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View Full Version : Pathfinder (Path of War) Tried my hand at making a new initiator class.



Roxxy
2015-01-02, 08:31 PM
Is it what happens when a wilderness Ranger breeds with an urban Ranger, and the kid reads a ton of books about history, culture, travel, and geography, learns a bunch of martial maneuvers, and goes a' wandering? Why, yes. Yes it is.

There it is. (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Fsxg0SrQNJSVrAZiW2OB5F-MvFH2lLpDGKezyWK_R6I/edit?usp=sharing) Is it underpowered? Overpowered? Needs adjustment?

TheEmperor
2015-01-04, 11:56 PM
Honestly, I'm really, really bad at this sort of stuff, but I have an issue with the skills.
All of them?
That seems like an incredible amount of class skills, and add that to a Martial Initiator... Well, I fear I wouldn't be allowed to use it any non high OP game.

I mean, I know it's important to the idea, but it just seems too much, mechanically

Fallenreality
2015-01-05, 11:51 PM
This seems like you were trying to make an ultimate skill monkey. You're giving something all the skills, and then making every useful skill based off of int (Except for UMD but there's already the Pragmatic Activator trait for that). While this doesn't seem to have as much abuse as the Factotum from 3.5, it does seem heavily easy enough to abuse it.


I'm also not really getting where Ranger comes into play here. This has nothing in common with the base ranger. Compared to say... Ninjas and rogues. The ninja really feels rogueish, but with it's own spin. You're a class with already good skills/lvl, with an int base, and the power to make all useful skills int based. It just feels like too much.

Keledrath
2015-01-07, 07:04 PM
Okay, a few points.
1. This is a new initiator class, not an alternate for ranger. It's different enough. The rest of my comments are about making it more of a Ranger Alternate.
2. Give it a proper skill list. There are a lot of things that wouldn't fit with a ranger-style theme. Appraise, some Knowledges, most social skills, and Disable Device.
3. Why is it Int based instead of Wis based? This is a significant departure from Ranger.

Solarix
2015-01-09, 11:11 AM
Here are my thoughts:


It's not a bad thing to have a class skill list. All class skills is should be reserved only to things like Factotum or Human Paragon. Since your concept is more of a "cultured explorer", a mixed skill list of ranger and bard would do ok.
HD 10 and full BAB with 2 good saves is a bit of an stretch with 6 skill points, but it can be ok. You could lower it to 4 due to the class depending so much on INT. Also, nothing wrong with using d8 and medium BAB, this class is more skill focused anyways.
All simple and martial weapon should be ok, OR specific weapon list with whip included should be ok. Not sure about the flavor matching using a shield though.
The maneuver recharge mechanic it's a bit on the strong side...I would prefer them having a class feature that allows them to do the perception + full defense + knowledge.
Well Read is an ok ability, close to making the class SAD.
Track is ok.
Rover's Focus is a decent substitution to Favored Enemy.
Participant Observer is again closing the gap to SAD, with the strong bonus of untrained checks...quite a bit on the strong side.
Esoteric Learning is ok, a lot of them along the way though.
Bonus Feat is a no-no. I would suggest replacing it with class features with small bonuses that can be selected. Also, make it a bit periodic instead of spamming it on "dead levels".
Knowledge of the Brain is, well again, SAD.
Evasion is ok at the level it is earned.
Woodland Stride is ok, although a bit delayed.
Improved Evasion is ok
Intense Focus is a good ability, although for a level cap it's a bit underwhelming.



Final thoughts
The class is okay-ish, a bit on the strong side due to making the class SAD and using maneuvers for combat. It needs a bit of polishing, but it's a really decent idea.

Roxxy
2015-01-10, 05:15 PM
Okay, a few points.
1. This is a new initiator class, not an alternate for ranger. It's different enough. The rest of my comments are about making it more of a Ranger Alternate.
2. Give it a proper skill list. There are a lot of things that wouldn't fit with a ranger-style theme. Appraise, some Knowledges, most social skills, and Disable Device.
3. Why is it Int based instead of Wis based? This is a significant departure from Ranger.It may be best to drop the alternate class bit, yes. If I gave it a skill list, it would probably be:

Acrobatics
Appraise
Bluff
Climb
Craft
Diplomacy
Disable Device
Escape Artist
Handle Animal
Heal
Intimidate
Knowledge (Any)
Linguistics
Perception
Perform
Profession
Ride
Sense Motive
Sleight of Hand
Stealth
Survival
Swim
Use Magic Device

It is Int based because the concept of the class comes from the idea of the gentleman explorer, quite well read on a great variety of subjects, out to see all the interesting cities and dazzling wilds and meet all the interesting people (whether to study, help, or exploit them depends greatly on the individual), or perhaps serving as a daring military officer or government agent carrying out important missions in exotic locales. I imagine them as having a fair amount of formal education, possibly possessing some degree of social status, and having more in common with Allan Quartermain, Captain Nemo, or Indiana Jones (though the Indy connection is somewhat stretched) than with Aragorn. I think I did a bad job of outlining that flavor.


Here are my thoughts:


It's not a bad thing to have a class skill list. All class skills is should be reserved only to things like Factotum or Human Paragon. Since your concept is more of a "cultured explorer", a mixed skill list of ranger and bard would do ok.
HD 10 and full BAB with 2 good saves is a bit of an stretch with 6 skill points, but it can be ok. You could lower it to 4 due to the class depending so much on INT. Also, nothing wrong with using d8 and medium BAB, this class is more skill focused anyways.
All simple and martial weapon should be ok, OR specific weapon list with whip included should be ok. Not sure about the flavor matching using a shield though.
The maneuver recharge mechanic it's a bit on the strong side...I would prefer them having a class feature that allows them to do the perception + full defense + knowledge.
Well Read is an ok ability, close to making the class SAD.
Track is ok.
Rover's Focus is a decent substitution to Favored Enemy.
Participant Observer is again closing the gap to SAD, with the strong bonus of untrained checks...quite a bit on the strong side.
Esoteric Learning is ok, a lot of them along the way though.
Bonus Feat is a no-no. I would suggest replacing it with class features with small bonuses that can be selected. Also, make it a bit periodic instead of spamming it on "dead levels".
Knowledge of the Brain is, well again, SAD.
Evasion is ok at the level it is earned.
Woodland Stride is ok, although a bit delayed.
Improved Evasion is ok
Intense Focus is a good ability, although for a level cap it's a bit underwhelming.



Final thoughts
The class is okay-ish, a bit on the strong side due to making the class SAD and using maneuvers for combat. It needs a bit of polishing, but it's a really decent idea.
Thanks. I'll think on these. One thing I can say now is that I am more likely to reduce the hit die or change the mechanic for regaining maneuvers than to reduce skill points or BAB, though I'm not too opposed to dropping the alternate class bit or giving it a skill list. I could get behind dropping shield proficiency, but I wanted it to have all simple and martial, and once I wrote Archaeologist in the description of the class, whip proficiency was pretty much a requirement.

Keledrath
2015-01-10, 05:24 PM
Maybe make the skill list: Pick X skills. These skills are class skills.

That, or give them something like the Human Racial feat Improvisation (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/racial-feats/improvisation-human). Call it "Experienced" or something like that.