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Ghost Dragon
2015-02-02, 06:51 PM
PEACH! Changed quite a lot so please give some feedback.
So I wanted to make a subclass that had the same feel and flavour of the original Enlightened Fist prestige class from 3.5. Want some feedback on what ya'll think of its flavour and balance. :smallsmile: Here it is:

Way of the Enlightened Fist
Monks of the Way of the Enlightened Fist pursue metaphysical perfection to the exclusion of all other study. They combine a rigorous discipline of academic study with martial arts and development of the body. For these monks, that study includes the practice of magic and the implementation of certain arcane tricks into their unarmed combat styles. These enlightened fists master the use of melee spell attacks, creating new forms of combat where their fists strike with blinding speed, phenomenal power, and magical energy.

Spellcasting
When you reach 3rd level, you augment your martial arts with the ability to cast spells.
Cantrips. You learn three cantrips: shocking grasp and two other cantrips of your choice from the wizard spell list. You learn an additional wizard cantrip of your choice at 10th level.
Spell Slots.The Way of The Enlightened Fist Spellcasting table (See Arcane Trickster spellcasting table) shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spellís level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest. For example, if you know the 1st-level spell shield and have a 1st-level and a 2nd-level spell slot available, you can cast shield using either slot.
Spells Known of 1st-Level and Higher. You know three 1st-level wizard spells of your choice, two of which you must choose from the evocation or transmutation schools on the wizard spell list. The Spells Known column of the Way of The Enlightened Fist Spellcasting table (See Arcane Trickster spellcasting table) shows when you learn more wizard spells of 1st level or higher. Each of these spells must be an evocation or transmutation spell, and must be of a level for which you have spell slots. For instance, when you reach 7th level in this class, you can learn one new spell of 1st or 2nd level. The spells you learn at 8th, 14th, and 20th level can come from any school of magic. Whenever you gain a level in this class, you can replace one of the wizard spells you know with another spell of your choice from the wizard spell list. The new spell must be of a level for which you have spell slots, and it must be an evocation or transmutation spell, unless youíre replacing the spell you gained at 8th, 14th, or 20th level.
Spellcasting Ability. Wisdom is your spellcasting ability for your wizard spells, since you learn your spells through patience research, meditation, & your insight into the magical energy that suffuses the universe. You use your Wisdom whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Wisdom modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a wizard spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spellcasting Focus. You can use an arcane focus as a spellcasting focus for your wizard spells.

Arcane Disciple
Beginning at 3rd level, you can cast any spell that produces a ranged spell attack as a melee spell attack instead, and you can use your Deflect Missiles class feature against magical ranged attacks that target only you, but you cannot catch magical attacks like you do with ranged weapon attacks. Additionally, when you reach 7th level in this class, you can spend ki points to increase the level of spells that you cast, provided that the spell has an enhanced effect at a higher level, as burning hands does. You must spend ki points equal to the spells level plus 1 additional ki point per spell level increase. The maximum number of ki points you can spend to increase a spells level in this way is 2 ki points at 7th level, 3 ki points at 11th level, 4 ki points at 15th, and 5 ki points at 19th level.

Fist of Energy
At 6th level, whenever you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can treat it as if you used the Attack action for the purposes of your Martial Arts and Flurry of Blows class features. Any unarmed strikes you make for the rest of that turn do damage of the same type as the cantrip you cast. You may also choose to spend 1 ki point before making any attacks, and if an attack hits, it deals an extra 1d6 damage. At 17th level you may cast a spell or a cantrip using this feature.

Enlightenment
At 11th level, you are so attuned to the magic in the world that you can use it to protect and rejuvenate yourself. You have advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects. Additionally, you can use your Deflect Missiles class feature against melee attacks, and if you reduce the damage to 0 you do not catch the melee weapon attack, but instead magically convert the force of the blow into healing for yourself, regaining hit points equal to your Wisdom modifier.

Arcane Fists
Beginning at 17th level, whenever you use your action to cast a spell or a cantrip, you may spend ki points to deliver it with an unarmed strike, resolving both the spell or cantrip effects and the unarmed strike damage at the same time. To cast in this way you must spend 1 ki point for a cantrip, or ki points equal to level of the spell slot expended. If you miss your target or fail to attack by the end of the turn, the spell has no effect and you still expend any spell slot used. If the spell allows multiple attacks or has a duration of concentration, you can deliver subsequent spell attacks using an unarmed strike as well, expending the necessary ki points for each attack. Casting a spell in this way benefits from your Fist of Energy class feature.

Have done quite a bit of changing after some play testing and research in balance compared to other subs, so please have another look to give feedback. Thanks all! Comment away! :smallwink:

DiBastet
2015-02-03, 10:51 AM
I'm adding this one to my list of subclasses the players can choose from!

However there's two things I think needs to be changed: Ritual Casting and Hold Ray.

I think that to keep up with this edition's feel, iconic abilities should be gained at lower levels and higher level ones being just extras, like druid timeless body, land stride or thousand faces.

Ritual Casting: I think ritual casting should go; since neither arcane rogue nor arcane fighter has this ability, I don't think the arcane monk shoduld have it. Besides I think it would be much better to give him something that worked with the monk base abilities. At low level you should give him some iconic ability, something that worked or changed his flurry or martial arts.

My suggestion: You already have such an iconic ability gained at level 6. Remove ritual casting and bring the first part of Fists of Energy as the iconic 3rd level ability. I think that allowing this monk to use Deflect with magical attacks would also fit thematically. "Enlighted Fist: Whenever you use your action to cast a melee spell attack, you can treat it as if you used the Attack action using an unarmed strike for the purposes of your flurry of blows and martial arts class feature. You can also use Deflect Missiles against magical ranged attacks, but you can't catch magical attacks like you do with weapon attacks."

That way first of energy becomes a small utility (adding energy) and upgrade (making flurry elemental).

Hold Ray: The benefit to changing ranged spell to melee spell is minimal this edition, at most the benefit of not having to fire at someone in melee at you with disadvantage; so IMHO this ability fits perfectly with 5e feel.
That said I think the cost is way too high for such benefit.

My suggestion: Reduce the cost to just 1 ki per use, or just make it free. I see no balance issues with that.


In any case I love this piece. Keep up the good work.

Twelvetrees
2015-02-03, 03:31 PM
I'm gonna agree with DiBastet's suggestions. I also think if you're trying to build this similarly to the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster that you may want to limit the spell school choices to two schools instead of four.

Ghost Dragon
2015-02-03, 06:55 PM
I'm adding this one to my list of subclasses the players can choose from!

However there's two things I think needs to be changed: Ritual Casting and Hold Ray.

I think that to keep up with this edition's feel, iconic abilities should be gained at lower levels and higher level ones being just extras, like druid timeless body, land stride or thousand faces.

Ritual Casting: I think ritual casting should go; since neither arcane rogue nor arcane fighter has this ability, I don't think the arcane monk shoduld have it. Besides I think it would be much better to give him something that worked with the monk base abilities. At low level you should give him some iconic ability, something that worked or changed his flurry or martial arts.

My suggestion: You already have such an iconic ability gained at level 6. Remove ritual casting and bring the first part of Fists of Energy as the iconic 3rd level ability. I think that allowing this monk to use Deflect with magical attacks would also fit thematically. "Enlighted Fist: Whenever you use your action to cast a melee spell attack, you can treat it as if you used the Attack action using an unarmed strike for the purposes of your flurry of blows and martial arts class feature. You can also use Deflect Missiles against magical ranged attacks, but you can't catch magical attacks like you do with weapon attacks."

That way first of energy becomes a small utility (adding energy) and upgrade (making flurry elemental).

Hold Ray: The benefit to changing ranged spell to melee spell is minimal this edition, at most the benefit of not having to fire at someone in melee at you with disadvantage; so IMHO this ability fits perfectly with 5e feel.
That said I think the cost is way too high for such benefit.

My suggestion: Reduce the cost to just 1 ki per use, or just make it free. I see no balance issues with that.


In any case I love this piece. Keep up the good work.

Hey there and thanks for the feedback. I agree with both of your suggestions, I actually had already changed Hold Ray to being free before I read your post hehe. I have removed ritual casting, put first part of fists of energy at 3rd and made Deflect Magic part of it too. For 6th I have put the second part of fists of energy and called it Arcane Fists, and changed the mechanics slightly to reflect the actual spell Elemental Weapon and it's progression compared to full casters. As its part of the iconic feature I wanted it to be able to reach it's highest potential by 17th level. Removed poison as a damage type too as it's not really classed as an energy type. Do you think the ki point cost for it is reasonable too? I made some changes there as well, check'em out and see what you think about the ki point cost.
Also, do you think this subclass is to MAD? I didnt think so but someone else mentioned it might be an issue. I have changed the spell casting ability to Wisdom (Check out the fluff for it see if it fits) as I believe this would make the subclass more viable. Cheers :smallsmile:

Ghost Dragon
2015-02-03, 07:04 PM
I'm gonna agree with DiBastet's suggestions. I also think if you're trying to build this similarly to the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster that you may want to limit the spell school choices to two schools instead of four.

Yeh I hear what you're saying, but I think it fits the theme of all those cool Kung Fu magic users to have access to Fly and Alter Self, Blur Disguise self and the like. It allows for the whole Ryu hadoken feel, as well as big trouble in little china's Lo-Pan Old man illusion feel, plus Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon shenanigans, all of which players may want to see thems selves as. Seeing as their spell choices are still limited I think it would allow focus in one area to get a feel a player wants, without it being unbalanced compared to the fighter or rogue.

What do ya think?

Ghost Dragon
2015-02-04, 12:32 AM
Hey check this out for my Way of the Sacred Fist subclass (Work in progress so comments welcome there too).

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?396545-Monk-Archetype-Way-of-the-Sacred-Fist&p=18764881#post18764881

Ghost Dragon
2015-02-04, 05:41 PM
Hey all, was just reading over the old Enlightened Fist PrC and the 3rd level Arcane Fist (I've used the name in the subclass for the level 6 feature but could change that to Elemental Infusion if Arcane Fist can be used else where) feature was to me another iconic ability of the class, but thinking about putting that into my subclass I wasn't sure where it would go progression wise and whether the ability to deliver a melee spell attack with an unarmed strike would make it too OP? Any thoughts on that/ideas on mechanically how it would work?

Ghost Dragon
2015-05-06, 10:31 PM
Hey guys, done a fair bit of changing due to play testing results and what not, have tried to streamline some of the feel and idea's so please have another look and give feedback. Cheers!

Ghost Dragon
2015-07-29, 03:27 AM
I'm gonna agree with DiBastet's suggestions. I also think if you're trying to build this similarly to the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster that you may want to limit the spell school choices to two schools instead of four.

Have made that change you suggested, after playtests and more refinement it makes sense, but made the two schools Evocation and Transmutation.

Also changed the way 6th level feature works slightly and gave it a scale up at 17th level.

I also changed the last feature completely to be more of the whole "Arcane Fists" of 3.5. It is Iconic to me for this class' feel so I'm trying to make it work, be flavourful but balanced (not an easy task haha).

Please have another look and PEACH the new changes.

Kind regards all ;)

Demonic Spoon
2015-07-29, 04:26 PM
Fists of Energy Starting at 6th level, whenever you use your action to cast a cantrip as a melee spell attack, you can treat it as if you used the Attack action for the purposes of your Martial Arts and Flurry of Blows class features. If the cantrip does energy damage of acid, cold, fire, lightning, or thunder, any unarmed strikes you make for the rest of that turn do damage of the same energy. You may spend 1 ki point before making any attacks, and if an attack hits, it deals an extra 1d6 damage. At 17th level you may cast a spell instead of a cantrip, and the extra damage increases to 1d10.


Unless I'm missing something, this literally only works with shocking grasp, as very few cantrips involve melee spell attacks.

Also, pedantry: You do not cast a cantrip as a spell attack, you cast a cantrip which lets you make a spell attack.


Enlightenment
At 11th level, you have so attuned to the magic in the world that it forms an eldritch ward around you. You gain resistance to magic which gives you advantage on saving throws against spells and other magical effects, and resistance to damage from spells.


This feature is double dipping against some spells - spells that inflict damage and require a saving throw - while being useless against other spells (attack-roll-based spells that inflict a condition).

Instead of giving resistance to damage from spells, maybe impose disadvantage on spell attacks?


Also, I worry that, in general, this feature is a little niche. It's very, very powerful against spellcasters, but not useful at all against anything else, and the level 11 feature usually represents a very large power boost for most classes.

Ghost Dragon
2015-07-29, 05:18 PM
Unless I'm missing something, this literally only works with shocking grasp, as very few cantrips involve melee spell attacks.

The 3rd level ability Arcane Disciple has this in it "You can also cast any spell that produces a ranged spell attack as a melee spell attack instead" there by increasing the number of cantrips that can be used. As an aside, due to your comment below I will amend the 3rd level wording to be "you can also cast any cantrip or spell that produces a ranged spell attack as a melee spell attack instead".


Also, pedantry: You do not cast a cantrip as a spell attack, you cast a cantrip which lets you make a spell attack.

Yup makes sense, I will edit.


This feature is double dipping against some spells - spells that inflict damage and require a saving throw - while being useless against other spells (attack-roll-based spells that inflict a condition).

Instead of giving resistance to damage from spells, maybe impose disadvantage on spell attacks?

Good suggestion, but given your comment below I'm not sure what to do with the feature now.


Also, I worry that, in general, this feature is a little niche. It's very, very powerful against spellcasters, but not useful at all against anything else, and the level 11 feature usually represents a very large power boost for most classes.

I was trying to keep the flavour magic orientated, which is why it was versus spells only. Not sure what else I would want out of it at that level that would keep the flavour but be balanced. Suggestions?

Thanks for the feedback too, much appreciated ;)

Ghost Dragon
2015-07-29, 06:11 PM
Also, I worry that, in general, this feature is a little niche. It's very, very powerful against spellcasters, but not useful at all against anything else, and the level 11 feature usually represents a very large power boost for most classes.

So I went back to the PrC and saw the Arcane rejuvenation feature (Healing mechanic) and remembered I always wanted that I there so I Edited the 11th level feature to still have adv on saves but added to have deflect missiles work with melee attacks, but if you reduce the melee damage to 0 you cant grab the weapon but instead regain hit points equal to Wisdom mod. Have a look and let me know what you think.

Also changed 3rd level to limit how much you can enhance a spell by. At 19th level one could increase a 4th level spell to 8th level with only 4 ki points spent, which I didn't catch before. Now the mechanic limits the enhancement of any spell to level 5, which is more balanced I think. Check it out an let me know your thoughts.

Cheers