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Olethros
2007-03-31, 06:54 PM
According to RAW a whip doesnt threaten squares within it's 15' reach, can attack adjasent foes, and provokes attacks of oppurtunity as if it were a ranged weapon.

This sounds to me as if the whip is best discribed as a thrown(ranged) weapon with a maximun range of 15'and no range incriment that never actually leaves the hand and can trip/disarm. As such, is seams like it should incure the standard -4 penelty for "shooting" into melee, but that "archery" feets coul apply to it.

I started thinking about this when a player of mine wanded to use a whip (technically whip dager from Arms and Equipment) as a primary weapon.

What do you think? Am I just reading way to much into the rules? How can I advise my player to make best use of her weapon choice (and please don't disuade from using a whip entierly)?

Ramza00
2007-03-31, 07:25 PM
You are reading way too much into the rules. You are reading things into the rules that don't exist.

Whip isn't typical melee, nor is it a ranged weapon. Furthermore the whip is a horrible weapon honestly, you doing -4 penalty to it further makes it even more sucky.

Toliudar
2007-03-31, 07:55 PM
Yeah, 3.0 tried to describe the whip as a missile weapon that never left the hand. I hated working with the mechanics of it. The 3.5 version is still pretty sucky, and certainly doesn't need the nerfing you're describing.

Olethros
2007-03-31, 08:00 PM
so a spiked chain can be used to make AO's but a whip can't, the only difference I see between them is that the chain does more damage, doesn't provoke an attack of oppurtunity, and the whip is 5' longer. Would it be to powerfull to give a 15' reach wepon threatening capabilities?

Fawsto
2007-03-31, 11:16 PM
The only way you can make a whip work is using a Dagger Whip with the Lasher PrC from Sword and Fist. Than you have an at least competitive weapon (competitive in terms with the other low damage weapons.

The trick of the whip is that it is a functional weapon. It has far more uses out of the combat grounds than a sword, for example. But again, only if you are wiling to get the Lasher PrC.

Bears With Lasers
2007-03-31, 11:19 PM
Would it be to powerfull to give a 15' reach wepon threatening capabilities?


I dunno. Would (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#improvedTrip) it (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#standStill)?

the_tick_rules
2007-04-01, 03:06 PM
the whip is best used as a disarming and tripping weapon. as our dm proved to us with great effect. imaging being disarmed and then tripped and standing up would provoke opportunities from the 2 greataxe wielding barbarians who are also acting as a screen for him. he felt a desire to prove whips weren't useless, and so he did.

argentsaber
2007-04-01, 03:24 PM
slightly off topic, but how does size affect a whip's reach? Thinking of a shrunken gnome/halfling that would be tiny... or similar ideas.

Lemur
2007-04-01, 03:30 PM
slightly off topic, but how does size affect a whip's reach? Thinking of a shrunken gnome/halfling that would be tiny... or similar ideas.

To my understanding, the whip's reach isn't affected by size change, but tiny creatures typically have 0 ft. reach. This would make the whip's effective reach 10 ft. in the hands of a Tiny sized creature.

Diggorian
2007-04-01, 03:48 PM
When in doubt, houserule. :smallbiggrin:

We've changed the whip and spiked chain rules to this:

Amend the PHB entry to include the following:
When using a whip [or spiked chain], a character threatens as if using a reach weapon (i.e. all squares within reach, except for immediately adjacent squares). Unlike other reach weapons, a whip wielder can attack into adjacent squares, however, he provokes an attack of opportunity as if using a ranged weapon.

This makes the whip consistent with our favorite fictional whip wielder, Dr. Indiana Jones.

Aximili
2007-04-01, 09:29 PM
Or just make a feat that allows you to threaten out to 10' and not provoke AoO as if you were ranged attacking. (Not that it would make Whips Mechanically viable)

Talya
2007-04-01, 10:07 PM
To my understanding, the whip's reach isn't affected by size change, but tiny creatures typically have 0 ft. reach. This would make the whip's effective reach 10 ft. in the hands of a Tiny sized creature.

This interpretation is also backed up by the reach of a large sized Balor using it's fire whip being 20'.

Kel_Arath
2007-04-01, 11:16 PM
yes you would take the -4 for whipping into melee. think of how it works, its not just a straight stab like a spear, or a precise slash with a sword. it... whips, so its alot harder to make sure you dont hit your teamate

Snaeferu
2007-04-02, 05:27 AM
assuming you have sufficient skill to trip and disarm with a whip at 15 feet range, you probably donít need to worry about hitting friendly targets overmuch :smallbiggrin: