Officer of the Crown--need ideas WIP

[johnbragg]

Setting would be a low-level campaign, an E6-type setting. Figure 75% of civilians are level 1, 24% level 2; 50% of adventurer-type classes level 1, 38% level 2, 10% level 3.

"Officer of the Crown" would be a set of abilities (template? bonus level?) that would allow a non-caster to fill the role of justice-of-the-peace, sheriff, fireman, EMT, what else? He's a leader of the community, a quick-response force for minor emergencies, he's the local law enforcement, he's also the local judge. His role is not to win the bar fight, it's to stop the bar fight.

Typical Officer of the Crown would be an Expert 2-Officer 1, Aristocrat 1-Officer 1, Fighter 1-Officer 1. No reason you couldn't have clerics or adepts or wizards or bards be given the status, but I want to focus on what spells or SLAs you give the non-caster to do the job. He's not powerful, he just has a few tools he can use to solve the problem, or at least manage the problem until the specialists (clerics, town guards, etc) get there.

Inspirations: Granny Weathervax, Commander Vimes, Sheriff Andy Taylor, firemen, EMTs, country doctors, Lassie.

There are a couple of different roles that don't always overlap--First Responder ("Come quick Mr Jenkins!"), Minor Judge, and Bar-Fight-Bouncer.

First REsponder: Something's on fire, a cow broke an ankle in the field, a tree fell on Henderson, Mrs Henderson suddenly went into labor and the midwife's in the next town, etc

Minor Judge: hearing minor cases in the local tavern or church building or the judge's parlor

Bar-Fight-Bouncer: Shows up and calms everything down.

[johnbragg]

Spells/SLAs Current Draft

Calm Animals
Calm Emotions
Create Water
Cure Minor Wounds
Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos
Detect Magic
Expeditious Retreat
Endure Elements
Protection from Evil/Good/Law/Chaos

[johnbragg]

Notepad for discussion of spells to include/exclude

Command: One target for one round, so what's the point? Command is usually used to set up a surrender or an attack vs prone, so what does it do that Calm Emotions doesn't?

Comprehend Languages: More power than I think the "first responder" part of the class needs. If there's a foreigner in the capital city who doesn't speak the language, that's primarily the foregiener's problem.

Create Water: Nothing says "first responder" like putting out a fire.

Cure Minor Wounds: Except maybe patching up a patient until the real doctors get there.

Cure Light Wounds no, we're not replacing the town clerics, adepts and druids.

Detect Evil/Good/Law/Chaos: On the one hand, why not. On the other hand, what's the point? Anything that pings is going to make mincemeat of a 2nd-3rd level NPC anyhow.

Detect Magic Much more useful in appraising a situation.

Expeditious Retreat: Can't be "first repsonder" if you aren't the first to get there to help

Endure Elements: A little more situational. I'm thinking that it gets used when Timmy fell through the ice and the Officer uses Endure Elements to keep him from getting frostbite, or on a burn victim to salve the burns. RAW doesn't say it can do that, but I don't think there are any RAW for frostbite or burn damage anyway besides HP.

Floating Disk: One the one hand, seems like a great way to get a patient to the clerics. On the other hand, it can only carry 100 pounds, and if the patient can't walk or be carried, then you should probably just bring the clerics to them.

Longstrider Duration is better than EXpeditious Retreat if you're running to the next town, but get a horse. (Is there a version that works on a mount?)

Protection from EVil/Good/Law/Chaos: A little OP for the first responder, but I'm thinking about the "blocks possession" element.

REmove Fear Maybe, or does Calm EMotions do just as well?

Zone of Truth Will save makes it sort of pointless. I think just give Bonus Feat: Skill Focus(Sense Motive).

[johnbragg]

Am I overthinking this? Why are the villagers running for Sir Ethelred instead of Brother Elrick anyway? If we don't need the Officer of the Crown to Expeditious Retreat to the scene of the accident and start Curing Minor Wounds and Creating Water to put out the fire, then the job is down to 1. Judging minor crimes and legal claims and 2. Quelling disturbances (mosty tavern brawls in cities).

So maybe I could streamline this, drop the First "Responder" elements, and just have the dip-class give bonus feats Skill Focus: Sense Motive and Skill Focus: Knowledge (Local). Maybe Calm Emotions as an SLA 1/day, since that's the Officer of the Crown's main tool against bar-brawls anyway.

At that point, maybe this is just a magic item?

[Just to Browse]

You have duly noted that there are a variety of different paths one could take. You could emulate this by dipping cleric with appropriate domains. It would not be particularly hard to write Town / Peasant domain, or a peasant cleric ACF (like a cloistered cleric, but he farms mud). You could also take a feat chain that grants casting (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Intermediate_Spellcaster_(3.5e_Feat)) (that's homebrew, but it's good). Again, writing up a quick spell list for town magic would be easy. You could also emulate this with some sort of alchemy / artifice, where your officers come with 10 different items for everyday needs, such as candles of truth, decanters of endless water, magic band-aids, etc. This wouldn't require any homebrewing at all, and you would just need a dude with prowess enough to craft all those things.

However I have found some inspiration in your musings, and I am considering a base class that works something like this:

Sorta-Magic-Guy


Level
Special
Lists


1
Spellcasting
1


2
Flavor
2


3
Combat Thing
2


4
Flavor
3


5
Better Combat Thing
4



Spellcasting: Spell charges, something easily refreshable. You get them off a super short spell list, and you get a number of spell lists as dictated by the table. Your max spell is equal to 1/2 your ECL or 1/2 your class level, whichever is less.

Flavor: Things like mundane crafts, giving presentations, skill focus feats, whatever's small.

Combat Thing: Like ranger combat styles, but much more varied. From command to snake's swiftness to bonus damage.

Spell Lists: Mostly utility, very small

Fireman
(0) Create water, stabilize someone
(1) Endure elements, deathwatch
(2) gust of wind, resist energy
etc

Minor Judge
(0) detect a bunch of things
(1) detect even more things
(2) zone of truth jacked up on steroids, augury
etc

Peacekeeper
(0) Virtue, mending
(1) Sanctuary, protection from blah
(2) Calm emotions, lesser restoration
etc

This makes a dip-friendly class that allows you to service the same generic concept (multiclass guy with a narrow form of utility magic) without having first responders using zone of truth and peacekeepers with endure elements. You can branch it out into hunters who hunt their quarry with the Forest Friend list and lawyers who trick people out of their money with the Devil's Contract list. On top of that, the class can get a little out of hand with the number of spells at high levels, so E6 is a natural fit for its design.

[johnbragg]

I like the "sorta magic guy" blueprint. It doesn't fill the role I was looking for, but I think I'm happy with the "Officer of the Crown" as a one-level dip class, with Skill Focus: Sense Motive and Skill Focus: Knowledge(Local) and maybe the Calm Emotions SLA. What hit dice and skills he gets are fairly trivial now that I've worked that out.

Maybe there should be a niche, especially in homebrew, outside Base Class with 20 levels and Prestige Class with 10 levels starting at ECL 7--dip class or "short class". There's no reason that Sorta Magic Guy: Town Guard needs to be more than 5 levels--fill the rest in with martial base classes, Fighter or Warblade or Marshall or whatever--and no reason that a sergeant of the guard wouldn't be a Fighter 1-Town Guard 2. It wouldn't be a base class because you wouldn't specialize in it from the beginning, but it's a role that a low-level veteran would go into.

The Sorta Magic Guy structure kind of reminds me of how the 2E Compleat Priest built specialty priests--using a customizable formula. Does Sorta Magic Guy deserve his own thread?

[Just to Browse]

I'm glad you found what you wanted. As GLaDoS says, the best solution to a problem is usually the easiest one.

The idea of short base classes has cropped up once in a while before (http://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Races_of_War_(3.5e_Sourcebook)/Warriors_with_Class#Base_Classes). It's a logical idea... sometimes a 20-level class just can't be filled without diluting the concept.

[jqavins]

"Officer of the Crown" would be a set of abilities (template? bonus level?) that would allow a non-caster to fill the role of justice-of-the-peace, sheriff, fireman, EMT, what else? He's a leader of the community, a quick-response force for minor emergencies, he's the local law enforcement, he's also the local judge. His role is not to win the bar fight, it's to stop the bar fight.
By winning it if necessary? A person in this sort of role will find himself on the target end of other people's hostility from time to time, so he should be able to handle himself, i.e. have a good BAB and decent hit points.


Inspirations: Granny Weathervax, Commander Vimes, Sheriff Andy Taylor, firemen, EMTs, country doctors, Lassie.

There are a couple of different roles that don't always overlap--First Responder ("Come quick Mr Jenkins!"), Minor Judge, and Bar-Fight-Bouncer.

First Responder: Something's on fire, a cow broke an ankle in the field, a tree fell on Henderson, Mrs Henderson suddenly went into labor and the midwife's in the next town, etc

Minor Judge: hearing minor cases in the local tavern or church building or the judge's parlor

Bar-Fight-Bouncer: Shows up and calms everything down.
Another source for inspiration would be The Heralds of Valdamar. (Sorry if some are tired of me bringing this series up.) The Heralds are mostly a combination of law enforcement official, judge, and "voice of the crown," and generally competent to handle most situations. (If they were transported to a wild wesst setting they'd be the US marshal and circuit judge rolled into one.) They are also sometimes used in paramilitary roles for rapid response and special forces. And they're also sometimes used as diplomats or spies. Some would be higher level characters than you are thinking of, but the average Herald is a lot like what you're describing. (Well, except for the psionics, the years of formal training, and the intelligent magic horses, but never mind that; those are only the key features of the series, and surprisingly unimportant to what most Heralds do most of the time.)


Notepad for discussion of spells to include/exclude

Command: One target for one round, so what's the point? Command is usually used to set up a surrender or an attack vs prone, so what does it do that Calm Emotions doesn't?
...
Zone of Truth Will save makes it sort of pointless. I think just give Bonus Feat: Skill Focus(Sense Motive).

Command is good for the law enforcement role, as in "Halt!" or "Decist!"

Zone of Truth: 99% of civilians are level 1 or 2, so their will saves are crap; I'd keep it.

You should add legal enforcement power. It's fluff, but perhaps important fluff. They can make arrests, their judgements are enforcable by higher authorities, hindering them in the execution of their duties is a crime, etc.

They should get Skill Focus: Heal. They should get access to a feat that I don't think exists, but it should: Unflappable (like the GURPS advantage of the same name.)

How much store should one set by the class name, Officer of the Crown? If it's really of the crown, not just of the town, then perhaps they should get a limited authority to spend (or promise) crown money, or promise other crown actions, once they reach the highest class levels. (And of course they'd be answerable to the crown if they overstep this authority.)

[johnbragg]

By winning it if necessary? A person in this sort of role will find himself on the target end of other people's hostility from time to time, so he should be able to handle himself, i.e. have a good BAB and decent hit points.

I picture most Officers of the Crown as Fighter 2/Officer 1s, Expert 2/Officer 1, Aristocrat 1/Officer 1s. It's not a level you take for the combat power, even though most of the people who have it are at least adequate in a bar fight. But they're not expected to wade in and lay out a tavern full of rowdies on his own. In a town with a town guard, the town guard is either there or about to show up. In a village, it's a little trickier, but the Officer of the Crown probably got the job because he's on good terms with the townsfolk and he can talk down locals and/or quickly arrange backup muscle.


Another source for inspiration would be The Heralds of Valdamar. (Sorry if some are tired of me bringing this series up.) The Heralds are mostly a combination of law enforcement official, judge, and "voice of the crown," and generally competent to handle most situations. (If they were transported to a wild wesst setting they'd be the US marshal and circuit judge rolled into one.)

I haven't watched that many Westerns lately, but I don't remember too many where Gary Cooper showed up with a Gatling gun and a rail-splitters' maul. 9 times out of 10, the badge does the job.
Officer of the Crown is also a minor judicial function--that's why Skill Focus: Sense Motive and Skill Focus: Knowledge(Local) comes in.


They are also sometimes used in paramilitary roles for rapid response and special forces. And they're also sometimes used as diplomats or spies. Some would be higher level characters than you are thinking of, but the average Herald is a lot like what you're describing. (Well, except for the psionics, the years of formal training, and the intelligent magic horses, but never mind that; those are only the key features of the series, and surprisingly unimportant to what most Heralds do most of the time.)

There are plenty of adventuring classes that are better suited for those roles, though. I don't see the "Officer of the Crown" as necessarily a full-time job. It's a mark of respect and prestige in the community, that comes with certain responsibilities, like being a member of the school board except in a D&D world.


Command is good for the law enforcement role, as in "Halt!" or "Decist!"
Zone of Truth: 99% of civilians are level 1 or 2, so their will saves are crap; I'd keep it.

Command and Zone of Truth are both pretty unreliable tools. Even a 1st level Commoner has a 1/3 chance of making a DC 13 Will save. When I was making a list of a dozen or so spells, they're on the list. When I started thinking about what the casting mechanism would be (let's see, Lassie the Lycanthrope, Officer of the Crown, learns that Timmy fell through the ice into the pond. Expeditious Retreat, Cure Minor Wounds, Endure Elements. That's 3 spells in order to be minimally effective with the casting. No bueno, that's an invitation to munchkin shenanigans.)

So I went with junking the casting--if Timmy falls through the ice, run and get a Cleric, or an adept if you're in that sort of setting.



You should add legal enforcement power. It's fluff, but perhaps important fluff. They can make arrests, their judgements are enforcable by higher authorities, hindering them in the execution of their duties is a crime, etc.

That's all true. The reason I kept the Calm Emotions SLA is that, even if you make the Will save, which 1/3 of 1st level Commoners will, the guy who throws the *next* punch is not just Guilty of Breaking the King's Peace but also Guilty of Defying an Officer of the King, and in a much more serious world of hurt legally.


They should get Skill Focus: Heal. They should get access to a feat that I don't think exists, but it should: Unflappable (like the GURPS advantage of the same name.)

Skill Focus: Heal fits with the EMT First Responder theme, but I cut back to just the lawman piece.

Unflappable fits with the lawman theme, but I don't think I need to homebrew a feat for it. If an ECL 4 busts out a Fear effect and panics the Officer, them's the breaks.


How much store should one set by the class name, Officer of the Crown? If it's really of the crown, not just of the town, then perhaps they should get a limited authority to spend (or promise) crown money, or promise other crown actions, once they reach the highest class levels. (And of course they'd be answerable to the crown if they overstep this authority.)

Just because he's the king doesn't mean he's throwing around money like a pro athlete. If the crown were being that open-handed with its resources, this wouldn't be a dip class, this would be a Heward's Haversack full of relevant magic items. :smallbiggrin:

[Darkstand]

You should add legal enforcement power. It's fluff, but perhaps important fluff. They can make arrests, their judgements are enforcable by higher authorities, hindering them in the execution of their duties is a crime, etc.
That's all true. The reason I kept the Calm Emotions SLA is that, even if you make the Will save, which 1/3 of 1st level Commoners will, the guy who throws the *next* punch is not just Guilty of Breaking the King's Peace but also Guilty of Defying an Officer of the King, and in a much more serious world of hurt legally.

The authority and financial reserves do not need to be statted out, in my opinion. Just as the power of a king does not come from his class, neither does the authority of a office/cop/watchman/whatever-else-you-need-him-to-be. Its s in character reaction to his authority... or his claiming of authority. After all, you could claim authority you don't have, or be removed from service. This differentiation allows for all sorts of shenanigans (stolen identity, impersonation a officer, officer not believed, ect. ect.)

The reason I kept the Calm Emotions SLA is that, even if you make the Will save, which 1/3 of 1st level Commoners will, the guy who throws the *next* punch is not just Guilty of Breaking the King's Peace but also Guilty of Defying an Officer of the King, and in a much more serious world of hurt legally.
Still, having command back on the list might not be a bad idea to support this. It makes people stop and pause, listen to you, and then if they continue anyway its intentional. Works much better for that purpose than calm emotions IMHO, although that's good for different reasons. (Emotional people make emotional choices, that they often regret later.)

It does not help with the stats, but this thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?393628-IDEA-quot-Investiture-quot-granting-levels-by-legal-magical-ceremony) might be of interest to you, as it sounds like the sort of natural occurrence you are looking for (albeit with higher level assumptions, but it still applies).
Bwahahahahahaha.... I was about to reply to your thread with another of your threads. Good going, me. I see your master plan now.

[jqavins]

By winning if necessary?
...

The Heralds are mostly a combination of law enforcement official, judge, and "voice of the crown," and generally competent to handle most situations. (If they were transported to a wild wesst setting they'd be the US marshal and circuit judge rolled into one.)
I picture most Officers of the Crown as Fighter 2/Officer 1s, Expert 2/Officer 1, Aristocrat 1/Officer 1s. It's not a level you take for the combat power, even though most of the people who have it are at least adequate in a bar fight. But they're not expected to wade in and lay out a tavern full of rowdies on his own. In a town with a town guard, the town guard is either there or about to show up. In a village, it's a little trickier, but the Officer of the Crown probably got the job because he's on good terms with the townsfolk and he can talk down locals and/or quickly arrange backup muscle.

I haven't watched that many Westerns lately, but I don't remember too many where Gary Cooper showed up with a Gatling gun and a rail-splitters' maul. 9 times out of 10, the badge does the job.
I'm not talking about massive force, though Marshall Dillon can outdraw and outfight most folks, as a last resort. I only meant that a fighter 2/Officer 1 (for example) having ECL 3 ought to be able to fight with a good 3rd level total BAB, not more.



They are also sometimes used in paramilitary roles for rapid response and special forces. And they're also sometimes used as diplomats or spies.
There are plenty of adventuring classes that are better suited for those roles, though. I don't see the "Officer of the Crown" as necessarily a full-time job. It's a mark of respect and prestige in the community, that comes with certain responsibilities, like being a member of the school board except in a D&D world.
I was unclear. I didn't mean to suggest Officers of the Crown should have these roles, I just got talking about Heralds and got carried away with details, some that do seem like Officers of the Crown and some that don't.


Command and Zone of Truth are both pretty unreliable tools. Even a 1st level Commoner has a 1/3 chance of making a DC 13 Will save.
I confess I was thinking erroneously of the 1st Ed Command spell, which allows any one word command and low level characters don't get a save. I haven't played a cleric in decades.


Skill Focus: Heal fits with the EMT First Responder theme, but I cut back to just the lawman piece.
It also fits with the lawman piece, IMO, because a cop ought to be well trained in first aid; he's not the first responding expert in it, but since he's very likely to be first on the scene he should be able to give some immediate help.


Unflappable fits with the lawman theme, but I don't think I need to homebrew a feat for it. If an ECL 4 busts out a Fear effect and panics the Officer, them's the breaks.
I was thinking more of non-magical effects. He's not momentarily startled into paralysis when the tavern's barrel of strong spirits bursts in a giant fireball or when the score of revenning orcs gallops up main street. (Not that he can take on a score of orcs, but whatever he can do he keeps his head and does right away.) Maybe a chance to negate the effects of surprise. Things like that.


Just because he's the king doesn't mean he's throwing around money like a pro athlete. If the crown were being that open-handed with its resources, this wouldn't be a dip class, this would be a Heward's Haversack full of relevant magic items. :smallbiggrin:
Hence my careful use of the word "limited." For example, if he is travelling and stays at an inn in the course of his duties he would be able to do so on crown credit. Or, in an emergency, run a horse to foundering then acquire another. And, as I also suggested, he can do this only so much and is answerable for exceeding his authority. Perhaps the limit goes up with class level, but still never to buying major magic items (or lots of minor ones.)

All that said, it's your class and these are just some ideas; I shall go no further in advocating for them.

[johnbragg]

I'm not talking about massive force, though Marshall Dillon can outdraw and outfight most folks, as a last resort. I only meant that a fighter 2/Officer 1 (for example) having ECL 3 ought to be able to fight with a good 3rd level total BAB, not more.

You've convinced me on that score, to give the Officer of the Crown a full +1 BAB.


I was unclear. I didn't mean to suggest Officers of the Crown should have these roles, I just got talking about Heralds and got carried away with details, some that do seem like Officers of the Crown and some that don't.

Well, my concept has been refined a bit since the OP, and the Heralds are about as close to the OP as the stripped-down Officers of the Crown are.


I confess I was thinking erroneously of the 1st Ed Command spell, which allows any one word command and low level characters don't get a save. I haven't played a cleric in decades.

Yeah. Command has been nerfed into obvilion. You're just as likely to succeed on an untrained Intimidate check with favorable circumstances.



Skill Focus:Heal It also fits with the lawman piece, IMO, because a cop ought to be well trained in first aid; he's not the first responding expert in it, but since he's very likely to be first on the scene he should be able to give some immediate help.

I think that would make sense if we were building a base class or a PF-style archetype


I was thinking more of non-magical effects. He's not momentarily startled into paralysis when the tavern's barrel of strong spirits bursts in a giant fireball or when the score of revenning orcs gallops up main street. (Not that he can take on a score of orcs, but whatever he can do he keeps his head and does right away.) Maybe a chance to negate the effects of surprise. Things like that.

It's not a bad idea. "Unflappable" giving a bonus to saves against fear, initiative bonus. But it's a lot of work for not a lot of benefit, I think.


Hence my careful use of the word "limited." For example, if he is travelling and stays at an inn in the course of his duties he would be able to do so on crown credit. Or, in an emergency, run a horse to foundering then acquire another. And, as I also suggested, he can do this only so much and is answerable for exceeding his authority. Perhaps the limit goes up with class level, but still never to buying major magic items (or lots of minor ones.)

This might leave too much to DM discretion, but I think part of that (emergency expenses) are handled by the Officers' personal prestige. Either George Bailey or Potter from It's a Wonderful Life could get tabbed as Officers of the Crown, and either one wouldn't have much trouble getting any assistance needed--George Bailey because of his reservoir of goodwill, Potter because people don't want to cross him.


All that said, it's your class and these are just some ideas; I shall go no further in advocating for them.

I like the Heralds as a PRC, but we'd have to hash out what is a Herald feature vs what just comes from having N? levels in X base classes.