how the parents acted in the Alcorn situation.

Ideally, you get: "honey, we'll support you in this and make any other sacrifices to make it happen" (good)
Understandably, you may get: "we'll support you, but we just can't afford it right now, can you wait just a little longer?" (bad)
What happened in this case is: "you're a bad person for wanting this and you can't have it" (completely wrong and terrible)

[SiuiS]

I feel like I missed a step. What post segues into Shadowscale's point?

Also, not going to have CPU access today for trip planning and PM reading, so I'll do what I can from my phone. No promises though...


So I flew up to Connecticut and I am now with the love of my life for a couple weeks. Here we are:

http://i.imgur.com/2L7Eb5T.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/kfSXJNs.jpg

As you can see, we're both super adorable and trans and bisexual, so we're being super queer 100% of the time and annoying everyone :3

I am completely unable to tell which of you is which. I'm assuming from color memory, you're tongue girl in #2? I'm glad you're having a good time. :)

[Shadowscale]

I'm left wondering if you actually know what sexism or equality actually are. :smallconfused:

That'd be the one I'd presume.

SiuiS, your pull from my previous post about acceptable levels of differences etc was my intent and I 100% agree.


This.

Also, there's a difference between money being an issue and how the parents acted in the Alcorn situation.

Ideally, you get: "honey, we'll support you in this and make any other sacrifices to make it happen" (good)
Understandably, you may get: "we'll support you, but we just can't afford it right now, can you wait just a little longer?" (bad)
What happened in this case is: "you're a bad person for wanting this and you can't have it" (completely wrong and terrible)

Where does "We will offer counseling and are open to talk about how you feel, yet anything life changing and ireversiable will be have to be done by yourself once you're independent and able to pay for it on your own" fit in your formula? Even in your terrible situation once one achieves financial independence a parent no longer has any say?

[Anarion]

That'd be the one I'd presume.

SiuiS, your pull from my previous post about acceptable levels of differences etc was my intent and I 100% agree.

I think you used "sexism" when what you actually meant was "gender differences." Not that we've ever gotten hung up on the definition of words before, nor will we ever again, I'm sure. :smalltongue:

[Absol197]

I think you used "sexism" when what you actually meant was "gender differences." Not that we've ever gotten hung up on the definition of words before, nor will we ever again, I'm sure. :smalltongue:

No, we've never, ever done that :smalltongue: . Where would you get that idea?

[Shadowscale]

I think you used "sexism" when what you actually meant was "gender differences." Not that we've ever gotten hung up on the definition of words before, nor will we ever again, I'm sure. :smalltongue:

Yes and no. I appreciate the diffusion of tension. Maybe its just me being too accepting of the status quo of one sex being more dominating of society than it should be. Really maybe I should be more bothered by it.

[SiuiS]

That'd be the one I'd presume.

SiuiS, your pull from my previous post about acceptable levels of differences etc was my intent and I 100% agree.


Oh, okay.



Where does "We will offer counseling and are open to talk about how you feel, yet anything life changing and ireversiable will be have to be done by yourself once you're independent and able to pay for it on your own" fit in your formula? Even in your terrible situation once one achieves financial independence a parent no longer has any say?

At the bad end of "we wanna help but are broke". Parents pay for life changing irreversible decisions all the time; buying and selling houses, moving, buying and selling vehicles, choosing type and quality of schooling, college, extra curricular activities. The problem isn't that it's life changing. It's that it's life changing in a way they disapprove of and they won't accept responsibility for it.

Which sucks, because that's a totally understandable stance to take, but not a satisfying one. It's a compromise between the two and not one that really leaves anybody happy.

[Shadowscale]

Oh, okay.



At the bad end of "we wanna help but are broke". Parents pay for life changing irreversible decisions all the time; buying and selling houses, moving, buying and selling vehicles, choosing type and quality of schooling, college, extra curricular activities. The problem isn't that it's life changing. It's that it's life changing in a way they disapprove of and they won't accept responsibility for it.

Which sucks, because that's a totally understandable stance to take, but not a satisfying one. It's a compromise between the two and not one that really leaves anybody happy.

I feel kinda bad for getting an even worse version of that then. At least during my childhood I got "we're not gonna talk about it, I will ignore you if you bring it up, and there's no way I'm paying for your counseling cause you're rude and all these wrong things and I dislike your actions."

[SiuiS]

Yeah. That's frikken terrible. Why does that surprise you? Were you holding out secret hope that it wasn't terrible? :smallconfused:

[Shadowscale]

Yeah. That's frikken terrible. Why does that surprise you? Were you holding out secret hope that it wasn't terrible? :smallconfused:

The fact I still live in it and the path of getting out of it seems to get paid ridiculously little while staying it holding out that I'll make it. Ah gerd I need some friends to do stuff with and stay with. I need some positive things to bring to other people to make them wanna be around me.

[Absol197]

The fact I still live in it and the path of getting out of it seems to get paid ridiculously little while staying it holding out that I'll make it. Ah gerd I need some friends to do stuff with and stay with. I need some positive things to bring to other people to make them wanna be around me.

*Offers lots of hugs* I'm sorry that things have been so bad for you. If you want to talk, I'm always here!


~Phoenix~

[Ravens_cry]

I read El Goonish Shive in spurts (leaving it for a couple weeks, then reading the backlog) though reading about a world where convenient gender-bending exists can be very, very tough sometimes.:smallsigh:

[Absol197]

I read El Goonish Shive in spurts (leaving it for a couple weeks, then reading the backlog) though reading about a world where convenient gender-bending exists can be very, very tough sometimes.:smallsigh:

I started reading it based on your comment and...I agree. What I wouldn't give to have one of those transformation guns! If only Female Variant #5 could be made permanent...:smallredface:

Also, SiuiS, how is one supposed to pronounce your name? I keep pronouncing it Si-us in my head, but that second "i" would likely change that pronounciation...Also!*poke poke* ... I know I'm being annoying, sorry...

~Phoenix~

[Anarion]

Oh hmm, I always said it to myself kinda like "Swiss"

[Septimus Faber]

Oh hmm, I always said it to myself kinda like "Swiss"

I always thought it was "Swee-us" before realising it was probably more like "See-wiss". But that's just me.

[SiuiS]

Oh, that's a serious question. Uh.

It's as much a rune-form as it is a name, to me. I picked it up at age ten, so it started initially with an obviously American, well-read but poorly-spoke "Sigh-ooh-(i)s" or "Syou(h)s". Or when Pern came along, occasionally a quicker "S'uis".

Now, Anarion is rather close I suppose. The problem is I have a weird hang up with synesthesia. I can articulate sounds in my mind that hit don't have any physical cognates. I can hear a syllable no tongue can form. So every utterance out loud feels off, and it's a matter of getting close enough rather than getting it right. I'm now partial to "Si" (sigh) as a shortened version because it's much easier on all parties.

Part of the problem is in, well, I'm very coy. It's a running joke now in our decade old D&D game. I have my name as is proper when meeting people, and no one took note. So when they asked years later (literal years!) I didn't give it again. And that's because I'm similar in phenomenal space, not because I'm emulating a game characteristic. Names are intimate things. Nothing would be as embarrassing as phonating my own appellation incorrectly and propagating that resonance through the energy strata of my relationships with people.

How you hear the name when you think it is important to how I'm filed away in your head. I would hate to alter that. It's like changing a file name halfway through, all sorts of data references don't go where intended after!

[Coidzor]

That'd be the one I'd presume.


Honestly not sure what you expected others to take away when you readily admitted that you sounded like you didn't know what you were talking about, though. :smallconfused:

Gender Differences are not the same thing as Sexism. Homogeneity is not a desired end-goal of Equality, but a celebration of our diversity and all sitting at the same table.

That's really all there is to it.


Also, SiuiS, how is one supposed to pronounce your name? I keep pronouncing it Si-us in my head, but that second "i" would likely change that pronounciation.

I find it quite Seussical myself, and I don't care if it's wrong.

[golentan]

I started reading it based on your comment and...I agree. What I wouldn't give to have one of those transformation guns! If only Female Variant #5 could be made permanent...:smallredface:

Also, SiuiS, how is one supposed to pronounce your name? I keep pronouncing it Si-us in my head, but that second "i" would likely change that pronounciation...Also!*poke poke* ... I know I'm being annoying, sorry...

~Phoenix~

There's a trans character (FtM) who's got a date with one of the main cast as of the latest arc, and if that doesn't come up I'll eat my hat.

[SiuiS]

Honestly not sure what you expected others to take away when you readily admitted that you sounded like you didn't know what you were talking about, though.

Gender Differences are not the same thing as Sexism. Homogeneity is not a desired end-goal of Equality, but a celebration of our diversity and all sitting at the same table.

That's really all there is to it.

You'd be surprised how much this is not the Everyman message, though. And you're not the first to make the Seuss connection, and I've yet to deny it.


Phee, I'm mulling over your words like an unfamiliar spice, seeing what the water tastes like after steeping. I doubt I'll get access to a keyboard anytime soon but I'll try to put words to thoughts for you tonight.

[Absol197]

Phee, I'm mulling over your words like an unfamiliar spice, seeing what the water tastes like after steeping. I doubt I'll get access to a keyboard anytime soon but I'll try to put words to thoughts for you tonight.

Thanks, Si! Sorry, I am a very obsessive person, so if I get something in my mind I can't let it go. I make every effort ot not annoy people with my current obsession, but...I'm not always successful. Just be glad you're not near me in meat-space. The repetition of Disney music is driving my friends nuts :smalltongue: !

I also realized that I didn't give you many details about the supernatural stuff, so if you want to ignore that part that's fine. Or I can explain it to you!

[SiuiS]

I do the same. I'm very much a seasons kind of creature, and if I say 'soon' I usually mean in a few months. Unless it's somehing I'm directly interested in, then hours are a long time. It's very frustrating. Especially when it's something I need feedback on. XD


I think I'm going to buy some sort of cheap tablet with an analog keyboard. I can't keep phoning everything...


Have you read any of the works from [insert author's name: Laurel K. Hamilton?] about her vampire slayer chick? Not exactly romance, but similar. There's some potential lessons there about how to handle supernatural background fluff. The one that jumps to mind is that there's a balance between telling it all and not telling anything, and the exact positions on the dials change how readers interact with things. Fantasy tends toward disclosure with secrets being plot related, but I don't know if that's necessarily the best way to handle this.

I do know that formula wise, Romance (as opposed to romantic [genre]) is less about background stuff and less about the characters even, and more focused on the relationships involved. I'm not sure how that alleys to you yet (if at all!) but it's something I noted when doing basic research.

Hey Anarion! That's why we all couldn't interface. Charlotte was hard romance, Marchande was soft/teen romance, and Stephanie was action/adventure. :smallbiggrin:

[Absol197]

It really sucks when the current obsession is "bodily dysphoria." I'm in a good headspace right now, but every once in a while I have a week where I get dangerously close to bodily mutilation. I just keep telling myself that I'm so close to surgery, and I need those parts for it to go right! :smalltongue:

EDIT: Of the romances I've read, the majority of them have put two people (usually opposites in some ways) in a situation where they have to spend a good deal of time together, adds a splash of sexual tension, mixes, and serves :smalltongue:. I also just now realized that most of them are "buddy" cop books, where the heroines are partners that are forced to work together. But that's my experience, which is relatively limited.

[Grytorm]

I am glad that as far as I can tell dysphoria doesn't really play a role in my thoughts of suicide. Because that would make everything harder when I feel terrible and movement can leave me disgusted as my clothes move and press about my body. That this doesn't leave me hopeless. Only loneliness, and the blinf pathetic nature of how I am moving through life make me consider oblivion. Sarcastic comment of pleasure.

[Comrade]

I've been watching the TV show Chuck as of late, and constantly as I'm watching I get the urge to do one of those Let's Watch threads with commentary on each episode and such. One problem: I realised I would mostly just be a) gushing uncontrollably about how amazing John Casey is and b) ranting furiously about the show's ridiculously sexist treatment of Sarah Walker and most other female characters.

I have no clue why I chose this thread of all places to say this. I don't really post anywhere else except the metal thread (and it would have been even more inappropriate there). I just really wanted to get off my chest how much I ****ing love John Casey and despise the show's sexism.

[SiuiS]

I find that's a thread that runs through a lot of common media. The lowest common denomination is "pssh, women, amirite?" Only sometimes it's men or a different race or culture.

Hell. Look at the laugh track timing on Big Bang theory. It's a show about making fun of nerds and bashing the guy who's basically written as autistic. And we're supposed to relate to the poor, dumb, not nerd chick. Because smart folks, amirite? :smallyuk:

[GrayGriffin]

There's a trans character (FtM) who's got a date with one of the main cast as of the latest arc, and if that doesn't come up I'll eat my hat.

Considering the author has specifically mentioned that it took so long to bring up trans people in the comic because he wanted to reconcile how shape-changing magic would work in that regard, I think your hat is safe from becoming a snack.

[Comrade]

I find that's a thread that runs through a lot of common media. The lowest common denomination is "pssh, women, amirite?" Only sometimes it's men or a different race or culture.

Hell. Look at the laugh track timing on Big Bang theory. It's a show about making fun of nerds and bashing the guy who's basically written as autistic. And we're supposed to relate to the poor, dumb, not nerd chick. Because smart folks, amirite? :smallyuk:

I've avoided that show because I heard all about how enamoured it is with the 'there are no geek/nerd girls (not real ones, anyway)!' stereotype and with making fun of the autistic character, like you mentioned.

But it's weird. I looked around the internets a bit and found exceptionally few people pointing out how Chuck, frankly, beats the viewer over the head with its sexism. I can think of not a single major female military officer/agent character who is not, at some point, sexualised, usually to the point of absurdity-- and Sarah Walker, who I guess was supposed to be a kickass female agent, gets romantically involved with every male asset/agent she's shown working with (with the exception of Casey, fortunately) and spends most of her time either treated as an object in a love triangle between two men with zero ****ing agency of her own or needing rescue from somebody, usually Chuck, the guy who has a fraction of her experience as an agent and a combatant. It's to the point of being a trope in the show: if you hear the words 'send in Casey', you might have Casey going in all guns blazing, or stealthing it up, or using a disguise-- he's always employing his skills as an agent, and is shown to be really, really damn good at it. If you hear the words 'send in Walker', you're probably going to be entreated to gratuitous objectification whilst Walker seduces their invariably male target.

In fact, that's pretty much the case 100% of the time with female agents: the target is male? The go-to tactic is use sexuality. Are the men ever expected to use sexuality as a tool? Ew, no, our straight male audience wants to see boobs, not man-sex! Hell, do the female agents ever seduce another woman? Ew, no, that would be gay! Maybe we could just have our professional, top of the line government/military agents use their actual martial skills to win instead of overwhelmingly sexualising the female characters? Oh yeah, sure, the dudes are totally allowed to win through intelligence or strength or skill-- but otherwise, ew, no, that would mean displaying female competence! And we can't have that. Nobody wants to see female competence, after all. Oh, and if two women happen to be fighting each other? Better throw some hair-pulling in there!

Toss in the show's treatment of blatant stalking and sexual harassment as a joke and frankly I'm disgusted with myself sometimes just for watching it. Morgan stalks his ex-girlfriend and her new boyfriend, and even though Chuck condemns it (mildly, anyway), the show tacitly approves of his awful behaviour by having Anna decide to get back with him-- only for her to later transfer her affections to other male coworkers willy nilly, leaving the show to depict Morgan's sorrow and jealousy as opposed to, I dunno, why the hell Anna is constantly unable to settle on a single partner? I guess that would imply there was an actual in-character reason for it, when of course they just want to show the male character being jealous because his girl, the one he stalked after she left him, has the audacity to be interested in somebody else! And we, the audience, are supposed to sympathise with that.

Meanwhile Chuck, the infallible main character, literally refuses to take 'no' for an answer when Sarah states she is going to Washington DC to work alongside Agent Shaw, who is set up as a romantic rival to Chuck. She repeatedly states that it's purely professional, but Chuck obsessively clings to this conviction that she's choosing Shaw over him? And the worst ****ing thing? He's right: her motives aren't professional, because she's in personal upheaval and has romantic feelings towards Shaw. But it didn't have to be that way. She could have really been going to DC for work reasons. When she came to Chuck's house and found him drinking and pathetically whining about how she chose Shaw over him, she could have told him enough is enough, his behaviour is crossing major ****ing lines, and he needs to accept that she doesn't belong to either him or Shaw and he needs to stop before his jealousy starts impeding her career. But the writers made a conscious decision to have her instead tell him his atrocious behaviour is totally okay and actually she really does love him, despite his constant refusal to accept her decision and her agency when she tells him to **** off. That problem of how media makes men think that if they just refuse to take no for an answer and continue trying to emotionally force their way into a woman's life that woman will eventually give in to them? If anybody can find a more flagrantly offensive ****ing example of that than this, I will commend you on your incredibly sexist viewing list.

Of course, it doesn't stop at sexism: Chuck covers all its bases when it comes to insulting depictions of minorities. For example: people of colour? Nowhere to be ****ing found. The main characters and powerhouses and even most of the side characters of the story-- Chuck, Walker, Casey, Beckman, Shaw, the director of the Ring, Jill, Devon, Ellie-- all white. The only people of colour I can remember who aren't villains are the director of the CIA (a black man who was killed by the end of like the first season), Anna Wu (who spends most of her time either being stalked or acting as an object for Morgan's man-sorrow before eventually being written out of the show), Big Mike (who despite his occasional show of wisdom and badassery is more often the butt of jokes for being fat, and throughout most of the first and second seasons depicted as lazy and incompetent), Harry Tang (depicted as a nuisance for the single season he appears), Lester (a misogynistic stalker), and Morgan (... ditto what I just said for Lester). These characters are all either shown to be lazy, morally revolting, or annoying-- and the only one of them who isn't died and is no longer in the show.

As for gay people... what gay people? Not a single relationship in this constant cluster**** of romantic dithering and love triangles has involved anything but good, clean straightness, as god intended. Oh, sure, Anna at various points implies having been in relationships with women... which is almost always followed by some sort of lascivious, perverted dig by one of the male characters, and is never actually shown on screen. What's that you said? Lesbians don't exist purely for male titillation? The writers of Chuck couldn't hear you over their own infantile giggling about yet another joke of Anna's past relationships with women being reduced to sex appeal by one of the other male characters. And other than that-- nothing. Not even two men or two women in the background so much as holding hands.

The more I write, the more I realise just how much of a trainwreck I've been watching... Literally the single constant plus to this show that very rarely fails is John Casey. He's such a great character-- just the right combination of humour, badass, personal backstory, and angst to work. And you'd think that such a stereotypically masculine character-- big, tough, emotionally subdued, violent, angry-- would be a bastion of sexism, except he's anything but. He never once denigrates any of the female agents he works with for being female, never once disrespects General Beckman, never ends up involved in any of the Chuck-Walker-Other Man love triangles that make me want to rip my hair out, and treats female opponents (you know, when they're allowed to actually be the agents and fighters they're supposed to be) as legitimate threats rather than dismissing them for being female. Even still, he's not perfect-- I recall something about him believing that men in particular shouldn't be emotional, and more than once he mocks Chuck by mentioning Walker being with whatever dude Chuck happens to be jealous of at that particular time, though that's more an extension of Walker's awful writing than Casey's character, I feel.

That's it. The writing may fail, the episode's story may be lame, the humour may fall flat, the sheer bigotry is of course ever-present and about as subtle as a 2x4 to the face... but goddammit, every single scene with John Casey is ****ing gold. If only he were a female character... oh but wait, that couldn't happen. John Casey is competent, self-reliant, strong-willed, and professional... none of which are things the female characters are allowed to be.

EDIT: Just for comparison... take Warehouse 13, which itself is hardly free of its own issues with sexism and racism. Myka Bering and Pete Lattimer are fellow agents and partners who become friends, and even though Pete develops romantic feelings for Myka and is devastated when she leaves the Warehouse, the show focuses more on Myka's motives for leaving and properly lets her have some agency in it instead of having Pete dog her trying to get her to come back to the Warehouse (and he never once jeopardises their professional careers or security in an attempt to force his romantic feelings for Myka onto her). Myka is never subjected to any long montages of her half-naked as she dresses, nor is her go-to tactic when dealing with a male adversary to seduce them (in fact, she never does that; she subdues them through either intellect or pure martial ass-kicking, and female villains are dispensed of with a refreshing lack of hair-pulling or misogynistic slurs). And frankly, I think Pete needs saving by Myka more often than Myka needs anybody saving her. This is the same Myka, by the way, whose relationship with Helena Wells is marked by romantic undertones (which were later confirmed as canon, although infuriatingly enough never confirmed on the show itself).

This is how you write two professional agents, one male and one female, working together as partners. Chuck should take ****ing notes.

[Astrella]

I find that's a thread that runs through a lot of common media. The lowest common denomination is "pssh, women, amirite?" Only sometimes it's men or a different race or culture.

Hell. Look at the laugh track timing on Big Bang theory. It's a show about making fun of nerds and bashing the guy who's basically written as autistic. And we're supposed to relate to the poor, dumb, not nerd chick. Because smart folks, amirite? :smallyuk:

I sympathize with Penny cause she's one of the few non-awful people in the show...

[Serpentine]

I really liked Raj, until he overcame his social anxiety and inability to speak to women (drugs were involved, I believe) and turned out to be a complete and total douchebag.

[golentan]

Some characters in it have gotten better, others have gotten worse. Overall I find the show entertaining, if not a source of good role models.

Sooo...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/1413485089380_wps_8_PARIS_FRANCE_OCTOBER_16_T1.jpg

Apparently an anti-gay group released a pamphlet in Ireland asking if kids should be exposed to "the sounds of sodomy." Memers are having a field day.

[Lycunadari]

I haven't posted any selfies in a while, so after my sister said I look like some programmer from the 70s with just the glasses missing when I was wearing one of my mother’s old sweaters, I took these two pictures. :smallbiggrin:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/7576129bb16f764c76b8dc2c322e2232/tumblr_nhruvmd0oa1tltvv4o2_500.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/3163ce74b8a56974d0f8fb4ba6ee63a1/tumblr_nhruvmd0oa1tltvv4o1_500.jpg


Also, *hugs* and flowers to anyone who needs and/or wants them. :smallsmile:

– Juniper

[golentan]

Soooo jealous...

[Jormengand]

I haven't posted any selfies in a while, so after my sister said I look like some programmer from the 70s with just the glasses missing when I was wearing one of my mother’s old sweaters, I took these two pictures. :smallbiggrin:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/7576129bb16f764c76b8dc2c322e2232/tumblr_nhruvmd0oa1tltvv4o2_500.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/3163ce74b8a56974d0f8fb4ba6ee63a1/tumblr_nhruvmd0oa1tltvv4o1_500.jpg


Also, *hugs* and flowers to anyone who needs and/or wants them. :smallsmile:

– Juniper

You look cute. :smallredface:

[Anarion]

Big Bang Theory was initially hilarious for me because it was literally a show about my life for the first couple years. Like, I was studying physics in college for a while, my roommate was crazy OCD, I had another tall nerdy friend also into physics, a couple Indian friends and a couple girls who were humanities majors that we all hung out with. It was creepy but funny. Then it became kind of horrible and I don't really like now.



Sooo...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/1413485089380_wps_8_PARIS_FRANCE_OCTOBER_16_T1.jpg

Apparently an anti-gay group released a pamphlet in Ireland asking if kids should be exposed to "the sounds of sodomy." Memers are having a field day.

Ahahaha!


I haven't posted any selfies in a while, so after my sister said I look like some programmer from the 70s with just the glasses missing when I was wearing one of my mother’s old sweaters, I took these two pictures. :smallbiggrin:

http://40.media.tumblr.com/7576129bb16f764c76b8dc2c322e2232/tumblr_nhruvmd0oa1tltvv4o2_500.jpg

http://40.media.tumblr.com/3163ce74b8a56974d0f8fb4ba6ee63a1/tumblr_nhruvmd0oa1tltvv4o1_500.jpg


Also, *hugs* and flowers to anyone who needs and/or wants them. :smallsmile:

– Juniper

Cool glasses. :smallcool:

[Coidzor]

Some characters in it have gotten better, others have gotten worse. Overall I find the show entertaining, if not a source of good role models.

Sooo...

http://www.addictinginfo.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/1413485089380_wps_8_PARIS_FRANCE_OCTOBER_16_T1.jpg

Apparently an anti-gay group released a pamphlet in Ireland asking if kids should be exposed to "the sounds of sodomy." Memers are having a field day.

I. What. Are they worried about people listening to the audio portion of pornos or something? Some kind of Homosexual AgendaTM sodomy flash mob?

I swear, I wake up, have my internet cut off, get it back, and this is the first thing I see and it feels like I was just thawed from cryo-sleep only to find that society had taken some decidedly strange and unexpected turns in its social evolution since I'd been put on ice.

[golentan]

I. What. Are they worried about people listening to the audio portion of pornos or something? Some kind of Homosexual AgendaTM sodomy flash mob?

I swear, I wake up, have my internet cut off, get it back, and this is the first thing I see and it feels like I was just thawed from cryo-sleep only to find that society had taken some decidedly strange and unexpected turns in its social evolution since I'd been put on ice.

It's a pamphlet about the dangers of gay marriage and same sex couples adopting. Apparently they're worried about kids listening in on their parents going at it. I'm not sure how they expect that that would sound any different or be more traumatic than heterosexual romps between the sheets, or why they think the solution isn't better soundproofing for bedrooms, but there you have it.

Again, I'm choosing to focus on the memetic mutation of CD covers, musical scenes, and more that this is spawning.

[Absol197]

It's a pamphlet about the dangers of gay marriage and same sex couples adopting. Apparently they're worried about kids listening in on their parents going at it. I'm not sure how they expect that that would sound any different or be more traumatic than heterosexual romps between the sheets, or why they think the solution isn't better soundproofing for bedrooms, but there you have it.

Again, I'm choosing to focus on the memetic mutation of CD covers, musical scenes, and more that this is spawning.

Stupid people hurt my brain...Ow.

The meme picture is hilarious, though!

Also, my computer doesn't show me the pictures of Juniper :smallfrown: . I is sad...

[golentan]

SiuiS, did anything come of that writing group? Can I join?

[SiuiS]

I. What. Are they worried about people listening to the audio portion of pornos or something? Some kind of Homosexual AgendaTM sodomy flash mob?

I swear, I wake up, have my internet cut off, get it back, and this is the first thing I see and it feels like I was just thawed from cryo-sleep only to find that society had taken some decidedly strange and unexpected turns in its social evolution since I'd been put on ice.

That's why I think the Internet is a mixed bag for civil stuff. It's too easy to isolate away from the stupid. We're quarantined, but the stupid doesn't shrivel, it festers. Sometimes we get a few expulgent gouts of that infection when a blister gets too big.


Stupid people hurt my brain...Ow.

The meme picture is hilarious, though!

Also, my computer doesn't show me the pictures of Juniper :smallfrown: . I is sad...

I assumed it was a commentary on broke back mountain...


SiuiS, did anything come of that writing group? Can I join?

Ah, actually, this is my computer computer desk.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/Mobile%20Uploads/9786344D-BF85-470A-BD2B-4FD402C663EE.jpg

I'll get it done today. Yesterday's request for some free time landed us in a row so it's been slow going. I'm basically making excuses though. I'll put on my big girl panties today. Promise.

[Togath]

I may be unable to get stable internet for a while, just as a warning.
At best, it'll take a day... But it may very well take until next month.

[golentan]

I am herbally medicating myself for this sudden assault of disease. :smallfrown:

My knowledge of herbal remedies is something I've never been more grateful for.

I had my first appointment with my new therapist yesterday. One of the things we talked about was my love life. There has been positive motion on that I think (but I'm not sure? Other folks could answer that better than I). But after talking out some of my previous problems and insecurities I'm feeling more lovable.

Apart from, you know, this flu. I'm pretty sure this is stomach flu. Once I purge it from my body like the worthless impediment is I'll be fully lovable.

[Togath]

Ginger tea?
It helps with nausea for me.
I usually take a teabag or two of black tea, and add a little powdered ginger on top, stirring with the teabags once they've steeped.

[golentan]

Ginger tea?
It helps with nausea for me.
I usually take a teabag or two of black tea, and add a little powdered ginger on top, stirring with the teabags once they've steeped.

I just finished off a mug of brewed ginger tea. No tea.

[SiuiS]

Braz just realized all those times I gave her information in an interrogative tone and then stated at her expectantly I was asking questions, so I think we're on track for figuring out the whole meeting thing now. XD

Getting occasional bouts of jitters over the whole coming out thing. Also about the birthday in general. I do poorly at these functions. Especially as I'm a sucker for ritualizing things. <_<
Here is hoping it works. Right now I'm sorta freaked out about whether we can get a cake or not. First world problems, they say.

[golentan]

Braz just realized all those times I gave her information in an interrogative tone and then stated at her expectantly I was asking questions, so I think we're on track for figuring out the whole meeting thing now. XD

Getting occasional bouts of jitters over the whole coming out thing. Also about the birthday in general. I do poorly at these functions. Especially as I'm a sucker for ritualizing things. <_<
Here is hoping it works. Right now I'm sorta freaked out about whether we can get a cake or not. First world problems, they say.

I thought you were out and full time?

[SiuiS]

Nope! My family (that ic. Are about) are rather religious, and the very grosse summation of my best friend is "Christian angry biker martial artist whose girlfriend I stole", so I've been hesitant to be open without a guaranteed support network.

Also, transition means no having children. I think that's a large part of the providence behind Trouble showing up when she did. Sort of a 'now is when these things align and everyone gets what they want' sort of deal. I just also know without a firm date it'll never happen. Heck, I need knew glasses, new clothes, new shoes, and barely eat because there's always something more pressing than clothes, glasses or groceries. But waiting much longer will lead to bad things like psychotic breaks.

[golentan]

Nope! My family (that ic. Are about) are rather religious, and the very grosse summation of my best friend is "Christian angry biker martial artist whose girlfriend I stole", so I've been hesitant to be open without a guaranteed support network.

Also, transition means no having children. I think that's a large part of the providence behind Trouble showing up when she did. Sort of a 'now is when these things align and everyone gets what they want' sort of deal. I just also know without a firm date it'll never happen. Heck, I need knew glasses, new clothes, new shoes, and barely eat because there's always something more pressing than clothes, glasses or groceries. But waiting much longer will lead to bad things like psychotic breaks.

Well, best of luck with the coming out then. I knew you hadn't started hormones or anything before Braz got infected with your parasitic spawn, but somehow I thought you had taken steps shortly thereafter...

And, of course, we can talk about this stuff when we meet up! In the meantime, if you need support, I'm nearby and usually online, so...

[SiuiS]

Well, I have a group started/starting, but then I realized I don't know any of y'all. Golly, care to PM me or give outright some Facebook info? My shell is michalina, or best.changeling with a gmail domain for the email. :smallsmile:

[golentan]

Well, I have a group started/starting, but then I realized I don't know any of y'all. Golly, care to PM me or give outright some Facebook info? My shell is michalina, or best.changeling with a gmail domain for the email. :smallsmile:

Well, either I sent you a friend request or some random woman is about to be very confused.

[SiuiS]

Well, either I sent you a friend request or some random woman is about to be very confused.

The two are not mutually exclusive!

Moving forward with that now. I suppose Phee is adamant about her face book ban. Alas~

Need to get images going. Wonder if I could commission a generic romance novel cover?

[golentan]

Yay! If I don't write at least a chapter a week, feel free to slap me any time we meet up.

[Brazen Shield]

Sleep training sucks.

Crying offspring = sad mamas.

Oh. Hello thread. Long time no see.

Apparently Si is planing a coming out/birthday party? @.@

[SiuiS]

Sleep training sucks.

Crying offspring = sad mamas.

Yeah T~T



Apparently Si is planing a coming out/birthday party? @.@

D: I even asked you if we should do whiskey or tequila and if we do store bought or homemade cake!

You're teasing me aren't you <_<?

[Astrella]

So a trans woman got stabbed by a guy just for being trans. (http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Assailant-stabs-transgender-woman-on-Muni-bus-5993570.php#photo-7348588) Add to that several more suicides recently and it's just, ugh, why is the world so harsh on us...

[Absol197]

The two are not mutually exclusive!

Moving forward with that now. I suppose Phee is adamant about her face book ban. Alas~

Need to get images going. Wonder if I could commission a generic romance novel cover?

I might be persuaded to get an account for this purpose...Maybe. We'll have to see :smallwink:


So a trans woman got stabbed by a guy just for being trans. (http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Assailant-stabs-transgender-woman-on-Muni-bus-5993570.php#photo-7348588) Add to that several more suicides recently and it's just, ugh, why is the world so harsh on us...

:smallfrown::smallfrown: I know, honey, I know. It's not fair and it's not right, and I wish it could be fixed. But...I don't know. We just have to work at it. Every person we show our humanity to makes it one person closer to putting and end to crap like that.

*Offers hugs*


~Phoenix~

[godshawk]

I'm still here. Amazingly.



Multiple friends want(ed) to commit suicide.
Being peoples' therapist isn't fun.
Father went to the hospital recently with potential heart issues.
Suicide is a thing I've been imagining.
Mother out of the country.
Most likely gonna go for a double major when I start college.

[SiuiS]

:smallfrown::smallfrown: I know, honey, I know. It's not fair and it's not right, and I wish it could be fixed. But...I don't know. We just have to work at it. Every person we show our humanity to makes it one person closer to putting and end to crap like that.

*Offers hugs*

There is some solace to be found, with enough squinting, in knowing this isn't a trans-specific issue. Some people are just evil. They hate everything. If it wasn't for being trans, it would be someone else that night for the wrong color shoes.

[golentan]

Sleep training sucks.

Crying offspring = sad mamas.

Oh. Hello thread. Long time no see.

Apparently Si is planing a coming out/birthday party? @.@

I've considered (when the time comes) adopting a toddler to dodge my dadly responsibilities to wake up every 2 hours to make sure the baby is happy, healthy, fed, burped, and swaddled.

[SiuiS]

Don't. No sleep makes work suck, but I wouldn't trade those times in the night for the world.

On a sea of hushed darkness in a room defined by the limits of your night vision, there is only the half asleep knowledge of yourself and another heartbeat, another warmth. It grabs you, tiny hands around one finger or bit of cloth or lock of hair, and and drinks you in as sure as any formula half-muddled and half-stirred together in a daze a room away. These moments build the bricks of an eternity. They are the walls of another's mind and soul made of your own mind and soul. It is a union and communion that beats anything adults have since conceived.

[Grytorm]

I'm glad that the woman survived. Scared but safe.

Also my therapist told me to hug people more. Something along those lines.

[golentan]

Yeah, but it takes me 2 hours to get to sleep at all...

I suppose if I'm a single dad and can get a few months paternity leave I would unambiguously prefer to spend that time with my baby.

[Lentrax]

uggh. Making formula in the middle of the night.

I do not miss those days... However, I think I have gotten less sleep after everyone has gotten through the waking in the middle of the night phase.

[golentan]

Apparently russia is banning folks from driving if they are "sexually disordered."

[Lentrax]

"Sexually disordered?"

Is that some new fangled way of saying, "I can't get any?"

[SiuiS]

Formula is easy once I'm upright. Just turn on hot water. Fill enough (sometimes I pour out some water). Dump 3 scoops into bottle. Cap. Agitate. Stick in mouth of grubling. Possibly loosen seal so more air-formula transference can occur.

It's the jumping on me @ 6 am wide awake when sleep came to me around 2 am that I don't like D:

[golentan]

"Sexually disordered?"

Is that some new fangled way of saying, "I can't get any?"

It's another way of saying trans people, any sort of fetish, exhibitionists, voyeurs, I'd bet homo/bisexuality but it wasn't specifically called out in the article I was linked to.

[Lentrax]

It's another way of saying trans people, any sort of fetish, exhibitionists, voyeurs, I'd bet homo/bisexuality but it wasn't specifically called out in the article I was linked to.

I know. I just don't do sarcasm well...

[golentan]

Well, judging from what I know of sexual preferences, they just banned somewhere between 40 and 80% of the population from the roads, so... they may have gone too far and may realize it sooner than they might think.

[SowZ]

Well, judging from what I know of sexual preferences, they just banned somewhere between 40 and 80% of the population from the roads, so... they may have gone too far and may realize it sooner than they might think.

Or it's applied arbitrarily, rarely enforced except as a weapon to threaten people.

[Brazen Shield]

Formula is easy once I'm upright. Just turn on hot water. Fill enough (sometimes I pour out some water). Dump 3 scoops into bottle. Cap. Agitate. Stick in mouth of grubling. Possibly loosen seal so more air-formula transference can occur.

It's the jumping on me @ 6 am wide awake when sleep came to me around 2 am that I don't like D:

Pfft. You're lucky I'm not exclusively breastfeeding her anymore. Remember having to heat up FROZEN milk when I wasn't around? XD


And ... Wth do they mean they're banning people from driving that are sexually disordered?
What does that even /mean/? And why does it have anything to do with driving?

[Lentrax]

Another question about the sexual disorders in Russia.

Do they count those that just can't get it up anymore? Because I am pretty sure that ED qualifies as a disorder...

[golentan]

Apparently they're also including a bunch of mental illnesses that have no effect on ability to drive, like gambling addiction. Here's a bbc article on it. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30735673)

[SiuiS]

Pfft. You're lucky I'm not exclusively breastfeeding her anymore. Remember having to heat up FROZEN milk when I wasn't around? XD


That wasn't so bad. It was when I slept through her warning whimpers and she woke up hungry that sucked, but that was my faux pas.


Apparently they're also including a bunch of mental illnesses that have no effect on ability to drive, like gambling addiction. Here's a bbc article on it. (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-30735673)

So what I'm hearing is Russia wants to be a nation without drivers?

Although, honestly. Jokes aside, the kind of cold, calculating and cunning minds behind this sort of thing aren't humorous. They're terrifying. That so many people can have their minds bent to agree to a thing or are so powerless as to be unable or unwilling to resists is... Wow.

[Astrella]

I love how people in family talk to me about how supportive they are and then just constantly call me he. (Not a trying to say she and make mistakes, just plain saying he all the time without hesitation.)

[Heliomance]

Apparently russia is banning folks from driving if they are "sexually disordered."

I was just about to come and comment on that. What the actual hell, Russia?

[Comrade]

I love how people in family talk to me about how supportive they are and then just constantly call me he. (Not a trying to say she and make mistakes, just plain saying he all the time without hesitation.)

Oh, this is a woe I know only all too well. Always quick to assure you that they're totally supportive, so fond of dismissing anything you have to say that might imply they aren't 100% supporting you, but totally unwilling to make even that slight adjustment. Really makes my blood boil.

[Heliomance]

Hey, did I ever mention that the game Warframe has nonbinary protagonists?

Eh, I'm not sure it's possible to say that. The fluff on exactly who or what the Tenno and the Warframes are makes little sense and is self-contradictory all over the place. I don't think it's possible to make sensible claims about a thing like gender identity, and I'm fairly sure the idea hasn't even crossed the devs' minds.

[golentan]

So why is it that fictional universes, including those based on a time where oppression ran rampant, usually have better gender equality and the like than modern times?

[Lord Raziere]

because fiction is a distorted mirror of ourselves. we find our ideals in them, because those are the ideals that reside in ourselves. this is not bad, for it is only in this distorted mirror that we can find who we are.

[Anarion]

Russia :smallsigh:


I love how people in family talk to me about how supportive they are and then just constantly call me he. (Not a trying to say she and make mistakes, just plain saying he all the time without hesitation.)

I'm sorry to hear that. It sucks when people say "support" but they don't understand what real support looks like. Very jarring.

If it's a battle you want to pick, you could remind them of your preferred pronouns, but you've talked about this for a while, so I don't know if that would do any good.


So why is it that fictional universes, including those based on a time where oppression ran rampant, usually have better gender equality and the like than modern times?

Imagine you sit down to write a piece of fiction. Whenever a character says something or does something you sit there, you mull on it, you consider the phrasing, whether it's in character for them. You read it over once for tone, again for grammar.

That makes it very hard to write sonething subtly prejudiced. You can write a racist or misogynist character easily enough if you want it to be blatant, but there's way more consideration put into writing a world than there is to most of our day to day activities. It's that kind of engaged thought and consideration that tends to produce our ideals and avoid insulting or belittling people.

[Coidzor]

I've considered (when the time comes) adopting a toddler to dodge my dadly responsibilities to wake up every 2 hours to make sure the baby is happy, healthy, fed, burped, and swaddled.

I suppose the children who *aren't* blank slate, immobile meat sacks are the ones that most need adoption, IIRC, so there's something to be said for not just adopting the kind of infant that would sell like hotcakes regardless of whether one personally would want them.


So why is it that fictional universes, including those based on a time where oppression ran rampant, usually have better gender equality and the like than modern times?

Even the gaming dudebros who only use female characters to get some kind of low-grade softcorn pornographic/ogling material out of them don't want to be penalized for their choices.

It's awkward to be the guy to actually record their prejudice for posterity, since writers and writing is generally held up to a bit more scrutiny than general popular or poltiical culture, and there's plenty of cases where a writer has accused of being as racist/sexist/classist as their work simply for being accurate in their portrayal of the time they were writing in.

I mean, think of how many people have declared that Mark Twain's books should never be read by anyone because of Huck Finn.

So that's two reasons that come to mind while waking up. I'm sure someone else who is awake can postulate something else.


Although "void-corrupted cyborg war veterans from something that happened hundreds of years ago who use tiny nanomachines to rip into their flesh and fit their bodies to various high-powered suits of combined biologically engineered and conventional armor and who never say a word out of turn but seemingly have no problem transitioning from a suit with boobs to a suit that looks like a walking tank while still using whatever preferred pronouns they've got and back" seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

Aside from the glaringly obvious "the devs are crazy" answer that Tamsin gave, there's still the existential question as to whether being gender binary and entering a neuter machine chassis in order to be converted into a warbot makes someone nonbinary or if it's one of those cases where only someone who is nonbinary would ever agree to undergo the procedure.

That just seems like a kettle of fish that's not going to be fun for anyone to try to muddle their way through, but then, I've never really been all that adroit at dealing with your conundrums of philosophy. I prefer practical problems.

[noparlpf]

I wonder a lot of the time whether a cisgender person moved into a different-sex body would experience any dysphoria or whether they would be okay with it.

...I volunteer for the study if it means I get a cool robot body.

[Anarion]

I wonder a lot of the time whether a cisgender person moved into a different-sex body would experience any dysphoria or whether they would be okay with it.

...I volunteer for the study if it means I get a cool robot body.

It's all yours. I always think of Xykon and coffee when I see those types of things. Also, I suspect the answer to your question is yes, based purely on my own imaginings of switching to another body. And I'm not even that wedded to my gender identity, but it still feels not right for me when I try to picture it.

[Heliomance]

Just putting this here, then not gonna respond to anything after it because arguing over this is really stupid when a lot of people here probably don't even play the game or its prequel. Especially not since it was in closed beta.


Tenno aren't warbots. In fact, shooting even the more mechanical-looking parts of some Warframes results in blood coming out and weird twitching. As for who would ever agree to undergo the procedure, none of them really got a choice after coming back from a pocket dimension that turned them into walking demigods. The people who used to be their kin were like "nah" and forced them into the traditional warrior slave race position to fight wars for them. Then the Tenno killed them all, 'cause forcing people into slavery to fight for you apparently causes feelings of resentment.
Oh, and the chassis very rarely look gender neutral, nor would you need to be neutered to fit into them. (It's implied a lot of them have, uh, places for certain things to extend out of and/or retreat into.) A lot of them have glaringly obvious feminine or masculine aesthetic traits, which the most common theory goes are based off of the original wearers' personal preferences (which makes sense because the stuff the 'frames are made out of can change shapes to an extent if you're capable of bending them to your will). The reason they stay that way with new users is because the power conduits and balances are so fine-tuned that modifying the armor to fit the person inside would cause weird glitches or physical errors. Like someone blowing himself up instead of throwing a fireball as intended.
Also keep in mind that I never said ALL Tenno are nonbinary, although considering how their culture works it wouldn't surprise me. Also also keep in mind that you can be nonbinary and still use male or female pronouns.
Where on earth did you find all that fluff? I wasn't aware that much fluff existed!

The thing is, the warframes themselves are clearly at least partially sentient - otherwise the Valkyr wouldn't have gone insane from being tortured, for example.

[Jaycemonde]

Forget it.

[SiuiS]

It's all yours. I always think of Xykon and coffee when I see those types of things. Also, I suspect the answer to your question is yes, based purely on my own imaginings of switching to another body. And I'm not even that wedded to my gender identity, but it still feels not right for me when I try to picture it.

Indeed. Shoot, I lost a centimeter of finger length and it sometimes leaves me a psychopath for hours at a stretch.


Forget it.

Actually, I've been collecting similar stuff. Game called chain chronicle for mobile platforms.

http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/examples/6907ED5C-955E-469E-AC8E-9AB57E295C75_1.png

This is, as you can see, charming young man amille. He shows up and gets into a flirtationship with the Hero. The end of the acquisition Quest has no change from the hero (who was able to actively flirt) and states that Amille, who's definitely genderqueer or had several confused writers, normally likes women but boy does the hero make them glad to bein a sexy feminine outfit.


*


http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/Mobile%20Uploads/877CA636-0AEE-4E74-83EA-241DAE3DB7BA.png

This is Kai, the traveling holy knight. Kai is known among at his troops for his manliness, his nhandsomeness, and how much women throw themselves at him.



http://i1229.photobucket.com/albums/ee468/WizardPony/Mobile%20Uploads/1ACAC889-0A5A-4C17-AE6F-944369EFEABC.jpg

Kai also has a rack that leaves me, frankly, pretty damn jealous.


*



I can't get pictures without scouring a poorly put together wiki, but there is also the manly leader of the sorcerers army, who is supposed to be explicitly implicitly trans (I blame it on the lack of clear translation from whichever Chinese dialect this one is from). There's another man somewhere with female pronouns (so lack of direction leads me to believe she's female, natch) but that's from a part of the game I haven't unlocked and like I said, terrible wiki.

Ah, here we are. Febrya, commander in the sorcerer's army.

http://chainchronicle.gumi.sg/wiki/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/cha_2d_card_02013.png

From said wiki,
A magic warrior of the Sorcerer’s Army associated with the Sage’s Tower. He is a “sealer,” meaning his body is covered in magic seals, and he can use magic freely even in melee combat. He was raised only to fight, something he hates, but at the same time embraced a longing to become stronger.
(http://chainchronicle.gumi.sg/wiki/sorcerers-army-captain-febrya/)



I thought that was pretty neat. :3

[noparlpf]

Weird and potentially uncomfortable question that came up from a show I'm watching:
So...imagine you could change the past so you were born cis instead of trans. Like, a trans woman would be born a cis woman instead. Would you do it?

And then imagine you find out that by changing the past, somehow one of your best friends is going to die because the writers like messing with everybody. Also, it's not a guarantee that your change is what doomed your friend, because some morons have been messing around with time travel and it might be one of several other changes that did it. Do you un-change the past and be born trans if it means your friend doesn't die?

[Astrella]

I'm not sure... I often wish that I was cis but like, having been born afab would mean my life would have gone differently and I wouldn't have met some of my treasured friends.

Second one, would definitely revert to being trans again.

[Coidzor]

Weird and potentially uncomfortable question that came up from a show I'm watching:
So...imagine you could change the past so you were born cis instead of trans. Like, a trans woman would be born a cis woman instead. Would you do it?

And then imagine you find out that by changing the past, somehow one of your best friends is going to die because the writers like messing with everybody. Also, it's not a guarantee that your change is what doomed your friend, because some morons have been messing around with time travel and it might be one of several other changes that did it. Do you un-change the past and be born trans if it means your friend doesn't die?

This is exactly why Time Travel must be banned now and forevermore. Can't have any yahoo with a time yacht mucking up the timestream for the rest of us, especially if they're futzing with other time travelers's branching alternate realities. (http://qntm.org/camtime)

More to the point, how on earth does that work. Are they traveling from a time where being trans can be cured in utero and using it on their pregnant mother/fetal self? Are they somehow going back in time and selecting different gametes but ensuring that their consciousness will inhabit the resulting embryo instead of another one resulting from that particular combination of genes and fetal development?

Anyway, the first thing in order is to get rid of the other morons who've changed the timeline such that you actually can isolate your actions down to a vacuumn. Of course, there are some problems with being the "dies by deletion from time" to someone's "he who lives by deletion from time," seeing as how the process involves willfully deleting other people from time in order to prevent them from deleting others from time.

[SiuiS]

Weird and potentially uncomfortable question that came up from a show I'm watching:
So...imagine you could change the past so you were born cis instead of trans. Like, a trans woman would be born a cis woman instead. Would you do it?

And then imagine you find out that by changing the past, somehow one of your best friends is going to die because the writers like messing with everybody. Also, it's not a guarantee that your change is what doomed your friend, because some morons have been messing around with time travel and it might be one of several other changes that did it. Do you un-change the past and be born trans if it means your friend doesn't die?

Two separate problems. The first one: no. I'm religious enough to accept they slotted me into meat with certain gibblies for certain reasons. I'll file a complaint before I reincarnate, but that's it.

Second, eh. I'm not stable enough morally to figure out my stance on that. Heck, sometimes I espouse a strict dystopian tyrrany, other times anarchism and communes. Who knows?im all over the place.

[Heliomance]

Forget it.

No, seriously. Where did you find all that fluff? I'm interested.

[noparlpf]

This is exactly why Time Travel must be banned now and forevermore. Can't have any yahoo with a time yacht mucking up the timestream for the rest of us, especially if they're futzing with other time travelers's branching alternate realities. (http://qntm.org/camtime)

More to the point, how on earth does that work. Are they traveling from a time where being trans can be cured in utero and using it on their pregnant mother/fetal self? Are they somehow going back in time and selecting different gametes but ensuring that their consciousness will inhabit the resulting embryo instead of another one resulting from that particular combination of genes and fetal development?

Anyway, the first thing in order is to get rid of the other morons who've changed the timeline such that you actually can isolate your actions down to a vacuumn. Of course, there are some problems with being the "dies by deletion from time" to someone's "he who lives by deletion from time," seeing as how the process involves willfully deleting other people from time in order to prevent them from deleting others from time.

Well...it was kind of magic. Apparently telling your mum to eat more vegetables while pregnant means her baby (you) will (would have had been, in the past future, or something, man what are we gonna do with grammar when time travel is real) be a girl. XD

Anyway, the morons who mucked up the time stream were mostly past-MC and the rest of the group so...

[Coidzor]

Well...it was kind of magic. Apparently telling your mum to eat more vegetables while pregnant means her baby (you) will (would have had been, in the past future, or something, man what are we gonna do with grammar when time travel is real) be a girl. XD

Anyway, the morons who mucked up the time stream were mostly past-MC and the rest of the group so...

Wow. That's so bad. What show is this?

[Icewraith]

This is exactly why Time Travel must be banned now and forevermore. Can't have any yahoo with a time yacht mucking up the timestream for the rest of us, especially if they're futzing with other time travelers's branching alternate realities. (http://qntm.org/camtime)

More to the point, how on earth does that work. Are they traveling from a time where being trans can be cured in utero and using it on their pregnant mother/fetal self? Are they somehow going back in time and selecting different gametes but ensuring that their consciousness will inhabit the resulting embryo instead of another one resulting from that particular combination of genes and fetal development?

Anyway, the first thing in order is to get rid of the other morons who've changed the timeline such that you actually can isolate your actions down to a vacuumn. Of course, there are some problems with being the "dies by deletion from time" to someone's "he who lives by deletion from time," seeing as how the process involves willfully deleting other people from time in order to prevent them from deleting others from time.

If the universe is such that you're constrained to a single timeline, then any mucking about you do in the past changes things so that your present happens the way it already did. In theory, an all-knowing being that travels back to the past would lose freedom of action, for everyone else there's enough of an error factor between your knowledge of past events and what actually happened to spookily result in you not changing your present without you ever taking an action during your time travel that you think is unreasonable.

If the universe consists of multiple, simultaneously existing timelines containing all possible events, then you never "change" anything, you merely determine which universe you happen to occupy, which you already can do in a large part without time travel. For every single timeline in which you escape whatever unpleasant circumstances that drove you to time travel in the first place and live happily ever after, there are others where you screw it up by varying degrees. There are also timelines where you live a privileged life until several dozen time traveling bastard versions of you pop in and try to kill you and take your place. There are lines where they succeed, and lines where they fail.

The good news is that no matter how crappy your current circumstances are, if the universe is set up like this then there are ALWAYS timelines where things improve dramatically and stay that way. There are also timelines where you fail horribly or you're caught in seemingly random catastrophes outside your control. However, even with all the random variables, you have a large degree of control over which universe you end up in, whether or not you make conscious choices or have access to a time traveling device. No other version of you is ever going to have the exact same time path that you do.

[SiuiS]

Logical process that negates a premise is not really a valid answer to a Socratic discourse.

Or well, it is. But it's going to come across as either patronizing, snide or unsporting depending. You need to have established your character and gotten tacit approval prior for that to stick without sticking in craws. That's something I run into frequently, actually, the a majority of a thread know me but the remainder just think I'm a jerk.

[golentan]

Wow. That's so bad. What show is this?

I'm guessing it's a movie I've been seeing ads for that make me uninterested in watching the movie, Project Almanac.

[noparlpf]

I'm guessing it's a movie I've been seeing ads for that make me uninterested in watching the movie, Project Almanac.

I've never even heard of that. It's an anime (based on a visual novel) called Steins;Gate.