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Zeophlite
2007-04-05, 10:04 AM
This is not a "2WF sucks" thread :smalltongue:

Hi,
I am extremely confused by 2 weapon usage rules. Mainly I want to know my combat options in battle.

Say I wield 2 short swords, and are a level 13 fighter (BAB +13/+8/+3)
For a standard action or a full round action, what are my attack options.
i.e. would i get 2 +13 attacks (+str mods, etc) for standard action. Or 2 +13/+8/+3 for full.
What penalties do I take and what feats/abilities can i take to better my options
How about only attacking with one of the swords.
How about a short sword and a long sword

The more information about this the better.
I'm guessing this has already been answered somewhere so a link would be nice

Cheers



Edit:
I guess I should give some more info.
I want to build a character that throws daggers (lots of them) and want to see how 2 Weapon Fighting can help out.
Even if 2 Weapon Fighting doesn't seem useful, any information about it would be helpful

I've had a read through this series but not in much detail: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060829a

Jannex
2007-04-05, 10:26 AM
Okay, the basics...

Below, off-hand attacks are highlighted in blue.

You have a BAB of +13.

Standard Action: one attack with your dominant hand, at +13 BAB (plus anything for Strength, Weapon Focus, enhancement bonus, etc.)

Full Attack with one hand: +13/+8/+3 BAB

Full Attack with two weapons, without TWF feats: +9/+5/+4/-1 BAB

(Without the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, if you wield a second weapon in your off hand, you can get one extra attack per round with that weapon. When fighting in this way you suffer a -6 penalty with your regular attack or attacks with your primary hand and a -10 penalty to the attack with your off hand. If your off-hand weapon is light the penalties are reduced by 2 each, to -4 and -8 respectively.)

With the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (you need to have Dex 15):

Standard Action: one attack at +13 BAB

Full Attack: +11/+11/+6/+1 BAB

(TWF feat reduces the penalties for two-weapon fighting by 2 for your dominant hand and by 6 for your off-hand, so to -4/-4, or -2/-2 if the off-hand weapon is a light weapon (which a short sword is)

With Improved TWF feat (you need TWF and Dex 17 to qualify):

Standard Action: one attack at +13 BAB

Full Attack: +11/+11/+6/+6/+1 BAB

(Improved TWF gives you an off-hand attack to match your first iterative attack--the -5 one.)

With Greater TWF feat (you meet the prereq's if you have the other TWF feats and a 19 Dex):

Standard Action: one attack at +13 BAB

Full Attack: +11/+11/+6/+6/+1/+1 BAB

(Greater TWF gives you an off-hand attack to match your second iterative attack-- the -10 one.)

cupkeyk
2007-04-05, 10:27 AM
If you have two short swords and none of the twf feats, you get one attack at +13 with a standard action and three attacks at +13/+8/+3 with a full attack.

With TWF, you get one attack with a standard action at +13 and four attacks with a full attack at +11/+11/+6/+1.

With ITWF, you get one attack with a standard action at +13 and five attacks with a full attack at +11/+11/+6/+6/+1.

With ITWF, you get one attack with a standard action at +13 and six attacks with a full attack at +11/+11/+6/+6/+1.

feats that add to your attacks would be two weapon pounce(two attacks after a charge), the lightning mace(?) weapon style(extra attack for every critical hit), snapkick(extra attack with unarmed strikes on full attack), slashing flurry (extra attack with slashing weapon).

So wielding two kukris(slashing) with the entire twf tree and slashing flurry at level 14 could net you two attacks with a standard action at +9/+4 and +6/+6/+6/+1/+1/-4/-4... laughable for so much effort.

Zherog
2007-04-05, 11:01 AM
If you have two short swords and none of the twf feats, you get one attack at +13 with a standard action and three attacks at +13/+8/+3 with a full attack.

This is incorrect. Anybody can attack with two weapons, even if they don't have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat. All the TWF feat does (as Jannex said) is reduce the penalties.

Kreistor
2007-04-05, 12:22 PM
You have several options...

If you can't Full Attack, you get only one attack with a Standard Action. The rules are scattered for this. You need to read the "Multiple Attack" section (pg. 140) to find where it says extra attacks are only gained on a Full Attack sequence. So, on that round you...

Move and Attack +13 Damage 1D6+Str

On a Full Round Attack, you can to choose to use your off-hand and not use your off-hand. If you do't use your off-hand, you get...

Attack +13/8/3 Damage 1D6+Str

You might use this when the enemy has a high AC and you don't want to take the penalties for TWF. You don't take penalties for just holding that weapon in your off-hand.

If you do use your off-hand, then...

Attack +9/4/-1 Damage 1D6+Str
and Attack +5 Damage 1D6+.5xStr

If you have the Two Weapon Fighting feat...

Attack +11/6/1 Damage 1D6+Str
and Attack +11 Damage 1D6+.5xStr

The order for the attacks is best on-hand, then off-hand then back to on-hand.

If you have the Improved TWF feat

Attack +11/6/1 Damage 1D6+Str
and Attack +11/6 Damage 1D6+.5xStr

The order is on-hand, off-hand, on-hand, off-hand, on-hand.