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Alucard2099
2015-01-22, 09:49 AM
ok... I see everywhere that people wanna be a kobold... why? Can someone answer me this? I don't get it.

holygroundj
2015-01-22, 09:57 AM
Not exactly sure what a kobald is, but people enjoy playing different archetypes. People want to be a kobold for the same reason they want to be a hafling, character concept, being "different," etc. I've played a goblin and a gnoll before and these type of monster pcs can be really fun to get into.

Alucard2099
2015-01-22, 10:04 AM
Not exactly sure what a kobald is, but people enjoy playing different archetypes. People want to be a kobold for the same reason they want to be a hafling, character concept, being "different," etc. I've played a goblin and a gnoll before and these type of monster pcs can be really fun to get into.

So the only appeal to play a Kobold is to be different, correct?

Gnomes2169
2015-01-22, 10:07 AM
KoBOLDS are adorable, stop judging me. :smalltongue:

But for a lot of people, it's just wanting to play the underdog who overcomed adversity. Also, some people like playing meek, relatively adorable (when chibified) characters... And then you get a cutebold.

Telonius
2015-01-22, 10:08 AM
Some people love an underdog. Can't get much more of an underdog than a kobold.

They also enjoy kind of a legacy reputation from previous editions. Things like Tucker's Kobolds (http://www.tuckerskobolds.com/) from AD&D, and Pun-Pun (http://community.wizards.com/forum/previous-editions-character-optimization/threads/1013486) from 3rd edition have made them legendary.

DireSickFish
2015-01-22, 10:16 AM
Deekin Scalesinger is a huge reason that I want to play kobolds. They also had a ton of support in 3.5 both crunch and fluff so we know a lot about them. I suppose all that fluff and crunch came because people were interested in them int he first place.

They were really the only dragon race until dragonborn were invented. and the Half-Dragon template severly weakend you. So kobold was what you got.

There gods back-story is also rather tragic and makes them sound like they could be good guys. Gnarl Glittergold took away the best place ever because he was jelly of what the kobolds could do.

Maxilian
2015-01-22, 10:21 AM
Well i actually like Kobolds, because of their looks and their story, in most cases i feel bad about them, i feel that they are a poor race that are being controlled by tirants that call themselves gods, and who are those? DRAGONS! and you know what we do to dragons? we SLAY THEM! and what would be more fitting that a group of kobolds killing a dragon to ends its reign over its people and then drinking the blood of the slain dragon to empower themselves

Naanomi
2015-01-22, 10:24 AM
Kobolds being draconic is a 3.x invention, but as weak monsters who rely on traps to even the score they have always been fun.

Also, the 2e Humanoid Handbook had the best ability for them (they were always attacked last unless they showed themselves as obvious magical threats or there was no one else available to attack)

Dalebert
2015-01-22, 10:39 AM
I was recently in a PF game where we went to an island where kobolds were the natives. Humanoids were boating in and establishing outposts and cooperating with them quite well.

I seem to recall kobolds in 23 a seeming like dog people rather than dragon people.

kaoskonfety
2015-01-22, 11:19 AM
I personally don't see the deep appeal... who the hell an I kidding... I love the little monsters.
All Hail King Torg!

I suppose the question comes up so often as they are one of the baseline - nearly every player encounters them monsters and playing one seems fun and or a challenge?

The last player I has who was serious about playing one saw the way I was handling the NPC kobolds as cave dwelling semi-primitives - but rational, cunning and with a solid tribal identity, and he wanted in on it as the rest of the setting was fairly developed high medieval and there were not many spaces to play a tribal medicine man otherwise. As one oddball in an otherwise standard PC party of elves and dwarves he got looks from the guards and some heavy harassment till he packed on a few levels and some local rep as a healer and priest. He remains one of the more memorable PC's I've every dealt with.

Could the player have written down gnome and mechanically played pretty much the same thing? Yes? But we wouldn't have gotten into our discussions - in character - about D&D racism, weird little adhoc/ad-libed culture shocks (mugs don't work so well if you don't have cheeks, eating slain sentient foes isn't acceptable? why? I already killed them, seems disrespectful to waste it.) and similar. I wouldn't have been able to use him as a mouthpiece so the party could engage in some added social action with 'monster' races. There were alot of neat things it opened up.

- Whenever someone tries to pitch an oddball race I'm inclined to allow it once I've made sure the player isn't trying to be different 'for the sake of different' or for some twinked out power combo.
- I endeavour to treat all the races with average Int scores over 7 as "a people with a culture" rather than ravening monsters with EXP inside, so *everything* is PC eligible with a good reason provided it doesn't mess up the planned game (playing a bunch of Orcs is neat, unless the stated campaign is to work for the local elven king, who is at war with the Orcs)

WickerNipple
2015-01-22, 11:55 AM
I utterly adore kobolds. They are by far my favorite race to play as a DM. Never gotten around to it as a player but I'm sure I'd have a hoot.

However, I understand your shock. I recently learned some people actually play gnomes. *Shudder*

Alucard2099
2015-01-22, 12:01 PM
I utterly adore kobolds. They are by far my favorite race to play as a DM. Never gotten around to it as a player but I'm sure I'd have a hoot.

However, I understand your shock. I recently learned some people actually play gnomes. *Shudder*

0.0

I... have no words for this...

The Shadowdove
2015-01-22, 12:05 PM
I made the thread that's been ongoing about a Kobald pc stats.

It was for my player, who has been quite actively role playing his character.

He had given me a few races he'd have liked to play, and all of them are low level encounters that aren't uncommon as fodder in slave armies. (Drow for example)

He didn't mind if I were to put handicaps on him or not.

As a player in a game where the players aspire to be legendary adventurers or heroes, he said it sounds more of a challenge to play a character who's looked down upon from the beginning.

If he were to succeed in becoming a hero, the it's even less expected and more of a climb for his character.

The way he was introduced into the campaign?

A group of bandits being led by a doppelgänger cult as a distraction from their primary goals had slaughtered a kobald family and taken their cave as a base of operations.

Our pc kobald was left alive and dressed in demeaning clothing for nearly a year, and forced to act as their own personal jester, or bard. Of course he wasn't that good, he's a kobald, but they'd force him to continue and laugh at his efforts before beating him.

When he was rescued by the party, he took up arms with them using his steel flute as a weapon (that's been named "Pow" since then). When it came time to take on the bandit leader, who was secretly a doppelgänger, our kobald sent a shrill note through the air from his flute in order to distract the doppel from a killing blow on our fighter.

To his surprise it sent out a thunder wave which knocked everyone flat and sent the evil dudes artifact spinning away. It knocked the kobald on his rear too, having not expected it.

Now "Jingles" the kobald is our party bard, and they out up with his attempts at music simply because he's sincere in his attempts to use it to their benefit and has saved them a few times without expectation.


That being said, unnecessarily probably, I find my other players even underestimate the kobald often, since he plays it so well as a uneducated and simple yet loyal companion.

It's like having a 10 year old along for the journey, and they all either lose sight of jingles during combat or rp situations, then suddenly he shows up with a key in hand or to knock the Orc archers off of the cliff they're shooting down from.

The underdog is real!

WickerNipple
2015-01-22, 12:12 PM
http://38.media.tumblr.com/c4f47c3469e48edd291d80f0d4bbd560/tumblr_mshg3fijwT1rppb99o1_500.gif

Joe the Rat
2015-01-22, 12:16 PM
Dragon Magazine #141. The Humanoids issue.

"Hey, Wanna be a Kobold?"

And thus, Hilarity Ensued for the next 26 years...

randomodo
2015-01-22, 12:53 PM
Kobolds make excellent hats, and receptacles for salsa.

MadBear
2015-01-22, 12:57 PM
Kobolds make excellent hats, and receptacles for salsa.

you forgot kitty litter boxes as well.

Once a Fool
2015-01-22, 01:12 PM
I seem to recall kobolds in 23 a seeming like dog people rather than dragon people.

My memory agrees with you.

CrusaderJoe
2015-01-22, 01:41 PM
4e Kobold Barbarian was fun as hell, would like to try it in 5e.

OldTrees1
2015-01-22, 02:21 PM
Sometimes it is nice to play the dexterous tricky scaly servant of dragons.

RedMage125
2015-01-22, 02:30 PM
One of the things I liked about 5e was that while they remained reptilian like they had been in 3.x and 4e, the artwork reflected an almost dog-like set about the face that brought me back to 2e's kobolds, where they were described as kind of doglike, but they DID have scales.

And I recently ran a group of 5 3rd level players into a deserted town occupied by 12 kobolds. In the spirit of Tucker's Kobolds, they had laid traps throughout the whole town. The party wasted surprise, so the kobolds knew they were there. They frequently popped out of hiding to launch attacks on the party, making sure that a tripwire or pressure plate was between them and the target. I had net traps, pressure plates with poison gas, tripwires attached to mini catapults that launched alchemist's fire, and piles of rock on top of the houses triggered to fall when tripwire was engaged. There was, of course, a winding path through the town that the kobolds took, and when the party moved slowly they did ok. When they got angry and charged the kobolds, all hell broke loose. Nearly killed 2 level 3 characters with an encounter worth only 300 XP, monster-wise (I added some more xp due to the traps).

kaoskonfety
2015-01-22, 02:46 PM
One of the things I liked about 5e was that while they remained reptilian like they had been in 3.x and 4e, the artwork reflected an almost dog-like set about the face that brought me back to 2e's kobolds, where they were described as kind of doglike, but they DID have scales.

And I recently ran a group of 5 3rd level players into a deserted town occupied by 12 kobolds. In the spirit of Tucker's Kobolds, they had laid traps throughout the whole town. The party wasted surprise, so the kobolds knew they were there. They frequently popped out of hiding to launch attacks on the party, making sure that a tripwire or pressure plate was between them and the target. I had net traps, pressure plates with poison gas, tripwires attached to mini catapults that launched alchemist's fire, and piles of rock on top of the houses triggered to fall when tripwire was engaged. There was, of course, a winding path through the town that the kobolds took, and when the party moved slowly they did ok. When they got angry and charged the kobolds, all hell broke loose. Nearly killed 2 level 3 characters with an encounter worth only 300 XP, monster-wise (I added some more xp due to the traps).

I've made EL 10+ (3rd edition parties) flee small bands (20-40) because it just was NEVER worth it. *Oh we won... a pittance of EXP and some rusty daggers... sigh... and they sounded and alarm... oh good. MORE kobolds and these are riding on dire weasels... nope, leaving!.*

Kobolds, used well, are EXP's you earn the **** out of.

But the same could be said for most thinking monsters who know they are in a world brimming with murderhobos. Kobold are just funnier for some reason, might be the dog yipping and growling I've made their primary spoken language.

Rogue Shadows
2015-01-22, 03:07 PM
Kobold are just funnier for some reason, might be the dog yipping and growling I've made their primary spoken language.

I actually use dog yapping for gnolls in my campaigns...kobolds speak Draconic, which is represented by Babylonian/Sumerian. Though tiny lizards speaking Sumerian has its own humor to it...

"Ati me peta babka!"
"Eli baltuti ima'idu mituti!"

Lonely Tylenol
2015-01-22, 03:45 PM
As someone who has never played a Kobold, but who has enjoyed playing Ratfolk (which are essentially urban Kobolds) in Pathfinder, I can understand the appeal: craven, guileful little creatures who have no place in above-ground civilization, and thus have to adapt to the seedy underbelly to survive, usually through pack tactics and hit-and-run maneuvers.

I played mine as a vain, somewhat genre-savvy character who was absolutely convinced that he must be the leading man--because, of course, someone this handsome and charming could not play a bit part in any grand adventure--and, since he was the leading man, he was meant to engage in daring escapades and defeat the Big Bad with a flourish and a finishing line. Much of his downtime was spent writing down witty quips to memorize and repeat in later combats (which he did to marginal success, often mixing up words or saying them in contexts where they didn't apply). If anyone is familiar with Final Fantasy XII, he drew a lot of inspiration from Balthier, except that he was hideous and totally lacking in wit.

Shining Wrath
2015-01-22, 04:25 PM
In 2nd edition Kobolds had the same hit dice as the smallest centipedes in the MM. They were the ultimate trash humanoid relying on numbers and traps.

And therefore, being a Kobold is like being a Halfling only scaly and smaller. You are the person no one expects anything from, and you are a mighty PC.

Pex
2015-01-22, 06:18 PM
I don't want to play a kobold, but I have become quite fond of kobolds ever since Meepo and Sunless Citadel. I really, really liked Meepo. My party befriended the kobolds who loved us for getting rid of the goblins for them. We also rescued their "pet", though Meepo died then. :smallfrown: They made us honorary members of their tribe.

Kane0
2015-01-22, 06:29 PM
Deekin Scalesinger

Yeah, that summarises a lot of the interest.

Also, have you seen the art for them in the MM? Far and away better than other editions.

ghost_warlock
2015-01-22, 08:07 PM
Back in 2e, gnomes and kobolds were the only ones who could multiclass cleric/thief. Exclusivity is a reward in itself. There was also the appeal of just maybe getting your DM to allow you to play an urd - winged kobold.

In 3e, kobold players could take feats to get wings among other dragon-themed benefits.

In 4e, kobolds initially had a really awesome shift-at-will racial feature. It eventually was modified and turned into an encounter power, but was still fairly useful.

RedMage125
2015-01-22, 10:00 PM
I've made EL 10+ (3rd edition parties) flee small bands (20-40) because it just was NEVER worth it. *Oh we won... a pittance of EXP and some rusty daggers... sigh... and they sounded and alarm... oh good. MORE kobolds and these are riding on dire weasels... nope, leaving!.*

Kobolds, used well, are EXP's you earn the **** out of.

But the same could be said for most thinking monsters who know they are in a world brimming with murderhobos. Kobold are just funnier for some reason, might be the dog yipping and growling I've made their primary spoken language.
I think that kobolds are unique from goblins in that regard.

Goblins may set crude snares, but kobolds are explicitly the trap savants. They are also characteristically much more cowardly and craven. So while kobolds in a den that they have trapped the bejeezus out of will be sneaky, ambushy little monsters that are terrifying, a cave full of them forced to fight PCs in a straight out fight (which my PCs did at level 1) will surrender once their leader is dead and they are clearly outmatched.

I actually use dog yapping for gnolls in my campaigns...kobolds speak Draconic, which is represented by Babylonian/Sumerian. Though tiny lizards speaking Sumerian has its own humor to it...

"Ati me peta babka!"
"Eli baltuti ima'idu mituti!"

I love gnolls, and I especially loved the innovation 4e had where they could imitate voices perfectly. had an awesome encounter I ran in 4e where the party got separated in fog and ambushed by gnolls.

And also, this reminds me of a quote I remember from a gaming group:

DM: As you enter the room, the kobolds all chant in unison-
PC (interrupts): I don't speak Unison

Mrmox42
2015-01-23, 03:20 AM
Kobolds can be fun, because they are always understimated.

I ran a series of encounters back in 2nd edition with them that went as follows:

1st. meeting with kobolds: A goblin camp had kobold slaves. When the players attacked, the goblins forced the kobolds to fight in the first rank – and they died in droves, before breaking and fleeing.

2nd meeting with kobolds: The players surprised a kobold raiding party on a rickety bridge. The kobolds died a lot and then fled.

So now the players found the kobolds to be easy XP and fun to kill.

3rd meeting with kobolds. The players were tasked with clearing out a kobold hide-out. The players were now 3rd level and thought it an easy job.
But THEN they faced the terrible traps and ambushes of the little scaly blighters. Two players lost their characters, and the rest had to make a rapid escape. They were shocked.
They then began thinking and returned to the caves, equipped for the task. This let to a very interesting series of nasty raids and counter-raids in the hideout, with lots of counter-trapping as well.
In the end, the players prevailed.

After that, one of the players asked to play a kobold.

Heartspan
2015-01-23, 07:43 AM
I think the real question is: why WOULDN'T you want to play a kobold? Lol and i second the cute statement~

Alucard2099
2015-01-23, 09:19 AM
So many different answers. However it doesn't change the fact that in 5e, kobolds are nothing but Canon fodder. ..

Heartspan
2015-01-23, 09:56 AM
They have ALWAYS been cannon fodder, i think thats part the appeal~

OldTrees1
2015-01-23, 10:47 AM
And for the Kobold PCs that don't want to be cannon fodder, there are the "create a PC race" rules in the DMG for the DM to use to make +2 Dex/+1 Int Kobolds or something.

WickerNipple
2015-01-23, 11:31 AM
So many different answers. However it doesn't change the fact that in 5e, kobolds are nothing but Canon fodder. ..

I dunno what game you've been playing, but everything in the book from aarakocra to zombie is just one form of cannon fodder or another.

Personally I just think you're suffering for kobophobia.

CrusaderJoe
2015-01-23, 01:10 PM
So many different answers. However it doesn't change the fact that in 5e, kobolds are nothing but Canon fodder. ..

Except when you use them correctly like good ole Tucker did... But yeah besides THAT they are just cannon fodder.

If you use any enemy played stupidly then they are common fodder, even beholders and dragons.

RedMage125
2015-01-23, 02:11 PM
I had an idea back in 3.x for a kobold paladin, named Tik-Snak, The Small And Annoying.

Would ride a Celestial Dire Weasel. A knight of Bahamut, he thought of himself as a mighty warrior and rushed headlong into the fight with evil (like Minsc from Baldur's Gate).

Durazno
2015-01-23, 06:58 PM
Well, human bandits are also cannon fodder. So are town guards.

Man, why would anyone want to play as a human?

Rogue Shadows
2015-01-23, 09:06 PM
Well, human bandits are also cannon fodder. So are town guards.

As I mentioned in another thread, though, kobolds are the cannon fodder's cannon fodder. They're the guys you send out when sending out goblins seems like it would be a waste.


Man, why would anyone want to play as a human?

Beats me, honestly; I'm a human in my everyday life, I don't intend to be one in a game as well if I don't have to be, unless there is a marked advantage.

Like, say, variant human with a bonus feat at 1st level. Yes, please.

goto124
2015-01-24, 01:04 AM
and I still haven't figured out what a kobold is.

Kane0
2015-01-24, 03:52 AM
and I still haven't figured out what a kobold is.

But everyone knows what kobolds are! Theyre those little dragon things, likened to goblins. Ive heard it said that kobolds are to dragonborn as halflings are to humans.

They look pretty cool tho.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20141112221803/forgottenrealms/images/f/f3/Monster_Manual_5e_-_Kobold_-_p195.jpg

ghost_warlock
2015-01-24, 05:26 AM
Yeah, kobolds look pretty dang cool.


http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/bayar_m2003/1251495907892.jpg

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091224154454/forgottenrealms/images/thumb/5/55/Kurtulmak_p80.jpg/149px-Kurtulmak_p80.jpg

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20081014080210/forgottenrealms/images/5/5c/4e_kobolds.jpg

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/sfery/images/c/cf/94140.jpeg/revision/latest?cb=20131209212953

http://www.3-sided-die.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/kobold-1.jpg

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/22591629/images/1358219404285.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c7/e2/58/c7e2587081d3be055cd5a286ec304113.jpg

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/blogs/geekdad/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Kobold.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-yPbEasgXDj8/Te7cj6PXHrI/AAAAAAAAAA4/A4DaNnRpaPc/s1600/1302386786245.jpg

https://thoughtrefraction.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/kobold-hero.jpg

http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/16220268/images/1315449673889.png

http://www.koboldpress.com/k/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/toadeyeFIN.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff15/bayar_m2003/1251496308722.png

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2012/044/7/6/a_kobold_and_his_raptor_by_kangetsu123-d4pmkm2.jpg

http://th08.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/i/2010/211/f/1/WyrmGuard_Kobolds_by_DaveAllsop.jpg

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/123/a/e/kobold_wizard_by_kingjder-d63xth9.jpg

https://jonbrazer.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/kobold.jpg

http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs46/f/2009/229/e/4/Kobold_monk_sorceress_line_art_by_N647.jpg

Logosloki
2015-01-24, 06:45 AM
I've liked kobolds ever since I cracked open the sunless citadel. I like them because they are the rodents of the dragon world and their reputation as the filler when you can't get goblins amuses me. I've DM'd several one-shots where the players play as kobolds. I got them to write up five kobolds so that I could really run a meatgrinder for one one-shot. Kobold dies, roll a d6, on a six you choose, on 1-5 it is whichever kobold is on the pile at that number. Rack up the challenge rating and have a beer an pretzels evening.

I might look into the race catalogue and see about kobolds, possibly even work a couple of classes for kobolds or even make a monster class for kobold and then some monster sub-classes.

Gnomes2169
2015-01-25, 06:19 PM
However, I understand your shock. I recently learned some people actually play gnomes. *Shudder*

;~; I guess I'll just go to my corner then and angst...

Forrestfire
2015-01-25, 06:54 PM
Yeah, kobolds look pretty dang cool.


snip

D20 modern Meepo is the best Meepo :smallbiggrin:

http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/d20m_gallery/610_088190_92.jpg

lonewulf
2015-01-25, 07:38 PM
I had an idea back in 3.x for a kobold paladin, named Tik-Snak, The Small And Annoying.

Would ride a Celestial Dire Weasel. A knight of Bahamut, he thought of himself as a mighty warrior and rushed headlong into the fight with evil (like Minsc from Baldur's Gate).

Ha, makes me think of Sir Didymus for Labyrinth XD

Envyus
2015-01-25, 08:56 PM
Here are a ton of Kobold Voice clips from D&D Online

http://soundboards.cubicleninja.com/

Mrmox42
2015-01-26, 08:31 AM
Back in the (very) old Orcs of Thar supplement, you could play ALL the fun races, such as Trolls, Ogres, Bugbears, Orcs, Hobgoblins, Gnolls, Goblins and Kobolds.

The Kobolds were then seen as the smart overseers of the bigger and dumber races