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demonwalker
2015-01-29, 10:03 PM
Recently, I've discovered something about every PC I've made. They're bland. They could have a personality, but they don't have goals. They aren't able to contribute much RP wise, even when that is how they were designed. And because of this, I've found that I need some help on roleplaying. The other party members have all sorts of things for their characters. They have goals, a diverse background, the ability to just talk to any NPC and know what to look for or ask about. I on the other hand, tend to have few goals that normally end up being the goals of the party as a whole, or very vague things such as "Become a better archer"

For example: One of the games I'm in has a player that had a goal to get a watchtower built for a town, to get some special swords made, and to find some kitsune in a world that is foreign to her. My goals: Get back to my old world and become a better healer...

I want to become a better roleplayer so I can properly contribute, so any help is appreciated. I'm sick of feeling like that person that shows up for combat.

JNAProductions
2015-01-29, 10:14 PM
Toss me one of your character's story and I'll see what I can do to help. I've got about ten hours total of RPG experience with dice, but I've got well over half a decade of nothing but pure, undiluted role-playing experience.

Admittedly, I'm also just naturally good at talking (whether or not I need to), so if you have trouble doing that, that could make role-playing harder. All the same, I'll try to help out.

huttj509
2015-01-29, 10:57 PM
Are you playing with known people, or new groups?

I find I have a tendency to want to "sit back and get a feel for the group dynamics," which on the surface is fine, but I never leave that state. Noticed it particularly with a living campaign I poke my head into, where my character has physical distinctiveness, but little personality (ok, in my head he's very much "do the job because he's just waiting to die," but that doesn't come through. Fun playing a one armed one eyed samurai, though, especially since his injuries weren't on the battlefield.).

For me, I don't want to consciously pull attention from the others in the group. Which in terms of characters in a story, winds up being "oh yeah, that guy, he was there too, I think." It gets easier the better I know the folks I'm playing with, though I find that for me, a character who starts out background, stays background.


One thing you can do, is play up what traits you have. Someone else wants to build a watchtower? How does that help your character get home? Don't split off on your own about it, but you can be enough vocal about it that it emphasizes that it's your character's drive. Often be noticing and commenting on how different things are from where you're from, etc.

SouthpawSoldier
2015-01-29, 11:29 PM
I always throw a little bit of myself into characters. I also work in various influences from pop culture, and see what tangents I can take them. When you're emotionally invested in your character, role-play comes more naturally.

For example, I'm currently running Vince "Broke Tooth" (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=82936). In my youth, I strongly identified with and noticed the parallels between Shrek, Cyrano de Bergerac, The Phantom of the Opera, Quasimodo, and the like. The idea of living on the fringe of society really sparked something in me, partly due to growing up a nerd in a small logging town. I was raised hero-worshiping Nessmuk, Jerimiah Johnson, and various Western characters; the tropes of the Mysterious Stranger and Diamond in the Rough. Being an idealist forced to accept reality; since I gained a moral compass primarily from the books I read, becoming an adult member of society was quite the culture shock. More than a little Quixote in there as well, I think.

Other character concepts I've toyed with are hypotheticals; since I married a Hawaiian, I spent a bit of time working on a write-up for a Polynesian-themed class and character. A little Barbarian, a little Druid, and some Bard traits mixed together to reflect the nature of Hawaiian religion and culture. Imagine a Polynesian interacting with a Western European fantasy setting. Not just culture shock, but total isolation from his home culture. Being a true Stranger in a Strange Land. Toss in what Valentine Michael Smith experienced coming to Earth, unable to communicate the beauty of his culture to total aliens in thought. How do you describe the color "red" to a blind person?

I've also done a pontificating Professor style Bard/Druid. A "Rain Man" without the shelter of a rich relative, and suddenly expelled from the asylum (mixed Dustin Hoffman's character with Hagrid for that one). Using therapy dogs for Aspies as influence for his animal companion; society is over stimulating, and only in nature, or with animals, is he at peace.

The ongoing theme is to find a way to connect to your characters. Pick a facet of your personality, expand it and make it the central theme to your character. Translate troubles and trials you've experienced into a fantasy setting. Extrapolate how YOU would adapt to these situations.

The first step is identifying a challenge or difficulty. Well-balanced, content characters by their very nature want for nothing; they have no need to aspire for something or be ambitious. If you can create an imbalance to how your character interacts with the world around them, the goals will write themselves. A sense of injustice, loneliness; a desire to right some wrong, suffered by someone or something you care about. Tragedy and how it's overcome is what creates heroes.

Make a goal your last item when creating the character. Start with a Trouble. Add in Influences; a friend, book, place or event that changed how your character viewed or interacted with the world. Goals will naturally fall into place.

goto124
2015-01-30, 12:08 AM
For me, part of the problem is fear. What if my character doesn't fit the setting? What if she can't get along with the rest of the group? Must I give her 'troubles' that don't affect the storyline or whatever? If her backstory doesn't affect how she acts in campaigns, why bother with a backstory? Is this sort of fleshing out characters useful to other people playing with me, how useful, and how do I make it useful to those people?

(For context, I don't read stories or books or watch TV shows etc. I've been playing computer games with very little plot, which doesn't really help. It's like I have an aversion to plot (What am I even doing here?), which is why I don't want to go too deep into storylines. To compound the problem, I've been in a game where RP and plot do matter, and things turned bad, as in 'my characters died to politics and PvP and couldn't keep good relationships with other players' bad. It's left a rather sour taste in my mouth. Admittingly, the golden rule of 'don't make things unfun for other players' was not really applied in that game. And I'm veering off-topic.)

SouthpawSoldier
2015-01-30, 12:22 AM
Questions and difficulties...

And I'm veering off-topic.)

Not that far off; it's relevant to the topic.

Part of this is DM involvement; with my Polynesian character, volcanoes and worship of Pele were a thing. Doesn't really fit in a setting with no volcanoes or islands. It took compromise of DM setting and character fluff to get them to mesh.

As for troubles; give the character an interesting trouble, and the DM will be compelled to work it into the plot. Both player and DM must be flexible on this; the Ranger Favored Enemy feature is a classic example of what happens with a lack of DM/player cohesion. Does no good to hate Undead in a settign with no Undead threat.

And part of this may be game/group choice; if plot and character story isn't your forte, I'd stay away from Fate-based systems or the like.

goto124
2015-01-30, 12:27 AM
Hard to work with the DM BEFORE joining any campaigns though. Thought it would be nice to have a backstory pre-game.

Does it help to have the character come from another world outside the setting, such that her background doesn't have to mesh completely with the setting the campaign's in? Also prevents too much interaction with your character's past, though this might be a bad thing...


Another problem with me, perhaps, is that I like freedom (Chaotic IRL :P), so restricting myself with plot is something I don't like.

kardar233
2015-01-30, 03:43 AM
I find a really solid way to add depth to a character is to decide something strange, and then explain it.

The first part is to decide on something strange that sets your character apart. Maybe they don't drink, or they hate the colour purple. For one campaign that's happening now, I decided to make a Dark Elf Sorceress named Caheira, and at a point in the first session I decided that she doesn't like wearing the revealing clothes that are usually associated with the Sorceresses. I had no particular reason to make this decision; it had no bearing on the plot or course of the game, it was simply something that I decided to add to the character.

Now, those sorts of strange things usually get written off as character quirks, but that's a dead end and doesn't really add much to your character. I asked myself why Caheira, who is not only a Sorceress but also an initiate of the Cult of Pleasure, would feel uncomfortable wearing those revealing clothes. I went through a few drafts to explain this and eventually settled on the idea that her mother had treated her like an animal for the first years of her life, as her mother was scared of Caheira's magical talent and wanted to break her spirit to avoid being killed or overthrown. This established Caheira's mother as a personal antagonist and allowed me to extrapolate from there to create other interesting things. For example, her mother was a warrior and valued combat ability greatly, and she decided that Caheira shouldn't be allowed that, so she repeatedly maimed and healed Caheira to break her ability to use any sort of weapon, explaining why she relies almost totally on her sorcerous skills.

The great thing about this method is that it doesn't require a lot of pre-planning, as you're inventing quirks and hooks for the character and then expanding them into backstory at your leisure. Furthermore, as it's done during the campaign, you can adjust for the feel of the campaign and the party much more easily.

TheThan
2015-01-30, 04:38 AM
Take some of spoony’s advice and actually come up with a goal for your character. Heck if you need to steal from movies, tv, video games and any other media you can think of then do it. Just change the names a bit.
Become king by your own hand (conan)
Find and kill the six fingered man (do I really…. The princess bride)
Rescue your GF from the devil (ghosts and goblins)
Wake your girlfriend that’s been placed under a magical sleep effect (legend of Zelda II: the adventure of link, sleeping beauty, snow white and the seven dwarves).
Overthrow a usurper (Robin Hood, the three musketeers)
That sort of stuff.

Heck a really simple and basic goal could be to make money. There’s no harm in simply playing a mercenary. You can come up with something oddly specific, like the six fingered man. That’s a pretty rare thing; someone’s going to notice that. You might have something of importance, a signet ring that’s worth a lot of money, but it’s the only clue into the mystery of who killed your wife and child so you can’t sell it for gold.



Hard to work with the DM BEFORE joining any campaigns though. Thought it would be nice to have a backstory pre-game.

Does it help to have the character come from another world outside the setting, such that her background doesn't have to mesh completely with the setting the campaign's in? Also prevents too much interaction with your character's past, though this might be a bad thing...


Another problem with me, perhaps, is that I like freedom (Chaotic IRL :P), so restricting myself with plot is something I don't like.

Not really, just start chatting the Dm up about the upcoming game. Ask him about the general style of the setting, what influences he’s using to craft his universe, what sort of themes is he wanting to explore in his setting. Believe it or not, a lot of Dms actually think about that sort of stuff and by getting him to tell you will get him fired up and enthused about his game. DMs LOVE talking about their settings and games. Heck I’ve got pages upon pages of text I highly doubt anyone else will see. But I love writing it so I do. It’s nice to have a character that meshes with the setting. I’ve seen characters that had nothing to do with the setting completely disrupt a game before.

Most Dms won’t marry you to your back-story too badly; they’ll use it, which is awesome. But they won’t force you to pursue it constantly. Sometimes they’ll tie the story into your background. That black guard you’ve been hunting for five sessions, turns out he’s the six fingered man that you’ve sworn revenge upon. Now it’s personal; now you’ve got reason besides “he’ll destroy the world," or "it’s the right thing to do” etc. That is even better than just having some generic non-specific goal to accomplish that might not have any thing to do with the meta-plot. but a decent or better Dm will incorporate that stuff into the game.

Beta Centauri
2015-01-30, 01:20 PM
Those people aren't necessarily better roleplayers. It's likely that they just understand what the GM will eat up and the GM understands what they'll latch onto. I would find the "roleplaying" you describe as very off-putting.

Don't force it. Don't worry about emulating what the other players are doing. Ask your GM what the game is about, and decide that those issues matter to your character. Exactly why they matter doesn't itself matter right off the bat; it's just important that you feel that it's important to engage with what's going on in the game. After you've engaged, you'll more easily be able to come up with reasons why the character cares, and those will become your character's background.

I keep coming back to TV shows as my basis for roleplaying. Plenty of times, characters are introduced without strong backstory or goals, other than what's necessary to move things forward. If later they become more of a main character, their background will be fleshed out in a way that explains their past actions, and gives them more of a personality moving forward.

gom jabbarwocky
2015-01-30, 02:27 PM
Creating goal-oriented PCs is a good start, but that's not the only way to set your PC apart from the crowd. Simple idiosyncrasies can go a long way in making your character feel more three dimensional without having a lot of baggage. Sometimes it's as simple as having some distinctive aspect of their appearance they are exceptionally proud of - like, say your PC has extremely bright red hair that sticks straight up like a giant cowlick. And they love to show it off - they refuse to wear headwear that covers their hair, and they meticulously care for it to keep it always perfectly straight and pointed upward. Other PCs can always pick him out of a crowd, and when describing him, other characters can always refer to the guy with the crazy red hair.

Actually, I like this idea so much, I'm going to use it for my next PC!

SouthpawSoldier
2015-01-30, 02:41 PM
Creating goal-oriented PCs is a good start, but that's not the only way to set your PC apart from the crowd. Simple idiosyncrasies can go a long way in making your character feel more three dimensional without having a lot of baggage. Sometimes it's as simple as having some distinctive aspect of their appearance they are exceptionally proud of - like, say your PC has extremely bright red hair that sticks straight up like a giant cowlick. And they love to show it off - they refuse to wear headwear that covers their hair, and they meticulously care for it to keep it always perfectly straight and pointed upward. Other PCs can always pick him out of a crowd, and when describing him, other characters can always refer to the guy with the crazy red hair.

Actually, I like this idea so much, I'm going to use it for my next PC!


Gnome wizard with an ioun stone embedded in their navel?

ElenionAncalima
2015-01-30, 03:47 PM
A trick I find useful with players who want help making their backstory is to ask a lot of questions. But if you don't have someone to talk it over with, the best question you can ask yourself is "why?". For instance, there is nothing wrong with "Become a better archer" as a starting point. To make it more interesting, just make sure to ask "why?". Why does your character need to be better? Why archery specifically?

I'm a firm believer that you don't need to have ten pages of backstory or some profoundly tragic past, you just need a few motivations that are rooted in something believable and relatable. Then you need to keep those motivations in mind when you make IC decisions.

As far as roleplaying, my advice would be to not worry so much about getting your backstory across to the other players. Personally, when I write a backstory I am okay with there being specifics that the other players never learn. Instead I use those details to influence my decisions. In fact, sometimes I feel it helps to not share the specifics with anyone except the DM, because then sharing your backstory becomes something you work towards in game, instead of a one time event. For example, the players in a recent campaign I was in never found out that my village was destroyed because a noble misappropriated defense funds. However, when we were given the choice between working with the military captain or a wealthy nobleman, my in character choice was an easy one.

Also, keep in mind the game is supposed to be fun. Put more effort into roleplaying to enhance your gameplay experience. However, don't beat yourself up about it or let it stress you out. Not everyone needs a creative backstory to have fun. I'd wager that most GMs and players would rather play with someone who had a simple backstory, but participates and is a team player, than player who has a Pulitzer worthy backstory, but now expects everything to be about their character.

demonwalker
2015-01-30, 05:35 PM
O.O Tons of replies. Stupid school in the way. I'll start from the top: Talked to JNAP through PM

huttj: These are people I've been with before. We're in several games together a week. I do end up taking the backseat to them. I don't like hogging all the time...and end up getting almost none of it. I do have traits, Blessed Touch and Armor Expert. Not really sure how to RP those...

Southpaw: I've considered that, but I have doing something that's been done. I like to be unique, or at least hard to get the reference. As for creating goals while creating the character, That was what my goal of being a better healer was.

goto: I know the char meshes well in the setting, as this one isn't insane like my last one. I am afraid of saying the wrong thing though.

Kardar: I haven't considered doing something like that...I could try it. I haven't messed with quirks a whole lot.

Elenion: I don't tend to do too much background story work. I end up with a paragraph or two, then let the story shape my characters more. And my character may as well be a mystery to the others. There are many things they don't know about xim.

Lord Torath
2015-01-30, 05:52 PM
As you said, you want to be a better healer. So, why? Maybe you want to return to share healing knowledge with your home village. Maybe your girlfriend (or boyfriend, as the case may be) has a chronic debilitating disease that has defied all previous attempts at healing. Maybe you want to open your own practice. Maybe someone has come to your village and threatened to start a plague if your village doesn't pay 50 bazillion gold every year, and you want to nullify that threat. Maybe you want to publish a the world's first medical text. Wanting to be a better healer is great, but it sounds like more of a means to an end, rather than a goal all by itself. Come up with a reason to be a great healer, and let that guide your actions.

Don't be afraid to ask your group to visit a nearby village that has a particular technique for curing a particular ailment (you'll need your DM's help with this, probably) that you want to learn.

VincentTakeda
2015-01-31, 03:48 AM
And of course to go in a different direction for a moment... sometimes good character design isnt about having goals at all... Sometimes the best characters are the one's that simply have an internal consistancy. What makes them 'come alive' is simply finding ways to show that internal consistancy in an external way at the table.

I was getting tired of my players always 'building to task'... Asking about the campaign plot or setting so they can build something useful... As if being useful was the only way to have fun. Meaning the character itself sort of became the least important thing in the game. All of their characters were effective, but effectively soulless.

So I introduced the matrix boot sector. Make a character in the whitespace in between worlds knowing nothing about where you're going to go or what you're going to do. The character building tools tell you what you CAN do... But you could be dropped in dino land, a volcanic planet. Hell. The open sea. Murderworld... Outerspace..

It COULD BE ANYTHING.

AND IT COULD... CHANGE... OFTEN!!!

It induced an almost allergic reaction... rage... indignance... Nearly the most fervent emotions i've ever seen out of my current table came from insisting they do something other than create bland employees tailor made to thrive in a setting or thrive at performing a task which had been outlined before they even put pencil to character sheet.

They werent building characters. They were building tools.

They actually couldnt wrap their mind around the concept that a character exists outside of his effectiveness or connection to the world around them... In order to get them over the hump I simply picked a character I knew they liked and suggested it as a model... Ron Swanson. He's not a superhero... But make no mistake he's a personality.. He HAS character in spades.

I'm like look. You think he's hillarious. You agree with everthing he says... That 'character' is awesome independent of the setting or the job. You don't like him because of the job he does or how effective he is at his job, or the world he lives in or how well he fits into that world...

Matter of fact you kinda like him for the things he does that separate himself from the common tropes of his setting. I don't have any idea if he'd be good at climbing volcanoes or fighting dinosaurs or saving the city from demons...

What I can tell you is that it takes practically no 'role playing experience' to instinctively imagine 'what would Ron Swanson do' in any giving setting or situation. So to 'play that character' wouldn't just be fun... It would be practically instinctive.

I insisted and I'll tell you the characters they have now already *feel* much more legit than anything else I've seen them build.

So my advice would be to think about the characters from comics or movies or books or what have you and think on 'why' they are your favorite characters... Is it because they are the most effective at their job? Is it because of how well they fit in? Probably not. But whatever it actually is... Those are the traits to build your character around and attempt to bring to the table.

Iron man isnt just about the suit. I honestly didnt like iron man at all until they put Downey Jr in there. Captain america isnt just about the shield. Wolverine isnt just a worldwide favorite because of his stat block and Deadpool even moreso. But it doesnt always have to be the big damn hero that makes a great character.. Everyone loves agent coulson. I personally gravitate towards wise mentors like qui gon jin and master oogway... Quirky off putting geniuses like sherlock... And the change in Kevin Flynn across the two movies was probably my favorite one in a long time... He sure didnt start out 'fitting in or familiar with or powerful in his setting' though.

You've got characters you like... Examine why they're your favorites and harness those traits in how you play your guy. What would Ron Swanson do?

Yora
2015-01-31, 04:38 AM
I never do backstories, because in almost all cases they don't matter at all.

Instead what works much better to create some character personalty is to define a couple of character traits first and think about how they fit together later.
How was the character trained? Why did the character get trained in the skills he has? What kind of rewards is the character after? What are the things the character hates, fears, and loves the most? What kind of people does the character admire and respect and which ones does he despite?

The answers to these can be very simple, but they still provide a good framework to get a general idea for who the character is and how he acts.

VincentTakeda
2015-01-31, 05:40 AM
I notice I always like Jeff Goldblum's stuttering genius schtick. Jurassic Park 2 (not 1 where he's more of a creeper). Holy man. Independence day.

That sort of 'I'm used to saying things in a way that offends people, so I should uh... pause.. for a moment and... uh... assemble my words as uh.. as appropriately as possible.

I know that kinda thing really unnerves a lot of folks though.